Frequent Miler on the Air - Is the Chase Sapphire Reserve king for life or on its last term? | Ep62 | 9-5-20

Episode Date: September 5, 2020

In light of the coming Chase Freedom Flex and enhancements to the Chase Freedom Unlimited, is the Sapphire Reserve the king of the Ultimate Rewards wallet, or should you save money with the lower fee of the Sapphire Preferred or Ink Business Preferred? Greg and Nick discuss that, airline change fee changes, and more. This week's timestamps may be added after publication. Music credit: Annie Yoder

frequent miler on the air starts now today's main event is the safari reserve king for life or is it on its last term what do you think well you know what i think but we'll talk about it yeah don't answer it now we've got other things to do first don't we we do first we're gonna dip into the giant mailbag that's right here it comes what we've got dragging things to do first, don't we? We do. First, we're going to dip into the giant mailbag. That's right. Here it comes. See what we've got this week. Dragging it out.

Dragging it out. Okay. All right. This week's mail message is from Mary. Mail message from Mary. Mary says, this is kind of a long one, so bear with me. I've actually edited it down a bit but um there's points i want to make okay mary says i just wanted to thank the three of you and she edited out the names but i

mean i edited out the name so steven was included in the three of us and she actually also went on to thank our spouses too but i thought that should definitely be edited out because we're not really helping with the blog that much so and then you just edited them back in right there. I just. I want to thank the three of you for your podcasts, YouTube, and emails. Oh, and for sure the tweets. Not to bash the competition, but I have to say that, beep, so insert a name of another major blog there, is what got me interested in researching this subject.

But I have become so disappointed in how they have handled things in the past six months. I appreciate that FM has kept up with actual content. If anything, provided much more and more relevant content, not just straining together a bunch of backlinks to old irrelevant blog posts. I hope you'll keep going through this pandemic. We will. And look forward to the travel on the other side of it. Okay. So that's all very nice, but then she's got a PS. So she says, I did find the stay K contest a bit goofy, but I get that the initial quarantine was tough for high energy, creative people to know what to do with all that time. So Mary's, Mary's loving the content.

Not such a big fan of stay K to far away contest. You know, different strokes for different folks. Not everybody's going to like everything that's a okay, but, but thank you for your feedback, Mary. Like a lot of nice things there. I appreciate it. I did want to say about the stay K thing. I think she has a point in that. I mean, if you think about the 40 K to far away challenge, we, that challenge had the its almost very nature, didn't lead us to develop, you know, find any new findings. Didn't provide value beyond the entertainment. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And, you know, I think if we have to do it again, if we have to do a from home one again, I think we should do something that does further the field, like where we're competing to find the best sign-up offers that would lead to then the best vacation. Like you have to string all that together. Maybe not actually do any of the things, but something like that where we'd be pressured to actually put our minds to the task of doing something that helps our audience to go further

with the hobby. So anyway, that's why I wanted to include her comment, her PS on there, because that really had me thinking. And that's the best kind of feedback, I think, is those that get us to think about next steps and how to improve and so on. So yeah, thank you, Mary. Thank you. So, so that brings us then going on for that. What's the next segment? What crazy thing did city do this week? So city was not the craziest of the week, but not the craziest, not the craziest, right? Right. I'm going to say that they weren't crazy. Now they've been, they've been.

They've got their own crazy going. Right, right. They just become non-crazy all of a sudden. You're crazy, you're just crazy. City's crazy. Right, right, right. But they were outdone this week because this week we had a really big surprise, right? We did. We did.

And United Airlines decided to stop following, playing follow the leader, and they took the lead, the lead, on eliminating change fees of all the domestic airlines. I mean, you could say- He didn't hear that correctly. He said United took the lead. Right, right, right. I mean, some people will be arguing, wait a minute, wait a minute,

Southwest did that a long time ago. Yeah, but that's a whole nother thing. This is this new round. They set off a new round. All of them followed United's lead, including Delta was first to follow, which usually in the past few years, they've been first to perform.

They were first to follow, but with very little information. So you kind of get the impression that they weren't quite ready and just had to put out something quickly saying yeah yeah us too but but in like no time after that american airlines came out with quite a bit of detail about their no change fees so there i think it's pretty clear they were getting ready and and maybe united got wind of that and and decided to jump in front of the line. I don't know. And then not that long, maybe it was the next day or something, we heard from

Alaska that went even further than the others in some ways of eliminating change fees. So great news for customers. But yeah, surprising that United was first. Good news. Very good news for customers. Great news. I mean, I hesitate a little bit on it. It's very good news. We're great. It seems like a little bit of a stretch because basically everybody excluded basic economy tickets, right?

So the cheap ticket that you're going to buy domestically probably because it's a cheap ticket or at least the one you're going to be tempted or you're going to be drawn in to look at because this is the price you see advertised initially. That one can't be changed. And goodness knows, I've been at the gate. I don't fly as much as a lot of people do. And I got to say, almost every time I've been at the gate of a legacy carrier in the last year or two, I've seen people at the gate that were confused as anything about the fact that they couldn't bring a full size carry on. I know basic economy has been around for a while. If you travel a lot, you understand that's how it works. There are a lot of people out there that don't. And they saw in the nightly news this week that the airlines are eliminating change fees.

And goodness knows those folks are going to be in for a surprise when they book their basic economy tickets. So great seems like a bit of a stretch. Very good. So I agree. I agree with that. There's some hidden, the hidden gem in all this is that at least some of them are going to be waiving change fees on award tickets and that's

and yeah i don't see any downside to that i mean that's that's pretty exciting um now the thing about basic economy i can imagine what's going to happen in the long run is a bigger gap than there exists even now between the price of basic economy and regular economy, basically forcing us to pay for changeable tickets if we want them. They're going to bake that in there. They're going to bake in the money somewhere. They're not going to give up the revenue. Maybe you won't pay $200 more because most people probably aren't going to change the tickets still. So, but you pay something more than you would have before. I agree. So actually my, my excitement was limited in the beginning when I heard this,

cause I said to myself, well, you know, most of the time I'm traveling on award tickets, I'm not usually buying my tickets. And so I'm usually using an airline mile that's already fairly flexible, that has a low change fee from some foreign carrier, in some cases, no change fee at all, like Virgin Atlantic and British Airways. So when you're booking domestic US tickets anyway, which is what they're basically waiving the fees on. So I was like, eh, I'm not really getting that much more. Yeah, okay, yeah, if you had to buy a ticket, then yeah, of course's something more, but, but for people who are heavy into the game, so to speak,

into the award travel game, I thought it wasn't a huge win except for award tickets. When you, when you pull in award tickets like Alaska did, right. I mean, Alaska everywhere, their award tickets everywhere they fly, right? That, so that wasn't part of their – so yes, the paid tickets everywhere they fly, the award ticket thing was not part of their press release, but Dan Steele's got information somehow that told them that this included award tickets. So it sounds like Alaska's approach is worldwide and includes booking partner airlines. So that's what we want right because that's yeah yeah yeah um so if that sticks uh that's that's pretty huge and if their word chart doesn't get decimated too badly once they move into the one world territory um then that's really great news because it means we have a, you know, I think it makes Alaska Airlines miles, you know, more valuable.

Then, of course, the word chart devaluation we expect to happen will make them less valuable, but hopefully the combination won't be too bad for customers. Right, right, right. I agree. Yeah, and so, you know, I guess my fear when I saw the elimination of change fees is that they're going to make up the revenue somewhere. So on the occasion, when I have to buy a paid ticket, it's going to be a little bit more expensive, probably than what we were paying before. Although I say that obviously with travel, it's going to be a while before everything recovers. So I guess in the near term,

everything's going to be still probably pretty cheap. So overall, I think a net win for customers, especially with all the legacy carriers taking this approach. I already preferred Southwest, which had an arguably much better policy anyway than everybody else. So again, it wasn't massive to me. Now, as far as the nuances go, what are the key differences between what United is doing and American and Delta and Alaska?

I know you put together a chart. So can you explain? What are the key differences between what United is doing and American and Delta and Alaska? I know you put together a chart. So can you explain? Yeah, so we have a nice chart on the site that summarizes all of them. And so there's different aspects of all of this. But as far as just change fees on paid tickets goes, they're all the same in that they don't include basic economy. They're also surprisingly all the same in that they do include basic economy and all international flights up to December 31st, meaning that's their COVID policy, that if you're ticketed by that date, even for later travel, apparently there's no change fees. and so that kind of surprised me because i i i don't know

whether they had already changed their covid policies to for december 31st to be the end date i don't know not everybody had no i don't think so so they all jumped on that date which is which is handy because it was really hard before keeping track no you know and so now you know you have until the end of the year to book these tickets and they're changeable. So that's great news right there. The biggest difference on that aspect of it, the paid change fees that happen for tickets after December 31st, is which, if any, international locations they allow. So they all allow the 50 US states.

Only I think it, well Alaska allows everywhere, but they don't fly everywhere. So, you know, that's kind of a limited value, but American also allows flights to Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean. So they have the best from that point of view. One other aspect that's important, United has this very unfriendly policy, which is if you change to a cheaper flight, the difference in the value is gone. No word yet from Alaska or Delta what they're doing about that. I suspect they'll both

follow American's lead and allow you to keep that value. But again, we don't, we don't know for sure yet. That's a key importance to me. I mean, that's, that's, that's worth hitting one more time. So if you buy a thousand dollar ticket on United and you want to change it later on to a $500 ticket, your $500 is gone evaporated. I mean, that's the worst than the $200 change fee. I don't know. I don't know how that worked with the $200 change fee in the past. I guess maybe you lost it already, but that looks pretty bad anyway, comparatively. So that's definitely something to be aware of. If you're going to book a flight counting on flexibility,

I would say you want to book a cheap flight counting on flexibility, not an expensive one. I'm going to be interested to see as time progresses, whether any of these airlines change their policies in reaction to the others. Yeah. So maybe United will change that because American definitely had a much better policy there in terms of giving you that residual value back in a voucher you can still use. I mean,

that just makes sense. That's the way that ought to be if you're going to do free changes. Right. And you know what? They all have about until January to change their, their, their policies. And so, you know, I'm sure that's why Delta was so vague. They're not ready to make those decisions yet. But another thing is standby. So

both American and United are saying you can get on the standby list for free. I guess they were charging for that before, which has always sounded kind of weird to me that you're going to charge people for the chance of getting on an earlier flight. So that's good news if you want to go standby. United added for any elites, you could do free same-day changes, which I guess, again, I guess was charged before for some elites. I don't really look into that i didn't get that when i saw it because i did a free same day change as an elite member this last year so i really really yeah so i was you know i'm not very familiar with the benefits because my united silver status comes from marriott titanium but yeah we we spoke at the uh travel and adventure

show at the beginning of march dc and i'm And on the way back, I changed to a later flight, and it didn't cost me anything to do. So, yeah, I don't know. But I saw that, yes. I think the standby thing, being able to fly standby for free makes sense. You get a lot of mostly empty planes, and people are going to come to the airport early. You might as well let them get on that earlier plane

and take a chance at selling an extra ticket on the later flight. Just it's like not hurting them to right no downside for them right right i don't see any anyway um okay so uh then then american had its own special thing which uh is is about basic economy and basically they're they're making basic economy more flexible in that if you're not elite, you can buy up to things like upgrades and seed assignments and things. So you can sort of a la carte make it what you really want, sort of, except for the no change, except for free changes. And if you're elite, you get the elite benefits, like upgrades, seat assignments, so picking your premium economy seats and things like that.

So that's, well, and then the one downside is for elites chasing status going forward is that you don't get, you don't earn any elite qualifying miles or dollars for those basic economy flights. I find this really interesting because as a Delta flyer, right, I tend to, for paid flights, avoid flying Delta basic economy because I want my upgrades. I want to sit in first class or at least comfort plus or whatever, right? And comfort basic economy won't let me do that. But if Delta were to adopt American's policy, I'd be happy camper. Yeah, I mean, you'd be really happy because you don't need that.

And yeah, because I don't need the elite qualifying miles or dollars from the flight because I get all my elite status from credit card spend. So it made me think more about how valuable it is in this new world as, as things change anyway, it appears to be more valuable than ever to get elite status from other means other than flying. And so think about American Airlines now. They've been giving elite status to some Hyatt globalists. And so now those Hyatt globalists who got American elite status,

who may not have ever flown American, now can buy basic economy tickets and get upgraded and everything. So I think that's really cool and, and kind of plays into the type of stuff we like to write about and talk about. So looking forward to see where that goes with other airlines. Yeah. You know, I thought that was, I thought that if I were somebody chasing elite status, buying my flights, I probably wouldn't be happy about not getting any elite benefits, or rather not benefits, rather, but not getting any elite credit on those basic economy flights.

But I thought to myself, man, but the whole purpose of having elite status is to get the benefits. So in my world, where I wouldn't earn my status based on the traditional methods anyway, I thought that was great. I was like, oh, awesome. So I could get an upgrade or be able to at least select my seat and all of those other things that matter to me from elite status and pay for the basic economy ticket. Right, right. So if, for example, United follows the lead on this, then having Marriott titanium status becomes more valuable

because titanium gives you United silver and boom, you get the upgrade, seed assignments, all that kind of stuff. So hopefully they will. Hopefully. Okay, fingers crossed. Right. Might have to go for titanium again

if that's the case. And then if all that happens, that increases the value of cash over miles for domestic flying, right? Right. Right. Definitely. Yeah. Just in case that comes up in a later conversation today. Okay.

I thought I'd mention that. Okay. All right. All right. All right. Are we ready to move on to mattress running the numbers? Mattress running the numbers. Mattress running the numbers. I'm excited about mattress running the numbers today because mattress running the numbers today, we're going to talk about something

that you can't do because we missed it. So unfortunately we're going to, we're going to imagine a time machine because Greg and I let this one slip by us and we want you to help us decide whether we really messed up and let the opportunity of the year pass us by or you know if this was one that it was okay for us to skip so right so when I say the words best western I know everybody is captivated so oh yeah they're all thinking luxury accommodations best in the world. Yep, go ahead. So Best Western, for at least a few days, had these overlapping promotions. So a few pieces to this deal. First piece that I'll put out there

was the last piece that came out, and that was an Amex offer. It was good for $20 back when you spent $100. So, okay. So you have to spend that at Best Western. I have to spend $100 at Best Western. That was the gotcha. That was the gotcha, yes. That was the gotcha. Gotta spend that at best western have spent 100 bucks that was what you do that was the gotcha yes that was the gotcha gotta spend it at best western so yeah spend 100 bucks at

best western get 20 bucks back so your net cost let's say you found a stay that was 100 bucks net cost is 80 bucks now i saw you could go through a shopping portal for five percent back on the original 100 so really net cost to be75 for a theoretical stay. Now, follow up here. They had two promotions going on. One, where you had to stay one time before some date, and you can get a $25 Best Western travel card, which is their way of saying a Best Western gift card with a very limited time frame. So a $25 Best Western gift card that was good until December 31st of this year. Right? Yep. Plus, there was a second promotion, where if you stayed at Best Western, and within 10 days, you filled up your gas tank or paid an electricity, oh no, I'm sorry, you filled up your

electric car or filled up a gas tank of some sort with at least $10 worth of gas or electricity, you save your receipt and take a picture and email it to somebody and wait, you can get another $25 travel card. Woohoo. Yeah. So that's two of them for those playing at home. That's $50. 50 bucks. 50 bucks.

50 bucks in best Western credit that has to be spent by the end of this year. Well, I mean, you're, you're looking at a very glass half empty, Greg. I mean, you have 50 bucks that's valid all the way until the end of the year. All the way. All the way. The end of 2020. Right. And so you get to stay for about $75 spend, right?

Yep, right. You get to stay in a Best Western now. Well, like at the end of when the promotions were still overlapping. Right. And you get to go through some rigmarole to qualify for the promotion by sending in these receipts and things. And then you get two travel gift cards. So you get maybe one more cheap stay out of it or a big discount off your next day.

Well, and don't forget, Greg, don't forget that Best Western Rewards members get 10 points per dollar spent. So on your $100 stay, you're also going to get around 1,000 points, maybe a little less because your $100 probably included tax. But around 1,000 Best Western points on top of all of that. Right, Right. And, and do best Western points expire because you know, it, so if we did this, if we let's say a best Western redemption is about 15,000 points, I'm just guessing. I don't know. So if we did this once a year for 15 years, we'd have enough for a free night somewhere. And a luxurious best Western. Assuming our points haven't expired by then but maybe maybe the they'd be renewed by doing this every once a year exactly

yeah maybe nobody really so so greg was it worth a mattress run i mean 50 in best buy funny or not best best western funny money that had to be used by the end of this what do you think it's it's so laughably not even close. It's great. I love this one. So, you know, I wish it was still available so that we could really debate it. You know what I really enjoyed about this was that second promotion where you have to fill up a gas tank or an electric car and send in the receipt.

Like, there was absolutely no purpose to that part of the requirement other than breakage. Right. Right. They want to cause additional, they want an additional hurdle that so people would forget about this thing and not bother doing it and just forget. They really thought that that like three month, $25, four month, $25 gift card would draw in people enough and then just just be able to, you know, break it with the $10 gas receipt. Right. Wow. Wow. No, it's, it's kind of, it's kind of brilliant too in a way, because you know, if anyone is interested in this $25 card,

you know, filling up your tank with $10 of gas does not sound like a hurdle. And, you know, because everybody does that eventually. And so you just had to do it within 10 days. Right. And that, so, you know, it doesn't sound that hard, but the reality is lots and lots of people will forget. Right. So throw away the receipt or, you know, yeah. Or just be like, yeah, just, just remember to email it in and all that. Yeah.

So I love it. It's totally ridiculous. Sorry, Best Western. Sorry, didn't hop on that one. Forgot to sync the MX offer and all that. So thank you, Best Western, for a little bit of entertainment value today anyway. Right, right, right, right.

So Best Western is not the only one who is surprising us with great new offers. But hopefully, if we're going to have any more show here, the next one's going to be a little bit better. Yeah. No, I was trying to come up with a transition to our main event. I thought it was a good transition. I was kind of struggling there.

But no, Chase pretty much surprised the heck out of all of us they did they did it's been a big week with chase because not only did they announce the debut of a brand new credit card but they revamped a credit card that was already pretty popular so uh we saw some interesting stuff come out so as of september i think 14th in branch and 15th online, the Chase Freedom Flex will become available, which is basically like the Chase Freedom card right now. It's got rotating 5X categories, but with a couple of other category bonuses.

So it's going to be 5X for travel, booked through the Chase Ultimate Rewards Portal, 3X dining, including takeout and your delivery services, and 3X drugstores. Those 3X and 5X categories are at this point, as far as we know, uncapped. So the rotating categories, of course, capped at $1,500 a quarter, just like the Freedom Card. But those are fixed categories at the end that I mentioned, the 5X Travel, Book Through Chase, 3X Dining, and 3X Drugstores. Those are fixed bonus categories that presumably have no cap based on all the information we've seen. And the Freedom Unlimited is also picking up those fixed bonus categories. So that's going to be something that even existing

cardholders get, 5X Travel, Book Through Chase, 3X Dining, 3X Drugstores. So that's going to be something that even existing cardholders get. 5X travel book through Chase, 3X dining, 3X drugstores. So that's going to be available on both the Freedom Unlimited and this new Freedom Flex. So first of all, I was shocked that Chase released a brand new credit card that I hadn't even heard rumored. Have you heard anything about this? I had not heard a thing. It was totally shocking. And it's a MasterCard. I mean, they've been on Visa Network

for quite a while now. And so, you know, something interesting was happening behind the scenes. And I don't know, are we going to hear, are we going to see more of this kind of thing going forward? I mean, you would think, I don't know, you would think if there was more, they would have done the Freedom Unlimited and the Freedom at the same time going to MasterCard. But I don't know. It's so weird. It is weird. You know, a reader on one of our posts said, I thought they had a really sweet deal with Visa. You know, what's up with the MasterCard? And I responded with something like, apparently not as sweet as whatever MasterCard offered. Because obviously they moved over there. And we've seen a few companies moving some visas over to MasterCard in this last year here. So I am curious.

I mean, we won't find out, I'm sure. But I'm curious as to what it is that MasterCard is offering everyone to move some of these cards over. But then more importantly, what else is coming? Because I can't imagine that they bothered making a deal with MasterCard for one credit card. I mean, they already have the IHG card, I guess, but for one new card, I don't know. That seems silly to me. It does.

Something else coming. It seems really strange. So I'm looking forward to finding out what's happening there, but there's plenty to chew on right now. I mean, so Freedom Unlimited, as you said, was already a very decent card. It was the, for those who enjoy being

in the ultimate rewards ecosystem, it was the go-to card for your everywhere else spend because it gives you one and a half points per dollar everywhere. But now it adds these very valuable bonus categories like drugstores, which if you haven't been into a drugstore lately, you might want to know that you could usually buy lots of different gift cards there. So that's a very easy 3x earnings. Restaurants. So now if you had, for example, the Sapphire Preferred or the Ink Business Preferred, and we're kind of feeling jealous of the Sapphire Reserve cardholders who are getting 3x dining, you don't have to be jealous anymore. You can get that too.

With no annual fee. With no annual fee. And that's true of both of these cards right so wow yeah it's it's uh it's great i mean i i love i love how the all these card companies keep having these category bonus wars one after the others trying to outdo the other and that's all good for us it is amazing and i feel like there is this proportional thing between the more that gary laugh writes about the fact that the interchange fees are getting competed down. And so eventually the card companies aren't going to be able to offer as much. The more they start to offer in terms of bonus categories.

So, Gary, please keep it up. Just a small joke there. I love Gary. I love the blog. But I mean, I feel like I've been seeing that over the last few years. I mean, we see it in the news and the mainstream media too, that interchange fees have been competed down. So I'm surprised.

I would kind of expect things to go in the other direction. You know, if you had told me a year or two ago that we'd be seeing lots of cards with 3 and 4 and 5X dining and we get 3X dining with no annual fee, I mean, that just seems pretty interesting to me. Yeah. Oh, it definitely does. And I mean, it's not that long ago that we were excited about 2X categories that were on available on some cards. And now that sounds so unbelievably boring. I mean, now that partly was due to Amex, Flu Business Plus, and Citi Double Cash both setting the bar at 2x

everywhere for no fee cards, which by itself was unbelievable. So now we've got these cards with no fee, but 3x earnings in very desirable categories, which again, that's fantastic. And in case anyone who's listening doesn't know, as long as you have any premium Chase Ultimate Rewards card in your household, you can then make your points more valuable. So they're not just worth one cent each. You can move them. So let's say your spouse has a Sapphire Preferred. You can move the points you earned on your Freedom Card to your spouse's Sapphire Preferred account and then transfer those points to airline and hotel programs to get more value or to book travel at 1.25've got to update our Ultimate Rewards Guide. Right, right. Things have changed so much. Right.

And it's worth mentioning on that note, I told you a second ago that that Freedom Flex is going to debut online, I think September 15th. But those increased bonus categories on the Freedom Unlimited start September 13th. So even a couple of days earlier. So if you already have a Freedom Unlimited, you're getting that 5X Travel book through Chase,

3X Dining, 3X Grocery Store, starting on September 13th. So I said grocery store just a second. I'm sorry, I misspoke. 3X Drugstores, sorry. So 3X Drugstores, 3X Dining, and the 5X Travel. So that's gonna start September 13th for Freedom Unlimited cardholders. Yeah, I mean, that's pretty cool.

If you were a Chase person, was already your everywhere else card. And now it just became nice in terms of bonus categories. And again, it competes with the premium cards. So when you mentioned the premium cards to travel to partners, the premium cards from Chase or the Sapphire Preferred, the Sapphire Reserve and the Inc Business Preferred, those are the ones that are still available now. Some listeners might have an old Inc Plus that's, you know, that that one allows transfers to if you still have it. But, but

anyway, so there's those other three are the ones that are available today. If you have any of those, you can transfer to partners. So that's, that's a pretty cool thing with 3x at drugstores and 3x dining. So big announcement there. And the rotating card is going to be taking over for the freedom card so the freedom card the visa is going away that card will no longer be available for new applications starting september 14th you will be able to product change over to the flex if you want the flex because the flex is a master card and like greg said that's kind of interesting because it comes with a few extra benefits so the fact that it's a world master card or world elite master, whatever the label is,

the flex is going to offer cell phone protection. So cover up to $800 per claim up to a thousand dollars per year with only a $50 deductible. So that's a pretty nice benefit shop runner shipping and some other bells and whistles. Also, I didn't mention, but both of those cards are going to offer five X on lift rides for, I can't remember how long, but 5x on Lyft rides too. So another feature that's

not too shabby at all. So are you interested in either of these cards? Which one's going to end up in your wallet? What does this do for the ultimate rewards ecosystem? Does it make the system more valuable, less valuable? Does it devalue any of the cards? What do you think? Oh, well, I mean, it clearly makes the whole ecosystem more valuable because with no annual fee, you're earning a lot more points. And especially, again, as I mentioned before, if you're into buying gift cards, getting 3x apparently uncapped at drugstores, I mean, there is some risk of shutdown if you go too far with it. But still, that's a super nice benefit. That means we can be earning points at a much higher rate than before. It does decrease the value of getting 3x, as I mentioned

before, of getting 3x for dining with the Sapphire Reserve. It also arguably decreases the value of getting 3x travel with the Sapphire Reserve because of that 5x travel book through Chase. So that kind of depends how much you're willing to book your travel through Chase and give up on the Sapphire Reserve's travel protections. So the Freedom does have some minor travel protections, but they're just not very broad at all. And so,

yeah. So should we be giving up that Sapphire reserve now is what you asked. Right. Right. Or I think you suggested. So if you're going to be in the chase ecosystem, then you want a card to be able to transfer to partners, right? So of course you could take the money as cash back, one cent a point, but you can do much better. So you're going to want a premium card, one of those three, the Sapphire Preferred Reserve or

Inc. Business Preferred. You're going to have to choose one of them. Now the Sapphire Preferred and the Inc. Business Preferred each have a $95 annual fee. The Sapphire Reserve ordinarily has a $550 annual fee. People renewing right now are getting a better deal. They're only paying $450 for renewal through the end of the year. But if you were to apply new, it'd be $550 a year. So which of those cards do you want to have as your premium card? You need one of them in your household.

So, and again, like Greg said, it could be you or a spouse, somebody else who lives with you. You only really need one. which one will it be? And so I said that now that you can get three acts on dining with a card that has no annual fee, that eliminates the entire value of that bonus category on the Sapphire Reserve. Whereas in the past, we talked about how much you have to spend on dining and travel to make the Sapphire reserve worth it over the Sapphire preferred or ink business. Now that just totally eliminates the dining category. So it doesn't matter what you spend on dining. Well, at least within the U S it does, which for the short term is,

right. I'll be everywhere. Right. Right. Right. So, so, all right. So there's not much value there. And the travel again, like Greg said,

it depends on how much you value the travel protections to the sapphire reserve because you could get 5x booking your travel through chase now there's some downsides there if you're booking hotels through the chase portal you're not going to get elite benefits and elite credit and hotel points and maybe they won't have the best price or the best rates etc for flights it's probably going to be about the same price you'd pay anywhere so it's more or less going to be 5x flights and then 5x if the hotel happens to work out for your needs kind of a thing but remember also cruises are bookable through their other types of travel so the 5x travel book through chase like greg said might compete with the 3x anyway it's definitely going

to compete for some of your 3x travel spend it used to go on the Sapphire Reserve. So which card would it be? And in my case, I said for sure it would be the Inc. Business Preferred. I'd want to have that card because that would give me the 3x travel that I'm on travel that isn't booked through Chase. 3x travel when I want to book my hotel directly with the hotel chain or 3x travel when I want to book a ferry or something else that's going to code as travel that I can't book through Chase. I'll still get the same 3x that I would have had with the Sapphire Reserve, but I'm only going to pay a $95 annual fee instead of a $550 annual fee. You, however, Greg, said that the Sapphire Reserve is still the king. I did. $550 a year to be able to transfer to partners. What's up with that? How is that possibly the king? Okay. So, you know, first of all, if, when you look below the covers

a little bit, you're, you're reminded that it, the SAFRA reserve also has a $300 annual travel credit, which means any travel you pay for, you're getting reimbursed $300. So, so the, the, the net annual fee is quite a bit less than the headliner, right? You also get $60 back from DoorDash for, for the $60 a year. If you use DoorDash at all for food delivery or pickup. This year and next year. Right, right. So, you know, that's the best. So, so I think, you know, they had a contract or something with DoorDash. And so that's how they wrote it, that it's good through the end of 2021. They, you know, I think, I think it's fair to assume that if they don't

renew that contract pass, then they'll have something else. And if not, then we'll have this conversation again. So I think it's reasonable to just say the best we could do with saying like talking about the perks and everything is to say, here's what the current state of affairs is. Let's sort of assume that's going to be the same going forward. Okay. I'll let you run with that for a minute. All right, go ahead. Okay. So, so anyway, so, so, you know, in my post, I said, okay, well, rebates aren't the same as, as hard cash or as, as taking off the bottom line of the top line of the annual fee. So let's just value them. Right. And I'm going to interject there because if you have the ink business preferred, you can spend $300 in travel if you want, or spend $250 in travel or whatever else you don't have to worry about getting it

rebated because it's in your pocket to start same with the door dash you want to spend 60 bucks on door dash great if you don't don't spend it at door dash so yeah yeah exactly so exactly yeah so so i just valued it in in the post at 85 of face value those two rebates okay um so that seemed pretty conservative to me and And then I said, okay, the difference now between the $95 annual fee and what's left is about $150. And so I said, is there another feature of the Sapphire Reserve that more than makes up for that $150 difference, that it's worth paying that much more because you're getting that feature. Now, there's a

couple of features that I think are quite valuable in the right circumstances, but I didn't use them in the calculation. So one of them is Priority Pass. You know, you get Priority Pass that's good for you and one companion at Priority Pass airline, I mean, hotel, at Priority Pass airport lounges and at airport restaurants that take Priority Pass for you and one guest. And the other is, is the, which we mentioned before the the best in class travel protections. So, you know, I have a post about the ultra premium travel protections where I compared them, all the expensive cards at the end and found that Sapphire Reserve and the Ritz, which is also by Chase, have identical protections and

quite a bit better than any other competition for the most part. So if you value those protections, if you value priority pass, it might be worth that extra $150 to you. But I did not include that in my calculations. What I said was the biggest thing is the ability to essentially cash out your points for one and a half cents each. So a little while ago, Chase came out with this thing that we've talked about a lot on the show, a feature called pay yourself back. And at least this quarter through,

I think it's the end of September. Any grocery charges, home improvement and restaurant, maybe I think grocery, grocery, home improvement, and restaurant maybe? I think grocery and home improvement. Is that all? I think so. Any of those charges on your SEPA reserve bill, you can erase those charges with your points at a value of one and a half cents each.

So you're basically turning your points into cash back. I mean, it's as good as cash back if it's a category of spend that you can spend in easily and frequently. We don't know what's going to happen starting October 1. By every indication, they're going to continue the program, but will they change the categories? Will they make them worse? Just don't know. Anyway, going back to what I sort of, my premise before that we have to go by what we know is the case right now, just sort of assuming that one and a half, the ability to redeem points at one and a half cents. And so I said, okay, how many points would you have to redeem in that way each year to get back more than that $150 difference? So if you redeem your points in that way with a $95 card, you get 1.25 cents value versus 1.5. So I looked at that, that 0.25 cents difference and said, how many points would you

have to redeem for that 0.25 cents difference to be $150 or more to, to make up for that annual fee? And, and I think it was 60,000 points, if I'm remembering right, was the answer. This year, it's substantially less because of the 450 renewal instead of 550. But, you know, so 60,000 points. So to me, it became like a guideline. If you think you're going to tend to redeem more than that many, that many points or more each year. At one and a half cents each. At one and a half cents each.

So that means either with the pay yourself back feature or by booking through Chase and booking travel through Chase with your points. Then I think it's worth keeping the Sapphire Reserve. If you're going to do less than that, then probably Bank Business Preferred is the best way to go. If you really want, though, things like rental car insurance that applies for personal trips, which the Inc. Business Preferred, it's only for business travel, then you might prefer the Sapphire Preferred, which is also $95. But then you don't get 3x travel. You get 2x travel. But that might be a worthwhile trade-off to get some

protections you're more comfortable with using. Yeah, I mean, the Chase Sapphire Preferred, in that case, you're right. If you want travel protections, but you don't want the sticker price of the Sapphire Reserve, then the Sapphire Preferred probably makes more sense. So when I said that I'd take the Ink Business business preferred, I definitely wasn't thinking through the fact that part of my reason for doing that is that I would keep the Ritz card no matter what. And so the Ritz card is going to be the one that I'm going to use for that because that'll give me those protections.

So if you're in that boat where you're like, the Ritz card is a keeper for me because it's got far, I think far more value than the cost of admission, then okay, the Sapphire Reserve's travel protections won't matter as much to you. And so that was the lens I was looking at it through initially, when you put those things on there, I said, Okay, well, there is a little bit more to consider and unpack then, because there were a few readers who commented saying that they were able to make claims for things that were $6,000, $8,000, I think somebody had a $9,700 claim that they needed taken care of with a canceled trip or something, and they were able to get paid back from Chase. So if you're the type of person who books paid travel at that rate, books paid trips

that are $8,000, $9,000 a pop, then absolutely, I think that it's worth the extra $150 a year for the Sapphire Reserve. So I'm going to get that one right out of the way. If you, if you pay that much for, for travel, which you don't have the Ritz card because that would be another option for getting the same productions. Yeah, exactly. And you don't have the Ritz card, then definitely the Sapphire Reserve over the Inc. This is preferred all day long.

If you're not somebody who books trips of that price range, if you're somebody who typically books a trip here and there for a couple hundred bucks in terms of the cost of the flight, maybe a couple hundred more for the hotel, et cetera, and you're just counting on trip delay protection and that sort of thing, then I guess you have to ask yourself, well, how often do you expect to get delayed? Because $150 more per year, if you're not redeeming at one and a half cents each and i mean i've done one claim in the last four years i think right and i made it was for about 500 bucks

so you know kind of a wash almost if that's as many claims as you're gonna you're gonna make obviously you can't predict that so that right try and make the your own decision in terms of what your risk level is but in terms of redeeming the points for one and a half cents each, I got to say right now, it's a great time to redeem your points at one and a half cents each at the grocery store, home improvement store. Those are terrific categories. I have less faith than Greg that it's going to continue to be quite that awesome moving forward. I could see another quarter being things that really don't matter that much or aren't nearly as good because right now, obviously you can redeem that for grocery purchases and home improvement purchases that will really cover a wide range of things because those stores sell gift cards and things

like that. So you can redeem your points for nearly cash or to cover any sort of expense. But that won't necessarily be the case depending on what categories are next. If it's warehouse clubs and you have a Costco or Sam's Club or something nearby, great. But if you don't belong in one of those warehouse clubs, then the one and a half cents each there isn't going to matter. We won't know for a while yet

what that's going to be. So I have trouble valuing a $550 a year card based on, well, maybe it's going to be as good as it is right now without any kind of indication that it is. So I feel like it was, that's a tough one right now. Yes, but come October 1st, maybe not.

And then when you talk about things like the DoorDash credit, I mean, maybe you're right. Maybe that'll continue. But at the same time, from the moment they announced it, it was relatively short term. And I didn't expect that it was going to be something that got renewed and went on beyond then. So maybe you're right, but I'm looking at it long-term here and

saying, is the Sapphire Reserve the long-term king or is it on its last term? And I would say right now I'm going to keep the Sapphire Reserve specifically because of the DoorDash. DoorDash is going to provide enough value for me, I think, that it's going to just barely tip the scales because I'll use that and get my money's worth out of it, so to speak. But if they didn't offer that, if I wasn't getting that out of it, then I feel like I'm at the point where I'm not going to redeem a ton of points at one and a half cents each. I'll do some. I argued that you should probably do a lot right now, one and a half cents each. And so I realized it's a little bit contradictory. But if you're not, if you're like me and you're like, Oh, but I want to hold

on to my points so I can transfer them to partners. And that's your focus that you're going to transfer to partners. Then I think that the one and a half cents each probably isn't going to be super consequential for you. It's a nice backup. And that's the thing to me, the one and a half cents each is a nice backup plan for getting good value out of your points but it's something that i hesitate to put as a a like the plan a which again i argued why we probably all should make it plan a but i also said in that post that i probably wouldn't all right so so i'm just really curious when you're reading my post and you got to the part where i said nick said it's the rational thing to do. It is the rational. It is the rational. I was like picturing you like reading a lot going,

don't use my words against me. I knew you were going to twist that against me. And here's the thing though, too. On the Freedom Unlimited, you mentioned that being such a great everywhere else card. And I disagree. I think that it's a card that because I do manufacturer spending, I'm going to use for some manufacturer spending,

but it would not be my default everywhere else card. It just doesn't provide enough value. Now I like chase points. And sure, if you're going to be chase ecosystem only, of course, that's going to be your everywhere else card. But I don't necessarily think that's a good move because, you know, I look at it and if you've got the, the bank of America premium rewards with platinum honors available to you, then that one and a half cents each is looking kind of expensive. Or the one and a half points per dollar is looking kind of expensive because you're paying well over a penny a point for those points, even if the double cash is your next best bet. Again, you're paying over a penny a point for the Chase points. And when I say,

now that Freedom Unlimited is going to offer threeX at drugstores, you could buy yourself points at cheaper than a penny a point pretty easily. And with Chase offering the 5X on the Chase in cash and lots of fee-free Visa gift card offers at office supply stores, this week Staple had one 5X on up to $1,000 a day. You can print Chase Ultimate Rewards points much cheaper than a penny a point. So I don't get too excited about the Freedom Unlimited anymore, except from the perspective of trying to spread out my spend over a variety of cards.

But that's not the card I pull out. If I have to pay a medical bill or go to the vet or something like that, or I have some other unbonus spend, that's not the card I pull out anymore. It's just not enough return. So I don't necessarily think that that card belongs in the wallet, but you had it in there. So I take it out for that and I say, all right, if you're a transfer person, if you primarily want transfer partners,

I think the Inc. Business Preferred is the way to go. Okay, well, so those are almost two separate um topics so the the freedom unlimited uh well no i i don't disagree with you that there's better everywhere else cards that's true that's absolutely true but we're talking about the ultimate rewards wallet the you know at least that's what we were debating right it was and so so you have to agree that for the ultimate reward it's the best anywhere else card you can have in there it is i mean that's better than having to go to the drugstore and buy gift cards and use i mean not gonna get as many points are you going to redeem for cash back, and whether we'll still be able to do that going forward. So like,

I think you're agreeing with it. If we could forever cash out easily cash out for one and a half cents each um tell me if i'm if i'm right about this so so we're earning so so the 3x categories give us the ability to earn more ultimate rewards than ever before so i think a lot more people than before are gonna be in the position of like, I have more points than I'm going to likely transfer to partners and use that way. So a, rather than keeping those extra points in there doing nothing much better, cash them out at 1.5, put them in a bank, you know, invest them in stocks, that kind of thing and make them work for you. Yeah. I mean, I think that that is definitely sound. I think you're right there. And if you're in that position where you've got more points than you're going to use anytime soon, then like I said

before, you should be cashing them out. I mean, we all should be considering that pretty carefully, even if you're not in the position where you've got so many points, you don't know what to do with it. I feel like I'm going to contradict myself again here, but it's almost something to consider even more now that you can create points even easier than before. I mean, now with 3X drugstore and 3X dining with no annual fees, I mean, it makes a lot of points that way. That's my point. To the extent that cashing out 1.5 is easy, it makes these cards earn 4.5% on those categories.

It makes the 5X categories worth, what, 7.5%? 7.5%, yeah. There's nothing else out there that's comparable, is there? No, but you have to say that 7.5% with the caveat that if you don't value those other benefits to the Sapphire Reserve, it's costing you $150 a year. So it's not exactly a true 7.5%. It depends on how many points you're redeeming at that point as to how close you're going to get to 7.5%. But it's never going to quite be 7.5% because of the fee that you're paying. And when you look at it and you say, okay, I typically do value the $300 travel credit on the Sapphire Reserve, basically face value, because I spent

$300 a year on travel, whether I have that card or not. So that money's going away either way. But obviously, we're all spending a lot less on travel right now. And if you just don't give Chase that $300 in the first place, then you get the chance to choose when and where you want to spend it, and which credit card you want to use in order to, to, to, to pay for that purchase. So, so let me, let me turn things around a little bit. Let me ask you a question. So I think, I think we agreed. It's fair to say the Sapphire reserve is about a $250 a year card. Once you take out those credits, right? So, all right.

Suppose a cashback card came out that costs $250 a year. And for everywhere else spend, it earns 2.25% cashback. For drugstores, restaurants, and travel, it earns 4.5% cashback. And it has rotating categories that where it earns seven and a half percent cash back and it has office supply and telecom and cable and all that seven and a half percent cash back oh by the way it has great travel protections and if you don't want to use the cashback in that way, you could always transfer to partners as well. But would you be excited about that card? I mean, it does sound

decent when you paint the picture that way. It doesn't sound bad. Yeah, it sounds like a pretty, pretty decent card to have. But you know, here's the other thing to consider on this. And as you were you were making your argument a minute ago, this was going through my mind that the other thing to consider on this and as you were you were making your argument a minute ago this was going through my mind that the nice thing about chase is they allow product changes pretty freely between the different cards at least once you had your card open at least a year so another thing to consider in this whole argument is do you need to keep the sapphire reserve all the time i mean do you need to keep it when you're not that's a really good question and yeah and i think the answer if you're not redeeming the points, like if October 1st comes and they're like, well, it's going to be movie theaters and, you know,

something else that like for your one and a half cents each, you know, then that would be, that would be hilarious, especially since, since movie theaters aren't open yet. I picked that example on purpose. So, yeah, I mean, if that, if it's going to be something like that come October 1st, then I would say you don't need a Sapphire Reserve at that point. And so I would consider downgrading if you're around renewal, et cetera,

and upgrading when you're ready to redeem one and a half cents again. You know, keeping in mind that 0.25 isn't bad either. But yeah. Yeah, no, I think that's a great uh thing to keep in mind in general about these cards that like um you know you could bounce around between the sapphire preferred sapphire reserve and even the uh you know one of the chase freedoms um and and you know just move up to the level you need at any given time if it's only an occasional need.

I think that makes a lot of sense. Right. If you're going to book that $10,000 Alaskan cruise in the penthouse balcony suite or whatever, then okay. Upgrade your Sapphire Preferred or one of your freedoms to a Sapphire Reserve in order to be able to book that with great travel protection. But you don't necessarily need to spend $150 a year between now and whenever that day comes in order to someday be able to use the travel protection that you don't necessarily need to spend $150 a year between now and whenever that day comes in order to someday be able to use the travel protection if you're not using it frequently of them or downgrade it to the to the freedom unlimited and book it through the chase portal so you get five extra words right right right nice little windfall there and then you can redeem

them at one and a half cents each at movie theaters when you once you upgrade again right right right right down the road down the road someday do you think there's a limit to how often chase would let you uh you know upgrade and upgrade yes i'm sure that there is some limit but i don't know what it is because i a couple years ago there was that i don't know 3x freedom unlimited offer it was like 3X and uncapped for a while or something. I can't remember all the details, but I had a no fee Sapphire card that I had recently changed to the Freedom Unlimited. And then that offer came out. And so I product changed it to a Freedom card. So I went from the Sapphire to the Freedom Unlimited. And a couple of days later, I went back to the Freedom card and then tried to apply and it wouldn't go through. And then I changed it

back to the Freedom Unlimited a few days after that. after that so you know within the course of a week i think i had three different cards on that line so yeah they didn't they didn't get rid of me if i kept that up week after week maybe they wouldn't like that those were all no non-fee cards those are all no fee cards yeah yeah so so there might be some limits when you're transferring there certainly might be hard with a fee and then trying to transfer back because there's some you know right and you have to keep in mind that if you book you know if you upgrade to the sapphire reserve to book your ten thousand dollar cruise and the cruise is like you know eight months away you're gonna have to keep that as a sapphire reserve until the cruise comes around in order to get the protections right so is that true i i thought so if you

downgrade it you're not gonna get it right i don't know i've been i've been asked this kind of question from from some readers i i don't know the answer so i guess if you pay for travel if you pay for the travel while you had the card does it protect you based on that or do you still have to have the card i don't know it probably says i'm gonna think in my print it must say that your card your account needs to be open and in good standing probably it probably does yeah all right we'll go with yes i think we'll go with yes i imagine so all right so so what's the answer what's the ultimate answer i mean we sort of agreed on some things we do others so the the big question was whether the sephiroth is king for life or is it it's king for right now maybe i don't know i mean king i have such a hard time with

i think i think i don't know i i i think King, I have such a hard time with that. And 550 is, I don't know. I think the answer is we have to wait and see what they do both October 1st with the pay yourself back feature, but also they have to respond to these freedom changes. I mean, they can't just at the bottom level, they have to offer 5X for travel through the travel portal.

That's ridiculous to get better rewards from the no-fee card than this one. But I expect they'll do some other things too. But that being said, I think it's more likely they'll do things soon with the Sapphire Preferred rather than the reserve because the preferred has really been left out of like a lot of the goodies going on and around. And, and so I think, I think the preferred is crying out for a reason to be. Yeah. I mean, it definitely is kind of languishing there with the, without a whole ton of purpose, especially in a world where now 2X is becoming such a standard and one and a half and the freedom unlimited, et cetera. It is definitely kind of in an awkward spot. And I have to think that there's a refresh coming in. So whatever I've said, bashing the Sapphire Reserve

so far or questioning the value of the Sapphire Reserve, I reserve the right to totally take all that back because I imagine that Chase is going to come out with something. And like you said, it'll probably be something affecting the Sapphire preferred first, but base level, they got to add five X travel. They've got it on both. Right. Right. Probably better. I'm thinking. Maybe. Yeah. But the five X is like just the floor of what they need to do. So what do you, I mean, do you think that on the Sapphire preferred, what do you think is likely that they would do?

Do you think it's likely they'll add ancillary benefits like a priority pass or something like that? Or do you think it's more likely that they'll add a bonus category like gas stations or grocery stores or something like that? Yeah, it's interesting. So when I look at the Freedom Unlimited and the new Freedom Flex with these 3X categories,

I don't see how Chase can stay at 2x. So that makes me think that they're thinking of, or they should be thinking of moving the Sapphire Preferred to travel and dining 3x instead of 2x, which then causes a problem for Sapphire Reserve, which is currently 3x for travel and dining. So do they move that to 4x or even 5x? That's what I'm thinking is probably the type of

discussion that's been going on, whether or not they've come up with anything. I don't know. But what about you? That's my guess of where things are headed. Yeah. I mean, I think base level, that's got to be the case that the Sapphire Reserve moves to 4X. You look at the gold, the Amex Gold offers 4X dining with no cap on the dining at only a $250 a year card that comes with $100 airlines incidental credit and some other ancillary stuff, the $10 a month you can use a cheesecake factory or whatever. So I think that to be competitive there, yeah, the Sapphire Reserve has to offer better than 3X at this point. You can get 4X on a cheaper card, or you can get 3X on a fee-free card. You got to offer at least 4X, maybe 5 to compete with the prestige card on the Sapphire Reserve.

But then what do you do with the Sapphire Preferred? Because if you just do 3X travel and dining, it doesn't seem like much of a benefit over those fee-free cards. So I feel like there has to be something coming there. However, I look at it and I say, well, what are they competing against? So the $95 a year market, they're competing against the city premiere the city premiere offers 3x at the grocery store so maybe a grocery bonus because chase has been really light on that they've been like testing waters right the last three months like here's a little temporary grocery bonus for

you we're going to cap it here on this card and there on another card etc i think maybe they've been testing the waters on creating a grocery bonus because they haven't had a grocery card, at least not a consistent one. The Freedom often has a quarter or maybe even two a year where grocery stores are a bonus category. But I think it wouldn't be outlandish to see some sort of a grocery bonus category because then the city premier offers 3X on travel. So 3X on travel, 3X grocery. I feel like Sapphire Preferred probably has to compete with that. They don't need to probably add very many ancillary benefits because nobody else has any on their $95 a year cards.

But I think that from a bonus category perspective, to be competitive, both with themselves and with others, I think they need to add another category. And it's probably got to be a 3X category. Yeah. You know what? I'd be surprised, though, if they go outside of what can be considered travel, though. You know, they've advertised it for so many years as a travel card. So I would guess if they're going to add another category to the mix, as opposed to just moving

travel and dining up to 3X, I'm betting gas. That might be. I think that's not a bad guess. I think that's certainly a decent possibility. And that's another bonus category that the Premier has, I guess, that I left out there, the 3X gas. They'll basically be catching up with where the Premier was before. Well, except for the dining part,

which they just recently got the 3X. Right. But it's where the Premier used to be, 3X for travel, including gas. So if the Sapphire Preferred goes 3X travel, 3X dining, 3X gas, then, yeah, I mean, I'm really curious to see what the Sapphire Reserve is going to do. Me too. But, you know, it seems like good things have to be coming, right? It does seem that way, you know, and it's kind of funny because, you know, it seems like good things have to be coming, right? It does seem that way, you know, and it's, it's kind of funny because,

you know, you look at the economy, obviously the economy is going down or has gone down. Maybe it's recovering now, I guess, but you know, it's been a questionable time economically. Let's put it that way in the last few months. And obviously we talked about the interchange rates getting competed down. So it's very interesting to see this incentive for spending, you know, the issuers are going with here, especially in a time where we've been hearing stories about,

you know, Capital One reducing credit limits and Bank of America shutting down some accounts and business cards being harder to get. It's interesting to see these spending incentives, not only in terms of these new cards that we're talking about, but also you've got the Marriott cards offering, 10X at gas stations and 10X at restaurants and all these different temporary bonuses to encourage people to spend more money that presumably they might not have. And it's kind of an interesting time.

Yeah, it is. I would love to read a report maybe after the fact to analyze this to see whether, was this helpful for the economy? All these things to try to get people out and to the businesses that have been suffering. Hopefully it is. I don't know, but certainly for those of us who were doing that spend anyway, getting taken advantage of these big bonuses is fantastic. Yeah, it certainly is. It certainly is. Yeah. I've

been thrilled with it. I've been maxing out my Marriott cards when I mentioned that and the 10X, I talked about how I was putting some money away for college for my soon to be born son. And so I was able to buy gift to college cards because there's a gas station chain in New York state that sells those. So if you're in upstate New York, Cumberland farms will say up to 2,500 at a pop. So just so you know, you'll break the register if you try to go more than 2,500. So just, just to ask about that. So you're, you're, you're saving up for your second child's education. Your first child has to work his way through himself, right? Right. I mean, yeah, he's got to put in some hours when I'm out on paternity leave,

he's going to have to earn his keep and make sure that the money keeps coming in. So. That's right. We're counting on him, you know, so he's going to be, he's going have to earn his keep and make sure that the money keeps coming in so that's right we're counting on him you know so he's gonna be he's gonna be doing all the um you know uh quick deals and all the credit card updates and everything so we'll see what comes out the other end of there how old is he now about two uh two two and a half yeah two and a half okay yeah that's that's good that'sushing up on three in a few months. Yeah, he can handle it. He's a very responsible three-year-old, so, or two and a half year old. So, all right.

I think that brings me then to the question of the week, right? Unless you had more on that. No, that sounds good. Okay. So the question of the week actually is going to be kind of, so every now and then I try and throw you different types of questions. So a lot of times I enjoy picking a question of the week that doesn't have a really clear answer or isn't very easy to answer or we don't necessarily know the answer to, but this week I'm going to change it up and I'm going to give you a really softball question.

But the reason I'm giving you this question is because I've been asked this question at least a half a dozen times, maybe a dozen. And so I figure if people keep asking the question, it's because not everybody knows the answer. And so it's a good one to take a look at. I have not had a multiple choice question. That's kind of a relief. So it's going to be even easier than that. It's going to be like a yes or no. It's a 50-50, right? So a number of people have asked me.

Right now, the Freedom Unlimited and soon to be this Freedom Flex, the welcome offer is 20,000 points after $500 spend. And then they also carry 5X grocery for the first year on up to 12,000 spent. Now, we talked just a few minutes ago about how it's really easy to product change with Chase. You're going to be able to product change to this Freedom Flex if you've got a Freedom or a Freedom Unlimited or even a Sapphire card right now. You'll be able to product change to the Freedom Flex if you want that card or to the Freedom Unlimited. And over and over and over again,

I've gotten questions from readers asking, if you product change to either the Freedom Unlimited or the Freedom Flex, will you get the 5X grocery for a year? So the easy answer is no. You have to think of that 5X grocery as being like part of the signup bonus. Like it's because you're getting the card new as a new signup. You don't get the points part of the signup bonus when you product change.

You also don't get the 5X grocery because of a product change. That said, it's a little more complicated than that because what if someone recently signed up for one of the Freedom Cards so they have that 5x offer on their card and then they product change? Doctor of Credit asked Chase what would happen in that case. They were told you still get to keep your 5x as long as you would have, you know, based on the original terms. So that's good news for anyone who either signs up in time while the Freedom Visa is still available or signs up for the Freedom Unlimited

and decides to product change over. There you go. So you got to sign up new in order to get the 5X grocery for the year. Any kind of a temporary bonus like that that's going to be for the first year. Anything that's in the first year is I won't, I think in any case, I think it's pretty universal going to be part of the welcome bonus. That's only available for people who apply

new. Now, my first thought, when I thought about this was that you don't get a bonus for product changing generally. And that almost seemed like a universal statement to me that when you product change, you don't get any sort of a bonus. You just get whatever the long-term benefits of that card is. You don't get any temporary stuff. But I realized as I thought that sentence in my head,

I said, well, that's not really true because Amex frequently offers upgrade bonuses where you upgrade to a different card and you get a bonus. It's often as good as the the initial sign up bonus that you might be able to right so get a signing up new and then also chase has offered bonuses like for upgrading your marriott your old marriott to the new marriott or your old ihg they've offered really horrible bonuses like 5 000 ihg points if you want to upgrade to the

newer one so i guess chase has also offered some bonuses for product changing. So my universal statement, I realized immediately was wrong that it's not the case that you never get any kind of a bonus when your product change, but generally speaking, most of the time, if your product changes, you're not going to get any kind of a bonus. Right, right. Absolutely true. Yeah. All right. So that was our question of the week. That brings us to the end. If you've been listening along, if you're new and you'd like to get on our email list and join our Facebook group and follow us on Twitter and all those fun things, you can go to thefrequentmiler.com slash subscribe. Again, that's thefrequentmiler.com slash subscribe to get on all of our various lists.

And then also, if you are in need of a credit card intervention, we have been running a series called Card Talk, and you can go to thefrequentmiler.com slash card talk if you're kind of interested in this idea of having a conversation about the cards in your wallet and determining which ones you should get rid of, which ones you should keep, or which new ones you should open. We are taking volunteers for Card Talk.

We have had a number of submissions, so we're working on scheduling that out a little bit, but of course my schedule is up in the air a little bit, but of course my, my schedule is up a little up in the air a little bit because I am expecting to be out on maternity leave any moment now. So, so we'll see, you know, when that happens, it might take us a lot of work through the list, but, but feel free to submit and we'll, you know, get around to as many people as we can when we get there. And also don't forget if you're, if you're listening to this through a podcast platform, please hit the review section and give us a review. And same with YouTube.

Like this program and subscribe to our channel if you haven't already. Please do. Leave a little comment. Let us know what you think. Ask questions. Leave feedback, et cetera, et cetera. We appreciate that. We take a look at it.

So thank you very much for all that. And we will see you guys again next week. All right. We appreciate that. We take a look at it. So thank you very much for all that. And we will see you guys again next week. All right. Bye everyone.