Frequent Miler on the Air - Capital One's Venture X: Will it bury Chase's Sapphire Reserve? | Ep123 | 11-6-21

Episode Date: November 6, 2021

1:21 What crazy thing....did X1 do this week? https://frequentmiler.com/x1-card-review-up-to-4x-everywhere-its-here-its-real/ 6:33 Mattress Running the Numbers: Is it worth spending $8K for a Hilton free night certificate if targeted? https://frequentmiler.com/hilton-free-night-certificate-offer-with-just-8k-spend-targeted/ 11:58 Main Event: Capital One's Venture X: Will it bury the competition? https://frequentmiler.com/capital-one-venture-x-card-a-strong-new-ultra-premium-contender/ https://frequentmiler.com/huge-if-true-convert-capital-one-cash-back-to-miles-by-moving-rewards/ 48:47 Post Roast https://frequentmiler.com/build-your-amex-point-fortune-up-to-620k-points-with-25k-spend/ How to refer someone to almost any Amex card: https://youtu.be/Tx4o3X7TgMQ https://frequentmiler.com/is-it-time-to-ditch-all-of-your-marriott-credit-cards/ 57:41 Question of the Week: Is 50K World of Hyatt points appropriate compensation for missteps? Join our email list: https://frequentmiler.com/subscribe/ Music credit: Annie Yoder

Let's get into the giant mailbag. What crazy thing did Citi do this week? Time for Mattress Running the Numbers. Ready for the main event? The main event. Frequent Liler on the air starts now. Today's main event, Capital One's Venture X. It's their new ultra premium card. The question for today is, will it bury Chase's Sapphire Reserve card? I mean, that's the target. That's tough talk. It is tough talk, but Sapphire Reserve laid down the gauntlet years ago, became the card to beat in the ultra premium space. And so now we're going to look at this new one from Capital One and say, is it it?

Is this finally the killer? We'll find out. I think it's at least a coupon book burner. We'll see. That could very well be it. Yep. Okay. So you know what?

We are not going to do giant mailbag today because, you know, we don't have more mail regarding the JetBlue spend 15K thing. We finally got it right. There's nothing more to say. It's been the regular thing. I'm kind of lying. We actually do have some more mail about that. I just don't want to talk about it anymore. Moving on. All right. So then let's talk about what crazy thing did X1 do this week? I mean, first of all, what is X1 for people who missed your post and what did they do that was crazy? Yeah. VentureX is not the only X card. It's not the only X-rated card we're going to talk about today. Uh-oh, watch out. We're going to get censored on this. It's going to be like a

parental advisory now. Oh no, you're right. I should have never said that. Oh, boy. Anyway, X1 is a startup company credit card that it delivers 2X everywhere or 3X to those who spend $15,000 a year on the card. And it sounds very compelling on paper, but the rollout has been very, very slow. So they just opened it for customers very recently. But to give an example of how slow the rollout has been, I have a friend who was number 11 on the waiting list. He still has not gotten the invite. Wow.

Wow. They're being deliberate on this. They're being very deliberate. And there might be very good reasons for that. And let's get into this story from a reader, actually someone on our Frequent Miler Insiders Facebook group. He messaged me personally and said that he was one of the people to get the X1 card early. Now, one way to get it besides being on that waiting list is if you get referred by somebody who has

the X1 card already, then you skip the waiting list. And each person who already has it only has a few referrals. But each time they already has it only has a few referrals. And so, but each time they refer someone, they get a few referrals. So it kind of goes out that way. So he, he got one and he went to use it for the first time ever at Best Buy and he went to buy a laptop. Seems reasonable. You want to earn some points. You got to buy something. You need a new laptop. It's like a person with a credit card might do. Right. It seemed reasonable.

The transaction got held for potential fraud, which is also not unusual when you have a brand new credit card and you go to do a big purchase. It's not at all unusual for it to get held up initially. Which is frustrating because, I mean, that's the obvious thing, right? You opened a new card so that you could put your new purchase on your new card and then the bank inevitably lost. I mean, this happens all the time. It's not only of X1. Fraud alert. It's silly and ridiculous, but it happens a lot. Right, right. But one of the things he discovered from this experience is that they don't have a good system for quickly undoing that fraud hold. So he didn't have anyone he could call. He had to email and it took a long time for them to get back to him.

But even worse, when they finally did get back to him, they said his account was flagged for rewards abuse and was shut down. What? What? His first purchase was rewards abuse? What? Yeah. There's not even a bonus category on a new laptop, right? No.

No, there's not. I mean, that was like a 1X purchase. Well, I mean, everything is at least 2X. Or 2X, whatever. Everything is. I mean, they just didn't want them to buy anything anything nothing so otherwise you're abusing your rewards by earning them i mean is that you abuse them by earning any rewards at all that's ridiculous right so so the crazy thing x1 is doing it obviously they're they're being way overzealous

in shutting some people down uh he said he has a friend who had a similar experience, the person who referred him, I assume. And, you know. So maybe he just got, you know, guilty by association. When their whole thing is getting word out through referrals, like that seems to be their way of getting this card known. Having these like bad stories off the bat is a really, really bad idea. Maybe it's a good idea not to move to number 11 on that list.

Well, that's exactly it. That's my guess is that they probably stopped moving people off the waiting list because they're having big problems. So hopefully they'll get them resolved. But for now, boy, X1, I sure hope you go back to these people that you shut down, review these cases and say, oops, we made a mistake. And if it was me, I would offer them some bonus or something as an apology because there's no excuse. And their card opened again. Yes. There is just no excuse for that at all. Not at all. Not at all. And yeah, that's that's horrible. That is great. So that really fits for a crazy thing. I was pretty interested in the card. But if I can't buy a laptop and it wasn't even like a really expensive laptop, was it? I think you said it was like

not that much money, right? Actually, I don't know how much. Okay. I thought you said how much it was. Maybe not. I may be making that up. But at any rate, so even if it was a super expensive laptop should have been should have been no problem anyway crazy crazy crazy right all right nuts so now that we're talking about spend and spending a lot let's talk about mattress running the numbers because this week we have a mattress run well sort of not a traditional mattress run a credit card run in order to get a mattress or, well, okay. You just explain it, Greg. What's going on with Hilton this week? All right. So Hilton has sent to some Hilton Aspire credit card holders, an amazing offer. It's basically spend $8,000 and you get a free

night certificate. Awesome. Awesome. Do we even need to analyze this? I mean, to me, it's like no brainer. I mean, if you have the offer, do it. Awesome. to do that spend each year for the free night. This is like half the spend about half the spend $8,000 and a free uncapped night. And the nice thing with Hilton is that it's totally uncapped. Well, I say that it's uncapped for a standard room, but that means even that like the Waldorf Astoria Maldives that charges like 150,000 points per night. Now you can use it there and not pay a resort fee. I don't think at the Waldorf Astoria. And so it's a pretty good night and valid any night of the week. And they made that clear, even if yours gets issued next year, which it probably will because of the amount of time it takes

for them to issue certificates anyway, it will be valid any night of the week through the end of the year. And to be clear, that's notable because normally, under normal circumstances, the Hilton free night certificates are weekend only. Right. Redemptions. So it seems like a great deal. But a couple of readers took me to task on that.

And they said, OK, is it really a good deal? Because they said $8,000 spend could earn you a new welcome bonus or two. So how can you justify spending $8,000 on a free night certificate? Now, I should have looked it up. I don't remember. Do you remember off the top of your head what we value the free night certificates at? No, I don't know. I want to say it's $250-ish.

And if it's $250, that's like 3.1% or so. And they were like, I could do better than that on my other cards or on welcome bonuses. What do you think? I mean, yeah, on welcome bonuses what do you think um i mean yeah i mean with welcome bonuses sure you could do better with that but uh you know this is one of those things you already have the card you there's no questions about can you get another one if you get it if you get another one will it stop you from being able to get a new chase card or whatever. There are hidden costs to signing up for new cards that is just not a factor here. If we're just looking purely at just the offers that are in front of you, you have the ability to earn a free night with $8,000 spend compared to spending on a, well, a 2% cash back card, you'd be getting $160 back,

but this you're getting both the Hilton points from the spend and the free night certificate. So you're getting just way, way more than a straight up type of cash back thing. I totally agree with you. I thought it was a ridiculous argument, but I mean, not a ridiculous argument. Of course, like you said, yeah, absolutely. Welcome bonuses. You do much, much better. But I would think that if you are paying for a Hilton Aspire card, for instance, you're paying the 450 per year for that card, at least, then you value the free night certificate enough that it'd be a terrific return on $8,000 spent here on top of the points you're going to earn. If you got this on the surpass card where you can spend it at a US supermarket and get six points per dollar plus. So it's like 48,000 points plus a free night certificate. Hello. And if you're currently working on a

free night certificate from the surpass, I assume that the spend will double count. It will count towards the 15,000 for the annual night. So I didn't know, did people with the surpass card also get this offer? I thought it was just a spy. No, I thought so too initially, but no, it turned out we had several readers who commented to say they got this on

the surpass card and that they were working on the 15 K spend for the free night on that card. And they asked whether or not this would double count. And I assume it will. I assumed so too. That's an amazing deal. That gets crazy. Good.

It does. It does get crazy good. So I think if you've got an inspire and you got targeted for this, you've got to do it. I think it's well amazing deal. That gets crazy good. It does. It does get crazy good. So I think if you've got an Aspire and you got targeted for this, you've got to do it. I think it's well worth it. Even if you value that night, like I said, at 250, it's like 3.125% back plus whatever points you earn on spend. So you're looking at four to 5% back if you value that free night, pretty low. And if you value it more, because you're going to use it at a place that's five or six or eight or a thousand dollars a night or something like that. I mean, hello, terrific deal. So definitely do it if you can, by the way, that email. So you're gonna see the

post link in the show notes, but the email is the generic, like here's your monthly card members perks email, and it's just buried in there. So it doesn't stand out in your inbox. You've got to actually look at that. I always ignore those. No, who doesn't? Everybody ignores those things, right? I mean, never click on those, right? I wouldn't have if a reader hadn't clicked on it first and sent it to me and said, wow, I couldn't believe this. Is this legit? You know, my wife only got three times points, but I have this offer for a free night. This can't be true, right? And I was like, I guess it is. So yeah, anyway, make sure that you, you hopefully didn't delete that and you take a look. Otherwise I think

there's a link and I'll hopefully have that added to the post where you can check and see if you're targeted. Yeah. Yeah. That'd be great. All right. So welcome to the main event, the main event venture X that's what capital one chose to go with for the name of their new ultra premium card. What kind of a name is Venture X? I don't know. I was not impressed with that. I was like, that does not scream premium. Does it scream premium to you? Am I wrong? No, but if you look at it their way, if they went with something like Venture Platinum, that'd be copying off Amex. If they went with Venture Infinite, it'd be copying off of US Bank. If it's Venture Reserve, that's an obvious copy off.

But you need a word. Don't you need a word to make it feel premium? A letter? Come on. I don't know. I mean, X is sort of the letter one of the one of the letters to make it seem modern and and cool and and like dot com ish um you know i think the letters i and x are both you know often used in in that kind of context so i don't know this is

not that though you know like no no definitely not that whatever this is a very this is like the most traditional sort of boring not in a bad way like this is a good card i think but it's not new and exciting in like any way no i mean that's that's what killed me about it i saw the email whenever whenever we got the info here. I saw the email and I was like, I think I got it in the morning because I think I was still kind of tired. And I scrolled through it kind of quickly. And I was like, what is this? Is that it? I felt very disappointed. Why would I want this? It's basically my venture card with $395 annual fee. But then after you had me look at it a little bit more, and now that we've had time to

think about it and post it and get rid of reaction, I realized the card is awesome. It's actually really good, except it's just not new. There's nothing. All right. Tell us the basics of the card. What do you get? So you pay a $395 annual fee on the card and the initial welcome bonus looks good, but we'll talk about that in a second. So for the 395 ongoing, what you get is a $300 travel credit has to be used through Capital One Travel. So you got to be booking flights or hotels through Capital One Travel. That's not amazing. It's not as easy to use as others, but probably still pretty easy to use. Well, I'm sure we'll talk more about that. So $300 annual credit plus 10,000 miles at every anniversary, 10,000 capital one miles, which can get transferred to partners, or you can use to erase travel at one cent each. So it's a hundred dollars worth of travel or

potentially more if you make use of transfer partners or snag a transfer bonus, et cetera. Card comes with priority pass for the primary card holder and for the authorized users. So you get priority pass with two guests. So as good as anybody else's priority pass these days, except for the Ritz maybe, but as there's the Sapphire reserves priority pass anyway. So priority pass for you plus two guests, same deal for your authorized users. Authorized users, by the way, are free. It doesn't cost anything to add them. You also get Capital One lounge access for free. So do your authorized users. You get Hertz Platinum, or I'm sorry, Hertz President Circle status for you and for your authorized users. Unfortunately, no big spending bonuses. It's 2X everywhere, just like the Venture Card.

10X when you book some types of travel through the Capital One Travel Portal and 5X for other types of travel. Hopefully, Greg remembers the difference. The 10X is what? Hotels and cars? I do. 5X is flights? Yep. You got it. Okay, good. Dodged a bullet there. Can you remember where we've heard that before? 10X for hotels and cars through a portal and 5X for airfare?

Well, there's a reason why I was able to guess that correctly because I assumed it's probably exactly the same as the Chase Sapphire Reserve, which if you've been listening along, almost everything else sounds exactly the same, right? It basically sounds like they took the Sapphire Reserve and added an extra point per dollar, didn't bonus general travel, and gave you a little bit more back.

I mean, they kind of copied here, didn't they? These travel portal rewards, though, are so specific and so exactly the same as Sapphire Reserve that I had two sort of opposing thoughts here. One is sort of like, oh, come on, did Capital One really just straight up copy this from Chase? But the other thought, Chase didn't make those changes that long ago. What if they caught wind of what Capital One was about to do and decided to proactively provide that same benefit so that they wouldn't be one up by Capital One's new card? I think that's actually a pretty reasonable conspiracy theory, because additionally, adding to that intrigue is the fact that Capital One, of course, launched this new

card in the 10X, 5X thing and also just launched their own travel portal. And wouldn't you know it just this week, Chase kiboshed Expedia and changed their travel portal to their in-house system. Almost like 10 minutes ahead of Capital One here in terms of when they were going to launch the new card. It does kind of seem like maybe Chase has a mole there. It's very interesting anyway. Either Capital One's being like as boring as possible by just copying, copying and pasting the marketing material or they are, uh, or they go, yeah. Yeah. Corporate espionage. Right. I don't know. But, but anyway, so, I mean,

so those are the general key benefits, right? I think there's a couple other things. There's cell phone protection. I don't think Sapphire reserve has that one. I think they're outdoing them there. Um, and then it's going to have travel protections and extended warranty that we don't have the full details on that yet, but I did see that that was in there too. So we're going to find out something more about that hopefully by the time this publishes. So it's got something hopefully on par with the Sapphire reserve for the travel protections. I had my fingers crossed there and a primary rental car coverage, of course. Yes. All right. So sort of stepping back a little bit, first of all, anyone who has a venture today

or has been planning on getting their venture and thought that that was a good deal to have that card, I think almost any of them will be better off with this new VentureX. So yes, the VentureX costs $300 more, but don't forget that $300 travel rebate with your book travel through the portal, plus 10,000 miles you get automatically every anniversary. So- Why wouldn't you pay $300 for $300 in travel credit plus 10,000 miles, unless you really don't value miles at all, which if you don't, then what are you doing with the venture card in the first place? But otherwise I, yeah, it just makes sense. And initially I was like, I don't really want to pay $300 for that. But then

I was like, wait a second. Why wouldn't I? I mean, 7,500 capital one points transferred to Turkish, get me a one way United Economy ticket to Hawaii, Alaska, wherever else in the US I want to go if there's availability. And you can actually get Turkish to book it and blah, blah, blah. There's some caveats there. But 10,000 miles, my point is, is much more valuable to me than $100. So paying $300 for 300 in credit plus that makes sense, even before you consider the fact that this is going to have a really good welcome bonus too.

Right. So you got a bunch of miles out of the gate. Do you want to talk about the welcome bonus? 100,000 capital one miles after 10K spend in six months. So a little steep on the spending requirement, but 100,000 transferable points. Plus because everything is 2X, your $10,000 spend is going to yield you another 20,000 miles at least. So you're going to end up with 120,000 total miles after 10K spend. That's pretty terrific to begin with.

That's very good. And if you think about the old venture, when venture went up to 100K, if I remember right, it required 20K spend, not 10K. So this is considerably better than that. Considerably better than that. And they're attacking on a $200 statement credit in the first year for vacation rentals. So you book a vacation rental, use your card for it, get $200 back.

So anybody who's interested in a vacation rental booking, that's, you know, again, a pretty close to cash value sort of a benefit. So lots of miles. I just have to get this in there. This just occurred to me. So one of the things Chase did even more recently than the 10X, 5X thing is they added a new thing to pay yourself back, which is Airbnb. You can book Airbnb and pay yourself back with points.

There's a mole, Capital One. Well, no, no. Now I'm not going that way. The way I'm going with this one is Capital One's like all ready to release their new X card. And then Chase does that with Airbnb. And they're like, oh, man, we have to throw in something. We don't have time to change the card's benefits. So let's just add something to the welcome bonus.

All right. Maybe. Just this temporary credit for vacation rentals. Yeah, maybe. Maybe that's the way it went. It certainly could be. I mean, these are not all that far-fetched. So, I mean, that's the way it went. It certainly could be. I mean, these are not all that far-fetched. So, I mean, that's a great deal. 10K spent 120,000 miles, transferable miles. And

you have to remember, if you've been sleeping for the last couple of months here, the Capital One now transfers one-to-one to all of their airline partners except DVA. So basically all of the airline partners you're ever going to use are one-to-one hotel partners are mostly one-to-one a core live limitless is different but windham is one-to-one anyway and choice if they ever launch that it's supposed to be one-to-one but i don't know if they've they still haven't launched it the last i looked so supposedly that was coming this year but they haven't spoken much about it since so i'm wondering if that isn't going to come through but at any rate good question one--one. So you're talking about a hundred thousand bonus plus the miles from the spend 120,000 airline miles. And they've been running

some good transfer bonuses lately too. So that could potentially get you even more miles in the long run. So, I mean, excellent, excellent signup on us. So is this a Sapphire reserve killer, Greg? What do you think? We're excited. excited i mean we sound excited what's up um you know uh let's talk about where it falls a little short of the sapphire reserve okay well what do you think where's it so short okay so first of all sapphire reserve um earns 3x for travel and dining um versus x only earns two for everything for everything right we call the x the venture x the x the other thing the sapphire reserve gives you is one and a half cent redemption value so if you redeem through the chase portal or for pay yourself back categories, you're getting one and a half cents per point. So for those like bonus categories where you're getting 3x or 5x or 10x, the actual redemption value, if you're going to redeem for those things, is way higher than what you'd get with those miles. Now, if you're transferring to partners,

you could think of it as equivalent. They're both one-to-one with most of their partners. Safra Reserves travel rebates easier to earn. You use it for any travel. You don't have to go through a portal to get it. Even things like Uber rides and stuff like that, it doesn't even have to be just airfare and hotels. So very easy to earn that. It has a better ecosystem of other cards that earn the same kind of points.

So if you want to earn 5X at office supply stores, you tack on a ink cash. If you want to earn 3X at drugstores, you tack on your freedom. If you want to earn, go on and on. It probably has better travel protections. We don't know. We don't know that for sure. I don't know. Capital One is trying to copy. We'll see. We'll see. But when we've compared what Chase offers with travel protections to other ultra premiums, it kind of blows them away. So my guess is Sapphire Reserve will be better on that. And Chase has Hyatt. Capital One has Wyndham. I mean, if you're looking at hotel transfer partners, there's really no comparison

there. Those are some categories where I think Sapphire Reserve is better, but that said, Sapphire Reserve is way more expensive. You're paying $550 versus $395. Even with the full travel rebate of $300, you're still out $250. Whereas if you fully value the rebates on the Venture X, you're at like minus $5. Right. Coming out ahead. Yeah. You come out ahead.

And if you value miles any more than one cent each, which you should when they're transferable miles, you're coming out like literally coming out ahead. Literally coming out ahead. The ability to earn 2X everywhere is just way better. Safra Reserve, you could tack on a Freedom Unlimited to get one and a half everywhere and then move those points over to the Sapphire Reserve. And then you're getting better redemption value if you redeem through Chase's portal because earning one and a half and then the value being one and a half, it comes out to 2.25% sort of rebate on

your everywhere spend. But if you're going to transfer to partners, then Capital One has your beat there. So, you know, overall, it's like... And we should mention Capital One has better transfer partners. Okay. It's arguable. Maybe that was a broad statement. I like Capital One's transfer partners, except for obviously Chase has Hyatt. So given that, Hyatt is a great transfer partner. Capital One has better airline transfer partners. Better airline partners. Yes. There you go. That's a good way to put it. And with Wyndham and Vacasa Rentals has a potentially very good partner for people who are looking for that very specific vacation rental type thing with one bedroom. So it's a niche thing, but they do have something interesting on the hotel side and better airline partners, hands down.

Yes, although I think they are missing Virgin Atlantic as a transfer partner, which has some of my favorite sweet spot awards. So I have a hard time giving that up. But other than that, I totally agree with you. I would totally trade it for Avios and Turkish and Aeroplan. Easy trade for me. Will you get Avios with Chase too? Oh, you're right. I'm sorry. You're absolutely right. For Aeroplan and Turkish. You get Aeroplan with Chase too. Aeroplan now you do too. Shoot, darn it. Oh my goodness, for Turkish, I would trade it.

All right, keep trying. Avianca, Avianca and Turkish. There's at least two. I'll find one in there somewhere. Yes, yes, there you go. There you go. To think I had given it to you before that they had better airline transfer partners and then you dug yourself into a hole. Totally dead. That was awful. They have Etihad, they have Avianca. I had to actually look up the transfer partners here to be more accurate in terms of what

Capital One has, but they have better partners, airline partners. Yeah. Okay. So it's a very, very, sort of backing backing out very, very solid competitor to Sapphire reserve has some huge advantages over it has some disadvantages. That's going to be the way anyway. Um, you know,

anyone's just like almost any card you look at, you're going to have to look at like how much do those advantages mean to you and how much of the disadvantages hurt you, uh, to go with one or the other. But, uh, I think they've come really, really close. And here's an area where we haven't talked much about yet is the desire a lot of people have

to just carry one card that does it all. If that's you, this card is so much better, I think, than Sapphire Reserved as the one card because you're going to be getting solid returns for everything. And it goes further than any other one card for everything because this can sort of be your one card for your whole family. Right. Because you give your family members free authorized user cards and they get Priority Pass cards as well, free with that. They can bring in guests to Priority Pass lounges and they can also go into Capital One lounges, which are a new thing, but there should be three by mid or late next year in the country.

And so they're starting to ramp up. And certainly if you live in the Dallas area, Denver, Washington, D.C. area, that might be more meaningful to you to have access to Capital One lounges. And or if you transit those airports frequently. I mean, I don't live in one of those, but I've been flying United a little bit more often this year, but in recent years. And that almost always means connecting at Dulles for me. So that might be more appealing to me, even though I'm not located there.

But there's a statement you made that I want to challenge a little bit. And that's that you said that Chase has a better suite of companion cards. And so you're absolutely right that the ink business cards are really good. The ink hash in particular is a really good companion card to have on the Chase side. If you can spend some money at office supply stores, but for people that don't have a business, don't want to open a business card for whatever reason. And goodness knows there are plenty of people that don't feel like business cards are applicable to them.

Then if you just look on the personal side, so the companions to the Sapphire Reserve then are going to be the Freedom Flex and the Freedom Unlimited. And so the Freedom Unlimited gives you the one and a half everywhere, which is good if you're going to redeem those points at one and a half cents each through Chase. But if you're going to transfer to partners, it's not as good as having the Venture Act. So that card pretty quickly almost goes out the window, though, of course, obviously, that adds the three exit pharmacies also. So there's one other category. I know it's got the dining, too, but Sapphire Reserve already has that. So sure. So Freedom Unlimited, I feel like is pretty well balanced out still by the Venture X and then the Freedom. You have the rotating five X categories there. And so those rotating 5X categories can be good for you, but they're capped at $1,500 a quarter.

So they are limited. And when you look at the other Capital One cards, you got the Saver card, right? Or the Saver One card that's got no annual fee and offers three acts on dining and entertainment and on like streaming, I think that sort of thing. That's a pretty decent companion. And grocery, right and and i yes i believe it does have grocery i'm going to double check on that so that to me that's what i've been waiting for you to to talk about i i thought that's

that's the killer uh companion card yeah for the venture x the saver is the the killer companion card for the venture x and only because it has that hidden capability that Capital One doesn't advertise. Because it doesn't earn Capital One miles, right? It's earning cash back. Yet, you have the ability to somehow turn that cash back into miles by moving it over to the Venture card. You sure do. Venture X in this case. You sure do. And so the $95 saver card does earn 3% back on grocery

and 4% on dining, which if you transfer it to miles on your venture card means you're going to get 4X dining, entertainment, streaming services, and 3X grocery. I mean, that's pretty darn terrific, especially since grocery and dining are two of the most popular bonus categories. And Chase has a huge hole when it comes to grocery because they're not offering anything competitive in terms of grocery bonus. So I feel like pairing a saver card and this new Venture X kind of beats at least matches. And if not, I would, I think it beats out a chase combination that doesn't include business cards. Uh, you know what? I agree. I agree. So if you can get them, if you can get them and that's, that's the other thing we haven't really talked about,

but you probably can't get either card. So all of this is probably an academic discussion for you. You're just listening along for entertainment value. And I appreciate that, but, uh, but yeah, I mean, that's the hard thing is if you have lots of cards, you're not likely to get approved for other capital one cards, by the way, I want to back up for a quick second. I was talking about the saver and I also mentioned the saver one and the saver one that has no annual fee also has three acts on grocery and three acts on dining. So it's probably not worth paying the 95 bucks for the saver card. You want to spend a lot on dining for it to be worth the extra, the extra 95, which you might do. You might, you might spend that much.

Maybe you do. And if you do great. Otherwise, like we said, the problem is getting approved for one capital. One card is like moving heaven and earth. Right. So I mean getting two, if you don't already have one, you're probably out of luck. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Anecdotally, people claim that Capital One is easier on approvals for people who don't have that great of credit. So it's sort of backwards from what we're used to. And the reason for that presumably is they're counting on

getting customers who end up running a balance. So they pay interest or having late fees and all that kind of stuff that really adds up and ruins the value proposition of the card. So if you're in that sweet spot where you're likely to get approved by Capital One, don't get this card. Be a bad choice. Don't make bad choices, don't make that make a good choice right right right so it's a it's a pretty pretty uh unfortunate thing if that's true about about who they tend to approve um but yeah if you can get approved for these you know it's a very solid combination and uh i yeah i can't think of a two-card combination that would really beat that, especially since both of those cards, I believe, have no foreign transaction fees. So you could literally use them anywhere in the world, get the minimum of 2x everywhere, but up to 3x or 4x, depending on which saver card you get. That's a really nice combination.

That is. It's a very good combination. And you're right. No foreign transaction fees on either the VentureX or even the fee-free saver one. I think I could be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure that all Capital One cards have no... All of the major Capital One cards have no foreign transaction fees.

I think that's true that they don't have one. Yeah. I'm pretty sure none of them do. But anyway, so, I mean, I think they've got a good combo there. And what I'm hopeful for, and this is probably a misplaced hope, but is that hopefully, I'm crossing my fingers that we're going to hopefully maybe be able to product change one of our existing Capital One cards to a Saver One. Because if we could do that,

this could be pretty hot news in my household. Since, I mean, right now- Product change to a Saver One or to a Venture X? Well, both. Because I doubt that we're going to get approved for a Venture X. I assume, and this is, again, another assumption, but I assume we're going to be able to probably product change to the Venture X.

And the reason I say that is because if you have a Capital One card and you log into your account and you hit like the more options or something, there's a place in there for upgrades and offers. And when I had like a total Capital One garbage card and I hit the upgrades, it gave me a whole bunch of other cards that I could switch to that were sort of presumably upgrades from the card that I had. So I'm hopeful anyway,

that they're going to do the same when the venture X comes out and let people product change, because it seems to me silly to pay $95 for the venture card rather than three 95 for the venture X that's how good it is. And that's coming from someone who the priority pass doesn't matter much too, because I've got that on tons of other cards already. It's just for me, the $300 credit and the 10,000 miles is easy breezy benefit. And the Hertz president circle continuously, you know,

keeping that ongoing will also be nice. I have it right now because I matched around to get it, but Hey, I'll keep it if they're going to give it away. So that's not bad. And I'll probably use the lounge in DC a couple of times. So, um, so anyway, I, I'm, I'm pretty sure at least pretty confident that that will be possible. The hard part is that capital one has not ever been easy about product changing like side to side, you know, one card to another relatively equal card. So I'm hopeful again, probably misplaced, but that my wife can change her venture one card to a saver one. We'll see. Yeah. Yeah. That'd be great. Great combination. It would be.

Would you, so stepping back a bit, the, the X one card, not venture X, the X one that if you could get three X everywhere with that card or two X everywhere with the venture X, which would you prefer? Why do I have to pick do i have to choose uh well you sort of do because because we're talking about the spend that doesn't earn a category bonus right

right so so you're gonna when you're when you're in a grocery store you're gonna be using a card that bonuses grocery when you're in when you're dining you're gonna be using a card that bonuses grocery. When you're dining, you're going to be using a card that bonuses dining. So this is for all the other spend. You got to pick what card am I going to use for all other? If you had those two, which would you prefer? And keep in mind that the X1, the rewards can be used for a lot of travel plus other stuff at full value. So it's similar to how Capital One does the travel eraser, but X1 lets you erase not just travel like Delta or United flights and things like that, but also things like Apple purchases or a lot of different stores as well. All right. I'm going to answer that, but then I'm going to kick it back to you with a different question. So I'm going to answer that by saying, because the Capital One I can leverage them for a lot of value.

But the part of me doing the math is saying, am I willing to pay one and a half cents per mile? Because that's essentially what I'd be doing. I'd be giving up the chance to get 3%. That's really 3% to me because I'll spend enough on flights or whatever else that I could certainly use it at the full 3% value. So I think it's a silly, nonsensical decision to take the 2X on the VentureX card if I can get the X1. But knowing that somebody got shut down for one laptop purchase, it becomes a lot easier for me to say the VentureX. I think that's the issue, right? That's the problem, that these cashback opportunities these days

make the opportunity cost of collecting miles, even when it's a transferable currency. And even when it's a good rate of 2X everywhere, that opportunity cost starts to seem kind of high. Now, I ask why not both? Because I would probably do enough spend on both to be able to justify having both because you can't probably put an infinite amount of spend on one card, no matter which card it is or what your limit is. So I would probably actually want to have both being me. But as far as which I would recommend to somebody, if X1 became widely available and

this shut down shenanigans thing turns out to be an anomaly and they get that fixed up, it's really hard to ignore the X1. I feel like that's probably the smarter decision. Am I right? Yeah. Well, you know, obviously we have to get past these issues around shutdowns, as you said, because I was going to sort of jokingly say, oh, I would definitely spend on the Venture X because I don't. Wait.

But wait a minute. They did. You're right. Redeemed them all for half a second. I can't win with these two options. You're in trouble. The, the venture exit, you make a good point about, it's actually a reasonable pick as a sock drawer card. Meaning it, even if, if the only spend you did on it each year was $300 through the portal in order to get the travel rebate, it's arguably worth getting and holding onto because of having

free priority pass, free Capital One Lounge access, free authorized users who also get those things, Hertz status, you know, it's miles to the anniversary miles. So essentially for a net 95-ish and stop it out there, the people who are going to be like time cost of money, the $300 credit is now, yeah, I know, but 95-ish net cost, you're going to get 10,000 miles plus all that other stuff. So I mean, yeah, that seems like a no brainer to me. So now the question that I'm going to throw back at you that people are asking already, and I'm sure that while we've been recording this, the questions probably come in six more times. Which card would you keep between this

and the Ritz-Carlton card? Because the Chase Ritz card, the key benefit of that one is being able to add authorized users that each get their own priority pass with gas. But you're going to get that with this also. And then it becomes a question of, OK, well, they both have a $300 travel credit. Which do you prefer?

Do you prefer getting the annual Marriott 50K certificate on the Ritz card or on the Capital One side, the 10,000 miles and blah, blah, blah? So what do you think? What's worth it? And obviously the Ritz card is more expensive. It is. It is. You know, if it was, wow, it's so hard to say because the Ritz annual free night certificate, as you argued recently, is arguably going to be more valuable or at least more predictably valuable than before. And especially with the newfound ability that, well, it's not there yet, but will be early next year, they say, to add up to 20,000 points to the certificate value in order to book 15,000 points, sorry, in order to book hotel rooms, those certificates are going to be so much easier to use. And so I am going to value those certificates, I think, more than I do today. So yeah, I would probably stick with the Ritz.

Plus, Ritz doesn't shut me down, whereas Capital One does. It's not really a choice for you, Greg. No, it's not a choice for me. No choice for Greg because he can't keep a Capital One card. And for anybody who is not familiar with the joke there, that's because Greg finally got approved for a Capital One card this year, did the spend, earned the bonus, and then they shut down his account without explanation, redeemed all of his points for half a cent each, and wouldn't explain to him why or answer his questions about it or give him a chance to redeem the points by transferring the partners or something or other. First, they just totally stonewalled him and said, no points for you.

You're done. We don't want you. They don't want me at all. Crazy. That's the crazy thing that Capital One did want you. They don't want me at all. Crazy. That's the crazy thing to Capital One do this year. They shut down Greg for no reason. But anyway, that's probably not going to, I guess, probably not going to happen to most people listening. But yeah, so I think that's an interesting debate because I also will value that 50K free night cert pretty highly. But I could see someone saying, I have to not only get

good value out of that certificate, but also then jump through some hoopage in order to redeem the travel credit. The Capital One travel credit is arguably going to be easier to use. Not even arguably, it's going to be easier to use. Whether or not it's going to be easy to use at full value depends a little bit, but I would think towards flights, you're going to get regular value because flights, I'm sure are going to cost the same through Capital One travel that they cost everywhere else. So if you spend at least $300 a year on flights and you should be able to get that full value out of that.

So, whereas with Chase, you have to, you have to, you know, let's make the question easier. If you already have the Ritz card and you're getting good value from it, just keep it. I don't see any reason to change that. But if you're one person who asked said that they were about to upgrade to the Ritz keep it. I don't see any reason to change that. But if you're- Well, one person who asked said that they were about to upgrade to the RedSquared. So they don't have it yet.

So if you don't have it yet, I would take a stab at getting the 100K bonus on the VentureX. And if you get it and you don't get shut down like me, then you've got an easy way to give your family priority pass plus Capital One lounge access. So it has that benefit above what the Ritz card does. All right. There you go. There you go. So yeah, I mean, I could certainly see the argument for going for the Capital One, especially in that scenario. So Capital One, you've got an interesting new card with the Venture X. Unfortunately, a boring name. And I say an interesting card.

It's really a boring card that we find interesting, isn't it? It's a boring card that we think is a good deal. I think it's the most boring new card that we've seen in a long time yet. Yeah, probably it's one of the best values, right? I mean, it's solid value. I made the joke at the beginning that it's a coupon book burner because, you know, a lot of people are referring to the MX Platinum card as a coupon book these days because it's now $695 for the Platinum card. And it comes with all these dribs and drabs, like, you know, a little credit here every month and there every month and, you know, Walmart plus and blah, blah, blah. And so you got to do all this work to get any value out of those various credits. Right.

Whereas here, Capital One's like, no, forget about all that. We're just going to give you your value back. Basically, you pay us $3.95. We're going to give it back to you and you don't have to do any work. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, even Chase does that, right? I mean, we didn't talk about the other miscellaneous credits you get from the Sapphire Reserve because they come and go. Like they'll say,'ll say, this year we'll give you DoorDash credit and next year Peloton or whatever. And those are more coupon book thingies. And I definitely really appreciate that they went just more straightforward. Here's how to get a very easy way to get the full value back of your annual fee

and still be able to enjoy the other perks of the card. Agreed. Agreed. And I think for people who do a lot of unbonus spend, it becomes really interesting for them because 2X everywhere. I mean, we were saying that before that the 3X on the X1 card that's not widely available yet, maybe a competitor to that, or if you've got like the bank of America premium rewards with platinum honors, and you're getting 2.65% back, then you've got to kind of do the math and decide, do you want to earn a transferable currency? But if you don't have all of those other things, you're looking for one card for most of your spend excellent return on everywhere else on on bonus purchases. So if you've got a lot of unbonus spend, then the 3X travel and dining that you're losing

by having this instead of the Sapphire Reserve is not probably such a big deal to you if you do enough everywhere else spend. Yeah, I mean, going forward, when people who travel a decent amount ask me, what's the one best card? I mean, I think this is going to be top of mind. I think it probably will.

And that's surprising, isn't it? I mean, Capital One has, I got to give them credit here where I'll detract from them all day long for shutting down Greg's accounts without any explanation or reason. But I got to give them that they have continued to surprise us

again and again with good stuff over these last couple of years. They've really, really heated up. So they really have. They keep introducing new benefits and keep making them better. So now my question then, keep introducing new, new benefits and keep making them better. So now my question then, Greg, which isn't the question of the week, we'll get there in a second is what's next for the venture card? Because I mean, like we said at the beginning,

how can you justify paying $95 for the venture card with the venture X available? If they allow people to upgrade to the venture X, I can't see why anybody would keep Venture card. And I say that, you know, okay, maybe you don't want to, don't think you're going to spend on travel, but I guess there's some reasons maybe, but not good reasons in general, you really would want the VentureX card. So don't they have to do something to improve the Venture card to make it work well? If you're not, you know, traveling a fair bit, the Venture doesn't make any sense for you anyway. You ought to be, just get cash back and be done with that. Yeah. No, I don't see a place for it. I don't either. And I imagine that Capital One is smart enough to know that. So maybe I'm foolishly

optimistic here, but I'm hoping that we'll see something different. We'll see. All right. So then let's see. That brings us to the post roast. Are you ready for the post roast, Greg? I am. Oh, so I'll go first then before I before I get roasted. So, Greg, this week you wrote a post about how to amass tons and tons of membership rewards points through Amex.

And so you wrote this post where you talked about, hey, you can get tons of membership rewards points through Amex. And so you wrote this post where you talked about, hey, you can get tons of points because you can combine all of these great offers by opening a new card and referring somebody else and blah, blah, blah. So you could end up very well ahead. Right. And so my roast here comes from somebody's question. So somebody in the comments asked about the referral offer, because one of the key components of the post that you wrote, which is a great post, by the way, about earning lots and lots of points. So you're talking like six hundred and twenty thousand points. He he had he had shown how you could do that with one single card, blah, blah, blah. You

can go read more about it. But Chris, in the comments, asked a question because you talked about how all of these various things that you did in this post involved opening a new Amex card and then referring someone from it. So you can get four extra points per dollar. And you talked about referring them to any card, but Chris said, Hey, I got a platinum card. When I log in the refer a friend limited time offer just shows the platinum card. How does one refer a green card? And you had hinted at it within the post and you had linked to a myelonomics post, an excellent myelonomics post about this whole referral thing and getting the four extra points per dollar. But where were the arrows and

dots? Where are the arrows and lines here, Greg? I mean, because there are probably lots of people that don't know that if you have a platinum card, you can refer to like any other Amex card. Right. And you didn't show them how to do it. Yeah, no, that's true. I mean, I should have at least linked to a post of ours that lays that out. And we do have that post somewhere. So that's fair.

That's fair. All right. We do have that post somewhere. So that's fair. That's fair. And since you brought it up, though, we'll just talk through a little bit. There's two good options here. One is you can just give your referral link to your friend and tell them, look for on the screen the link to look at other cards. Because they can then click around. It's up at the top. It says like interested in another card or want another card. And there's like a link for all cards, a link for business cards.

Right, right. And so when they click around, find the card they want, apply, you still get the referral credit just as if they applied for the platinum card that you referred. The other way you could do it is do that clicking for them ahead of time, get to the right offer, get to the green card or whatever it is that they told you they want,

and then just copy your URL from there and give that to them as their starting point and you'll still get the credit. So to be clear, you click your referral link, which will initially show the platinum card. Then you look up at the top and there's some place that says, want another card? Or it says all cards.

And I say up at the top, it's not like the top, top, top, but it's right above the signup bonus. And then when you click the all cards, you look for the green card. Okay. You click on the green card and then you go up to the address bar and there's like a URL that's a mile long. That's got all sorts of letters and numbers in your address bar or your browser. And that's the link you copy.

So you copy that crazy looking thing with tons of different characters that again is like a mile long and paste that to your friend. And when they click it, it's going to bring them right to the green card or whatever it is. Test out the link before you send it to your friends.

Go to another tab or another browser and paste it in there. Make sure it works. Because sometimes you might accidentally not copy the whole thing and it won't work it won't work. So, you know, what we should do, we should make a short video. So hopefully if I get that done before we publish this, hopefully if you go to the show notes, you're going to see a link to a short video that shows you how to do that because it's really a great idea to screen record that and show

somebody how that works. So that's a great idea. Okay. All right. All right. Very cool. So that's it for post-trust. Not yet, my friend. Okay. All right. Okay. You wrote a post about Marriott, why you're not giving, you're not ready to give up your Marriott free night certificates yet. And in that post, you, you, you, you speculated on when Marriott gives up their award charts, what might they value their points at? And so you pointed out that we have observed recently values of average values of around 0.6 cents per point. Whereas when they sell their points on sale, they go to just below 0.9 cents per point is the cost to buy them if they're on sale, the Marriott points. So you said, so somewhere in that range is likely. Right. I don't disagree with-

So far, I feel pretty reasonable here. Yeah. I don't disagree with those data points. But for me, I would look at what has Marriott done very, very specifically, which is with their Marriott, I can't even think of it, homes and villas. I think that's their rental vacation rental properties. When they first came out, actually, no, when they second came out, they've been in multiple iterations. They pegged the value of Marriott points at 0.7 cents each,

but then more recently they dropped it to 0.6. So there was a deliberate decision in there to say, this is the value we value our Marriott points at when people are redeeming them. I look at that as the most likely scenario. 0.6, they picked for homes and villas. Why won't they pick that for hotels? That's a great point. And probably that's a convincing argument where I could say, okay, yeah, 0.6 would be it. And it wouldn't change the conclusion of my post. The one place where I think it would change the math a little bit is I think that that would reduce the value of the 35K free nights tickets by like five bucks over what we value them at now, but it'd be more

consistent. The 50k free nights starts to be identical to the value that we have at them. Yeah, the same $300. So if that's true, doesn't change really anything about the post, but that's a great point that that is probably a good guess as to a predictor as to where they're going to value points. Do you think it's likely they'll go even lower? I mean, there were some readers that said, I think it'll be half a cent each or less than that. What do you think? Do you think they're going to go to Hilton route and value points like really, really small? I mean, I certainly wouldn't rule it out, but, but no, I mean, for the same reason, I, I, I don't expect it to be higher than 0.6. I don't expect to be lower.

They made a deliberate decision with homes and villas. Someone decided 0.6 was a good number to use. That's my best guess of what they'll do. Am I hopeful that it'll be higher? Of course. And I could see them. I could imagine a scenario where they go as high as 0.7. I'd be very surprised if they go beyond that.

Yeah, that's fair. And if they go to 0.7, then we're talking about a difference in my gas and points. And my gas wasn't really an educated gas. It was just splitting. I say it wasn't an educated, it was splitting the difference between our value and what they, they price it at.

So I wasn't really guessing it's going to be, well, it was 0.77 cents per piece. But if, if 0.7 ends up being it, then we're talking about a difference of seven hundredths of a cent. So between what I guesstimated at and what it turns out to be. So it'll end up being probably relatively close. But I still think, like we said, like I said in the post, that it's well worth hanging on to those cards. Because I think those free night certificates, we've talked about this and you, you touched on it and your post about the things that you're, you know, your little tidbit thoughts about miles and points that these free night certificates are going to be so much easier to

get that full theoretical value out of. So I feel like hanging onto the cards is like going to be a no brainer. It's going to be like the old IHG card that you just pay the fee because you're like, yes, it's going to be easy to use that and get better value, I think. Right. No, and I agree totally. I think I'm excited about that change. I'm excited about how much I'm going to, I'm probably going to want more free night certificates because I'm going to have lots of opportunities to use them. Whereas it's been a bit of a challenge with all the programs, not just Marriott, figuring out the best opportunities to use them to get both good value and use them before they expire. Yeah. Right. Right. Especially in this pandemic era. So, all right. So that's our post roast. That brings me to the question of the week.

So this week's question of the week comes in from a reader via email, Mrs. NB. And so I'm going to cut this down a little bit. It's still a little bit long, but I think it was an interesting question. So Mrs. NB had a bad experience at a Hyatt all-inclusive property. And so jumping into the email, she said, well, too long of a story to detail. The short of it is that I booked a surprise trip for my husband's 45th birthday and invited others to join us. 14 in total. So 14 people in total for the trip. There were several disappointments during our five days there, ranging from accommodation issues. I'm explorers level and they didn't have the room I paid for, nor did they upgrade me or even acknowledge my status to a last minute canceled private spa party, did to incomplete spa facility

to no show of birthday amenities that were previously arranged plumbing issues, etc. I shared just some of this feedback via the post day survey at Hyatt and received a follow up message from the property's quality manager offering me an apology and 50,000 world of Hyatt points as compensation. Well, I appreciate the apology. I wonder if the 50K in points is a mere drop in the bucket for all that we endured, or even somewhat of a hush payment to not have a negative review. Went on to the quality managers waiting response based on your experience and industry knowledge. Do you think 50,000 world of Hyatt points is an appropriate offer or should I negotiate or request a different number? I've not dealt with anything like this before,

so I could really use your help. What are your thoughts? Well, I mean, I don't know how much they spent at the hotel, which would maybe give you an idea of how good 50,000 is, but off the top of my head, I'm like, 50,000, wow, that's huge. That's kind of the first thing I thought too. So if you're interested in how much, I don't know, but the all-inclusives are usually around $300 or $400 a night, right? So five nights, you're probably talking no more than $2,000 per room.

14 people, it might have been like seven rooms. It could be a lot of rooms. So, yeah, so that's where it gets a little harder to judge. But, I mean, I think that's a pretty... So keep in mind, hype points are worth a lot. And we have them pegged at about 1.6 for our reasonable redemption values. But when I most recently looked at hotels, prices have been soaring for hotels. And so it's rare these days to see less than about two cents per point value for Hyatt points. And so if you think of it that way, you're likely to redeem them, get over a thousand dollars worth of value. That's a heck of a rebate. Personally, if it happened to me,

and again, just guessing how much was spent at the hotel and how bad the issues were, but I'd be, I would probably just be happy with it and accept it. I think so too. I think 50,000, and that's essentially what I responded to the reader, the 50,000 points. I mean, I think that's the most I've ever heard of somebody getting is an apology, which tells me that the property knows they messed something up. But, but, but, but, you know, I don't know how much more you're going to really expect out of a property than 50,000 points. My goodness, it seemed like a lot to me. But like you said, it's a little hard to guess at that. I don't know how bad the issues work. So we didn't get all the

details. And I don't know how much they spent and if they booked seven rooms. I mean, maybe they're going to argue for some more and that's up to them. But I think generally speaking, that seems like a pretty reasonable offer. Now here's the tag on question to this, Greg, if you had this day, you had a bunch of problems, they offer you 50,000 points and you decide, okay, that's enough to make me happy. Now, are you, obviously you're not bound, but what would you do?

Would you still leave a negative review about your experience, detailing the things that happened? Or does that 50,000 points mean that you should now keep quiet and not complain because they made right by you? Well, I mean, wow, that's a hard, hard question. I mean, she asked whether this is a hush payment. And so, you know, that came to mind that, okay, well, yeah, they're offering you 50,000 points and probably they're hoping you're not going to leave them a negative review after they give you the 50,000 points. But, but what's the right thing to do in that case is I could,

is the right thing to do to warn people about the problems that you had or to take the 50,000 points and be like, okay, well, they, you know, they, yeah, they apologize. I mean, I, I mean, I think the right thing to do is if, if these are things that are likely to, to hit other people, I think the right thing to do is warn them. Um, maybe what you do is you, uh, in your review, give big kudos for the hotel owning up to having messed up and, but also lay out, you know, here's things that went wrong so that people know of what might happen. That seems fair to me. That seems fair to me too. That was actually what came to my mind was that I'd probably still write the review with whatever the problems were, but I would be clear that the property apologized and made up for it because I think that makes a big

difference. And as a person reading a review, if I see that, then I think exactly what I said a minute ago, well, they know they messed up and they were willing to fix that. So that tells me that they probably have also tried to fix whatever problems happen because they don't want to give 50,000 points out to the next person. So that would actually be a positive to me to read a review like that. So I think you're probably still okay to leave a review, but I would always mention that when a property does make an effort to apologize, I think that's notable and worth mentioning because not all properties do. I mean, there are certainly times where you just won't get anything or you'll receive an email that says, we'll discuss your

feedback with the appropriate teams. Thank you. Absolutely true. Absolutely. All right. Well, my friends, that brings us to the end for today we hope you've enjoyed today's show if you have and you'd like to get on our email list all you have to do is go to frequentmiler.com slash subscribe again that's frequentmiler.com slash subscribe to join our email list follow us on social media we're on instagram and facebook and twitter you can join our frequent miler insiders facebook group and discuss this kind of stuff day in and day out thank you guys very much wherever you By the way, wherever you're watching, listening, whatever it is, this show, make sure you give us a thumbs up, subscribe,

ding the notification bell. We appreciate that too. Thank you guys. And we will see you again next week. Bye, everybody.