Frame & Reference Podcast - 221: "Okay" Cinematographer Oren Soffer

Episode Date: December 4, 2025

Oren Soffer returns! Oren recently shot a short film on the new Fujifilm ETERNA 55, which gave him the opportunity to swing by and chat about the camera, the short, and a bunch more stuff we tend to chat about when we get together. Rantcast 2026!Enjoy!► ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠F&R Online ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠► ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Support F&R⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠► ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Watch on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Produced by Kenny McMillan► ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ► ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Hello, and welcome to this episode 221 of Frame and Reference. You're about to drop into a conversation between me, Kenny McMillan, and my guest, Orange Sofer, here to talk about the Fujifix GFX, Eternah, and a whole lot more. Enjoy. I wouldn't, I mean, I don't know who I saw there, but were you at the GFX 100, like, touch and try thing at the ASC, like five years ago or whatever it was? No. Because I remember that's where they, they were basically walking it around and going like, this is it. And they were taking these meetings with everyone.

And like every single DP. Like, they weren't like secret meetings. but they were just having conversations. And every single DP there was like, I want this sensor in X100 body and I want it in a cinema body. And then all the like Japanese dudes are just kind of quietly nod. And then like when the when the GFX RF or whatever came out, I was like, well, that that has to mean that there's a part two to this equation.

Yeah, I've been in those meetings before with, you know, for other camera manufacturers and for Fuji film. And it actually is really funny. That exact reaction where they're like, oh, we have a lot of work to do. Like, okay, this is what they want. You don't want this. Okay. Yeah, we just spent all this time and effort making this camera. And you're like, no.

Yeah. You're like, but what about this? No. We want something. We want something different. Okay. Five years later, here it is. Yeah.

And then you show that. and then everyone complains about it online. But, bro, yeah, I, I announced that, so I obviously as part of the press was given like advanced knowledge of the, I mean, knowledge in advance of, yes, turn it coming out. And so I was one of the people who posted an article right when the NDA kicked. And the feedback on Reddit seemed to be roughly what I felt, but there is like, with any camera, people, I feel like people just complain, like they think they're engineers or something. They could have easily done this. And you're like, do you know that? Like,

how do you? And I'm not talking about the Eternos specifically. I just mean like the amount of people, oh, you know, Sony had this in the F55. Why couldn't they put it in the FX6? And you're like, I don't, I don't know, but different systems, you know, like, because they, because they, because they couldn't because there's a usually they couldn't yeah there's a reason i mean yeah like go ask the engineers they're really smart and they probably tried yeah this is okay we're already ranting this is a thing this is this is this is this is a problem with the internet in general because i mean it's really social media but yeah it's like everybody everybody everybody's an expert on everything in their head right

So it's like everyone just, everyone just has, has an opinion about everything when, you know, sometimes you should just learn. You should just listen and learn and internalize information and maybe, maybe just go out and try something and experience it for yourself. There was one thing that I saw recently. This is just broadly, you know, this is like about any topic, not cameras, cinematography, movies, anything. There was one that I saw recently that I thought was really funny.

It was like some interview with Ben Cutchins talking about the cinematography of the White Lotus season three. And he was describing some technique that he uses for key lighting or something. And then the top comment on Facebook clip of the video or something is somebody saying, well, that sounds like terrible advice. And then someone responds to him like, okay, have you shot an Emmy Award winning TV show? Because when you have, maybe then you can comment on whether or not this is terrible advice. Like, are you an Emmy award winning cinematographer? Well, as maybe sit down.

Yeah. Well, and also to kind of in that same vein. The amount of people who will have opinions when in reality their opinion is based on taste and not on facts, like where they'll say, oh, this was shot terribly. And it's like, no, you just didn't like it. There's a difference. Totally. And you can not like things.

This is the other thing. You cannot like things. It's okay to not like things. And it's okay if somebody else likes something that you don't like. I know this is a revolutionary idea. But, you know, there was one. there was this girl on TikTok and she made like a little cute

little like 10 second music video thing with lyrics and stuff basic she had a Nerf gun she shoots the Nerf gun and the camera tracks the bullet and it has the lyrics on it and then it sticks to a window it was kind of cool and all of the comments

someone was like how can I do this and all of the comments were talking about how it was probably shot with a 360 camera how there would need to be some VFX work. There's no possible way this was shot practically. It's obviously, and I'm quoting, like, obviously a VFX comp, like, or not a comp, but a VFX move. It's super complicated. And I was like, guys, we need to stop. Just because technology exists doesn't mean that's what it is. Like, you have to understand this girl is on TikTok shooting with her cell phone. What is more likely

that she went into Maya to do this? Or what happened was she had her husband put the, dart on a chopstick and just right yeah and comp that in like I feel like the the people's surface level knowledge of things to your point about like everyone's an expert also overcomplicates

coming back to like the filmmaking world like the the old techniques that we still use today that might have a little tweak here or there because of you know digital advancements and all this tend to be the right ones They don't, we don't need to do a million things when we can do to it. A hundred percent, exactly. And, and, and that's, that's something I always love coming back to is like those simple solutions

and, and, you know, being creative and things like that. And it's like, you know what really fosters that kind of thought process? Getting off the internet and just going out into the world. It's just like trying things for yourself and just getting your hands dirty and, you know, doing the shot deck recreation challenge and experimenting and doing DIY stuff on your own and just just trying to recreate something with no money like that's what forces you to be creative as opposed to just clacking away on your keyboard and speculating about what so and so must have done for this and that well also like I guess I don't know if this is just because I'm older

or because you know the the journalist side of my brain is always looking for primary sources but the way I figured out the chopstick thing is I just went to her TikTok account went through the comments someone asked her and she answered

right yeah you didn't need to sit here and speculate we could have spent five seconds the person who asked could have just spent five seconds

they downloaded the video to share with us why aren't you asking her yeah she would have answered she answered someone else yeah like yeah anyway

we had to over yeah that had nothing to do with anything I did want to ask because obviously we've seen each other like a handful of times between the last time we spoke on the podcast now.

Yeah. How, we've never really talked about this, but your career post-creator seems to be, have gotten more legs than I think most people who'd shoot like a popular feature. Like you seem to have become like a warranted subject matter expert in a lot of different ways.

You know, you get sent out to talk about cameras, lenses, lighting, you know, all these things. has that was that already part of your track or has this kind of been a new development that you've come to experience oh yeah definitely a new development um and a welcome one mostly just because it gives me something to do in between uh you know while while we're looking for the next the next feature it's so funny it's it's it's you know like if you go to my i mdb there's um you know going back to like when projects start which is film school essentially uh there's like

dozens of projects every year because it was short films so you know there's um 20 10 2011 2012 and then even up to just a couple years ago there was a year um can't remember exactly the year where i did i did like four short films and a couple couple couple features every year or so or every year and then um the the timeline now is way more stretched out so there's like getting to the point now where i'm not really doing those those kinds of projects anymore um so focusing more on on features and finding the next long form project and in between well exactly yes it's an amazing place to be it's exactly with like with the end goal it's like we're we're here it's the first step yeah yeah in this new room you know it's like i've been in this other hallway i've been in this

hallway this whole time trying to get to the room at the end of the hallway and it's like okay now i'm i've got one foot in the room and now it's this whole other hallway but in this hallway time is measured differently where now it's like years in between projects so now there's these big gaps like i shot a film last year um which was my first feature since the creator but it's not going to come out till next year. Right. So now there's just these big gaps in between projects and you fill the time with commercials and other short form stuff and, um, but things like this, like, you know, going around and talking about things or doing interviews about stuff or even just this side project with Fuji film is like just more great stuff to do, uh, in between features,

which is, um, you know, I think we just need that like you need, you need to do something. You can't just sit around to wait for the phone ring. So especially in the last couple of years because the industry's still been recovering from the strikes and from COVID and all that. So projects have been a little slow to come back online. So combined with all of that, it's, yeah, it's been, it's new. It's definitely a new, a new thing that was not in the plan to become this. So when it goes around talking about cameras, you know, being the, the, the, the,

I don't know, the FX3 whisper or whatever, everyone always wants to talk about the FX3, which is fine. I'm happy to talk about it. Or now the Eterno, which, again, I'm very happy to talk about because I thought it was a really cool camera. But, you know, I'm just happy to nerd out about anything, you know, talk about cameras, talk about movies. If anyone ever wants to nerd out about movies, I watch a lot of movies.

Them to find out. Yeah, a filmmaker watches films. Yeah. Well, a lot of people don't, which I always find surprise. but um yeah you know what to your point about the the gap between projects and i've mentioned this a bunch of those podcasts so people who listen probably are sick of it but uh i all not that i got in the hallway we all want to be in but i there's a middle hallway and it's all these documentaries i've shot and i like right three or four i can't remember because it's all the

same production company so they all kind of get jumbled but like back to back to back and i was so excited because I was like, I'm working. These are going to come out. People are going to know that I'm, you know, not a scrub. And then now we're in post on most of them. And I'm like, oh, shit. Because it's like, you know, I started filming one of them like a year and a half ago. Yeah. And it's like, oh, that's what happens with features. Because like, I was always frustrated, not frustrated, but you would see people get, you know, interviewed about, because I, you know, the reason this thing exists, because this is kind of stuff I like, I like learning. And so you'd see interviews with people and they'd be like, so how'd you do that? And they're like, I don't

remember. And I'm like, how do you not remember? It's like, oh, right, because it was three years ago. Yeah, exactly. These things take time now. And, and, you know, it's, it's, it's definitely, it makes you realize the importance of note taking. And, um, uh, so that you can kind of go back and reference it. But, um, but, but yeah, it's definitely a different measure, which is, is, is, is, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's really, um, it's, it's, it's been really good. But. You know, you're never satisfied. It's like you're always waiting for the next step and wanting more and all that. It never changes.

Well, I think anyone who is creative, but I think most people, those people I know, iteration is part of the fun. You know, I suppose there's certain people out there who make one product, for instance, and they just hammer that. And that's like their specialty is to make this one thing. Or maybe, I was going to say a chef, but that's not even, that's not even true. But, but it, yeah, when you're a DP, that iterative process can slow down drastically versus like if you're like a grip or something where you can work every day and learn new things and try and do things. Exactly. Yeah. At least in narrative.

Yeah. Like, or I should say in features. Yeah. I mean, in TV. Commercial is different TV. Commercials is different and TV is different. Like once you kind of get into the TV world, it seems at least from peers and friends that, you know, you develop a cadence like you finish a show. And then once you kind of have that under your belt, things sort of start to snowball a little bit more.

But there's also just a lot more TV production than movie production is just a volume thing. So, you know, it just becomes a different cadence. different pace. But I haven't done TV yet. So I'm not in that in that pace. Well, I'm sure, you know, now that whole sort of at this point ancient delineation between film and television actors, directors, whatever, it's far gone. So, you know, I'm sure there's someone out there who could use your talents. Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, we'll see what happens. Actors and directors, yes, I think still, you know, weirdly, from a production standpoint, it's still very separate. It's like they're two different worlds, you know, they're very compartmentalized.

It's like there's very little overlap between producers and, you know, the production side that does television versus producers and so forth, production companies that do movies. So it's like you kind of either need to get plugged into this one or you're just out of it. It doesn't matter how much success or whatever you've accomplishedments you've done in this world. It's like, oh, but you haven't done a TV show. Right. Okay, well, then you don't know what you're doing. It's like it doesn't matter that you've done, you know. Well, I suppose it's kind of that same thing where it's like you're a horror DP, you're a comedy DP.

You know, it's like, well, it's all the same mindset. It's just because I've done it once doesn't mean I can't do something else, you know. Yeah, or like in commercials where it's like, oh, you've, you've shot a beer commercial with a, with a green. bottle, but you haven't shot a brown bottle. So I don't know. I just don't think you're going to be able to handle like you don't know how to shoot a brown bottle. So we need to go find a DP who knows how to shoot a brown bottle. Sorry. I know. How did you navigate? Because that, I mean, that that's part of a broader thing that I often have to tell like students is like if you want to do something, you have to prove that you've done it. And so that's when whenever people say like, oh, just go make

something and students get frustrated or whatever it's like but that's no one's going to hire you based on a promise they want to see a result first how did you navigate that yeah um it's a good question you know early on um i got some good advice from some a couple of cinematographers that went to my uh my film school that were a couple years ahead of me so so we had some some classes together and I knew them and you know they were a few years ahead and they they had some early success in commercials and and I saw them that success this was just a few years out of out of school and I was like how did you do it what what what did you do and so they they told me their secret and then so now I will tell you their secret which became my secret now also

caveat this was like 12 years ago So, but I think the, I think the core sentiment is the same. And I can just speak to what I did with this. But essentially, there's two ways to go about it. And one is you can go out there in the early stages of your career, really at any stage, but it's a little easier to do this early on when you're not jaded and tired. or have other responsibilities and you're still fresh-eyed and you can go out there and self-generate projects like you can just go and and make something like film something like

if you have an idea or a concept um you know somebody who does something interesting that is is very is visual and you can just go and make a short documentary about them or just go shoot uh you have a friend who's a dancer and go shoot like a little dance film with them um and uh what i did that because i didn't really want to direct right and i think that the key component here and this was the advice was to um to tie yourself to directors so that you're not just self-generating work as a cinematographer because at the end of the day what people want to see is a is a really good and well polished, complete piece of work and not just pretty images devoid of context, right? So there were a couple of directors that I went to school with that were doing some

interesting work, but they hadn't quite met their full potential. I'd done some student films with them, and they had a few opportunities, but they weren't maximizing them. And so But that was, this was the advice that I acted on, which was basically like you can kind of connect with those direct, like link arms with those directors, but help guide some projects that have potential all the way through so that the full complete package is, is really polished and even help them with post production, with like finding an editor, finding a sound designer, connecting with like a higher end colorist to like give these projects an extra polish that otherwise like they, as the directors, you know, maybe they just don't know or don't have

the wherewithal to know yet that you can like, you know, reach out to a post house or reach out to an editorial house that has in-house editors that can elevate something or a sound design house or a professional color grading company or so forth. a couple years out of film school, there were two projects that I worked on that were very low budget, but I thought had potential. And one of them was a music video and one of them was like a PSA for a special Olympics. And they basically, I shot them, but then did exactly what I just said, like worked with those directors who I already knew and was kind of friends with to like identify and try to find like

let's look for an editor together let's reach out to them let's look at other pieces other films that we like the editing style and reach out to those editors and like let's see maybe there's a mutual connection um let's let's reach out to some sound designers that we went to school with that are now working professionally let me try my first foray at reaching out to company three and connecting with a junior colorist there who's just getting started and that happens to be somebody who had worked with these other cinematographers

that I mentioned earlier. So I was able to get an intro there. And that person was Kath Rache, who I've worked with many, many times since and she's now a senior colorist and has done amazing work and we work with each other to this day. But yeah, so those were like early projects

that basically, you know, you identify the opportunity, even though there's no money. Right. And all of this was for free, you know, like the, or for very low, low pay. But these are the projects that you identify as like, oh, these are the ones I can elevate, not just with my cinematography, but with everything. And I can shape the project, even though I'm not taking like a credit as a producer or as a director or whatever.

It's not about that. It's about making sure that my work shines because the final piece as a whole is really good. from start to finish and through all of its facets. And I didn't self-generate any work on my own, but I kind of, I don't regret it because obviously everything worked out fine. But at the time, I felt like I could have done that more. Like, I just, I don't know. I didn't really own, I didn't own a nice camera, which nowadays isn't a problem because

every camera can shoot really good imagery, but at the time, um, we didn't have that. So, you know, you either needed to see 300s were 16 grand, you know, exactly. So you either needed to have a friend who owned a red or, um, you know, I had like a, I don't know, with Canon T2I or something, which was just not up to par. Like the, the visual quality was just not up to stuff. The FX3 of the early 2000s. Yeah, if only. Exactly. It wishes, but that's what we had. So it was just a different time. But I think nowadays there's even less of an excuse not to go out there and make

your own stuff because we have all these tools. So it's just about finding the inspiration and finding things that inspire you and things that are visually interesting and that you have access to. It's like the stuff that's in your life, the stuff that you have access to people that you know, places that you know, and stuff that you think. will be interesting and look interesting that you can create something out of. And think about the final piece, not just about the shots, like not just about the images, but what is actually a final piece that you can then edit together and put on your website as, as, you know, like a one-minute

longer 90-second dance film, short piece, music video, short doc, whatever it is. That's really what it's about it's like building out your portfolio essentially and then that starts to lead to other opportunities once you have kind of a more robust like body of work quote unquote even if it's just a handful of projects that's like that that tricky part in the early stage where you just don't really have a lot of a lot of work or or you have you know a show reel that's like individual shots from other projects that, um, that, you know, maybe the projects aren't so great. Like you're not very proud of the film, but like there's a couple of shots that are good. And that's all, that's all fine and well early on. But eventually, I think people start to look at

the actual work and not just the individual shots or, you know, your show real like you need to actually start building a body of work. And, uh, yeah, so that that was the advice. And I think that that's still rings true to this day. I would think that that would still ring true. Yeah, I mean, it's actually kind of rad to hear you say all that, because that's roughly what I did. Yeah. You know, I did have, the first, like, I still own every camera I ever bought, but, you know, I had parents that were willing to, you know, fund my stupid dreams. So, like, I had like an XL2 and then when I got to college I got a AF 100 which was a huge deal because everyone else was using DVXs and so I need to go tapeless faster right and so that was able to get me like

editing and stuff and then I ended up getting hired to shoot for other people and to your point about cameras all being good now like that type of like oh I have the only tapeless camera oh please come hire me or having the first red as you mentioned like that that day's kind of gone depending I mean, I will get, I had to buy that aforementioned F-55 because a lot of documentaries are like, we're all on Sony. Sure. You know, all right, I need another body. But to your point about like going and making things in your community, I got this C-100 and as like my first, like, all right, I'm going to just start generating my own shit. And because the C-100 was a pretty big upgrade from the AF-100.

Yeah, I'll say. Yeah. And I went to a ramen store by my house and just interviewed the ramen chef there and did like a little doc. And then like six years later, the guy who lives in Japan that owns this chain of restaurants followed me on Instagram. So I know he saw it. But that was like literally just that one little video was enough to like convince other

people to let me on their smaller projects and stuff. And then recently I, because I feel like it's one of those bell curves where like I would start to acquire more gear, lighting, audio, whatever. And I would turn down jobs because they wouldn't pay me enough to bring all this gear. And then I realized probably too late that that was hurting me because they're not hiring my gear, they're hiring me. And if I can bring the gear and save them headache, money, time, they will continue to hire me. And then if it's, if it is a good production, you know, not just taking advantage of, but you're on a, you're on a low budget thing, but you're working with that director that you've tied yourself to.

Once the director gets a higher budget thing, they know you as the problem solver. They're going to bring you on. Yes. Which is exactly what happened to me. And that's another important thing to do, which is sort of identifying which are the jobs that are worth you, quote unquote, investing in, which basically means doing it for low to know to no money but but but but not not doing so in a way that feels like you're being taken advantage of because if it feels like you're being taken advantage of then that means that you're

you're you don't believe in the project or that you know that you're not really getting anything out of it in which case it's not worth it for you but every once in a while there's projects that come around that you can identify as like oh this is an opportunity for me to to to invest in myself and to invest in a relationship with a director or to invest in my portfolio that will pay us. And in those cases, like, I've done music videos in the past where, you know, maybe they offered like a low rate. And I've said, I don't need the, I don't need the pittance of the low rate. Like, I'd rather put this back in the project and just get better, better lenses. That's a good point.

Yeah, because there's a separate track, which is the jobs that you do to make money. Yeah. And if this one is like, I'm not really making a lot of money on it anyway, then I might as well just fully commit and just invest in it, quote unquote, myself and get, you know, the most out of it that I can. And that's okay. It's like as long as you're doing that consciously and intentionally, then I think that is an important part of those early years, as long as you, you know, keep in mind that there's

those two parallel tracks, like you need to take care of your financials, but also I keep an eye on those, identifying those opportunities where you're building yourself up and or building relationships. And both are important, you know, and you can't discount one or the other as you're kind of building yourself up and turning something down just because it doesn't pay a lot even if it may be a great opportunity or or vice versa you know turning something down because it's not because you know you need the money like that's that's totally okay like you don't need to show everybody everything that you do like it's okay to have a part of your career that's just that's just income that's that's totally fine

and normal and and most DPs have that even even the biggest DPs you know like all the big a list cinematographer ASC cinematographers like go off and shoot McDonald's commercials in between movies and you would never know because they don't advertise it anywhere well and the the two sides can feed each other like obviously your money gigs are going to you know if you're on somewhat on my level where you do investing your own equipment and stuff more often than not Obviously, that could pay for that or whatever, but what I found is that like my money making it for the longest time was literally one corporate client who just really loved these testimonials that we kept doing. And he got me a few other gigs from literally his clients that needed a corporate

style video. But the more when I would get more creative gigs, more interesting gigs, I would learn, you know, better lighting techniques, better, you know, hone my creative vision, which made the corporate videos better, which made them go, oh, no one shoots like this, you know, and pass my name long. So they were feeding each other, you know, right. It was very helpful for me. Yeah, totally. That makes sense. Yeah. The, uh, I did, obviously, we need to talk about the GFX, because uh, it is by far one of the most, um, exciting cameras for me. Because I, I, I love Fuji film as I'm very friendly with all of them, all the people that work over there. which I should probably mention,

just so that people know I have vaguely rose-tinted glasses about Fujifil. Did they ask you about anything or were you brought on purely as like a, hey, test this out, make something interesting with this tool? Yeah, it was basically that. I got connected with them through the creator, but through the stills that I took on set.

Right, which are fucking gorgeous, by the way. Thank you. Yeah, that was just a fun side project, honestly like you know it was my first big big movie and even though it was fast paced um because of the way we were shooting it which you know we talked about um check out that episode uh insert episode number

here so you can go back and listen to it but uh uh the you know there's still a lot of downtime it's still a big movie there's there's downtime in between stuff and the just the locations we were at and the costumes and everything it was just so beautiful inspiring Thailand and you know so visually stimulating. I, um, and we didn't really have, um, a traditional, um, set photographer for a lot of the shoot. Mm. So I just thought it would be fun to take, uh, to take stills on set, like just to kind of pass

the time. Uh, so I had already been shooting with the GFX 1002 at the time just, uh, just for my own personal photography, like on, on travel and trips and stuff. So I had that with me and that was the camera that I had on set and I was taking all these stills with it. When the movie came out, they used some of those stills for the, for the marketing and they were sharing them and I think maybe I tagged a Fuji film on Instagram or something and their marketing team reached out and was like, hey, these are cool.

Yeah, like these are cool. Maybe we should do some cross promotion talk about using. the GFX on set to take the stills. And yeah, so that was how I got connected with that, with their whole team, Fujifilm, U.S., and met all of them. They're such great people. And, yeah, so just cut to two years later, they basically just reached out out of the blue and said, hey, you know, we've been developing this camera, didn't have the name yet,

but a camera that cinema camera that takes the same sensors as the gfx but puts it in the cinema body and uh would you be interested in in shooting a uh like the film like a launch film uh and and use it to to go film something take it out into the field uh and i said uh yeah sure what uh what do you have in mind and uh and this was the best part of it because they basically said i don't know what do you have have in mind. Yeah. They told me that's actually something they've pivoted to doing overall is like instead

of paying for marketing, they will like pay. I don't know if this is the case with you, but they, they were telling me that they'll pay like to make, they'll produce the films. You make it. They'll just give you the money to make it. Yes. So they essentially said we have a budget for production. Like we can give you a budget to go produce a film and you tell us what you want to make.

and so yeah so I was like oh wow okay cool what would I want to make and this actually kind of goes back to what we were just talking about like oh you know as a cinematographer you can go out and make your own stuff what would you do what would you make yes and so I immediately reached out to a director just like I did back then um and except this time it was somebody who was you know we're all a little further along in our careers at this point so this is a this is a director friend of mine who um he's done a couple of features and uh he's he's just a good friend and uh i just roped him into it and said hey fuji uh fuji film were willing to give me this budget to to make uh to make something and i think i want to make a short film like I want to do a narrative, but this because what I had pitched to them before I even brought him on was, you know, we've all seen a dozen, you know, dozens and dozens of camera launch films and demo reels and all that. And they're stuck in 1998 a lot of the time. Exactly.

Like how many times have we seen somebody, you know, walking through a forest or a city, you know, riding a bike and. skateboarding and doing something cool and parkcoring or it's so frustrating that you're not even making things i can identify in my head shots and they're beautiful they're pretty but um but the thing is um all all that i get out of those reels usually is oh this camera can make pretty pictures which is like well of course it can right um because every camera can that now. Like every camera can make beautiful images. So that's kind of a given at this point. And so I don't really know what I get out of going out and shooting, you know, a model or somebody doing something cool that doesn't have anything behind it. That's just beautiful images devoid of context that are

graded to look all nice and sharp and clean and, you know, making the sensor look. look its best. Like, we all know that all these cameras, when they're exposed well and in beautiful light and graded well and, you know, they make all the colors pop, they all look great. Yeah. So, so what are we? Yeah, exactly. So what are we gaining from this?

So, so I told Fujifil, like, what I would love to do and what I think would really make this stand out is if you allow us, if you're open to it. it to make a narrative film that is story driven, emotional, gritty, and let us like really just go through the process of a narrative production from beginning to end, pre through posts, like let us develop a lot, let us write a script, go through a production, get your behind-the-scenes footage of it on set in action, and then let us grade. it, you know, and let us muck up the image a little bit. Like, let us actually push the camera to its limits as opposed to showing it in its best conditions. Let us, exactly, let us show it in its

roughest positions, like, you know, low light in the elements, on location, doing drama that actually people can connect to emotionally and associate this camera with cinema, with cinematic imagery, that would make this stand out from reels of people running their hands through a field of flowers. And later, if you want that footage, you can get someone else to go out and shoot that stuff easily. I'm sure there's a line of DPs out the door who'd be willing to go shoot beautiful images. And they were on board. They loved it. They were like, yeah, let's do it. It's different. It's exciting and it's risky. And it's risky. And, And, uh, and they, they were on for the ride. So, well, it was really cool. It was

unexpected, but I was really, really pleased. Yeah. I mean, it's awesome to be given that control. Um, the food, I've noticed that the Fujifilm US team, I've learned this from various camera manufacturers that the Japanese team and the US team tend to be like, sometimes they don't even talk. Like they're completely different companies. So I think that's something people don't understand is like canon for instance i'm pretty friendly with a lot of the canon people and like the times i've been like why not this and they're like japan yeah that no we can't do anything about it you're like well that sucks but uh mostly in marketing affairs not like exactly yeah and in this case that you know they they still need to get sign off from everybody but they were like

we we can sell this like we can we can go and pitch this to them and they'll they'll support us because we can we could sell this and but but they were the the u.s team were 100% behind it and I think that really does speak to um to their you know creativity and and and and integrity and interest in in filmmakers and cinema and not just um phoning it in as a as a camera company that's just looking to to move products but they I think they're really trying to make an impact So it was great. And, you know, we developed the script with them. You guys did a great job of showcasing, you know, obviously all the formats you can shoot in and all that stuff in a way that did not feel gimmicky at all.

Totally. Yeah, yeah. And a lot of that was me also. Like I wanted to make sure that we covered brand the gamut of showing what the camera could do also selfishly because I wanted to test it. And I wanted to I wanted to try out different formats and different lenses and different lighting scenarios. but I think that was also that also helped sell our idea to them because I was like oh well shoot it in day interior day exterior night interior all this and that and it was like oh yeah great we'll be able to tick all these boxes but but yeah the parameters really were

you know like don't make anything R rated or controversial sure but other than that you know have at it and and so my friend my director friend that I mentioned earlier and Andrew wrote this beautiful script. He sent me like half a dozen concepts, like a little one-liner. Like, what if it's this? What if it's this? What if is this? And this one stood out.

It was like very obviously the standout idea. So then he went off and wrote it and developed it. And yeah, then that's it. We went out and made it. But it was really, it was just such a great process the whole time. And the Fuji film were so supportive. Well, and I kind of liked the way that they sort of, I guess, launched the short because I thought I was watching the short.

I didn't realize I was watching, I don't know what you'd call it, a cut down or like a teaser. Yes, it's the first five minutes. Yeah. And so when she goes into the like control room, I was like, what? Because it ended. And I was like, no, no, I want to watch that now. I know that I didn't want to watch it initially. but like it that was it was like perfect like bait for me wanting to watch the film whatever you guys actually

yeah we hook you and then leave you wanting more yeah we we've we've screened the the full film and actually if anyone's going to be at camera mage um you can come see the whole film uh we will screen it but um yeah we're we've withheld the full film online because we're doing a film festival run next year so you know you can't really release it in public yet um so the full film will be available next year at some point um hopefully soon so people can see the conclusion but uh yeah we we release the first five minutes and um and then it kind of dovetails into like a little teaser for the rest of the movie yeah uh but yeah the so what um in just in regards to using the camera as its own. I think one of the biggest questions that I certainly had, but everyone seemed to have had,

which is, what is, or is there a difference in the implementation of that sensor in a new body? Is it just GFX in a different body? Or I know they put a low pass filter in front of it, so I'm going to change something, some things. But is there, do you know of any, like, processing differences? I know a big question that a lot of people had was about rolling shutter. But I noticed in your film, there was quite a bit of movement that didn't seem to be jelloy in any form. Like, was it that you then corrected or what, you know, what were kind of any, any that workflow? Yeah. Yeah.

As soon as you're asking this question, I was like, a lot of people were interested in the rolling shutter. It's the one thing people keep bringing up. I used to care more. And then my buddy got a baron. And everyone was like, oh, my God, it's the worst rolling shutter in the world. And then he showed it to me and I was like, yeah, if you do this, but like I don't shoot that way. You know, like I don't, I think so long, but yeah, frankly, um, again, this is the, the, the rants cast, uh, yeah, I just, I just don't care, you know, it's like, it's exactly what you said.

It's like, yes, if you take, if you take the Eterna and, and hold in front of you and whip it back and forth like you just did, like bruh, uh, you're going to see the jello effect, which by the way, you get that effect on any digital camera that isn't a global shutter. Um, you get that effect on the Alexa. You get that effect on the Venice. Um, the lines will skew more on the Eterna, um, than those cameras because the refresh rate is a little bit is lower. But like, you're going to get jello on any digital camera.

If you whip it, uh, really quickly. so like how often are you really doing that kind of camera move and if you're shooting something that requires that kind of movement uh you probably go go out and get a global shutter camera for that specific uh application anyway yeah but like 98 percent of filming or you're just shooting especially drama like you're just shooting static shots of people um or you know just dollies or steady cam shots following people around and just traditional coverage and stuff like that, you're not moving the camera that way. So you're not going to encounter this issue at all. Like, it just doesn't come up. And, you know, and then the other thing, when people

scrutinize this kind of stuff, it's like, oh, but the refresh rate is this number and blah, blah, it's like, okay, but when, where does that manifest when you're actually in the field? Like when you're actually using it, the use cases of the camera. Where does that manifest? Yeah. Okay. So again, yeah. In specific use cases, pick your tool.

Yeah. For the right job. And, you know, I always go back to this thing again where it's like everyone's an armchair expert. But Claudio Miranda put FX3s, which have pretty low refresh rates on F1 race. cars going, you know, 100 plus miles an hour. And spun them. Doing whip pants. Yeah, yeah.

Do the FX3s were doing little whip pans. And those shots are in a movie that screened in IMAX and made $600 million dollars worldwide. So like, who cares? Like that's, I just always come back to this. Like, what did the rolling shutter on the FX3s that were mounted to the F1 cars in the movie F1 really bother you like was that really pull you out of the story yeah was that a problem was that was that an issue in the movie yeah did it pull you out um so anyway that's my

that's what i think about the rolling shutter but to answer your question uh well that did i i felt the need to bring it up only because it's like if i didn't i would be burned alive sure especially when i opened by saying i'm a fan of fuji film like i'm not going to sit here totally and and that's that's my answer to it. It's like, is there a rolling shot? Yeah. I mean, you can see the number, the refresh rate, but it's like, do I care? Yeah. Or does it come up in 98% of, of shooting scenarios? No. Yeah. It doesn't. And like you mentioned, even in the movie, there actually are shots where we kind of are whipping the camera around a little bit. Like we're shooting handheld, like this very loose handheld style. And I don't know. You just don't really see. it. Like, I'm sure it's there in the footage, but you just don't, it doesn't really, it's not

very noticeable because of the subject matter and I guess whatever's in the frame and the way it's edited. It just, I don't know, you just don't really notice it. So anytime people ask about that, I just say, I don't know, go look at the footage. Yeah. And you tell me, is there a rolling shutter? Is that it, do you think it's a problem? But in terms of feeling that the difference between the GFX 100 and this. Yeah, aside from the low-pass filter, it did feel familiar. It felt similar to the GFX 100.

And actually, what I kept remarking to them, and I said this in some other stuff, like I mentioned this in the BTS video, my first impression of framing up shots with this thing was, It felt like I was framing up medium format still frames. Like the way that I would shoot stills on the GFX 100. Like the imagery felt very similar, except it was moving.

It was like motion stills, like motion medium format stills. And I think that's what I found so exhilarating about this specific combination of sensor, lenses and subject distance. which is kind of that that unique combo that you get with medium format still photography is like that's that's how you get that that look quote unquote that medium format look it's like it's just that unique that specific combo of of this the sensor size or the film size and the lenses and the distance from the subject and you can just with the right combo you get that look where it's like it's it's kind of wide but but you have that really shallow depth of field so it's like you feel the environment but but there's separation and and it feels

big yeah and um especially close up to portraiture uh and that was the effects that we were getting with these lenses on this sensor um framing up shots like that framing up portraits especially using the the open gate using the four by three uh framing and framing for open gate so uh yeah that was my my big impression was, yeah, actually, this does remind me of the GFX. Like it reminds me of shooting stills on it, but, but the shots are moving and I can move the camera. So it was cool. It was kind of exhilarating.

It was like sort of something new, which, which I thought was really, it was really exciting. And you could put anamorphic lenses on it. Right. Well, and I think it's that you just pointed out something that I hadn't really put into words, but especially when the first line of DSLRs came out that could shoot video, obviously the biggest issue was like I got a Nikon D90 when it came out it was the first one. People think it was a 5D. It's D90.

That's right. And the stills, D90, phenomenal, right? I think it's only 12 megapixel only now at the time. Right. Super 35, great. But then the video, okay, that rolling shutter actually was an issue. You couldn't move at all. Correct. But the point being, you take pictures, they look great, video looks booty.

This is one of the first cases I can think of where the video kind of looks like the photos. Exactly. Yes, yes, it does. And I'm not very technical. So I can't quite explain it or put my finger on why or how. but it just does and maybe it's the lenses that we used and maybe for sure

but but yeah there was something about it that just had that that that alchemy that you know it's like when I look at at still frames from from the footage that we shot like oh yeah a lot of these look like photos you know like they look like they could be still photos

which I think is it's pretty interesting you know and and I think that that places this camera in like a kind of unique position because I don't know that I've felt that before on certain other cameras and again it just depends what lenses you put on on other cameras because you can you can recreate the same effect with with certain lenses they just need to be very fast and you know covering certain sensors but but yeah it was just the the specific combo that we used and then you know just created this alchemy that that was

was really cool and then you have fuji's color science added into that that i think also elevates things so uh that is something i wanted to touch on because uh i do feel like any of fuji films cameras i think i think color science well i've heard that's actually a misnomer but we're going to use it because the nomenclature dictates it that's everyone knows what we mean but Um, the, um, I think any camera, especially, you know, if you're in the Steve Yedlin, it's just data mindset. Yes. Anything could be anything. But I do think that Fuji films sensors do look, I don't know about the best, but they, they look very, very good.

And I was wondering for you, uh, getting those, what was it, Flog 2, Cini? Are you shooting raw? No, we did shoot Flog too internally. We didn't shoot raw. Yeah. Yeah, because, yeah, because Raw has to be like a ninja or whatever. That's right. Yeah, externally recorded.

Well, we'll get to that too because I only have like one weird completion. Where's the SDI? Why is it? Okay. I know. We're going to combine a couple questions into one. One, how did you find the footage looked in the grade? Because like Flog 1 footage, the highlights kind of clip, at least on my XT3.

I haven't used any of the newer ones since then. So maybe that's just a older camera issue. But how did that handle in the grade and what were any workflow considerations with that specific body? Because especially on the one hand, they seem to have listened to a lot of DPs about the development of this. There's certain little things in it that are amazing workflow enhancements or quality of life forever. Like the little battery so you can hot swap VLox. Very smart. So smart.

Yeah. I had to jerry rig that on my C500 where you leave the normal battery in and there's like a plate that goes on the back. the wheels being able to switch the fizz wheels that that those are possible of sick right um obviously variable ind sick but yes um like i mentioned weirdly lacking an sdi port for a professional level camera you know at 165 that's what my c 500 mark two came at i i that's how i'm making the mental comparison at you know price point level um and they're very similar but that was one but so when you're making a feature, what could it do? What couldn't it do? What were things that you found to be exciting? Yeah, I mean, we built it out as like a full cinema built. As you would. Yeah. So,

you know, we had an onboard monitor, wireless output, Teradec, wireless focus and everything. It's like fully kidded out, synit tape and everything. And I know it took a little bit of, finagling to get it right to get enough power on it and everything but um they did figure it out i think it just took a little bit of configurating uh but they they they they we did get everything on there that we needed so it's it's doable it's possible uh for what it's worth yeah but probably just took the aces a little bit extra to to to figure it out and i guess maybe the other caveat is we had kind of a beta version, so it wasn't fully, you know, the, the current, um, functionality. Well, the thing I was going to say was that, uh, Fuji films really good at firmware updates.

And like I said, they seem to be listening to, like I said, all the ASC members that, um, you know, whatever. I'm not going to, I'm going to take credit for it, even though I'm sure someone else said that. I may have at that ASC meeting came up with the name of Turner 55. I said it. I said 65, but I said it. So who's to say it wasn't me? Who's to say? But yeah, I'm sure like when you came up with things and told them they probably

scribbled it down and sent it straight to the firmware people. Yes. And we had a really productive meeting with the engineers beforehand where we got to go over things, which was really great. I believe there is an SDI out on the camera, but there's only one. Oh, there is one. There is one. Oh, okay, okay, okay.

Yes, there is an SDI out, but, but, but yeah, there, there's one. So if you need more than you do need, you know, I'm sure people will develop like third party accessories that have additional SDI breakouts. And like we were mentioning before, there's, you need to record raw externally. And you can only do that through HDMI. Maybe that's what I was thinking of them initially, was that was versus raw RSDI. Which is a limitation and people have commented and pointed out, which I think is fair, that there's no internal raw recording, which I think for a camera at this level,

you know, is a fair thing to point out. I think it's also worth pointing out that the Sony Venice didn't have internal raw originally. Neither did. I didn't F55, neither did the R.E. Alexa. You had to record to an external thing. Codex box.

Exactly. Now, now this was 10 years ago, but still. So, you know, I guess I don't, I don't have any inside info. So I could just speculate that. some future version of this camera will probably address that because this is just iteration one and they got as much as they could into it and I think maybe made a gamble that internal raw was not like a necessary enough feature to be worth the extra trouble to make it work

and that they'll figure it out on the next iteration. And so to that point, we, I think, in order to demonstrate the internal codec, did not shoot external raw. We shot with the internal codec in Flog 2C, which is a slightly limited bit rate. It's a 422 codec, and it's 10 bit, or maybe it's 12 bit. Now, I can't recall. I mean, 12. I guess pro res 422 is

I think pro res 422 is 10 bit 444 is 12 bit but I could be wrong yeah I'm not sure but either way it's it's definitely limited from what people are kind of used to with 444 which is you know more more bit depth and more more color depth that said here's what I'll say I did not have a lot of familiarity with flog 1 because I didn't shoot a lot of video on on my on the gfx 100 or any of my other fiji film cameras really using them for stills but we found f log 2 like really robust um in the grade and uh uh uh like it was kind of surprising honestly um i because i i don't really know what i was expecting but i mean it kind of behaved like like log c um in a way like i don't know if they designed the curve um based on that or

inspired by that or learn some lessons from existing log curves from other cameras. But the fall off, you know, the highlight shoulder fall off and the toe really smooth. And the highlights, obviously above a certain IRA, you're clipping. But the roll off is really smooth. So you don't have that like cliff fall off, you know, where it's just like there's certain highlights. that clip and they're just kind of garish and then you get this like banding around where it clips it doesn't do that it's like it has this really nice smooth uh roll off from the highlights that clip gradually into the gradient of of the ones that don't clip so in the log they don't look like they're clipped like they just look very bright and you can easily kind of grade them all

down so that they don't look clipped they just look very bright So that was really good. And then in terms of the color information and retention, like all the detail was there. And we intentionally lit with a wide color variance, again, to kind of push the sensor to its limits. Like, especially in the attic location, we lit with a lot of mixed colors, reds, greens, yellows, a little bit of blue. Like, there's a lot thrown in there. and we lit um the lead actress's face with red and yellow light kind of mixed together um and it retained all of that separation like all that was in the the log and our lut was able to separate those colors

and still maintain that separation and still get a nice skin tone out of it so yeah like all that to say i mean we really found the the log uh the f log like pretty robust to the point where you know, unless, I don't know, I was shooting something that really, really needed the extra information from raw. If I was cutting it with other footage that had more bit depth and, you know, more color information, like if I was shooting a project with the Alexa or something, shooting Ari Raw, and I was shooting additional footage with this camera, I would probably shoot raw externally just to make sure that this footage had more room to work with to be able to match

you know other footage that has more information if I was shooting a project just on this camera I don't think I would do raw you know it just seems unnecessary considering how robust the internal codec was from our experience so you know it's just found it really impressive yeah I mean I so again main camera that I use C500 mark two has internal raw so actually does my C70 technically some flavor of it

I guess it's compressed raw, but I don't use it. All four of those feature docs that I shot, all on XFABC, 10 bit. Yeah. It seems like it would be overkill for many applications, like, which I think was the point. I think that's probably the calculation that they made when they. It likely would have added cost, I assume, you know, trying to keep being affordable-ish. Assumedly. And wait.

Yeah. It's very light. the thing is very lightweight. I was playing with Victor had a model at Sinegear. And by far, that that Zoom that they launched with it, that, like, Cine Zoom was way heavier. Yeah, absolutely.

God, that's a chunky guy. It's gorgeous. I mean, it's a gorgeous lens. Yeah. And I don't even know how they figured out the internals for that, like the electronic zoom with a geared knob. A geared focus ring doesn't make any sense to me. But very heavy.

Yeah. Yeah. It's a lot of electronics in that one. So I don't know. But despite this camera having a lot of electronics in it too, yeah, surprisingly lightweight, which I also found very freeing. You know, considering the sensor size and all that, you kind of associate that look with these big, big, big, big old heavy cameras. Like the, you know, the Alexa 65 and all that. but um it's it's it's really small and nimble and light so we were shooting like we were talking about before these handheld shots which was just me with the easy rig with this camera and i could run around with it whip it around and um it was it was so nimble light uh so yeah i thought that was uh found that really exhilarating yeah well and uh to your earlier point about the clipping thing that's the advantage to a larger sense You have more pixels that like, it's like a, what do you call it, dithering. Yeah.

You know, like when you have way more physical photosites and only a handful of them are clipping, it kind of dithers into a roll off versus if you had a smaller, fewer photosites and, you know, three of them make up that whole. Exactly. The edge is, is rounder because there's more actual pixels and photosites that make up an edge. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Was there anything else on the body itself that you found to be kind of like a value add over your more traditional, you know, Dennis and Alexa type? Because like the one thing I actually really appreciated was the dual six button, like the exact, just the mirrored six button on either side. I thought that was pretty slick. Yes, I actually really like that as well. I think that was really smart. And I pointed that out to them. And they were very happy to hear it.

Yeah, I can't really think of anything else at the moment, but I am honestly most excited about those, like, switchable wheels because they're exactly where I hold cameras. Yeah. So being able to do, you know, focus and the virus. Right. That is nice. Yeah, having the dual menus definitely, definitely, I think was really smart. And, yeah, otherwise, yeah, you know, I just, I think the thing is, is pretty well designed. So who do you think it's for, like, not in the sense, who are they aiming it for?

Because I know they're aiming it for professionals, right? And as we mentioned, it is their first volley. So we'll give them some leeway if necessary. But who do you think is the user who would find? the most value out of it. Yeah, also a great question. And I honestly, I don't really know the answer. And I'm going to be very curious to see what the answer is.

I think it's kind of a question mark, which I think is very risky on their part, but exciting, because it feels like the first camera in a while that is kind of just out there doing something different. like I don't know some people some people were asking me at some point like oh how does this camera compare to so-and-so like the c-500 or the raptor x-l or whatever and I'm like honestly I can't really compare it to those cameras because it it does something different than those cameras and does something unique which is it has something unique which is the sensor I do think we need to put a strong point in that. It's the like, yes, the amount of people who are like, I would love to shoot an Alexa 65, it's like, well, now you kind of can. So that's the, this is the thing. I think this is kind of the key thing to it is that regardless of the specs and the, the, the codec and the rolling shutter and all of these things, the number one thing with this camera is that it has the tallest. digital sensor of any camera on the market by far. I mean, it has a unique sensor out there that

is, it's not quite 70 millimeter, but it's much larger than Super 35. It's not as wide as the Alexa 65 or the Blackmagic 17K, which are the other sort of quote-unquote large format sensors out there, the only other two. But it's taller than either of those sensors. And it's the only one that's four by three because both of those sensors are are horizontal. So they're, I think they're like 2.2 to 1 is their native ratio. Like they're very wide. Yeah. Which limits your anamorphic capabilities.

Exactly. Because those sensors are really, they're two sensors laid on their side. And so, you know, if you're framing for, no matter what you're framing for with those sensors, you're cropping some part of the sensor off because if you're framing for 185 you're cropping the sides a little bit if you're framing for 235 cinemascope you're cropping the tops a little bit

anamorphic obviously you're cropping a lot but this sensors is the same shape as a super 35 sensor 4 by 3 it's also the same shape as as iMacs it's just a little bit smaller so I think there's something really interesting there and unique.

And I think there's a unique opportunity if filmmakers are open to seeking it out and trying it. So what I would be interested and curious to see is independent filmmakers, because the camera is a much lower price point than any of the other two cameras that are sort of in its class, quote unquote, the Black Magic 17K and the Alexa 65 or the 265. And so it makes that kind of the large format cinematography look way more accessible, like you just said. And so if filmmakers are willing to embrace it and try it, I think it would be a really great opportunity for indie filmmakers to take the aesthetic that we've seen some bigger movies lately explore. sinners and, um, obviously Oppenheimer and, you know, what Christopher Nolan has been doing with

IMAX and all that. But also one battle after another and this, you know, Vista vision resurgence that we've been seeing, um, which is only full frame. It's only full frame. So this sensor is bigger than than Vista vision. But, um, but, you know, what that movie was able to do by by blowing Vistivision up to IMAX and all that. All of this to me is like basically part of my, um, strong feeling that, you know, I'm not alone in thinking this, that like the cinema, the thing that's bringing audiences back to the movies and giving people a reason to come back to the movies is large scale spectacle, is large format spectacle. And that doesn't mean that it needs to be a big budget. That doesn't mean that it needs to be expensive epic films. It's more about

the scale of the imagery as opposed to and the scale of the emotion that you can then capture with this large format cinematography and you know like look at a film like Oppenheimer that even though yes it's this epic story and you know

it's this big larger than life historical event and there's there's all this stuff in it that's grand and epic but like a lot of that movie is close-ups yeah talking to ads exactly but they are rendered on this massive scale because of the way they're shot and the way they're exhibited. And so this is something we haven't seen yet.

Like we haven't really seen indie films attempt to like embrace this aesthetic really. And now here's a tool that that puts it in your hands. So I'd love to see somebody try it. And so I want I think it would be cool to see indie filmmakers try this. I think it'd be cool to see more filmmakers, you know, because IMAX, there's a very limited amount of IMAX cameras. There's a very limited amount of, there's even more limited amount of VistaVision cameras. And obviously, film is expensive.

But there will be more Fujifx Eternus out there than any of those cameras. So in the same way that those films, like sinners and, and, um, Christopher Nolan movies and Jordan Peel, like they go out and they shoot a portion of the film in IMAX. It's not the whole movie, but there's certain scenes that, you know, the aspect ratio expands. And they have this part of the movie that's shot in one format, but then the other one kind of expands. It would be cool to see some movies that maybe shoot on the Alexa in one format and then have a certain portion shot on this camera in the sort of, quote, unquote large format format and embrace that aesthetic and intercut it with something else. So, you know, I don't know.

I mean, the sky's the limit. And I think that's what's both risky but also exciting about it is like, I don't know what people are going to do with it, but I'm excited to see because I think it opens up a new opportunity that wasn't there before because this type of. Capture Medium wasn't ever available at this price point and at this scale of availability before up until now. So, yeah, like, have at it, you know? Well, and to your point, like, well, A, I think it's a far more interesting, if we're talking

about, like, you know, being nerds online and shit, far more interesting debate about sensor sizes and film sizes and various formats going into cinema than the resolution. You know? Oh, it's 16K. Oh, it shoots a thousand FPS. It's like, okay, great. You know, I'm shooting a 24. 4K's great. I don't care. But yes. And as you know, the the resolution debate is irrelevant because DCPs and film projectors anyway, they're all two they're all two K. And even if at some point they all get upgraded, they will upgrade to 4K. Yeah. So, you know, we're all still capping out at 4K and this camera, this camera shoots 4K in the open gate mode. It shoots in one whatever format. It's got a lot of different. It does. I think the top

speeds 8K something or another. Yes, but this is something they'll have to figure out. In the, I think it's 6.5K or maybe it's 8K. In that format, it actually windows down. Oh, interesting. The sensor. And in the OpenGate mode, it shoots 4K resolution. I think maybe it's a limit of the file size right mode or something. So I think, again, at some point, that's probably exactly something that they'll update in a future thing because clearly the camera is capable of recording a higher resolution. But anyway, tangent. But the point is, I agree, way more interesting than resolution is the sensor size. in the capture medium.

Also, the thing that I think you just kind of made me think of was obviously, you know, I think we're roughly the same age, but the watching the progression of filmmaking tools has always been really interesting coming from, you know, 35 is the only thing to, to early digital, you know, seeing the end, basically, of the pinnacle, I shouldn't say the end, but like the pinnacle of film technology, you know, 153 or whatever, and then starting back at the bottom with digital and seeing how it's progressed and stuff, those early days where we had your, you know, your DVX or whatever, it's a one third sensor and we're all thinking like, shit, okay, how do I make this look cinematic? Well, we can't shoot anamorphic because

we can't afford it. Okay, well, now a bigger sensor comes out. You're like, oh, let's get that camera because a bigger sensor will help us get shallower depth field, whatever, what have you. And now there's a camera like this with the enormous sensor and anamorphic lenses are cheap. Yes. It's a cinematic cheat code. Whenever people talk about like, oh, the cinematic look, big ass format,

animorphic, there you go. Exactly. 100%. And I'll also add that this camera's release is dovetailing with like a renaissance of lenses more. more even broadly. We have cheap anamorphics and we have this like

resurgence of medium format stills lenses that have been rehoused. All of which cover this sensor, except the beauty of medium format stills, stills lenses. And a third component of the lens, which is like all of these both legacy manufacturers

and new companies that have been, been popping up, developing new lens sets, a lot of which are being developed specifically to cover large format, even before this camera was announced. So there's a lot. Full frame or larger. Or larger, exactly, which was intended, you know, it's a lot of it's designed to cover the, the Alexa 65, which is actually wider than this sensor.

So if something can cover the Alexa 65, you can cover this sensor. But yeah, so it's like the amount of options that are out there now is so vast. And it's so exciting because there's new stuff coming even that isn't even out yet. And yeah, so I think this is coming out at like a really great time for cinematographers in terms of the options we have, the creativity that's at our fingertips. So I don't, I don't know if this is what Fuji film intended. for this camera, but I really think that this is, uh, this will be really interesting camera for indie filmmakers, um, and indie cinematographers to explore. And I think, I think, I think, I think it does

have a place, uh, on bigger productions as well. I don't know how many people will be allowed to, to take the risk, quote unquote, of shooting an entire big production on this camera. Sure. Uh, because of its limitations, but, um, using it as an additional camera. to augment a more traditional, shall we say? I mean, that's the reason. Yeah, I think totally. That's the reason I got my kind of like bought into the Canon ecosystem early on was because it was the B cam to the Alexa a lot.

It was. Yeah. And so, you know, if you're going to shoot a 265 film, I could see this being a good B cam. I could. Yeah, absolutely. Or again, like it, you know, can come in. and play a unique role because of, because of its censor size.

So, yeah, I don't know. We'll see. Well, in the, the goofy answer to the question is who, you know, who is this made for? It's made for me. Like I said at the beginning, like, I was, when they announced it, I was like, I want, give me one. Can I have one? Right.

I was like, I mean, we'll let you borrow one. I was like, but what if you get it to me? Yeah, but what if, what if I borrow it and then I lose it? Yeah. Because I want it. Because I am like, I was such like a, oh, you don't need full frame. And you don't. You don't need anything.

Like Super 35 is phenomenal. And I was actually just talking to Bella Gonzalez yesterday or two days ago about shooting alien and stuff. And she was talking about how she's actually falling back. She's like the lens choices for large format are really restrictive for her what she wants to do. So she's like falling back on Super 35. She's like, LX 35.

That's all we need to do. We don't need to be getting all crazy. and I agree with her. I personally have learned to just, like, go with my, I don't need it. This is like something, something I've learned as I've gotten older. It's like, I'm allowed to just like the things I like. I don't have to change myself to be more palatable to others. I can like, you know, the beaches, like this all girl pop band that I really love. Like I went and saw them the other day, or they're not pop, they're rock. But like, still, I don't need to be like cool bro guy. You know, I can just like that shit. And one of the things I like is big ass sensor. You know, I just like it. Let me, I want to shoot it. And anamorphic.

I want to shoot more anamorphic. Yeah. Like what you like. Don't let, don't let other people tell you what's cool and not cool. Certainly not on the internet. Yes, certainly not. Good God. You know, I'll, are you, are you a Dodgers fan at all?

I mean, I've lived in L.A. for eight years. So I think by default, you'd become a Dutch. I'm a Dodgers fan. I was talking to Jason, this is all going to go somewhere. I was talking to Jason Oldock this morning. Yeah. He,

I was tired and he looked at me and he goes, were you up till 1130? And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 18 in the game. Yeah. So the point of all this being like, if you're interested in watching it, I'm going to let you go here soon. But the, because I have to go down the street to meet a friend to watch it.

Oh, I see. Not that I don't love talking to you, but, you know, world serious. We can talk all night, but yes, Shoh Hayes waiting. We'll just have you back. Oh, fuck, he's pitching. That's right.

Oh, my God. Okay. Well, thank you for spending the time and chatting with me about the camera and the work in the rant cast. We'll definitely have to find some topics to rant about with purpose. Oh, yeah. And not just when they come up in, you know, the middle of my. Stream of consciousness. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. No, my pleasure. I always love. coming back to to um to the rant cast and and to any any pods that um we've already been on but also you know pods with friends and familiar faces because it always feels uh very comfy and casual so um i'll definitely be back yeah cool enjoy the rest of your day and uh i'll talk to soon thanks so much chat soon later buddy bye if you'd like to support the podcast directly you can do so by going to frame and refpod.com and clicking on the Patreon button.

It's always appreciated. And as always, thanks for listening.