Frame & Reference Podcast - 240: Cinematographer Quinn Feldmen

Episode Date: April 30, 2026

Starting his filmmaking career under world renowned DP Janusz Kaminski, Quinn Feldman has been working as a Cinematographer for over a decade. Familiar with all formats of film and digital mediums, you will see Quinn's work regularly featured on Kodak, Hawk, Panavision, Frame Set and other film making companies social media and websites. Enjoy!► ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠F&R Online ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠► ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Support F&R⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠► ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Watch on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Produced by Kenny McMillan► ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ► ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Hello and welcome to this episode 239 a frame and reference. You're about to drop into a conversation between me, Kenny McMillan, and my guest's cinematographer Quinn Feldman. Enjoy. I was looking at your website and I love how it's just somewhere in the middle there, under directors you've worked with is Janice Kaminsky. I would love to know what the fuck that's about. All right, Janush. Well, he was my mentor. Like I, I, sweet.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I like, I came from like a, uh, I rollerbladed all my life. Like, I was like really into rollerblading. And I got like so into it. I like was basically like a professional rollerblader up until like from when I was like like 16 until I was like 23. And all I did was skate like all the time. I didn't do anything else. I got a camera when I was like 16 or 17 like a GL2. And I would, like, film my friends and, like, we'd film each other for our skate sections, for our, like, sponsors or for whatever a project we were working on. Didn't think about cinematography or anything like that and stuff, which is weird, too, because my father's a screenplay writer and a producer. He had a really good career in Hollywood. My uncle as well, and my grandfather was a producer in Hollywood. So, like, I have, like, a family tree. So no one below the line, but I have, like, a family tree of people who, like, were a part of, like, you know, the filmmaking, you know, game. And they had courage and stuff.

I just wasn't into it, you know? Like I used to skate sometimes with this gaffer Matt Ardine. It's a really good gaffer. It does most of Larkin-Sepel's work in the Daniels. Yeah. And Matt, like I was skating with Matt still. And Matt, like, Matt was like a solid skater and stuff. I was like just super, super into it and stuff.

But we'd skate sometimes. and unbeknownst to me he was already like probably working with Larkin. I think Larkin at the time was actually Matt's best boy and stuff before he ended up like becoming like the DEP that he is and stuff. I remember seeing Larkin's work that when I first like got into it in 2011 being like

oh this guy's gonna do well. Yeah. Oh this guy's gonna do like so I remember asking Matt I said oh those those Daniels guys like I really love that like I really love that music video they did like I love to work with them you know And then I think from like 2011 all the way until now,

they literally have not worked with anyone else. Like it's the same exact crow, like since that time and stuff. So I never could break down those barriers and stuff. But I basically skated for a long time. And I owned a skate company and it kind of like put on events around the world. So I have a local organizers around the world and stuff. And we'd film them. And then I would do all these different like different type of sections and skate videos

and trick tips and day in the lives and like had all these series and stuff. It was just like a ton of content. I don't really think about it photographically. Right. And in retrospect, it's not really, I don't consider it like being a cinematographer. I guess you can classify it as like that sport cinematography because at the end of the day,

you're just trying to make the trick look cool. Right. You know, it's just trying to make the coolest looking like angle to make the trick look best. You're not trying to make people feel anything. You're not saying anything really with it and stuff. You're not telling any sort of story. The story is, you know, he's doing, you know, whatever.

You know, yeah, he's 540ing, like. like the 10 flat 10. Get the best angle of him 540 and the 10 flat 10, you know? So like I didn't really know what it was. And then I was working at this, this elementary school, it's private school that I went to as a kid. And like my mother was the head of admissions there.

And she got me the job. And I was just doing like video work for the school. Like basically just marketing videos for the school. Like the kids like learning in class and stuff to show to the parents and showed a prospective parents. And I was always. like, I always liked cameras. I was like kind of interested. I always like that sort of feeling of like that you get when you, you would watch movies because I watched so many movies over the

course of time. And you get this feeling, you know, you get this feeling from these like images and stuff. Maybe it was like the way the light was hitting or maybe it was the music and combination. I'd have this like little like electrical shock like through my body, you know, and stuff. And so I think that was like unconsciously my first sort of glimpse into what cinematography and like what cinema in general can do for you, you know? And, you know, I'm working at the school and I'm doing this stuff. And like, I kind of get how composition works in terms of saying something with the frame. And like I just naturally am doing OTS and stuff and like framing stuff in a certain way.

And I was also doing like after school sports and games with the kiddos and stuff. And just like, you know, making sure they were entertained and they didn't kill each other basically with the job. And it's so turned out that Janush's kids were some of the kids that I was. like looking after at the school. And someone was my mom actually pointed him out. She said, I know, I think you said you want to be a cinematographer and you've been working on these like little projects at like AFI or whatever. You know, you should talk to Janush over there, you know, in that car, you know.

And so I went up to Janusz's window. I think he was like, he was driving a beamer or something. And I go up to his window, I go, hey, I know who you are, you're Janush Kaminsky. You know? and I knew who he kind of was and stuff because like Sawyer, Spilberg, he had went to the same elementary school,

he was like a few years behind me and stuff, but as far as cinematographers, actually knowing them and stuff, he was one of the ones I kind of knew, but I only recognized him and stuff because my mom was like, he's over there. Yeah, yeah. I went up to his window, I said,

hey, you know, I really want to be a cinematographer. I'm shooting these videos for the school. I think I had said, I'm really good with camera movement because I can roller play with the camera, you know? Which I guess today, like, because I'll do it sometimes for my jobs and stuff. And I guess it is like a whole, like, it's a whole thing now and stuff. But I didn't know anything about camera movement at all, you know?

And so I show my work. He goes, oh, why don't you come on set? I got this commercial, you know, at the LA Coliseum for Panasonic and come on set and see how you like it. And I knew nothing. Like, I knew absolutely like nothing about being on set. So I showed up, like, dressed really nicely. Like, good. You know, like, like, dressed really nicely, like, had this, like, nice leather jacket and stuff.

And I'm hanging around the ACs. The first, first AC I was with was this guy, Jeff. And he was like, so I was like, yeah, I was like, I know a little bit about cameras, like, but not like that much and stuff. And, like, not any of this stuff. And I didn't know anything because, like, a good example was, Janush was like, hey, Quinny, like, I'd love a cup of coffee. And so I didn't know like what craft services was. Like I just saw craft services. It was near like where the agency was.

But I didn't know like that I was allowed to go over there and stuff. So what I did was sprinted up the stairs of the Coliseum, out the Coliseum, across the parking lot to the food trucks outside on the sidewalk and then demanded that they give me a cup of coffee because like those were the trucks I saw coming into the job. So I assume they were like for the job. And I just demanded a cup of coffee from them and stuff. and like I just thought they were part of the job so I didn't even pay for the coffee and they're like we're kind of closed down and stuff but here's like a half cup of coffee right so I like I run back to yunuch I go hey I got your coffee but they're closing up shop and it takes a 70 goes this is really good coffee quiddy but you know next time you just go to craft services right there jeez I mean for like quote unquote mistakes it's not terrible yeah in the grand scheme of things right didn't it didn't cost any money and stuff you know or like Jeff asked me to to go get the hoodman. And I was like, and he's like, yeah, it's a little boxy thing for the mind that looks like this, you know.

And I fucking rip through the truck, like rip through it. And so I'm just like, where is this thing? Where is this boxy thing that goes on the monitors? And they're calling me on the walk. They're like, Quinn, where is the hoodman? You've been back there for 20 minutes. All we need is a hoodman. I go, I can't find it.

And he comes there and he like, there's like a card on the truck, right? And he just goes, right here it says hoodman on it. And I go, well, that's flat. That isn't the boxing thing on the monitor. Okay? So you said the boxing thing on the monitor. I don't know that shit folds up, bro. So I just knew, I knew nothing.

But I like was willing to work as hard as I could, which basically meant like on this particular shoot, carrying the 17-inch monitor with the C-stand and B&C up hundreds of stairs to wherever they were shooting at all times. And so I did that, stayed to the very end, like ended up in the tent on the same. second day with Janush and this DIT is really good Lonnie Danler. And like we leave like I kind of see him tweaking stuff in there. It was like kind of right when the epic came out. He was shooting like

Technocrine epic. Then they had like a hundred yard dolly track with like a phantom like HD Gold. And then they had another epic. It was like, it was a big thing, you know? And I was like just thinking, wow, this is this seems fun. I wouldn't mind doing this. It seems like a good time. It's a nice $7 million commercial for the weekend. And I left, like, and Yonni's just like, all right, well, I'm glad you like it. And like you stayed the whole time and stuff. You know, we, I have another commercial next week with like,

with Max Winkler, you want to come on that. Came on that. Did a good job on that or, you know, didn't like, you know, break anything. And he was like, he was like, all right. He's like, well, he's like, just, you can't repeat for me now and just, you know, we make sure you get paid and stuff. You can't repeat for me. And then after about a year of that, he referred.

me as a DP, which I was surprised about the time, referred me as a DP to this like kind of director, fashion designer, Liz Goldwyn, who was Tony Goldwyn's sister and Tony Goldwyn was like directing a commercial, the Yannes was shooting. I did like an art piece for her.

That was like kind of my first real project. It was like, it seemed like it was a solid budget of like 150 grand art film that she was doing this big installation, kind of like a living old brothel. And like did that piece and then kind of just kept shooting like small stuff on the side of like camera painting for yannush and then occasionally

if yonush had like a c or a d camera like he started letting me operate if the shots were easy enough um and then he would have me come on as like he came me had me come on this new york times project is like like a c camera operator and i did like that for like a second and like just like kind of gaffing, like, actual sort of more real stuff on the side. But my work as a deep piece still sucked. Like, I was, like, always, I always find taste, you know, to be, like, a really important thing. And I would look at Janush's work and I would look at my work.

And I'd be like, why does my work suck in comparison to Yonich, you know? Don't we all? I think we've all had that question. Yeah. I mean, like, honestly, and like, the thing is, I think maybe we've all in terms of, like, Our community of like the DPs that works like in these worlds and stuff where people spend significant money doing these projects, right? If you actually think of the grand scheme of like how many people want to be filmmakers,

how many people like aspirations are doing stuff. Like most of them, a lot of those people don't ever look at their work and be like and reflect on it. And I constantly was just looking at my work. Sure. Like my work is just like not good because I remember hitting up Vincent Haycock on Instagram. I was like, oh, I'd really love to work with you. It would be so awesome work with you and not getting a response and stuff. And then looking at my work and going, why in the fuck would he hire me? What's in it for him? You know? Like, I don't bring any value to him and stuff.

It's like, yeah, I really want to work with them and stuff. But it's just risk for him. So I just didn't hear back from him. And the projects I was doing and the directors I was working with at the time, like in my first sort of like four years, a lot of them cared more about just being seen as directors on Instagram and like Facebook. And they didn't really care about the work. And I only cared about the work. I wanted the work to be like so good that like if my name was mentioned, it was because the work was good,

not because I like was seeing doing the work, you know, and like not seeing like the finished product. And so I did like, I did like these projects for these directors and stuff. And I was just like, my work should like, I should be able to like,

produce a really nice portrait close-up, and it should be able to be, like, in the same league of Janish. It should be able to be in the same sort of realm and stuff, because he may have, like, half a million-dollar lighting packages sometimes, but I don't need a half-a-million-dollar lighting package to make a close-up look good. I just need to, like, figure out how to do it. I need to, like, figure out the technique and, like, the creative endeavor and stuff to make it look a certain way and make people feel something from the shot. And I started noticing, like, glimpses of that, you know, like three to four years in. And sometimes I'd show it to Janish and he never thought that they were very good and stuff, which is fair. You know, like, he basically,

like, he would even put, he'd just text me, okay, and then nothing else. Or he would critique me and say like, and he would give me one line and stuff. I remember at a project like five years ago I sent to him and he was like, he was like horrible composition here, Quinney. Like, pick a fucking horizon, like either, either pick the ground or pick the sky, like make up your mind. Right. You know, and stuff. And we kind of like critique me, which was nice of him to critique me. Like, it was nice to take the time to watch and stuff.

And I was looking for like, and I knew like once I did a project that he was impressed by and stuff, like it would be a big day because he would be honest about it. But I stopped working with basically all those directors. And Janusz was always shooting on film. And so I decided like I want to shoot on film too. I don't care like that everyone's shooting digital. I want to show on film. It was like 2016.

And I like, I did this little. music video on Super 16. I just loaded and shot at myself. Like I had a focus puller, but I mean like basically like the night sequences like I was like live at like a five six under these lights and stuff. And then I was like, you know, shooting at like a T-22. You know, for the

daylight stuff. So I was like we really need a focus polar really like for this like these zoom things and stuff. It turned out like I loved how it turned down. I was like I'm going to do my own documentary series on film and I'm going to like I made it like it call it was called Beautiful's Future and it basically went to different types of people

and different types of couples from different cultures and asked them what their definition of beauty was in their lives. And it basically gave me a way of doing what I wanted visually, like shooting on different formats of film and experimenting with that visually and like getting like people

to talk about something that was like emotionally like visceral and close to them. So it wasn't like a hardcore narrative and I was focusing more on the visuals themselves and building those, but it gave me an opportunity to do something that I could control the outcome. And so I did that, and Kodak had hit me up to release it on their page when they just had started putting people's work, like on their Instagrams, on their socials. And they posted that and then film supply, like, hit me up and was like,

hey, we'd love to, like, rep you for, you know, licensing and stuff because we really like that documentary. And then I had a Vincent Haycock after this, like, like little music video, I had some of these like rare super 60 animorphics from Panavision that at the time were like off-manu animorphics. And I hit Vincent Haycock up and I got a response. You know? And it was a moment.

Like it was like, fuck yeah. Yeah. You know, and he was like in London, but he was like, I'd love to do something sometime. You know, I wish I was there and stuff. Like I would totally go and just shoot something and stuff. But it was nice like to like have like three years earlier me hit up someone that was a work I really liked and come to the realization that my work. work's not good enough for him to, it's not waste his time for him to like risk anything with

his career. I'm not adding any value. I'm just, I have the aspirations to do it and stuff, but I'm not adding any value. And then like five years in, six years in like going like and just DEPing and being like, okay, like now I know my work is good. I'm not questioning my work and no one else is questioning my work. And like that's when like I kind of started like being to like be a DEP and stuff. And it wasn't until about 2021. I did this music video on Super 60 Anamorphic for Grace and Chance. That was the first compliment I ever got from Yanush. I got, he like was like, well, this is, this is just beautiful work. This is just absolutely beautiful work. Everything works. Everything is just beautiful, Quini, and stuff. I almost cried, like, because it was,

it was 10 years, you know, since I had met Janush. And then that was the first genuine, like, compliment stuff, because he gets, he sees so much work and people are always asking us for his opinion. So I knew his opinion was real when he finally, like, you know, had a very positive review about a project that I did. And yeah, that's how I know Janush and stuff. And I'd done

some, like, some job with him, like, about a year ago with some other people and stuff. It's like Scorsese directed, like, long form, like, doc. And, like, he had brought everyone out to shoot this, like, this, like, concert thing. So it was, like, I had this crazy 75-pound, like, Han-Hodrig, like, deadlifting, shooting, like, portraits of Eric Clapton while, like, Mitch

Duben was, like, on a techno crane, and Mari Fiori was on another techno crane, and Polly Morgan was on a fucking dolly, and, like, it was just, like, this huge, gigantic thing. Yonush screaming at everyone, you know, but it's, but yeah, but that's the Yannish story and stuff. So, I mean, like, technically, yeah, like, I put Yonish on there and stuff, because technically I did, like, do some sec unit stuff that he was, like, directing and DPEing, like, during my time with him and stuff, like, just kind of, like, like, you know, see, creatively like doing it and stuff. But like that's why he's on there, you know.

Gotcha. What do you think about your work for, well, so before I get to that, I was just rereading Masters of Light, you know, the interviews of TV's. And I think it was the chapter where the do-doos shot Jaws, John, something, where he was saying that like, you have to be your, worst critic. Yeah. Where it's, I,

I remember highlighting, like, the whole fucking paragraph because he was just like, you know, you, no one's, they don't, no one cares. It's either good or it's bad. And so no one's going to sit there and tell you, like,

oh, do this, like, you have to be the one that is the one that changes it. And so for you, what, what, what changes were you making to, that you,

where you were going like, right, now this is good. now. Was it like strictly composition? Were you getting more into lighting? Like, what were those adjustments? I think it was the lighting thing. I think early on and stuff when I'd like showed yonage my work, he said compositionally you seem to have, you seem to understand composition to a certain extent and stuff. But he goes, your lighting is terrible. It was terrible. I mean, lighting is really hard to do, you know? Um, so it was lighting. I think I noticed it. I shot this

like, um, this like dance, like sort of concept like film and we had this guy walking through this hallway and I forget what we were shooting. I think maybe we were shooting on mini S-4s or something. And I saw like this like top light just sort of like soft flare into the lens in this like really beautiful way. And I just like you just kind of knew it. Like you know that like you can feel in your bones. You can feel in your stomach and the pit of your stomach. I kind of feel in the pit of my stomach when it happens and stuff. But it's like that was the first moment where I was like this is the shot right here. Like this shot just like really works. You know, this is like, and that's when I kind of knew like, now I need to find ways where I can like do this more purposefully. Like I

can get this effect from the get go and stuff as opposed to just in the middle of a project and stuff. And that's when I started focusing much more on lighting and much more on, much more on like why I was doing things. Yeah. You know, as opposed to like I saw Yon just do this and stuff. I'll do it on the smaller scale. You know? Like, where it just like, it didn't really,

it didn't translate as well. Because I didn't, like, I didn't know how to manipulate it, you know? And it was like, and I started, that's like,

and at that point, it was like, I hadn't started doing like my own work really yet. I was still like doing the jobs I was doing like corporate stuff or whatever, but I wasn't doing the jobs I really wanted to do. And it was like, I was making an okay living. Like,

I remember making like a pretty good living, actually in the grand scheme of things is like someone in their 20-somethings. but I was like, well, if I'm just going to do this, and it's like, I'm going to do this work and stuff that I don't even find to be like creatively fulfilling or like artistic and fulfilling, or I'm not even having fun doing, why don't I just go do any other job that makes money?

Like, why I just go be a lawyer? Like, if I'm really just after money, then like, why I just go do this? But I was after doing the work I wanted to do and stuff. So it was like quitting doing that stuff and not working with those directors and doing what I wanted to. It was a big thing because you go from like, you know, whatever 80 grand a year or something and stuff,

then all of a sudden it's like, now I've got to get by on like 10 grand because I'm not making any more money and I'm spending all my money on film. Yep. You know, and like shooting on film and getting all these like rare stocks off eBay and getting into that whole like that whole game.

And so it's like I'm, and I'm lucky to a certain extent too because people are always hitting me up also for like advice on Instagram or they want me to look at their work or they want to meet up or something. And I always give them advice, but I always say like, hey, like also keep in mind that like, I'm from L.A. Like, I'm born and raised here. My entire family lives here. Like, I'm like fourth

generation here. And so I don't have, like, I'm lucky enough and like self-aware enough that like, I'm aware that I have some sort of safety net, you know? Like, I'm not going to be on the street. Like, I could like be back on my parents or like they could loan me money. And it's not lost upon me when I'm giving these people advice that may be from like a totally different continent and they need to make money in order to even be here or they're on a certain visa and they have to like be able to work and stuff. So I just say like just like my advice is coming from this is what I would do if I was in your situation. But I can't necessarily empathize completely with your situation and stuff because I haven't lived that situation. And I had a very like different thing and stuff. You know, like on the

flip side like academia was incredibly difficult for me. School was not a happy time in my life. anyway. It was like, you know, basically just 10 years of tutoring and just getting through it and stuff. I mean, like, my parents took me to Mastros for like a victory steak dinner because I got a D minus in chemistry. Shit. You know, we cannot believe you pass. I said, I think it's just I begged my way. Like, on that one, you know? But, you know, so like when I found this like thing that I had like sort of a knack for that I was really interested in, you know, it was kind of a blessing because, you know,

Roller playing wasn't really paying the bills. I would be making some money sometimes, but I wasn't like, there's no way to make like the living like off of that. You know, it wasn't like skateboarding where there were certain people that you could make like hundreds of thousands of dollars or like, you know, millions of dollars. It just wasn't like the sport wasn't like that anymore by the time I got to a certain point. And even if it was, I like, I wasn't like in the top 10 people. So it would have been like near impossible anyway.

You know? So when I found this thing, I was really like really blessed and happy about it. Yeah, it is hard to give people actionable advice because everyone's situation is different. And especially in any art form, it's like there is a reason why a lot of like the most successful artists, you know, have like rich parents or whatever it may be. It's like because you need it. We, at least in America, we don't have like the same type of. artists grants and stuff that like even Canada has where they'll be like yeah we'll just find some cool artists and give them you know France they'll be like let's just give them like 10,000 dollars to shoot a

short we have the art we want like artists to thrive no it's not we we want artists to thrive here if you're making a ton of money because it's capitalism all the way and stuff and if you don't then we don't really care like it's not really not really our problem yeah the uh totally different thing To your point about the rollerblading thing, my buddy from, I grew up in the Bay Area, and back home, he became a, he still is a relatively successful skateboarders. He was Walker, Ryan. And he found an old, like, I don't know what you would call it, reward sheet from his sponsor. And it was, I think it was like his skateboard sponsor. And it was like how much they would give for placement in every magazine.

So it would be like, you know, Thrasher, cover 1,500 bucks, two-page spread, 500 bucks, like, whatever, whatever. And then smaller magazines would get less and less and less. And then at the bottom it says video slash web, zero. And it's like, damn, things have changed. Yeah, right? And of course, the shoe or whatever had to be. like dead center right if it was like somewhat in the shot that didn't count shit i would love to even be in that world and stuff i was not i was like you do well like i need my sponsor i was easy

to do with my sponsors like my shop sponsor like because i didn't even i liked wearing skates down until there was fucking holes in them i don't know what it was i just i just like that's very hockey player of you i would get like new pair of skates like every fucking like three years they didn't care i cost them almost nothing and i would i would skate all the time, film all the time. So, yeah, but I mean, like, yeah, the, the money thing is so low, like, in rollerblank at that point, like, and it still is now. Like, you know, I still, like, I don't, I'll rollerblade, like, 30 miles or something

just, like, as a workout, you know, but I'm not jumping on rails anymore. It's just not, you know, not my, it's not my life anymore. I did it once, like, not too long ago, and I just, like, remembered, like, grinding the rail just being like, I'm just scared. Yeah, that's enough. Yeah. I'm just like terrified that if I fall, I'm not going to be able to do all the other stuff I love.

When back in the day, I was like, I only love this. I don't give a fuck if I fall. Right. You know, so. I was just, I've been snowboarded my whole life. And I,

um, this past winter, I, I never fall. Like, all, like, I don't need,

I'll fall down technically, but it's not like a, a crash. Yeah. And, uh, the winter was terrible this year. And we were in steamboat and it was just all ice.

And I don't know if you've ever snowboarded, but when you see ice, it's like better to just go fast. You know, if you start trying to manipulate it. So I, I'm just hauling ass. And the second I hit shadow,

I can't see anything. And I'm like, uh-oh. And then the second I thought, uh-oh, I like caught an edge and just like, I probably, I was spinning on the ground.

like nose over tail so much that I had enough time to think, wow, this is a long fall. Like I had a fully complete sentence in my head. Like I wonder when this is going to end. And like pulled my hip out of the joint. I'm pretty sure because I couldn't walk for like three days. And then that when that healed, I could tell that I had like a bruised or cracked rib.

And I was just. That's a bummer. And I'm like 36 years old. And I'm like, okay, I should not go out on shitty. I think I've, I now I get it like when old heads are like, no,

I'm not going out today. And you're like, come on, we're only here for a weekend or whatever. They're like, no, I know. Just got to look at the conditions and be like,

no, that's going to kill me, actually. Yeah, yeah, no. I, yeah,

I had this, like, dude, I got hurt snowboarding last year, actually. Like, I was, it was like,

snowing pretty heavily. I'm like, also like, every, like, I'm pretty activities driven. Like, I like traveling around.

Like I'll go play beach volleyball for like eight hours still like on days off. Like, you know, I'll go surf and stuff. But like some of my surf friends are like, oh, yo, it's 10 feet at county line. I'll be like, all right, well, awesome. Have fun. I'm not going out. But it's 10 feet. Like, I'm out there like trying to like catch a good ride, not like feeling like I'm out there in survival mode.

Yeah. That's not what I want to do. And I'm saying with snowboarding. Like I'll rock a black diamond or something like and I'll have a good time on that and stuff. I'm not doing jumps. Like I already had my days of doing incredibly dangerous shit and like that being my whole entire life. Like now I just want to do things like and when I get to a certain point of things honestly, I usually like stop doing that thing and like go pick up something else.

I actually kind of like being bad at stuff now because you when you're bad at something, you can feel the progression like really like highly, you know. But once you start getting good at it, that progression is very incremental. And way more difficult. And way more difficult. all and like I just and I don't have the same like I don't have the guts to just have the same sort of like I don't give a buck you know like let's just do this I remember like my friend Ted who is like a really good snowboard a snowboard instructor and man it took me on a double black diamond I told him the whole time I said I don't want to do this I don't want to do this run please do not make me do this run and we get on this double back diamond like one of those things like with those huge moguls and cliffs on both sides below the chairliss that almost no one's on and of course it's icy as shit and I'm just like I'm like I hate you Ted Like, I have no way of getting down this thing. Like, and he goes, yeah, this is, I mean, this is worse than I looked from the chairlift.

And I go, but I, but even if it was the best possible thing, I don't want to be here. Like, this is not where I want to be. I'm on vacation. And I'm like, I'm stuck on a mountain now. And I'm going to have to, like, basically, like, get frostbite on my ass in order to, like, get down this hill. Yeah. So, yeah, I don't, I don't, I love, like, trying new things and, like, I love going snowboarding and stuff. But, yeah, I caught an edge last year and stuff.

and I just came and just whiplash myself. I thought I, like, I was fucked up for about two weeks. Luckily, I was only fucked up for two weeks. Yeah, that's a good concussion. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Luckily, like I said, I've been doing it my whole life. So, like, terrain doesn't, I can pretty much.

I don't do jumps anymore for sure. Like, I'll hit a rail everyone. A small jump, you know, like a side hit or something, but certainly not. I mean, yeah. Yeah, but that's different. Because you're like, you're like, you know it the same way I know roller playing. like well if I like like yeah it's like walking like I'll like I can like I went a 435 like like last year at one point and stuff and I'm like I'm tracking with it and stuff like backwards downstairs because it's just like it'd be easier like it'd be harder to walk backwards down these stairs yeah yeah I saw you know I saw a clip on your Instagram of you like yeah like skating backwards tracking someone I think down like a hill and my first thought was like were you pissed when you saw that winning time back behind the scenes footage and you're like

that could have been me oh no i'm not not todd i love todd's a friend i love i love i love todd manhanzal like he's a good dude and stuff i like john too i kind of grew up skating with john in a way he's from um not buffalo uh rochester i think he's from rochester is he i don't know he's from upstate somewhere um but uh but that's like his thing like he loves to do that stuff you know like he like He loves, like, that's like, he's like a stunt man, like, some of the time. And he's a camera operator some of the time. And, like, he's an actor some of the time. Like, that's kind of like his world and stuff.

And he, you know, I was hyped to see him do it on winning man and stuff. Our winning time. I would have done it, I guess. But at the same time, like, I really like being a DP. Like, I have no aspirations to direct, like, occasionally I'll direct in DP, like, my own projects just, like, because I want to make something. But, like, as far as, like, as a career or, like, doing, like, doing, like, jobs like I just want to DP I don't want to do anything else like I have no sort of desire to anything else if if I'm in a rollerblade operate honestly like I'll do it because I'm one of the

guys who could like drop in like backwards into a skate park and stuff it doesn't really have like an issue you know right there's a couple of us like me and john like so our guy Sam law like used to skate as well he can do it as a steady cam operator but there's not generally speaking a lot of people that can do that and stuff so occasionally I might do it but honestly it's mostly like when I'm already DEPing, production will tack on, like, I did a noble commercial, I did some rollerblaying shots. They tacked on, like, extra couple grand.

And I, like, you know, I rollerblade operated and didn't need to hire anyone else. Right. But, yeah, but now John's dope. John likes is really dope. Earlier you had mentioned, you know, the doing the work versus being seen doing the work. Yeah.

But in today's world, it does feel like, you know, first it was actors. needed 50,000 followers. And now it's like every, you know. And I was wondering what, how that like having it, especially I think having an Instagram that's full of film, celluloid film, you know, how much that has affected the work that you get.

Like how much, obviously your portfolio is great, but how much effect does that actually have on your job getting this? What time? Yeah. Yeah. unfortunately, you know, a ton, but I think I started posting like BTS and like stuff of gear, you know, about like a year ago, year and a half ago.

I didn't think much of it. Like, I guess I was like so like sort of just enjoying the moment of the process. That's like a big thing for me is like being in the moment enjoying like where you are and like the thing you're doing and not thinking about the next thing. I was thinking about that and I was thinking about the end product of the actual like stuff and then like if I was posting that stuff it was because it was the

end product you know and that was like the thing and I but I posted like some BTS of some like cool rigs that I had done because I just thought they were cool and yeah I mean like they just got hit up a ton and like reshared a ton and so I was just like well I guess people like it so I guess I'll I'll share some of this stuff on Instagram and it does get you noticed by you know other directors and other producers and, you know, in a way and stuff, they're looking at it also from the point of to be like, oh, he's done the thing that I think we're going to want to do on this project. And like, I know he's done the thing and stuff because I don't have to guess it just from the work.

I can look at like, because there's all this BTS stuff and all this, and all this different stuff like that. And then also the same thing with, with film supply. Like, you know, like film supply has been great because, you know, they sell footage and stuff. And, you know, I make money off that. It's actually like motivated me to just try stuff. That quite frankly, I probably wouldn't be able to try like commercials or, you know, like music videos for the most part and stuff until I have like proof of it and stuff.

So it's like if I tell right, you know, the production or whatever, the agency and stuff like, like yeah, let's like, let's flash the mag. Like I'll open up the mag and flash the film a little bit and stuff. And they'll be like, not on our fucking dime, you won't. Right. And but if I can be like, they can be like, well, what is it going to look like and stuff? Now I can just back, well, it looks like this. This is what I did it.

Like, this is what it is and stuff. And I know it's going to look like this. And then it gives me like, you know, a leg up and stuff. Like when they can go on my Instagram and be like, okay, this is what it's going to look like when we when like because he wants to push, you know, whatever 16 millimeter three stops or something, you know. I just try different stuff. Like I'm always like trying to build the image in different ways. And like I want to give each project its own identity. You know, I don't necessarily like I don't want.

one project you do to be exactly like the next. I always want some sort of unique element for each one and stuff because every director has their own voice and stuff. And I know they're coming to me for a reason, you know, but I try to like, I want to adapt to each project and I want to adapt to each director. I want to bring like bringing your style into and stuff is always going to be there.

You're always going to bring a little bit of yourself into it. You know, there's no escaping yourself. You know, it's always going to be there. You know, and that's great. but I really like to try to find ways like unique ways of like building the image or telling the story when it kind of works and I think like kind of posting like that stuff I think it does help overall it's not necessarily something that I think is like the best thing for like that you have to be able to like you have to like have a big Instagram following you know because it's not really what like

I mean it's not really what defines good work you know there's a lot of people with big Instagram followings and stuff that have shitty work you know but it's like I find that people do react to it and stuff and I have gotten jobs from it before so I'm not going to like not do it and stuff and I've met some some really good directors and some really good people like when they noticed you know like I put like a broadcast zoom on you know 35 mil camera though I saw it saw that shot that was really great. And then I saw the shot and we worked really well. And I was like, and it kind of excites me.

Some of that stuff excites me because like I love that setup. Like my ACs fucking despise that set up. Sure, yeah. But I love that setup. I love that setup. That combination is so cool because you have this broadcast zoom that's used to like shoot football games. The glass has like no look to it at all.

It's just can crazy, crazy sharp glass with no look. but then you're putting it on 35 millimeter that has inherently like a softer look and you literally like you can go to the end of this thing with the doubleer you got like a 3,000 mil on a portrait of someone's face and it's totally sharp

and the image isn't like the image is resolving perfectly something that you could never get on say like you know whatever like a long range zoom or whatever with a doubler on it like yeah and zoom or like even Panavision Zoom like I shot with the 42 to 425 on this like

Black Keys thing a while back and we had a doubler on it and stuff and at the end of it and stuff it was like it was like unusable yeah because it's just like it's just so soft you know because like that glass has a great look but if you're at the end of these lenses and stuff to go from like a 3,000 mil out to like a 16 mill or something it's just not possible you know and uh Greg hunt the director because originally we're going to use that 50 to 1,000 cannon zoom which is like a good lens in its own right but he was like if this is as wise we can get this isn't going to work and stuff and I said, well, we only got one option. I've never done it before, but I know you can do it, and it's, we got to put one of those broadcast zooms on. You know, those things are cheap.

And it kind of came to be. Oh, yeah, super cheap. Super, super cheap. Yeah, I think it was 3,500 a day for one of those things. Yeah, but it was, um, but I, this is a beautiful combination. It was one of my favorite combinations, even though it's a 60 pound lens. It just, you know, it was, it turned out really, it turned out really pretty. And it was like, it was something, that Greg actually had suggested to the agency, and he kind of came up with it. And we did those wonderers. And then, like, from all the Adidas, like, campaigns

in the past year and stuff, they started doing these long Zoom oneers and stuff. And I have to attribute it to Greg, you know, coming up with that idea. And me just wanted to be like, yeah, that's exactly what I've always wanted to do something like that. It is funny how, I don't think a lot of people understand that the whole, like,

reason we have all these crazy sharp lenses is because people were still shooting film because you can see like the sharpness curve the second digital came out everyone was like

detune, detune, detune, detune, detune, detune, de tune, de tune. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh no, no, no. Yeah. Well, it's why they stopped making the, like, because Panavision has these, uh,

these D-series anamorphics that they didn't complete, basically. There's a 40-mill and a 50-mell. I think that 40-mills actually like one of the best animorphic lens ever made. I don't even get it how it has the specs that it has. You know, and it can be that small.

We were using it when we were prepping for this film called Lips Like Sugar. They ended up not coming through. But we were doing like camera tests and we were testing those lenses. It was like, how come they never like, how come they never finish the D series? How come like just and it's because after the C series came out and they were working on the D series, cinematographers are like, yeah, we want sharp randomorphics. We need sharp randomorphics with that like have faster T-stop so we can actually shoot at and stuff so we can resolve on the big screen.

And I was like, yeah, it makes a lot of sense because the E series are significantly sharper than the C series. Yeah. You know, and so it started to like, like, and that's why, you know, and it's like, I guess I knew it like before that, but I also was just like, oh, bummer, like, because those D series are fucking sick.

Well, at least you know that, because then, you know, I feel like nowadays, especially everyone's got to have something that they can, like little, not secret sauce necessarily, but just something that they can be like, I know the solution, you know, versus that era of like everyone shooting Alexa Mini with the cooks.

You know, it's like, it's like that that SpongeBob mean, we're like, oh, adventurous today, are we? Do you find, yeah, I mean, oh, go ahead. I was going to say, do you find that shooting is kind of another jobs question, but like, I got to, I went to this New York Film Academy like summer program when I was

teenager and they had us all shooting 16 because this is like 2000 2008 maybe um lucky it was great no i mean like learning on 16 was and i met all these amazing people uh many of whom are successful in their own fields but one of the guys there was this dude todd martin who now uh shoots yeah i know who he's only film yeah and uh i was like shit like looking back on it. I was like, they, they, they taught us how to shoot film. And then we all went to college and shot DVXs. And it like, I haven't talked to Todd in a really long time. But like, I'm one, like, it seems like he went like, they taught me film. I'm going to shoot film. He was also very good. Like, we all shot stuff and it looked fine. His stuff did look better.

Todd's work. Tows work is like freaking incredible. Yeah. And so he definitely had like, he knew what he was doing. But I'm wondering from your perspective, like, does being a, a sort of quote unquote film cinematographer I guess for lack of a better turn like help you jump the line like do people only hire you to shoot film do you feel like people they see that and they go oh he's like a real DP

you know yeah no I mean I I shoot film probably on like half my jobs per year sometimes it's a little more sometimes a little less kind of and you own your own past package, right? I do want a couple packages, yeah, yeah. I do want a couple packages.

But, I mean, typically, like, when we're, it's weird. I'm either shooting film on a very, like, well-budgeted project, or I'm shooting film on a really under-budgeted project. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, that's just kind of how it is. So I think film has a really special place in my heart. I mean, like, I think there's all these different, like, reasons that people shoot film, you know? They shoot it for one

reason or another, based off the project, I do the same. The general reason of why everyone's so attracted to film or why audiences just feel a certain way when they're watching film is because we as like human beings as a civilization, like film is what's documented our existence for the past like over 100 years. Way before digital was even a thing. If film was never a thing and digital was the thing the whole entire time. We'd probably have this like attachment to digital and we'd like film would have come out and been like, oh this is cool but it's really hard. It's kind of cool.

It'd be like this whole thing. Yeah, right? And so like that's why we're attached to it. So it's like when I think like I want somebody to be more romantic and stuff and so I want to shoot it on 16 mil or I want to shoot on three perf or something. It's like the the detail or like the reason of like to romanticize it is because I'm thinking about like some sort of thing I saw like a while ago romantically or some memory

of like romance in my life and stuff and it's coming up as a film strip basically like in my head or like I'm seeing it like back in the day and old movies and like it's on film and so that's like why like that's why shooting on film is still like so effective

for audiences you know and so effective storytelling wise and stuff it simply comes from the fact that like we as humans experience all these different emotions and all these different emotions were documented on film. And thus, when we want to express a certain emotion

and certain reason for shooting a project on film, we're reaching back to, like, you know, these memories and stuff that we, like, you know, basically in, like, took in on cellulide. And so I think that, like, with film, you can do a lot more, you can manipulate a lot more. It gives you a much more, like, visceral feeling. but I think digital is awesome too

and you can do a lot of stuff digitally and I shoot digital all the time and I never want a director to not hire me because we have to shoot digital like because we can still like do some great things digitally it's like I will say though I get asked to make digital look like film all the time

I never get asked to make film look like digital right you know and those are kind of like what I stand by is like no one's saying to me like hey we got to overexpose this negative even pull some stops. I don't want to see any grain and I want the cut. Like I need this to feel like like we shoot it on Alexa. No one would ever say that. You know, it's just like it doesn't make any sense. Like, you know, I'm like, or at least I haven't come across it. So, but I mean, I think for me, like there's so many different formats of film. There's not like a bunch of different formats of

digital really. I mean, there's like a couple, but it's all based off of, I mean, it's all based off of film, you know, it's like super 35 sensor, a full frame sensor, vis division sensor. You know, It's like, it all comes from film. I just think there's more things to do on the negative in film. And I think you can get, like, you can get a really clean 16 millimeter image. You just have to know how to expose the stock correctly. Or like, you need to know what you're going to do in the lab. And like, you know, or like, I think about like, okay, if this is going to be just shown on Instagram and stuff,

and we really want people to feel it and stuff, then maybe it's worthwhile to, like, shoot it on 500 the whole entire time on 16 and push one stop and bring the grain out a little bit more. So the grain can be felt because, Instagram. Instagram's algorithm is going to compress the grain in a certain way and stuff. And if we push it a little bit and stuff, that grain will actually come out a little bit more. It won't get, it won't get compressed and start to like band or something. You know, we just have to treat it a certain way. I think that film, like, touches people a lot more in the digital age. Yeah.

Well, and something I've noticed, too, to your points about, like, romanticism is, I think for those of us who are, you know, older than the kids. the we think of film but I'm seeing more and more and more people like buying you know like VHS cameras are like expensive on eBay now mini DVV is expensive because that's their touch point you know they look at they feel romanticism over highate and so I and I'm starting to see it come out in ads you know people shoot they'll shoot regular Alexa and then they'll have someone there with some mini dv camera to shoot like specialty shots or like just rando kind of b-roll and i think it's really fast and also kind of cool that now that now that you can have a digital image that is comparable to what the best film would look like you know more or less that we can choose formats to taste and it's not like a necessity you know like in the dvx days and whatever there there was no shot it was going to like whenever people talk about the quote unquote the film look today.

I think they're borrowing verbiage that we were using when we were trying to make tape look like film or even early digital look like film. When we said that, we didn't mean like celluloid. We meant good. We're trying to get the film look. We just meant good, not celluloid. Yeah, yeah, exactly, right? Because I'd pump the, like occasionally I left it like some of the 16 glass.

Like I just shot a short film and I was like, yo, I think we should shoot this in Super 16 mode like on the mini. Like I just, I think we should shoot Super 16 mode on the mini. I don't even want to get Alexa 35. I don't want extra range in the highlights. I want the highlights to like be on the edge of clipping. And then I'll pump the ISO like we'll shoot the whole thing at 1600 or more.

And like it won't, it'll look in the like sort of spirit of 16 mail, but it won't be 16 mil. and the lenses, like I own like an optics 4 millimeter. Nice. The lens I just love because it's such a crazy ass lens. I mean, it's not even a focus ring on the thing. I've had people put their nose on the glass and I can still see everything around them, you know? And it's pretty like, as far as it's pretty rectangular lens, like, you know, for how crazy wide it is.

I think it's the widest super 16 lens that was ever made. And, you know, but I actually like that lens better Super 16 mode on the mini because the lens is so low. contrast, you know, that like when you actually combine it with a digital sensor, so it's awesome. The flares that I get from this thing is like, they're insane. I got it for like $4,500 from Alan Gordon. And then like the next like two years, people were off to me like 12 Gs for it. And I was like, there's no way I'm getting rid of this thing. I mean, I want to sell it because it's good business, but there's not a shot I sell this thing ever. Yeah. It's just at least until the coding wears so far down that I can't see out of it anymore, you know? But I don't

when that's going to be. The flares on it like are just like they're so beautiful. It's like I've never seen anything even like it. There's like two different flares you get from the same light and stuff depending on where the light is and like they're totally different. One's like a gold ring of fire that just circulars around and then the other one's like just a nice like sort of rainbow flare from the edge. It's really cool. I mean it's a really really cool lens. But yeah, those combinations they're just like super special. But like to your point it's just you go by and this isn't necessarily a true, like, statement and stuff, but I do think it's one that sort of, like,

lives true, and that is you can't teach taste. Right. You know, I think, like, people can learn it. I mean, I have some things generally true all the time, but for the most part, you can't teach taste. And so it just, like, comes down to project to project, what's going to be best for the project. Every DP that's, like, you know,

knows what they're doing and stuff. Everyone says it. It's a project to project thing. You know, so can I like, like, would I like to shoot every project on film? I guess, like, it would be cool to shoot every project on film. That's what people were doing for the first hundred years, you know, of cinema and stuff. But there's trade-offs, right? Like, if you don't have a huge lighting budget for night exterior and you're shooting a commercial,

we have night exterior's and you have to shoot on film, it's like there are going to be trade-offs. Like, there's going to be big trade-offs, too. Like, in order to afford, like, even, like, lighting those scenes. You may not be able to shoot on the lenses you necessarily want to shoot on, or art department may suffer or so on and so forth. So when the jobs get to be really big, like a film has to be like worth it, you know? And a lot of times, and a lot of times it is I love film.

Like if I have my preference, yeah. Like I probably would shoot film more often than not. And that's kind of what I do. But I have so much fun. and like I love like the digital sensors too. I think they like there's there's great work that's done digitally, you know, like I remember seeing theory of everything that Benoit de Home shot and I was like, well, this is just like breathtaking.

This is, I think this is like, that's I think when I was like, I'm going to get like more. I'm going to now like experiment way more with digital cameras and stuff because this is just lit beautifully. Like I've never seen anything like so spectacular on digital. Yeah. He did Omelie. What's that?

He did Amelie, right? Omelie. Did he? Amelie, the French Benwald. I mean, he's a French D.P. I forget if he did. Isn't it? He did, I know he did, he did theory of everything.

He doesn't do, like, he actually doesn't do that many features. Apparently he's done like tons of shorts. He does tons of, like, commercials and beauty stuff. But I know he did theory of everything because I was just like, I never got a response on Instagram, but I remember, like, right now. I just want to let you know that that film was just glorious looking. It was just amazing looking. I think the director of that, I forget his name,

but he directed the documentary Man on a Wire. Sure. Yeah, Oscar winner. Yeah, so he directed that documentary. And then that was his first, like, like narrative piece of fiction. But I just thought, yeah, I thought they did an amazing job. A Man on a Wire was also like just an emotionally beautiful documentary

seeing that guy perform. You know, it was like, yeah, it's pretty crazy. Do you find that you, that was a lot? light differently for digital and film? Oh, yeah. What are those differences? Well, like, for example, like hard light on 16 on dark skin,

amazing, you know? Like, it can just, like, like, I remember a while ago, like I shot some, like, Wonderland piece with this photographer, Mackayah Carter, and there was a still posted, and I remember, like, it's the first time I was talking, to Todd Bonhanzel and he hit me up he's like what's the lighting stuff on that and I was like um I was like it's like an open I think I had like an like a 4K like just straight up like with

nothing on it just blasting into talent now like I didn't really have that and stuff really like that's what the photographer had like shooting at like one three thousand of a shutter or whatever but it worked so well because she had like this just like great like beautiful dark skin and like the hard light just was like reflecting off of it and you got even more texture from it and the highlights translated in such a beautiful different way and if I was shooting digital there's no way

I would have like I would have been like we got to diffuse this guys like we got to double break this if not triple like break it out and stuff so I definitely definitely in that sense like like film can take hard light it can like I don't really ever overexposed digital you know

unless I like I want a little bit more beauty on one side of someone's face specifically. Like I may over-exposed the digital negative like a tiny bit and stuff. But like with film, you can overexpose film. I remember by accident like my my focus puller on this like little project didn't

turn the iris back to the appropriate stop when he had switched the lens. And so we had one take that was four stops over on 16 and we were pushing a stop. Good. And just for fun, just for fun, I got it. It was a little mudd

so it's obviously to get used and stuff, but I got everything all the way back. Yeah. You know, which is like, not to say you can't do it digitally, but it's just like it, like the details of film, it translates in such a different way. So, I mean, like, I think I'm more into hard light with film and like more into soft light, usually, with digital or at least like I don't, I probably won't put like hard light hitting like someone's face necessarily for like a long extended scene. on digital, you know, unless it, like, really called for it. It's hard to like, it's hard to, like, get, it's hard to make everything like so cut and dry, because there's always those instances and stuff where you're talking with your director and you're like, you know, actually, like, I think, like, just some hard light and stuff slash me across here and like, she'll get a little bounce

from like, you know, the table and stuff back onto her face and this will be really nice and stuff. So there are like situations, but yeah, typically with film, it's like, you just have more freedom with the lighting, I find, you know? You have to work out of a meter I don't find that to be an issue. I still do. I don't know. It's somewhere around here. Yeah.

I've got three of them. I got three of the same meter. You know? Oh yeah. I just, I'm just, I like, I don't want to,

like one, like my meter fell off like in the plane on some job. And I like, I'm like, where's my meter? And then they found it. I had to go to the airport and get into the whole thing and stuff.

So I was like, I'm just going to like, I'll spend another couple ground, but get two more meters just to have, you know. Yeah. But yeah, and I just use meter on digital too because like I I just if I can start lighting and I don't have to wait for the camera to be set up then I might as well to start lighting. I've also found that I get I think this is a common

annoyance but people hovering over your shoulder trying to look at the monitor like well why does it look like that and you're like I'm not done so if you have the meter you don't even set at least in my case or I'd you know smaller crews because documentary and shit but like I can just start lighting without turning on the camera and they're like hey camera. I'm like, oh, it's built. I just didn't flick the switch on yet. I'm going to do this first. And then when I set up the camera, you look at it and be like, yep, see, there, we're done. Yeah. I mean, it's nice because, like, on film, like, jobs, it's like, me and my Gaffer just, like, are just, like, are just working. And there's no, like, and they just have that trust in you

or because they have no choice, right? You know, so that is, that is really nice. No, right? I mean, the HD taps, though, they do look pretty good. Like, you know, they, like, I, I got, Ollie Miller's Motho tap in my 435 and it's a pretty nice HD tap. I got to be honest with you, you know. But, uh, but, uh, but yeah, it's nice. We actually re-recorded some of this, I shot this jewelry commercial on some 200T like, I don't know, a week and a half ago. And, uh, we actually recorded on the HD signal and stuff with the ground glass and stuff.

And like, I think it got used in one of the spots. So that's cool. I mean, that's like the old school, uh, uh, red rock and like, lettuce adapters, you know, where it was just a ground glass getting projected and the, and the DVX would record it. It's basically that. Yeah. Yeah. It's cool. Like it's like, fashion. That's what's kind of nice about fashion is like you're just looking for like these very unique moments where everything kind of comes together. And then all of a sudden you like feel and you're like, okay, cool, we got it. It comes from like, and it comes from like everything.

I use this camera actually on it. So, so $40 mini cam I got off Instagram. Oh, you got it. It's got a little, it's got a little. It's got a little. It's got a little. A little webcam chip in it. Good. So it looks like old high eight. But yeah, like I was just like, I was like, I can rinse it to the production for five bucks. Great box rental. Yeah, right?

So, yeah, it's all good. So yeah, it's just like different stuff works. I guess I just don't, I'm just not one of the DPs that sticks with a certain set of lenses all the time or a certain film stock all the time. Like, I don't know. Maybe I'm like, maybe I'm perpetually trying to. find my voice, you know, or something or perpetually trying to find like my home, you know, within the visual medium and stuff. But I'm just like, I think mostly it's like every project is its own thing. And, you know, I want to, I want to explore like with my directors and explore

with my team and stuff. And, you know, I go back to lenses. I go back to master primes on film all the time. The combination works so well. I go back to K35s on digital all the time. But, yeah, never afraid to try something new. You know, I tried to, um, I tried to, um, Mashi's on a three-perf project. And just beautiful. Absolutely beautiful lenses. And so glad I tried because, yeah, you would just never know. Like, they're just like, no one had really done it.

And I was just like, well, spending the money for those tests. Yeah, no one's, yeah. And so every like individual project, that's why I tell people, just like, go shoot. Like, you think that like when you get onto like these Nike or Adidas campaigns and stuff. And sometimes you can do a lot. Sometimes there's a lot of creativity to be done. But you think when you get on these projects and stuff, like, oh, you're going to have all the freedom in the world and do what you want and stuff.

Like a lot of those big Nike campaigns, they are, I mean, the briefs tell you exactly how those things are going to be. And you don't have necessarily like all that much freedom. You have the most freedom when you're doing your own project because you're like, you're your boss. You're going to do as much as you want to do on it, you know? You just have to like, you have to get to like the point and stuff where you have whole career, like, as a filmmaker and stuff. And then you're making the choice to go back and just

do your own thing just because you love it, then you want to or you have some need to and not, like, I'm doing this by default because I have no other choice. I think that's probably like what people get stuck in is like, yeah, I get that dude, but like, I'm not going and shooting like some like, you know, million dollar commercial and then going and doing it and stuff. I'm just doing this and stuff. But I think like if I could give like a general advice to everyone, like, trying to like be a cinematographer or just an artist in general like the most freedom you're ever going to have is the stuff you do on your own yeah everyone else is your boss everyone else you know everyone else has an opinion you know it's just always going to be it's always going to be a thing but yeah

but it's yeah but as far as the lighting thing goes yeah it's definitely for the most part it would be different you know and digital and stuff i probably diffuse a lot more and i'm doing beauty work i like i really want to pay attention to how that shows up not only like when we go to color but how it shows up like when people are viewing it in the moment and stuff like I don't want I don't I don't want any commentary like why does she not look like I think she should look prettier I think her skin she looks smoother and stuff like I come in with like this is like the plan that we're going to go with and then we're going to tweak but the general plan of lighting the space or lighting like or maybe having to be like talent and light the space like this is our general plan to be like

let's execute this and then we can tweak because we can tweak the fine details because like you and me will see the fine details that'll give it that little extra and make it that little bit better. You know, the reflection is like could be a little bit better in an eyeball or something for an eye light or something like that, you know, like or something really small. But the general people, the people that are hiring us and paying us a great deal of money to do our jobs, we need to like make sure that they know that like we're taking care of business quickly. and that like by the time talent walks over the monitor and stuff, they're like, ooh, yeah, I like that.

Yeah, you know, and stuff. Because like that's, in the end of the day, like, for me, like, stuff breaks down to three categories, bad, good, and great. And I'd say probably about 95% of the stuff that's made, like, and I hate using the word content. I'm going to use it this once and stuff. And this section, but all of content, movies, commercials, music videos, documentary.

Like, 95% of it is bad. Yeah. Like, it doesn't mean. there aren't formulas for it doesn't mean there aren't markets for it, but generally speaking, it's not like, you know, it's not good. And then there's about four and a half percent that's good. And that's kind of like the worlds we're working in. We're working in this like these worlds where good is what we need to do by default. That's the expectation. When you get hired on one of these jobs, like, I don't care if the set burns down and the camera gets hit by the truck. I can still take my

phone out and I can still make a beautiful image and I can still make sure we get it done and stuff because that's what I'm being paid to do. Right. You know, and then we're as artists, we're striving for great. Like, we're always trying to reach like, like, this like sense of like, oh, this project's great. Like, this looks amazing. Like, and it just happens once in a while when everyone's job just comes together and the timing of like the whole world is right. It just hits in a certain way. You're like, oh, this is amazing. It happens like once. in a blue moon and stuff. But good should never be difficult to hit.

You always need to just be able to do good work. It's not like, it's not a choice. Because once one of the people that isn't like a cinematographer or a technical person at all, starts to, like it was on agency or client or studio or labor or whatever, starts to question the image and go, why does this look like this?

You're in trouble. Yeah. Some of my earlier stuff, because I was constantly coloring my own work. and I would shoot in such a way that I was giving myself, as Steve Yedlin says, like a good enough data set for which to manipulate and post. Having to tell clients that doesn't work.

You know, I know it looks kind of shit here, but when I get it in the grade, you're going to be like, wow, that never flies. Right. It may work, like some people, people have said to me like, oh, well, you know, like you work with Yanis, Janush would just do this and stuff.

Like, and I'm sure like it would be fine. And I go, yeah. And I go, because Janush is Janush, and I'm just Quinn. And that's the difference. You know, I'm Quinny. He's Janush. There's kind of separate worlds. I can't tell the director in the agency and stuff like, no, this will be good.

Just trust me. I've won two Academy Awards and shot every Spielberg film for the past 35 years. It don't work for me. You know, so I can't just do that stuff. I need, like, proof. You know, the proof's got to be in the pudding. Like, you know, I don't have that, I don't have that type of flexibility. I'm sure the agency doesn't question Roger Deacons.

Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what? I bet some of them do, too. I bet you hire a Deacons or whoever, and then they're like, we love everything you've ever done. Now, for this one, can we just, you know, it's always can we just. They did it with, I did some commercial in Tahiti with Doug Lyman, like, a long time ago. I was, like, doing, like, the BTS.

like some of the second unit stuff. And he took my camera because it was like, it was like a nine camera job, but I was the only freestanding camera because we're out of the ocean, that Chopoo and Tahiti. And he takes it and the agencies, and then we,

they're wondering if you can make it a little bit more like sort of fluid and product sense, but Doug just goes, guys, I'm going to shoot it, how I'm going to shoot it. That's what I'm going to do. Okay, so.

I'm just like, damn, like, you know, as I'm hanging off the boat with one arm, trying to pull focus off the barrel as he's like, He's like going all over the place and stuff. But it's just like, it's true. Like you guys hired Doug Lyman and you're paying him probably like a million dollars to do this commercial. He's just like telling you what you should just already know.

He's going to do what he's going to do and stuff because this is who you hired. Yeah. Well, and I find that like sort of more globally, like the more that I think a lot of, I'm just going to put clients in big air quotes, but there's a lot of people who have probably good taste or are very smart filmmakers in their own right. But and this kind of goes back to your point of making sure when they look at the monitor, they don't have questions. The more that they try to get you as the DP to do something, the more it knocks you out of your flow state and then you will fail.

If they leave you alone to just get into your own rhythm and this stuff gets better, but the more they interrupt your thought process and go, could you just, could you just, like, you end up second guess, you know, it's like going to a baseball player and being, like, getting in their ear while they're ready to swing. And you're like, okay, do it now. You know, they're not going to be like, I know how to swing. Stop. Yeah.

It's, you know, I think the thing is, like, our jobs, like, are really cool. Like, they're super fun. Yeah. Like, we get to do these, like, super fun, special jobs. I always feel really lucky I get to do it, you know, like for a living. But, you know, the agency's job. being on the agency, they have a lot of work to do with the creative, you know, when they're developing the creative and selling it to the client and stuff.

After that, most of their work is done, you know, and stuff. And they want to be also involved in the filmmaking process. And I will say there have been times and stuff, people in the agency have had really good ideas that have helped the spot, you know? Sure. But there are times where it's like, where, you know, they're messing with something that they don't really know how it works, you know? Like I'm hanging up a branch of Loris or something and stuff and just like,

trying to create some shadows. And it's not in place yet and stuff. And they go, well, you know, I think you should get a bigger branch. You know, why don't we go get a, why don't you have a bigger branch and stuff? Because a bigger branch will do this. And I'll be like, well, that's not really what we're going for. And then that's going to be out of frame. And then it's going to look like, you know, like the trees all over the place.

And it's going to start getting the way of talent. And then before you know, it's like you're, you're explaining yourself to them and stuff. And I think like, people just want to be involved in the process to a certain extent. So I don't necessarily like, but it's like, I never dig into the creative. I go, you know what, why don't we shift for the creative a little bit and stuff? I have an idea here. Right. Tell me what you think. Because it's not

my place to do it. You know, and it gets in the way the collaboration. I mean, it's kind of all, and the thing is it's all collaboration too. Like, everyone kind of has like a purpose there and like, at least the last like four years from me, I've just been like, you know what?

There are times where like certain jobs, certain like projects and stuff, like they center around certain things I find, you know, like, sometimes it is the lensing and I need, like, a lot of lenses to do what I need to do. But sometimes it's like, like, I did a period, like, piece, music video, like, where like they were like, like, like, redoing the JFK assassination. And like, like, I remember just being like, I'll shoot it on like just a regular Alexa. Like, I don't need an Alexa, like, LF. Like, let's just shoot on the regular Alexa. And like, let's just, like, I just, like, I'll just use three lenses in a zoom. Like,

I don't need nine lenses. Like, I don't need nine lenses. like because we need to have more money for wardrobe. Because if if the wardrobe isn't good, then like the period piece does not play. You know, it doesn't matter how old are the lens I get. If we don't have enough like people in the frame and stuff, it was not going to matter. It's and people aren't going to go, oh, wow, that lens is like, it looks so amazing and stuff. So glad Quinn got that really old lens on there, you know, and we sacrificed, you know, 20 extras for it. You know, it's like, no, it's like you got to like, there's sometimes we got to be like, no, I can do it with two lenses.

because like it's going to be more important for art department to have this. Or like I remember giving some of my money on this grinder campaign to art department and being like to the EPS. I just want to make sure this gets to art department. She was like super happy that I was like, you know, willing to do it. She was super nice about it. She was actually really great EP and stuff did like an amazing job on that commercial. I can't wait to work with her again.

But I gave it to them because I need more practicals in the frame. Like in the practicals we're going to help my frame. And if I, like, yeah, I could have had a little bit more money and I could have probably gotten like, you know, another lens I wanted. But like the practicals in the frame and like the opinion from the production designer and stuff and being able to get that and stuff is going to be way more helpful. So the overall like feel and the overall image we're going for and the overall story we're trying to tell and stuff. And sometimes you just have to be like, like we spend the most money. Like DPs like generally spend the most money after above the line is kind of, you know, taking. care of and stuff. We spend a great deal of money and stuff. And sometimes you just have to be like,

you know what? We just, we got to spend it elsewhere and stuff because it's going to be helpful for us. Like it's going to make our image better and make our work look better and stuff. Because everyone thinks on like smaller sets when you're first starting, everyone thinks they have the most important job and everyone thinks they're doing the most important thing. You know? And sometimes, yeah, you know, I mean, you always want your work to be really good and stuff. So you have to like sort of have that and stuff. But sometimes you got to be like, you know what? Like production design really like like this is going to make this so much better. Maybe there's something I can do and since it's going to help me and stuff, maybe we don't need both the Zoom lenses. Like I got a 24 to

290. Do I need a 17 to 80 just because it's a stop faster? Like, you know, like if I'm on digital, I just raise the ISO. We're all good. You know, it's like there are certain like, I think, there are appropriate compromises that I think in a lot of ways that made my work significantly better. And because, like, you're willing to sort of make those compromises, it makes the collaboration a lot smoother and a lot, like, more sort of cheerful and joyful of a collaboration, you know, where it's like all of a sudden, like, they're not arguing for 500 bucks because I was like,

because I'm just like, you know, I get you guys are tight and stuff. Like, you know, like we have a really good camera package and camera house is happy and stuff. And like, I don't need this extra thing. Like I can save like $400. But I really like, like production design needs this like whatever. needs these lamps and stuff like and they want these and stuff and i think it's going to like look a lot better so i just i will get that zoom it'll still be really good yeah well and uh compromising again big air quotes uh with production design is hardly a compromise for dPs that's usually like

you know you you want something interesting to shoot yeah yeah i've done it for wardrobe design's good or wardrobe yeah yeah well i've done with wardrobe i've done for makeup before i did first like our we do it for sound i took my shoes off for an entire day and stuff because my shoes were making a weird sound as i operate so i operated in my socks for like the whole day because i wanted the sound like quality to be better you know what i did is i bought those um because again documentary i end up doing my own sound a lot of the time and so i'm learning all these like sound problems that that exist and shit but they they i think they're called like hush heels or something, but they make like rubber pads that you stick on to shoes so that they don't.

Oh, really? Mm-hmm. And so I just bought a set of those. I'll text you the link to them because they're, yeah, when you get to keep your, you know, save your back. Yeah, save your back, save your, save my knees, two knees deep. Yeah. Well, the hour has absolutely flown by, but it was so phenomenal talking to you, man. really enjoyed it and hopefully

would be able to chat soon. I'm sure I can see around town. Yeah, for sure, man. Let's do something really. Thanks for having me on. I love riffing, man. It's just super fun. Yeah, I mean, that's, you know, I don't get paid to do this. I'm doing it for the love of the game, man. Oh, yeah, totally. Sorry we didn't get to the project. Sometimes just, I feel like when two DPs talk, it's just like, it can be endless, you know? And I've also, the kind of secret of this show is that like it's not really about

the projects. It's about the people. Yeah, right. Like, I only list the movie they did because that's what the PR people want me to, you know, that Instagram post is the ad. The discussion is for the people listening, you know, and if it's some crazy cool movie, yeah, okay. Even

when we talked about Avatar, like, it was, we barely talked about Avatar, you know? I honestly, from most episodes I hear, it's really just like, you know, because it's hard, like, because you talk about like, oh, why did you use these lenses and stuff? Some people are like, why did you use super six like why do you like super six anamorphics so much i can't explain why i like super

synamorphic so much but i use those lenses because they're the only lenses that do it yeah yeah or like another big one is like and it sucks because i i always want to learn more about lighting and stuff and like what other people are doing but nine times out of ten you're like well how'd you like that and they're like top light big soft source to the left you can't fill an hour with that yeah right right it's like or it's like asking like i've like been to like lighting demos and stuff and like the guys your line down was like does anyone have any questions? Someone will ask like one or two questions and stuff like

really there's no other questions. I'm just thinking like what do you want me to ask? Yeah. Like I don't know what I don't what else to ask about this light. I mean like I could ask you can I use it to shoot like can I use it to light like a giraffe? I mean I don't know. I mean it's a light like I don't have any more questions on it.

It looks like a really good light and I can't wait to use it and stuff. I just don't know like how any more questions I can. Yeah. Like in the lighting setups it's like why did you light this way and stuff? Sometimes and that's, this thing, did you see that David Bowie documentary? No. I forget what it was called exactly.

It was really good. I think a director of an iconoclast did it. And David Bowie was able to like very like almost analytically break down his process and like his art in a way and stuff. And he had a long time, you know, to figure that out and do that. And I feel like a lot of that times like when I'll talk to people, it's like some sometimes I can break it down, you know, and like tell you like why I did something specifically, you know, for a reason. But sometimes it's just like, it just felt right because it's just art. And that's kind of the beauty of it and stuff. And you just have to like feel it. You just have to feel it in your bones and just feel it in your heart.

And like, and that's kind of why it happens. And I know that that's not like the most helpful, you know, answer for you guys or what was the most helpful like suggestion and stuff? But that's just the way it is sometimes. You know, it's like why you use a certain lens is because I put them on and it felt right. this is what I did it. Yeah. Well, and also I think the secret that I've learned over the years is, yeah, you can learn, people can tell you how

they shot something or whatever, but even like going back and reading old, you know, like I just got this type of stuff. This just came out in like what, the 80s or some shit? Maybe not. Yeah, like 80s. Zinc? Yeah, this is a... I think it's 88. You find, oh,

95? Oh, wow. whatever. But in any case, stuff like this, you know, you end up seeing that the main lesson for NEDP is to feel. You know, Starraro's book is just him talking about like emotion. It's not like, how do you like this? Because that's easy. Anyone can light a thing after a minute. But how to feel. And kind of with this whole project, with the podcast, I've always kind of been like, If someone listens to it enough, they'll start to notice that almost no conversation really goes into technique. Because that, you can learn that on YouTube. Yeah. It's about the type of person that is making it, that is important in it.

And hopefully it'll embolden people to be themselves and trust themselves and feel emotionally and connect with the art in that way versus trying to force it. It's totally true. That's totally true, too. And I think at a certain point, like, six, seven years in, I was like, I'm just going to be myself because it's easier. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, it's just like, it's just like, you know, like I am who I am. I always want to like, I always have this thing for progression, always progressing, like on all fronts and moving forward on all fronts.

But I just, you know, like, I'm just like a happy person that just like hanging out with good people and like making great work. and like I just, yeah, just be my, like, I have things that I like that maybe other people don't like or maybe like bigger DPs that like I looked up to at one point stuff wouldn't have done and stuff and I'm just like, I don't care. Like this is like, this is who I am. This is how I see things and stuff. This is how I like to collaborate. Like, you know, and it's just easier to be yourself and stuff.

So, I mean, like, and that's like what you should be because people are like, if I was trying to be like Janush all the time and stuff because I worked with Yanush, like, like, I mean, like, they can go, like, they can go hire Yonish, you know? Right. Yonich already exists, you know? Like, I, like, so it's like you can, and like, you're always, in a way, you're always doing original work because in that moment and stuff, no one's doing that, like, that thing that you're doing, you know, you're, you're collaborating with your director and, and,

you guys are doing that thing together and stuff. And so that moment is, like, unique in itself, you know, and just like, you know, being there and just being there and just being present and just enjoying the journey, like, because, like, honestly like there was times where I was just like always thinking about the next job like the bigger job or something and I'm just like about like yeah but like six or seven years ago I was just like why am I like worried about the next job like why don't I just like be happy about doing this job and just like be like in the moment with like the collaborators I have right now like and it just has been like a much happier better way of living and just going through life just not even in jobs like I talk to like

I now like try to talk to strangers and just like talk to people just daily just because like I like talking to people. And, like, honestly, like, a lot of people don't have fun jobs. And if you talk to them, like, they're just human beings, you know, and just like, you know, have a little chat with them. It makes their day better too. Yeah, totally. You know?

Yeah, man, I appreciate it, dude. This is super fun. All right, man. Yeah. Have a good day, dude. You too, brother. Stay in touch. Yeah.

Later, dude. Bye. Bye. Frame and Reference is an Albot production, produced and edited by me, Kenny McBellan. If you'd like to support the podcast directly, you can do so by going to frame and refpod.com and clicking on the Patreon button. It's always appreciated. And as always, thanks for listening.