Frame & Reference Podcast - 8: “Lenox Hill” DP Bryant Fisher

Episode Date: March 18, 2021

This week on the Frame & Reference Podcast, Kenny talks with cinematographer Bryant Fisher about his work on the Netflix documentary “Lenox Hill.” This documentary series give viewers an intimate look at the lives of four doctors as they navigate the highs and lows of working at the renowned Lenox Hill Hospital in New York City. To learn more about Bryants filmography, check out his IMDb page. Enjoy the episode! Liking the podcast? Leave a rating and review on your favorite podcast app! Frame & Reference is supported by Filmtools and ProVideo Coalition. Filmtools is the West Coasts leading supplier of film equipment. From cameras and lights to grip and expendables, Filmtools has you covered for all your film gear needs. Check out Filmtools.com for more. ProVideo Coalition is a top news and reviews site focusing on all things production and post. Check out ProVideoCoalition.com for the latest news coming out of the industry.

Hello, and welcome to this, another episode of Frame and Reference. I'm your host, Kenny McMillan, and today we're talking with Bryant Fisher, the cinematographer of Lennox Hill in We Are Freestyle Love Supreme. Lennox Hill is a docu-series on Netflix about the Lennox Hill Hospital in New York. Both fantastic films, we do talk, or series and film, we do talk about Lennox Hill primarily, but even so, we really talk about almost anything else. This is a great conversation. You know, the idea of dropping in on conversations between cinematographers was kind of the impetus for this podcast. And so, yeah, we're taught, you know, if you love gear, if you love gear talk, you're going to love this one.

You know, we spend the first 10 minutes or so talking about things we love about the Matrix. So, yeah, we had a lot of fun on this one. And hopefully we'll be able to have Bryant back. I will say at the top, we weren't able to use his recorded audio. So you are getting the sort of Zoom AirPod audio. I'm sorry about that. nothing we can do but still worth worth the listen trust me and as a little teaser I think in May completely unrelated we're going to have lens month so we're going to be talking to

Matthew Duclos of Duclos lenses we're going to be talking to Alex Nelson of Xero Optic and I'll have a couple more surprises for you as well so look forward to that we're going to be expanding the pot a little bit you know I would love to start you know speaking of Bill Pope, I would love to start talking to DPs about their previous work. You know, it's awesome to talk about the new things that are happening, but, man, if we could get Bill on to talk about the Matrix or any of his other body of work or anything like that, it'd be great, you know? So I'm just going to put that into the, uh, into the ether, you know, let the, uh, let the world come to me or something, which is not how that works. You definitely

have to send people emails. Anyway, uh, like I said, this conversation with Bryant was a lot of fun. you know, just two D.Bs talking about the things they love and their ideas and so forth and so on. So without further ado, here is my conversation with Brian Fisher. Thank you so much for doing frame and reference. I really, really appreciate it. I got to watch the first episode of Lexa last night. And I was really right off the bat before we kind of get into you. I just wanted to know, obviously you didn't light anything in there. Is the lighting in that hospital just like incredible?

What's going on there? That's funny. I mean, you kind of get, you just get lucky sometimes. And yeah, I mean, the lighting in that hospital just happened to work out really well. And you just, you wind up finding the frames that work. And, you know, in those situations, you're limited on where you can really move anyway. So I don't know. Those are, you just get lucky.

I mean, certainly during a delivery scene, that hot spotlight that comes in that they just need to work with winds up working really well for us. Yeah. Yeah, it's lovely. Because, yeah, there was like a surgery scene and I was in it, and in my head, I guess it makes sense that it was a spotlight that was giving you all that contrast. But in my head, I was like, did he turn off all the lights in the operating room and then they just went for it? Yes, it's all on purpose. We have a surgeon in mind. No.

You know, they just, yeah, we just rolled with what they're doing. You know, we're in their world. That's awesome. Yeah, so we'll get to that in a bit, but starting with you, did you always know you're going to be a documentary cinematographer, or did you start in photography or film school even? Like, how did you get started there? Yeah, I mean, it definitely stemmed from just, you know, watching, I watch these and I connect

with them and that's where I get my kicks. But, yeah, I did film schools. My middle school had a program, so I did photography and video there. So I was learning a lot. And then it sort of, I went into high school. They had a TV program. So I was, you know, getting, I should start over.

My middle school had a specialty program. So I was able to explore photography and video. there. And then same thing in high school. There was a TV studio. So we were experimenting and, you know, playing around there. And I got to learn quite a bit. And then I went to Pratt Institute and they had a film program. And that was that was an art school. So it was more, more experimental focused. And so I got to try a lot of things. I failed a lot. And it was just a place where I got to meet some great life friends and sort of explore them and how I was going to potentially use it. I really know, but I had had an internship. And that was from, I think, my junior

into senior year of high school. And I have just sort of been involved of documentaries. I was with radical media interning, and they specialize quite a bit. And they do a ton of commercial. They do some, you know, some documentary work out of their New York office. And so I was, I was, you know, exposed to a lot of that work. And it was fascinating. And, but I came up in post-production. So I started in their post-production facility. And, you know, I was transcribing. I was doing assistant editing.

I was, I was taken out of the trash. You know, I was just doing everything. But then I was able to fix things. So I became an engineer there. And so I was part of the support staff. But I saw all this amazing footage come through. And it was interesting to see how all of it came together. I was very close with all the editors there.

and I really was interested to go into production from there. So I sort of, I transitioned out. And then that's sort of like where I, you know, began my sort of camera operating in DP career. Do, uh, where, what kind of films were you watching that kind of like got you going, especially going to art school? I assume it wasn't like me. Like I've said this before on this podcast, but like I was watching, you know,

I was wearing out that men in black VHS and like, The Phantom. I just rewatched the Phantom the other night, and I still love it. I mean, I just rewatched the first Batman, the Tim Burton one. I just rewatched The Matrix. I don't know. I'm one that influenced me in childhood over and over. So, you know, I grew up in the 90s, which is a great decade for films. So I don't know. I feel like a lot of those movies have just sort of like really, I don't know, they've baked into my brain. I have this, I, like, I can recite movies, which is kind of crazy. It gets very annoying to some people. I have to curb myself when I'm watching movies with

them. But I don't know. I think, you know, those kinds of things just sort of influence you in the back of your head when you're doing any kind of documentary work. I think, I never knew I was going to go into documentaries per se, but, you know, the more doing it, the more I realize how incredibly lucky you are to be in these situations and to be given access to, you know, very intimate moments in people of lives. And I think that that's, I don't know, that's, that's kind of attractive to me, you know, to be that close to someone and for them to, you know, be okay with allowing the camera around them and to document with them.

Yeah. I actually just for my birthday last year 2019 I was able to see they showed the Matrix in the Dolby theater at the mall near here I I saw that also dude all right did did you find just because I've watched the Matrix a billion times right that's probably one of my all times and I I remember sitting there going like I didn't know that's what that looked like I didn't know like um like there the at the very beginning when the

camera goes through like the matrix code I didn't realize that the black was actually more matrix code it's more code yeah yeah because you know watching it on DVD it was just black right and the matrix was my first DVD so

I was I totally ripped the laser went through that thing you know but when I saw it in Dolby also I was like I first of all I was impressed with just the theater experience like the quality of the picture the sound was incredible. I was hearing bass that didn't modulate ever, and it was rumbling my seat. And so for a movie like that, too, just, you know, something that's been so impactful

to me, and to see it in its best form was like, that's amazing. I'm so happy for that. Yeah, there was actually two things that really struck me. One was I suddenly realized how low budget it actually was. Because in high-depth, you can really tell that they had built the sets out of fucking plywood, you know? Totally, yeah. And there's one scene, there's, I didn't mean to cut you off. No, go for it. Noticing, there was, it's funny that you mentioned that because, uh, rewatching it

recently, I noticed when, uh, Morpheus is on the phone with Keanu, uh, in the office and he's trying to get him to, you know, go out to the roof. Um, when he goes into that office, he doesn't close the door all the way. And you hear it closed and you can see that that door doesn't actually, it wouldn't even be able to close against that wall. It just kind of wedges itself. It's very funny. I'm wondering if there's like a cable that was just going on the floor, you know?

Totally. Yeah. Yeah. The other thing I noticed about that movie was leaving it. I mean, obviously everyone who went really wanted to see The Matrix and theaters, but for the, for 20 minutes, people were just standing outside the theater talking about it. And not just like how cool it was, but like the philosophy of it, shots they loved, like, everything. think. It's still, you know, 20 years later, still 25, whatever it was, still really grabs

me. It was 98, 99, right? Yeah, 99. Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah, it was nice to revisit it, you know, again now and just revisit some of those, like, what did I love about what Bill Pope was doing, you know, what, and the philosophy behind it. I mean, it is really remarkable. And, you know, catching things in the beginning seems to know that they're really foreshadens higher trilogy. Yeah. It's a very good movie. Yeah, it is a very good movie. It's a very good movie. Let's see.

How do we dovetail off that? So anyway, surgeries. Yeah, so surgery's a type. How did you get involved with Lennox Hill as a project? Like, had they found other documentaries you had done? I had worked with the producer of Lennox Hill, Liz Bradley, for many years. Um, so she reached out to me, um, and said that, um, the two directors, uh, Adi Barash and Ruthie Schatz, um, were looking for a DP. Um, and so, uh, yeah, I went, I went to meet them. And we had, you know, we hit it off pretty well, uh, yeah, we just kind of dived in. Liz and I had worked on, gosh, I, I don't even, it's, it's kind of hard to recall, like, exactly which projects we were doing because we both, we both worked out of radical media, honestly. And there were a ton of projects that I was on. you know, different branded things, little dock things through there.

And she was running a whole bunch of ships. So I jumped in whenever she called me. Cool. Did you, do you remember the project that kind of, like, got you, where suddenly you were like, okay, now I'm not just screwing around. Now I'm actually working. My first documentary feature was Hamilton's America. Oh, wow.

I was, yeah, you know, working on a, using, I think we were using a 5D and a C300, you know, the Mark I, and we were with, we were with Lynn for two or three years while he was writing that musical. So it was, it was one of those things where, the director was close friends, old roommates with Lynn. So he had that connection and we just, you know, we just sort of did it on spec. It was like, I don't know what this is going to be. you know he just it's like an off of in the height thing so you know maybe maybe he's got something here so we just started going on these you know shoots every once in a while and eventually it started to become a thing and i realize okay there's there's definitely something here um and uh i i quickly recognize that this i think that the documentary is going to do well just

because this this musical is going to be incredible um and then obviously it it it is it is what it is now. But we were just sort of lucky to be in the beginning. But, yeah, I think that was the first project that I really, you know, understood what I was doing in this world. That's got to be like a New York thing, like where you taking, you know, I'm just going to take this gig and hope it kind of works out. But because New York is so full of people who are just like,

I've always had this kind of impression of like, since you're all living on top of each other and since it's so compressed there's just no time to goof off so everyone's hustling on something so if you're if you show up correct me if I'm wrong but if you show up like something will happen might not be great but something will happen no doubt I I 100% agree and you should show up no matter what it should I mean you know

given circumstances but like yes I did the same thing. Even when I was before that, before Hamilton's America, even during, I was still, I would show up to anything that I could get my hands on because I wanted the experience. I enjoyed the process. And yeah, you're absolutely right. New York, we are on top of each other. In fact, in my building, I've got a director and filmmaker above me and then a producer below me. So in this building alone, we've got one side of the building is all filmmakers. But yeah, you're, you know, It's also supporting one another, show up, be kind, and be helpful. Definitely something's going to happen from that.

That's been a, that was Tobias had mentioned that. There's been a reoccurring theme of like, and this is obvious for people who work in it, but for anyone listening who's still getting started, the being agreeable and working hard and not making life difficult for other people is fucking 90% of the battle. Totally. Totally. I mean, I, you know, there's definitely frustrations, but then there's also amazing positives. And I think, I think people, you know, feed off of each other's energy, and especially

on film sets, you know, it can be very stressful at times. So if you're just cool and collected, then that energy really does flow off of, off of you and, you know, off each other. Yeah, it's definitely something I had to learn. I, for a very, very long time, I was very easy to spark, you know, not necessarily like angry, although sometimes that would happen, but mostly just frustrated. I'd get very quickly frustrated and start to, you know, let other people know how frustrated I was, which was not, way better to just take a lap.

A hundred percent. If you're feeling like that, just take a minute for yourself. Go take a deep breath. It's really not worth it. And I definitely learned that the hard way a couple of times. because it's just not it's not something that anybody around them so why you know why should you show that to someone else that is a good point about showing up is like you said you learned it the hard way I learned it the hard way there's only so much that you can look up read about

etc you just need to start taking jobs finding jobs and that was actually a question that I reached out to the old Reddit to see what kind of questions they would ask if they had this opportunity and a lot of them were like how do I find jobs and I think I would love your opinion my answer I didn't answer them but like my answer is always like you kind of got to make them like you got to you got to think a little harder than just I am a cinematographer I'm a filmmaker I'm a editor whatever and start thinking like a human starting like where can I bring value to someone because especially if you're expecting to get paid like then you need to bring value to the situation.

You have to show that value. If someone's willing to pay you, you need to show that value for sure. And there's also a trust level for someone to offer you money to do a job, especially in a field like this where everyone is, you know, is a creative, right? So everyone's going to be thinking, what, you know, what's this person bringing? Why are they here? Cold, cold emailing. Instagram is amazing, especially during the pandemic.

I mean, like, you can reach out to anybody. Everyone's home. You know, certainly in April, May, when no one's doing anything, that was the time. I mean, even now, I think people are very, very receptive. And I think, honestly, anyone in this business who has had some luck is totally willing to speak with anyone about their process, about how to get started or any advice so you know it's because you know we're no one's living forever everyone's got to continue this so uh it's it's certainly helpful to pass us along and if you if you want it then then ask yeah no no no harm in asking 100% 100% and I'll actually say it kind

of goes both ways the more I've you know I've always been of the mind that just keep doing it like as long as you say something's a thing if you do it long enough it then becomes a thing. So like when I started my production company, it was very much an air quotes production company, but I just kept saying it was a thing. And then eventually people were like, oh, yeah, I guess that's, that's real. And I, you know, I was making, as much as I was making like little web content for brands or fashion videos or whatever, I was also, you know, like trying to build up, you know, a YouTube channel, but I was putting stuff on YouTube just for fun, which eventually became my job at pro video, so to speak. And then,

but you start doing stuff like that. And then one day, like Ernie Gilbert, the editor of Atlanta and this is America and all kinds of great stuff. He actually just made a new film recently, which I'm blanking on the name of. But if anyone's listening, I think Ernie's listening. Go watch Ernie's movie. But he reached out to me and he was like, hey, man, I saw your review on the C-500. I wanted to ask you some questions. And I was like, dude, you're asking me questions.

Like, there you go. You know, it just- Put it out in the world. There's no harm. Yeah. And so now I think we're acquaintances, which is cool. So jumping back into the dock, what was your, we'll just start with gear and that'll probably get us into everything else. What was your shooting package on it? Well, for Lennox Hill, we had an FS7, Mark 2, and everyone gets loved. And that's it. It was plain and simple. Yeah. We used an 18 to 55 Fujian. It was a very, very light camera because we had to hold that thing for hours on end and it served us well. It was a workhorse, you know, that especially that focal length, too.

At first, I was like, oh, wow, we're really only going to go to 55. But yeah, you're only, you're in the tightest spaces anyway. So, you know, it's it's almost egregious at that point to go even further. There are times where, you know, you sort of like, oh, I wish, I kind of wish I can go in a little bit further. but I don't know, there was, there was definitely that, that was the perfect lens for that. Yeah. Historically, I've always shot everything on the, that Sigma 18 to 35. So even 55 is, you know, still a little far.

That's a stretch. That, were you on like an easy rig or anything? Just everything right up in the chest. Everything's on the shoulder. Nope, everything's on the shoulder. I also, you know, for a show like that, I can't, I don't think I would have gotten as smooth the footage and be able to physically move around a hospital with ease while wearing an easy rig as much as it might have saved my back a little bit for something like that I like to feel the connection I mean in general you know I I kind of I'll make myself suffer just because I like the connection of the camera to my shoulder it feels a feel a lot more grounded and it just feels like it's an extension of me rather than a piece of gear that I have to where certainly comes in use for a lot of case scenarios.

But like on We Are Freestyle of Supreme, I would use the easy rig at times. Certainly during like any performance, I wore the easy rig because I was on a long lens. So I was able to get much smoother stuff that way. But you know, when I was in like the dressing room or hanging out with them, I was on the shoulder. Yeah. Are you generally a Sony shooter? Are you pretty camera agnostic?

I'm camera agnostic. although I do, I have, I own a Venice, and now I have an A7 S3. Venice is tight. It's, it's amazing. I bought it too right before we did freestyle. And I knew that we were going to go into a theater situation. I didn't know exactly what the lighting was going to be. Certainly with stage lights in video, that's always an issue.

And, you know, I didn't know exactly what scenarios were going to walk. into. I did a very, very quick test with the Venice. I read up on it. It had been used a little bit. And I think I got it, what was the beginning of 2019. So there had been some stuff out on it already. And I took a clip home. I pushed it around and resolve. And I saw what kind of recovery I can get from highlights and shadows. That was, that's all I needed. And that was in, I didn't even do raw. I was shooting like internal XEBC. Oh, really? Because yeah, most people will shoot the O-X-A-N, X-O-A-N, something like that. X-O-C-N.

Yeah, X-O-C-N. Yeah, not O-A-N, Jesus. And that's, I mean, technically, that's not even raw. That's still some, you know, it's like the raw light. It's a compressed raw. Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of like a loss-less raw codec. It's, you know, it's the same thing that Red's doing, right?

It's just compression rates. But, yeah, even the lowest end, the LT is, is incredibly versatile. in post. So for most scenarios, LT and even ST, I mean, both of them are amazing to work with. Yeah. On Lennox, were you doing your own coloring or was that, or did you have like a show for it or that was sent out? No, I didn't, you know, no show lot. No, we did, we did everything a check of color. And yeah, yeah, it was nice to see it. You know, you watch it all day on this, like I was, I was using the monitor too. I don't know, for some reason, like I, it varies. Sometimes I'm using a viewfinder and I'm really in there, but then sometimes I'm just looking at the

display. And I think for Lennox, something about having just a tiny display and me being able to see the entire room was helpful. Yeah, I was going to say in a hospital. I just got kind of used to that. Yeah, exactly. I'm sort of looking around at all times. And so I have my peripherals a lot more if I'm just, you know, if I have that that monitor. And so, you know, I just had my peeking on and just went with it. Oh, I was using the TILTA, also the nucleus, and that worked out pretty well for us. Although, there's definitely some finicky things with that thing. Like, you go out and you hit a radio frequency and, like, your motor stopped and you lose a shot, and that's awful. Yeah.

It doesn't, like, just go wild on you, just stops, right? No, it goes wild. Oh, no. Yeah, I wish it would just stop. I would have to, yeah, yeah, in the middle of a shot, it'd be like, oh, no, it's buzzing. So then I had to pull the motors, and then I'm up here. manually on the lens, you know, just using the handles of handle instead of actual, you know, motor grips. Yeah.

Did you have input on the color at all? Because I noticed that, like, I didn't know if it was quite, um, uh, sort of the production design, so to speak, quote unquote, but, uh, there's these just very blue and yellow, uh, very strong blue and yellow with very clean whites. And it didn't matter where they were. Like, I have a note here. Even in the subway, like that look is still very clean. Yeah.

Yeah. I sat with Johanse Brown was our colorist. He's amazing and he and Adi were working on the color and I went in for a day to just take a look at and see what they were doing. And I didn't want to step on it because I was really enjoying what they were coming up with. And yeah, I really liked it. And we were able to toggle between SDR and HDR and that was really neat. You know, also just to be removed from the footage for a while and then sit in a suite and then see it. in HDR, I was like, oh, okay, this thing has some, had some depth.

And I was still, still impressed. I mean, the FF7 definitely has its flaws. It's a little noisy for my taste. You know, I still think that for all the rooms that we were in, I think it performed really well. Yeah. And then probably, I assume, Technicolor's got some decent de-noisers at their hands. Yeah.

Yeah, they, they know what they're doing over there. Yeah. What kind of, like, unique challenges were you, were you finding? as a cinematographer working in a hospital, because obviously you've got a lot going on around you, although the hospital does seem to be kind of large in certain spaces. But I would think that, like, proximity to subject would become an issue. You know, like, I can't imagine you're interacting with them at all beyond like,

sorry, hi, you know. You know, it varies. It varies per story, per subject, depend on the situation, depends on the surgery they're having, you know, a lot of the surgeries that were happening in the neuro department were very much planned, and Adi and Ruthie were seeing those stories through. So we knew those people, we would revisit with them, they knew who we were. So it would be a very, how are you? Nice to see you again. Let's, you know, I'll be in the room with you, you know, but, you know, very, very, you know, you're, you're going into some of

these people's best and worst days. So you have to, if you're stepping on anybody's toes, it, you'll, you'll notice it. And you have to be very, very, uh, very cautious with how you move around, but also how you just approach people. Um, you know, they're allowing you in and you're telling their stories. So you have to be very, very, very, very cognizant of that. But I don't know, I enjoyed that, you know, whatever the interaction was, even if it was very little or a lot, getting to know any one of them as brief or for as long as we did was really incredible.

Yeah. What was your approach to B-roll? Because I noticed some very, very measured, kind of composed B-roll. Not that the rest of the show isn't, but I'm always kind of curious about that. I just sort of, you know, I had, we started shooting that sort of towards the end, I would say, when we knew that there was some supplemental footage to get. Ruthie was interested in a very specific kind of style. They really enjoyed very centered kind of frames, very, very static moments, just something to take you out of the kinetic energy that we had throughout the show, just to take you. take a breather. So I tried to find, I tried to find as many of those kinds of frames as

possible. Just, you know, walking around finding something that was already in place. What can I, what can I use here that's existing? I tried to stay rather medium, you know, kind of like in the, probably like, you know, in the 30s to 55 range. And just the idea of, I don't know. I would find something that felt very calm and I would just I would hold it and I would just watch it for a while and feel very good. I did all sorts. I mean, I did everything though. I was doing out of focus. I was doing polls. I was doing all of this. But then, you know, you see what winds up being used. And it worked out really well. Yeah. No, I agree. When kind of coming off the doc, would you say that the majority of your work at this point has been documenting? Do you get to shoot like shorts or anything in general? Yeah, I get to, yeah, I definitely get to. I've done some some funier dye pieces, which are a lot of fun to do. Those are quick and fun and you get to meet some great people.

And I did get to, I worked a little bit on a feature recently, or not recently, it was a while ago, but it's actually going to be released soon. And yeah, there's branded content type pieces that come up, just did something for Uber Eats, and then I did something for, this is more of a, more of a documentary, but it's definitely less verite, but we did a piece for the Masters. I was there in November, in Augusta, and it's the first time they've had the tournament outside of, I think, of, what was it, it's March or April, they usually have it. So, yeah, it's a mixed bag, but I would say that it's sort of like an 80-20.

Most of my work is documentary. How do you approach lighting when you're doing? Like, what's your kind of general, bless you? What's your general sort of, you know, lighting influences? Like, where do you, you know, if you had to set up a shot somewhere, what is your kind of go-to? I don't know if I necessarily have a go-to. It's totally dependent on the location, and I'll get what's right for the location. I like to try to have as much control as possible, but, you know, it really varies.

I mean, if you're setting up a scene, it depends. You know, are you talking about documentaries? Because if you're shooting Verite, I don't set up anything. Right. But if you're setting up an interview, I'll definitely try to, you know, have some kind of a kit. I will generally try to, again, it's dependent on the room. And if I get photos of the room or if I can scout, that's great. That's a luxury.

So, you know, I'll sort of mold it around that and creating a vibe. And then we want to, I'll talk with my directors and see what do we want to, what do we want to feel out of this? And then that will definitely influence if it's going to be, you know, a single light. If we're really going to craft it, are we going to add a. lot of negative how much contrast do we want and so yeah it really does vary i'll typically do something that has a very gentle side push and then something that sort of extends off of that over camera um that's just generally like a nice easy wrap it kind of works on everyone certainly works on glasses that's something i always ask i always ask does our subject wear glasses

if we're shooting in interviewers um because you you got to be prepared for that But yeah, it really does vary. I mean, there's no, there's no one look, you know. Sure. No, that was just another, like, another, once again, another internet question was a lot of people going, like, you know, if you, it's, of course. Have you noticed it's always $1,000? Everyone wants to know what they can get for it, whether it's cameras or lights. Everyone just seems to have $1,000.

I got a music video for $1,000. So the whole music video is $1,000 or your light is $1,000. Yeah, it depends. Like, but. I mean, you know, you can sort of, you know, you see what aperture is doing. They're making incredible lights that are, that are so versatile and super, I mean, they're not super cheap, but like compared to what is available and, you know, what you will typically see on a film set, those lights are cheap.

Yeah. So you have $1,000. Buy a hard light and then soften it. That would be my go. Yeah. Like I was telling you earlier, I got this go docs, SL60. like it's not it's not super powerful necessarily all things considered but it can get the job done in so many situations and i think too if you're if you are the kind of person who's going to color your own stuff

you can definitely bias out the uh or use gels but um you can bias out some of it like this this runs a little magenta i found um right which is which is a little tough on this can test everything test everything um yeah test everything um and yeah i mean i i i mean i i i i i mean i i i own some lighting here, just because there's situations where I know I'm going to, you know, have to go out on a shoot or it just makes more sense. Like, you know, sometimes I don't have a grip and a gaffer team. And so, you know, I need to do all this setup, especially during COVID, we've had to, you know, pare down crews quite a bit. So I wind up doing, you know, a lot of the lighting myself with, you know, with some assistance from maybe a couple of people

who are already there. But, yeah, I have a, I have a Gemini two by one. Oh, nice. A couple of astras. I have the 300D. And I have a, I actually just bought something from Intellitech. They have this amazing light cloth, the mega light cloth. Yeah. And this thing is like, it's out of control.

It's just a huge rectangular light source. It's like four and a half by three or so when you fully, you know, pull it out. It's very convenient. It's nice. I was a, I'm a big top light guy, you know, just kind of the ambient feel kind of thing. And I think I read about that, that light cloth in an ASC magazine at one point. And yeah, I was really interested in that. Is it by color? It is by color, yeah.

Yeah. And the color accuracy is great. I did a very, you know, kind of rough test, just holding up a gray card on the Venice. And it, it was pretty damn near the center. So it was a, it's come in handy. What other, what other kind of, um, just to sit in gear talk because I, you know, I feel like most, most of the cinematographers we've been talking to have not been gear heavy. A lot of, um, you know, theory and whatnot.

What else has been, uh, kind of like, um, getting you excited because definitely for me, like, like you were saying, LED lights are getting really cool. Cameras now, like, part of my job is reviewing cameras. And at this point, my idea has been, That's for cameras. Just buy whatever you want. Literally, any of them. They're all good.

They're all good. It's really like you're starting to really nitpick when you start saying, you know, what's, what's this over that? And it's also a case use. How are you going to use it and just get the thing that you're going to use well or that will serve you in multiple situations? You know, whether it's a, I don't know. The commoto I know is really, really hot with everyone. I know they, they sell the hell out of it just in terms of, you know, their branding and the videos and the, those use cases. But, you know, I just bought the A7S3.

I'm super impressed with this camera. I mean, it is, it's ridiculous what you can do with this thing. And I still haven't figured out how to use all of it. You know, I'm using it right now with a 24 to 70 G master. And it's an auto focus. I mean, this is like, I bought this as like, I have an upcoming. job. It's sort of a, uh, kind of a, it's, it's going to be sort of like a corporatey branded kind of a piece. Um, and I'm working with some old friends. And so I just picked this up. I got the Ronan,

uh, the, uh, the, uh, the bang for your buck in these, in this setup is absolutely astounding. Yeah. I'm used, I'm not used to holding these kinds of things. I have, I have the original loan in here, which if anybody wants it, give me a call. Yeah, I know. I saw that, I saw that face. Yeah, it's like, oh, okay. This Ronan, I mean, I don't know. I forget how much that's supposed to hold, but this thing is supposed to hold 10 pounds. It's tiny. And no cameras are 10 pounds, like, at least not stock. No. The Venice body, I think, might be like seven. So you're really, really, you know, challenging it there. But I mean, if you're putting like a mini or a mini LF or even this A7S, this is no problem with it. And it's smooth. They integrated everything really, really well. And this is like, it's still new. So I'm sure they're going to be doing all sorts of updates with it over time. But I'm sort of, I've bought into the Sony ecosystem.

I was with Canon for a while. I had a, I had a C-300. I had the 5D. And I even, I went to Panasonic. I had the EVA-1, which is an amazing camera still is. So if you can get your hands on that, that's a good go. I went to them. the launch of that and I remember thinking like Johnny Durango from episode one yeah he shot one of

their like test movies for that camera and I just remember his was the only one that looked good in my opinion sorry to everyone else who shot for that like because it was all great I thought so too I agree with you but it wasn't there it wasn't therefore I think what what's her name oh goodness Ellie she had shot something that looked great but I felt like that camera was like a little sharp is a little little still two video whereas the Veracam I still think is a fantastic camera

but nobody uses The Veracan is incredible and no one in touch of it I was debating actually between the Venice and the Vericam but for my purposes I needed two card slots the Veracam

LT only has one and I was not going to be I just knew I didn't want to be in a situation where I'm out a card I'm in the middle of a scene and I got to pop a new card in And I know media in general is just expensive, but I thought the media was kind of pricey.

And I don't know, the Venice was definitely the sort of a future buy too. I felt like there was a lot, there's a lot that they're going to do, I think, with that camera. It has a removable sensor block. That to me was like, oh, so you could just upgrade this thing for how many years. Like, when is it? And you can just change the board whenever you need to. I mean, you know, there's there's a whole lot that I think that they have. haven't done with this camera yet and still it's it's like incredible now yeah and there's definitely

like i have like i said the c 500 mark two and it was kind of like a future buy thing where i was like i don't need full frame but there are things that you do that like it looks fantastic like i love yeah but um over there is it looks it looks lovely exactly there's a video about that for anyone listening um on strangel but uh there is definitely something about like the venice especially especially people, some people buy Alexa's and that's like sick, but there's a confidence. You'll always get use out of it too.

Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, you can still buy, you can buy an Alexa classic on eBay for five grand and it's still the, you know, exact same sensor and all that. But there is that sort of element of not only future-proofing, but confidence. You know, if you own a Venice,

you can, anyone calling you say like, hey, we need this to look as best as possible. You're like, well, this camera shot top gun. So is that good? And they're always like, uh-huh. It's a decent selling point. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Do you find that on like smaller gigs like that you have to sell the package and all that? Are you at the point now where you just rent and then they sign the check? Yeah, not necessarily. I mean, it depends. Sometimes, you know, if I'm at the beginning of a project, I will definitely, you know, if it, and if it makes sense, let's try Venice. Let's see how it works for this show. And certainly put it through its paces.

If someone doesn't like the look, which I can't imagine why, you know, we, we'll go with something else. But, you know, it really just depends on what the, what the project calls for. But I've found that the camera works in pretty much any scenario. You can build it up and down. And, yeah, I've made it work. Did you get the extension block on it? Because I know those are always included with the Rialto. No, not the, not that part, but the back, the recorder.

The raw recorder? Yeah, I feel like that's kind of necessity. It's fully, yeah. At first, though, I did not. With Freestyle Love Supreme, we didn't shoot raw. We shot X-ABC 480. And that was an interesting test for me to know how far can this go. And then I see it, you know, you see it on Hulu and it looks incredible. You know, I saw even the in high speed at 2,500, you know, just to be able to like really quickly flip like, oh man, I got to go to 96 frames, but I'm under. So just change your ISO, and it's clean. It's so good.

It's just like in all those kinds of scenarios, like I said, I was like, I don't know what I'm going to be walking into. So I just want something that's going to be super versatile, very fast and reliable. And that thing is, that thing is a beast. So it works in everything. Yeah. Yeah, that's another. Like I think that's kind of the distinction now, isn't it?

between like cinema bodies and DSLRs is like DSLRs and cinema bodies can definitely get you the exact same image, but it's the, obviously, the usability and the flexibility that you get with the bigger, bigger bodies. Yeah, it's all functionality. It's access to the menus. It's really how often you're kind of, you know, changing those things out. Yeah. I do remember when the Venice came out, again, lucky me writing for Pro Video.

I got sent to the, and living in L.A. got sent to the launch event for the Venice. And I remember my first note was they just straight up stole the side from an Alexa. Yeah. The screen with the six buttons. Why change it? If it ain't broken. Completely.

I really like the operator's side, that little OLED too. It's great. It's really great. And in the recent update, I think it might have been in firmware six, or at least I noticed it in firmware six. when you switch frame rates, it will show a fit, it'll show if you're fixed at 23998. And then when you start toggling through, it'll show you the various, it's basically like S&Q, right? So you just flip into whatever you need and it's there. What I'm really, really hoping for, and if anybody from Sony is watching this to allow operator's size to change the base ISO somehow, there is a way.

There's three buttons on that panel, and you can. not I maybe I've completely missed it and I don't know how to do it but if you go to like the ISO you know menu and you have it highlighted like NDs you can flip through and they're fast right and ISO it's just up and down at the base I can't you know I maybe I need to explore it more and I don't know but I would love to be able to just like if you're on that menu maybe like hit up and down at the same time that just toggles your base something where I can do that that quickly because otherwise I have to turn the camera around to change my base

ISO yeah maybe there's a maybe I can make a user button for it I don't know but yeah I know I know the Canon people listen because I've got I won't say I have a relationship with Canon but over the years you know especially because I use their stuff we've had chats but Sony Sony invited me out for one for the RXO launch and I was not that impressed with that camera like is is fine but it wasn't like yeah to replace the front glass, it cost $100. And I was like, why is it glass? Like, if this is supposed to be an action cam, what are you doing?

And they never, I haven't heard from them again. So hopefully we can get them back. What's the last movie you watched? What did I watch? Oh, we watched The Matrix last night. Oh, really? Yeah. What about before that?

Because we just talked about that. We just talked about it. Let me see. What was the last movie? I watched, God, what was it? Well, I watched Ma Rainey. Oh, cool.

That was awesome on Netflix. That was really, really good. What a great story. And I've been flipping through seeing, because HBO has been doing all these kinds of, HBO Max has stuff coming out like every week. Yeah. And they just, we've been watching, like,

I'm watching Amy Schumer just as like a break from movies. I need, you know, an episode of comedy. Right. But we watched Batman, the Tim Burton Batman. God, what else? We watched casino recently. Oh, nice. Oh, God, I can't get enough of that movie.

Like God, you're just like, how? How? Yeah, the lighting. That's budget. Yeah. talking about the Matrix with no budget casino my god those some of those scenes are really remarkable what a what a style you know just to be able to be so consistent throughout that story and and tell it like that i mean that it's just it is premium

earlier when we were talking about how like the late 90s was definitely like a golden age i think like the late 70s and the late 90s were definitely like the two golden ages of cinema Do you see, do you see us kind of finding another one? Because like both of those were pushed by, you know, in the 70s it was directors being given way more leeway and budgets being thrown around. In the 90s, it was new technology, you know, CG and also just, um, D.I., all kinds of things like that. Do you see another point coming up soon? Because I don't feel like we're in, we're definitely in the golden age of television, you know, cinema quality television. television series but yeah yeah i don't know i mean i feel like the last year that i felt like

movies felt like that was when you had there will be blood and no country for old men the same year like that was kind of a ridiculous time to to be in the movie uh i don't know i thought there will be blood i think like six times in the theaters i couldn't get enough of it yeah that's a that's a strong film yeah yeah i mean i i just i wanted to watch it i couldn't wait for any kind of disc release to watch it again just to analyze like the movie's incredible but then i wanted to analyze it and didn't really understand what robert eliz what was doing like i just i it's it's striking but um yeah i don't know it's it's hard to say i still i don't know i mean it'd be lovely for theaters to to be able to go to a theater again so let's start with that

sure um so we can go there um but i don't know you know there's i feel like you know in the 90s there wasn't any streaming right so everything was put into those those big budget movies um and you know money gets tossed around that way but now everything is getting tossed is like you see some of the budgets that get sort of released for you know what gets bought for an apple show or for a hulu you know hulu breaks a record by buying what was it spring breakers right right, for buying a film, and then for, even for Netflix. I mean, they have stuff going on all year. And I don't know, I feel like the distribution and the gamut of filmmaking has expanded quite a bit.

I mean, the access to technology allows people who didn't traditionally have, you know, an ability to tell a story and to share it now can, certainly with the phones. I mean, you can do anything. So I don't know. I think it's just a matter of like how maybe how like, you know, studios we're making money off of those movies, right? Forever. So it's just a matter, I think, of, you know, how we're going to consume this stuff, how we want to watch these things, what stories we want to see. Because I think that's changing also what people actually want to see.

Yeah. And so I think that's going to really drive what we do see. and because people want whatever we want to see a studio might pick up on that and say all right let's put money into this or even independent company will say let's try to make this because then people will go to buy it yeah because that's the that's like the Netflix strategy right they don't they don't really go for tent pole films anymore they're always they have like the algorithm that tells them like if you put this actor in this genre with this director people watch it or they go like super neat yeah yeah they'll do or they'll do something like um like anima the paul thomas anderson uh film with uh with tom york did you see that i had no i didn't see it it's gorgeous uh darius kanji shot this like beautiful short film how did i miss that netflix dude just watch that over and over what a beautiful piece i just got beautifully choreographed the music i mean listen to the the anime album also that's just gorgeous but um you know that was something i was very happy to see

someone like netflix pick up like oh okay they're still they're still interested in you know like short art formats not just these you know heavy long series or or or features or like that that was like really really amazing stuff so i hope they keep doing things like that i think people want to see, because there's still room for short things to live, especially on TV. Yeah. No, I'm wondering, too, like, with this past year, if people are over, like, I kind of lamented for a long time the lack of escapism in cinema. Everything was very real and very dark, and, you know, I partially blame Batman for

that, the Dark Night kind of. Everything needs to be gritty. But even that is like escapism. But I'm wondering if now that everyone's been stuck in their homes, we're just going to see like just an explosion of, of maybe not aspirational. I love a dark gritty film. But just escapism.

I don't want to be, I don't want to be reminded of anything in reality right now. Well, how many, you know, how many films are we going to want to see that are, you know, that are not just gritty.

Like you're saying gritty like the way that they look or the content the content because I feel like the content okay because I feel like a lot of movies definitely are shape looks there's certain you know people are doing things that that kind of like look the same yeah um but I don't know I feel like it's really going to be like you said it's it's totally story driven so I I do think people are going to want that like when people can safely leave their homes for extended periods of time and see their family and hug a friend, you know, that's, that feeling will get, you know, that's, it's like it's overwhelming that we can't do that now. So having some kind of escapism would be great. But yeah, I feel like

there's, there's definitely got to be that. Like someone's writing like the next great movie right now. So I'm, I'm, I'm looking forward to what's, what to come. Yeah, I remember I was watching a clip of Tarantino just like screaming about how the second we don't use film anymore, it's the death of cinema. But then he also added that with digital, you get, like you were saying, every voice can be heard now. And that's going to raise the signal to noise ratio. There's going to be a lot of crap out there. Totally. Even so, if you're good, you're good.

You know, it's like, I just, this is a silly. the example, but look at Billy Eilish, right? Like, yeah, she had a lot of things going for, but she's good. When we all heart, this cat is getting after it. Um, you know, uh, it's, it's, I, I am excited for that. And it, you know, to be perfectly honest, like the, the, the current climate, not, not 2020, but just like the, the ability to get out there and make stuff helped me be successful, for sure, you know. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it enabled me, you know, having, Also, you know, it doesn't always help you, but it certainly doesn't harm you to have, have a camera. So you can offer up, like you said, it's like, what are you offering?

Not just your talent, but your ability to like, you know, I can, I can do something right now. Yeah. You know, and I can help out. And I don't know. I think it's just, that's what I did when I was a kid. I was messing around with like the, we had, you know, the family camcorder. I was shooting on VHSC. And eventually, then eventually it was.

was mini dv and a you didn't stop by high eight you didn't give high i don't know if we used high i don't know if we used high i don't know if we used high eight we probably did there's no way we didn't the so because yeah we did we did generational yeah because we had the vhsc then high eight right and then i got an excel too oh nice good for you i was stunting on the high schoolers i had i think uh oh gosh which i had like a cannon d something or other was the tiny mini dv camera the gl2 um and then no it wasn't even a g l oh uh it was it was like a it was a camcorder like this little you know thing the size of maybe an a7 s3 now yeah but uh yeah no i was messing around with those and then you know i working uh interning i had access to like tape decks

and editing software and computers and so i learned quite a bit messing around there i'd take my footage you know and and do some of that on my off time there yeah no that was great man if anything that's a technology that no one i don't think anyone values as much as they should and that is not having to run tape through a deck you don't get any scramble if you're not doing two three pull down it does it does clips it's right instead of just one big long 500 gigabyte file although now we're back up to five five Now we're back, now we're back to 500 gigs, yeah, but at least it's more man. Everything's just, yeah, everything's, everything's digital.

You got a card now instead of a tape. I remember having to, you know, lay off for broadcast, getting everything off of, you know, final cut, we would lay off to HD cams, S.R. Right. That was, you know, just the technicals of having to, you know, stripe it with time code. And all, and every step you could screw up. And then it gets rejected. You're like,

drop, there's a drop frame. This is a two hour long show. Okay, where did we drop the frame? Now we got to roll it back to this cut point. So we have a clean edit on the tape. Frame accuracy. Yeah. Well, we're, we're coming up on an hour.

I feel like we should just do a part two like next week and we can just keep going. Let's do it, man. I would love to. I love having these kinds of. conversations. I want to have more of them. Yeah. Well, then we'll, fuck it. We'll get you on the schedule. But to wrap it up, because I'm going to need that coffee

at some point, at the moment, I'm ending every podcast with the same two questions. What everyday things do you find most important that have helped you in your career and also feel for you to plug any personal projects?

Wow. What everyday things have helped me personal career. Well, I guess I don't know, it was my personality in everyday thing. That's helped me. Tobias said being kind, yeah. That's, honestly, that's it. I'm open to hearing everyone no matter what.

Because, you know, I don't know. I'm just curious about people, tendencies, idiosyncrasies. I like that kind of thing and I like learning about people. So I think that's what has certainly helped me in documentary is, you know, a strong subject. You're like, oh, this is going to be great. I want to be, I want to be in that. So I don't know. I like to think that I'm a good listener.

I try not to speak very much. I'm just, I'm kind of quiet, except during our discussion. Dude, I don't know. I just. Let me tell you for, for a podcast, like I had to, the first few of us. episodes, I definitely know I talked too much. I'm a big, I'm a big, I'm a chatty guy for sure. Yeah, well, maybe this could be my outlet. I could just talk it up here and then just remain quiet behind the camera like I did. Yeah. And then what was the, I'm sorry, the second.

Personal project. Do you want to plug anything? You want to send anyone to a website or anything like that? Are you just doing a photo book, you know? Yeah, right. Check out. I'm doing it. Actually, I would love to do a photo book. I've been taking so many photos. And I still need, I'm terrible. I need to catalog everything. I would love to put everything together. I want to print some all my stuff, photo book together. But I would say, I don't know, visit my website. Go to Bryantfisher.com. And then I would say check out, check out Lenox Hill on Netflix if you want to have some feels and watch some really great stories. And then also, we are Freestyle Love Supreme on Hulu. Another wonderful documentary that I spent some time with with some great

creatives. And then we have some upcoming things. I think in March or April, an Apple TV series I've been doing is going to come out another documentary series about mental health and mental wellness. Oh, wow. And then I'm not sure I think it's sometime this month there is, I don't know when this comes out, but There's going to be a piece about the master's coming. We shot that in November. Oh, and check out, right before the pandemic really landed in the United States. I did a Bon Jovi music video at Abbey Road.

Nice. With the Invictus Choir. So check that out. That's on YouTube. That was a lot of fun. Wow. Yeah, I'll probably check that out when we hang up. That sounds dope.

Yeah. No, it was great. I mean, he was fantastic. So that's all we've got time for, but thank you so much for being on Frame and Reference. And like I said, we'll 100% just have you on, I don't know, if you want to be a reoccurring guest, that'd be great. You know, we need those. I would be more than honored. Yeah, I'd be honored.

Thank you for having me. This is a lot of fun. Let's definitely do it again. For sure. Frame and Reference is an Owlbott production. It's produced and edited by me, Kenny McMillan, and distributed by Pro Video Coalition. Our theme song is written and performed by Mark Pelly, and the Effad Art Mapbox logo was designed by Nate Truax of Truax Branding Company. You can read or watch the podcast you just heard by going to Pro Video Coalition.com or YouTube.com slash Owlod, respectively.

And as always, thanks for listening.