Frequent Miler on the Air - Deals too good to be true. Should we shut up about them? | Ep96 | 5-1-21

Episode Date: May 1, 2021

0:56 Giant Mailbag: Are Capital One's partners the right fit for a beginner? 05:28 What crazy thing....did Greg and Nick do this week? https://frequentmiler.com/good-news-marriott-extending-certificates-and-points/ 08:03 Mattress running the numbers: Is it worth buying Wyndham points, or should you wait? https://frequentmiler.com/buy-wyndham-points-for-less-than-1c-each/ 15:55 Main Event: Deals too good to be true. Should we shut up about them? https://frequentmiler.com/vacasa-success-entire-cabin-booked-for-15k-wyndham-points-per-night-transferred-from-capital-one/ https://frequentmiler.com/7-5k-each-way-to-hawaii-with-turkish-miles-and-smiles/ 42:35 Post Roast https://frequentmiler.com/venture-ultimate-hypothetical/ https://frequentmiler.com/whats-the-best-card-combination-a-benjamin-can-buy/ 54:49 Question of the Week: Should I use points to pay for my trip or save them for something more valuable? Thanks for liking this video, subscribing, and enabling notifications! To join our email list, go to: https://frequentmiler.com/subscribe/ Music credit: Annie Yoder

frequent miler on the air starts now today's main event too good to be true should we shut up stop stop it greg stop talking about that deal and deals are so awesome that we know they're gonna die should we stop broadcasting them everywhere should we stop repeating it for our audience? You're going to kill another deal, Greg. You're going to kill another deal. In the hopes that these deals will last longer. We're going to debate that. Luckily, it's just me and you debating it. So we don't have to deal with some angry people who have been burned when deals died. Although we're probably angry about something. I was going to say, I mean, we've gotten burned once or twice too.

I'm sure we have. Yeah. We'll talk more about that. That's pretty good. First, we've got the giant mailbag. I'm hoping to see it. There we go. There's the mailbag. I like it. Pull out some giant mail. Today's giant mail comes from Alex via

YouTube, a YouTube comment. This was in reply to the Capital One Steps Up to Bat podcast from, I think, about a week ago. Interesting discussion on Capital One. Yes, maybe best solo card for travel. If you know how to use

some of the more obscure transfer partners, but if you're using miles on these partners, you're at least an intermediate player in the hobby and therefore not going to be limiting yourself to just one card. Really good point. That was an excellent, I saw that comment and I thought to myself, that's a great point. There's not really a counterpoint for that. Capital One's transfer partners do require some at least intermediate knowledge of the game in order to get great value out of them.

There is too a counterpoint. I have a counterpoint. Good, I'm glad you do. Bring it out. Okay. Tell Alex why he's wrong. So the venture card we've been arguing is a great just all around if you just want one card. And the reason it's my counterpoint is this. Just because you're a beginner at some point

doesn't mean you're always going to be a beginner. So if you're, you know, heck bent on having just one card and you think someday you might like to get better rewards for your spend out of the cards rewards, you could get it now and you might get better at this as things go along. You might learn how to use those transfer partners. And it goes even further. You might gain a friend who has a Capital One card that knows how to use these points better. And you can transfer your points to your friend who could then book those things as well. Either way, the power, you know, the ability to transfer it to partners is a big thing. And now that they have one-to-one transfer partners, it's a big thing. It makes that card more valuable and more, and it, you know,

it makes it so that I'm more likely to recommend it. If somebody asks me, what's the one best card, you know, I always say, oh, it depends. But if I get the feeling that there's someone who really just wants one card and they're into travel, I think the venture card has a much higher standing in my recommendation ratings than it used to now because I'll know, hey, they're going to at least get that two cents per dollar spent value. But down the road, I might even be able to recommend other things to them. I might know that they're going to be doing a certain kind of travel and I'll say, Hey, did you know that you could transfer those points to Wyndham or, you know, Turkish? I probably wouldn't say Turkish, but because we know those are hard to buck, but you get what I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah. I totally depended on the situation, but yeah, I, I actually agree with

that because I had a friend recently who asked me what card they should get and they were looking for just one card. And I specifically asked, are you interested in a combination? I asked what, what do you spend the most money on and are you interested in a combination of cards? You know, with two cards, three cards be okay. You're looking for just one and they were very clear. They just wanted one card that they could use everywhere and get the best possible return. And,

and the venture card wasn't what I had recommended at the time. But now looking back on it, I kind of wish I had because it would have, like you said, given opportunities where, you know, whenever the world returns to normal and we can have dinner together, I could be like, oh, you're interested in going here. Well, listen, this is what you could do with those capital one points. And I perhaps could have used it as a gateway drug to get them interested in the game. So, and there are people that want one. I mean, I talked about it in a number of posts already. My parents are one card people. They like one credit card. And they got a pile of these capital one points. And so I told them, Hey, listen, don't throw away your capital one points. And they were like, Oh, we're not, we've got a lot of them. And I said, yeah, I know. So

here's what you could do with it. And I sent them a picture of the vacation rental that I booked. And I said, you know, this was just 15,000 capital one points a night. And they were like, oh, you know, suddenly perked up their ears a little bit after all these years of first class travel that they're not at all interested in seeing those pictures do it. But the vacation rental that did at least raise an eyebrow. Nice, nice. All right. Yeah. Okay, so that was the giant mailbag. All right. So what crazy thing did Greg and Nick do this week? This week, we did a Ask Us Anything live on YouTube.

And someone asked us- No, that part wasn't crazy. We do that every other week on Tuesday at noon Eastern time, which for those who are on the free night certificates that we all have, that a whole bunch of them got extended to August 1st. And now we're coming up, it's getting closer and closer to that August 1st deadline. And a lot of us are looking at them saying, I don't know how we're going to spend our certificates before then. And so the crazy thing was, I'll say what I said, and you can say what you. I don't think I said, I don, we definitely should hang up our day job as fortune tellers because, you know, it didn't work out well because I agreed. I said, I don't think

so either. A little comment kind of made me read into it in the Marriott Bonvoy group. And I was like, oh, maybe. But I was like, I'm just crazy. I'm getting crazy reading too much into this. And so I pretty firmly thought that they wouldn't. But of course not even 48 hours later, Marriott went ahead and extended those certificates. So in most cases, in most cases, supposedly if you had one that was originally scheduled to expire before 2020, that won't get extended. Now I only half believe that the IT is set up to get that right. But we should know in a few days because on May 6th, your certificates and your Marriott account should reflect the new expiration date, which for those that are extended is going to be January 3rd of

2022. So, you know, it's only an extra six months, but that certainly beats not getting the extra six months. So, hey, we were wrong. That was the crazy thing. We made a prediction that turned out to be wrong, not even 48 hours later, but hey, it's good to be wrong, right? Well, I think, I think you should learn your lesson when, when Greg predicts something immediately predict the opposite and whatever the opposite is, whatever the opposite is and you'll do pretty well. All right. Let's, let's move on from this topic. It's time for Mattress Running the Numbers. This week, what do we have? We have Wyndham points on sale. So it's not exactly a mattress run.

We're not going anywhere, checking into a hotel, just earning the points. Instead, we're talking about buying points, which is something we don't normally talk about doing speculatively. We don't really talk about buying points very much at all. But in this case, Wyndham is offering a 25% discount on the sale of points. They ordinarily charge 1.3 cents per point with the sale. It's 0.975 cents per point. So a little under a penny a point, and you can buy up to 45,000 points. So the 45,000 points will run you, I think, $468 and a quarter or something like that. So you can buy yourself a bunch of Wyndham points.

And that seems kind of interesting on the surface. If you've been following along with what we've been talking about with Vacasa, because Vacasa vacation rentals cost 15,000 points per bedroom per night. We've written about the fact that there are plenty of one bedroom places that you can book an entire vacation rental home for 15,000 points. So with this sale, you could basically buy the points for those nights for just under 150 bucks a night, which can be a great deal in many cases, not all, but of course, in many cases. The question though, however, is, well, first of all, is that a deal? Would you even consider that? Let's start there. Would you even consider buying those points? Oh, definitely. If I had plans to book a Wyndham stay, whether that's through Vacasa or somewhere else, and the value of the points for the stay would be significantly more than one cent each, which in the example you gave when you booked a Vacasa vacation rental, I think you're looking at about 3 cents per point. So that would be a tremendous return on your investment to buy those points and use them for that, assuming you didn't already have the wind and points to spend. So I think that's a great

deal. And I think we've talked a lot of times about how you could have money, like cash money that you've kept from bank bonuses or from cash back cards and keep it as like a sort of transferable currency that can be used for things like this. And so right now, since it's very close to one cent per point, you can think of it as transferring pennies to Wyndham points. And if you were jealous about Capital One, you know, people with Capital One miles being able to transfer to Wyndham, well, you can now transfer your pennies to Wyndham at the same rate, tiny bit better rate

than Capital One can do. And, you know, even if you have chase points, you could do that. It would mean cashing out your chase points for only one cent each, which is not great, but you could transfer one-to-one essentially. Or city thank you points, same thing. But only the key point there, though, to note,

is that Wyndham only allows you to buy up to 45,000 points per year. So you can only do that with up to 45,000. So you get $450. You can trade out for 45,000 points, which is something I'm thinking about because, I mean, I have more Capital One points that I could transfer over to Wyndham, but there's part of me that says, well, I can maintain the flexibility and use some of the cash that I set aside from bank bonuses, just buy these Wyndham points. I mean, is it worth paying a penny each for my Capital One points?

That's very debatable because the backup plan for those is one cent each. So that's not an argument I'm going to have today, but there's certainly discussion to be had there. But I think that it can make sense. If you got a vacation rental, you're looking to book, it can make sense, especially at just under a cent apiece. So I think that's already pretty interesting. But then a reader pointed out the fact that these points were on sale about a month ago. And somehow I missed this. They were on sale with a 40% bonus about a month ago. And so that's this. They were on sale with a 40% bonus about a month ago. And so that's a little different than a discount. So right now it's 25% off the usual price to buy points. Instead, what they did last month was they added 40% bonus points on top of whatever

you bought. So if you bought 10,000 points, you got 14,000 points. You get 40% more points for the full price, 10,000 point price. So that worked out actually to be a little bit cheaper. After the bonus, it was 0.93 cents per point. So that deal came around, like I said, about a month ago. And there were two benefits there. One is that the points were a little bit cheaper per point. And two was that since you got a 40% bonus, you could actually buy more total points. So if you bought the full max 45,000 points and got a 40% bonus,

you'd actually end up with 63,000 points. So it would have cost you more because you were buying more points essentially, but you would have been able to buy enough for four free nights that, for example, a one bedroom Vicasa rental or a mid tier Wyndham property. So somebody said,

does it make sense to buy points in the sale right now? Right. The sale that's just under a penny a point, or should I hold off and hope that that 40% bonus comes back? What do you think? Right. Well, it's, it's pretty clear to me that we haven't seen those Wyndham 40% bonuses all that often. Like we, we dug back and looked and saw there was one identical about a year ago, but it's not like they're coming out every other month or something like that. So if you, if you have a need for Wyndham points now, then it'd be crazy not to go for it because they, the difference in price is minimal. I guess the one exception I'd say is if you're like, well, I need 60,000 points,

and 45,000 points isn't enough for what I need, then maybe it does make sense to wait, because you're not going to get 60,000 points by buying them right now. What about you? What do you think? I mean, that's tough. I look at it, too, and I say, well, you know, it was only last year that Wyndham increased the max points you could purchase.

Before last year, you can only buy 10,000 Wyndham points per year. You can only buy enough for a single night per year. That's probably why we haven't seen those kind of sales before. I don't know. Or we never reported it. They could have been doing them every other month, but who would have cared? Because you couldn't even buy enough for one free night for a long time.

Everything was 15,000 points per night. You couldn't even buy enough for that. It's very possible that they ran sales more often. We just totally ignored them in the past. Or also possible that now that they've increased the limit, maybe they didn't regularly run sales in the past and everybody just ignored them anyway. And maybe now that you can buy more points, maybe they intend to offer the sales more often, but didn't through the pandemic. Who knows? So it's hard to predict. I think that it's possible that we won't see that 40% bonus for another year. It's also possible that they'll decide to go the Hilton route, put it on sale with a 40% bonus every month. So I totally agree with Greg.

I think if you have a vacation rental that you would like to book now and the 45,000 points can do it, or at least get you three nights, I would go ahead and book it. I would buy the points now. I wouldn't wait because I don't know if the 40% bonus is coming around again. And if you can get by with 45,000 points, if you only need, for example, three nights at 15K a night, well, then, you know, buy those now. And then if the 40% comes back again and you find something else you want to use the points on, well, then have player two buy points the second time around, you know, have somebody else in your household buy points to book.

So I'm going to do everybody a favor and say, I predict that those 40% bonuses will not happen for quite a while. Love it. Love it. It's great. Can't wait to see next week's email. Okay. So one caution, if you're going to be buying window points, do note, don't only do it. If you know, you're going to be using them soon. Uh, they do expire in four years and they're having activity in your account does not reset them. So make sure you're, you know, you're going to use them. Very good. Okay. So that was mattress running the numbers. I think then that brings us to this week's main event, main event time when deals are too good to be true. Should we shut up about them? We've been writing a lot. We've been talking a

lot about the Vacasa deal where you can book any, as you said earlier, any one bedroom vacation rental for only 15,000 points per night with Wyndham points. And that seems like a spectacularly good deal. It is a spectacularly good deal. And every time we write about it or talk about it, we hear from some people saying, oh, it's going to die any moment now. Stop talking so much about it. With all the coverage, it can't last. So are we making a mistake? What's going on? I mean, it's a great question. It's something that comes up now and then people say, oh, you're going to kill this deal. You're going to kill that deal by talking about it. And so, you know, we do have to think about that and consider it a little

bit. And I think it's a fair point. You know, when you look at something like this, the Casa thing, it's true. It's too good of a deal to last long-term. There are some places where it's not a great deal, but there are too many places where booking is just an outstanding deal. Number one, that I think they don't need to keep around. So probably talking about as much as we have is going to contribute to more and more people booking it. And probably at some point it's going to die. On top of that, we seem to have realized, we said, I think last week, that it seems like there's just one person answering all the emails on this. It seems like that. Yeah.

I don't know that that's true, but I kind of think really, I mean, it's like one of those funny things that we would tell you that one person answering the emails must be really unhappy. But I really think poor Lizzie is just probably slammed with emails right now. So that part of it, yeah, I mean, they can't possibly keep up with the bookings if they literally only have one person doing it over the long term. So, I mean, there is some chance that it's going to lead to killing deals. And that comes up now and then. People say, hey, why are you writing about this? Why are you talking about this?

Because it's just going to kill it faster and it's going to be your fault. So, the alternative then, I suppose, is should we keep things like that to ourselves like do you think it'd be better would we be able to keep that under wraps if just Greg if Greg found it the Picasso thing or somebody had you know put it on your radar anyway and you took a look and you're like wow yeah this is a great deal so would it be better for you to just tell me maybe slide it into a post somewhere like in the middle and not talk about it again. Would that have been a better solution with the cost? I mean, if the cost of dies next week, are you going to regret that you ever wrote about value possibly being good or then the follow-up post about how great value was real or not firing me after I

wrote another post about the Casa? Are you going to regret that if it dies next week? I would do it exactly the same way. I mean, I think that it would be worse if we didn't. So if we thought, oh, this is too good to be true. So reporting it, it's going to kill it. It's still going to be just a matter of time before it dies. And if we don't blog about it and talk about it repeatedly, a lot of our audience is going to miss out on this great deal. So I think we did just the right thing here. Some people have argued that there's a middle ground, that you should report something once and then shut up about it. But I also don't, at least in cases like this, I don't agree with that. I do think that these things are things that we want as many people as possible to get a chance to get a part of. And by not writing about it, it just means more people won't know about it, or at least more of our audience won't. And then if it ever blows up because some other audience finds out about it, then we've done a disservice to our audience, I think. Yeah. I mean, I think that's one of the biggest things, you know, if we don't write about

it, somebody else is going to book this and write about it and whatever blog that might be. I don't want their readers to get the good stuff and our readers miss out on the thing that we knew. And, you know, to be clear, there would be benefit to us to keeping things like that quiet. Right. I mean, I've got capital one points about a capital one card for a long time. There is part of me that would love to keep that a little my little secret and book my vacation rentals for the rest of my life. And nobody else knows about it. Of course, there's that like little greedy part of me. But that wouldn't make sense, A, because what we do is share stuff like this with people, right? And B, again, like we said, I don't want to see some other blog telling their people and then our people miss out on it. So

I definitely want our readers to know about those deals. And the fact of the matter is that these deals come around now and then, and sometimes attention kills deals. I mean, there's no doubt. I'm not arguing that this deal is going to die. The Vacasa deal is not going to last forever, I don't think. Now, we can argue about how long it's going to last. I feel like it's got a chance at living longer than some people do, because just not that many people have Wyndham points. You can only buy 45,000 a year. If you want to buy the Wyndham points, you can't buy some unlimited crazy amount of points. Only so many people have access to Capital One as it is. And then those people that have Capital One, there's a bunch of those beginners out there that probably don't even know what Wyndham Rewards is. Forget about how to book

this. So I feel like the segment of people who are able to take advantage of this is already pretty limited. So I could actually see this lasting for a while yet. But I also wouldn't be like shocked and odd if it dies three months from now, you know, right. Right. You know, I mean, alternatively, what might happen, and this be too bad, but what could happen is that they don't hire more people to help out Lizzie. And then there's a bottleneck there. And it can't really grow to the big proportions that would cause Wyndham to notice and say, oh, this is not working. We need to kill it. And so that would be, so it could live on in that sort of like hobbled state for a long, long time. And by hobbled state, I mean, if that happens,

it'll be very hard to book them because if there's only one Lizzie and a lot of people trying to do it, but at least it wouldn't be totally dead. So it would be theoretically possible. Yes, I mean, I think there's possibility that it could last. And I look at other things and, you know, when we wrote about Turkish smiles and smiles and the flights to Hawaii, there were people right away who said, oh, thanks. Great. This is going to be dead. And, you know, five, four, three, two, one. I mean, if you go back to our first post about the Turkish miles and smile sweet spot to Hawaii, there were definitely people in the comments, not a lot, but a segment of people in the comments that were essentially blaming me for the death of the, the, this great sweet spot two years ago, and it's still there, you know, like, and it might have died. There's no doubt. We talked about it

before we decided to publish it. And we, you know, we, and it might have died. There's no doubt. We talked about it before we decided to publish it. And we, you know, we wrote a post about whether or not we should have even published it because it was one of those things sort of like this, that, you know, should we have kept it quieter and just mentioned it, you know, behind closed doors and then, you know, like after an FTU or something, or, you know, like Chicago seminars in a quiet corner to somebody, Hey, by the way, you can book flights to Hawaii. But we said, no, again, same kind of thing. If we don't write about it, somebody is going to. And is there a line as to how much you can or can't write about it?

It's hard to know because I mean, we've written about the Turkish thing again and again and again over the last couple of years. And it's kind of been a pain. People have had difficulty with it. It hasn't been as easy as we had hoped. It sort of has its own built in only one Lizzie in a way. It's so hard to book them that it might as well be just one Lizzie on the other end there. That might have helped. That might have helped. But to me, as long as these things are in some way public or official from,

you know, that they're fair game to totally report without worry. So for example, the Wyndham-Vacasa thing, that was in press releases. Like, I mean, the fact that, you know, I think as far as I know, we were the only blog to at least initially pick up on what a great deal it was. That's just because we were paying more attention to it, but it's public. There's nothing, there's nothing to hide there. Right. And you know, that, that reminds, I'm sorry, go ahead. Keep going. No, no. Then I was just going to go on. Turkish is, is, you know, less obviously public, but it's still public. It was it was information on their website about how these how these awards work.

Right. Right. So it's not like we're revealing some deep, dark secret with these kind of things. There are ones where maybe we would or what. And to be clear about like the Turkish examples are a really good one, because at the time it was public because it was there on the award chart. The domestic flights were 15000 points round trip. So public knowledge anybody could have seen. Funny enough, today they don't have that part of the award chart anymore. So it actually isn't. So if we discovered it today, maybe it would have been a different story because it's not a spot that's on the award chart. It's not public information. Now you could search it on the website and see it. So maybe we still would have published it. I'm not, I can't say that we wouldn't, but, but I don't know, it would have been a different story if

it had been a secret sweet spot that nobody knew about that wasn't actually public. Maybe we would have at least reconsidered it. I don't know. But I think back to other deals, like, you know, when you said it's public information, I think back to BJ's Wholesale a few years ago, I had Visa gift cards and it said right on the rack, zero dollars for the activation fee. And, you know, we debated, should we publish it or not, the zero dollar activation fee? Because we'd heard about it. And then my wife went into the store, took a picture of the rack and Greg was like, oh, I mean, it says zero dollars on the rack. I mean, how much more public can you get than it says zero dollar activation fee right there on the rack. And Greg was like, Oh, I mean, it says $0 on the rack. I mean, how much more public can you get? And it says $0 activation fee right there on the rack. I mean, so, so, so it didn't make

sense to hide that when it was clearly public information. Right, right. Where it gets gray is, is when it says $4.95 or $5.95 on the rack, but it rings up at zero. And then it's like, right, what's happening here? Is this, you know, is this something that we should publish? And then we have debates about that, depending on the situation. And we do. And there are things like that, that we don't write about that, because they aren't public knowledge or something that is out there in Iraq or published somewhere, or something that somebody shared with in Iraq or published somewhere or something that somebody shared with us privately and said, hey, listen, don't tell people about this, but blah,

blah, blah. So, I mean, there are those types of things out there also. But when it's something that came out in a press release or something that's on an award chart, it just doesn't make sense to me to hide those things. And a lot of those things last longer than we expect them to. A lot of over the years, ANA, the first class thing with Virgin Atlantic points, Simon thousand dollar gift cards. I remember when we first wrote about those,

people said, oh, you're not going to be able to use any cards anymore. They're going to stop this and that. And we could debate that a little because you can turn on the Amex points on those anymore. And they became hard to use

eventually in stores. So maybe maybe that's our fault. I don't know. But on the flip side, if they were going to offer that publicly, and they were going to offer that information to various blogs, what kind of a disservice would we be doing to our readers if we didn't report it? Exactly. That was a no-brainer to report that. I believe there's other things that when I look back in time that we didn't report. And one that comes to my mind is that Citibank used to let people fund a new bank account with a credit card for up to $100,000. And back then you would earn points on your credit card for doing it. There was no fee for doing that. And so it was mentioned in some blogs, but it wasn't, it wasn't like why widely reported

for a while. And then it started to show up on more and more blogs. We continue to not report it because I felt like it was something that certainly would die as soon as it was like widely reported. And it did, you know, as soon as it made its way into like the headline of a major blog or two, it died pretty quickly after that. And I don't know that we made the right decision there to not report it because as I think about it, it wasn't a loophole. This was just Citibank's policy for funding new bank accounts.

So, you know, going back, I'm thinking that, you know, our readers missed out basically because I didn't publish it and probably should have. And then, yes, would have gotten accused of killing it. Well, and in that case, you may have been, may have been guilty of killing it, but, but then it becomes a question of, okay, so do we wait and let somebody else kill it and their readers all get to take advantage before it's dead? Or do we kill it and let our readers at least get in while the getting's good, so to speak, you know? And, and,

and that's kind of where I am on the Vicasa thing. I, on the thing. You know, I think it's definitely possible it could die, but I don't want our readers to miss out on that. Like, if you can book it now, get in now while you can, because it may not be around forever. And we don't say that about everything. I mean, there are things, there are deals that we're like, ah, you know, if you, if this is going to work for you, like we talked about buying the Wyndham points a few minutes ago, you got to use for right now. Great. You know, buy them. If you don't have a use for them right now, you probably shouldn't buy them. The Vicasa thing is one of those things that it's like, you know, this you really need to look at because it's not going to be around forever and you should take advantage of it while you can. Right. So, okay. So we've talked about things where,

where it's the official company policy to provide whatever the benefit is that we're talking about. What about when it's not? What about when it's a loophole that, that we're taking advantage of? Like maybe, I don't know, Marriott and their 10, their 10 nights for the meetings that they used to offer. And it was like, I guess that was in the policy too. I mean, that's a bad. Well, no, that's actually a good example because in their terms and conditions at the time, so just to step back a second, Marriott used to give, if you booked a meeting with them,

they would give you 10 elite nights. Well, you had to make sure it was in the contract and stuff, but anyway, you get 10 elite nights. And so some people were booking, would work with a hotel and say, I just need a half hour meeting, you know, and they pay them like 30 bucks or something and they get 10 elite nights for that. And so you can rack up a lot of elite nights that way pretty cheaply, get to high level elite status, get to lifetime elite status, all that kind of good stuff. And pretty soon, if I remember right, there was a time where we were reporting on,

when we first started reporting on shortcuts to Marriott elite status, we had that in there as one of the key ways of, one of the key shortcuts. And pretty soon after we published that, Marriott actually did kill that. I think that's more likely a timing thing because they killed it at the end of a calendar year. So I think they had planned to say, you know, January 1st or whatever it was forward. This won't happen anymore. But nevertheless, we could say maybe our post killed it. But in that case, it was a loophole. And the reason I'm saying that is because in the terms, it said you had to have, I can't remember the details, but a certain number of rooms booked at the hotel. Not just meeting rooms, but actual rooms in order for it to count to get those elite nights.

So what was happening in reality is you didn't need those rooms in order to get the elite knights. And so it was a loophole. We did report it. Was that right or wrong? I don't know that there's a definitive answer about that. Oh, come on, Greg, you killed it. Own up to it. So let's say I did. Let's pretend we somehow know that I did. Was that bad because I killed a loophole that people were in the know, that people in the know were taking advantage of? Or was it good because a lot of our readers got to use that loophole before it died? I mean, it's tough. It's a very difficult knife edge to balance upon because I definitely, I didn't get into this because I want to kill

deals. I enjoy deals. I like deals. So I want to be able to take advantage of them. I didn't get into writing about deals so that I could try to kill as many as possible. And, and, you know, I recognize that there are times also when I wrote about things in ways that were probably too obvious, you know, there was the, uh, the jet blue thing a while back when you, you get the personal and the business card and stack rebates and get a bunch of points back. And some people were very unhappy that I had written about that because they thought I was going to kill it. And it did die eventually, not super close to when I wrote about it, but not super long after either. So I recognize that publicizing that didn't help probably the longevity of it, whether or not Barclays read my post and decided to change something. I don't know, but it certainly obviously didn't make it

last longer than it would have on its own. So I can recognize that. And I can recognize the person who would be frustrated, who had been booking meetings for years and earning their elite status, or who had been stacking those JetBlue discounts for years and says, ah, these darn bloggers did it again. They killed my deal. But I think a lot of those types of things were things that were likely to die eventually. So when I look at something that there are some things that have lasted for years and years that we haven't written about, you know, we kind of mentioned a minute ago that will probably continue to last without attention. Those things were things that eventually they were going to figure out. Right.

I mean, and say, ah, we don't really want this anymore. So, and a lot of those things were kind of juicy in the sense that like the Marriott meeting things and be able to pick up lifetime status from booking a bunch of cheap meetings. That was something that was going to continue to get, oh, hey, book meetings and blah, blah, blah. It was going to continue to get passed around and around and around the grape vine until it died eventually anyway. So I'm glad that frequent miler readers were able to book that. and to be fair it was reported in other blogs for us it wasn't like we

were the first to release that but but it's certainly possible that we contribute to killing it i don't you know uh i don't know i and there are other things that don't necessarily come to mind right now where it it almost seemed like we definitely killed it. We would write about something and then, you know, very short time later, we'd hear that it was killed. Was it a coincidence? We'll never know for sure. But a lot of times those things happen so fast that I feel like it couldn't possibly have been that somebody made a decision fast enough and implemented a solution fast enough to have been a response to our, even though it seems like,

oh yeah, you guys wrote about that two weeks ago. Now they killed it. I just don't believe that executives at the top heard about it and made the decision that quickly. Actually, one example is that when I used Virgin Atlantic miles to go to Necker Island, when I got back, I used Virgin Atlantic miles to go to Necker Island. When I got back, it was something like the day I got back or, you know, it was right after I got back.

Virgin Atlantic changed the rules to where you had to have elite status with Virgin Atlantic to be able to book that week on Necker Island. And so people would say, I see it was your fault richard branson did choke you but you know that's that's kind of likely that's kind of silly you know program changes like that uh generally take a while and uh the chance that they did it so fast that, and, and why, like, there's no, there's no good explanation for why they would have my presence there would have would have triggered that either. So anyway, it was incriminating in the immediate time, you know, sequence, though, it was like, hey, I'm at Nectar Island. And then all of a sudden, hey, the rules have changed. It's harder to go there now. You can't come to now.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, and so that's always a fine line. And so, you know, we do, there are things we talk about that we don't publish. There are things that we talk about and we ultimately decide to publish. We do talk about things where we feel like there's a question though. I mean, usually we will trade some emails back and forth and discuss it. If we feel like, should we publish

this? Should we not publish this? In fact, just today, there was something that we were like, oh, we have one data point. We're not really sure. Should we? Should we not? Blah, blah, blah. And we talk about that kind of stuff a lot. So we do usually at least think about it a little bit before we publish a post. Now, that's not to say there aren't times where we won't realize that we're writing about something that is more fragile than we had expected. But generally speaking, we try to consider it like, like Greg said, we try to say, okay, well, is it going to die anyway? And if it is, and do we want to make sure that our our readers get a chance to get in on it before it's done? Or is it likely to continue to persist? And we're likely to hurt people who are able to take

advantage of it by publishing it? I mean, we're never aiming to hurt anybody. So we don't intentionally publish about the Marriott meeting trick or the Vacasa thing in order to hurt somebody. But the Vacasa thing is a great example of who knew about that before a few weeks ago. And we certainly didn't mean to hurt Lizzie. I'm sorry that she's overworked. Be nice to Lizzie, guys. Be nice, all right?

And a few of you think that we're joking about Lizzie being the only person, but she's literally the only person that's responded to our emails or the people that we know that have communicated. So I really think there might be one person. Yeah. Poor Lizzie.

Unless they have a hiring policy and you have to be named Lizzie. It's possible. It's got to be Lizzie. I'll throw one more thing out there, which is that when we're at in-person events, which is hard to imagine these days, but I think it'll happen again. We tend to be looser about what we'll talk about. And on our Frequent Miler, Ask Us Anything live on YouTube series, which again is every other Tuesday, we're also a bit looser there.

It's sort of a fine line. Like there may be things that I would talk about in person that I wouldn't talk about there, but there's certainly things that we talk about on there that we wouldn't write about in the, in the post or put somewhere that is easily like indexable that, um, people could be, you know, sending around a, uh, Hey, did you see this? And linking back to us easily. So those things we, you know, if there's something sensitive in there, we're not going to put in in writing uh and so it's you know something good

in this show too in this show too you know we obviously also talked about some of those things in this show too so it's a mix and depending on the type of audience and the type of situation and the type of deal the things that we'll talk about there are certainly things we leave in between the lines sometimes and so sometimes we'll fill in that some of the space between the lines at an in-person event or, or even sometimes on this show, depending on the scenario. In fact, this just came up with somebody who wrote the other day who had said that they don't prefer listening to podcasts or watching podcasts. They'd rather get everything in writing. And so, you know, there's some topics that either maybe it would be too fragile if, if they were mass published that we might discuss now and

then, and or some things that just don't lend themselves as well to the written form where it's like too much explanation, kind of hard, and it's easier in conversation to talk about than it is in a written post. So there are times when those types of things come out in these conversations. So, you know, we do think about it anyway. I don't think we're evil bloggers that kill deals, but I'm sure that there are some people that think otherwise sometimes. And I'm sure we do kill deals, but, but, but we're, we think that most of the time we're, we're doing it in, uh, in our audience's best interests because we're reporting about a good thing and that might cause it to go away. But that's just the nature of the beast. Well, and I think back to earlier this week,

Brex had that deal with, if you missed it, sorry, but Brex had that deal with PayPal where you could get the PayPal integration. And then we heard that you could sign up for a PayPal account that didn't cost anything to just do online invoicing and get 100,000 Brex points, which points haven't posted yet. So possible that something was wrong and, and, you know, some, somewhere

the wires got crossed, but it seemed like basically a really easy thousand dollars or a hundred thousand airline miles for just doing something that didn't cost you anything. And so other blogs reported on it. So we reported on it. I did it. And I told my wife about it. She wasn't home when I was writing about it, but I wrote about it. I sent it to a friend. I said, Hey, if you haven't done this yet, do it right now, drop whatever it is you're doing and do it right now. Cause I don't know how long it'll last. And I want you to get in on it. Told my wife about it when she got home. And I said, so tomorrow morning, we're going to take care of this. Wouldn't you know it tomorrow morning, the next day it died before she got a chance to do it.

So, I mean, if I, writing about it, probably contributed to it. Yeah, not only that, I think I still have a reminder on my calendar for tomorrow to do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So maybe writing about that cost us a couple grand, right?

Yeah, thanks a lot, Nick. Yeah, yeah. Right, right. So we do get burned by that sometimes too. That's what I'm saying. You know, it happens to all of us, but yeah. What are you going to do? What are you going to do? I hope some readers got, I know some readers signed up. And so I'm happy that a bunch of people were like, Oh wow. I signed up and hopefully the points come through for everybody. And you know, a month from now, everybody's like, yes, the easiest

a hundred thousand airline miles I ever got. Thank you. And it's great hearing that too. And you know, the Turkish thing, whenever it comes up, and it comes up how hard it is to book, I always think, you know, for some people in some situations it is, but there are lots of people also who have booked it successfully. Sure. Lots of messages we've gotten from people have said, Oh, my goodness, thank you. My family of four went to Hawaii for like 60,000 points, and it was amazing, blah, blah, blah. So, you know, we've heard a lot of those stories, too. And it's nice to you know, it's nice a lot of those stories too. And that's nice too. You know, it's nice knowing that some of those things that we've written about have worked out pretty well for readers.

Absolutely. It's awesome. Okay. All right. So that brings us to the post roast, I think. It does. What do you have for me? You know, you did a great job this week, right?

I don't actually have a roast for you. I mean, I wrote about Delta Elite status again, and I was like, Delta Elite status great job this week, Greg. I don't actually have a roast for you. Yeah. I mean, I wrote about Delta elite status again and I was like Delta elite status, but okay. All right. In the, in the comments of my capital one card, uh, post, uh, people wrote served up on a platter. No, you're right. Let me back up. You're, you're totally right. Greg wrote a post this week about the capital one ultimate card and and his dream capital one card that could replace all of the other cards by just giving him a few decent bonus categories and a couple of good benefits except he asked for like the moon on a credit card right i

mean like what were you thinking you asked for like you know 10x this and 5x that and all these lounge accesses and you want to replace hyatt you want 10 X this and five X that, and then all these lounge accesses and you want to replace Hyatt and you want to replace this and that and get ANA as a transfer partner. Like, come on, you're like pie in the sky here. There's no way it's like $2,000 worth of benefit. At least one person said they'd have to charge $2,000 a year and I'd still be willing to pay it. And they'd still lose money on it. At least one person said that in the comments, right? So what were you thinking, Greg? For sure. So yeah, I wasn't trying in that post to design a realistic card. I was trying to say, if they could do this, if they could add all these things,

this is what it would take to get me to just be willing to put away all the other cards in my wallet and just use this one. It is a dream scenario, and I recognize that. On the other hand, a lot of the things that sounded way too good to be true are things that the other companies are already providing on their cards and somehow getting away with it. And, and so, yes, you know, this is different in that it's all on one card. So, so all that burden goes to one thing, but you know, if you had a high enough annual fee, maybe it'd be possible. I don't know. You could certainly look at the Chase Sapphire Reserve, for example, and say, well, how could they possibly get away with giving 3X for all travel and dining and letting you pay yourself back at 1.5 cents because that's basically giving away

five and a half cents for all that spend and they don't get anywhere near that much. You could have arguments like that or the Amex gold card. How could they get away with giving Forex for US supermarkets and dining, Forex dining everywhere? So anyway, somehow they do it. But anyway, I published another post that was like, all right, that's unrealistic. How about these things? Even what I published there maybe is unrealistic. I'm just, I, I, here's the thing. I was torn between putting one out that was really realistic and putting one out that might encourage Capital One to go a little further than they might otherwise plan to. No, I think that was a brilliant play. That was great. It was a great idea. Right. Right. Like we said before, they

are paying attention. Like they are, you know, and it's not like frequent miler has all of the influence of capital one don't get me wrong but they are reading posts clearly like they are paying attention yeah if i put out a post saying all you'd have to do is take the venture rewards card and add the you know uh add ana as a transfer partner and then you'd have a competitor to Sapphire Reserve and MX Platinum. That's not helpful. Right, right. You got to set the bar up here, right? I mean, anybody that's ever raised a child knows you need to set the bar much higher than you expected, right? Right, right. So, you know, I think that they could do something less than what I reported,

and we'd still be excited about it. But, you know, I am that, that they could do something less than what I reported and we'd still be excited about it, but you know, I am at least hoping I'm really, really hoping for that 1.5 hotel eraser idea. 1.5 cents per point when you have hotel charges to be able to race those. like chase sapphire reserves uh ability to pay yourself back right now for like dining and um grocery uh and home improvement i think it i think it was this other category yeah until the and and uh so it's it's it really exactly like that except it's a fixed category hotels and that's what i want because then then we can, you can use that card and get great value paying for it. Cause hopefully you get a, you get some sort of multiplier in earnings, like three X or four X for, for paying for hotels. But then the ability even better to be able to raise those charges means that you can be a free agent, you know, book, however you want with whatever chain or non-chain you want

and still get great value from your points. I think it would be a terrific, it would be a game changer, I think. Although, Chase could do that too. They could say our point eraser, our pay yourself back, our new category is hotels, or they could do it in veterans.

They all travel, but I almost don't want to dream of that because that's just, that would be so awesome. And anyway. You know, all right. So I roast you about it because I thought it was a good topic once you lit the light bulb in my mind. But the truth is, I don't know if it was you or somebody else that responded that

basically said, I think it was you that basically said, Chase offers all this stuff on fee free cards, basically, right? I mean, you just mentioned the Sapphire Reserve. But not only that, you could have the Sapphire Reserve, and you can have the no fee in cash to get five x of your office supply stores and the no fee, Freedom Unlimited to get three x restaurants and threeX drugstore. And so like you could get basically all those multipliers for the same price that you were talking about with Capital One. It's just a matter of putting them all into one card. And so at some level, what's the difference? Obviously, the difference is you got to get the multiple products. So there's at least a little barrier there that's going to stop people from doing it. But if Capital One really just wants

to be a one card solution, obviously the math works out to be able to offer that. Yeah. The thing is whether or not the math works out, I think that that ought to be their strategy that, you know, we've said time and again, the Capital One Venture card is great for those who want just one card that's rewarding overall. Well, if they're going to come out with an ultra premium card, a 450 and up type of price tag, they should keep to that strategy. They should have the one card that just knocks it out of the park. And they should not do what they originally planned or originally leaked, made probably on purpose, where it was going to earn only one X on all of their spend. That's crazy because that would mean, oh, I have to keep also the venture card in order to have a good everywhere else card. No, don't do that.

No, I agree. Actually, I think that they're kind of likely to do something more like that, where the ultra premium is a one and only card. I, you know, I think capital one is listening and they're doing a good job of differentiating themselves. I said this before, they're picking up like the best transfer partner from city and the best transfer partner from this one and that one, maybe not the very best in all cases, but it's a mixture where they've got, you know, like pieces of everybody's partners and they got this one card to rule them

all kind of a thing going on. I think that they are trying to be different. And to be clear in some cases, they don't have a choice. Like they, they probably would love to get Hyatt, but they're not going to cause Chase has an exclusive with them. Same with United. And so there's a lot of cases where there's exclusives and that's why that point eraser idea, it gets around that. It says, well, you can still book Hyatt. You just book it with cash and so on. So anyway,

to be clear when i said the math works out it's not that they're making more money on the transactions and the points are worth obviously the point that any point bonuses category bonuses in general are loss leaders you know they're they're hoping to make back their money somewhere else right right they make it back in volume right exactly so all right so So that was post-roast, right? That was post-roast, except we still have your post-roast or my post-roast of your post. The host post-roast. You wrote a post, what's the best card combination a Benjamin can buy? So if you're only paying a hundred bucks a year on credit credit card annual fees all together what's the best combination of cards and i'm gonna roast two sections of that post so one is the chase section yeah you're right

i know what he's gonna say you're right i was really surprised that nick showed the sapphire preferred is the 195 card in that collection instead of the Inc. Business Preferred, which the main difference being Inc. Business Preferred gets 3X for travel instead of 2X. But you already said I was right. Nope. Can't argue there. You're right. It should have been the ink business preferred. Agreed. So we'll move on. Capital One. Capital One. In the Capital One grouping, you added the Wyndham cart. I did.

And you did that because you're so excited about this Vacasa vacation rental thing, which you know we're going to kill any day now. Any day now. Any day now. Any day now. I don't know if it's any day. So what are you thinking of encouraging people to get a Wyndham card to supplement their Capital One cards? And you know that the only good use of Wyndham points is about to die. I mean, if you're looking at the best thing you can buy right now at this slice in time, which is the best that we can do

is work on the current slice of time. I think that Wyndham card makes sense. I said the no fee Wyndham card in the post because I was trying to go for a just single $95 fee to make it something that's really manageable and easy for somebody who's like, I don't want to pay $2,000 a year in annual. It's ridiculous. So really what you should get is the business version of the Wyndham card. I mean, they aren't saying to exit the gas station. You should be paying for that card because that card is a much better card. But either way, I think filling out your Capital One strategy with a Wyndham card, I think that makes a lot of sense

right now. In the current environment, vacation rentals are hot. A lot of people are going to be happier going to vacation rentals where they feel like they're a little more separated for a bit, probably still for a while. I imagine the Vacasa deal is just outstanding. I spent some time this week looking at vacation rentals, like paid vacation rentals through Airbnb and Verbo and stuff like that. And I was like, wow, this, this Vacasa thing is terrific. It's just not available where I need it to be available. And I was like, man, this is such a great deal. And it's not available and not the right situation, even if it was available, I guess.

But it's a great deal. And I think that collecting as many of those points to use now as you can is good. But you're right, long-term. And I did kind of also frame it as a long-term earning thing. Long-term, I guess you probably wouldn't want the window card. we don't know wait you never know what's going on with windham uh they they seem to change their program once a year or something like that yeah we don't know changes regularly so it could get better it could get worse we don't know we don't know actually that the the windham

the no fee windham card is is one of the the cards that can power up your points because it has that 10% not rebate, but discount, which is even better than a rebate. So just by having the card, you don't even have to carry it around with you just by having it. If you book Wyndham, book Vacasa Vacation Rentals, you're getting 10% off the points price, which is pretty good. So that makes sure, if that's how you're going to use your Cabo One miles, it makes your Cabo One miles more valuable because you can get awards for less. So I don't entirely disagree with it, but I thought it was funny since the topic of our conversation today

was killing deals. Kind of, yes, it is. All right, so anyway, so get yourself a Wyndham card if you want to be able to do that so that's that's my thought there all right my friends that brings us to the question of the week and the question of the week this week Greg is a question that nobody can really answer but I want everybody to think about and and so I'm hoping that everybody thinks about

this a little bit and tries to to find an answer and we'll talk about more why in a second so Maria is like a philosophy question a bit a bit a bit of a philosophy question, one that's worth a second thought, even though some people are going to say, I it's impossible. Think about it for a second. So Maria asks in our frequent miler insiders group, this was in response to a Vicasa post, but it's not really a Vicasa question. She said, question for you. We booked a trip Aaron hotel with our capital one venture card with the intention of using points accumulated at one to one to erase the purchase, essentially to erase the travel purchase. This happened prior to the news of Capital One joining the points transfer game, which can't entirely be true. I think she means before they became one to one partners with so many people.

Should we hold off on using points for this trip at the one cent each they were going to erase the trip at one cent each should we hold off given these new one-to-one transfer partners these new transfer partnerships from capital one should we keep the points or should we redeem them now at one cent each to erase the trip that we've already booked yeah Yeah. Yeah. I think that if she's not flush with Capital One Miles, like if she doesn't have more than she can use, that it's really worth thinking about keeping them for better value. We've talked about that actually many times with other transferable points currencies for like, if you think you're going to be booking, for example, an international business class trip or something along those lines, if you have some ideas for how you might want to use your transferable points

to get fantastic value, way better than one cent per point value, you should keep around that much. And I realize it's a lot of guesswork is how much you'll need, but, uh, you know, hopefully you have some idea. And I like to keep like in the neighborhood of 300,000 transferable points in each of the programs. I don't have that many capital one yet, since I just finally got a capital one card, but in each of the other programs, I have more than that. And so I would consider cashing out up to about down to about 300,000, but I certainly wouldn't go below that because I want to have enough available for opportunities that come up. And you know, when I want to travel internationally business or whatever. And so I think that that's the same here that

if, if she's interested in, if Maria is interested in using the points to great value, she wants to play the game. That's the one side of the game, right? Is, is figure out how to get the most value from your points. She wants to play that side of the game, then, then yeah, she might want to think about just paying, um, you know, not erasing those points. Yeah. You know, and it's obviously tough to answer. Cause I don't know the situation. I don't know how expensive the trip is. I don't know what the money means to Maria versus, you know, the, how, how significant it is to pay for this trip in cash and whether that puts a dent in the savings or this or that. It all depends on what the kind of sure it's very hard to answer definitively. But there was definitely a large part of me. It was like, oh, I'd rather hold those points. And and that's a

perspective I've taken on a lot of my points that I'd rather hold them for better value down the road. But just the other day, I did the bills and was looking through my points because I maintain the balances. And now I kind of put them into a spreadsheet and have a cash value. And so the cash points, the points that actually can be cashed, like Chase or Amex membership rewards, I keep in one section. And so I look at how much I could cash them out for if I needed to, if there's some catastrophic event or whatever else. Right.

And the more those points piles grow during the pandemic, and I'm not anywhere near what some people have. Sure. Some people on this podcast. I look at the pile and I'm like, you know, there's a lot of things I could do with that money. There's investments I could make. I've been investing more and more in long-term stuff.

Also, I'm splashing my toes in the cryptocurrency pool and things like that. And then real estate investments we've been interested in, investing in a home for a while. There's a lot of different things like that. And I say, these points are potentially worth a lot of cash money here. And am I crazy? And, you know, should I be using those and putting dollars and cents in the bank rather

than holding onto these points that don't appreciate in value at all? You know, and that's it's a tough one to answer. But as these programs get more and more cash like that becomes a harder and harder dynamic because the capital one thing in particular very much looks to me like buying miles at once in a mile like every point that i transferred to win recently i just transferred the points for the vacasification rental right it was definitely part of me for a minute was like okay this is 450 because i'm going to spend 450 bucks on travel at some point. This is $450 worth of money, essentially, that I could have in my pocket. I could put into an investment or I can buy Wyndham points with it because that's what it felt like I was doing when I transferred. And I decided to go

to buy it. Yeah, that was okay with me. But I feel like the game is getting more and more like, and we said this months ago, but I feel like it's getting more and more like that, especially I think as many of us haven't traveled and have accumulated more points, I feel like more of us are probably in that boat where it's like, I don't know. I mean, I, my, my inclination, Maria is to hold your points for better value, but I'm not sure that I'm right. Right. So there's that. And I'd say that the best approach is to somehow magically know exactly how many points you need to keep around as transferable currency and absolutely cash out all the rest. Because when you cash it out, you could start putting in investments that will grow as Nick said. Whereas if it's sitting around and not getting used in the point program, it's certainly not going to grow. And so that would be ideal. The reality is one, we don't know how many points we're going to use. So that's really hard.

I definitely thought I was going to use more points last year than I did. And even once things started to change last year, I thought I would use more points this year than I'm going to. Yeah. And there's an emotional side to it, sort of an irrational side to it that just sort of says, oh, I like my points. I like, you know, my points are more fun than pennies. And so, you know, I certainly, I feel that very strongly. You know, I have a hard time cashing out. I did. I cashed out quite a lot of membership rewards points this year,

but I still have a ton because Amex had so many great deals recently. And, you know, and it was hard to do, but because it was totally rational, but it was, you know, there's that's the hard part of cashing them out is like, if there's not something specific I want to buy that I'm cashing them out for, then it makes it harder for me to cash them out when I'm like, oh, but I could fly first class. I could stay at a really nice place someday down the road. But there's definitely a big part of me that's like, but I could be watching an investment balance increase if I cash those out. So it's a very difficult situation. I think a difficult question to answer. And I think it's one that people should think about because as I said before, I think, you know, it's, it is a somewhat a crazy international game to hang on to huge balances in

these various programs. So you do have to kind of try to figure out where that line is, where the, you know, the magical line that Greg's talking about in terms of how many points do I need to be comfortable? And then I should probably turn the rest into cash. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right.

Very good luck, Maria. All right. That my friends brings us to the end this week. So thank you all for being out there with us today. We enjoy having you here. If you enjoyed what we've been listening to, and you'd like to get on our email list, you want to go to frequent miler.com slash subscribe.

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