Frame & Reference Podcast - 6: “Son of Monarchs” DP Alejandro Mejia

Episode Date: March 4, 2021

On todays episode of the Frame & Reference Podcast Kenny talks with cinematographer Alejandro Mejia about the Alfred P. Sloan Prize winning Sundance film "Son of Monarchs." Utilizing the Arri ALEXA Mini, anamorphic glass and as much natural light as possible, Alejandro and director Alexis Gambis craft a stunning film worthy of a watch when it becomes available. Check out Alejandro's IMDb for his full filmography: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0577218/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cr14 Liking the podcast? Leave a rating and review on your favorite podcast app! Frame & Reference is supported by Filmtools and ProVideo Coalition. Filmtools is the West Coasts leading supplier of film equipment. From cameras and lights to grip and expendables, Filmtools has you covered for all your film gear needs. Check out Filmtools.com for more. ProVideo Coalition is a top news and reviews site focusing on all things production and post. Check out ProVideoCoalition.com for the latest news coming out of the industry.

Hello, and welcome to this, another episode of Frame and Reference. I'm your host, Kenny McMillan, and today we're talking with Alejandro Mejia about his work on the film Son of Monarchs, which just won one of the prizes at Sundance just recently, and it's well-designed. It is a gorgeous looking film. Alejandro absolutely knocked it out of the park. I spend the first few minutes of this interview gushing about it like a nerd. So highly recommend that you seek it out and watch it yourself. You know, with all the, as with all the Sundance films,

I don't know when they'll be made available or distributed, but when they are, seek it out. This was another one where I only had him for a half hour, so we just kind of get right into it to talk about his work on the film. And as such, in keeping with the theme, I won't spend too much time on this intro. So if you are interested in naturalistic lighting, if you're interested in anamorphics, if you're interested in good, just solid modern cinematography, this is the podcast. for you. I think you'll thoroughly enjoy it. So, so without further ado, here's my interview with Alejandro Mejia. So to start, I watched the film last night. Buddy, gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous work.

I was really impressed. Talk to me about everything, all the lighting just seems so controlled and so just perfect indoors and out. Talk to me about what your approach was to lighting outdoors, especially, but then also obviously indoors. Yeah, I mean, I think for me it was very important to respect the natural locations. I'm coming from a still photography background. So I think, and then I switched sometimes

between documentary and fiction film. And especially from this one, I was coming from a $499, which is another future film I showed that is a hybrid, that I got the best cinematography at Tribeca last year. And I was jumping. Yeah, I was jumping just from that project to this one. So I think I was carrying that influence. And $4.99, I didn't use any, like, artificial light or film light.

It was all available light. So I think especially in the natural light, I feel very, like, confident of, like, observing and controlling and trying to shoot at the hours or like moving the characters in a zone where I can have a little more control. And another thing is Alex is the director. He was very specific, especially indoors with the lab that everything needs to be accurate in the way they put the microscope. They use this, the light how it is. So that was a, I will say at the end, it was respecting the nature of the reallocations. Sure.

What was, so it was mostly like a grip show, like a lot of diffusion neg. What was your package there? What were you doing with? Yeah. I mean, and outside I was using some, I used like the negative in one side, like 12 by 12, 20 by 20 when we're in exteriors. And I like to use also like some diffusion as a bounce, no, that it's not too hard. and and sometimes I put also the black fabric on the floor and it depends like the but for example in the butterflies I was not able to do that that was all like camera

and lenses no because we have to be very respectful with the colonies of butterflies there so no reflectors no nothing it was just like camera and lenses yeah what what was your camera and lens package it was very I assume anamorphics they were We're real beautiful, fudgy around the edges, real classic vintage look. Hawks, maybe? Yeah. That was my guess. No, it was a Lomo round front, the Russian ones.

And yeah, and the Alexa Ari, Ari Alexa Mini, that's one package that I use a lot. And for 99, I shot with also anamorphic lenses, but the kawa, the Japanese. On this one, I switched to the Russian look. And yeah, and I was doing some test, and I think my F stop was around 4, 5.6, where it's like kind of the sweet spot of the lens. And also combining with these steady cam movements, not that we were a lot like that, like kind of floating as a butterfly kind of thing around the character. That was kind of our approach on that sense. Yeah, that, you know, I've always said that the first scene of any movie really, dictates, you know, it tells the audience what we're going to be doing here. And that,

that opening scene just like the shots of the butterflies are really just beautiful and sort of ethereal almost. And then the dissection thing, just, you know, man, you are the king of backlight, my bud. You like, really good. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. I love blacklight because I think for me that I always start that that way no I put a black light and then from there I'm like okay then I need or I don't need and I also love to use the ND filters of course in the camera and the and the Pola that was my package on filters it's funny because these lenses the LOMO you cannot use a mat box because the focus moves like with the madbox so I was not able sometimes my my AC made like a little arm that we were putting like in front of the lens especially in interiors and then we use diopters for all these shots that you oh really yeah and only actually not in the the section but on the tattoo i used the master prime hundred macro lens that was the only difference and the and we connect the cannon c300 to the microscope directly there's an adapter and you connect that

and then you have all this, like, new world in front of you. Yeah, I was going to ask, because the microscope shots are very, like, they fit exactly with the look of the rest of the film, which I wasn't, you know, you would assume a microscope. I was like, either this is being faked somehow or, you know, something. But, yeah, those were awesome. So you did that with a C-300. Yeah, with C-300.

That's one, sometimes I think, yeah, the C-300 is a good combination with the ARI. It's kind of a good V-Cam. you can like kind of make it look alike. And of course, that was a good, good work of the colorist, Eli Acocca, which is in France. He's famous. He's the colorist of blues, the Guarmer's Color. And his dad is also the colorist of Amelie.

So that's when they built this, like, studio in France in Paris. So I was able to work with him in this one. And I think he really made like a good job. I think it's essential also. that part of like the colorist and understanding especially now at the distance with the pandemic was crazy totally yeah i was going to ask um what what was the look in camera that you were getting like how are you exposing um your image versus what the colorist did yeah i mean i i i develop a lute a lot uh where i was more than a look for the movie i was controlling the highlights no

especially in Mexico, because the light there moves faster and it's brighter, especially like now in the winter, here in New York, in the winter, you have this more like side light that stays there more time. And so I was easier to control in that sense. But then I built this lot for Mexico to control the highlights that I was always like, oh, I'm not going to like cross that border and and respecting like in terms of the look it was a little bit desaturated because just

because I don't like the the Rex 709 if it looks like so TV for me but it was just as a reference then after that we were like checking and talking with the colorist and he totally understood that it was like a very naturalistic look that we

were trying to get and then we started to share references and like I was working a little bit Photoshop, like sending him just mini corrections. And then from there, also we decide how to difference the present and the past, which was the other thing. We were like, no, we don't want to go black and white. We don't want to get crazy with that. It's like a very subtle, little two, three points more of less saturation on that one in the past than the present and that. That was it. Were there other films that you were kind of looking at that informed the look or what was the deal

there. The deal was more like the real life. Like I usually I love to to get references from like photo books. I have a big collection. So I'm coming now as I said before from Steel Photography World. And I find always there more inspiration than in other movies because movies I sometimes I feel like oh we're going to copy and I feel not really comfortable getting into that. world so in the in this in this sense we were exploring like alex web and all like famous photographer that he he has like books about mexico has these like strong colors and compositions and uh and also i had the chance like back in the days to to have as a mentor gracie leitur which is also a mexican famous photographer more black and white but all this like day of death

and like small town vibe it's like coming from her and and then for for the macro world we were like alexis the director took me to this uh he has a colleague it's also a french guy that he was doing a conference i forgot his name now but uh he was making this um transforming genetically the the border flag wings and he built like an alphabet through that so i was in this conference and all these like slides and then he shared to me by email that was like also a new a completely new world for me and but yeah we were kind of respecting also the locations not when i went the first time to the lab and i saw this like pink purple light where it was like one scientist working i was like wow this is the way they work that's kind of trippy and they were like yeah so then i was like okay

so i took pictures and i was trying to replicate as much as i as i could like the real bite, because Alexis was very precise on that. Like, the lab needs to be exactly the same. I don't want the scientists telling me the microscope is grown or, like, you know, which it happens all the time in these kind of films. And so we were respecting and finding also that the scientist's world is kind of very similar than the art world, no, in that sense, like they are like more introspective people getting in their own offices

and like decoration. on so we were like kind of like influenced by that yeah i was actually that's funny you bring up the uh the colored lighting because i in my head when you know there's there's a scene kind of halfway maybe through the movie where he's just completely lit by purple and i did have the thought i was like all right getting a little uh getting a little creative here but you're saying that that was just what it looked like there yeah yeah that's uh and the same with mexico no like a lot of people is asking me like oh i didn't know that Like Mexico looks like that.

And I was like, yeah, because we have always the idea that it looks like in Cicario or all these movies, no, that it looks sepia, dusty, and like creamy. And I was like, no, we, I was, I think, also a new place for all of us, this little town in the middle of Michoacan, where all the butterflies that come in the winter. And we discovered that place. And I was like, for me, it was like a little town of Europe, kind of that vibe, no, with all these, like, colors. and the forest, no, by itself. It's a big source of inspiration.

Yeah, that valley, I guess, was just beautiful. Those landscapes you got were awesome. Oh, I wanted to ask about the car scene. There's a car scene where you're getting these sort of overs while they're driving. How was that rigged up? Yeah. Yeah, that was like the classic rig from the window, like that you put the camera. Actually, they cut it on the film, but it was.

like a big sequence where he comes out of the boss and then he's walking towards the truck and we were not cutting and I was like kind of panning and then the car was leaving with the camera there. Yeah and I was like oh damn that was not on the phone. I mean they cut it because it was too long but sometimes I like to do this kind of magic things where you are like oh how how no But then, yeah, it was like the classic rig outside, like side, and then the other one just trying to combine. Sometimes I was putting a little light, a little, I think, astata inside, used to have a little, like, feel there because, like, the forest is also, no, it's a big contrast. And these lenses, I think, one of the characteristics is, like, they're a little contrasty. For example, the kawa are, like, more, like, soft in the contrast, more creamy.

But these ones, they're already like, you have to, and especially in Mexico where the light is very hard, you have to be careful with that, no, and like not get too crazy. Yeah, what made you switch from, what was the reasoning behind switching to the, to the LOMO's? Yeah, because I think I mean, yeah, because I think I always try to be open and experiment in new projects because I think. I don't like to be like in a comfort zone where it's like, oh, I find my cook S4 looks amazing with Alexa Minion and I'm just going to go that way. Because for me, it's kind of boring

and I need this challenge when I'm shooting nowhere, like how I'm going to solve. And that was the example in 499 that I didn't use any light. It was all available light. I was in anamorphic lenses shooting this hybrid documentary fiction film. And I was very focused, like every frame

I was really thinking how I can make it look poetic without having even a gaffer. So in this next project, I was like, okay, I cannot repeat myself, no? And I have to experiment with these other lenses. I was like sure that I want to keep on anamorphic, but I was like I want to use the, I mean, of course I have previous experience on short films with both,

but it's not the same when you're like in this. this long-term project. But I think I'm very happy with the decision because I think for the character, it was good. Like he, he's an amazing actor, The Nodge. And I think we kind of really connect visually and like personally in the in the film, no, with this lenses. Yeah. No, again, I could say how much I love the film over and over and over again. Trust me, I love it. What, Thank you. Talk to me about your transition from being a photographer into a cinematographer. How'd that happen? That happened when like the digital world came. I was studying photography when I was 17, like with film photography.

And I was able to also, I went to Norway as a exchange student and I had the chance to work with a photographer there, life Gabrielson, and also see these like minimal. in the maximum expression there in Norway. And so when I went back to Mexico, I was doing these little projects with some governmental grants. And then, yeah, I think was, yeah, when like the digital cameras, I started to feel like, oh, I'm losing something.

But at the same time, when I was still doing still photography, I was always bringing my audio recorder. Then I switched to a handicapped, handicam video recorder and like always shooting my friends and things like that. So then I went to the visual art school and after that when I graduate, I or before that, I started to do my practice in a production company in Mexico City. It was like one hour. I was growing up one hour outside Mexico City. So then I started to get more and more involved into that.

And then I think, yeah, it was this art. exhibition that I got in here in Columbus, Ohio. And I remember on the plane back to Mexico that I was like, this is it. I think from here I just going to switch into film and try to do something there. But yeah, it's not easy. Of course, as Mexican, I got so many nose. And finally, I can say, yeah, the last three, four years, it's been amazing with like the awards and the people reaching out and yeah that's kind of awesome i you know i'm definitely going to have to check out your other stuff but based on this uh you deserve it man um the uh what were my other notes here uh oh top light i noticed how were you a big top light guy noticed indoors it seemed

kind of topy which i'm personally a fan of how are you setting those shots up yeah uh yeah i use I think most of the time in the top light because I like to light more spaces than people because for me it's about the atmospheres and also I grew up

film-wise with this mentor also from Hong Kong that came to Mexico and he was always not telling us like less is more and if you use one light it's one problem, two lights is two problems so you know how many problems

you're going to and also he was like respect the location no in that sense like feel it like and i think also christopher doyle he says that a lot i took a workshop with him in mexico as well and uh and there will talk about this location feeling no that is like the texture of the wall so that's why for me came i came since that time with idea of like yeah i have to if i'm going to use any light needs to go from the top that it needs this space where they're actually they can move freely. And it doesn't matter, sometimes they go out, no, because, and of course depends the project,

because having more breaks where the director is like, no, no, I need the light, I need to see the face. And so, but in this one, I was having the freedom of like to be more realistic. And I think that the cinema is going in that direction, no? We are more like hyper-realistic. Like when I grew up in the 80s, it was more like, no, top-gun.

and this pink light from the window or purple and it was more like effects and now I think that's also school that we learn with Rodrigo Prieto, no, since Amores Perros in 2000, like 20 years ago. Like that movie I think shows like this like kind of handheld dog but not like powerful dramatic story like and it's like it looks like a real life no it's not like we And so I always try to do that, like, that you don't notice, like, exactly where is the light. Of course, sometimes it's easier, sometimes not, because it depends of time, but yet. But, but yeah, I love using top light. What, what fixtures were you using for that, just like LED panels of some kind?

Yeah, I think I use pretty much the light mat. That's one light that I really like. now with the Lightmat 4 spectrum that you have the colors that also there. I really like that. I use also the Quasar and that movie a lot. Like for example, this shot where he's like dreaming that is blue light with the butterflies

that like a lot of people like stands out with that and it's just like one bulb of Quasar blue light with diffusion and that was it. No? It's like very simple. But I like the quality. Asteras are very, like, practical. No, it's like you just put it there. You have the app. And Quasar, you have to cable them. But the quality is much better on Quasar in that sense, no? Everyone loves, I mean, every DP I've ever talked to is always talking about the Astera tubes. They're just, like, they change the game.

Yeah. How were you? I noticed there was a lot of really good, just simple white balance color contrast. How were you approaching that? Like what were you rating the camera at versus what the light? Obviously, you know, you had natural daylight, but, you know, indoors and stuff. What was your approach there? Yeah, I liked like indoors.

I usually go for like 43 and sometimes I maintain that outside. I think in New York I was like mainly 43 outside. I like to play more in that. I think that color temperature, it's more like less saturated in color, no, for me, like. And I don't remember in Mexico now, but it was like maybe, yeah, five, six or I was like kind of there. But yeah, but I try to go a little bit less than 56, you know, in general. Like I just sometimes I balance with the wall or where I just start to move and by my eye, I'm like, okay. I usually have my monitor, the Flanders 17, that I trust, and I go there, and I'm like, okay, I manipulate that.

And, yeah. Were you using, like, a shooting let of any kind? Did you have one already set up with the colorist? Or were you just kind of use, you know, I'll worry about it later kind of thing? Can you repeat? Sorry? Did you have, like, a show lot, like a in-camera, like a custom let that you had made? Yeah.

That's the one that I was telling you that I built. and more for like controlling the highlights in Mexico and it was like a little bit less saturation and mini look but not like I have a bunch of ones that I made with colories so I choose one that it was just less saturated and yeah but I think I keep the contrast because I was worried about these lenses

that I was like oh I cannot get too crazy and but yeah it was more yeah, in this one I was not too worried of like oh I need to make this look it was more like natural and then in the color correction like I know where I want to

go and it's just a matter of communicating that because that's sometimes a problem like to get into that place with a colorist no totally what else oh just you know coming up

what were some films that you that drew that you were drawn to, you know, coming up? Like films that I work on that are going to come out? No, no, like just ones you like, you know, ones that made you go like, yeah, that's awesome. At Sundance or in general? In general, just in life. In general, yeah.

Yeah, no, in life, I think, of course, I mean, as cinematographer, I really love the work of Gabriel Figueroa, which is this old-school Mexican cinematographer that I invite all the people to check his work. He was doing a lot of movies with Elindio Fernandez, that is a Mexican director, kind of the 50s, 40s. And of course I admire, yeah, the work of Inari too. I really love Wonkawai, all these like Hong Kong people. I will say lately, yeah.

I, yeah, I think Mother of George is one movie that I really like from here, from Bradford-Young. Great D.P. Yeah, great D.P. Great person. I think, yeah, what else? Yeah, I think, yeah, in general, I think that's it. That's kind of my... I love a lot of Asian cinema. it's kind of but I'm yeah I try to to watch like movie or

art films are more like my my vibe for sure totally yeah I I'm kind of the opposite I came up you know my favorite films are like men in black you know

yeah but that's good that's good I don't know if I mean if I could do a film like that because I have no idea but because that's like talking with my public system

about that much she's like oh you I which projects you can see see yourself and I'm like yeah like dramas easily for me it's like with all these like naturalistic style it's like yeah I can do that easily but if an horror film or like a science fiction which is I mean I made a couple of science fiction short films and it's always very interesting not to explore new ways but yeah cool I remember many Black Tree that they were shooting here here around the corner. Oh, yeah. So I got to let you go here soon, but last two questions.

Was there anything on this film that you learned that you think would be good advice for cinematographers listening, and also are there any personal projects that you're working on? Yeah, I think, I mean, the advice, not only in this project, it's like, yeah, we have to keep fighting and be disciplined. And for me, the most important thing is like to find your own voice, no, like to have signature and style and as Christopher Doyle, he was saying at camera image last time. He's like, I'm tired of watching in the mood for love in any mood board of any project.

So we have to experiment through our personal life. I think that's the best advice and more, yeah, observation, less phone. And I think that's where we're going to learn so many things through that to observe, like, people eating, people dancing, people or the landscapes more through Instagram or Netflix or these other things, no? And I'm working, yeah, I mean, I'm now in standby with all this pandemic, but I was attached or I'm still attached to a project with the nonful one. the director of One Child Nation to do like a series with her but we still don't know when and I'm preparing a new future film

with the actor with the notch we became really good friends and we're going to shoot we're supposed to be shooting in January but also the pandemic pushed that there is in Mexico but hopefully in April we're going to be able to start and

we have already a second project in the developing stage so hopefully you can you can check it out yeah are you still taking photos yeah i i mean now with my phone every day now it's a big snowstorm here in new york and i cannot wait to go outside and do some pictures of that and but yeah i have my my small fuji camera i have my love the fuji i got an xt3 love that yeah this actually like yeah it's here like there you go i don't know this is the x-30 that is small same really love yeah and uh and yeah and sometimes i do some medium format uh yeah this is my also my favorite nice i really love this camera yeah i got

i try i try i was going to say i have an rb 67 or rz 67 but you can't it's so hard to just walk around and and where and where are you based kenny los angeles okay cool and it's like a snowboard on your back or what is that? Yeah, yeah, I've been a snowboard in my whole life, so I've got a couple back there in the office. I have an office now, so I got to decorate it. But awesome, man.

Thank you so much for spending this time with me. I really, really appreciate it. And again, the film is beautiful, so really well done. No, thank you very much, and I will check your podcast, and yeah, thanks a lot. Appreciate it, man. Take it easy.

Bye, bye. Frame and reference is an Owlbaud production. It's produced and edited by me, Kenny McMillan, and distributed by Pro Video Coalition. Our theme song is written and performed by Mark Pelly, and the F&R Matbox logo was designed by Nate Truax of Truaxe branding company. You can read or watch the podcast you just heard by going to Provideocoolition.com or YouTube.com slash Owlbot respectively. And as always, thanks for listening. Thank you.