Frequent Miler on the Air - Is it worth mattress running Marriott, picking the right Hyatt milestone and more | Ep51

Episode Date: June 20, 2020

Like & subscribe! Links in the timestamps below. 3:28 Reader Feedback 5:25 What crazy thing did Citi do this week? 9:44 Why Greg wrote the Juneteenth / Black Lives Matter post and why he did it now. https://frequentmiler.boardingarea.com/hopeful-juneteenth/ 15:15 Marriott's big move: Free elite night credit https://frequentmiler.boardingarea.com/marriott-gifting-elite-night-credit-dropping-many-redemption-rates/ https://frequentmiler.boardingarea.com/which-marriott-elite-benefits-apply/ https://frequentmiler.boardingarea.com/covid-19-hotel-flexibility-policies-compared-for-future-trip-planning/ 40:25 How much are the suite night awards worth? How many points would you use to bridge the gap? (Is it worth mattress running for status or benefits?) 45:08 If you had Titanium last year, is it worth going after Titanium again for the extra choice benefit? 52:25 If you have Platinum now, how far should you go to get Titanium? 1:00:09 Hyatt Milestone benefit https://frequentmiler.boardingarea.com/which-hyatt-milestone-reward-should-i-pick/ 1:14:13 Question of the Week: Will elite status extensions count

Welcome to Frequent Miler on the Air. This week, I've been on vacation while Nick's been holding down the fort. How has it been going in Frequent Miler land, Nick? The fort is still standing, as far as I can tell. So it hasn't collapsed yet. That's good to hear. That's good to hear. It's a tough wait. It's a tough wait to hold up. Yeah, I've been finally just checked out, which is, you know, it's been a long time since any of us have been able to just get away. And then so I'm enjoying being just on vacation, finally. Yeah, I mean, it's strange, isn't it? Because I mean, for someone who usually travels quite a few times a year, it's been like, I mean, basically six months. You haven't really gone much of anywhere, right?

So, yeah, well, not not not six months because you haven't really gone much of anywhere, right? So, at least. Yeah, well, not six months because I got out in end of February. So, it hasn't been, what is that, March, April, May, June? So, about four months, yeah. Four months. I mean, still, that's a pretty long time for it. It's really long for us, yeah. That's very unusual.

Feels that way. Yeah, yeah. So, we're at the Inn at Bay Harbor, which, which has been delightful. Amazing sunsets every single night. The weather has been perfect up here in Northern Michigan. And, uh, so, you know, enjoying some of the pictures that you posted, it looks gorgeous. Yeah, it really, it really is. And so it's... If someone showed me those pictures and they were like, take a guess as to where this is,

Northern Michigan just wouldn't be on my list of guesses, I don't think. And that's against Northern Michigan. I don't know Northern Michigan very well. It's surprising because I don't know it very well. Right, right. Don't tell anyone because it's a great secret that we need to you know just keep

between ourselves because it really is northern michigan's beautiful and not crowded and that combination is really fantastic and yeah and lake michigan in many ways it's as good as an ocean or better because there are far fewer sharks or jellyfish or other hazards of the sea. Yeah. So safer in many ways right now. Right, right. Although not for ships captains, I think, because there have been lots of shipwrecks in northern Michigan. So I'll make sure not to captain my ship up that way. The wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald.

Do you remember that old song? I don't remember that old song. Okay. Well, there's an old song about a shipwreck and that happened somewhere up here in Northern Michigan. There you go. See, I mean, everybody's got a little something about their state.

I could sing you something about 15 miles on the Erie Canal, but I won't. Oh, do that. Oh, come on. I'll pass on that about 15 miles on the Erie canal, but I won't do that. I'll pass on that. Just sing, just sing two or three miles. That's as much as you get guys got to pay for more than that for the cost of admission here. That's all you get for free. All right. We're not, yeah, I guess we're, we're not charging enough to, uh, get you to sing here. Is that what's going on? Right, right. Those tickets will be much more expensive. So what if we double the podcast fee?

You know, if we double the podcast fee, I'll consider it. I'll think about that. So double or nothing or double or nothing or whatever that works out to be. We'll take it to our finance guys and see what they come up with. And gals.

I look forward to hearing it. So, so do we have any feedback this week? Yeah, because I'm on vacation, I'm taking easy on both of us with feedback. So I opened up Apple Podcasts to see if there are any recent reviews. And there was one from, I think, about a month ago that we haven't covered before. And it was a really nice great review so there's really not much to say about it but I I just took out one little piece of it from Zeus uh 1990 I think it says um thanks to their blog and podcast I am able to take my family on vacations for almost free.

So there was a lot of complimentary stuff in there about how good our podcast was, but I just wanted to get to the sort of heart of it, which is really, it's always gratifying to hear that people not only are enjoying it, but that they're getting really solid value out of our website and our podcast and everything. For sure. For sure. It is. It is great to hear that because, you know, we enjoy what we're doing. So that's great. It's always nice when you enjoy what you're doing. And then when other people enjoy it too, I mean, my goodness, like how fortunate do you end up feeling for that? So that's great. I love hearing those stories. And it's always nice when we're at like an event and somebody comes up and mentions the trips that they've taken and that sort of thing. It's exciting to hear that, you know, working online is fun, but kind of, you

know, it goes back to posts that you wrote about making it through the whole COVID time period. Working online is great in many ways, but one of the ways where it's lacking sometimes is that human interaction. So it's nice to get that every now and then from someone who says, hey, you know, I found some value in what you did. So that's great. Absolutely. Absolutely. So thank you, Zeus. And I'm glad that we provide enough value that's worth coming down from Mount Olympus or wherever it is you live and taking some vacations. Come see us again soon. Very good. So all right, so reader feedback out of the way. The next thing we have to talk about is what crazy thing did Citi do this week?

Indeed. Indeed. So they've been listening to us, haven't they? They have. They're listening to the pod. They're fans. I hear they're big fans. The customer service department particularly is big.

They're like, you know, the bosses don't tell us anything. So they become big fans of Frequent Miler for informing them and letting them know what's going on. I don't think there's any other way to interpret what happened this week. So just last week, we talked about how it was crazy that city has added the grocery bonus category to the premier card early. They were scheduled to do it in August and they added it at the beginning of this month, but they didn't tell anybody except for the bloggers. They sent, they sent them, you know, marketing message from the marketing team to the bloggers and didn't send anything to

the cardholders, but they were listening because this week. They did. They finally sent an email out to all of their premier customers. But it's not only that, we talked also about the prestige cards benefits, COVID related benefits, and they hadn't sent out any information about that, except to the bloggers. We kind of teased them about that a couple of weeks in a row, I think. Right, we did. We did. So finally, the information-

So they finally got the message and sent those emails out as well. So now it's finally official what has been true for a while. Right, right. Those expanded benefits. Hopefully, they also sent those emails to the customer service representative. So when people call the customer service representatives know also, but you know, it's a crapshoot. I think that's very unlikely. I imagine it is. They're like staggering this. We're going to tell just this group of people

and see how many people go to the grocery store. So I don't know. I mean, you know, we did, I guess we did recommend on this podcast that they send that information to both, but we did. So I guess there's a chance, given that we suggested it. And like clockwork, it came out via email. So, and I want to mention along with this, that not only do they finally let everybody know, they also added those bonus points in, in a way that's really confusing. So if you're looking at your account, if you've been spending on the premier, it kind of looks like you got one X, but then there's a separate bonus category. It's like promotional bonus. That's where the other two X is. And so you really, if you pull it up on the app, it's the easiest way to find it. And you got to go into your, now I just forgot

it's a, it's in the setting somewhere. And Now I just forgot what the title of the section is. But there's a section where you'll see an amount of 1X spend. And then there's another area that says promotional bonus. And so it doesn't break it all out in a way that makes it clearly grocery. Whereas other bonus categories like gas, say 3X gas or something like that. The grocery doesn't say that yet. I assume that come August, August 23rd, probably grocery will be in there as a bonus category like gases and restaurants as well.

But right now it's just posting in this promotional bonus area. So if you're a little confused. Well, that kind of makes sense, right? Makes sense, yeah. Well, it makes sense because they're doing something different from what was planned. And so probably the easiest way to do it

is as a promotion rather than changing the regular thing. So, so it's a little confusing still, but that, that also fits because it's city. So, uh, so, but either way, I mean, do you see it when, when you're looking line by line, do you see the, um, extra points right next to your thing or you don't? Yeah. When you look line by line, like a hundred dollar charge, would you, as a grocery, would you see 300 points for that? You do, I believe I got to pull mine charge at a grocery, would you see 300 points for that? You do, I believe. I got to pull mine back up.

But yeah, you do. I think that's what matters the most. Yeah, yeah. So you will see it, but it's just the way it's broken out. If you start to look at the way your points are broken out. We had one reader who reached out

because he got confused because he had another spending bonus and all the points posted in one lump in the promotional section. And so it wasn't clear to him that he had gotten three X from the grocery spend. So versus gotten some other piece from some other promotion. So especially if you're signed up for other spending promotions, I think it can be particularly confusing because they

might post those along with your grocery transaction. And then, then you don't know how many points you got unless you really start taking out the pencil and doing the math. So not, not super intuitive super intuitive is my point. No, no, no. Which, no, that's the way Citi goes. So that was the crazy thing. Thank you, Citi, for doing something interesting this week. Right. So, I mean, we're, you know, ribbing them a bit for being crazy,

but really it makes sense to finally have done that. Thanks, Citi. It does. Okay. So more serious matter. So the Black Lives Matter post that I published on Friday. as FrequentMiler to say anything about this situation, the George Floyd murder, and everything that followed that. And so I just wanted to take a second to kind of explain not not why i posted what i did i think that should be clear from the post itself so if you haven't read it please do but see the link in the description below yeah really why it took so long for us to say anything because a lot of businesses came out pretty quickly with

state statements that i don't know i i mean, I didn't think much of those statements like, like they're like, we support blah, blah, blah, but it, they didn't seem very meaningful or well thought out to me. A lot of them, I'm not saying all of them are that way, but, but, you know we've never ever written anything about social issues political issues on the blog or in the podcast that I can remember this one from the beginning did feel different and it seemed like it's something that deserved different treatment. And, you know, honestly, for me, I was completely shell-shocked by the whole thing, like almost like numb and had real trouble figuring out my own voice on this matter. Like it matters deeply to me and I know it does to you.

And it even took me a while, like I'm very vocal in my personal social circles with my political beliefs and leanings, but it took me a while to say anything even there just because I don't know, It just hit me so hard. Finding the, finding the way to articulate what it means. Yeah. You know, something with such gravity, finding the right way to articulate it, to, to both express what it is you're thinking and to hopefully, you know, if you're going to bother expressing what you think, hopefully it's to, you know, to make that clear to other people and to

get through to someone who's reading it and thinking about it and, you know, help them think about it from your perspective. So it was definitely something I feel like I struggled with for a while too, in terms of just how to be able to say something like that. Yeah. It's not an easy topic, not an easy subject. No, it's not. And so it actually, being on vacation this past week has actually given me the time to step away from the daily, not that frequent mileage is a grind, but that's the common expression from the daily grind and think about things more broadly or differently. And so I was able to finally put my thoughts to paper, so to speak, in a way that I felt comfortable sharing with the Frequent Miler audience. And I hope everybody

took it well, but, you know, if people disagree with anything I wrote, you know, that's not something I'm particularly, you know, I'm not worried about losing readership over something like this. I, you know, I think that it's who, what I wrote is who I am. And, and so if people don't like it, that's fine. But hopefully that's not the case. And I do think that most Americans are thinking along similar lines these days. And so that gives me a lot of hope. I certainly hope so. It gives me a lot of hope.

Yeah, absolutely. I'm hopeful for that. And I feel proud to work for a person and a company that took that kind of stand in position. So thank you for writing it. And thank you for including us in it. So I definitely feel I think we can at least stand proud with where we are. You know, whether or not everybody agrees with it, I guess, is people may disagree. And, you know, I suppose they have the freedom to do that. But this was something that was important enough to us. And there's a clear enough right answer to us that it made sense for you to put together something like that. So thank you for that.

Yeah. Yeah. And thank you. And as a last note on this topic, you know, I was so proud that the entire team insisted on putting their signatures to the Black Lives Matter image. So that too meant a lot. Thank you. Okay. Let's get back to Miles' points and things like that.

Miles' points and the things that we talk about day to day, every week, week in and week out, and have some perspective on, and hopefully we can add a little value to your points and the points in your pocket. So first up this week, we had Marriott. Marriott made a big move. Big news. Big news. Big move from Marriott. Right. So while I was off sipping martinis and relaxing by the sea, what did Marietta email you about? You know, I couldn't believe it when they sent it along and I read it and said, wow, they are giving people, well, first of all, I suppose the headline that you might have seen from other blogs first, which I think was the more minor of the two stories was that they are reducing redemption levels at a number of properties by only charging off-peak rates in certain markets. They're doing that by market. So if you search in a market and

some hotels are, you know, like let's say you searched in, I don't know, in Chicago and some hotels are peak and some hotels are off-peak, well then it doesn't apply to that particular market. But if you search in Miami and everything is off-peak, they're going to be off-peak all the way through July 31st. So as long as you book by June 30th, then those markets that are all off-peak right now, all of the properties that are available for redemption will be at off-peak prices. Again, that's for stays until July 31st. That didn't particularly excite me all that much because, eh, I mean, most of us probably aren't going to be doing a ton of travel by July 31st. And the off-peak rates reflect the fact that prices are incredibly low

since nobody's traveling. So that wasn't an amazing part. Yeah. Even more just to that point. So I happen to have vacationed at a resort that's an ideal redemption for those 35k free night certs that you get with a number of credit cards. And so I quickly, upon this news, checked to see whether this resort was in one of the regions that was low or not. And I could not find the answer. You know why? Because there were no dates available. No dates available, exactly. So I'll just save everybody a little bit of trouble. Don't bother trying to find a 35 K free nights unless you're wanting to do it. Um, I think when I last looked, I think, uh, this coming week when we're releasing this podcast, there were, there were in June, this was, there were a couple of nights maybe, but that was it for the

rest of the summer as far as I could see. Yeah. I didn't even look at June. I only looked at July and I didn't want to blow up your spot as to where you were and tell everybody where you were on vacation this week. But I had seen that there were no dates in July at the end of the day, because I did check it out. I was curious. So yeah. And that wasn't the only place like that. I showed that the St. Regis Bora Bora was apparently off-peak also, except there was only one date where it was available on points for standard redemption. Yeah, I saw that in your post.

That's funny. Right, right. So, I mean, I don't know who's flying to Bora Bora for one night, but... Well, who's flying to Bora Bora this summer at all? At all. What? At all.

You'd think that if it's going to be open, that every day would be available, right? That's what I would have thought, exactly. You would think. That's why I looked there. There's something bizarre there going to be open, that every day would be available. That's what I would have thought. Exactly. That's why I looked there. I was like, oh, this would be... Yeah, you're right. You're right. There is. So anyway, take a look. If you find some place that's cheap and good for you, great. The one place where that might come in handy, and I'm going to come back to this thought in a few minutes here probably, is if you can find a Category 1 off-pe peak and you want to pick up some extra elite nights because with the fifth night free at off peak rates you're talking about 20 000 points for five nights to pick up five nights towards elite status might be worth using 20 000 points that way

so now that i kind of got that point out we should get to the meat and potatoes what i thought was exciting about the announcement this week so marriott is giving everybody 50% of the elite nights required for the status level that you achieved in 2019. So let's say that you were platinum based on your 2019 activity. So you got Marriott platinum status today because you stayed 50 nights during 2019. They're going to give you 25 nights of elite credit towards elite status this year because that's half of the 50 that's normally required. And so that's a decent, generous little bump. And then when you consider the fact that you can get up to 30 nights of elite credit from holding one consumer card and one

business card, that's the Marriott cards. You have one Marriott consumer card and one Marriott business card. You can get 30 nights of elite credit from the two cards. So you'd be at 55 nights, get yourself a choice benefit. So that seems like a pretty good deal, right? Without even staying in a hotel. That's a great deal. Right, right. Now, I've enjoyed following the comments on that post because there was a lot of confusion over what it means to have earned a certain level of status in 2019 for the year 2020. and i think the simplest way to think of it is that for most people good i'm glad you have a simple way because i don't have for most people whatever your status is now is the one you earned last year for this year and and i said for most

people because there are exceptions to that exceptions include where those who stayed at marriott's enough this year already to have achieved a level higher than where they were and those who picked up a new credit card that gave them status but i think for most people whatever you are now is is the one that it's going to be half of half of that it's it's true that's that's absolutely true for most people that's the case the folks that they don't like you said if you picked up the platinum card this year and that's what gave you marriott gold status then you're not going to get anything for that unless they coded or if you picked up but yeah right unless which is possible certainly wrong in the back end.

But theoretically, anyway, or if you picked up your second of two Marriott credit cards, like a business and a personal, and this year, again, in 2020, and that put you over the bump to hit 30 elite nights. If one of those is the case, then you wouldn't get whatever status you have now. You wouldn't get the credit for it.

But those are two pretty slim scenarios. So unless you're one of those people who picked up the platinum card in May, because there are a lot of credits on the platinum card. So if you had just picked that up in May, there's a possibility of that. Then you would not be getting any extra nights, assuming that that's where your Marriott status came from. Otherwise, if you got it from credit cards last year, you stayed in hotels last year, et cetera, you're going to get half the nights required. So if you had gold status last year, which let's say you had the platinum card last year, you had gold status. You're going to get 13 nights of elite credit this year. You could pick up 30 from credit cards and you'd be at 43

nights, seven nights short of platinum status. You're a goal or excuse me. If you're a platinum for last year, you get 25 free nights towards status. I don't want to say free nights and confuse anybody. 25 elite night credits. If you were at titanium last year, get 25 free nights towards status i don't want to say free nights and confuse anybody 25 elite night credits if you were at titanium last year they're going to give you 38 elite night credits towards this year so what do you think is that i think it's exciting do you think it's exciting why why not yeah i do i do um so for those of us who already had had high level status i'm not sure I'd call it exciting as much as like, ooh, that's really nice, right?

And the reason for that is, so those of us with titanium stats, which is the 75 night level, that's a really nice status to have. But we already have it for a whole nother year because that was one of the things they announced much earlier that they were going to extend whatever status you already got for another year. Okay. So the exciting part is really just means, a, oh, that's really nice. I get another set of choice benefits or, oh, that's really, it's kind of nice, but my titanium status is already extended. And a lot of people were in that boat where they were like, what does this matter? Status is already extended. So if you had earned platinum status from last year, titanium status from last year, you've already got that for all of next year. So you don't have to re-earn this year in order to get your status benefits. So yeah, it's not super exciting for somebody who already was titanium specifically because

there's not a lot, not far to go north of that, so to speak. I think really the group that this is most exciting for is people who had gold status because gold status isn't very, very beneficial with Marriott. Valuable. There you go. That's what I was looking for. It doesn't give you much because you 2 p.m. Checkout, I guess. Some romance. Rightaluable. There you go. That's what I was looking for. It doesn't give you much. It gives you 2 p.m. checkout, I guess.

Some room extra points. Right. Maybe if you're lucky. But there's no breakfast or anything like that for gold status. So at gold status, though, if you picked up those 13 nights, and like I said, if you have a business and a personal card, that gives you 30 nights. So you're at 43 nights.

Now, if you've had that business and personal card for a while and you got free night certificates, if you use the free night certificates from those, those nights count for status. So you could easily be at 45 nights before you've even stepped in a hotel this year. Well, presumably you'd still step in a hotel to spend those two free nights. Well, presumably you would. Presumably you would so so 45 nights without paying for a hotel stay that's true that's true okay 45 nights without paying for a night and even that's not really true because you paid something in the annual fee right so i'm surprised let's go back to the 43 nights and say and say is it worth all right so you have 40 43 easy nights it's worth

seven extra nights so so let's say you weren't planning on staying at Marriott's at all for the rest of the year. Um, that's the question, right? Is it worth, uh, and let's assume there's a category one off peak somewhere that you can get

to fairly easily. Right. So that's, that's the cheapest way, I think, to generate those seven nights, well, five of those nights, which, yeah, you already got two because we're assuming you have two certificates, right?

Make the math easy here. So it costs 20,000 points at off-peak category one to stay for five nights, and that'll give you what you need to get to platinum status so is it worth 20 000 points to have platinum status which would give you for the rest of this year and all of next year and through january and february i think of the year after that it would give you anytime you go to a Marriott, most Marriotts. Free breakfast, better upgrades.

Also, we get your choice benefits, which could be the suite upgrade certificate, suite night awards, or I'm trying to remember if there's anything else valuable in the 50-night one. I don't think there is. Yeah, it's like 40% off of a bed or a donation to UNICEF. Let's just talk about that. Nothing else. Yeah. Sweet upgrades are the,

are the one for 50 nights. Yeah. Yeah. So basically you'd be looking at getting that. And also you mentioned breakfast, but lounge access at most properties. That's very important. Not at Ritz properties,

but most other properties have a lounge to get lounge access. So yes. So let's just take let's take um the hotel that i just spent five nights at in michigan so i check in as now i'm titanium but the platinum benefits the same um check in and i was, do you want the thousand point welcome gift or free breakfast for two every day? It's criminal for them to not even ask or at least explain how absurd it would be to take a thousand points. I mean, that's worth on a good day, that's worth $10. And that you only get the 1000 points, you don't get it every day. Right? Where's the breakfast? 1000 points one time. Where's the breakfast if you pay outright for the most you can spend? The buffet is $23 a person.

And or you could buy off the menu up to $23 a person per day. So you're getting like close to $50 a day in value if you would have eaten at the hotel anyway, which it's a nice breakfast. I mean, you're here at the resort. So at the very least, it's saving you from having to drive off somewhere and get breakfast and really just enjoy more time at the resort. Eat outside with a beautiful Lake view. So yeah, it's, it's pretty big. If you are going to stay at Marriott between a thousand points and the breakfast. I was thinking about my stay at the St. Regis Bora Bora last year when I checked in and they asked if I would like to take a thousand points or two coffee mugs or breakfast for two every day. I kind of laughed and I said, I will take the breakfast. And they said, that's what most people do. But I've also had, I've actually, I had a stay at some point last year and I can't even remember which brand it was, But see, the confusing thing with Marriott is that sometimes it's breakfast

and then you also get some sort of amenity, welcome amenity. And then other places you have to choose between breakfast or welcome amenity or like courtyards, you get a $10 per person. It gets a little confusing. So we have a page that lays that all out. But at least on Wednesday last year, I checked in and the person was like, and I assume you want the points, right? And I just said, yes, assuming that I got breakfast also. And then, you know, woke up in the morning and found out. And I was like, whoa, how are you going to ask me that way? I assume you want the points, you know, and not give me the option that breakfast is a choice there. So you have to watch out for that. Check our guide before

you check it. So this doesn't usually come up, but there is a situation where taking the points makes sense. And that's when, and this has happened to me, but that's when there's a lounge that you have access to and that provides free breakfast and you're given the option of breakfast in the restaurant. So usually they don't give you both options, but in at least one hotel I've been to, I had lounge access that had free breakfast. And the welcome gift was a separate thing, a thousand points or breakfast in the restaurant. And I happen to know there that the lounge breakfast was just as good, if not better than the restaurant breakfast. So that was an easy choice, even though, uh, even though a thousand points is worth. So, so platinum. So a little bit better. Yeah. If you're going to eat in the lounge anyway, and you know, the lounge breakfast is decent. That totally makes sense. That's a smart

strategy there. So platinum status, totally think it's worth it. 4pm checkout also, we didn't mention, but that's another benefit. And of course, there's the various other little things you might get upgraded, you might be able to use those sweet night awards. It's worth mentioning that the sweet night awards are not necessarily something worth going for platinum status for on their own. If you're not familiar with the way Marriott does that those sweet night awards, you apply them to your stay. You need to have one to cover every single night of your stay. So if you're staying for six nights and you only have five suite night awards, you can't use them.

If you're staying for four nights, you could use four of them if you want. The way they work with Marriott is they only start to search for availability like five days before you check in. So it's not confirmed at booking like it is with Hyatt, for instance. So it's very much a crapshoot as to whether or not you'll actually get the suite upgrade when you check in. And now with the fact that they've made it super easy to get status for next year for everybody, I mean, they've extended it already for free. Now they're making it easier to get to platinum or titanium.

I think it's going to be pretty hard to use those next year. So I wouldn't go after platinum just for the Suite Night Awards, but certainly for the breakfast and the lounge access and the 4pm checkout, the whole like enchilada there, I think it's worth 20,000 points. What would, what would you pay in points or, or I'm not really sure how to say this, but to get, so let's say you already have platinum, but, um, you know, you only have one credit card or whatever it is, for whatever reason, you're not going to be at 50 nights. How many nights should someone kind of manufacture through a free night,

using points to say a free night or whatever? How far would you go to get that choice benefit? Well, to get the first choice benefit, the five sweet nine awards, I mean, I guess what you have to do, and I'm answering this because I have a feeling that this is the answer that you were going to give. So I think the way you would think about it, and I can't really disagree with the logic, is how many points per night would you be willing to spend on the upgrade if you were going to be able to successfully use those upgrades? But then you have to discount that sum to account for the fact that you may not actually get to use them.

You may end up getting through the year without them successfully clearing. So, you know, when I look at it that way, say, okay, five nights, 20,000 points, 4,000 points a night for a suite, that seems like a decent deal. So I guess maybe the 20,000 is justifiable for the suite. That seems like a decent deal. So I guess maybe the $20,000 is justifiable for the suite night awards, but then you have to recognize or at least be able to accept the fact that maybe you're throwing those away. Now, if we value those points even at half a cent each, that's $100. So it's a $100 gamble. If you would put $100 on a hand of blackjack, then it's worth $100 probably. If you would not do that, I don't know.

I mean, I'm not sure that it's a smart. I'm going to raise another issue with the Suite Upgrade Awards, which I've encountered recently. They don't work at all Marriott properties. So Ritz properties completely don't allow them. But then I found like even there are certain individual properties that just say on our website like we don't accept sweet night awards we don't do them what yeah what does that mean why not how is that right right yes no it's totally true and in fact the saint regis that i mentioned and borobora you can't use them there and i know that i've run into

other properties where you can't use them and. And I know that I've run into other properties where you can't use them. And obviously if you're staying at like a Fairfield Inn, there might just not be another upgraded room. Although funny enough, I have seen them available to use a Fairfield Inn before, but I've had a number of reservations because I've had my Sweet Night Awards since, you know, whenever last year I had a number of reservations where it has shown that it was not available to be applied to various properties. So it's not just like one or two or only the super high-end places. There are other spots where you just can't use them. And so for those who might not be familiar, I realize we didn't give the basics of this. When you get to 50 nights, you get a choice benefit.

You get to choose one of these benefits. The benefit most of us take are these five suite night awards, which mean you can upgrade up to five nights. You can sort of request an upgrade for up to five nights. And it's complicated to use because you just heard that it's not available at all properties. But also, if you have a seven night stay, they won't let you apply it to five of those nights. You'd actually have to book two separate stays, a five-night and a two-night, and apply it to the five-night to make that even possible. And they don't clear them until they start to clear them five days before your stay.

So you might book a stay a year in advance and you won't know whether you're going to get that suite upgrade until at best five days before it might be closer to right up until the day before or something. So there's a lot of issues with how it works. I will say though, I don't want to say they're worthless, though, because I've had some good luck using them where straight up got the upgrades and the upgrades were really valuable. I also had a case.

Yeah, I mean, you got the chambers weighing at the same pancreas. I did, I did. Now at that same hotel, same pancreas, there was another time where the upgrade did not clear. But upon checking in, same hotel, same pancreas. There was another time where the upgrade did not clear, but, uh, I, you know, went upon checking in or actually before checking in, I think I talked to the, I emailed the concierge people about it and they said they would check every day

because I had the suite upgrade. They said they would check every day to see if they could upgrade us. And I didn't really believe it, but, you know, that they really would. But they did. And I don't remember. Let's say it was. Like after you checked in at this point. So, yeah. So I think we spent maybe one or two nights, I think two nights in a regular room, which was fine.

And then the next two or three nights in a suite. And so it was actually great. And they didn't actually pull the certificate. So I still had those certificates to use for future stays as well. But so I do think that it pushed me to the top of the upgrade priority for having attempted to apply it. And I've heard success stories from people who've talked their way into really nice suites at the check-in counter by mentioning those suite upgrades and being willing to use one. I've heard of people getting the presidential suite, so to speak, or stuff like that, super nice suites, where they've been like, well, I mean, I do have a suite upgrade award if there's any suites available, blah, blah, sweet night award, whatever it is. So, you know, you might be able to leverage that into a negotiation at the check-in desk for a nice upgrade down the road at some point, if you want one for just a night or two or something like that. So yeah, I mean, they're not worthless, but at the same time, if you're going to book them and apply them to a stay in December of,

you know, the next year at the end, when your status is about to run out, you're not going to know until a few days in advance, whether or not they and if they don't clear there's a high chance for breakage to not be able to use them at all so you're like yeah yeah are you willing to gamble the points i don't know it depends on how easily you earn more marriott points how much the marriott right right another issue without with not knowing is when you're traveling with more than two people when when you actually need a suite so so like you would actually like one one workaround is to book two rooms and then wait until the day before to cancel one of them if your suite is cleared. Something along those lines, but not all Marriott's let you cancel 24 hours in advance. Some of them have 14 day or even longer cancel requirements. So

maybe during the COVID time, if you book it now, check out Nick's recent post on the rules by hotel chain because different ones have different rules about that. Do you happen to remember what Marriott does on that? Yeah. Well, the issue with Marriott is that there was some variance or some properties that are just allowed to opt out of it altogether. So you've got to look at the individual rules for the particular property that you're looking at. Not only do they have some brands that are exceptions, but then it also, they've got like a, well, during peak demand times, they may still enforce the cancellation requirement. So you really have to look closely at the rate details for the place you're booking, because I think it's going to depend on demand for that particular location and time of year.

I know that theoretically, if you book by July 5th, 2020, then you can cancel up to 24 hours in advance at most properties for any future stay. So you only have a couple more weeks to be able to take advantage of that. But I was a little hesitant to even just say that now, because that makes it sound a little bit better than it actually is when you when you dig into the details. So you got to be kind of careful and looking at at the exceptions. Yeah. Marriott loves their exceptions. They do. They do. And I got to say, I was surprised when I wrote that post, going to get off on a brief, brief tangent here. But I was surprised when I wrote that post, because I kind of expected that everybody, at least through the end of June, was allowing you to book future reservations that are cancelable up to 24 hours

in advance, no questions asked kind of a thing. That was the impression I was under, but that's not the way it is. That's not the way it is with most. Hilton is the only one that is very much like that. And they also have the longest period. You have until August 31st of this year of 2020 to book future stays and have up to 24 hours in advance to cancel. Now, they still also have a little bit of exception stuff in there, but much less than everyone else, whereas other chains are much more restrictive, and some of them have already passed the time period where you could make reservations that were flexible. So it really does vary quite a bit. IHG got rid of their advanced purchase rates

altogether, blah, blah, blah. So with Marriott, July 5th is the magic date, so to speak. But there's so many exceptions that I would say you really have to look at the rate details for the hotel you're booking and take screenshots. I said that in the post. I'm going to say that again here. I always take screenshots when I'm making reservations of the cancellation policies, because sometimes things change. And I don't even think it's malicious. I don't think it's somebody in the hotel trying to, you know, take away the cancellation policy. How they just change it in the computer and that gets changed in the computer and that's it. And then the person who looks at it six months from now is like, oh yeah, to cancel three

weeks in advance. They don't know that it said something different in the beginning. So keep a screenshot of whatever the policy is. Yeah. Good. Very good advice. So that, that out of the way, back to what we were talking about.

So anyway, yes, Marriott, there's definitely some goodness there, especially for those folks who are in that boat of having gold status, going after platinum. Like you said, if you have platinum already and that's been extended, maybe it's worth something

to go after those Sweet Night Awards. It's going to vary person to person. Personally, I'm going to put you on the spot. How much would it be worth to you for the sweet night awards? I know I said, maybe it's worth it. Maybe not. Do you have a firmer stance as to how many points it's probably worth considering burning to earn those sweet hours? And so this could apply whether you, whether you need five nights to get there or you need

10 nights or you need two nights in the end and you don't have a category one near you. How many points would you be willing to burn? That's a really great question. So, I mean, ironically, I know the answer. I spend to get to platinum or keep platinum or you know if I was gonna lose it or keep titanium I know that answer because I used to spend that much each year when they used to let you use points to buy back your status so I at least know the floor of that I'd probably go higher right the so you spill to buy back at 32,000, right? Is that what it is? It was. So I used to be platinum. The old platinum was more like today's titanium.

It was a 75-night status. I used to buy that back every year for 40,000 points. I think buying back the 50-night status was 25,000 points, I think. But I'm not sure I never did that. And so that was, you know, if you, yeah. And they haven't offered that for a few years now, but that used to be the way it was. If you weren't going to requalify, they would give you a chance to buy back the status that you had. So you didn't have to stay at all.

You could just buy it back each year. So yeah, I mean, that's a different story because then you're getting all of the benefits of elite status without having to spend any money staying in hotels. So that would certainly be worth a lot more points to me. So I agree with you there that that was, you know, a goodbye, so to speak. So as far as what would I spend for the Suite Night Awards,

I think it would depend on – I wouldn't spend much if I didn't have – if I wasn't really sure that I was going to spend time in Marriott. Not just in Marriott, but in Marriott's where I cared about the suite upgrade. So for example, when I'm traveling, when I'm staying in a city because I'm doing business-related travel on my own, I don't want a suite. That's wasted on me. But when I'm with my wife on vacation.

I'm not going wife on vacation. I'm not going to say that. Hyatt, if you're listening, no, I do want to see it. I mean, I'll take it if you give it to me, but I'm not going to go out of my way. Marietta, if I'm staying there, you can go ahead and give me the suite. All right, keep going. I get your point. It doesn't matter. If you're on vacation.

If you're staying at a Fairfield Inn, you don't need to. Definitely not. If you're on vacation with your wife or whoever, then it's more meaningful. And that's when you want to do it. So if you think you're going to be in that kind of situation where getting an upgrade is more meaningful, and it's not a Ritz, and it's not one of those exception properties, if you know that ahead of time somehow, then yeah, I would probably, I mean, honestly, I might be willing to spend 30,000 points because it's high value. And I forgot one other thing.

And you know that your stay will be five nights or less because you're only going to get five Sweet Night Awards. So that whole combination. Yeah. It's unusual, but some people. Which I mean, if you have five that you got last year, it's unusual, but some people, which I mean, if you have five that you're got last year, cause you had platinum status last year. And so you have five from last year, then it might even be more worth going after five more this year.

Cause then you'd have 10. So you'd have enough for a week long stay. If you've got a travel package certificate or something that might be more valuable to you. So there's a lot of variance person to person. I think that, you know what you're saying here, the way that I would kind of say it is, if you know you're going to spend a lot of time at nice Marriott hotels where probably invest too many points on, you know, on hoping that the suite upgrade clears at that one specific place during that one specific week. Right. Right. So that's, that's, that's something to think about. So, and then obviously you got

to think a little bit about where you want to go and is it going to be domestic here and is demand going to be through the roof? So who knows? I think the more flexibility you have in terms of, I'm going to go to a lot of nice Marriott's where a suite would be great. Then great. Go after those. So, all right. So then how about the people who are at titanium size?

We got titanium last year. And so they're going to pick up 38 free nights and you could have 30 from the credit cards again. So you'd be at 68. Yeah. So now you'd be seven nights short of, of 75 night status, which let's say you use two of the free night certificates from your credit

card. So you're five nights short. Is it worth spending the points to go after the 75-night choice benefit? Because you get a choice benefit at 50 nights, and then you also get another choice benefit at 75 nights. You do. And there's a new choice benefit at that level, which is the 40K free night certificate, right? So it's good for just one night free night at any hotel that costs up to 40 000 points and that's kind of interesting in that there's no other way that i that i know of to get a 40k free night certificate there's credit cards that offer 35k and 50k but this one one weird thing i don't know why why they didn't why did they pick 50

that seems to me like a relic from the past that they didn't think to update um but i don't know it's so weird yeah it's so weird uh but anyway even though it's weird it's actually pretty valuable because a lot of properties a lot of properties are standard 35k but peak 40k and there's a lot of good properties in that list and before the whole covid thing when i did a lot of investigations into like what are the best Marriotts here and there? Almost all of the best 35K properties were actually selling at 40K. So that free night is worth a lot more than a 35K free night, like a lot more than it seems in my opinion. Totally agreed. Totally agreed. Yep. Yeah. So, so that is worth it, so now if you're

looking at the situation where you're five nights short, if you can find a category one off-peak property and get a five nights day booked for 20,000 points, then suddenly it looks pretty interesting. And that was kind of the situation I found myself in last year where I was debating what to do because I was going to be five nights short of 75, exactly five nights short. And there was a category one near me where I could book a five nights day. And that was exactly how you presented it to me. You said, well, would you pay 20,000 points for a 40,000 night certificate? And I was like, well, yeah, of course I would, because I'm sure that I'll stay at one of those properties. That's a trade that's worthwhile to me. Would I pay 40,000 points for a 40K certificate? Absolutely not. I'd rather have the points that are flexible.

Don't even think about that. Right. And have you used that 40K cert? No, no, but I'm glad that I didn't because it got extended. Oddly, so weird. Free night certificates in general only got extended until January 31st of 2021. But the 75 night choice benefit ones got extended until December 31st of 2021. So there's another reason those 40k starts are valuable. So now I find myself in position to potentially earn another one to requalify for titanium, which I never in a million years expected I would do this year before COVID. And certainly after COVID, I thought there was no way I was going to spend 75 nights at Marriott hotels this year. But now I suddenly find myself in a position where I'm like, well, maybe I will. And then I'll end up with two 40K certs. So than 40k even less than 35k i just i just booked well not just but uh several weeks ago um in november i'm going to be staying somewhere for

a wedding and um there's a really nice hotel there that's only 25k per night or 350 some dollars a night and so i used the free night certificates. I thought it was actually a good use. So had I paid 25 K points though, for those certificates, then it's not so much I would have lost out, but it would have, wouldn't have felt like you got a deal. I wouldn't have gotten a deal in that situation. Yeah. Right. Right. Right. So you have to think about that, that yes, you may use it for less value than the 40,000 points and or you may end up scrambling to use it at the end

because it does expire. Yeah. I don't know. Do you know if Marriott, so Marriott historically in the credit card free nights, if you got one that's coming up on expiration, then historically we'll extend that at least once anyway, if you call in.

Right. For a whole year. They usually extend it for another, for a whole year. Yeah. For a whole at least once anyway if you call in right for a whole year right extend it for another for a whole year yeah for a whole year from the date that you call so right is it the same with the 40k certs do you know i have no idea yeah i don't know yeah i would guess so i'd be surprised if they have a different way of handling those but who knows you you know yeah now i'm wondering maybe some some readers can write in and let us know. I'm also wondering about the Sweet Night Awards. Could we call in and say, I haven't been able to use these?

You know? You see, that might be trickier, though, because then I don't know, if you didn't qualify for status, though, then you wouldn't have the status to be able to apply them. I don't know. That might get trickierier I guess it depends on whether or not you've re-qualified like right now those Sweet Night Awards are extended until December 31st

of 2021 so you got a decent amount of time to use them same as those 40k certs so you got a decent amount of time to use them right now but yeah could you get those extended another year I don't know yeah hopefully somebody listening or reading can chime in and let us know because it'll be a long time before we get to test that theory out. Right. Right. Quite a while. Yeah. So, so if you were at titanium last year,

then you got your easy 38 nights anyway. And if you have even just one Marriott credit card, then boom, you're going to get the choice benefits. So you're going to get yourself five sweet night awards most likely is what you're going to pick. So that's kind of nice for titanium people. That's what Greg meant when he he said if you're a titanium last year it's like that's nice it's not amazing but great you're going to get five more sweet night awards or you know maybe 40 off a bet or whatever else if you actually want to pick one of those other benefits right i mean you know well you know if it's something you were going to be paying for anyway maybe it's a good deal i don't know although. Right. I think when I looked into it, I saw you could get similar discounts other ways. Similar discounts. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're

totally right. As I recall, I think that was, that was the case too. So, so probably the five sweet night awards anyway. So decent. I think it's really interesting. I think it's a really interesting strategy because it almost guarantees that a number of people, quite a large number of people are going to be looking at trying to find a way to get those last five nights or so that they need to get status, which I think is a great idea because I'm sure a lot of us were thinking we weren't going to spend any nights in Marriott this year. And here Marriott gave us such a big, you know, through such a big bone our way that

we almost have to spend those five nights or at least book them anyway and check in whether we're going to stay for our 20K five-night stays. I do have one of those booked because I booked one at a category one that was going up in price for late December of this year just in case I was close to a status level and wanted to spend the 20,000 points. So now I'm glad I did. Yeah, yeah. That's great that you have that on the books.

So let's talk about another scenario. So somebody who's platinum now and they have both credit cards, they will then have, what is it, 55 nights. But let's say they have, I don't know, a week of stays already on the books already have spent in marriott's right which is not at all unreasonable so so um then we're at like 62 i don't know let's add three to make it 65 so you're 10 nights away from uh titanium status. Uh-huh. How far should you go to get that? So what does titanium get you that platinum does not?

That's a great question. I'm going to ask somebody who's got titanium status. I have it too, I guess. But yeah, I don't know. I mean, in your experience, what is titanium? I actually haven't stayed since I was titanium. I'm not sure if I've stayed in Marriott at all. No, I don't know. What, I mean, in your experience, what is titanium? I actually haven't stayed since I was titanium. I'm not sure if I've stayed in Marriott at all. No, I did.

I did it because I had a couple nights earlier. They should be like Fairfield type nights. Nothing that was amazing or, you know, the one place we stayed in Philadelphia. So I don't have very many nights of actual Marriott stays since I've been titanium. What's it worth? Is it worth anything over in platinum? So it's interesting because one of the things you get is indirectly

is you get United silver status. And so for those who flies United a little bit, you know, it doesn't even have to be a lot to get decent value out of having some status with them. That could be worth quite a bit right there.

I can't remember. It sure could. And let's not understate that because if you book award tickets, I mean, I typically fly on award tickets. And if I'm booking an award ticket on United, I'm usually using Avianca or Turkish Miles and Smiles to book it, which means I'm not using my United credit card to pay for it through United, which means I'm not getting free check bags. Actually, now I have the no fee United card,

so I wouldn't get free check bags anyway. So I'm not getting free check bags. At least I wasn't. But now that I have United silver status, once I get my United number on that reservation, then I'm going to get my silver benefit and get my free check bags. So that certainly could be worthwhile. And not even for upgrades, but just for the check bags if you're a person who checks. So yeah, that's worth something. Some change fees and things are less when you have silver status as well. So there are various benefits that are valuable. Another thing you get is the possibility of getting upgraded at a Ritz to a suite.

Only Titaniums and higher can get that. I don't think any. Yeah, it's kind of a weird little thing that's tucked away in the benefits of titanium. But as far as the experience at any given hotel that normally upgrades Platinum, it's very hard to say whether I get any better treatment as Titanium. I don't think so. The basic welcome benefits are the same. The 4 p.m. late checkout's the same. Most of the experience is the same.

You earn some more points on paid stays, I guess, than Platinum members do. So if you have a lot of paid stays and you earn some extra points over the course of the year, I don't think it's enough points to make it hugely valuable, but a little something. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think the thing is when they first started these new levels, the experiences I was reading from people made it sound as though not even the desk agents really knew the difference often or may not have known whether titanium was higher than platinum. At this point, I would think that most of them know that titanium is higher than platinum, even though it's less valuable than platinum. I think most of them know

that titanium is higher now, but for at least a time that wasn't clear to everybody. So yeah, I don't know as though the, from what I've heard from people, I don't know as though the treatment has been wildly different. I don't think so. Yeah, I don't think so. That said, I like having it. And yeah, I think it's worth, for me, it's mostly, I like keeping that United Silver status. So that's where I stretch for it. And then I like the extra choice benefits. So I think everyone just needs to figure out how much really is the combination of those two things worth to them. Yeah, I think when you combine those two things,

then I'm suddenly like, well, I mean, then that might be worth a little bit more than five nights when the United status is going to add something to me. So, you know, seven nights, 10 nights ten nights i mean ten nights might not be crazy especially if you're able to do them at 20 000 each so 40 000 points to get united silver and right the 40k free night certificate i mean it's basically like you're getting the 40k free night certificate for the 40k points that it would ordinarily cost you plus united i think i think it yeah 40 000 points that's, again,

how much I used to spend each year to buy back that level of status. Right. So if I had a Category 1 easy to get to, I would do that. Yeah. Yeah, so, I mean, there you go. There's definitely a lot of math to do in there, a lot of personal kind of valuation to do with that. But I think it's really interesting.

And the fact that Marriott has us talking about this at a time when most people weren't thinking much about traveling or just scratching the surface of thinking about traveling and probably spending more time thinking about next year than 2020. I think the fact that they've gotten us to talk about this for this long shows what an interesting play this was. I think we said early on, we expected programs to make it easier to earn status. I expected more so that they'd do something like double or triple elite nights or something like that to encourage you to come to the hotel more.

This was a totally different strategy, but yet I think a pretty good one in terms of getting people to want to spend even just a few nights each, which adds up over the course of the festival. Yeah, I have to say, I am surprised we haven't seen more exciting bonus point offers. And yet there's been a lot of different elite status thingies going on, like the Hyatt credit

card getting three elite nights instead of two. You know, there's all kinds of miscellaneous things like that. Or the Hilton card giving you the ability to earn towards lifetime. I guess it shows that elite status is less expensive to them. Maybe that's it. Maybe they're like, yeah. I mean, I guess it doesn't cost them as much to offer those benefits. That makes sense.

I don't know. That makes sense. Yeah, I like that answer. So they're not willing. I guess. Well, because if you think from an accounting point of view, I think they still have to account for points they give out. And so that is an expense.

A liability. Yeah, a liability, right. Whereas the elite status probably doesn't go on the books as a liability. I doubt it does. I wouldn't think so. I don't know how they would value it. Yeah, right, right. I think it'd be impossible to value. So I imagine that has something to do with it it's interesting but

yeah because i expected we'd see big spending you know big bonus point offers you know get an extra 20 000 points for you know staying 10 minutes at the hotel or something you know hyatt used to run those bonus point offers all the time where you could you know with not that many stays or in a ton of extra hyatt points I thought we'd see stuff like that, but you're right. Yeah. We're not seeing that at all. So it must be. Well, I wouldn't say not at all because there were the grocery bonuses, right? You're right. So it's not, not at all. It's just so much less than I think what we expect.

Less than, yeah. Right. Right. When I'm given like 2000 points and stuff like that, that's not going to, not going to probably make a big difference for a lot of people. But speaking of a few points and Hyatt and all that sort of thing, let's transition here for a few minutes and talk about Hyatt milestone benefits. Because at the beginning of this week, you wrote a post about choosing your Hyatt milestone. So just quickly review for me what the Hyatt milestone benefits are and what your choice was. So as you earn nights, elite nights, each year, each calendar year, when you get to starting with 20 nights, so that means you've either spent 20 nights in Hyatt hotels or a combination of that plus like five nights for holding a credit card or, you know,

there's various other ways I guess you could get nights, but it's mostly from actual stays. Once you hit 20 nights, you start getting at every 10 nights, you get a milestone reward. And at most of those times, it's not really a choice. It's just here you get this. Here you go. And that's great. So unlike most programs where you don't get anything until you achieve a elite status level, they decided to instead give us incentives all along the way, which I think is a great policy. So where it gets interesting, or one of the places it gets interesting is at 40 nights.

So at 40 nights, you're given a choice of three different things. One is you can have 5,000 Hyatt points. Second is you could have $100 Hyatt gift certificate. And the third choice is a 10,000 point discount on find experiences. Now, let me start by saying, don't pick that. I mean, unless you know you're about to. It's worth 10 yeah, it's 10,000 point savings. So it sounds like it's worth more than the 5,000 point choice for sure.

And if you value Hyatt points more than a penny each, then it sounds like it's worth more than $100 certificate. But it's only valid for six months. And it's only a discounted and so you have to be booking a actual experience using your hyatt points um and those tend to be at there's not that many experiences like worldwide you might not find any near you but uh if you do like there's some interesting experiences there and so if there's one you really want to do and you, but if you do, like there's some interesting experiences there. And so if there's one you really want to do and you know, you're going to do it within the next six months, great. That probably is the right choice for you. But I just think that. But that's

a pretty, that's a pretty tough thing to know right now, to know that you're both a going to be able to travel to the, you know, one of six places that has a find experience. And then, you know, that that experience is going to be going because, you know, obviously some of those things have been closed down lately and you never know how things might change. I have no idea what six months from now looks like. I mean, if you asked me six months ago, if today was going to look like this, I mean, I wouldn't have had any idea. That's a good point. I mean, the ideal thing would be like, oh yeah, there's a cool, fine experience within 10 miles of where I live. And so I'm going to sign up for that this afternoon. So I'll pick my choice benefit or my milestone benefit now and get a discount

and book it and then go from there. But I don't think too many people are in that situation. No, probably not. Probably not. That one is, that one is definitely the one that's, you know, it's held out there as a carrot dangling in front of you being like, pick me, pick me. Cause they know you're not going to be able to use it and get good value. But that's, that's not the one for most people, especially not right now. You know, maybe next year, a year after when things pick up and you're like, okay, I'm going to go to six different higher properties in the next year that have these fine experiences. I'll use it at one. Maybe, maybe, maybe.

But this year, definitely wouldn't do that. So that one's out. So I think really the dilemma was between picking 5,000 points or $100 gift card. Right. Now the points are a great choice because they're easy like you don't have to worry about them uh you know having to remember where they are you don't have to worry about can use them here or there because they work like all your other points and so if you're using points anywhere that's great uh it's probably going to save you having to transfer 5,000 ultimate rewards points over to Hyatt if that's the way you get your Hyatt points.

So very clear benefit is a very easy one. The $100 certificate is a little bit more complicated in that it's only good in the Americas. So you could use it at any Hyatt theoretically within the Americas. Um, but there's no expiration date. So it's, uh, it's good in that way. And, um, so what, what I came down to in, in that post is, is for me, what was the best choice for me? And I know I'm going to be staying at more Hyatt's in the next year. I mean, I have no doubt about that. And I have no doubt that a number of them will be in America, let alone the Americas, but I think right in the USA. So given that, and given that I know that even when I've paid points for a resort, I usually end up spending some more money at that place.

So I think it's going to be super easy for me to use the down to taking 5,000 points would be almost like buying those points for two cents each. And I think that your conclusion of going with $100 gift card, you certainly made a good argument that sounds convincing on the surface. And I think that point that you're making particularly that you wouldn't buy the 5,000 points at two cents each. I mean, I agree with that thought. On the flip side, you kind of valued it around 80 bucks because you said accurately that sometimes Hyatt gift cards are available at a discount. So that's a good point. Obviously it's limited to being able to be used in the Americas. Another good point. A number of readers mentioned that they've had a lot of difficulty using them at properties outside of the United States at all. So even within the Americas, a number of readers mentioned there may be some hassle there involved in being able to use it. So you valued

it at 80 bucks, which I think is probably a fair enough evaluation. I mean, that seems like a price that we would pay for a $100 gift card. Now, I thought until you just said that, that I had read in the post and I double checked to make sure that I am indeed crazy. I thought that you had said that it expired in a year, but you just said it doesn't expire. And I guess it doesn't because that's not in the post. So I've made that detail up. So that detail would have made a difference to me in arguing why that was a poor choice per se. But on the flip side, I'm going to say, okay, so 5,000 points right now. If you have a ton of Hyatt points already, then you might not value the extra 5,000 points all that much if you've

got plenty of Hyatt points to cover your stays. But if you're considering transferring points from Ultimate Rewards to Hyatt, then I feel like the choice between the 5,000 points and the $100 gift card, I feel like tilts a little bit more in the balance of the 5,000 points because I would rather keep those points in ultimate rewards and keep them flexible to be able to transfer them to partners to potentially get better value. So right now you could redeem them for groceries and get $75 worth of groceries. So pretty close to your $80 in value for the Hyatt gift cards, almost identical. And then if you were buying gift cards at the grocery store with a fuel point promo

for like 4X fuel points or something like that, it could be pretty easy to actually get, I think, a slightly better deal by redeeming those points for groceries right now. Again, if you value the $100 Hyatt gift card at 80 bucks and you're able to get even, let's say the 4X fuel points on $100 is going to be 40 cents a gallon discount. So if you fill up with 11 or 12 gallons, you're at about the five-ish dollar difference between your $75 redemption here and the $80 that you're valuing the gift card. So I think I would rather keep the points flexible in ultimate rewards than transfer them over to Hyatt because you could potentially get much better awards in terms of some premium cabin travel or other partner redemption. I guess the premium cabin travel is generally going to be it

for partner redemptions, but I'd rather hang on to those chase points and use my Hyatt points because I know also on the flip side, I'm probably going to use the points for more value than that. So while I may not be a buyer per se of points at that price, I know there's a really good chance that you're going to stay at that the Ventana Big Sur that's 30,000 points a night where, you know, those points are worth more than two cents a piece, probably, presumably to you. They're going to save you more than the $100 gift card, especially considering the Ventana is now all-inclusive. The gift card isn't going to probably be as big a benefit for you at a property like that. And I think that there's just much more chance over time that you're going to do better than the $80 value that you're going to get. So I was surprised that you took the gift card. There's no doubt that the

two are sort of similar value. And I think you made a really good point that for some of us, we can think of it not as buying Hyatt points, but when you accept the Hyatt points, you're sort of buying ultimate rewards points. Yeah. If ultimate rewards is your usual source of Hyatt points and you know you're going to be booking more Hyatt stays, then you're basically keeping 5,000 extra ultimate rewards points in

reserve. And so that's a really interesting way to think about it. I still think it is, if you know 100% that you're going to be using the $100 gift card without too much trouble, which I mean, I feel very confident of that. So. You probably will. But here's the thing. The $100 gift card is capped at $100 in value. That's the most you're going to get out of it is $100 in value. And valuing it that we all know is, you know, a little, I don't know, I would say a little disingenuous. You're not really getting $100 in value because you're buying this gift card. But we debate that for a while. But the most you're going to get is $100 in value, not a penny more than that. Whereas with the 5,000 points, there is a good chance that you are probably going to get at least that much value out of the 5,000 points.

And a very good chance that you'll get outsized value out of the points and get even more than $100. All right. So let me... 5,000 points is enough for a Category 1. All right. So let me ask you a question. Let's say, let's say you're, you're checking out of a Hyatt and they say, uh, Nick, you're such a good guy. We loved having you here. So we're going to give you a choice, a hundred dollars off your bill happens to me a hundred dollars off your bill, or we'll give you 5,000 extra points on your, on your, uh, account. Are you going to take the points? Well, you see, but you're assuming that I'm paying for this day in the first place. And usually with

Hyatt, I'm not, you know, usually I'm using points for this day. So that's why I value the points more highly because I'm rarely paying the cash rate because the points rate is usually more advantageous for most of the Hyatt stays. I mean, so no, you're right in that scenario. You are absolutely right. I would probably take the a hundred dollars. And that's what it is to me because I, because I know I'm going to use it. So even the Ventana, so I do have a reservation there. I do have a points reservation there. I know it's all inclusive, but, um, there's certain things like, uh, alcoholic drinks and upgraded meals or something like that. I forget what they call it, but when we were last there, uh,

we got the, um, the chef's tasting menu. It was fantastic. It was a really top notch meal. Um, and I'm sure that that's not going to be the included level, right?

They're going to charge up for that. So we'll probably do that at least once during our stay. And so those $100, the $100 will be gone really quickly. Well, yeah. And, and, you know, so I'm arguing lightly, but I can certainly see your perspective there. See, on the flip side, I'm going to give you the other, the other side for the other people out there who are going to, going to be siding with me on this one and say, there hasn't been a year that's gone by in the last several years where I haven't spent at least one night at a category one high that cost me 5,000 points. And none of those times when I've spent the 5,000 points has the

cash rate been less than a hundred dollars a night. So I know it's almost a lock that almost every single year I spend 5,000 points on a high at night that's worth more than a hundred bucks. So I mean, I feel like there's just, again, more of a chance to get outsized value, but the a hundred dollar value is real money. And like you said, if you're going to spend that a hundred dollars in real money, I mean, I can certainly see where you would say, ah, I'd rather save the a hundred dollars in real money, especially because I can generate 5,000 Hyatt points pretty cheaply and easily, especially if you have an in cash or in plus card or something like that, 5,000 Hyatt points are relatively easy to accumulate.

If you read for that. So there's a, there's a, there's a good post asking whether it's worth cashing out ultimate awards points at 1.5 cents each. And it makes a good argument that sometimes the getting the cash is the right answer. So I recommend you read that and what you think about this.

I don't know who wrote that. Who wrote that good post? Who said you should cash out points for money? Who would have said that? And then I think he was some goofball. Some goofball. That's right. Who writes it frequently?

All right. So anyway, that's how we beat that one all the way. All right. So that said, now that's going to bring me then to the question of the week. And so the question of the week is something that is actually related to the Marriott thing that I'm glad we didn't talk about because that left it here for question of the week. So my question of the week came from somebody on the post about the Marriott benefit, but I think it's an interesting one that applies also to Hilton perhaps and other chains. So what they asked me on this one was, oh, oh, I had the wrong one. Oh shoot. I had the wrong one queued up. All right. So the gist of the question was this, they are, they need 10 years of titanium status or 10 years of platinum status in order to

get lifetime platinum status. And so this year is year number nine. Now platinum status has been extended through 2021. Will next year count as the 10th year of lifetime status? So for those programs like Marriott or Hilton that have extended status for another year, is that year going to count towards lifetime status? And before you answer that, I will say that I didn't mention this earlier, but those free elite nights that Marriott is giving that we spent all that time talking about, those do count towards lifetime status. So if you need nights towards lifetime status, those are going to post for you. But will that free year of status count towards lifetime status? What do you think? So just to be clear, we're now answering a question for which we don't know the answer, right?

Right, so this is a guess. Yeah, this is a guess. And also to be clear, if we called anyone at Marriott and they told us one thing or another, we would have no reason whatsoever to believe that they know the answer. Anything they say.

Right, right. In fact, when I answered the question, I half anticipated that the reader who asked, Abby, it was going to come back and say, well, could you ask your Marriott contact? And I was thinking to myself, I can, but I wouldn't bet $3 on Marriott getting that answer right. And that's nothing to say about the person that we have, the contact we have at Marriott. I think their information is very solid. I just don't think that they probably will know the answer.

They'll make up an answer, but I doubt they're going to actually know the answer. Exactly, exactly. It reminds me of when, you know, they announced that all Marriott cards would have the grocery bonus. And we were like, well, what about the Ritz card? And it was only because I got an email about my Ritz card that we were able

to answer that question. Right, right. Do we know? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And so it's lucky it wasn't a Citibank card because we wouldn't have gotten that email for another month and a half. Right, because then we wouldn't know for like another month or two.

Far into it, far into it, sometime down the road. So the unequivocal answer is yes, that's going to count. The next year with Marriott is going to count uh for your lifetime status with um with hilton it won't with ihg it will subtract and so there you go there you have it it's the official frequent miler word we know that everybody's listening to the podcast so surely marriott and hilton and ihg are going to play along with that now that they now that all the podcast. So surely Marriott and Hilton and IHG are going to play along with that. Now that they, now that all the reps know.

Sorry IHG fans going for her lifetime status. Does IHG have lifetime status? For life, you can never get breakfast. Congratulations. No free breakfast for you for the rest of your life. So anyway, let's just stay at Holiday Inn Express. So yeah, we don't know, but,

but if you were taking a guess, if you're taking it, because I mean, my guess is that yes, it will. I would think so. I would think so. Yeah.

So, so I mean, that's something to consider too. If you're, if you're reaching for one of those goals and this promo, like for example, you know, if you're a gold and you need

another year of titanium and all of a sudden you find yourself in striking distance of platinum or whatever it might be, you might want to also consider where it puts you on the lifetime status meter. Now, do you value lifetime status? Is that important to you? Do you have lifetime status with Marriott? I don't yet, but I'm very close. About a year and a half ago, I think I posted like how much I was going to have to get each year. And it's pretty cool that I'm getting closer. I already have the 10 plus years. And that was because I'd been buying back platinum status year after year.

And that counted. What's that? And that counted back then. That counted. And then also a few years, I think they added on maybe two years of Starwood status. Oh, yeah, when they merged. I don't know.

I can't remember how that all worked because I never had platinum with Starwood until the sort of pre-merger where they gave us some reciprocal perks, I think, including status, if I remember right. So I think I got two years out of that, maybe. I'm not sure. But anyway, yeah, I'm close.

Yeah, no, I value it a lot. I think that platinum status is the sort of sweet spot in the Marriott hierarchy of elite statuses so you have silver that's worth nothing you've gold that's worth tiny tiny little bit and then you have platinum which suddenly gets you free breakfast and lounge access a lot of places and then you have you know titanium which which does give you some nice extras but not as much extra comparing like gold to platinum. So, you know, if you're, right. If you're looking to do a little extra work to get to platinum,

like I would go further on that scale than to do a little extra work to get to titanium. And, um, and there is no lifetime titanium anymore. Like the lifetime titanium, you could have gotten like at the merger point if you had the right situation, but now you can't. So now it's lifetime platinum is it? That's right. That's right. And so, yeah, no, I think, I think it's really cool that once those of us who are in shouting distance of it, if we could get there and when we get there, then we won't have to worry year after year about trying to get to the 50 nights. And that'll be nice. I didn't think I was going to get there this year, but now the new situation makes it super easy.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, as soon as they add those nights, I'll have platinum status again. And so, I mean, I have platinum status now, I guess. I have titanium status now. So I was going to have it anyway. But that'll be another year for me, I guess, of qualifying. Hopefully if the free night, free year didn't count, then I will have qualified another year and I'll picked up a bunch of nights. I am way short of the nights required for lifetime status. So the year requirement, I'm right around the

year requirement. If I don't have it, I'm pretty close anyway, but the number of nights I'm like, way below the requirement. So it's going to take quite a few years of staying in Marriott for me to get there. Uh, and I'm not actively working on it, but then again, I don't know. I mean, if I pick up 75 nights unexpectedly this year, then maybe I'll spend some more time traveling next year to make up for all the travel I didn't do this year. So there you go. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. So there you go. There you go. Abby, hopefully that answers your question as best we can. I mean, for not being able to answer your question,

I think we did pretty well. We nailed it. So we nailed it. Nailed it. You want to read more about what we've been talking about today. You want to get on our email list, follow us on Twitter and all that kind of fun stuff. You want to go to the frequent miler.com slash subscribe.

That's the frequent miler.com slash subscribe. That's thefrequentmiler.com slash subscribe. Also, if you're watching this video on YouTube, subscribe on YouTube, right? Like us, give us some comments, that sort of thing. Same goes for the podcast. You'll find links again to all of the posts that we've been talking about in the show notes for this particular show that you want to get on that subscription list so you can get email alerts of all of our future posts. Thank you very much, Greg.

And thank you everybody out there who's been listening. Thank you, Nick. And goodbye, everybody. Looking forward to talking to you next week. See you then.