Frame & Reference Podcast - 219: "Alien: Earth" Cinematographer Bella Gonzales & Camera Operator Andrew Laboy

Episode Date: November 20, 2025

A double feature, extra innings pod! This week we've got a BIG ol' one with Bella Gonzales and Andrew Laboy, Cinematographer and Camera Operator respectively from Alien: Earth. WE had fun, you're gonna have fun too!Enjoy!► ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠F&R Online ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠► ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Support F&R⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠► ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Watch on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Produced by Kenny McMillan► ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ► ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Hello, and welcome to this episode 219 of Frame and Reference. You're about to drop into a conversation between me, Kenny McMillan, and my guests, Bella Gonzalez and Andrew LaBoy, DP and camera operator, respectively, of Alien Earth. Enjoy. I feel I edit I feel like this happened last time when Bella came on the first time it was like a half hour and then we were like we are here for a reason I don't remember what it was yes I told the boy I said this podcast is really like we do like 45 minutes of life talk and then we get into like the yeah yeah so why he's so great because we've done so much life together from just like back to back to back to back shoves that we've been doing. Were you, you didn't even, you hadn't gone to UCSB yet when we did shot caller, right? No.

That's a long career. Yeah, no, we met each other. LaVoy was basically the first industry person I met that like, then became my good industry friend. And I was like a child. Like, I look back sometimes and I go, why did he talk? Like, why did you associate? I was like 17.

I wasn't like 14, but like, you know, became friends. Well, I trained, first of all, personality higher, mostly. You were like, but the thing is, you know, so the story is like, right, her dad's shooting a movie, Daniel Gonzalez shooting a movie. I was the B camera first. And her, Dana works like a lot of single camera. we do two cameras but he does a lot of single camera and so he's like hey my daughter's going to be our camera PA but you like treat her like a camera PA like don't treat her like my daughter

like all right you got it so I did just start my image yeah yeah I brutalized her basically and then but also like as a B camera first you just don't work all the time right especially on a mostly single camera show and so I had a lot of time to be like hey let's clean the truck let's move some stuff around let's this is why you do this this is why you do that and so just a lot of time which i enjoy teaching i've enjoyed it more more over the years um so yeah so that's how we kind of started i guess yeah yeah the i was looking through your uh i mdb and i wanted to off rip ask about this because this board i used to work at red bull this snowboard was given to me by my boss this is one of the boards from art of flight

okay and I know you worked on fourth phase I did to be totally honest I did some some I didn't do any of the snow stuff I'll just be like okay all right so so so what how this happened was I got introduced to Greg Wheeler who's the DP of both our flight and fourth phase we did a Toyota commercial in Alaska together so I had this director I worked for all the time is like hey this guy great we Wheeler's going to shoot this. Of course, we're going to snow. It's all snow. He's a snow guy. I'm like, okay, great. Turns out he's like, same age as me, super chill. We got a lot.

We like just hit it off such good friends instantly. And so then when they were doing four phase, they had to do some interstitial kind of stuff at, I forget the snowboarder's name, like one of the main guys who lives in Jackson Holt. And he's like, hey, what, you come to Jackson and like. we're going to shoot the stuff at at his house but i mean like it was just me and him so i was like lighting and like pulling focus and then you know like we were just kind of doing it we're just hanging out shooting for a couple days so that's how i got that credit um but it's very very

much less than what you might think but i know that they traveled hard and rode hard and party hard. You threw out that. I used to you were talking about Travis. Travis. Yeah, it was Travis's house. That's right. Yeah, because I remember for that shoot from what I heard is that just, well, and they say it in the movie, but there's just, it was an

abysmal season. Like, there was other writers just dropping out because they were like, there's nothing to write, like, there's nothing to do. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it wasn't, it wasn't as easy, easy, quote unquote,

as hard of flight. Yeah. I think our flight, they got blessed with like big snow everywhere they went and like, you know, crazy experience in Japan and all that kind of stuff. And then when fourth phase came, they're like, we're doing it again. And then I don't know. It's still good. Still fun movie. Yeah. It's just like the highest end snowboarding movie, which like I think people forget that that kind of stuff exists. And then every once in a while, like one of them breaks through the zeitgeist a little bit into the bigger world. You're like, oh, they make snowboard. movies still? You just like to make skate movies still, you know? Earth movies. Look a hundred foot wave. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, right. Exactly. Yeah. Bill, have you seen Art of Flight? I haven't. I highly recommend it. All right.

It basically, it was so, you know, I've snowboarded my whole life. Imagine this skateboard movie you've seen. That's what snowboard movies were. It was just people with like a DVX 100, VX 100, VX 1000,

whatever, shooting, people party and, you know, ride. And there was this one group called Eisen 7 or East and 7 from Germany. They were really on the forefront of like good cinematography. But again, it was like one guy bought a jib. Right. You know, that was

and that was insane to us. Oh, yeah. And it was like one guy did it like slow mo at one point. That was unheard of 2003. Come on. So then they make art of flight. And it was like phantom cameras, helicopters, the brand new reds. Like it was, it was, It was not just a generational leap. It was like from the future.

Right. And so just a really inspiring film, especially considering what. Only because imagine how hard to make it. Like I just think about shows I've done where like we're doing super narrative shows, but we're like in Calgary and it's negative 35 degrees. And it's already hard to make, but you're like kind of making up, you know, it's make believe. But then you think about like, okay, now we're going to go on this mountain and shoot

these snowboarders and I think about having to do that and just go oh yeah I mean Greg would tell me like not only was he hauling all the gear and you know you have your avalanche proof backpack and all that stuff but you ask everyone's digging the jumps so like when they're building those jumps like everyone's digging and helping and then you go set up the camera and shoot for four hours while people take runs at it and i mean it you should watch our flight fellas yeah all right so here i go yes less well to his point like it is yeah it's not like we're going to the resort it's like they go find the back country and then they have to build a jump and then also you hit a jump right and it's like 400 feet of run out they're just flying and then you got to get

on a either a helicopter or a snowmobile and you're in way steep snow and then back back up, that takes another half hour or whatever. So it's not like an efficient shooting process. Yeah, that makes me, maybe I'm getting spoiled with, as I go. When you do narrative stuff, you're definitely spoiled. You're like, oh, yeah, yeah. Let's come and rickly a coffee, please. And then it shows up.

It's amazing. No, no. No, the, the, uh, no, I would honestly. looking through your IMD I was like this guy had the career I wish I had you know fourth phase a couple jackass movies like come on he's the man and like a lot of his work like I really need someone like him like for example and we can't like talk a whole lot about this but we just did 10 lasso the new season to lasso and we like shot a game like a live game and I had a commitment I had to go do and I was like you're going to be I was telling the producer I was like I can do this but well boy's going to be better at

this anyways. So we should almost just like let it go to LaBeoy. I think it'd be better. He's like way. So all those skills that he has from all those shows like always transfer over. You know, like someone has offered me some like Netflix live comedy special. I'm like, oh great, I have LaBoy. Like I'll be fine. You know, like I can do my part and he can do his part. And then every time we do a job, a director's like, oh my God, you shot bad trip or you were on jackass. Like I need to know everything about everything so it is pretty fun those are the standouts always no one's like no one's like oh man this but then every once in a while there's like a shot color like a real shot color stand that thing has like a a foot hold it lasted yeah yeah i just see pain

i watch the movie and see tears and pain and crying it's nice that you guys have had such a long career together because I imagine it takes a long time to like find people either find people that you like working with or be able to schedule with each other because I imagine that jobs don't always line up you know no I call him we get into conversations a lot about hard decisions to be made and now we're in the part where like I've also brought him into my father's universe and so now me and my dad fight over a little boy which is quite fun and I'm sure even more fun for him because like at some point he's going to have to

choose. Right. But we you know like I don't remember what was the first job was this in Turian the first time you operated? That you shot and I operated for Dana yeah it was a jury yeah. Yeah so I mean

he did my first feature so we've really been going since my first feature and And I think when you know things work, you know things work. I mean, to the point where we're business partners and I never thought I would have a business partner, you know, because like that's going to trust. Yeah, that's like, honestly, it's like a marriage. Like I trust a boy more than I would have trusted a married partner to have a business with.

And, you know, and there's like a lot of, I have to talk to his, you know, we negotiate because also he has children. And so, like, I have that responsibility of being like, okay, we're going to go do this job for four or five months and then go do your thing for six months and then we'll go do another job. And I try, you know, and then I'm at, and I live in Austin, Texas. So I try to stay busy here. You know, if I can take something here in the interims, I will. Like right now I'm on a show for Apple, but that's shooting here. And it's shooting super close to the house, which is like a total blessing. It's like incredible. that I've been home like last week was our first week and I I put the kids to bed three out of five nights which is like that never happens on you know commercials I don't get to do that so this has been this has been cool but yeah the timings are always like I'm always checking it that's the thing like hey let's talk about what's next month what's three

months what six months look like and we're circling back around on that to you know I'll always old space so I don't you know I don't want to like could he over commit to something else and then uh you know miss out I don't want to miss out it's too much fun working with Bella yeah we have fun I I've had fun just chat with it I did uh before we do get to the ALA stuff I did want to ask this is got entirely a question for my own brain uh Andrew and that is working on need for speed that was mostly C500 was it not This is a total nerd shit. So, Alexa Classic.

Alexa M. Right. Benny, the M for the original, the Rialto. Yep, for the old folks in the room. And then the C-500, C-300, 1DX, and probably some 5Ds and a lot of Gopros. Did you find working with the can-ix? So I have a bunch of Canon. I have a C500 mark two and a 70 and a C100 and all these ones.

And for no reason other than I just was like, oh, that works. And I was wondering if I'm friends, I'm friendly with the Canon people. And so I like asking people who have worked with it. Like, why has that not seen more use on features or TV shows than is it just a brand thing? Is there something about the camera bodies that aren't suitable or the, image or anything like that. It's a great question.

I mean, I think that they have their, like, real loyalists. Like, I remember on, I worked on Grace and Frankie. Right. And our DP was able to switch from Red to Canon between 2020. Gail and them. I interviewed them. Yeah. Yeah.

Amazing crew there. I love Gail so much. And so when you put them side by side, it's sometimes, It's like a no contest. You're like, well, Canada is clearly the winner in this regard. I think that assistants have a lot of sway over some of these things. And they're pretty unforgiving when it comes to like actually building it out for like real everyday full on studio movie making. You know, the cages on New for Speed, the guys were designing them as we were prepping.

We got them on the very last day. We put them together. Some of them didn't fit. We were constantly. We were prepping for the first six weeks of that movie still. Like, it was insane because the stuff was so new. And, you know, I think that there's a certain kind of person who also then when you're shooting, you go, well, if the studio is mandating, we use this camera, then we use this camera. Right.

Right. Or what's going to make the least amount of waves? It's Alexa or Venice, right? Because, oh, I want to shoot anamorphic and the studio says, then I have to use Venice. So I'll just use Venice. And there's like a little bit of marketing. There's a little bit of ergonomics. There's a little bit of technical specs like on the sheet, not in real life, on the sheet.

You know, I don't really have a great answer for it. But it's a weird amalgamation bunch of stuff. I mean, but Sony kind of took that slot. Like think about any of the movies where you used to have a crash game, 100% of the time was canon. In fact, like a lot of the, like I remember a lot of 5D Mark 3. crash cam and then i think sony came out with all those lines of like the fx3 and the fx 30 and all those things which now to compete with the chicken head the canon 4d or what is it i DJ

yeah the 40 but um the ronin 40 but to compete with that like we have for instance we own an fx 30 setup with a ronan four s pro to compete with the chicken head because of the ergonomics because like we had to do this one we literally bought it for one shot there was one shot that i was like i need to do this i need a small body i need to put at the end of a jib and we ended up buying it so i think like honestly that's the role to fill too is like if they make that new camera i think everyone would be all over it because that was the tried and true crash cam or camera you put into a smaller build or something like that so but i haven't seen that in so long too I think that's also

Yeah, I mean, I think that they, you know, one of the things that they did is they went from EF now towards R. Right. And so like that's a big shift for a lot of people. Like if you had EF glass forever, let's say you had E mount glass forever. Now the FX3 comes out and you're like,

oh, all my email glass just transfers to this what is now kind of built out for movie making versus you had a 5D mark four. I think they went to four. And then you're like, cool, the next best body to go up is the R series. Well, now it's a whole new mount. Right. Okay.

So now I'm like, now that's the biology glass. Like, what? I'm not doing that, you know? And so there's a, yeah, it's tricky. And then the autofocus never works as well with the adapters. And they're, you know, it just introduces issues. Yeah. it's a it's wild west i mean the one dx was such a good camera when we were shooting with it then

like so impressive you're basically the equivalent of what ds are now is what it was doing at the time like to shoot 24 frame video it was just taking 24 photos the second like that's fucking crazy you know on a big sensor the the new uh the r5 mark two canon sent me out to arizona of all places to test the r i think it was the r5 mark two and the one R1 something and they can do raw photo

the R1 specifically can do raw photos I think 40 frames per second so if you just hammer down and it's infinite until you fill the the buffer is so good

that until you fill the card it's it just goes that's crazy and yeah it's just like that type of shit I'm like we so you're telling me that red owns the bullet Nikon owns the patent to this, and now we can't, the raw stuff is so.

Because how often do you guys use raw? I try and use it as much as I can't. Usually that's a studio thing, and they always regret it. Like every time I'm going to post and I don't do it, the director's like, why didn't we do this? And I was like, because they didn't want to pay, it's basically paying for storage, which isn't extremely expensive. But when you think about the effects, it's not. like if you have a better file to do VFX run

then the VFX becomes exponentially cheaper and so this is just one of those things where it's a fight you lose with producers all the time I've done it on shows where I just switch mid-show like to OpenGate Airy Rock and no one said anything but you know well like I do you know I shoot it and then I ask the DIT

I'm like how much storage are we going to be okay he'll be like okay yeah sure I'd be like okay great you know we're just going to go for it um but i think it just depends on the studio some studios want the highest thing you can give them and some don't want that and it's just um you know like that's where like any all those requirements drove our camera choices for so long like i worked for apple for three years straight and i had to use the venice which i love i love the venice but i had to use the venice because it was the only camera that fit the requirement with anamorphic

And so then you're just like, then you get into that situation where then like, I feel like weirdly, that kind of stuff impacts the cameras we use, like just the cameras we go to off the bat. So like Sony became this leader in resolution and studio requirement. And when you say the, the anamorphic requirement, you just mean being able to use a tall sensor. Yeah, it's about pixel count, like exact pixel count. So usually you're trying to like stretch the math by saying, oh, my Christ. will be different because it will give me X amount of pixels. But just because you lose your top and bottom, you end up having to answer to somebody

why it would be less than true 4K. Or, you know, for a while, Aries were uprising, which they didn't take to. That's what really gave Sony the foothold was that. Yeah. Which I think it's nice to have the option because for me, it's like I just don't want to shoot large, format all the time.

Really? In fact, I'm, yeah. In fact, I'm like kind of off of it. Why that? I think that every project is its own thing. And I think sometimes you need that large format scale. And sometimes you don't want it to be that kind of movie. Like, we just did a movie in Syracuse.

And we use the Alexa 35 because the directors wanted it to feel like super bad. They wanted it to feel like Scott Pilgrim. They wanted it to feel like all these movies that were shot on 35 mil. So, like, why would I go to the LF? It just, like, didn't really make sense to me. And the lenses I wanted to, I have, like, infinite more lens choice when I go 35 than when I go large format. And I don't think we've quite caught up with the large format in a way that we have

the choices to really make a great decision with large format. It's basically, like, here are the, and there's more now. I mean, I remember when there was like, you know, you had five lenses and you were like, okay, you're going a signature, a Supreme, a K-35 that everyone was using. And then what happens is everything starts to look the same because everyone's using a large format in everyone with the K-35s. And I'm just not interested in that at all. To me, that's boring. And you can ask the little boy, I mean, every show we do, I just like try and fuck it up as much as possible or usually it's calling him and being like, like I have like a crazy idea and then we like work through it and kind of R&D it and I've been

pretty happy even though sometimes I look back and I go you're insane like why what made you think that you're going to do something like that you're going to use lenses no one's used for an entire movie probably for a good reason yeah so I mean I've got a Sony F55 you see what I want to borrow that for your next project you want to go real weird and old i i mean i'm down for all the things that's what we shot up bad grandpa on 55s and f a x3s yeah yeah yeah i honestly i like the f 55 it's it it it i got it for two grand i think it launched at like 45 and um it's you know the menu is the slowest thing i've ever used in my life but kind of other than that like literally you roll the wheel and it goes

and then sometimes it goes the wrong way that's the fun one when you're spinning left and it goes up and then down and then up and you're like make a decision yeah it's like go back to your camera and think look at that camera compared to the C300 yeah they're comparable price points and then when you put them next to each other like

this one looks like a camera and this one looks like a thing that I should hand to a documentary and was going into a trench yeah you know and And that is how things develop the way they develop. Totally. Yeah. With the new,

the Fuji film of Tarna coming out, I've been pretty excited about. I'm going to talk to Sofer about it in a couple weeks. Or in Sofer? Yeah. He shot the, like the demo movie for it. And so Fujifilm was,

I know him personally, but Fujifilm was like, do you want to talk to him about it? And I was like, yeah, sure. So, but that, going back to the raw thing, that was the weird, just the weird part about that camera is there's no audio input. There's no XLR jacks on it. And there's no raw. And they're like, you can do

raw out of the HDMI. And I'm like, out of the HD. What? Like, SDI. What are you talking about? And so, but I hear from like, especially like commercial people and stuff, they're like, we never shoot raw. Commercials aren't looking for that. So I was like, maybe that's where they're, because it's only like a $15,000 camera. So maybe it's not aiming for all of that. I could see that being definitely a thing and I can see you being on commercials having more choice and not having a mandate

and you know I'm so out of that world that I like can't even comment but I think like we have a switch every few years anyways so I feel like it's not out of the question that they make a camera that just like crushes the Sony small series of Sony

and then we go back to that I mean I have friends that like my best friend is a fine art photographer her name's Lauren Withro she's like incredible and she was Nikon till like till she dies and then she just went back to a canon 5D mark three because she had all my favorite images are a 5D mark three and they don't they're not as sharp there's not there's not this like clinical you know feeling to them and so she just like ditched her nicon system went back so i also think there's like a little bit of

nostalgia and people not wanting things to look as perfect to be honest which i understand I definitely think that's on the upswing, that feeling. You look at what's going on in like print media right now and everything. It's like back to film grain, back to mistakes, back to the accidents. I write for this website called Pro Video Coalition and it's all intended to be educational and then and a little entertaining. But I was at a party and one of my girlfriend's coworkers was like, hey, I want to buy. just like a film camera because you know they're younger that she's probably like 26 or something and she's like I want to buy a film camera and I was like I don't know if you do I and this was like

four or five years ago so I was like I think I know what you're looking for I'll write you an email I'll list some ideas and it ended up turning into an article because I realized that the kids and this is huge now and you're seeing it as you're saying in advertising now but they don't want film they don't know how to describe what they want they just know it happened when film happened and that is on camera flash. Yeah. And, but that article ended up being my most read article of all time.

And it was the second most read article on the website in 20 years. That's literally just like, here's a film camera option. Here's a point shoot option. Here's a digital option. You know, and then with some like eBay links. Yeah.

I mean, it's really helpful, you know, because I mean, every friend I have comes to me to buy cameras. And I'm always like, well, we have to start before that.

And it's like, what are you looking for and what, you know, like one of our directors from our last movie wants to go by a camera. And I'm like, we have to all sit down. You have to look at all my cameras. You have to put them all on your hand. I'm looking up at my wall. Yeah. I know. Mine are over here. I'm like, and LaBoy and I are crazy. I mean, in Thailand, I bought all the cameras, like all these cameras in Thailand. And then LaBoy matched me. And I got him one for his birthday. And then he bought another one that I bought for himself. And so we have like, you know, We're just twins.

I really like my favorite right now. I mean, I always tarry before this guy, the, you know. Yeah, the X100B. I was able to, Fujifilm sent me this because I wrote an article that they really liked. And I mentioned in the article that I wanted one of the like, here you go. Like, oh, thanks. Way to do it. But I really like the typical stuff.

Eric, I want an Alexa 35. Yeah, me too. Extremely. You passed me in Alexa 35. That'd be cool. Um, but they, uh, you know, I'm friends with, I, I interviewed, uh, Chase Hagan. He's the, uh, tech. I'll put, I'll, I'll get you in touch. Yeah. Yeah. No, not really. Not really, but a lot of DPs I've interviewed recently all have Ronans, the 4Ds. Yeah. We, we, we have the traditional stuff. Yeah. We have a Ronan two and a Black Arm and a Raptor.

and that's like the raptor yeah i mean it worked we did wow five or five jobs with the raptor most of alien alien was the raptor um and we just got a black arm and we got a new head titan l t way are you talking about red v raptor or something else no sorry no it's a stabilize arm like the black yeah flows any black arm and then yeah there's a company called custom easy out of I don't know where they're out of. They make ZXR. I'm not at that level of stabilization in my career. I thought you met the V-Raptor.

I was like, that's a good camera. It's the first red I've ever been like, that's, you nailed it. Good for, good. Look, our whole thing, and it's been my whole thing for a long time, and I've kind of pushed it on Bella, is that like the cameras are such a massive buy-in. Right.

And they change so frequently, and we constantly are running into new mandates why we can't use one over the other. Now, if we were a commercial team and we just ran commercials nonstop, it would make sense that let's go buy an Alexa 35, let's buy an LF, let's buy Venice 2. And then we'll just, we force it on every commercial because we can match the discount, we can travel wherever we want, this or that and the other. That's what a lot of commercial guys do. Right. right? We don't do that. We do narrative and a movie and then we did an Apple show and then we did an thing for Hulu and then it's like you just don't always have the choice. So if you go in for 100K on a system and then you have to leave it behind when you go to Thailand for six

months, you're going to cry about that. Yeah. Time, you know. Orces your decision in a way I don't like. Like I have a man, I shouldn't say it this way. I don't understand DPs at all lenses And it's only because I find that when you own lenses You choose to shoot on your lenses all the time Because why wouldn't you? Because you're making money and they're yours And you know them and you know they're solid.

But for me like every job needs to have its own sauce And that sauce starts with camera body lenses And then the most important part for me is filtration. So I, you know, and also we have such a good relationship with Keslo that like for us, our money is better spent on the camera support side where we want these tools. So when we go do a $6 million to $15 million movie, no one's going to tell us we can't have the thing we need. It's like we own it and we'll bring it. And it makes the movie better for it. Well, and that's so smart, too, now that you, I feel like I've felt this in my head, but

spelling it out like that, like, it does make total sense because I'm sure you're in the same camp, like all cameras, it's more of a workflow issue than an image issue. So whatever, rent, whatever works for the system, for the situation. And then you're right with lenses, even if you're not getting a rental fee, I think maybe the fear is that you are hired for a look. Yes. And so you're like, these are my, these are my make sure I get hired again thing. But the number one thing, like whenever I'm working is always, hey, they're like, let's get a cheap gimbal.

And I'm like, what about 500 bucks for a dolly? And they're like, too expensive, too big. Annoying ass gimbal that only you are going to be using with no tech. And I'm like, sweet. I'd rather own the thing that makes me happy and then just be like, I got it, it's whatever. You know, that makes total sense. Yeah. I think that's where our whole system came out of is like, we did a show with the Raptor and the Ronan.

And then we bought it immediately after the show from the key grip because we were like, the whole show was, was we had this amazing dolly grip named Trick Pear. And he was full sprint running with the with the dolly. And that was like every shot in the show. And we did all 10 episodes, Neandle boy. And so like I think after that we realized because, you know, I'm not. I'm not partial to SETICAM is also the big element of this. So I need a tool that can emulate the things SETICAM can do, but do it in a more studio fashion, which is how LaBoi and I came up anyways, very traditional, very much about good blocking

and good camera position. And so that's where our strengths lie, where I feel like SETICAM is more like you're building something to make it right where we're like we're going to just set it up right the first time and have it kind of work in this way which is why I need someone like him because for me too it's like you know I have my thoughts I talk to the director a little boy talks to the director we look at the blocking we tweak it for what works best for both of us and then I leave him in the hands of crafting the shot and I go white which is really like the system now that I enjoy um and so I think him having all the tools at his disposal is like really

important for crafting the right shot with the right tool which is what we're about like when we do something wrong we beat ourselves up for like five days why did we do that no if not longer if not longer if not yours I still think about shit I did in elementary school so yeah you guys we like it though we enjoy it it's fun We spend so much time traveling together that also, like, we have to reminisce over all the stupid shit we've done. Right. And some of it, very cool. Like, some of the stupid shit we've done, I'm like, that's super awesome.

I love that, you know. And I think it's what makes me think the way that we do in terms of going into future projects. Well, it's like, yeah. When you do something stupid and that it works out, you're like, we should keep trying to. stupid stuff. Right. Or, you know, it's even like cooking, like, I don't know if you guys cook at home a lot, but like, when you're just making something, you know, you've only got a few things. So you just start making shit up and then it tastes good. You're like, all right, I don't, I didn't measure anything. But maybe if I spend like an hour just kind of figuring out what the

exact situation was, you know, you fuck it up. And then you refine it to where it's the exact same thing, but it's repeatable. Yes. And you have to do those things to learn. And I think our thing is like, we're not scared to do it to learn, even if it's for something substantial. Yeah. Because I think we understand that risk taking is the best way to great results. Yeah. Which is also what I like about us is we like, you know, there's definitely an accountability sense that we have with each other, probably more him than me, but also me to him, which is

like when we set up rules and like things we want to do for the show, we're like really trying to keep ourselves accountable on what we've set up and that it's like a through line throughout the entire project that we're doing. And I think I need that because, you know, sometimes it's like you're in a rush. Directors are in a rush. They just want to do things the wrong way. And you have to be, you have to stop and say, no, we're going to do this. I mean, even like our first movie, we were like, no overs.

It's only clean singles, only overs when they're connected. which they almost never are and that's a hard role to make where you're like, okay, cool, no overs. A director will like fall into that really quickly and you'll have to like, no, we've set that rule and we're going to stick to it. That ties together a few things

that I was thinking while you're talking there which is one, one, I've said it, I just said it to Dan earlier. Something that's always stuck with me was two things that happened to David Fincher speaking to aliens, which was one, on the game special features he was talking about it's about what you don't do to your point about like we're not going to be doing overs or whatever and then two to your point about

directors wanting to go faster it's someone you know rushing you or whatever how much shit he got for Alien 3 and then changing his whole career path to basically like if I'm going to be held to account for this I'm going to make it right the way I you know I'm not I'm going to be yelled at for a choice I made, not for a position I was put it. And don't we know about that? Yeah, that's our life. Yeah. I did

transition to Alien. I know you didn't shoot the first episode, but overall, the look is perfect. The first episode specifically,

shout out to whoever shot that. My father. classic fucking classic never mind we won't talk about that no it looked exactly like the first movie yeah and so I was wondering what were the

conversations that led to achieving that look did you deviate it all throughout the series I know someone had mentioned filtration recipes like maybe changing around or something because it is you know how much post are you leaning on to get because you know certain things

I've seen like people do like halation that just looks horrible and you guys like nailed it it's great and the grain looks perfect you know there's all this talk to me about creating that look and how you were able to lean on post and in the camera to get there um I think there was heavy talk about what the show is going to look like for sure I think we definitely talked about the first three movies but also after the first movie, it was more specifics about two and three and what we liked about them and what we were going to take and move forward. And also, I think, like, we knew there was going to be a little bit of deviation, but always

in respect to the mood, tone, and atmosphere of the first one. And that was, like, the most important part. But I think that, you know, when it comes to iconic imagery, like mother or, like, the kitchen where they're all sitting. It's like those things are people know them. And the best skill you can perform is nostalgia through the way of looking at an image and being like, that looks like the time that they shot it in the 70s. And so they had put like a very good blueprint of what the show is going to be like when they shot one. La Boy was there earlier than me.

They did like a first run. And then we kind of went down during the strike. And so luckily it was like the blueprint was kind of put. in front of us, but there were less rules than Fargo. It was more about being in the world and looking at the way that they structure shots, the lensing, which is very different than Fargo. And then obviously, like, the lighting is very important, not only because of mood and tone, but because you're lighting a dude in a suit.

And you're trying to make it scary. And, you know, this is a horror movie. Or, you know, it was a horror movie. So, like, trying to imbue it with, like, tension and through the camera work and the lighting. Um, but once they did one, it was like, I feel like everyone on board kind of understood the assignment. And then everything from then on went from the story that Noah was writing. Like, I feel like we were just making, it almost like spoke to us about how it wanted to be made after they did one. And when you read the scripts, you understand what the,

vision was and so then we just had to like come in and execute you know yeah for that first episode uh even down to like the way the camera pivots around the table they're like the movement it's it i literally was like did they through like my brain just started firing of like is this CG like did they just crop the character like what are we doing here can you uh Andrew can you walk me through like what the planning was for all that like did you just have the film right next to you and go like a little more okay good you know i wish it was that simple uh so i what i will praise this properly so like what's important to dana gonzalez is that you've studied the material yeah he often uses like uh playing jazz and

analogy, but you can play jazz and you can riff, but you have to know the sheet music, right, first. And so, you know, what you end up doing, and I mean, Alien is, this movie is my favorite horror movie, period, full stop. You know, so it's something I've seen dozens of times, but when you go in to a, like, creation process, like a thinking about creation, you have to go, okay, why does the camera move the way it does and at what pacing? And so then you're like, now you're watching a movie for a different reason. You're watching it as like a study and trying to take that and then bring it to the set. And like, you know, Ross, Kasha, who was a camera for a lot of the time that I was there.

You know, he switched off with Mitch Dubin and I did a lot of B, but then when we did second unit, we did I did A. when I was B I did a ton of longer lens stuff and so you end up doing those kind of you know meticulous pan from one character to the other and that kind of like those things that you see in the in the kitchen scene sequence right and so you're watching the old movie and going like oh that's a timing and a tempo to set the pace and tone and so you like that's the sheet music that you come in with so then if you can bring something to the table for that and go like okay we're up here and then we're going to look down to this thing and it's the timing you know you don't do this right unless it's like wow there's something jumping at you but the right the the pace of the thing is you know it's it's all there in the old in the original movie so you just have to take that and kind of embody it yeah you know it's something that I think about to earlier when you were talking about like people want to go back there's like a nostalgia for stuff and one thing that I think about is like a lot of times people are frustrated with modern tools because they're not giving them what they want from their idea of things that they loved in the past and it's like no they make them easier you're just not using them the way like Igelboro shooting the holdovers is my prime example he was like we shot Alexa we had LEDs it was no different it's just they the methodology behind shooting with the limits

that they had in the 70s make it look that way. Yeah. Not the tools. Yeah. Yeah, I think one of my favorite quotes from Dana is don't underestimate a pan. Yeah. I mean, sure. You know, it's like everybody wants to like do this thing where you're like

compound in two directions and you're spiraling. It's like just pan. It's pretty simple film. I mean, if you look at it, if you really watch it the way that we watch the movie, the show is the same way. The show is very simple, but that's what makes it so special is I think that now we're in a time of like, I don't use the word gimmick, but we're in the time of gimmicks and theatrics

where some of these movies that you love are really just a dolly in, a pan, a boom up and down. Like they're really simple and it's not about that as much as showcasing what's happening and frame and so I think like weirdly if you were to study our show you'd realize that it's quite simple and then no one will come in and do what we do on fargo which is like okay now we're going to do this like shot where we go down the hallway and then it goes to a magnet mount and then you're tilting down and then zeno drops in near the camera and like so you have those moments too but I think for this like back to basics was my kind of core element and also lighting like these masters of cinema

who weren't afraid to use hard light and that's like a big thing for Alien is like I feel like hard lights kind of gone away in a new generation. People are kind of scared of it where we're like that's the starting point for me in this show is like where's the hard light coming from

where's the soft light coming from because those are the elements of classic filmmaking that you know when you think like Godfather you're not thinking about the soft light. You're thinking about that hard shadow and what that makes you feel. So I think, like, in a weird way to go back to the films that we love, we have to, like, strip ourselves down a little bit and, like, go back to basics and talk about

what makes a shot effective, what it means, and nothing more. You know, sometimes it's like that holding back is the key to making a great image. I feel like often if you have the... money, you have too many tools in a way, right? And so, you know, in the 70s, those tools just didn't exist. Yeah. And now, even though we have all the tools, you have to still go like, okay, well, just because we have this thing, it's like, well, how do you use it? Yeah. Is it going to allow us to just be more efficient, but do the same kind of thing? Great. I think that, like, that's kind of like the way we think about filmmaking, especially Bella and I, you know, it's about like product, but

there's an efficiency, at least in my head, I'm always trying to be efficient and going, well, if we can do this, this way, that lets us get another shot today, or that lets us get the directors more takes or that kind of thing where we, you know, we don't want to be surprised. Yeah, we're, we like are about the story and not about self-indulgence. And I think that's where our main commonality is. We want the directors to have the time with the actors. We want the performances to be great because that's what makes a good movie. not like great imagery.

You can't fix a bad movie with great imagery. And so we're like not self-indulgent like that, which is why we try and do it right the first time because we just don't want to take any time away. And also like for us, the more story we get to tell, the better. So we rather like work our way through it in the right way, but the efficient way.

And, you know, like set an end point to it. I think it's really important for a DP's like that question I get asked that question a lot like when do you know that you're done and I'm like well how much time do we have where are we on our day when the 80s shoots me with an arrow yeah you know like I but I'm consciously like I think that's why I need LaVoy because I need to be talking to at first 80 about like how we're going to structure our day in order to make some movie or make the show and get everything we need to tell the story yeah I think the yen and yang that we have working of her being like the you know obviously lighting and then the managerial side of it whereas like when we're shooting on the day dude I'm hands in on set with the set dressers and the electricians and the gaffer you know like I'm helping tweak and helping move things and you know like Bella's in the back cooking right and I'm running things around front of the house you know i uh i think about this a lot which is to your point about like going back and and doing the old school way kind of i think it a lot of it has to do with probably the main

problem we have in the world and that is money right yeah not not having it but wanting yeah so you get like a new tool you're like oh you know what i saw in this one really hybrid like high end commercial that they had like a spinning whatever, you know, rig. We need that for our movie. Like, why? And they're like, because we need it, because we need to sell the idea

that we have the spinning thing because that's what people, and it's like, you know, people go to movies to watch the movie, right? Not to sell your new, whatever, like, idea, like. But I see it everywhere, not just in film, but just everywhere.

People going like, all right, yeah, we're going to use the film, the content to sell an idea. of competency. And it's like, no, you sell competency by making a competent film. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's tough.

I mean, I was thinking about this earlier today because I was listening to some other thing, I don't know, but there's just so much stuff. There's so much stuff now, right? Like, we used to get 100 movies a year, maybe, right? And I'm sure there was tons of B stuff that came out on VHS and all that. but in the theater you got that many and there was three channels right there was three channels on TV and that's it now there's 250 channels and 25 screaming services plus theatrical plus YouTube plus TikTok plus everything else right and and you just are it's so overwhelming so like if you

don't have a story to hitch the wagon too about this tool that we use to do the whole thing and It's never been done like this. It is hard to stand out. So I get it. I get the marketing side of it. Adolescence. Yeah. Adolescence uses dual practice.

You said it. I didn't want to. Yeah. It's great, too. Like, it's great. Yeah. It's good filmmaking. I don't know if I'm that person.

You know, like, I don't know if I'm that DP. But for, I mean, I, he fucking crush it. Matthew is his name, right? I interviewed him and he's like just a young guy. Like he might as well just come straight out of film school. He's like, yeah, we just started kind of filming. I'm like, how do you, what do you mean you just started? And he's very smart.

Like I read, I read an article about how like that third episode, all the light is constantly changing. The values are constantly changing. It's on a different board. And as the camera's moving, the lights are constantly adjusting and shifting to time of day. Like very smart decisions that are things that I feel like. are things that appeal to me like those things appeal to me

like those decisions I think the decisions you don't see as much are the ones that really appeal to me because they're effective and you don't see them and that for me is like sometimes we just did a movie where it was the most crazy thing

that we've ever done and it was very much like fingerprints on the lens we want you to see the imagery because it's a movie that's a movie you know what I mean for lack of for without ruining it it's a sledgehammer or a shotgun yeah it's not a a there's no silence around this movie there's no silence but generally like my rule is like i don't want

you to feel the things i'm doing i just want you to feel the effect of them right um and for you to like watch a show and not know that there are more than one dp that's like really my my biggest thing is like, I want you to watch the entire show and go, oh, my God, that was amazing. That person's amazing. And then you go and watch it. And then there's like 3D piece, three or 40 piece. And you're like, wow, somehow they stayed utterly consistent and it felt like one show. Because that's the beauty of a movie for me.

You have that one voice or the voices of the team that are coming together. So, and I think Alien does that. Like, I think it's very much consistent in its own being. I think one is. far the closest to the movie, but that's what it needed to be in order to draw everyone in and get that nostalgia. And then it becomes kind of its own form and different storytelling, different worlds. Um, well, that, like, you know, you get to go back and do the chess burser and you're like, well, this is classic alien filmmaking. Well, and also, I mean, I agree.

Well, one is my favorite alien. I also love three. I know it's, Rare, but also slight tangent. One of my favorite movies, and I will not apologize for this, is The Chronicles of Riddick. And I know that, Belle, you probably haven't seen it. No. Yeah. But I guess. Hell yeah, dog.

That's how old I. So I, Chronicles of Riddick apparently was written by the same guy who wrote Alien 3, and basically the script changed so much for 3 that he went and made Riddick. Riddick was basically what three was supposed to be. Oh, that's crazy. With the prison planet and the whole thing. And then it kind of got warped into Alien 3. And then obviously there was all kinds of meddling happening. Yeah.

But it took him like another 10 years to finally make Riddick and be like, well, that was kind of the thing I meant to do the first time, except instead of an alien, it's been diesel. And it's fun. It's a good, it's fun. Yeah. Yeah, it's like a, what is it? It's a surgery. I shined. Yeah.

There's a surgery to remove these irises or something so we can see in the dark. Crazy shit. It's awesome. It's very 2003 also. I love that. I'm trying to go back. You see, that's a thing. Okay, so we danced around it, but I didn't want to know because I want to steal.

How do we mechanically achieve the look of alien? Obviously, the lighting of alien or the film, whatever. Obviously, the lighting is part of it. You mentioned hard and soft light and mixing. I was actually just talking to last thing about this. But obviously the texture, you know, the filtration, I know you used the, the, was Venice and V, the Hawk. No, it's the Alexa 35.

And then the V, it's like all the V series, animorphics, meaning like the V lights as the base. But then there was also the original V series, like the big honkin hawk lenses. which we've used a couple times on other things as well and those are more like specialty like definitely you know specific moments but then like we got locked on like the 65 mill V light was like

that was the lens so that happens too but you know a lot of this is Tompull that Hallation that like film it color I mean I like to think making the show I saw that as we were making it I think we used

Black promis I don't know what they were I don't the thing with my dad's shows is the filtration is very well hidden and guarded for a bit and they always change and honestly this show I feel like

was the least filtration out of any show that we've done like Fargo is like a stack of three all the time bare minimum where this was more about the sets and lighting the sets and the quality of the light and then we always needed that they were going to

do a post grain and a post-holation and I couldn't agree with more with you like that halation to me is perfect. Like especially when it's on the creatures like I think about the facehugger getting cut when they're like dissecting the facehugger and every shine on the facehugger's body

because if they're like loomed up as hell are like blooming in this way that really reminds me of film. But also like I know that my friends are now, and I didn't know anything about this, and maybe I'm crazy, but they use that thing called Film Box, and they're like, that same kind of access. Yeah, so I just, I'm in the middle of writing an article about this, but there's Genesis, which was, what's Joe Bongonovich's

dad's name, Mike, Mike Bogdanovich, and Steve Yedlin, and then this YouTube guy, a colorist named Cullen Telly. I imagine Cullen did the advertising but between Steve and Mitch I don't know the backstory, they wouldn't email me back. But at least between the two of them, you got some solid film emulation knowledge. And so you got Genesis and it's thesis.

Yeah. Yeah. I get to interview them next month. Yeah. I've been chasing him for five years. Submit your questions. So but then there's film box, which I think is.

the far more Genesis turns your sensor into film it's phenomenal but film box is able to sort of evoke the idea it's still just as professional but it's a very minuscule difference

and then there's you know your deanser which yeah grain and the grain is on that's pretty good but yeah all these all these post tools are becoming really pixel tools has another film emulation thing they're all becoming really interesting

and being able to mix and match between them you know this one's got better halation this one's got better grain this one's got better color I think you should have to set it up right yeah you know what I mean like halation needs hard light so when people are are shooting something and they like don't get that like you know I the classic one is you shoot outside and there's a street lamp and the street lamp is like blooming like crazy because you have a source in the frame like a hard source in the frame so like I think that's the thing is it's all about the setup and you can really I mean posts and people can get so go to post and achieve such great things

that I think what you should be looking for if you're trying to emulate the look is like what did they feed the camera in order to have the footage to make something that looks like that. And that's why I think that's why I started talking about hard light because to me that's the most important thing. And obviously it's the hard light, the filter,

the way the hard light filters through that filter. And then what the camera interprets later or post interprets later as a halation and how far you can push that. Right. Well, and the thing that I always took, I think the kids love halation because of sinistil. Absolutely.

But sinistill because the anti-halation backing is gone. It's on everything. It's everywhere, right? And that's not what it looks like. I've always described it as halation is the speed limit of film. So the only thing that should be getting a halation edge should be stuff that has broken clipping yeah right so don't put it on like a slight you see it like obviously this is youtube for the most part but like people's skin will start to halate and shit and you're like no

that's not stop that yeah but that's what val is saying right you're setting it up wrong right you're forcing it onto something where it doesn't belong right right um going back to the the lighting thing though obviously all of these sets are expertly crowd i mean the production design in the show was fucking phenomenal. Incredible. Obviously, a lot of, obviously mother is a classic example of light being built into the set.

But the lighting built into the set is everywhere. What were you doing with those sets? When you were shooting, are you like turning lights on and off to get, you know, the contrast ratios you want? What are you bringing in? Are you bringing anything in? You know, what was kind of,

obviously, where are you putting that hard light? Because I imagine a lot of tubes and stuff that's naturally going to be kind of soft and built into the set. What was the approach there? I know you also got a lot of outdoor shit on your episode. So I'm kind of... Yeah, but you know, the fun thing that we did,

and I probably should touch on this, it's like I was there, after the hiatus, I came and I did the whole show. So we did simultaneous units the entire time. So as they were shooting main unit, we were also shooting a scene work. And then we would, so like every day would be different. Some days we would come in and we do five days of second unit,

or we would do three days of actual. like scene work that would go in the episode and so I was lucky to like have kind of shot across the season and got to do like a lot of things like I was in those labs a lot like a lot especially that secure lab but I so I had to do a lot of lighting and I think everyone has a different approach and it really depends on what the shot is because there were certain shots where the camera's moving so much that you are having to mainly go off of the set and everything is there. I mean, someone asked me really innocently, they were like, what was your lighting package? And I was like, uh, there were like thousands of lights, you know,

but, um, but it's like sky panels and orbiters, really, which I haven't seen in a while that are built into the set, all the floors. Those are coming back. Not, not the R.A. orbiter, but the motion would or you mean, these were the, these are the areo. Oh, I don't see those anywhere. No, but all those hallways that you see with the heart. light streaks those are all the orbiters okay and then we had different lights for lighting the scenes so like we use the like I love these aperture CS15s they're now like my new obsession which is basically a nanlux to be honest um they're all really decent you put different lenses and stuff on them but I think I probably lit more than like the other DPs meaning

like I probably brought more sources into the room um I think uh having like studied a lot of their stuff. But it was a lot of light mats, a lot of light mats with something a lot of people don't talk about, which kind of shocks me because we have it all the time, which is snow blanket. Like a thick-ass diffusion? Yeah, it's like the stuff that's, you know, I don't like when someone sets up like a Santa's workshop little like iconography thing and there, it's like on fake snow. It's like a tough spun, but thicker? Yeah. And we put that directly on light mats. right here. Yeah, like, it's my secret sauce, even though I feel like a lot of people I know use it.

But every time I go to a new city, it's like when I asked for it, it's like, oh, my God, where are we going to get this thing? But, you know, Alien was shot in Thailand and we did English system, which means that the gaffer lights and shapes and the key grip is camera support. So it's a little bit different than the American system. So, like, having a light mat with snow on it and an LCD is a lot different than in America where you'd put a light and then a four-by or eight-by diffusion and then you'd box it in. You know, so we had more lights on the ground, but they were pretty small profile. You know, but the thing with a lot of those creatures, which I shot a lot of the creature stuff, you need a lot of light.

You need, like, it's all about reflections, right, in, like, all the lube. So you need sources everywhere in order to, like, ping those little things that then the halation is going to work later. But I would say mainly on the sets were light mats, some vortexes or sky panels, whatever was around, and then those aperture, CS15s, that would be like my main source of heart light because I could, you know, change the lens and have it be like a, you know, they have like a leco adapter or whatever you need for an L adapter. So I think we did bring a good amount, depending on the camera movement. But a lot of rigged lights, a lot of, like, that's the thing is for us, moving the camera

is about most importance. And so is the lighting, but they have to work in tandem. It's not, and that's, like, a big thing with us is, like, we're working together. Sometimes I'm like, get my light out of your frame, but most of the time, it's not that. Right. You know, it's trying to give the operators the space to do the shop that tells the story. but I think it's a lot the lighting is a lot simpler than other people would realize for me lighting is all about levels and quality because you can change everything else later the color temperature everything else is infinitely changeable except the quality on people's skin and the direction it's coming from so I think as long as you get that you're like in a good zoom so you can make up an example but like what are you looking for you know, are you, again, you'll have to make up an example because the answer is inevitably

going to be, it depends. But, um, you know, you've got your, you've got talent. You're mixing soft and hard light. What specific levels are you looking for on the talent in comparison to the background? Like what are your ratios? Specifically an alien. Let's not get too, but, totally. I think it's actually an easier question because alien, I treated alien like I treat everything else like I would treat a comedy even which is I'd like my backgrounds to have mood and tone and my actors for you to be able to see what they're performing so usually what that means is like I'll set the background in a way that I think the scenes atmosphere wants it to be so like very dark secure lab floors are kind of lit like what's the vibe someone's about to die

let's go like under light let's make it a little spooky or scary but then it's like it's Sydney Chandler and she's uh you know a she's like half sin you know so it's like she's almost kind of perfect a lot of the time so you know then you're setting up like a key and a back edge and like making sure she has separation um and really like lighting her it's a lot less I used to light really globally like the world and the actors will work within it and now I'm kind of not about that. I'm like light the world and then light the actors. And so usually like what that means for me is she'll walk from one light into another light.

And what that allows me is the opportunity to build tension in a scene. Like it's not just she's lit the whole time that way. It's like, well, what about this front light now becomes a weird kind of three quarters like sited light. And now her face is kind of dark, but she's got this like edge. you know, and she screams and falls and, you know, collapses. So I think I'm lucky enough to have all those lights built into a set, you know, but like really my prep comes from what the world looks like because the blocking informs everything about how I light the scene in terms of the actors.

Like that's every decision I make is after the blocking. I can just set myself up properly. but I really think we should allow them to inform what the scene is like. Because how do you know? You just don't know. You read something and how people interpret it is very different. And we had such talented actors where they would bring something completely new to a scene. Maybe it's funny.

You know, you didn't think it would be funny. But now you're like trying to light it so that they can travel the space and really work it. Like Boy Kay is really like that. You know, he's going to travel around and give you a show. And so how are you going to be prepared for that, you know? Yeah, the, you got to give it up to the people. I almost said the kids. They're not kids.

Those are adults. The people who play the kids. Yeah. Did a phenomenal job playing kids. Yeah. It's that it's like amazing to me. I mean, that's, I think just being like a true fan of the show, a true fan of the IP and a true fan of the show where like for me, how do you not get inspired by that?

How do you not get inspired by the fact of when I saw Alien? and I was a kid, scared the shit out of me. And then now we're making the show through the lens of children. And so what does that look like in terms of the visual language? You know, like how scary is that? I think with a lot of the creature stuff for me, it's like, what is the perspective from someone that's like 10 that's seeing this creature? And that's how like my decisions were made.

But that's because I have that unique perspective of like being like 10 years old and seeing Lizino for the first time or seeing a chest bursure. And it doesn't, it wasn't that hard for me because they're so talented to like tap into that perspective. Um, but that's always what we're trying to do.

Like every job is like, who's seen is it? What do they feel? Is it, are we with them or are we away from them? Are we voyeuristic? Are we wide lens and like really close to them? Um, and then like what's, you know, how does the camera movement reflect that? Um,

really subjective, I would say that like just that, that world is. And so we're a little boy and I because we come from that world. Like every decision is like based off of that character in the scene. Um, and what it must feel like in that position, you know. Yeah. You know, it's, it's funny. I saw, I saw the first movie later at life. It's probably in college. But I, but a couple years ago, I saw it in theaters. They did a re-release and something that hadn't occurred to me. Because I, like, I'd never really watched. I never watched the film and thought of it necessarily. Like, it wasn't horrifying to me.

It was like, it was scary, but not like, it was cool. You know, it's cool. So I go to see it in theaters. And the thing that I noticed that I think is the one thing that does the first movie a disservice under a modern lens is the mono soundtrack.

Because there's at the time, no sound just changed. Very spooky. Very spooky. In a theater, modern, surround sound. It sounds like, sounds off. Like, it's not scary. It's, it's, it's like, you, you feel the absence of spooky. And I was like, oh, this is a fascinating feeling. I got sleepy. That's great. I just saw it at the cemetery. Oh, nice. Nespia. And it was, like, incredible. Like, the ground was shaking.

Whatever sub-warfers they have there are going to shake the dead out of the ground. It was the best way to watch it. Like, you're like, you know, a, Sigourney Weaver came on before and was like, basically scared the shit out of us. It was like, look above you, like, you're so open and vulnerable. Nice. No one's going to hear you scream. And then you're like in the cemetery and aliens playing. And it's like that low treble the whole time.

Yeah. Where you're like your stomach feels it. Yeah. I think, and that's what this for me is like the sound on this show is incredible. Like, unbelievable. The mixing and also that's the. the score choice, the music, like the needle drops at the end of every episode. I enjoyed the needle drops.

It's pretty cool. It's the modern. That's what I mean, though. It's like a question people ask me all the time is like, well, you know, you did Fargo with Noah. Like, why do you think Noah translates into this universe so much? And I'm like, it's, there's not a more perfect person to make this show with someone who understands deep character and conflict.

and corruption and also like understands the modern time and like what is entertaining to people because alien if not anything else is entertainment doesn't take itself too seriously right and so I think he understood that assignment of like we do not take ourselves too seriously we are going to do these needle drops at the end of every episode um and that's why I just think like that team is incredible Jeff Russo is incredible he did the score um and like I just it gives the vibe of Alien as well. Like every department really kind of understood what we were doing. So I think, you know, maybe hopefully now you get to watch it with your nice surround sound system in your house and like be engulfed by all the, you think I've gotten more jobs than I have in the past.

I have a sound bar. Oh, it's fine. The first time I watched the episode, I had friends over and my speakers weren't connected. Like half of them were connected. and we were watching it. And I was like, is this crazy? And he connected my speakers and I was like, oh, it's a different experience. Yeah.

Oh, fantastic. When I was six, in the theater here in Austin, it was sick. It sounded so good. Yeah. I mean, it looked incredible awesome, but it sounded so good. Well, and to your point about modernization, like, certainly there's, there's a world in which it could have been like, oh, we're going to make this feel like the 70s. and feel like to remove any modernization,

to try to holdovers it a little bit. Yeah. And I think that with the needle drops and with, you know, slightly more modern filmmaking techniques and obviously sound as we were talking about, yeah, does create a show that is,

at least in my opinion, you tell me if I'm way off base, but I found it to be more sort of suspense than poorer. And also I found it a wonderful refresh to make the, main character's the sense because the aliens don't give a shit. Alien spooky because alien wants to kill people. If not people, what does alien do? And I think that's a fascinating thing to analyze. Right. Especially having played the game. I don't know if you played the game, but the game is

very spooky. No. Oh, dude. I think it's like tension, right? Like suspense, tension is in weird ways the same as some horror. I think for me the horror is like at the end of season one, you have like this group of kids that essentially are like, we rule. We're going to take out.

And what does that look like? And now you understand these creatures and the fact that they can do some serious damage. And their creatures you haven't even seen the whole capability of. Like these have been creatures that are in a cage. So what's that going to look like when

they're not in a cage um just like the kids the kids are in a cage the kids are on an island you know so um i think and also for me the like horror of it all is actually just like the base greed and corruption that everyone else is enforcing um and like lack lack of humanity that to me is the horror and I think Noah there's always subliminal horror with Noah which is what I like so much it's you know I think like but imagine being a kid you know and watching that like La Boy's son draws all of the creatures I get like oh no shit oh and they're amazing like my dad loves them but I get drawings of all the creatures he's fascinated right so But also he's too young to probably watch the show because it would scare the shit out of him.

He's watched about like 10 minutes here, 10 minutes there. I tried to find some sweet spots where he can tune in and I don't have to like wake up to him screaming in the middle of the night. But he's pretty, I mean, he's going to be seven next month. He's seen Jaws already. He can handle some stuff. Did you guys know that the eyeball thing was going to be your guys's baby Yoda? Everyone loves the eyeball. I love it.

It was a puppet on a stick. We loved that thing. And we loved it. And there's a video that I posted on Instagram like the other day of there's like Image like is it like POV and it's like La Boy in our first AD's hands and they're like hugging and like the image is in the front. And I think I knew like I was like I have to shoot this because this is going to be insane. I can't wait for Halloween because I can't wait to see all the.

I know there's going to be so many I image costumes. Yeah. Oh, dude. That's actually, bro. I'm so bad. I love dressing up for Halloween and I'm always like the last second guy I should just figure out a way

to get my eyeball to look crazy and that's it that's all I need I don't need a costume I'm putting literally coveralls on and saying I'm like in the Nistramo that's so smart that's so fucking smart that's what I'm doing too I never got my shirt you never got my shirt

we got we got crew shirts with them from the manager no I know I know I don't have to play. I don't I'm sure. I don't know. But I almost went to Comic-Con.

I almost like cosplay at Comic-Con for my own show. And then I decided that that would be wild. And so I didn't do it. You should have done it. I did like the one, there was a girl who was dressed as a sheep with the I-Mage at New York Comic-Con. It was pretty incredible. There was a lot of alien. cosplay and not i mean like the biggest thing is we're a part of like film history now right and

that is a really crazy thing to think about and we did it successfully in a way that people understood it and liked it and so to like walk around and see all this stuff is like kind of blows my mind and um i don't know if i quite like fully understood what we've done but we had so much fun and we're so proud of it that um it'll sink in one day when i'm right once you get all your crew merch yeah once I get all my merch challenge coins and shit yeah you know

merch it's insane if you get extras I send you a shirt what size are you yeah I've got like so much stuff March my buddy uh where I mentioned him a lot I try not to mention it too much

because it's like he's one of my the person who works in the who I'm most jealous of than him and his wife work at legacy effects and so they get all the coolest shit like it's just oh and it's I've given up asking him if he worked on a project

because obviously he can't advertise what he's making when he makes it right so a movie will come out I go so for instance fallout right I didn't ask him if he worked on it I just said is that salamander real and within two seconds I get a photo behind the scenes of them testing the salamander with the guy in the rig get pulled out.

I'm like, this guy's got the best. He made Baby Yoda. I think he did the ears. But, you know, whatever. They make all that shit. Yeah. Weta did work on Romulus too, but I think they were. Yeah, they did facehook.

It's interesting because they don't do everything. Like Weta did our Zeno. They did our facehuggers, but they didn't do our eggs. Yeah, that was second scheme. Yeah. Interesting. So. It takes a lot of people.

Like, and then like there's Maro's arm, which, was like our props department. That thing was so good. Yeah. So we, I mean, there's a photo that's floating around. I think LeBoi posted it of like,

it's a crew photo from the last day. It's not even the entire crew. And the photographer had to take it from the perms. And it, like, we are just like floating ants in that photo. Um, the show took so many people to make.

It is something I want to know about, which is like you, you walk on to that. that set, how long does it take for you to calibrate to, like, shoot it versus just going, you know? Do you want to talk about yours? Mine is insane. I mean, yeah, I mean, I just, you just never really get over it.

Like, one of the first things we did when I showed up, because I came after the strike, was the collapsed, like, stairwell. Yeah. That's on fire. It's like the first time the Zeno, like, jumps out. The guy jumped up. crept opening and like we did the shot of the zito like landing and then going after him and i'm like all right like you can fire me now like i that was it's incredible right the first week you just

shoot this thing that you're like you grew up watching and you like yeah then it's there and then you film it and it's bonkers and then so that's the first week the very last week we did the chestburster and it's the same feeling it never goes away you're like super geeking out out and even turned next to the producer and he's sitting there watching over my shoulder like this is awesome he's like this is awesome like yeah I flew in 30 hours they took me straight to set I watched the first movie twice on the plane and then two and three I might have even watched the first one three times and then I showed up to because like we said you have the bare minimum is you must be a student and you must study

and so I showed up on a set and they took me straight to the ship which our ship was almost entirely connected meaning you could walk from the bridge to the kitchen to the container with the eggs

cargo is the carnival and then like all the labs so you can walk through the entire ship essentially and I started walking through the ship I'm jet-lacked I feel like I'm high. I'm hallucinating. I just watched all the movies for probably far too many times in a short span.

And I thought I was like, I thought I was dead. I mean, I'm just like, it was the craziest thing that I've ever seen. And yeah, like LaVoy said, I mean, I was like, we were shooting a chest buster and I was like throwing up in a trash stand, but also like, I have to shoot this. There's no, I cannot leave right now. So I'm like throwing up and then like going back and. but everything, I think, like the new creatures, how can you not geek out of a creature that never existed

that you're seeing for the first time? And like, for me, like, I established one of the creatures and it was like the proudest moment of my life because I was like, I, you know, you're telling, you're saying something by how you're lighting this creature. And so I think you just never stop. And then watching it even after you're like, the boy and I would like browse through, I get files.

and we'd be browsing and they'd like, oh my God, so cool, it's so awesome. It's like a fever dream. You're like, dude, we shot that. And then you go back and watch you go, holy shit, we shot. Remember when we did that? That's crazy. You know, like the shot of a, there's the one of like the Zeno in the cage and it's banging its head against the window.

Like I, you know, I did that shot that day. And you remember doing it? You're like, this is awesome. I hope it's a shot. I hope it makes it in the show because not everything makes it. You know? And then you see it in the episode, you're like, yeah, that's cool. It's easy to be proud of work on a show like that because you also put everything into it, like everything, everyone that was there did. Like, we were dropping like flies because it's just like the weather and also just like the demands on you and the pressure, which there was a lot of.

Sure. And internal pressure, right? Like you don't want to be part of the reason that something doesn't work. that fucked up alien? Yeah, big time, big time, big time. But also you're just like a kid in the candy store and also everyone loved each other and everyone was like a family and we really all had the same goal, which is just to like do it justice and tell a great story and, you know, make it cinematic and make it feel

like you're watching the movie for the first time. Yeah. No, I certainly felt that way. I love this. I think I DM'd you after the second episode. Yeah. Where I was like, I want to talk about it. This is good.

It's good stuff. We would talk like every, what are you coming down on Wednesdays? I would like call on Thursday. I'm like another successful episode. Remember that thing? It worked. It all worked. You would remind me that we shot stuff.

I'd be like, what? We did that? I don't even. We just did so much. that like um and also we were like ninja on a unit that like I just also like sometimes I was with you and sometimes I wasn't because you need steady or something like that and so like yeah it's like looking back on it's pretty hard to remember like like I know I was there but were you there or was that I should like that's crazy we do like three units all the time I think um like

we had a DP that just a drone named Sam and he was like incredible all that stuff is real. All that drone work. I mean, yes, it's VFX enhanced with buildings and stuff, but all of that drone work that is incredible is real. And so we just had like, I don't know, there was like six DPs, you know, with all of us included that we're all working all the time and in real labor of love. Like, especially for, you know, I take really great pride in like having to shoot things for other DPs episodes and making it feel like they would want it to feel. And even though it's you know like that's a big part of that universe is it's a team sport more than any other family a film that I can describe to you it's like you're just there to make a good

show it's not about and you have pride in the show and not pride in your work specifically is like really huge I mean we have so many operators like you know Mitch Dubin yeah he did one and five and he's incredible and then you also have incredible operating from completely the different operators of like a different generation who came in and have to match that skill level, which is insane. Plus our local operators who were, they were awesome, you know, like you're coming and just rose to that level with us. Like, yeah.

And we asked a lot of them. It was hard. It was hard. Yeah. How do you maintain visual consistency between that many people? Communication. Yeah. Are you like taking still?

and like being like do that or like lighting plans or like how are you you know dills i mean i was really lucky where like if i was shooting um something from their episode that's second unit like luckily i'd have all the footage and i'd kind of be able to like this is a skill i've really acquired from doing so much second unit work and reshoots and pickups and coming in and filling a spot, which was like the first half of my career, that like I can look at an image and see how they did it. And it doesn't have to be lit the exact same way I know how to make it look like that. But then also like, yeah, there's scenes that I had to shoot that were like full scene work in people's episode. So like just talking to them and being like, what's the feel? What's the mood

and tone? What were you going for? But usually our world, like a lot of those DPs would be like just, you know, you're going to be there. I trust you. I feel it. out but also it's it's on that element of like we're all making the same show and we were all there for each other and it wasn't competitive like I think the greatest joy of my life was when DPs on this show would come up to be like how'd you uh how'd you like that lab and and then I'd do like oh my you want to know how I lit the lab like this is crazy like I totally look up to you and then weirdly they would save all the looks so sometimes you know someone would start on a look that you did and then change it a little bit or you would start in a look that someone else did and you

would change it a little bit um i say you mean like in the dimmer board yeah everything's saved every setup is saved so like with there's like somebody taking notes and photos at all times so color temps are saved gels are like everything god for them yeah we have to we were going back like last week of the show we were doing stuff for the pilot our last shot remember was the our last shot yeah is in a episode yeah yeah that's so you're just like kind of you know you're so immersed um that you hope that you're just doing the right thing by the show but also we were all like going out to we you know there's a 120 international crew right something like that um we're all in the same hotel same two hotels next to each other so like you're going to drinks with people after you shoot

and you're talking about it and they're watching your dailies they have screens up their unit of what you're doing. And so I think just like a lot of communication, but also in this camp, if you don't do it right the first time, you do it again. That's very much how we work. We work till it's right. There's more pickups and reshoots and all that than the normal ecosystem of a shoot, but it's to get it right. And like, you know, sometimes it's for whatever reason or they redesign a set that's happened before. Like they just redesigned a set for a later episode and we have to come back and reshoot the scene. And then you're matching the scene like kind of exactly even that you're shooting again. So, but I think like a cohesive vision

and also just really rewatching a lot of dailies. You have to watch the work of everybody to study everyone's work to make it feel like you're on the same thing, which is like a joy of my life. So it's my perfect job. But you know, get to go hang out with people on their shit on their sets while they're shooting that's fun yeah that's a bummer that's not like anything we ever wanted to do when we wanted to start being in film just hang out on set and not have to work um you mentioned color time real quick i did want to ask this is dumb ass like film student 101 shit but like when you're shooting sci-fi are you what color temperature is white for us yeah usually it was like 4100 42 under kelvin

And then the camera's at 32. Oh, well, that's, the camera's set to 41. Okay, yeah. And then, I mean, you kind of play around with it. No, the great thing about that show is you're not locked into anything. It's not like we had a rule where like this lab is this given color temperature at any time. It's more about feeling and story, you know, but sometimes we go to like 2,800 Kelvin when you want to make something warm or you have like Broco, which is like the, you know, like the. you know like the are those good yeah we like those all right i've seen i've started to see them pop up

a lot i've never used to like the bros like the sparks oh this is now the second time i thought there's a there's a lighting modifier so instead of using like a whatever a six by silk this guy made some call i guess it's called broca not broco but it's like a colored diffusion which is still like spectrally accurate but it's just supposed to not make stuff look like just white it's supposed to give it some like skin tone and blue and green in there. I think but like that's it's kind of the same concept where like you're injecting color into things based on what else isn't framed. So like when you have broke like things to shift and I think also it's like a cooler

tone show sometimes and then sometimes it's very warm and I think you're just trying to track what you're doing. But I think the camera for the most part inside was like 41, 4200 Kelvin, which just starts to shift everything because I think most people it's like you're 5600 outside and I don't know 3200 inside I feel like we're I'm never on those I'm never on anything normal like our whole movie we just shot was completely 3,800 Kelvin because of consistency because then my Gaffer knew that we were always at 3,800 Kelvin so all the lights were the same color temperature all the time where Alien was more like a like a thought it's

experiment, like, well, what does this look like now? Like, if someone is, you know, when one of the kids gets injured, the world is cooler. When someone has power, the world's a little warmer. And I think that, like, overall, the color of the show is pretty similar, like, the tones that we were shooting. I don't think it was huge, huge shifts in that. I think it was only to make things more filmic and have, like, that roll off. And, well, and if you're shooting in the middle of the general exposure to, I imagine, like, it's not, it does let you see, like, obviously, the difference is your warm source and a cooler source in their respect, but also it does kind of centralize everything in a way. Yeah, there's definitely color separation is what I would

say. There's mixed temperatures everywhere, which is also like a big thing for me is mixed temperature. Mix temperature is like hard lighting for me. It's like, that's like the sign of the next level of a DP is when they're mixing other tons to make other colors seem a certain way or to put importance on something like we do this like warm green grunge color with zeno with like the acid and everything and so it's like that's kind of like a specific tone you want to feel and a texture um so i think you just kind of also like find what people have been doing with that and then like setting the rule for yourself of like oh this has kind of been traditionally cool so now we're in like a completely different shift of view or perspective or power imbalance

and then you're like, I'm going to do the other thing to signal to the audience. Yeah. Well, this happened last time where I'm like, it's been two hours. We should probably, I could, I could still, we'll just have, you live in L.A., right? We'll just have to hang out. Now I live in L.A., in fact, you finally. Oh, perfect. Wait, where were you during, before?

I just was like, I haven't stopped traveling for work for. No, I mean, the last time we spoke, the last interview where you were. I was probably in Atlanta. Oh, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I worked in Atlanta for like a really long time. And then I've been in the really random spots this year, like Connecticut, Syracuse, Missouri, you know. Yeah.

It's funny. You got the luggage just. I know. I did a panel the other day and they were like, wow, this really tells a lot about you, the space. I was like, well, outside is very. The mirror hasn't been hung. Yeah, good job on it. Yeah, I'm in flux at any given point.

I'm going to say something about it, but, you know, that's you. I know. I did want to ask, though, before we go, for Andrew, as a DP, how can I make your job better? How do DPs work with you that makes it a better experience for you, want to come back? Like, how does, how do you, in what ways can I be a better teammate to you? Such a great question. Such a good question. I mean, to me, the best relationship.

that I can have with the DP is when they they are non-concerned with the frame right like letting me kind of work with the director if they're a frame intense director like a framing and blocking director letting me just cook with them

and then they focus on the lighting and if there's like obviously something wrong or to see something that I don't see they come but that lets me have like the most creative freedom and that that's like to me like the ultimate experience right where like I get to do all the all the things that I love to do with the camera and none of the things I don't like to do which is like essentially um you know so so to me like that's the best like um if when

I'm getting like mid mid shot course corrections in my ear is that's like kind of amongst the worst things but yeah we try not to do that we wear cars all the time but we try and make it like a fun experience and not sometimes it's most time most of the time i mean i'm crazy i know that no i know it's not i mean like i got the i got the note um god i don't even know what she to say this i got the note uh yes it was yesterday more feet room not more headroom more feet room it's like oh okay or just go it's different go why very particular and it's fine

I mean it's like oh okay I'll tilt up I'll tilt down a little bit like but you just I just again what you're saying though there's like there's a specificity to certain things like does that is there an artistic reason for this or is this just you being not pedantic

but like that's abilities yeah everybody's different and then you know that's one of the things about being a camera operators you have to be able to roll with that like hey this got this person like going to tell me exactly where to put the camera and he's going to tell me to tilt down one degree or tilt up one degree or like pan left to hold the tree or pan right to keep the fence out like whatever it's going to be they're going to like really put me in the spot and that's fine um it's just not as fun you know what i mean for me personally um i'd rather have an experience where i get to be a little

more like free form like you know come up with something or help come up with something and and uh and do it that way. But, you know, it's not bad or wrong. It's just different. Yeah. Well, I feel like anyone who gets into this, no matter what position you're in, you do it because you're creative and creativity in its essence is problem solving and obviously expressing yourself in such a way.

But even like I think people who don't look, don't understand the industry might think that like grips are just plumbers. It's like, but even plumbers get to be creative in their own way, you know, to have that taken from you like obviously it's not fun yeah yeah I mean and it's fine to just be you know the guy who pants of tilts like that's my that's what my career is you know like it's just fine um but there is like there is so much more there can be so much more to it so the further you get to go and the deeper the more creative you get to be like obviously the more rewarding it is that I mean he preps with us like if we were prepping on a weekend he's there and like there

are jobs where like on on alien fargo directors telling you where the camera's going it's just that kind of thing but then we've done movies too where the directors are way more actor heavy and so like i'll map out our day in terms of like what the scene is looking like and what shots we need to make the you know and discuss it with the directors and then i'll give that to a little boy but it doesn't say like we're on the 35 middle on the dolly it just says there's a push in and wrap around here and this and this and this and this and then like he has the map and then he does what he does with it like then my job is done i've figured out what the scene looks like and what we need and then you know we'll talk about whatever we're going to talk about but like he's making the

decisions on the tools and we come up with the lens after the first like two days we have our lensing done like then we never talk about lenses again it's like he knows what i like he knows my preferences. He knows why I'd go to a longer lens or a wider lens. And then then we start to build. Then like maybe day six will be like, wow, we actually really love this lens. This should be our main lens. And then it's like a conversation and a lot of we talk after the days, talk about what really worked, talk about what could have worked better. And just like, then it's another. Like you should hire collaborators because you trust them. That's the big. That's what it comes down to. It comes down to trust and like, you know, you don't want someone to do this thing because the union says you can't do it.

It's like you want someone to do this thing because you want to collaborate with them to like to make a better product. You know what I mean? Like for me, when the few times that I have DP, things like, I don't want to operate, man. It's too much to think about. Yeah. You know, Bella, you feel the same way. Like, you drives you crazy. So like, I can't imagine.

And, but for me, yeah, it's, it's that collaboration. And then the things that come from that are so much better. You know what I mean in a way? And you have some pride in what you do. Well, when you, when you like, and this applies to literally anything, not just film, but it's like the more you have to think about, the more each thing suffers, right? You've only got 100% of your mental energy. And 100% of it is set on lighting.

Your lighting probably is going to be good. But if 20% of it's operating, 20% of its management, 20% of it's, you know, crafty, I don't know. Then you only get 20%. You don't make a show like Alien by operating and shooting. You just tell. The reason that show is the way it is is because I'm constantly looking at the lighting, constantly. You know, I get involved with camera. Trust me, I'll throw a boy a this or a.

this or whatever but we don't even talk anymore it's like if i have to deliver a note he knows the note there is no notes don't have to be given the only notes all come in and say is if i have an idea um like just grab the camera and fucking shake it or you know like something strange like that and then um or just something that like i bugs me on my end like i don't like that position because i don't like how they end up looking in the light and let's just shift it a little bit this way and that will work great. So it's it. And that's just it. Like sometimes we'll walk into a set and I'm going, okay, you're lighting from this side. So like, boom, I know that the lights here, coverage is here. We'll turn around and do this next. And then it's just like which

side you want to start on. Yeah. That's the only question I have. After that, you know, especially for like week two, week three of a project. It's like we're off and running. There's very little discussion that has to happen about like the basics of man like you know the basics then you're getting into the file oh hey this custom filter or maybe it's this thing or should we like try to do get weird you know how weird do we want to get yeah which the answer is always as weird as physically possible or yeah just so weird that I'm like did we what what were we thinking and it always works. Nice. But like that's what we talked about last time is like learning to work with an operator is the most valuable thing on the face of the planet. And it's really hard because it's

all about communication and communicating your vision. And I understand that that's like a skill. But I think that you have to practice it. Even if it's with your friends, just like learning how to say what you want, say your preferences, and also work with somebody and see what they're bringing to the table and make that a part of your process. So, like, that's, I, you know me, that's like, I literally brought LaVoy on because there was a comment on your podcast being like on the last one we did being like, I really like how she talked about how she works for a camera operator. Oh, wow. It'll be, you know, this will be like really cool and informative. And I hope that more DPs, even at every level, like start to think about shooting like that because it will only make it better.

That's what I tell all the kids here in Austin that, too. There's like a ton of super talented young people in this town that are shooting and some are shooting film and doing all this crazy cool stuff. And I'm like, just use an operator. There's tons of people in this town that want to do that too. And some that do that full time and are just hanging out in between bigger projects, right? Like, just put us on. Just call us.

We'll come out and do it and take some of that load off you. Maybe we'll bring a little something to the table. you might not like the experience, then you still learn something. You know what I mean? And I think that those things are just as important when you like, man, that was a disaster. You learned so much more from failing.

Oh, yeah. You know? No, you know, these past couple docs I've been working on, I'm getting hired because I'm, you know, I have a lot of gear and I'm able to do a lot of things at once. And again, you make me do sound, If one of the mic packs happens to be muted, that's on me. I mean, that's not on me.

Like, fuck, you know. But, but, but, uh, so that's my specialty right now. But the one, the, uh, shot this commercial a few, uh, years ago, like, I guess last or something like that with my friend Jake Bain, who is, um, probably a better DP than me, honestly. And, uh, but he was my camera operator. And it was so nice to have, again, probably a better D.B than me be. Because I still got to do what I needed to do for the, um,

it was a clothing commercial so that you know like they were the client was more like involved than average but he would like I'd be so stressed for like producing and directing and shooting this dumb thing that every once in a while he'd come tap me on the shoulder and be like shouldn't we do that and be like yes thank you think that is Jake is correct let's do that yeah you need that as a DP there's so much that rides on you all the time and you are no matter if you're producing or not you are producing constant if you're a good DP you're constantly thinking about what is going to go wrong, what you need to do, what you need to double check on, what's next. You constantly need to be talking to creative or directors or producers or whatever

that is. So you need someone to run the set and to help you. Like you deserve that. And I'm all about collaboration and help. Like I am not, I tell producers all the time. If I went away, you could still make the show. If they went away, you're shut down. Like, you know what I mean? And so that's what I truly believe. And I think that, like, I think it's just good to, like, send a message or just, like, when you can. I don't know everyone can't. But also, like, if you're a DP, go operate for your friends.

Go, like, learn how to operate by being the operator and talking to your friends and seeing what works in communication and what doesn't work. Like, for me, if I'm on a set with someone better than me, much more than I am looking at their lighting, I'm looking about how they talk to people and how they get their vision across and what I really like and what maybe I like that I do and constantly trying to be a better DP by being a better communicator and a better manager as well as a better artist, you know, for sure. Yeah, the people who like, I think there's, I think there's less ego in this industry than historically there was, and I'm guessing because I obviously wasn't there back

then, but there are still big egos of people who are like, No, my, my method of shooting is the correct way. Yeah. And I'm like, well, I love learning what your opinion is because that's probably, it's clearly works. But I love being a little more. For them. Yeah. I like having a little more options.

Yeah. But you like to know so that you can figure out what you are. Yeah. Right. Like I change all the time. Like I bet you if you listen to a podcast me for like four years ago, I'm not at all this. I bet you I told you all the opposite things I say now. Yeah.

You know, it's just like you shape shift for sure. Trust me, I've got at this point, probably 500 some odd hours of me yapping. Right. When I was when I was uploading all the episodes to the new YouTube channel, I was like, oh, I should see what I was. And I got like 10 minutes into like the first 20 episodes, not like each one. But, you know, I just click one. And I'd be like, oh, fuck.

No, no, no. Yeah. I'll probably. I should new. It's beautiful, though. It's going back and watching your old short for it, short films or something. you know it's like I can't do yeah it was it but at least that's pretend like yeah it's just your actual opinions like yeah you sound like a fucking idiot Ken

good job um all right oh sorry go ahead oh no no go for it uh no but to all that like you have to be water right you have to be able to change to the script change the story change to the tone to the people. Yeah. Right. So a good D.P. Or a good operator can fill in and like the thing that drives me the most crazy is when people like, they shoot comedy. What does that mean?

Right. Like they can't shoot horror because they only shot comedy or because they only shot horror. They can't shoot a love story or something. It's like that's ludicrous, right? a good DP, just like a good technician, should be able to be able to, you know, tell a story on any kind of story. Yeah, truly.

Well, and if you look at some of the best DPs out there, and usually they're older, so they have like enough time to have been able to pull it off. But there will be someone who shot like, you know, some, you know, when Harry met Sally or whatever, and then the next one was alien, you know, whatever. You see that a lot. I was taught, oh, what was it?

Fernando Larry Shear Yeah Larry Shear's like the perfect example Hangover to Joker pipeline No but he did a he did a A run of high level comedies there In the 2000s you know He was that guy

He was that guy Yeah And he got locked in that And then it took You know A turn for him But with a director that was doing comedy as well So

Or you know Again just because I was talking of an hour before I talked to you guys. Dan Lausden, you shoot all Garumo del Toro shit, and then they're like, you know what? Get that guy on the color purple. Yes. You know? Yeah.

I mean, I'm really grateful for my career in that way, because I have like a very strange career where like I've shot Penn 15 and then I did, you know, Farrow an alien. And then I just shot like a very straight comedy. And then I did a horror. And so I feel really lucky that like I am. like a chameleon in that way and I love it and also it changes the things I want to make like I got to tell you I think I'm like comedy high concept comedy is kind of a place to be for a DP truly and I know that if people don't want to do that's great I'll do the work instead I'll take it yeah but like yeah

trying to be I don't know do what you want and do and like hope that it leads you to cool places That's all you can ask for. So just don't pigeon will yourself. When I was in school, people were like, I don't. I only do drama. And you're like, okay, cool. You see how that works out. Like being an operator, I mean, like, I only dolly in.

Yeah. I never dolly out. You're like, no. We don't pay. We don't pay out here. Yeah, those kids are the ones who are like, freshman year of college. They're like, yes, my favorite film was Citizen Kane.

Shut up. Yes. It was the Matrix and you know it. Oh, girl? Yeah. So, you know, entertaining shit. Why, why wouldn't you want to make that? Yeah. If you were, if you were a 17 year old and your favorite film was the godfather, I don't trust you. What, like, what do you mean? It's probably right. Yeah. Like you were a kid. Like my dad, it's your dad. Well, that's different. But if you, if you, if you were like, oh, yeah, you know what? Um, 16 years old, I was really, I was really drawn to the decalogue. It's like, bro, I think, think you need to listen to music or something like get what you're going to grow up to be

scary they are scary yeah anyway it's 15 and 2 that yeah the matrix 100% it was like 15 when that came out yeah for me it was uh the matrix men in black willie wonka in the chocolate factory and also one a movie that i'm trying to get everyone to watch the phantom with billy zane oh I want it for you Okay See you know I mean and Andrew I've seen it I've seen it

I remember when I was a kid it was the the cartoon was on Right as a kid But I don't know if I've ever seen the full Billy Zay The movie is it's just camp Indiana Jones Intentionally That's cool Yeah and the key here is it's intentionally camp

Like you can't get movies Right like I just watched back to back. This is a great double feature. I watched Black Dynamite and Elvira. Yeah. That's great. You watch. Elvira is perfect camp. Yes. Obviously. Yeah. That's Mount Rushmore camp.

You just you tripped us up because Billy Zame was in her first movie that she shot. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. We had our, we had our, um, we did our time with Billy Zane. Yeah, we did. We got. I, uh, I don't know him as a person. I just know he's in the phantom. And we don't like him in Titanic. And he's also in Titanic. Yeah. And he's not a good guy. All right.

It's been two hours. I'm going to let you go. But obviously, like I said, stay in touch. And then Bella will have to grab a drink or something here soon. Yeah. Let's do it. All right. Thanks so much.

Oh, great. Pleasure and a privilege. Yeah. Take care. Bye. Bye. Bye. Frame and reference is an Albot production produced and edited by me, Kenny McMillan.

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