Fresh Air - Best Of: 'Book of Mormon' turns 15 / Actor Clarke Peters

Episode Date: June 13, 2026

Fifteen years after ‘The Book of Mormon’ made its Broadway debut, original cast members Andrew Rannells and Josh Gad once again took the stage as Mormon missionaries — this time at the 2026 Tony Awards. The musical is a satirical — sometimes affectionate, sometimes offensive — look at Mormonism and youthful naïveté. Rannells and Gad spoke with Terry Gross about their first impressions of the show, how their voices have changed, and how the songs in 'The Book of Mormon' are a tribute to musical theater.Also, Clarke Peters played Det. Lester Freamon in ‘The Wire’ and now plays a retiree in the supernatural thriller ‘The Boroughs.’ He spoke to Terry Gross about both series, and about his continued work as an actor. “I picked this profession so that I would have longevity, so that I could still be acting at 100, if it comes to it,” he says. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

From W. H. Y. Y. Y. Y. in Philadelphia, I'm Terry Gross with Fresh Air Weekend. The Book of Mormon is celebrating its 15th year on Broadway. We'll hear from two of the original stars, Josh Gad and Andrew Reynolds. The show is beloved and or offensive, which isn't surprising, considering it was co-created by Matt Stone and Trey Parker, the creators of South Park. Gad remembers the first time he heard the show's song, Hasadiga I Buoy. I called my agent. at the time. And I said, I don't think I can do this show. And he said, why? And I said, because I don't want to get killed. Later, actor Clark Peters, whose breakout role was in the HBO series The Wire

as police detective Lester Freeman. He co-starred as a Vietnam vet and Spike Lee's DeFive Bloods and co-stars in the new series The Burrows. That's coming up on Fresh Air Weekend. This is Fresh Air Weekend. I'm Terry Gross. The Book of Mormon is celebrating its 15th anniversary on Broadway. It received nine tonies, including Best Musical and Best Score. My guests were stars of the original Broadway cast. This weekend marks the end of their week of cameo appearances in every show as part of the anniversary celebration.

The Book of Mormon revolves around two young Mormon men who are very excited that they've reached the age where they're assigned to a mission. They're hoping to be sent to an exciting, beautiful place, but they're assigned to Uganda, which is dealing with the AIDS epidemic war and famine. The show is a satirical, but kind of affectionate, but could also be considered kind of offensive, look at Mormon beliefs and the naivte of some young men. It was created and written by Trey Parker and Matt Stone, the creators of South Park, along with Robert Lopez, who co-wrote the songs for Frozen and Avenue Q.

A 15th anniversary remastered edition of the original Book of Mormon Castors, recording, along with new liner notes and photos, will be released later this month. Let's start with the opening song, Hello, as the young missionaries are being trained on how to go door-to-door proselytizing. We'll hear the opening of the song featuring Rannels and the conclusion of the song featuring Josh Gad. Hello, my name is Elder Price, and I would like to share with you the most amazing book. Hello, my name is Elder Price. Hello, my name is Elder Price. Grant. It's a book about America a long, long time ago. It has. So many awesome parts. You simply won't believe how much this book can change your life. Hello. Hello, would you like to change religions? Have a free book written by Jesus.

No, no, Elder Cunningham. That's not how we do it. You're making things up again. Just stick to the approved dialogue. Elder, show it. Hello. Hello. Hello. Like to share with you this book of Jesus Christ. Hello. Josh Gad, Andrew Reynolds. Welcome back to Fresh Air. Congratulations on the 15th anniversary. Thank you.

Thanks for having us back. I'm delighted to have you here. I love that song. I think it's a great opening to the show. I'm wondering, since it's all about two missionaries training to go door to door, did you have people coming to your door when you were growing up, who were Mormons trying to convert you? I grew up in Omaha, Nebraska, and there is a pretty large Mormon population there,

as well as a large Jehovah's Witness population. So we did. But I grew up extremely Catholic. And not that we weren't kind to these young people when they came to the door, but it was, I think it was something that we were definitely warned about. that if my mother saw these people like coming up the steps should be like, oh boy, here they come. Did you ever let them in?

Oh, no. Did you try to convert them? No, we didn't go far either. I think she was just like, oh, we're Catholic and, you know, but thanks for stopping by. And, Josh, what about you? I grew up in South Florida, and Hollywood, Florida did not have many Mormons

from what I remember knocking on our door. It was only sort of later, going into the process of Book of Mormon, I actually did not know a lot about the Mormon church. I had to sort of research a lot about it. Terry, I do just very quickly, when we were in rehearsals for the workshop, I decided that I should be a real, like a good little actor, and I should go to the Mormon temple. I remember this. And I should meet with some Mormon missionary. So I got myself ensnared in a very strange relationship with these two young men who I met with a handful of times and they were so excited that someone wanted to talk to them and that I solicited them. And then they said, can we come to your home?

And I lived with my boyfriend at the time. And the apartment was like, it was pretty clear two gay men lived there. I mean, it was like mid-century off the charts. You know what I'm saying? And I, so I was like, you know what, let's let them come in. So these two Mormon missionaries came over and there's like immediately, there's like a picture of my boyfriend and I like on the mantle. And so I had to explain to them that I was like, I'm actually in a musical about the Mormon church. And they were sort of shocked.

But then it was so helpful because they really opened up to me about how scary and disappointing it was. to be a missionary at times, and especially being a missionary at New York City. They were like, no one will speak to us. People are very mean to us. And then I was like, well, where are you hanging out? And they're like, well, they send us to Times Square. And I was like, well, you've got to get out of Times Square.

You cannot be hanging out in Times Square, boys. How have your voices changed in the past 15 years? You've sung a lot. You've done a lot. You're older. I was insulted yesterday when our producer came up to me and said, You sound so much better than you did back when you first did it. Really?

Yes. And I was like, what? Did I really not sound good when I first did you? No, you sounded great. You can tell me now, Andrew. No, you sounded fantastic. Well, you don't know how to, is that a compliment or an insult? Well, that's what I'm wondering.

I think you sound the same. I mean, look, our voices are different. 15 years, you know, there's a lot of wear and tear. You know, some of it is muscle memory. I would say some of it comes back. I got to perform this number, I believe, on Stephen Colbert show, that was the number that I sang on the Tony Awards. It sounded fantastic. Well, that's very nice.

But that weirdly, as we were rehearsing it, like, it was still somewhere, like, lodged in my voice. And I think you're having a similar... Same thing. When I found out I was doing this, I played the album in the car, and I started to sing along. And some of those high notes, I just was like, oh, my God, I can't... How am I going to hit these? And I actually asked them to lower it, and they laughed and said no. And then I started to sort of do it on my feet.

And just like you said, something clicks and it all sort of like it's like riding a bike. It's just sort of in there somewhere. Now the physical side of it, Terry, is a little different. Physically doing some of these numbers, that's where the aging process really catches up to you. You mean like you can't sing as much? Well, you can't, I can't dance as much as I used to. The singing part is a little easier to control. The physical, the knees, the getting up and down off the ground, that's all a little bit different.

Although you're lucky. You don't have to do any of the big dance numbers. That's not a coincidence. I said no to all of those. Why didn't I say no to that? They were like, do you want to do this big dance number? And I said, no, thank you. When you first read the book for the book of Mormon and then heard the songs,

What was her reaction? Because depending on who you are, it's hilarious or incredibly offensive. You know, the script changed so heavily. And I don't know what this says about me that I remember reading it when I was auditioning for the show and not being phased by any of it. And just sort of like, okay, that sounds great. And then because I'm playing this Mormon missionary who is shocked. by all of these things that are being said. So it was very easy to sort of, you know, to play that part because a lot of it is sort of shocking and is not your typical musical theater fair. I heard the humor in it and I felt very confident that people were going to think it was funny. I certainly didn't think it would be still running on Broadway after 15 years and would have toured to Salt Lake City. I didn't think that they would have done that.

But it did. I was involved from the very first workshop, and I remember getting a demo, and the first song I heard, I laughed my butt off. It was, hello, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. The second song was, two by two, we're marching door to door,

and these songs were just so fun. And then I got to a song called Hasediga Ibawhi. And at that point, I called my agent at the time, and I said, I don't think I can do this show. And he said, why? And I said, because I don't want to get killed. So, you know, with Hase Diga Ibuwe, it's like Hakuna Matata from the Lion King. And, you know, a general in Uganda sings it.

And he's saying, you know, like when things are really bad, there's famine, there's war, everybody has AIDS. But when we think about that, we lift our hands to the sky and we sing Haseidiq. Igbaway. And you're expecting that that's going to be a really inspirational phrase, but what that really means is, you know, it's an expletive addressed to God. And that, there are so many people who will never get past that, I'm sure. And Trey Parker and Matt Stone, the creators of the show, along with Robert Lopez, when I interviewed them, they said, that's the point where you know, like who's in and who is out. That is true.

That is true. I guess my answer would be I'm shocked 15 years later at how many people are in. Well, but I think it speaks to people who are having, you know, there are horrible things that are happening around them, horrible things that are happening to them. And it speaks to this fear of the absence of God in those moments. So I think Trey and Matt and Bobby have really. written something that I think really pulls from like a deep truth that a lot or a deep fear that people have which is is there a god where has god gone um and it's it's set to this really sort of playful animated music but the question is is there a god in this in this place my guests are

Andrew rannels and Josh gad they starred in the original cast of the book of Mormon this weekend marks the end of their week of cameo performances in the show. Last Sunday, they performed at the Tonys. We'll hear more of our conversation after a break. This is Fresh Air Weekend. So let's hear some music. I want to start with I Believe. And that's like your big showpiece, Andrew. And so I want you to describe the context of the song. The context of the song, I mean, Bobby Lopez has been very open about it. It was very much inspired by the song, I have confidence from The Sound of Music, that it is its Elder Price sort of building. Your character.

Elder Price sort of building himself up to go back out and sort of reaffirm his faith. And he's going to double down on this and he's going to go and try to convert these people in Uganda. after, you know, he arrives and nothing is going the way he wants it to or the way he hoped it would and he feels very beaten down. But then he has this moment where he decides, I can do this. I can do this and I'm going to start with the village warlord. That's going to be my guy. And I'm going to start with that guy. And if I can convert him, then everybody else will fall into place. And so most of the song is him building himself up to do this. So let's hear Andrew Reynolds from the original cast recording of the Book of Mormon singing,

I believe. I've always long to help the needy to do the things I never dared. This was the time for me to step up. So then why was I so scared? A warlord who shoots people in the face. What's so scary about that? I must trust that my Lord is mightier and always has my back. Now I must be completely devout.

I can't have even one shred of doubt. I believe that the Lord God created the universe. I believe that he said his only son to die for my sins. And I use built boats and sailed to America. You cannot just believe partway. You have to believe in it all. My problem was doubting the Lord's will instead of standing tall. I can't allow myself to have any doubt.

It's time to set my worries free. Time to show the world what Elder Price is about and share the power inside of... So that was Andrew Ranals from the original cast recording of the Book of Mormon singing, I believe. There's some really high notes in that. Yeah. And I know one night you lost your voice right before singing it and you managed to get through the song. That happened many times. But you do a show eight times a week for over a year.

You lost your voice on stage many times? I mean, yeah, over the course of my career, that's something that happens. I mean, not just in the Book of Mormon, but in other shows. Like you learn to sing through sickness and you learn to sing through, I mean, there are nights where there are certain notes missing in your voice all of a sudden, and you don't find out until you're on stage in front of 1,200 people, and you're like, oh, boy. And you just have to figure out a way to sing around it.

But it was, you know, after previews, after opening, after the Tony Awards, I hadn't missed any performances. And, you know, I started my career as a replacement as an understudy. I just, I was not accustomed to the idea that I could call out. out of a show, and I probably shouldn't have done the show that night, but I remember it was like a couple weeks after the Tony Awards, and I sang this duet that Josh and I sang called You and Me, but mostly me, and it was kind of a disaster, but I just continued. I just continued with the show, and I was like, I'm going to try to make this work. It was actually remarkable to watch. But then by the, I don't know, I pulled that very deep out of my soul, and I got through. I believe somehow and like sang the whole thing. And I amazed myself that I could do it. And then I got to another song that's called Orlando.

I don't know if you remember this, Josh. And it's supposed to end with a little falsetto thing where I say, And I'll never go back to. And I'm supposed to go, you. And instead I went, never go back to you. And the curtain flew up and all the missionaries come out and everyone was laughing. Then after the bowes that night, I walked off stage and I remember Karen Moore, our stage manager, was standing there. And I burst into tears and I said, I have to, I have to miss a show.

And she said, you're allowed to miss a show. And I just like cried and cried about it. It was so, yeah, it had never occurred to me. I sometimes get laryngy. when I get a cold. Sure. And I had laryngitis just a few weeks ago. And I always say to myself, your voice will come back.

But there's a little part of my brain saying, what if it doesn't? Absolutely. Do you go through that? Absolutely. Or when your voice is low and all of a sudden you sound like Kathleen Turner and you're like, will it always sound like this? Do you remember when I had laryngitis opening night of Gutenberg? Yes.

Josh got very sick when we did Gutenberg. And we call it Dr. footlights on Broadway, you can sound terrible, and then all of a sudden you get on stage. And something adrenaline happens. And Josh got through this whole two-person show that we did with a lot of music in it. And you just did it. There was no... There was no option.

There was no option. Opening night, two-person show, not many options. Well, Josh, let's hear your big number in the show. And this is Man Up. Do you want to explain the context? Yeah, so, you know, for all of Act 1, Cunningham is a follower, self-described follower. And he really looks to... A follower, yeah, I mean, you're like...

Of Elder Price. And he's the lead. And he actually, you know, there's a duet with the two of them called You and Me, but mostly me, where Elder Price sings about the fact that this is really his journey. and Elder Cunningham can be a sidekick on that journey. He can, you know, have a small little part of that journey, but he just basically needs to stay out of Price's way and follow. And Elder Cunningham is very happy to do that

because he's never had somebody who will actually not leave and abandon him. And then something happens over the course of the first act. and Cunningham finds that he's been abandoned again, but for the first time in his life, he has somebody in the form of this character, Nabalungi, who's one of the villagers, and she basically tells him, hey, why don't you take the mantle?

Why don't you show us the way forward? And this sparks a light bulb moment in Cunningham, And he decides that for the first time in his life, he has an opportunity to take the reins to step from the role of sidekick into the role of the main star. And so this song is that sort of culmination of that journey. Let's listen to it. What did Jesus do when they sentenced him to die? Did he try to run away? Did he just break down and cry?

No Jesus dug down deep, knowing what he had to do. When faced with his own death, Jesus knew that he had to. Man up, he had to man up. So he crawled up on that cross and he stuck it out. And he manned up. Christ, manned up. and taught us all what we're about. Now it's up to me and it's time to man up.

Jesus had his time and now it's fine to man up. Just like it. So, Josh, do you hear a little bit of footloose in that song? I've never thought about that until now. Yeah, it's definitely, well, it's got a very 80s quality to it. I remember from the very first word. that song existed. And actually, the very first workshop we did,

Trey Matt and Bobby had not written any of Act II. So the show just literally ended with Man Up, but it wasn't an ensemble. It was just me. And it ended with me basically being like, man up. And that was it. And they were like, we went to black.

And so it evolved into what it evolved into. But, you know, the end. influences of each of these songs, including Man Up, comes from a place of absolute weird devotion to musical theater on the part of Trey Parker and Matt Stone. Obviously, Bobby Lopez comes from that world. But when you look at Trey and Matt, the first thing you think of is not necessarily like musical theater acumen. And these are two guys that people forget when they wrote South Park bigger, longer on cut, the feature film adaptation of the Comedy Central show. They got a letter from Stephen Sondheim, who's probably the most acclaimed composer and lyricist

of the 20th century. And he basically said, this is one of the top 10 most brilliantly realized musicals he's ever seen. And I really do think that the reason part of the reason the show endures is because each one of these songs is instantaneously hummable. Each one of these songs, you say footloose in the case of man up, but each one of these songs reminds you of something, but it's never pastiche. It's never sort of making fun of a genre. It is fully embracing it and earning its space. It has been wonderful to speak to you both. Thank you so much for coming back to our show.

Oh, my gosh. Thank you for having us. You're the best. Thank you for keeping us on track. You know, most interviewers don't have that in them to deal with Josh and I together. We were very disciplined today. We're very disciplined. Well, thank you for that.

We took this very seriously. Very seriously. We're huge fans of yours and you are. Thank you. And I have yours. It's a real honor to be back here. So thank you. Josh Gad and Andrew.

Andrew Rannels starred in the original cast of The Book of Mormon, which is now celebrating its 15th anniversary on Broadway. So many of us became aware of what a great actor Clark Peters is from his role in one of the best TV series ever made, HBO's The Wire. He played police detective Lester Freeman, who helped track down the drug dealers the detectors were looking for through his research and his analysis of wiretaps. The series was co-created by David Simon, who also co-created the HBO series Tramay, set in New Orleans shortly after Hurricane Katrina. Peters co-starred in that, too, as a Mardi Gras Indian chief who returns to his damaged home and tries to rebuild his life. In Spike Lee's film to Five Bloods, he was one of the four Vietnam vets who returns to Vietnam decades after the war. Now he's one of the stars of the Netflix series The Burroughs. Clark plays one of the residents in a retirement community that promises an almost utopian chapter of your life.

But some of the residents start dying, while others start experiencing some very disturbing, inexplicable encounters and visions. Something's going on, and it seems to be something supernatural. Clark Peters grew up in Englewood, New Jersey, but moved to Europe in the 70s and settled in London where he continues to live and is speaking to us from. He's been in London stage productions of the musicals Guys and Dolls, Porgy and Bess, and Chicago, as well as dramas. He co-wrote and co-starred in the original production of the musical Five Guys Name Mo, which was first staged in London. It moved to Broadway, where it was also a big hit. Clark Peters, welcome to fresh air. It's such a pleasure to have you.

Thank you. That was a lovely introduction. I did all that? You did a lot more than that, but I figured let me keep my intro short. so we have more time to actually talk. I could have gone on. I left out a lot of series and movies. So let's get to the boroughs.

So the cast is largely in their 60s and 70s, because it's set in a retirement community. You yourself, you know, as Clark Peters, you're in your mid-70s. What kind of roles do you think you would have been offered at this age when you started professionally, acting professionally in the 1970s? Well, I picked this,

profession so that I would have longevity. I'd say that I could still be acting at a hundred if it comes to it. But starting out I always played older people. So in driving Miss Daisy,

for example, with Dame Wendy Hiller, I think I was in my late 30s playing Hoke, who was well up into his 80s, and I looked at a diary that I'd written, and And on one page it was, I'm tired of playing old guys because there's no future in it. But I'm still here playing old guys.

What appealed to you about the role on the boroughs? To tell you, the truth, honestly, I didn't want to do the burrows because someone had likened it to stranger things, which I hadn't seen before this offer came through. And what I didn't want to be doing was acting as I'm chasing monsters until I'm 80 years old. But then I read the script and I thought, oh, I can resonate with this journey, with the quest that art is on. And then I looked at the cast and I thought, oh, there's just no way I can say no to this. There are roles for older people where, especially sometimes when the cast is all about older people, where I sense something condescending. They're either like, oh, it's so cute, they're on an adventure, you know. Oh, it's so cute.

They're still walking. Oh, it's so cute. They're still breathing. They're still breathing. Oh, it's so cute. They've fallen in love. Do you get offered roles like that and what do you do? Yes, I try to let people know that just because we live in a society where we take the elderly and we hide them away doesn't mean that they're not valued or that they have something to offer.

And I like to at least have that conversation, you know, that the elderly remember the past, you know, and if you want to move forward, you better talk to some. some older people, you know, and yes, we do fall in love, and yes, we do have adventures. And there are still things to discover even at this age. I'm not going to slow down just because I'm a septuagenarian. That just does not make sense. That's the furthest from my mind and hopefully from my body. You know, so finding roles that are like the boroughs, you know, where there's a group of people who are the same age having an adventure. I like that. Otherwise, you know, I've been somebody's dad, somebody's grandfather.

You know, I'd just like to be somebody's brother, somebody's lover, you know, and just carry on as life is, as it really is. Clark Peters is one of the stars of the new Netflix series The Burroughs. We'll hear more of our conversation after a break. I'm Terry Gross, and this is Fresh Air. weekend. I hope you're not tired talking about the wire, but it is one of the best TV series ever made, maybe the best, and you were one of the stars. So can we talk about that just a little? Sure. You can talk about it a lot. Thank you. So you played police detective Lester Freeman,

and you're the detective who finds clues through like online research and files through contacts, wiretaps, and you can put two and two together and synthesize the clues that you found into some kind of path. But you start off in the series working the pawn shop beat. And I want to play a scene from early on in the first season. You've just found an important clue that no one else on the investigation has been able to find identifying who Avon Barksdale is. Yes.

And so he's one of the two major drug dealers in the series. So here's a scene where Detective Jimmy McNulty comes to see you in your office. He's impressed with the work you've done, but when he walks in, he finds you putting together miniature models of furniture. And McNulty's played by Dominic West, and he speaks first. So you're a police after all. You know what you're doing, but you ain't been doing it. How long you've been in the pawn shop unit? 13 years and four months.

13 years? And four months. I've got to ask you. What exactly does a police officer assigned to the pawn shop unit do? You can take reports from registered porn shops and all items valued over $50. Then you make an index card for that item. Then you file that index card. If someone wants to find out if something stolen has been pawned, we look to see if we have an index card. If we do, we do. If we don't, we don't.

You did that for 13 years? And four months. Why'd you ask out of homicide? Well, no ask about it. You got the boot? Uh-huh. What'd you do to piss them off? Police work.

I think I need to buy you a drink. you would drink. Just one. I heard you say as we were listening to that four months, just one. You remember the lines from that? I remember the scene.

Yes. This was one of your first scenes, right? Yeah, yeah. Is that also why you remember it? No, I didn't remember it until we started to hear it. Oh, and then it came back to you. And then it came back to me, yes, yeah.

I'm not one of those is that holds on to the stuff. I'm amazed, you know, when Ian McClellan, for example, will all of a sudden, out of nowhere, start reciting reams of Shakespeare that is appropriate to a particular moment that we're living today. I don't have that kind of mind. but when I hear when I hear something like that it's like playing music you know what key you're playing

and you figure I remember this melody so you pick it up from there Is Lester the role you auditioned for? Did I audition for Lester? No, I don't think I did but I was quite happy to land in Lester lap, so to speak. He's the guy I want to be when I grow up. Because he does do police work.

He doesn't have access to the internet. It was old-fashioned research, and you went through volumes of tomes of information, whether it was banking or whether it was in this particular instance real estate records and then having to cross-reference that. You know, my mind likes that kind of agility. You know, and I liked that being applied in Lester's life. Did you only know the scenes you were in, or did you also get to see what was happening behind the scenes in city politics and, you know, among the drug dealers and the corner,

the corner boys and did you get to see their scenes or did you just know what you would know as your character? No, back then, you know, we would get the whole episode and you would read the whole episode. Nowadays, you know, you get a scene, you have no idea the context of the scene and you're asked to audition. I can't do that. I refuse to do that. I think that that really makes our job as actors very difficult. When we have the whole story, then we can see how we fit into that story and how we can either enhance that story, sell it or whatever. At the end of the day, the star of any story is the story you're telling. It's not the person, you know, whose name is above the title. And when that becomes more important,

than the story that we're telling, you know, then we just, we as actors, just become commodities. You know, I push back against that. I really do. And as far as, like, reading every episode, I couldn't wait until the next episodes came. And I was always looking for that moment that said, Kima may be saying something to McNulty, like, did you hear what happened to Freeman? He caught one while he's pumping gas, you know. I never expected to be there that long, you know. But, uh, Thank the Lord I was. What did you think of the police when you were growing up? And did playing a police detective give you an empathy for police that you maybe didn't feel before?

I grew up with great respect for the police because in Anglewood, New Jersey. Anglewood, New Jersey. We knew the police. We went to school with their children. They knew our parents. You know, and so it was almost something that you made. wanted to aspire to. Going through the 60s and 70s, I lost total respect for the police because of their abuse

of power. I don't have a lot of respect for them now for that same reason. Yet, for those who are walking that beats and who are trying to do the right thing, I have the greatest respect for. And I know that we can be in a society that is policed in the proper way where the community as well is part of the health of that community with the police. I know that it took you years to actually watch the wire. So my question is, what's wrong with you? Work.

I never had time to slow down long enough to watch it. And there's nothing wrong now, now that I've seen it, well done. Were you surprised at how good it was? Yeah, I was. I was. I actually binge watched all five seasons. I had a double knee replacements, and I was recuperating. And I thought, you know, I've only seen the first two episodes of each season,

because that's what they would show before we finish shooting, and then I'd come back to England. It wasn't being shown in England. and I would start work until the next season of shooting. So I never got a chance to watch the whole season, you know. But then when I was sitting there with this ice pack on both of my knees, I just binge to watch. I thought, this is really good.

I think I may even watch it twice, you know, just to really get the nuances of different people's performances, but also the information that's being imparted concerning our society. society. You know, that I found very, very insightful. Yeah, agreed. So you settled first in Paris and then you moved to England, largely because of England's great reputation for great theater. And you got roles there. You even got a role in hair, which you had auditioned for several times in New York and never got. So what's your theory about why you were getting more roles in England on the stage than you got in New York?

First of all, my career began in England. My first professional job was in England with the Watford Rep, Repatory Company doing guys and dolls. That's such a great show. The songs are so good. And you played Sky Masterson, right? I did, yes, three times. There and then twice with the National Theater. How great is that? So you got to sing Luck Be a Lady, and...

I've never been in love before. What a great duet. Yeah. And also, the best song in that is My Time of Day. It's a dark time. You are so right, and it's not in the movie. Yes, that's right, because he couldn't sing it. Well, it's got unusual intervals.

Was it hard for you to sing? Do you want to do a few bars of it? It's such a great song. My time of day is the dark time. A couple of deals before dawn. When the street belongs to the cop And the janitor with a mop And the grocery clerks are all gone.

And the smell of the rain-washed pavement Comes up clean and fresh and cold. and the street lamp light fills the gutters with gold. That's my time of day. My time of day. And you're the only doll I ever wanted to share it with me.

I was singing the wrong key, but... It was still lovely, though. God, what a great song, and pleasure to hear you sing it. You have a pretty big range, right? That was like really deep at the end. Yeah. I mean, down low in the keyboard.

I'm a bass baritone with tenor tendencies. That's what I like to say. That sounds dangerous. You know, as it came out, my mouth, I thought, yes, that's probably the wrong way to put it. So did that make you flexible in what kind of singing parts you got, that you had like the bass and the tenor tendencies? Yes, yes. By the time we got to poor game. and porgy and best.

That's in my middle range. Were you crown or porgy? I was porgy. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah. I loved that. Well, Bessie, who is my woman now? It's beautiful.

I'm not going to sing that one, Terry. That's a hard one. How is being black in London different from being black in New York or other places that you'd been to in the U.S. Let's go back to why I was back, why I came to England. I can address that particular question through theater. Okay. What England had to offer, the way I feel I was successful in England was, first of all, because I was an American.

Secondly, because I was a black American, and because the culture of America concerning entertainers in theater and in musicals is something that is already part of our culture, of the American culture. In England, people of color here, coming from the Caribbean or coming from Africa, do not have that same sensibility in theater. particularly at that particular point in time in musicals. So it was, to a large degree, it was easier for me than my Caribbean or African counterpart to get the same roles. Do you understand what I'm saying? I understand exactly what you're saying. Yeah, I don't think musicals are like a big tradition in Jamaica. No.

Neither are they in England. but a pantomime is, yes, that's there. Musicals are big in England. Yes, they are now. Now they are. They weren't then? Well, they weren't, not for people of color. Oh, I see what you're saying.

Yes, not for people of color at all. And because the dynamic, the political dynamic had to change to a large degree, I think that I was here to help facilitate that change or that acceptance. It was a musical called Bubbling Brown Sugar that came in 1978, I think, to London. It was a huge, huge success. A cast of, I think, about 38, 38 black dancers, singers, and three white dancers and singers. And the story is basically, we take them on a tour of what. Harlem was like during the Renaissance and during the heyday of Harlem, you know.

And so it was a kind of show that you had to act, sing, dance, you know, do comedy, everything. And it's the first time, I think, that that generation had been introduced to this quality of performance, particularly by a black company. What songs did you sing in Bubbling Brown Sugar? I sang, um, sophisticated ladies. Yes. I sang, um. The Ellington's?

George. Yeah, the Ellington. Gosh, yes. That also has some unusual intervals on it. Absolutely. I get them, darling. I get them, believe me. A few bars?

They say, Into your early life romance came And in this heart of yours Burnt a flame A flame that flickered one day And died away That's really nice. I would have thought that Lester Freeman could sing like that.

Oh, that's cute. You also had a small background vocal part in the 1977 hit Boogie Nights by Heat Wave. Which part is you? The bass part? Got to keep on dancing, keep on dancing. That part. You know, you're very sneaky there, Terry. Come on.

I got your number. But even before that, there's a better one. Joan Armour Trading had a hit with a song called Love and Affection. And you're on that too. Yes, that was the first. That was 76, that one. And your part is? Oh, give me a lover.

So why don't we hear that track and you singing? based on it. With friends I still feel so insecure be the light. Just take my hand. No conversation. No way. Good night.

We'll give me a lot. Just sing me love and love someone this time with a little dedication. Sing it, sing it, sing it. You know that's what I'm like. As my guest, Clark Peters, singing the bass part on Joan Armitrading's love and affection. Clark Peters, I have so enjoyed talking with you and hearing you sing. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Thank you, Terry. We'll catch you the next time around, eh? Yes. All right. Be well. And you. Clark Peters is one of the stars of the new Netflix series. the Burrows. Fresh Air Weekend is produced by Teresa Madden. Fresh Air's executive producer is Sam Brigger.

Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our co-host is Tanya Mosley. I'm Terry Gross.