Frequent Miler on the Air - Chase Sapphire Reserve card: More costly, coupony, and complicated | Frequent Miler on the Air Ep311 | 6-20-25

Episode Date: June 20, 2025

Today we'll talk about how Chase is breaking up the family (rule), we'll discuss whether American Express is high when introducing "as high as" offers, and we'll talk about how Chase has made the Chase Sapphire Reserve card harder to explain and harder and recommend.(01:27) -  How to move Avios between British Airways, Qatar, Iberia, Aer Lingus and Finnair(04:56) - Major refresh coming to The Platinum Card® from American Express and The Business Platinum Card® from American Express "later this year"Read more about this here.(10:53) - The Business Platinum Card® from American Express ending 35% points rebate on business & first class flights except for selected airlineRead more about this here.(13:03) - It seems American Express and Delta may be working on an even more premium card(15:10) - Chase launching business version of the Chase Sapphire Reserve card Monday June 23.Find our Coffee Break episode 59 "The real Sapphire Reserve for Business" here.(16:20) - Removing Sapphire family rule, expanding 48 month rule & allowing new cards without welcome offersLearn more about this here.(20:39) - Chase Travel℠ portal ending 1.5c & 1.25c redemptions, replacing with Points BoostRead more about this here.(24:28) - Mesa Homeowners Card now transfers to Air Canada Aeroplan & SAS EuroBonus(26:52) - Gift of College Cards now sold at Stop & Shop(29:47) - Jetblue status matchRead more about this here.(31:10) - Good Flying Blue business class award availability to/from Europe(32:13) - Transfer bonus from Chase Ultimate Rewards to Marriott BonvoyMain Event: Sapphire Reserve: More costly, coupony, and complicated(34:01) - New Chase Sapphire Reserve card summary(40:57) - Unchanged perks(41:42) - New perks(44:53) - Unchanged coupons(45:38) - New coupons(1:04:52) - Old vs new(1:14:36) - Chase Sapphire Reserve card timeline(1:29:30) - Is there a way to game this into one more lower Annual Fee? If for instance we requested changing the billing cycle, could we move it up so it gets billed on Oct 25th and thus is $550?Visit https://frequentmiler.com/subscribe/ to get updated on in-depth points and miles content like this, and don’t forget to like and follow us on social media.Music Credit – “Ocean Deep” by Annie Yoder

This is a Voyascape Podcast. You can find all of our travel podcasts from around the world at voyascape.com. On today's Frequent Miler on the Air, we discuss Chase breaking up the family rule, we question whether Amex is high when introducing as high as offers. And we talk about Chase making the Sapphire Reserve card harder to explain and harder to recommend. Frequent Mylar on the Air starts now. Today's main event, Sapphire Reserve. More costly, coupony, and complicated. The Sapphire Reserve card from Chase has been totally revamped.

The new one's coming out on Monday June 23rd and it's gonna be so different in many ways and as I said it's gonna cost more. It's gonna be have more coupons and it's quite a bit more complicated than the old 3X for travel and get 1.5 cents per point value when redeeming for travel. Yeah, I think the complication is the part that really, of course, requires the most discussion. You have to talk about the complexity of it. And I question a little bit the wisdom in complexifying too much.

I would think that it would make more sense to simplify. But hey, we can debate that and discuss that a little bit later. First, don't forget if you want to jump ahead to something or you want to come back to it later on you can always find the timestamps in the show notes just expand the show description and wherever you're watching or listening don't forget to give us a thumbs up like this episode we appreciate that. Leave your comments and your feedback too we love to hear from you. Alright let's drag out this week's giant mail bag. Alright this week's giant mail comes from Never Not Knitting. So you might- Never Not week's Giant Mail comes from NeverNotKnitting.

So you might- NeverNotKnitting, I love that. NeverNotKnitting. You may or may not know that on our YouTube channel, on FrequentMiler's YouTube channel, we have a bunch of how-to videos. And NeverNotKnitting replied to the video, how to move avios between British Airways, Qatar,

Iberia, Aer Lingus, and Fin Air. And they write, I want to thank you for this video. After spending an hour in total frustration trying to figure out how to transfer my Aer Lingus points over to British Airways, I finally called Aer Lingus hoping they could assist me. The rep on the phone told me that transferring from Aer Lingus to any other partner that uses Avios was impossible. I followed your tutorial and within five minutes

had the points transferred over. I'm so grateful, so much for calling customer service. You know, as soon as I heard the words I called and then anything after that, like, you know, my heart sunk a little bit. I knew, I knew, yeah, of course, of course. I know it's coming after that. There's nothing good comes after I called, which is ironic. You would think you should be able to call somebody and get help, but I mean, truth be told,

we've talked about it lots of times before. Calling is like my last resort, and when I do that, either I'm doing it because I already know what's possible and I just need a human being to do it, or I'm accepting the fact that it is a total roll of the dice and unlikely to be more fruitful than if I were to find some way to do it on my own. I just had a conversation with a friend yesterday.

We were debating, why do customer service agents always give an answer even when they don't know the answer? And we decided that they must be incentivized to close a lot of cases as quickly as possible. And so if they say, I don't know, and there's like follow-up questions, well, can you find out? I mean, that's gonna draw things out, right?

And require them to submit some kind of ticket to someone maybe, and that sounds like a lot of work. So it's much easier to just give an answer regardless of whether they know anything about the right answer, and in many cases, they don't. I'm sure that it's hit, and it's not even just that it's gonna require more work, but if they have to follow up with someone

or create some sort of a ticket, I would guess it probably shows up as like an incomplete call and they probably are, like you said, incentivized to have complete calls, right? Yeah, it's going to hurt their stats, right? They're like, there must be metrics showing how productive they are and that'll hurt. Yeah, yeah. So I bet that's exactly it. Yeah.

Unfortunately, unfortunately, never not knitting. I'm sorry that you got incorrect information, but you know, it's like, somebody who's not familiar might find this surprising that an agent told them it's not possible, it can't be done. But I don't find it surprising at all. I'm sure that the agent probably has no idea. They may never have had any obvious of their own.

It's not a requirement to become a customer service agent. So they may well just not know that you can move them around from one obvious program to another. So I'm glad you found the video moral of the story. Thank you for finding it. Never not knitting. Thank you for giving me a few opportunities to say never not knitting because you know we cannot resist a good alliteration. So thank you very much. Well said. Never not knitting. All right, let's move on to this week's card news.

It's quite a bit happening. I'll start with all the news from American Express. So first up, American Express announced that there's a major refresh coming to their Platinum and Business Platinum cards later this year. And they further said the company will announce further updates this fall. No real details about what will happen.

Of course, we can predict annual fees will go up, more coupons will be introduced. Justice has been happening with all of their cards and now all of Chase's cards as well, whenever they get refreshed, I think we can be pretty certain of those two things happening. But overall, I'd say this announcement was made to just take some of the thunder away from Chase's announcements about the Sapphire Reserve cards. It certainly seems that way. And you know, I don't know if they actually succeeded there at all, but I guess at least

they got people talking about their cards and maybe, you know, six or seven people will wait around to see what happens. I don't know as though I would wait because I imagine that we're going to see higher fees and Amex is usually pretty good about giving the new benefits to existing cardholders. So I wouldn't be waiting around with baited breath to see what happens there personally. But the other reason I wouldn't be waiting around

with baited breath though is because they've really switched up the way they do welcome offers, right? And that's kind of weird now. Yeah, so now they're starting to list their welcome offers with as high as the words as high as before the welcome offer. So the new platinum card offer as we record this is like as high as 175,000 points after some amount of spent. And the only way to find out what your offer will be is to apply, go through the application steps, then what will happen

then now it's not as bad as it sounds because once you, you know, complete the application form and submit it before it actually goes through and does any kind of hard pull or whatever AmEx is going to do with it, before it does any of that, it tells you what your offer is. And then you have a chance like, do you want to proceed or not? So it's very similar to the pop-ups that we've known about for a long time that we're that we refer to as pop-up prison, where sometimes you are told after you fill out the application, you're told, Oh, you're not going to get a welcome bonus. Do you really wanna proceed?

What they're doing now is changing it up to, in many cases, it'll say you are gonna get a welcome offer and it'll be this, and it may or may not be as the number that's as high as number. This seems so confusing for so many people. Like, I get it, and I'm sure you get it in terms of like, I'll know what I'm looking at and everything and understand what I'm applying for.

But I have to imagine that lots of people are gonna be really confused by this, aren't they? 100%. I mean, I'm wondering how many people will be just turned off from applying altogether. Yeah. You don't know what you're gonna get. And no matter how many times people say,

it's not really gonna hurt you to fill out the application if you end up. Like, I still think most people won't get that whole thing and be like, well, why should I do all that work of filling it out if I might get a terrible offer? I mean. Well, and then if it says as high as, and then they're like, oh no, that's not for you.

You're gonna get this other lower off, or like, who is not gonna be completely turned off by that? And be like, you know, oh, I'm not even gonna bother, because last time it said as high as, but yeah, right, I didn't get anything like that, you know? So it's gonna discourage people from applying in the future. This is such a dumb idea. Yeah, yeah.

Now, you know, don't tell Amex I said this, but I think that what I would do is if I'm trying to apply for as high as 175K and I get an offer for 150K, let's say, I would just close down the browser, maybe open a different browser, try again, maybe wait till I'm traveling and in some other city, try from there, because they have different methods for targeting who should get different offers.

And so there's different ways to just try again, if you're really set on wanting that highest offer. But yeah. Yeah, I don't like it. I don't like it at all, MX. I think it's, I don't know know if really what they want to do is discourage. I would assume what they want to do is discourage people from signing up for cards over and over and over again.

Right. And like they can do that without doing this. And they were already kind of they have methods anyway of like you know the pop up and whatnot that they've they've done or their lifetime language. I think this as high as just turns off people that aren't the people that they don't want. Like they aren't bad customers necessarily. Like if I think just anybody I know that is not in the credit card game, if I sent them a link and said you should apply for this and they have to fill everything out before

they find out what they're going to get, like how skeptical, if you're already skeptical at all about credit cards, how much more skeptical is that going to make you? It just doesn't seem like it's weeding out the right crowd of people. Right, right, right. Seems like a better way they could have gone is to say the offer is $175k and then if they didn't want everybody to be eligible for that, then have a pop-up saying, I'm sorry, you're not eligible for the offer as described, but would you be interested in this other offer for 125k or whatever? Right. That would be a more customer-friendly way of doing it, I think. Yeah, you're right. You're right. I think there's ways they could have pulled that off,

but they're not done. They're not done disappointing us today, are they? No, no, they're not. So the other thing that we learned is that they are ending. So you know how the business platinum card, if you pay for airfare with your preferred airline than any airfare, you pay with points for that airfare through MX Travel, you get a 35% rebate. But what they also allow is a 35% rebate on any airline as long as you book business or first class.

That second part they're doing away with. That's going to be gone. That is a huge, huge bummer. It's a huge bummer, number one, because we've talked plenty of times, even recently, I think, about how sometimes you can get a better deal buying a business class flight and using your points to pay for it with this 35% rebate than the cost of an award ticket.

Or oftentimes I'll find situations where it's at least comparable. It cost me about the same number of points as it would to transfer and book an award but I'm not handcuffed by award availability and I can earn miles on the flight and progress towards elite status etc. So this is something I have used a number of times for business international business class flights and that last part there is the most relevant part because okay you might say well yes now you're going to be limited to your selected airline but the the big issue there for me is that they only allow you to select US domestic airlines and those are typically not the ones where I'm using this benefit I'm typically using this benefit to fly

international routes and to fly on foreign carriers and so you're not going to be able to do that at all anymore for any foreign carriers, assuming that they continue to limit you to just us based carriers for the rebate and the airline fee credit, which I have to imagine they probably will. So that's going to just be, I don't know. This is a big, I'm really bombed. I'm really bombed about this one. Big head. Yeah. Yeah. Well, who knows? Maybe the refresh will offer some other way to get maybe outsize value with your points, but we're a little skeptical about that. Um, all right, that's not the end of the Amex news. The other one, let's call this one a rumor at this point,

but it seems as if American Express and Delta are working on a new Delta card that is even more premium than the Delta Reserve card. So the Delta Reserve card, I don't remember the exact annual fee, 695 or 650, somewhere in that range. It's a lot. It's a lot. It's in the lot range. The new one will be more expensive than that. So I'm guessing it might be in the thousand plus range. We'll see. And we don't know anything about like what kind of perks it'll offer,

but I think you can safely assume there'll be pretty high-end perks at the very least. So the Delta Reserve card gives you 15 lounge visits per year. So at the very least, this new one should give you unlimited Sky Club access per year. And I would guess something like gold status or maybe even platinum status automatically,

but to be determined. I would bet against platinum. That just seems so high to give away for any kind of like thousand,200, $1,400. You're just gonna end up with a ton of elites because there will be people that will be willing to pay that for platinum status. So I think it's gotta be higher, but yeah,

or maybe it's just gonna be more MQDs, which will hopefully be enough for some level of status. But at any rate, yeah, that's interesting. Are you feeling intrigued? Are you interested? Are you excited? Or are you more turned off by this? I mean, you're a Delta flyer.

You're a Delta guy. How you feeling so far? I mean, there's not enough there to be really interested personally in this yet. But, and I think it's very unlikely I will be, but as a person who makes living, talking and writing about this stuff, it's pretty darn exciting. It's exciting anytime a new, a new card comes out, especially from a major issuer with a major, um, co-brand

like Delta. Very good. All right. Let's talk about chase. So chase lots of news out from chase this week. First of all, they're launching the business version of the Sapphire Reserve on Monday, June 23rd So that's coming out in just a couple of days after this podcast publishes So if you are listening to this, you know, what the day it comes out then, you know You've got just a couple days left before this comes out So that's cool We did a coffee break about that card called the Real Sapphire Reserve for Business. And of

course, we called it the Real Sapphire Reserve for Business because we tried to predict about this card last week. And we didn't do a great job with our predictions, as it turns out. So you'll want to check out the Real Sapphire Reserve for Business coffee break number 59. Yeah, we did a really bad job predicting it. But you know, that just keeps us keeps us right on par with our normal prediction successes. True, true. All right. We got we got to come up with some stuff to predict that I don't want to happen so that we can lock that stuff out too.

But at any rate, at any rate. So, of course, the Sapphire Reserve for Business is launching. The Sapphire Reserve is refreshing here in a couple of days, and they're removing the Sapphire Family Rule, which means I think you'll be able to get both a Sapphire Preferred and a Sapphire Reserve again, but they're expanding the 48-month rule. So that's a little different. Maybe you could talk a little bit more about how that's going to work now. Yeah, I mean, truthfully, we don't know. So the rules will come out presumably

on Monday, June 23, along with every all these other big things that are happening. And then we'll find out whether, like, are they are they going to have a single new rule listed? Like you can't get a welcome bonus if you've gotten this card in the past 70 months or something. Or I feel like it's more likely, it's kind of becoming Mx-y, that it might be based on your personal situation with Chase and whether they want to give you a new welcome bonus now or not.

And I feel like that's like more likely that they'll probably have a path where you fill out the application and it tells you, no, sorry, you've had the, you got a welcome bonus too recently. It was within the last 20 years, so you're not eligible, or they like you. And they're like, yeah, it's okay that you got one,

you know, last year, yeah, it's okay that you got one last year. We really want more of your business because you've been spending a lot on our other cards or something along those lines. So yeah, that's my guess, but we know how good my predictions are. So let's just wait and see what happens on Monday. Well, I think a big piece of this news too

is that it's going to now be possible to be approved for a card without a welcome offer with chase which is a departure from days of old now if you're familiar with amex that's something that's existed for i don't know as long as i i can remember with amex that it's possible to open a new card with amex even if you're not eligible for the welcome bonus they'll give you a pop-up and say hey you're not going're not eligible for the welcome bonus, they'll give you a pop up and say, hey, you're not going to be eligible for the welcome bonus. Do you still want to proceed? You can still have the card.

You just can't get the welcome bonus. And there are some situations where you might decide that that's OK because you need some of the benefits of the card, for instance. For sure. The Marriott Brilliant card's a good example because that one comes with platinum status. And maybe that matters to you enough

that you're willing to forego the welcome bonus if you're not eligible for it but with chase it's long been the case that if you get approved then you're getting the welcome bonus and so if you're not eligible for the welcome bonus you can't get approved that's long been the way that it's been with chase however that's changing so they're going to give you the option to accept the card without a welcome bonus which on the surface sort of sounds like good news, but at the same time, it makes me a little bit nervous about, uh, whatever this new role situation is going to be. What is it going to look like?

Is it going to be like a once per lifetime type of a thing? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so we'll, we'll wait and see about that, but, but I do like that. You'll be able to get cards without a welcome bonus, especially like if you think about Marriott cards, how complicated the welcome bonus rules are there.

And like, so, you know, if you have a, you know, if you're trying to get like the Bonvoy boundless card from Chase, then there's rules saying, well, if you currently have any of this list of Marriott cards, including Amex cards, or you've gotten a bonus in the last X months, or you, I don't know, or you got free breakfast at the Marriott down the street,

then you're not eligible for this card. And I think it sounds like that'll change to where, well, you're eligible for the card, you're just not eligible for the bonus. And that's good because a lot of people might just want the card as a stepping stone, for example, to get the top grade to the Ritz card. Yeah, same thing if this becomes widely available.

IHG cards would be similar. I've got the old $49 IHG card, I don't have the newer IHG card. So I get 10% back on my award redemptions, but I can't get the fourth night free, and I'm not eligible the newer IHG card. So I get 10% back on my award redemptions, but I can't get the fourth night free. And I am not eligible for the IHG premier card because I have the old classic $49 card. So it'd be great if I get the card without even without the bonus. If I had a bunch of IHG stays planned. I

don't but you know, if I did, then then it would be nice to be able to get it and say, Okay, you know what, I don't care about the bonus so much as the fourth night free. Makes sense. That's not not the case for me right now. But hey, maybe it would be nice to be able to get it and say, okay, you know what? I don't care about the bonus so much as the fourth night frame. Makes sense. That's not, not the case for me right now, but Hey, maybe it will be some day. All right. So that's that chase also though, is not done kind of putting us on edge here. They are ending the one and a half cent and 1.25 cents per point redemptions. So for a long time, if you had a Sapphire preferred or the ink business preferred,

you can use your points at 1.25 cents per point towards paid travel through Chase Travel. And if you have a Sapphire Reserve, you've been able to use your points at 1.5 cents per point towards paid travel through Chase Travel. They're ending that and instead replacing it with what they're calling points boost, which is going to be variable offers of up to two cents per point. So it may be 1.25 or maybe one cent per point. That's the base level.

Now you're going to go down to one cent per point as a base level redemption. And sometimes you'll have opportunities for 1.25, 1.5, 1.75 or as much as two cents per point. What do you think? Yeah. Yeah. So it's mixed. I mean, so, you know, it, it makes things much more complicated. Um, it, it brings the sort of base expected value of using points through

chase travel down to one cent, uh, for most things and that's terrible. I mean, why would you ever redeem through the portal for one cent per point when you could instead just cash out for one cent per point and then book paid and earn a lot of points for your paid travel. And not book your paid travel through Chase Travel, just book it directly through the providers then, right? Book it directly through providers,

go through a portal to the provider, get extra points, or do book through Chase Travel and earn extra points because they give you extra bonus points when you book through the portal. So if you like doing it that way, which, you know, Nick and I don't, but some people like booking through portals. Anyway, yeah, so it's all very complicated,

but you know, where it's, I don't know if exciting is the right word, but good is that there will be opportunities to get more than 1.25, more than 1.5 cents per point value. And in those cases, obviously it'll be a good thing when you could do it. We're gonna talk in the main event a bit about a particular opportunity with luxury hotels, um, that, that is relevant to that topic.

So we'll get into the details then. Yeah. I think the opportunities to earn two cents per point or to, to, to use points at two cents per point that does have me somewhat intrigued and I didn't use the one and a half cents per point particularly often. So I might be a little bit more excited about the chances to get two cents per point personally. On the whole, I feel like it's a big loss for tons of people though, because the advantage that Chase had was simplicity and you know, their transfer partners are

okay, but not the best in the industry by any stretch. And yeah, when you get rid of the simplicity of a good value redemption, that makes it less of a no-brainer deal for a wide range of people. And instead it's like, you gotta be a maximizer like us in order to really get great value out of that. And that's a little bit disappointing,

but like Greg said, we'll talk about where I think, where we think opportunities will exist. Yeah, a couple value out of that. And that's a little bit disappointing, but like Greg said, we'll talk about where I think, where we think opportunities will exist. Yeah, a couple more things about that. So I think if I remember right, for Sapphire Preferred and Inc. Business Preferred card holders, I think the top redemption value will be 1.75 if I remember right.

Ah, I think you're right, yeah. As to when this happens for those cards, please check out the post. We'll have that in the show notes We will talk about the timeline for Sapphire Reserve Near the end of the show though both for existing card holders and new card holders, which it's different and complicated Yes quite. All right Then last piece of card news the mess Mesa card which you've heard us talk about the Mesa homeowners card Which is a card you can get to earn points paying your mortgage and you don't pay your mortgage with the card the mess mesa card which you've heard us talk about the mesa homeowners card which is

a card you can get to earn points paying your mortgage and you don't pay your mortgage with the card you just earn points for your mortgage we've got a whole post about it so you can learn more about that card if this is news to you uh the key thing is that you're earning points transferable points both through the use of the credit card and by paying your mortgage and initially we were a little So so on the transfer partners because they didn't have a ton of great transfer partners But now they've added Air Canada aeroplan and SAS Euro bonus and Air Canada Aeroplan is one of my favorite award programs gives you access to a wide range of partners

I think they have more than 40 different airline partners So you've got lots of opportunities to use miles there, Canada Aeroplane, and of course SAS. We did the SAS Eurobonus Millionaire Challenge last year. So we have a bunch of SAS miles, but most Americans don't have any way to earn SAS miles. So this is a new opportunity now, a different program that a lot of people aren't terribly familiar with, but does have some good uses. So it's worth, well, not even worth, I mean let me take that back. It's interesting, this is interesting news

for the Mesa card that they've expanded two new partnerships, hopefully we'll see more come. It's really interesting and with these new transfer partners, suddenly like, so I don't have a mortgage to pay so I haven't been paying too much attention in this card personally, but it has some 3X, interesting 3X category bonuses for spend. And if you're going to be getting access to

good transfer partners, suddenly this is getting interesting even for non-mortgage owner, mortgage people. So anyway, something to keep an eye on and check out the posts about that if you're interested. Yeah, because if I remember correctly, one of the three X categories is childcare, like daycare. And I mean, I live in a very small market where that's not a major expense for me, but I know plenty of people where that's a really big expense and the chance to earn three X

on the cost of daycare. Uh, I don't know if that might, that alone could make the car worth it. I think for a lot of people. So, uh, so anyway, that's, uh, certainly worth taking a look, I think now. And if they've added those two, then I have to think that maybe there will be others in the pipeline. And so now I'm interested to see where they go. All right.

Let's talk about awards points and more. First up in awards points and more, gift to college gift cards are now sold at Stop and Shop. Now, many people listening might not know Stop and Shop, but those of you in the Northeast probably do know Stop and Shop because it's a grocery store chain that's pretty widely located downstate New York. So you know, Westchester, Rockland counties I think and certainly Long Island and then Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut

there's quite a few stop-and-shops out there in the Northeast so if you are a Northeast resident and you've been interested in contributing to a 529 plan earning credit card rewards while you're at it the fact that these are available at grocery stores is huge news. Interestingly, it's not listed as an option as a location carrying the cards on the gift of college website. So I think this is pretty new. I think we were on it as soon as they just started rolling out in the stores. So they're not included in the store locator now if you're looking at the gift of college website. And I bring that up because when we posted about

it, we had a reader who said they stopped by their store like like right after we posted and the cards weren't for sale there. But then they just happened to be in the same store later on the same day because they were grocery shopping or whatever. And boom, the cards were out. So they must have been getting put on display that day. And so so I say I bring this up because Stop and Shop is owned by a company that owns some other stuff too. And so for instance, Hannaford Grocery Stores is another chain that's largely in New York State and I think in Pennsylvania. It's kind of regional still, but they're a sister company of Stop and Shop. So they're owned by the same overall organization. So now I got my eye out to see, are they going to show up in Hannaford? Because maybe, maybe they will. And so who knows where else they might show up. So itford because maybe maybe they will and so who knows

where else they might show up so it might be worth just keeping your eye peeled at your local store i was in a different grocery chain yesterday and i took a look because i figured well who knows who who else is getting these that we don't know about yet so keep your eye out if you're looking for gift college gift cards yeah yeah and you know if you're whether you're saving for college that's the obvious use for these. But even if you're paying off student loans, you can use these for that. And it's a great point earning opportunity.

There are cards out there that are in like 3X or more at grocery stores. And so you'll earn that buying these. If they're loadable up to $500, that's the key. So if you find them at any store where they're loadable up to $500, that's the key. So if you find them at any store where they're loadable up to $500 and they let you pay with a credit card, go for it. That's a good deal. And I should mention that last part of the Greg mentioned, if they let you pay with a credit card,

obviously that's going to vary by location and stop and shop. I imagine there are going to be some places that'll let you pay with a credit card and some places that just won't. And probably the rules are going to vary by store. will let you pay with a credit card and some places that just won't and probably the rules are going to vary by store so if you've got more than one around you might want to check more than one even if you're told no at one of them because we've had plenty of readers report they were able to buy them already so you should be able to buy them somewhere. Alright that's Gifted College JetBlue status match.

JetBlue has a new status match out for Delta and American Airlines elites and you can earn Mosaic 4 status by matching to Mosaic 2 by June 30th and then earning 50 tiles by the end of this year and after 50 tiles you'll have Mosaic 4 through 2026 that seems like a pretty hot opportunity. Yeah I mean for you know JetBlueFlyers what a great deal because you because Mosaic 4 gives you what, six, I think, move to min upgrades each year and many other benefits as well. Of course, JetBlue is financially hurting and they've been cutting back on their routes. So true, true. Maybe a bad bet, but hopefully they'll stick around long enough that if you do this, you'll

be able to take advantage of it. If you're a JetBlue Plus or business card holder or is a JetBlue Premier, I forgot what the card is called. Then I think you could earn the 50 tiles just by, just by spending $50,000 on your card. Should be a way to qualify if you didn't want to earn it through flying. So anyway, I just thought that was worth touching on for those JetBlue fans out there, a good

shortcut to getting to top tier JetBlue status if you're starting with American Airlines or Delta Elite status. All right, next up, Flying Blue has good award availability. Finally, flying to and from Europe again. So this was what, 60,000 miles each way. There was quite a bit of availability from a few different cities, I think, to and from Europe, right? Yeah, yeah, including plenty of availability

throughout the summer when there hasn't been much available going on up till now. Now, a while ago, like, Flying Blue had slammed the door shut on most good value awards. I think we had reported it here, or at least on the blog, if not on the podcast, about how they suddenly dried up all their awards. And yet we were seeing good awards through Virgin Atlantic

at that time. Whatever prevented those awards from appearing has finally been unleashed. And so now we're seeing a whole lot right now. And so that's exciting. You could transfer points to Flying Blue from just about any transferable points currency, any major one. Yep. Yep. So good news there for those with points to use in a desire to go to Europe. Another opportunity for points hoarders is a transfer bonus. There's a current transfer bonus from Chase Ultimate Rewards to Marriott Bonvoy through

June 30th, so not much longer. Through June 30th you can get a 65% transfer bonus, so for every 1,000 Chase Ultimate Rewards points that you transfer, you'll end up with 1,650 Marriott Bonvoy points. And so that runs again through June 30th and then starting July 1st through August 15th, it'll be a 50% transfer bonus. So a thousand Ultimate Rewards will give you a 1,500 Marriott Bonvoy points. Good deal, bad deal. Should people consider this?

What do you think? Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't do it prospectively if you don't have plans for it, but, you know, if you, it seems like a pretty good deal, especially the 65%. If you have a good value Marriott stay, you want to buck, then yeah, go for it. You know, while Marriott points tend to be worth only about 0.7 or 0.8 cents per point on average. It's not unusual to find over one cent point, you know, points per value over one cent. You can say over one cent per point in value from your Marriott points is occasionally possible.

So if you were to get that, if you were to get one cent per point out of your Marriott points, then you're essentially getting 1.65 cents per per chase point. If you're transferring with a 65% bonus, which is fine. I mean, we've been happy with one and a half, so it's fine. It's not like wildly exciting, but it's fine. Exactly. Exactly. And if you could find much better than one cent per point, then obviously you can do much better than 1.65 as well. Right. Yep. All right. Okay. That winds that down. It's time for this week's main event. Main event time. The Chase Sapphire Reserve has become more costly, more coupony, and more complicated. The new Sapphire Reserve card launches on Monday, June 23rd,

and we're going to talk all about what's new, how it's changed from the old Sapphire Reserve card. And we will separately, towards the end of this main event, talk about the transition timeline, because that's weirdly complicated. And what I mean by that is if someone has the Sapphire Reserve or applies for it before June 23rd, then there's a bunch of stuff that gets grandfathered in, doesn't start for real until later this year. And then that whole 1.5 redemption thing, that whole thing is so complicated, it's ridiculous. Anyway, we'll get into that a little bit later in the show, but let's talk about what has changed.

I'll start with the easy to understand news about the annual fee, primary card holders. Easy to understand. Easy to understand, Easy to understand. Maybe not easy to, uh, to, to, to, to consume, uh, primary card holder for the, uh, new Sapphire reserve card will be paying $795. That's up from $550, um, before. I understand that.

See, I told you it's easy to understand. Um, and then every authorized user now will be paying $195, which is up from $75. I understand, ouch. Most people are like, I understand that I'd be canceling my card now. I mean, that's, yeah, I understand that that's a huge increase.

You don't need to bust out the calculator for me on this one, Greg. I'm pretty clear that that's a lot more money than you were paying before. If you have one authorized user, then what? You're like $250, $350, almost $400 more it's going to cost you, right? It's incalculable. It's too much. Too much. Well, I don't know whether it's too much. We'll decide whether it's too much. We'll talk about it. But it's a big increase. There's no doubt about it. Big increase.

Right, right, right. All right, but along the lines of big increases, we're gonna see an increase on some types of purchases in terms of your return on spend because you'll earn eight X points on all of your chase travel purchases, which replaces five X on flights and 10 X on hotels and car rentals.

So you'll earn more points now on flights booked through Chase Travel and fewer points on hotels and rental cars booked through Chase Travel. Unfortunately, I'm kind of surprised that they reduced that, but I guess it simplifies. This is the simple part. This is the easy thing to understand. They put all of their effort into simplification here. 8X flat on chase travel. That was important to them to make that part easy. So on this bullet, I'll just throw this in real quick.

I see this as a net win because I did not recommend before booking flights or regular hotels through, I'm sorry, car rentals or regular hotels through chase travel for a variety of reasons. But flights, it can make sense. And now flights go up from five X eight X. So that's net positive. I agree.

I agree. That's I think that's a win too, because I wasn't considering the hotels and car rentals at 10 X anyway. So whether they 10 X that or eight X it or two X it or 15 X it, I'm probably still not going to do it. So, uh, so the eight X for flights is nice. Five X on eligible lift purchases through September 30th of 2027. So that had dropped at some point and it continues at that

rate through September 30th of 27. 4x points on flights and hotels booked directly, purchased directly. So if you book your flight directly with the airline or your hotel directly with the hotel chain, then you'll earn 4x, which replaces 3X on all travel before, but it replaces 3X on all travel. So you're going to get 4X on those flights and hotels direct and 1X on most other types of travel now, unfortunately. You'll still earn 3X on dining worldwide, including eligible delivery. So that's great.

But 1X again, everywhere else, including travel that's not included with the booking direct with the airlines and hotels or booking on chase travel so there's gonna be a lot of 1x travel these days unfortunately yeah yeah okay let's talk point redemption value you'll still be able to transfer to the same list of airline and hotel transfer partners that hasn hasn't changed. If you wanna book travel through the Chase Travel portal, though, things are changing. So instead of getting 1.5 cents per point value, you'll get a base 1 cent per point value,

but there will be points boosts that randomly show up in your search results, and you'll get up to two cents per point value. Obviously when you can get two cents per point value that's great, when it's less than 1.5 that's obviously not great. So just to sum up so far we've got a lot more to talk about the changes but as far as what we've talked about so far we've've gone from, you know, the annual fee is up quite a bit, point earning rates change from a very simple 3X for travel and dining, 1X everywhere else, to much more complicated 4X for airfare and hotels, 3X for dining, 1X everywhere else, and that's not

counting like the chase travel stuff. And then for point redemption value, it went from the very simple, you know, getting 1.5 cents per point value everywhere to this, you'll know what you get when you see it. That's right. That's right. Which I don't know. I mean, you know, if you see the two cents, I guess is going to be good news. If you only see one cent, it's not going to be good news. So yeah, I

hate though that people are going to have to maybe bust out the calculator and figure it out or I suppose it's going to show what you're getting. Yeah, it'll show what the points boost is. So they're treating it like a like a if it says 1.5 X, that means you're getting one one and a half cents per point value. If it says two extra getting two cents. Okay. All right. So all right.

So there's your point redemption value and I think we'll probably talk more about that in a minute maybe. I mean, two cents, if you can get two cents, is that a good deal? If you see a points boost for two cents, is that something you would consider? Absolutely. I think getting two cents per point is excellent. You know, I'm happy even when I transfer to Hyatt if I get two cents per point value. Now you often get more than that, but if I'm getting at least that, I'm very happy. And so getting it direct

from the portal on anything, not just specific hotels is nice. Yep, very good. Yes, right. All right, let's talk about the perks then, I guess, next, right? So first off here, we have the unchanged perks. So no changes here. You're still gonna be able to transfer

to all of Chase's airline and hotel partners. You'll still get the same excellent travel protections that the card offers. It's long been known for good travel protections and that's not changing. And you'll still get lounge access as the primary card holder or the authorized users that are now a bit more expensive. So you'll get priority pastel, Sapphire lounge access, Air Canada maple leaf lounge access, and like I said, the authorized users at that 195 fee per authorized user on the

sapphire reserve consumer card they also do get lounge access so that's unchanged and that's pretty good new perks though there are a few new perks first of all the primary card holder is going to get ihg platinum status so that's a little bit of a bump it doesn't offer a ton few more points per dollar spent at IHG properties Maybe you'll get a better room when you're overseas I tend to find that IHG is better at recognizing status at foreign properties than within the US But you learn a little bit more on your paid stays you get a free subscription to Apple TV plus and Apple music That's not gonna be a rebate, but somehow you're gonna get a I don't know like a code or something

I guess how that's gonna work. Yep. Yep. Yeah, that's why I put on her perks rather than coupons because it's not not a rebate but somehow you're gonna get a I don't know like a code or something I guess is how that's gonna work yep yep yeah that's why I put on her perks rather than coupons because it's not not a rebate it's just something that having the card will make you eligible for this free subscription yep you'll have access to reserve travel designers are those like concierge of some sort I guess I think they are travel agents with a fancy name as far as I can tell. But, but honestly, I'm not, I'm not sure what exactly they are. They sound fancy. You don't know what a travel designer is, Greg?

I don't either. Who does? Who does? Travel designer. I like it. And then Sapphire reserve exclusive tables access. So this is their form of sort of like Rezzy. They're partnering with OpenTable,

but then within that partnership with OpenTable, they have some narrow group of restaurants with Sapphire Reserve exclusive tables, and you'll be able to reserve those exclusive tables through this deal here, right? Yeah, my understanding is that there will be some hot property restaurants where it's hard to get a table, but if you could book through this and get some prime time spots at tables at those particular restaurants. Unfortunately, the list of participating restaurants

isn't huge. In major cities, it's pretty big. But in smaller cities, it's not much. And in much smaller cities like Ann Arbor, there's none. So now Detroit, which is not far away, there's a handful. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's interesting. I wonder how that'll work out long-term because, you know, is the hot restaurant

gonna keep that table forever for a Sapphire Reserve cardholder to come in? I mean, I don't know exactly how they they work that out, but apparently maybe you'll get a I'm skeptical about how it works, but we'll see. Now, I said on a previous show, I think that I was actually excited about this because I saw a bunch of restaurants that I was interested in eating at. But I since found out that those are listed on that open table Sapphire Reserve website, but they're not considered Sapphire Reserve exclusive tables.

And so the restaurants I was excited about aren't actually on that list. And there's only like four or five, if I remember right, in Detroit that do qualify. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, who knows? Maybe it'll work out to be good. I'm a little disappointed because there's a coupon coming with that and I'm gonna be in New York this weekend

and it would have been a perfect opportunity for that kind of thing, but I'm a little too early because existing cardholders aren't gonna have access for a while to the coupon benefit, but we'll talk more about the timeline on that in a few minutes. Let's talk about coupons though, because there's tons of coupons. So we have the unchanged coupons, the $300 travel rebate, no change there, same

deal. So you'll pay for travel with your card and get $300 back each membership year. Global entry TSA pre-check Nexus will be rebated once every four years or four and a half years or whatever it is that the charge works out on those things. So you still get that benefit, still get a monthly $10 lift discount and a handful of DoorDash discounts, a monthly $5 restaurant promo and two $10 non-restaurant promos, as I recall, and free Dash Pass for a year. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So those are the unchanged coupons. They're still there.

They're still exactly as before. The new coupons, you have the edit, which is Chase's awfully named answer to fine hotels and resorts. So as Nick pointed out in a recent post that they forced us by naming it this badly, they forced us to advertise American Express fine hotels and resorts because how else are we going to explain what this thing is? Because it doesn't tell you what it is.

Yeah, yeah, the edit it sounds like a magazine. It sounds like a magazine. Yeah, anyway. Yeah It does, yeah. Anyway. Yeah, magazine has major. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, so Chase has this luxury collection of hotels that you have access to if you have the Sapphire Reserve card and if you book through Chase, if you book through the edit to any of these hotels, you get things like $100 property credit,

free breakfast every day, potential room upgrade, this standard set of stuff. You get potential early check-in and late check-out, but it does not guarantee late check-out the way fine hotels and resorts guarantees 4 p.m. late check-out. Anyway, that's what the edit is. Let's talk about the coupon. The coupon is $250

back every six months. So, and every time I mentioned every six months, I'm talking about January through June, and again, July through December. And so $250 back, so up to $500 back a year. But, and it's on prepaid reservations, these require a two night stay. So that's where it's different. Fine Hotels and Resorts has their $200 coupon. That is good for a one night stay or a two night stay at the hotel collection to make things complicated.

But this Chase one requires a two night stay. So in that way, the coupon is harder to use than amexes. The edit also has a lot fewer properties so far than fine hotels and resorts does. So that's also another concern. However, something I'll mention now. One, the only point boost that Chase has told us we can guarantee is that we should be guaranteed getting two cents per point value when redeeming Chase points for the edit hotels. That power boost should always be on. I keep saying should because this is what we were told,

kind of waiting to see is this true or not. Assuming that's true, that could be pretty exciting because, so I did an analysis that I posted on the blog and I compared like prices. I was worried, well, this isn't much use if the edit prices are way higher than elsewhere. But when I compared to a fully refundable rate, these were fully refundable, when I compared to fully refundable rates booking direct, it was usually very, very close.

And so the ability to get two cents per point value, add on like all those perks, the free breakfast, the hundred100 property credit, and if you're booking a two-night stay, you should, I think, be able to, when you're booking this prepaid hotel, I think you should be able to, you know, set it up so that all but $250 is paid with points, and then the $250 paid with your card and then you should be able to earn this coupon back. So that actually would give you really good value and it's different though

than how we think about fine hotels and resorts. So, and when I say we, I mean us gamers. So gamers look at the fine hotels and resort. We're not gamers, we're maximizers. Maximizers, thank you. And see, oh, if I can find a cheap stay, I can get a free stay at a fine hotel and resort by booking one night stay that costs $200.

That's the way you look at it. Don't look at this that way. Instead look at it as like, I wanna stay at a luxury hotel. Is this a good value way of booking that hotel? And based on what I know right now, before it's come out, it looks like it will be a good value way

to use your combination of chase points and this coupon to book a stay. You book like, for example, a very nice stay for maybe 30,000 chase points per night. And also you earn hotel points for those stays if it's a hotel chain. So a lot to potentially like there. Okay, that was a long thing about the edit.

I'll be much quicker about these others. Sapphire Reserve exclusive tables, $150 credit per six months. You do not have to reserve the table through Sapphire Reserve Exclusive Tables to get this rebate. What you have to do is show up at one of these restaurants and pay up to $150 or more,

and $150 will be credited back to you automatically once every six months that you do that. We also have StubHub, $150 every six months that you do that. We also have StubHub $150 every six months back and Peloton $10 every month back. Those are the new coupons. Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, I think the edit could be really interesting if it works as we're guessing,

as you're outlining there, particularly because there are hotels that will probably be available through the edit that aren't necessarily typical award hotels. And so you might be able to get good value for your points that way. Like brands like Four Seasons or Mandarin Oriental, where you can normally use points for great value.

Then, you know, they don't have the same kind of award programs that others do. And if you're interested in some of those types of properties, I think it could be interesting. So I'm excited to see what comes there. Now, that said, I have a little bit of trepidation as to whether that'll be great or not,

because just as you were talking, I took a look at a particular market, Abu Dhabi. We've stayed at the Four Seasons there before. And I think there were something like 10-ish properties through Fine Hotels and Resorts, and there's one just that four seasons available through Chase the Edit. And the price through Chase is $100 more

than it is through MX Fine Hotels and Resorts for the two nights, the example two nights, it's $99 more for two nights than the price through Fine Hotels and Resorts. So I think there's gonna be some like comparison shopping that has to go on for you to make sure you're getting a good deal. For sure.

So in my post, like I actually compared all the hotels I looked at to find hotels and resorts and booking direct. And I didn't see that many big discrepancies, but there certainly are some big discrepancies out there. And so you have to be really careful and there's no doubt having less properties is a big issue. But I'd say what Nick said before about being able to book things like Four Seasons

and whatnot that aren't available for a great value through Hotel Points. I think it goes beyond that. I think it goes to Marriott and IHG as well because you often do not get good value with points through those chains. And now you can book for good value through Chase. And it maybe will help prevent people

from transferring points one-to-one to Marriott or IHG because that's a bad idea in general. And so if you start off here, you get your two cents for point value, which is good. That's a great point. If there's a 65% transfer bonus to Marriott, but you can get, if you find a Marriott through the edit where you can get two cents per point,

you'd be much better off booking in through the edit. And then you'd presumably earn hotel points on that. Yeah, yeah. Now it's been reported that people have struggled with getting their points through the edit stays, even though the edit, one of the nice things about that, it clearly says you're gonna earn Bonvoy points for this day or you're gonna earn IH points, whatever.

But so yeah, so it sounds like they're having some growing pains here. What I'm predicting is gonna happen is that once the Sapphire reserve comes out and people are gonna start using that because of the rebate, because of the two cents per point value. So there's gonna be a huge flood of bookings

and then there's gonna be a huge flood of complaints when people aren't getting their hotel points and Chase said they would. So Chase is gonna have to take a look at that, is gonna have to fix that. So my prediction is that in six months, eight months, maybe it'll take a year, that'll smooth itself out. But for now, you know,

go in maybe expecting a fight in the short term. There you go. All right, good advice. But this all does add up to a fair amount here because if you were to take advantage of the edit twice a year that's $500 in rebates if you're able to do it during the qualifying windows. Sapphire reserve tables it's $300 total between the two each year. StubHub $300 total between the two each year and then Peloton the $10 a month if you use that. So it's a fair number of credits if you're able to

make use of those it could come out to be pretty valuable. For sure. I think everyone's going to have to look at these themselves and say, would I really use this? Or am I going to have to spend more in order to use this? Those kind of considerations really make a difference when trying to decide is the new annual fee worth it based on because you're getting these rebates back. So for example, if you buy things through StubHub all the time, maybe you can just look at that as like, hey, I'm going to get $300 back without thinking about it. On the other hand, for me, I never use StubHub.

Or it's so rare that, um, I would look at it as like more of like a little perk that I could, I could, you know, maybe go to games and other events every now and then for free sorta or heavily discounted because that's there, but I'm not going to see it as like getting $300 back a year. Cause I wouldn't have spent that money anyway. Yeah, that's fair. That makes sense. I, and I typically use stuff hub about once a year because I wouldn't have spent that money anyway. Yeah, that's fair. That makes sense. And I typically used to have about once a year. So I'm probably going to spend about that $150, but I probably don't do it twice a year. So very similar. I'd look at it. And for me, since I have a family of four, there are few things that I'm going to get four tickets for $150. So then I have to ask myself, what

is it going to cost me to try to use that perk? And is it going to like Greg said, just make me spend more money than I would have otherwise? Cause then it feels like less of a perk. So, so you have to ask yourself, cause that's obviously going to vary person to person. So we'll talk more about the transition timeline of all of that stuff and when you'd be able to take advantage of it. Personally, I think I'm going to use a bunch of those, but I also think it's going to require some effort like that. Like, you know, I'm going to have to look for, oh, is there an event going on? Is it available through StubHub? Is it going to price the time and effort that's going to be required to find, oh, is there a restaurant through Sapphire Reserve tables? And do we want to eat

there? And how much is it going to cost? And, you know, the same thing with the edit, having to search for hotels, it's going to take time to use these and I think that's the thing I like the least about the coupons is that they're kind of time intensive endeavors to use so not a big fan of that but um but anyway I'm not a I'm not a big fan of whole couponization situation at all but um yeah there's some here that I think I'll be doing pretty well on, but yeah, I'm not sure. So like, we like to talk about like, when you're trying to decide how much are these coupons worth to you, think about like, if you could pre-pay for $250 StubHub discounts per year, how much would you prepay for those?

Again, considering that you have to use them January to June and July to December, there's no way you'd pay $300 for those two coupons. That would be silly. Because why not just use your $300 directly when the time comes? But if you use StubHub a lot, maybe you would pay $250 for getting $50 off.

But if you don't use it hardly at all, maybe you'd pay 50 bucks or something less than that. I don't know. So that's a way to think about how you should value those things. All right. We're not done though. Chase has also added some benefits I kick in if you spend $75,000 in a calendar year. And once you've spent $75,000, these benefits are available for the rest of that calendar year and all of the next. So the 75k benefits are IHG Diamond status. So that gives you free breakfast at IHG hotels.

Southwest Airlines A-list status gives you your free check bags back that they just took away and a number of other perks. $500 Southwest Airlines credit, which is not what it sounds like. It's $500 off when you, or credit, when you book Southwest Airlines through Chase Travel, not when you're booking directly with Southwest.

And $250 of the shops at Chase credit. So you can get $250 off overpriced stuff. Yeah, yeah. So how exciting is all that? For me, very, very little. But for Nick, a bit more. So I mean, I don't fly Southwest. So that $500 is the that's the biggest single number on there. It has very little meaning to me. But tell us what you think. Well, so I think this is really interesting because I'm looking at it and saying

this is pretty applicable to me. I don't have IHG diamond status and I typically don't stay at IHG hotels because I don't have IHG diamond status. I don't want to buy breakfast. So that would give me a reason to consider IHG more often and I wouldn't mind that. I'd actually like to have IHG diamond status. I just don't want to stay 40 or 50 nights a year or whatever it is to get it. Southwest Airlines A-list status is not super useful for me because we have, my wife has the Southwest credit cards. She's got the Southwest priority card, the business card. And so we get the free check bags and the seating benefits.

Basically almost all of the A-list benefits that way as long as we're traveling together. But when I'm traveling without her I don't have that because I don't have the Southwest credit card myself. So A-list status would be marginally useful when I'm traveling by myself. And the other thing that I would like to have, the thing I miss the most, is that I'm a primarily an award traveler. Most of the time we're traveling international business class and so I'm very used to walking up to the priority counters to check our bags at airports because we always check a bag and when we travel domestically I always hate having to get in the long line I can never get in the

short line because we don't have elite status with Southwest so it's worth something to me to be able to get in that a-list line at the airport not a ton but it's worth something to me to be able to do that so I kind of like that the $500 Southwest Airlines credit, we probably fly $500 worth of Southwest flights every year, not even probably. We easily fly $500 worth of Southwest flights a year. I don't think that would be hard to use. I don't love that you got to use it through chase travel but I don't think it'd be hard to use. And the $250 shops credit I'm not wildly excited about because I'm sure it's overpriced like Greg

said but on the flip side I'm sure I's overpriced like Greg said, but on the flip side I'm sure I could probably get Christmas presents like a hundred dollars worth of Christmas presents probably out of that So I'm not like I'm not as turned off by it being Valueless so when you add up values for those things if you you know Greg had written a post a while back valuing NHG diamond status at like $200 based on a theoretical example That was pretty conservative. So I'm not going to get into all the details as to how he came to that number, but a pretty good conservative number.

So if I value that at 200 bucks, if I value the Southwest Airlines credit at $400, that's 600 bucks. If I value the Chase credit at 100, that's 700. So then whatever value I add to the A-list status, let's call it 50 bucks, then that's like $750 worth of stuff for $75,000 spend. That's another 1% return on spend. Now, if I value chase points at one and a half cents per point, then that 75 K spend is going to earn me one and a half cents per point at one X on the card. Plus an additional 1% value that I just said I value these perks at so suddenly it might make sense to put non bonus spend on the card. I'm a little intrigued by that because I might get much better value out of IHG diamond status or perhaps Southwest ALS at some point.

Maybe I'll do better out of the credit through chase. So I'm personally somewhat interested. I'm not totally sure. I thought about it. I wrote about it and now I'm kind of leaning a little bit further away from doing it than I was a few days ago, probably. But I'm thinking about doing it. However, I think it's really weird, the collection of benefits here, because I think the average person who's going to spend $75,000 on their credit card over the course of the year is probably like Greg, probably not flying Southwest a whole lot, right?

I mean, I can't imagine that many people spending $75,000 a year are big enough Southwest fans to care much about A-list status and $500 worth of Southwest credit. So it's weird. It's a weird collection. I think that these brands, IHG and Southwest gave, either gave these to Chase for free or at a heavily discounted rate in order to attract these high net worth individuals

that spend a lot of money. And so Chase is like throwing these out there as like, and the shops, they out that out there too. You know, as like a way to try to encourage that spend, but but you're right, it seems to miss the mark of the target audience. Like if it had been designed, not based on what can we give people cheaply, but rather, you know, what what what will interest will spend? Yes, people to spend 75K?

This is not the right list for that. I also think, I just think it's crazy because there are several opportunities to earn 2X transferable points, not with Chase, but with other programs for all spend. And, you know, so if you spend 75,000 on the Chase Sapphire Reserve at, I'm assuming at one X,

at one X earnings, then you're giving up 75,000 transferable points with some other currency, you know, basically. And that's a lot of value that you're giving up by doing that. Anyway, great point. Let's move on from that. Uh, because we could, we could talk for about that forever.

And people, people might be thinking, Oh, what about welcome offers? That's way better value for your spending. Nick addressed that in his post. So go to his post if you're interested in getting into the weeds on this conversation. There you go. All right. So now we got to talk about old versus new.

Out with the old and in with the new, Greg. So we got to talk about what's, you know, overall after we've talked about all of that. Okay, so what does it all mean? Is it good? Is it bad? Is it better? Is it worse? Should you upgrade now? Should you wait?

When are you going to get to use these benefits? Talk to me about old versus new. Yeah. Well, let's talk about upgrading downgraded separately. So we're gonna go over the timeline after this quick discussion, but just looking at the old card versus the new card, here are my thoughts, then I wanna hear Nick's thoughts.

My thoughts are this, that old card, it was simple. It was easy to recommend to just about anyone who travels a lot. It was so easy to understand. Earn 3x transferable points for all travel. Period. Redeem those points for 1.5 cents per point for any travel book through Chase, period. Oh, and by the way, you get $300 back for that travel that you're spending on your card anyway, each year, and you get great travel productions. Like that combination was really, really compelling. Oh, and you get Sapphire, sorry,

you get lounge access at Priority Pass and so on. So it all made it a very compelling package and most of all, it just, I had no problem recommending it to anyone I know who's fairly affluent. It doesn't have to be super affluent, but fairly affluent and travels a lot. Like it's just a great, easy, easy to paint picture.

The new, you got higher annual fee, you got more coupons, and simplicity is just out the window. It's, I can't tell the story in two sentences as I could before. I can't decide who it's right for because most of the, like, my richer friends, they don't wanna be bothered with coupons. They wouldn't see any value in all those things.

They might value earning 4X instead of 3X for hotels and flights, but I don't really know. You know? So it's tough. I feel like the number of people I would recommend this for is way smaller. And I mean, way, way smaller, you know, because before it was just an easy answer.

Now, you know, I look at it for myself. I say, okay, I'm one who does, I don't like more coupons, but at the same time, I'm used to figuring out how best to use coupons around a bunch of different cards. And I'm looking at these things saying, you know what? I actually think there's a good chance that I'll get actually probably more than the annual fee

back in rebates. And I'll also value the ability to get Forex for flights and hotels. I value the travel protections that comes with using it for those things. So there's enough things I value there that I'm willing to put up with all that complexity, probably, to keep the card. But that's me. I'm really unusual. Yeah. So we had readers like-

That's putting it lightly. Greg is really unusual. I'm really unusual, yeah. And so, you know, when I wrote things like this in the posts, in posts about this, you know, readers would say, you know, oh, you're overselling the card. I'm like, really? I said I wouldn't recommend it to most people. But people hear what I say about my own situation and take that as advice and I don't mean it as advice I'm saying this is how it's I'm reacting to it. I think most people it's it's probably actually more negative than positive But what do you think? No, I mean very much the same So I think that the one of the exciting things about the miles and points hobby is that you don't have to be terribly

Affluent to travel really well as though you were is that you don't have to be terribly affluent to travel really well as though you were affluent, right? Because if you learn the transfer partners and how to open cards and earn good welcome bonuses and get rewarded for your spend, you can enjoy a level of travel that's well beyond what your means would otherwise be able to cover, right? And so that's one of the things I like about it.

However, that aside, the bank must be designing products, these luxury products, so to speak, these super expensive credit cards for an affluent clientele. That's who they're imagining their target market is probably, right? And so I look at this, I'm like, okay, an $800 credit card, they're obviously going after a more affluent crowd with that. And that more affluent crowd, exactly exactly what Greg said already has their time stretched thin and doesn't need more complication they don't need a list of coupons they have to

remember to use that's exactly the kind of thing that turns off that target market is anything that's going to be more of a pressure on their time or energy or focus, I would think is unappealing. And I think that at that level, most people I know that are in that sort of bracket are looking for ways to simplify their life, not complexify it. So this does the absolute opposite. And like Greg said, I think I will probably do pretty well with this new card, but that's because I enjoy going after all the ways to maximize stuff and I don't look at it as a time suck that I don't like, but

most people are not going to be that way. So like Greg said, I don't know anybody in my social circle who I would recommend the new card to and the old card. I certainly did know a lot of people. So that's a huge, huge downgrade in my opinion, even though I think I'll get more value out of it than I'm gonna put into it. I think it's such a huge downgrade for almost everybody.

I mean, it's hard for me to imagine. If you're not a blogger who like loves to bust out the pencil and find the ways to beat the system, I just don't think this would appeal to you. I mean, I can't imagine. Yeah, no. What are they making this for? that's what's so strange is I can't figure out who the target audience is because it's not us. They don't want the people like us that are going to get more value out of it.

I think they want, well, I guess, all right. I think I know who they, they want people who, who look at it and think they're going to get more value because of all those coupons add up to like 1200, more than $1,200, but aren't going to get more value or actually going to get significantly less value from it. That's who they want. And that's why it makes it so hard for us to recommend it to people. Yeah. Yeah. Because they're just trying to get people with it. I mean, this is like fodder for the Dave Ramsey crowd to be like, oh man, the bank is just going to beat you at their own game because yeah, I mean, this is designed for the bank to take advantage. I feel like in this case, right? I mean, it's designed for the bank to win because they're going to be able to say, oh,

you can get $2,500 in value, but without saying, but you're going to have to work really hard for it. You're going to have to be willing to plan travel every six months and, you know, book a stop hub event every six months and do all of these things that are gonna add pressures and things you got to put in a calendar and set a reminder for so they know that they're probably gonna come out ahead on the annual fee on the vast majority of people that sign up for the card so and and I think that the 3x travel thing is a huge downgrade for so many people because

one of the things you said that I don't think you harped on enough there was that for a long time, it's been very easy to recommend this card for anybody who travels a lot because 3X, all travel and dining is really relevant for people who travel a lot. And it was easy to recommend this card to book travel because it's got excellent travel protections. It's much less easy to recommend this card to book travel now because now I have to say use this to book your flights and hotels and get great travel protections. But if you're booking an expensive cruise or you're booking some like expensive, I don't know, Safari

Lodge that might not code as a hotel or whatever, I don't know, because if you're only going to earn one X, then suddenly that travel protection is costing you a bit. Maybe you're better off buying some other type of travel insurance and using a card that offers three X on all travel instead of this. And that's too complicated.

What Chase wants you to tell them is, oh, just book everything through Chase travel, because then you'll get eight X everywhere and you're good to go. That's what Chase wants you to tell them is, oh, just book everything through Chase Travel, because then you'll get 8X everywhere, and you're good to go. That's what Chase wants you to tell them, and that way they get more, because they earn money for travel book through Chase Travel. So yeah, that's what they want.

That's not what we're going to say, because that's even more complicated, because then you have to comparison shop. Like, is it anywhere near as good of a deal as you get going elsewhere probably often probably not? Yeah. Yeah Yeah, and I mean and I'm I'm low-key annoyed I mentioned before about the fact that now when I'm planning a trip if I'm going somewhere I'm gonna go to I don't know to go to say, Vienna now. I have to look and see okay Like what are my award options for the hotels?

And now what's available through Amex Find Hotels and Resorts and what's available through the edit and is there anything available through the Capital One Premier collection? And I got to do a million different searches in order to find a hotel. I don't want that. And I know Chase just wants me to go to Chase Travel and that's it, but I'm not going to do that. There's nothing, there's no way they're gonna incentivize me to do that.

So it's just, it's more time and more effort in order to be able to use the card. I would have rather not gone this direction, but here we are. So now we're gonna look for our opportunities, right? I mean, there's nothing you can do except time things out the right way. That's the next introduction to the next section is let's talk about the timeline of the rollout

of the Sapphire Reserve. So the new card launches Monday, June 23rd, which is just a couple days after this podcast drops. And for anyone who applies that on Monday or later, you get, once you get the card, you have immediate access to all of the card features that we talked about. And you also immediately don't have the old features, meaning 3X travel, you're never, for all travel,

you're never gonna see that because you just got the card new on Monday, June 23rd or later. And this also applies if you wait until then to product change from a different card to the Sapphire Reserve. And you'll never see the one and a half cent per point value towards travel. All right. That's the simple part of the timeline. The complicated part is if you have the Sapphire Reserve before Monday, and that means you could have it right this moment, or it means you could press pause

on this podcast and go call Chase and product change one of your Freedom or Sapphire Preferred Card or whatever to the Sapphire preferred card or whatever to the Sapphire reserve. If you do, if you either have it now or product change to it or apply for it before Monday, June 23rd, then things get outrageously complicated. I'm glad you didn't say interesting. You said outrageously complicated because let's call it what it is.

It's outrageously complicated because let's call it what it is. It's outrageously complicated. Yeah. Well, some of these things, I'll say that there were rumors about some parts of this before it came out and I said, there's no way that's true. That's too complicated. Why would Chase do that? Well, they did. Okay.

So first of all, so what happens on June 23rd for existing cardholders? Now, if you're not an existing cardholder, just skip ahead to the next section of the show because. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. If you're not an existing cardholder and you don't think you might wanna upgrade before. Well, all right, yes. There might be a reason you wanna be coming, you pause this and become an existing cardholder.

Good, good, good point, good point. Okay, on June 23rd, what changes is that points boosts become active, meaning you can get up to two cents per point value towards travel book through chase, but you'll get at least 1.5 cents per point value. So you actually have the best of both worlds for a while. None of the new coupons we talked about or new perks like IHG Platinum Status or Apple TV Plus, none of that will be active yet. So it'll be pretty much the same card that you have now on Monday but with points boosts active on top of the 1.5x redemptions. And you'll continue to earn 3x for all travel for a while. So that while is until October 26.

October 26 is transition day. That makes sense. I haven't even gotten to the- You pick a random day in October, it's not even like the beginning of a month or the end of a month. It's not like, what a weird- But we have not yet begun to get complicated yet

until we talk about, well, actually, let me go back to this. So here's what happens on October 26th. The coupons all become live. So all those discounts, you can suddenly use rebates. You can suddenly get rebates for the edit and the tables and the stub hubs and so on. You can activate your free Apple TV and Apple music on October 26.

Any purchases you make from then on will be based on the new structure. 4X flights and hotels, 1X all other travel, and 8X through chase travel for all travel. Your next annual fee after October 26, whenever your annual fee is charged after that, it'll be $7.95. So think about that. Let me give an example of what I mean by that. Let's say your annual fee comes due in September of this year. That's good because you'll be charged $550 and it won't be until September of 2026

that you'll be charged the new 795. So that's great for people who have get charged before October 26th. All right, now we get to the really complicated part. What happens with your ability to redeem points for 1.5 cents per point? This is the part where I said I did not believe this could possibly be true. Any it doesn't go away entirely for a while. Any but any points you earn from October 26

onward do not qualify. But old points that you earned before that, you still get 1.5 cents per point value through October 25th of 2027. So two more years of 1.5 cents per point value for points you earned before October 26th of this year. And that includes if you move points from other cards before that date to your Sapphire Reserve card, all those points can be used for 1.5 cents per point value for two more years.

How do you know? Like, so how do you know going forward which points have been used for any given thing? I have no idea. Like, so if you transfer some points to Hyatt, are you giving up some old points that have 1.5 cents value on the portal? Probably.

Probably first in, first out, maybe? I would assume. We don't know. And what happens late in this time period when, you know, let's say there's an award that you want that costs like 100,000 points and you have 50,000 old points and a bunch of new points. Do you get partially that old value and partially new?

I tried asking Chase this, but the reply didn't make any sense. So I don't know. Anyway, so it's all extremely complicated, but the short answer is if you like this 1.5 cents per point value for Redemption through Chase Travel, then it can be locked in for quite a while. If you've earned a bunch of points by October before October 26 and as long as you have the card

before this Monday before June 23rd. Yeah. So, alright. So, if you've got a whole bunch of points or you're, let me take it back. If you upgrade before June 23rd And or you already have a Sapphire Reserve Then your play would be to get as many of your points onto that Sapphire Reserve card as possible so if you got other chase cards that earn points and move all of those over to your Sapphire Reserve before October 26th or Presumably even you might have enough time to open another card like an ink cash or an ink business preferred or whatever it might be and earn the welcome bonus and move

those points to your Sapphire reserve before October 26th and then you'll be able to get one and a half cents per point or more, you know, because you'll still get if a points boost is available for two cents per point, you're still going to get that instead of the one and a half, but you'll just make sure that your floor value is at least one and a half. If you get those points moved, but again, that requires you to a have the Sapphire reserve before June 23rd and B have those points on your Sapphire reserve card come October 26th. And as Greg said, if you earn more points on the card

after that date, I would assume that any points you transfer or use in any way are going to be the one and a half cents per point points, not the potentially one cent points. And so if you're gonna do this, be ready for some complexity, like it's not gonna be straightforward, it's not gonna be simple. And it's almost guaranteed to something not work right

at some point, and nobody at Chase is gonna have any idea what you're talking about when you try and explain what you know. Oh my gosh, no. Points that should be worth more than it has those good points. I have to read a reader comment to my post about all this. The reader wrote, does a card come with an accountant? I mean, it should, it should, right? It should.

It's so absurdly complicated. How much is Chase saving by having this weird thing about differentiating the points earned before this date and after that date? Why not just say if your grandfather didn't, you get to keep it until a certain date and boom? Like they could have made it simple. Anyway, if you can grockle that,

here's the opportunity for those that are interested in the 1.5 and keeping the annual fee lower for a while. What you could do if you have a Freedom Card or a Chase Sapphire Preferred or the old Sapphire without a preferred or reserved name on it, before June 23rd, you could product change to the Sapphire Reserve. And when that happens, you'll get a new annual fee date. And that usually is in a couple months from when you product change.

So I'm guessing it's gonna be around, based on my own experience of recently product changing, I'm guessing that your next annual fee will be probably late September or early October. If I'm right about that, then that next annual fee will be the 550. You will be in the meantime charged like a pro rated smaller amount

based on how much time is left in your, until then. So then what you have is you locked in sort of the best of both worlds for a while. You'll still be able to use the 1.5 cents per point value through the travel portal until October of 2027, based on points earned before October 26 of this year. And you'll be able to get the points boost as well and you'll get those coupons in October of this year and you won't have to pay the 795 annual fee until around September or October of 2026. So that's a way of getting all of that stuff for a while. That's an opportunity that if you're listening to this now before October 23rd, you have a short

amount of time to. For June 23rd. For June 23rd. For June 23rd. Thank you. Whoops. Um, you have a short amount of time to, to make that product change if you want to, but I do have

to caution you, rumors are, are that the welcome bonus for the new card is gonna be huge. We don't know what that means. Is 120,000 points huge? Not to me when we've seen 100,000 for the Sapphire Preferred card. Is 150,000 points huge? Well, kinda, but not compared to the biggest offers

that we've seen from Atmax. So how much you're giving up by product changing now versus waiting to apply sometime on Monday or later, we don't have any idea, we haven't been told what the new bonus will be. Yeah, I think that's a great point, but to hammer home something that I think you only lightly touched on there is that if you're an existing cardholder, starting on October 26, you'll be able to use those

rebates. So for this year, for 2025, you'll be able to use a $250 of the Addict Credit as long as you use it by December 31st, right? You'll be able to use $150 in StubHub credit, and you'll be able to use 150 in Sapphire Reserve Tables potentially. credit and you'd be able to use 150 in Sapphire Reserve tables potentially and then you can use both of those credits next year before you get hit with the 795 fee. So you'd be able to use essentially what is it $750 total worth of edit credit, $450 in total stub hub credits, $450 in total dining credits before you end up having to pay the new annual

fee. So that might be worth the trade for the $550 annual fee. And so you have to just ask yourself, how many of those coupons do you think you're going to use? Because if you're going to use them all, then upgrading now might end up being a better deal, even if there's a great welcome bonus that comes. If you're like, I don't know, I'm going to have to work really hard to use those. I don't like the annoyance.

Well, then yeah, maybe just wait and see and get the new welcome offer, you know, if that's appealing to you. We're in a situation where my wife's annual fee posts, I think October 1st of each year, which by the way, Greg said your next field be late September, early October. I think if I maybe I'm wrong, but I think chase annual fees all post on the first of a month. So I'm pretty sure they're always on a first, I think. So, so you're either going to get charged the five. If you upgrade right now, if you pause this right now and you upgrade before June 23rd,

I think you'll get hit with the five 50 annual fee, either September 1st or October 1st. I think. And so I don't don't shoot the messenger if it comes November 1st. That would really stink. But hopefully it'll come September, October 1st at 550. And then you'd get more of those, all of those benefits starting in late October. Also, don't forget- I think I'm gonna hold off myself. Don't forget the travel rebate.

So the travel rebate is the one coupon that is based on membership year, not calendar year. And so when you upgrade, you should be eligible for the $300 travel credit until, let's say October 1st is the date, until then, and then after that date, another $300 travel credit until the following October. So, you know, if you just add that into your calculations

that, because that's really easy to earn. You just, any spend on any travel at all gets that rebate. True story, so it might be worth upgrading. You have to consider whether you wanna wait and find out what the huge new welcome offer is, and we say that not knowing how huge is or if it's even going to feel huge to us. But, you know, let's see.

In my household, we're splitting the difference, so I'm keeping my, I recently re-upgraded to the Sapphire reserve. Cause I want to do this whole thing, but my wife will be free to apply new for the Sapphire reserve. So if it's, if it's a really great offer, she'll be able to do that.

And then, then we can get a little both. And I'm not under 524 right now, so I'm not going to be eligible for the new bonus, but I'm also not sure that I'll be able to use all the credit. So I'm still thinking about this. I might upgrade my freedom unlimited because if I'm able to lock in the 550 fee, maybe that works out mathematically to be good enough. But I'm I'm on the fence a little bit because at some point I'll be eligible to get the card and probably it'll stick around with a good welcome offer for a while. So we'll see. We'll see. All right. That I think wraps up this week's main event in this week's question of the

week. We're going to go ahead and do a question about the Sapphire Reserve. So Ryan writes in with I think a good question that harps back to what we've been discussing a little bit. Ryan says, my wife has the Sapphire Reserve so I was excited to hear about the card refresh. While there does seem to be some useful value for us in the credits, I'm still unsure if it's a keeper or if I should just have my wife downgrade to a Freedom Flex. I've never had a Sapphire Reserve so I am eligible for the welcome bonus but I'm currently in 524 Purgatory until next Flex. I've never had a Sapphire Reserve, so I am eligible for the welcome bonus, but I'm currently in 524 Purgatory until next year. Read your article that the new $795 annual fee

will be implemented for current cardholders after October 26th. I looked at my wife's account, and last year the annual fee was billed on November 1st. Exactly the bad situation we just talked about. I'm very disappointed that less than a week's difference will cost us $250 more. My question is there any way to game this into one more lower annual fee? If for instance we requested changing the billing cycle, could we move it up so it gets billed on October 25th and thus is $550? What

do you think Greg? Is there any way to play this? If you're in that situation where your renewal date has been November 1st, if you look back at your old statements and you're like, oh man, my annual fee gets charged on November 1st, so I'm going to get hit with $7.95 on November 1st, and I'm only going to be able to use the new benefits starting on October 26th. What's the play? What do you do? Is there anything you can do? Well, so if Ryan has a Freedom card or, you know, Ryan said he's never had the Sapphire Reserve card, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have the Sapphire Preferred or a Freedom card, and he could do the upgrade, you know, trick that we talked about earlier in the show and get a annual fee date of, you know,

maybe October 1st. And so that would be kind of ideal. And then what he could do with, what they could do with his wife's is simply use it, get all the value from it until the next annual fee hits and downgrade that to a freedom, for example. There, I guess there would be a few days where, so once the annual fee hits,

I think you have what, 30 days or something that you could cancel or downgrade to not have to pay that annual fee at all. So, you know, they could use that time to take advantage of some of the coupons before before doing that. That's, that's my thought. Do you have any other thoughts about that?

No, that's that's exactly it because I'm almost positive. I'm like 99.936% positive that all chase annual fees post in the first of a month. So I don't think that changing your billing cycle date is likely to bump that up by a month so so I don't think you're gonna be able to do anything to change it and I say that and I say it with some question in my voice hopefully if you're listening to this Ryan you take a look at the comments on YouTube and and on our blog post about the podcast because if some reader has figured out a way to make that work in the past they are almost sure to comment on it so make sure

you're checking for comments to see if somebody has a suggestion as to how you might be able to bump up that annual fee date to October 1st but I don't have one I don't think that you're going to be able to do that so what Greg said if you got another card yourself that you can upgrade now that would probably be your best play. The other thing to keep in mind for you is that, you know, if you're eligible for the welcome bonus on it, but you're in 524 purgatory, I mean, you might consider lobbying in an application once the new welcome bonus comes out, because we've seen in the past that the 524 rule has been relaxed oftentimes when there's a big new card out when they're trying to promote a

big splashy new offer and they want more people to get approved. So I wouldn't be shocked if we see for some amount of time after the new card launches that people over 524 are getting approved. I don't know how much that amount of time might be but but you know if you're interested in it you might say well okay I'm gonna have to pay the $7.95, but I'll get the big new welcome bonus and all the coupons and maybe that's a better situation for you than paying the $7.95 on your wife's card come November 1st. So it might still be worth lobbying in an application if you don't have a card right now to upgrade

to the Sapphire Reserve, or you just think that the new welcome offer might be appealing enough for you and it might be so That's a possible option to that's that's that's a really great point great idea All right That brings us to the end of today's episode if you've enjoyed this and you'd like to get more of this stuff in your email Inbox each day or each week you want to go to frequentmiler.com Subscribe to join our email list follow us on all the various want to go to frequentmiler.com slash subscribe to join our email list. Follow us on all the various social media. Join our frequentmiler insiders Facebook group, wherever you're watching or listening. Don't forget to like this and leave us some feedback as

well. We appreciate that. And if you have a piece of feedback that you'd like to be considered for a giant mailbag or a question that you'd like to be considered for a question of the week, you can send that to send it to mailbag at frequentmiler.com. Bye everybody. I'm Pauline Fromer. I've spent most of my life writing, talking, and thinking about travel. Not just where to go, but how to go in a way that's meaningful. On the Fromer's Travel Show, we explore the trends, people, and ideas shaping how we see the world. If you care about the why as much as the where, I hope you'll join me. You can find new episodes weekly at

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