Fresh Air - Best Of: David Byrne's Xmas Playlist / Nicolas Cage

Episode Date: December 23, 2023

It's a David Byrne Christmas. The cofounder and frontman of Talking Heads has put together a playlist of his favorite Christmas songs for us. Also, we'll hear from actor Nicolas Cage. In the new movie Dream Scenario, he plays a college professor who becomes a star on the internet after he mysteriously appears in the dreams of millions of people. He talks about how that relates to his own experience of becoming an internet meme.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

From WHYY in Philadelphia, I'm Terry Gross with Fresh Air Weekend. Today, it's a David Byrne Christmas. The co-founder and frontman of the band Talking Heads has put together a playlist for us of his favorite Christmas songs. He'll play those recordings and tell us why he chose them. We'll also play a great Christmas song recordings and tell us why he chose them. We'll also play a great Christmas song written and performed by David Byrne. Everybody knows that the fat man's coming

His hair is white as the snow And we'll hear from actor Nicolas Cage. He's starred in Moonstruck, Raising Arizona, Leaving Las Vegas, Adaptation, and countless action films. In the new movie Dream Scenario, he plays a college professor who becomes a star on the internet after he mysteriously appears in the dreams of millions of people. That's coming up on Fresh Air Weekend. This is Fresh Air Weekend. I'm Terry Gross.

When I interviewed David Byrne in November, I enjoyed it so much that when the interview was over, I asked if he'd consider returning before Christmas to play some of his favorite Christmas recordings. I'm grateful that he said yes. He's brought his list of songs, and he's here to play and talk about them. He included a holiday song he wrote and recorded, and I can't wait to play that for you. I consider David Byrne's return to our show a great Christmas gift for all of us who are about to hear him and the music he's about to play. Byrne is, of course, a founder and frontman of Talking Heads, which was a seminal new wave band in the 70s and 80s, although calling the band new wave or punk doesn't describe how unique they were or how they expanded out from the stripped-down music they began playing.

Byrne also founded the music label Luwakobop, which releases music of different genres from the U.S. and around the world. The restored version of the Talking Heads 1983 concert film Stop Making Sense was released earlier this year. It's widely considered to be one of the best concert films ever made. Byrne has also created the Broadway shows American Utopia and Here Lies Love. David Byrne, welcome back to Fresh Air. Happy holidays. So great to have you back. Happy holidays. Good to be back.

So I want to start by asking you, what are the criteria that you use to compile this list? I wanted to not take it too seriously, not too seriously, the Christmas list, and have fun. So when I'm putting together these kind of playlists for friends or whatever, I'm thinking, I want them to just have fun. Let's give them something that will bring a little joy in the holidays, because the holidays can be stressful for a lot of people. Yeah, and we've got some songs about that, too, that you've chosen. Yeah, we have that, too. We do have that. Fear not. There will be some sad songs.

All right. I want to start with something from your list that I really love that I hadn't heard before, because I wanted to get off to a really strong start. So we're starting with a song that you wrote and recorded called Fat Man's Comin'. Now, most Santa Claus songs are so ho-ho-ho cheery. This one is like high drama. It sounds like the theme song for an opening like dramatic film. Tell me how and why you wrote this song. Well, continuing on from our previous conversation, I sometimes have a tendency to take things a little bit literally. So I looked at the whole Santa phenomenon and said, well, what if I just describe this exactly as what's happening? Here's a stranger who's sneaking, breaking into your house, basically, and leaving packages

and dressed in a rather strange outfit. And I thought, what if I just do that? The arrangement is by a guy named Jarek Bischoff that I'd worked with before. And his arrangement is pretty incredible. Really kind of catches the flavor of when I'm getting this sort of slightly ominous, despite my description of what Santa's up to,

as being pretty accurate. It sounds more like a home invasion. Yes, yes. The arrangement gives it the appropriate mood. Absolutely. Let's hear it. This is David Byrne's Fat Man's Comin'. Comin' from the land of the ice and snow

A roly-poly man in the dark he's ridin' Everybody knows that he's out there now. Everybody knows that the fat man's coming. His hair is white as the snow. That man with the bird trim collar coming in from the cold Everybody says that you can't be real People say it's just my imagination Everybody claims that they don't believe

But everybody knows that the fat man's coming Wearing boots on a belt of leather He'll be creeping into your home Leaving packages unattended Before you know it, he's come and gone So that was David Byrne's song, Fat Man's Coming,

David, of course, singing lead, and an orchestration by Jarek Bischoff. I really love that. I hope you do more of that kind of high drama song with Jarek Bischoff orchestrations. Okay, so the next song we should play from your playlist is the Pogues song, Fairy Tale of New York. And the frontman of the Pogues, Shane McGowan, died very recently. So we should just acknowledge him and play this song. It's a great song.

I know it's a favorite of a lot of people. Tell us why you chose this and what the song means to you. It's a great song. He's a great songwriter. It's a duet with Christy McCall, somebody that I've worked with on a couple of records. And it's incredibly moving. It kind of brings you to tears every time you hear it. He paints a picture of this bickering couple that actually love one another very much. Immigrants who've come to New York and are finding a hard time of it getting their footing. And she is accusing him of all these promises that he made to her about how great New York would be. And they're all broken promises.

It's not been great. But it's the way he's telling this, the thing she's accusing him of, he's sort of singing about himself, his unreliability and drunkenness and everything else. So it's very moving. So let's hear it. This is The Pogues' Fairy Tale of New York, recorded in 1987. It was Christmas Eve, babe In the drunk tank An old man said to me Won't see another one And then he sang a song

The rare old mountain tune I turned my face away And dreamed about you Got on the lucky one Came in eighteen to one I've got a feeling This year is for me So happy Christmas

I love you baby I can see a better time, when all our dreams come true. They got cars big as bars They got ribbons of gold But the window's right through you It's no place for the old When you first took my hand On a cold Christmas Eve You promised me Broadway

Was waiting for me You were handsome You were pretty queen Of New York City When the band finished playing They held out for more Sinatra was swinging All the drums they were singing

We kissed on a corner Then danced through the night The boys of the NYP We're singing Go away, babe And the bells are ringing now For Christmas Day Oh, my God.

It's, like, heartbreaking from the first verse. Yeah, because he's in jail because he was brunk in public. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I don't think there were, like, bitter Christmas songs like this when you were growing up. I know there wasn't when I was growing up. No. No.

No. No. It was during the 60s and 70s, I think, that I remember there being songs that sort of criticized Christmas as far as talking about inequality and the emphasis on consumerism and things like that. You started to hear those kind of songs. Was Talking Heads ever asked to do a Christmas album? No, no. No one thought of that. And did you ever release a Christmas album on your label, the Waka Bop? No, no. On one hand, Christmas songs are perennial.

If you do one that people like, as we all know, every year you hear it again. It starts getting played again and again and again for a few weeks, and then it's gone again. But it comes back. So you're set for your song royalties or whatever. But if it doesn't click, you've just got this embarrassing thing. That will only be viable for a month. Yes, only viable for a month and then will be completely forgotten. Yeah, yeah.

Okay, so moving on, we've got another song about Christmas in the city. And this is a classic. This is one of those songs that does get played every Christmas. And it's James Brown's Santa Claus Goes Straight to the Ghetto. Tell us why you chose this. It's a classic. And this was during the period where James Brown was actually starting to make some social commentary in some of his songs.

But even though he's making this kind of pointed commentary about economics and inequality, and he can't help but put it to a funky beat. So there's a joy in the funky beat and how danceable it is that in a way is a response to the criticism in the lyrics. Yeah, you could easily dance to this. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So here's James Brown's Santa Claus Goes Straight to the Ghetto. Santa Claus goes straight to the ghetto Hitch up your reindeer

Go straight to the ghetto Santa Claus Go straight to the ghetto Fill every stocking you find The kids are gonna to love you so. Leave a toy for Johnny. Leave a doll for Mary. Leave something pretty for Donnie.

And don't forget about Gary. Santa Claus. Goes straight to the ghetto. Santa Claus Goes straight to the ghetto Santa Claus Goes straight to the ghetto Tell him James Brown sent you Goes straight to the ghetto You know that I know

What you will see Cause that was once me Hit it, hit it So Santa Claus Goes Straight to the Ghetto, one of the recordings, the Christmas recordings that David Byrne has brought with him today to play for us. So yeah, that's a great recording. So before we hear more music, we have to take a short break.

So let me reintroduce you. My guest is David Byrne. He'll play more of his favorite Christmas recordings after a break. I'm Terry Gross, and this is Fresh Air Weekend. This is Fresh Air Weekend. I'm Terry Gross. Let's get back to my interview with David Byrne, the co-founder and frontman of the band Talking Heads. Let's get back to my interview with David Byrne, the co-founder and frontman of the band Talking Heads. He's put together a playlist of his favorite Christmas songs for us, and he's here to play and talk about them. So I asked him about one of the songs he chose, Who Took the Merry Out of Christmas, by the Staples Singers. The Staples are basically a gospel group that managed to blur the line between gospel songs and secular songs. They had secular hits, but they come out of the gospel and the civil rights tradition.

And so here they're talking about who took the merry out of Christmas, but I think they're also talking about who forgot about the real meaning of Christmas. Yeah. And sometimes when I hear this song, I think instead of Mary, M-E-R-R-Y, they're singing M-A-R-Y. They're talking about the biblical story. Yeah. No, that's right. That's right. That's right.

So this is Who Took the Marriott of Christmas, and it's the Staple Singers, one of the songs that David Burton put on his Christmas playlist. Here we go. Merry Christmas in the fun of right style Who took the marriage for a smile People all over the world forgot about marriage To be here buying toys learning about Santa's toys

Make him believe he's just another baby boy. Making believe he's just another baby boy. Starting to light and can't seem to find the right star I can't believe he's just another baby boy Who took the man out of Christmas People out on the wild Forgot about their day That is really catchy.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, thank you for bringing that. Did you spend any Christmases in church? Oh, I probably did. My parents went to church when I was young. What kind of church was it? At one point, I remember they went to a Methodist church, which didn't have a lot of singing. And then they switched over to Unitarian.

I asked my dad, why don't you all switch? And he said, the music's better. What was the difference? What music was it? Was it like guitar? No, it wasn't. There was that period in church when it was like very folky. Yes, there was that period. This was not that. This was going the other way. They had like full-on choirs and classical musicians playing. I mean, it was kind of incredible. So we have another, like, Christmas heartbreak song here.

And this is Alexander 23 and Leve, who I am not familiar with. So tell us about them and why you chose this song. I don't know Alexander 23. I'm familiar with Leve, who's having quite a moment at the moment. She's Icelandic and does songs that sound like they were written before the rock and roll era. And this is kind of almost one of them. It's kind of like a throwback to the kind of older school of Christmas songs. But much sadder.

Yeah, but much sadder. Yes. Okay. So this is In Christmas, and let much sadder. Yeah, but much sadder. Yes. Okay. So this is In Christmas, and let's hear it. In Christmas You said our goodbyes this December, oh no So I went to the furnace, thought maybe I'd burn it My heart is a dry, I can't even return it, oh no The most wonderful time of the year

Is breaking my heart So tell me this Christmas Who'll keep you warm Who'll put your presents down on the floor Under the tree that you bought with me Watch all those movies that we both have seen Hundreds of times we know every line But it's not about that, it's about the time

Together on Christmas So this Christmas ain't Christmas at all I made cookies for Nikki like you used to do But I got so damn sad that I ate one or two of them all So please turn off Mariah, I am not in the mood Cause all I want for Christmas Wants nothing to do with me now I really like that song.

And the way they do it with a male and female singer, it sounds like they're both yearning for each other, but they've broken up and they should get back together. Exactly. Yes, I'm going to burn your present, but you can tell she really thought, why couldn't this have worked out? Yeah, because they love the same films.

David, I'm so grateful to you for coming back on the show and doing this. It's been so much fun. And you've introduced me to songs I didn't know and performers I didn't know. I knew some of them, but not all of them. So thank you for that. I personally thank you for that.

And I wish you happy holidays. Thank you. Same to you. Happy holidays. Thank you. Hope you make it through the holidays. Yeah. You can find and listen to the Christmas playlist David Byrne put together for us at freshair.npr.org. He co-founded and fronted the band Talking Heads. Dave Davies has our next interview. Here's Dave to introduce it.

My guest, Nicholas Cage, has appeared in more than a hundred films. Depending on which ones you've seen, you might think of him as an action movie hero. He's done plenty of those. You might also remember him starring with Cher in the romantic comedy Moonstruck or playing the dim-witted but lovable criminal in the Coen brothers' Raising Arizona. He won a Best Actor Oscar playing a writer drinking himself to death and leaving Las Vegas. In Adaptation, Cage played two characters, twin brothers, sometimes in conversation with each other in the same room. In Face Off, he and John Travolta's character trade physical identities through face transplants, so he has to morph into Travolta's character in the film. Cage grew up in California

around moviemaking and is a student of film history. He's known for meticulous preparation for his characters and sometimes taking them to extremes in his performances. He's earned a Golden Globe nomination for his latest role, which is somewhat more subdued. In the movie Dream Scenario, he plays a college professor who strangely finds he's appearing as a bystander in the dreams of his friends, his family, his students, and eventually millions of people who make the connection and make him famous for, well, nothing. Dream Scenario, written and directed by Christopher Borgli, is in theaters now. Nicholas Cage, welcome back to Fresh Air. It's been a while.

It has been. Thank you for having me back. Let's start by listening to a clip from the new film, Dream Scenario. In this scene, you're a college professor named Paul Matthews, and you're teaching a class where he now realizes that many of his students have seen him in their dreams, and he asks them about it. I'll just note that this is a visual clip. You obviously won't see that as a radio audience, but there are moments where there's some noise, and it's essentially two dreams where the students in question

are dreaming about terrifying situations. So let's listen. Who's certain they've actually had a dream about me? Okay, let's explore this. This might get us somewhere interesting. Does anyone want to share the content of their dream? Yes, you? Well,

I'm in this forest wandering around eating these strange mushrooms and I'm in like a full tuxedo for some reason. And there's other people also dressed up, but they're all scared, like frozen in fear. And then I realized it's because of this really tall man running towards me. Light! Are you talking to me? Yes. Paul, he'll kill us! Paul! I've never seen these.

Beautiful. That's all I remember. Ah, interesting. So, I'm looking at the mushrooms instead of helping. Oh, I suppose, yeah. Okay. Let's hear another one. Anyone? Okay, so I'm just observing again. But that's funny. Interesting one.

Anyone else? And that's our guest, Nicholas Cage, in the new movie, Dream Scenario. You know, as I listen, the voice of your character there, Paul Matthews, seems a little higher than your conversational voice. You want to tell us about getting into this role physically? Well, I'm glad you noticed that. It was a lot of thought went into trying to create a character that was as far away from my own presentation as I could get. And that required changing the register of my voice as well. I've found that over the years, I'm more recognized by my voice, my so-called Mojave drawl than anything else. And when we were, Christopher and I, the director and I were designing the character, he wanted to change my look so that people wouldn't see so-called Nick Cage, but rather Paul Matthews. So he decided to change the shape of my nose and very minimally just modify it,

and then also remove the hair. We decided that would be a good look, a more perhaps professorial look. We added some weight to the character. I wanted to change the way I moved. I was more stooping or hunched over, walking slower. But it was a point that I made that we have to change the voice. And so I thought I would raise it a bit and add a more adenoidal sound to Paul's delivery, his speaking delivery. You know, this is a character who longs for more recognition. You know, he sort of is an academic, but not all that successful and feels kind of resentful that other people may have taken his

ideas and he can't quite get his book written. He's ambitious, but never quite getting there. That was part of this too, I guess. You know, they say this is a comedy, which, sure, there are very funny moments in the movie, but there is something tragic about Paul. He never really actively sought out a spotlight. And what's happening to him is happening inexplicably, that people are suddenly dreaming about him around the world and he's become famous. And I think he sees it more as an opportunity to be able to get his book published, a book about ants. It's called Antelligence. And he's frustrated because the person that was in class with him, not his own student, but a person that he was studying with, took one of his ideas and published a book. And

that hurts him. But it is Paul's fault because he has no follow through. I mean, he's, I think he's a good professor. I think he really enjoys teaching. I think that his students do like his course, but he hasn't put pen to paper and written one word of his book.

This is very much a movie about how technology, you know, can turn something, some occurrence into an internet meme and make it widely known. And the director here, Christopher Borgli, is Norwegian and a lot younger than a lot of the directors that you've worked with. Did, I don't know, did you felt he had a different media sensibility? You know, see, this is an interesting question. Yes. You know, I've been doing this for, I guess we're approaching almost 45 years, almost half a century.

And, you know, I've made different kinds of movies, different genres and kept going at it. But I realized at some point that what I guess I would call the old guard, the keepers at the gate, had already made up their minds about me and that I wasn't going to get be the young filmmakers that are emerging that may have perhaps grown up with me and might want to try something with me and see what they can do with me. approach, looking at Sarnoski and Pig and now Christopher with Dream Scenario has been incredibly rewarding because these are people that are so full of life. They're so full of imagination and they haven't had their dreams, if you will, whipped out of them yet by corporate thinking or the industry. And they're vital. They have life. And that keeps me fertile. And Christopher was, for me, someone that I had complete faith in. I read his script, which was one of the five scripts in doing this for 45 years or however long, that I said, I have to make this movie. I didn't want to change a word. The other scripts were Vampire's Kiss, Leaving Las Vegas, Raising Arizona, and Adaptation,

and now Dream Scenario. We're listening to Dave Davey's interview with Nicolas Cage. Cage stars in the new film Dream Scenario. We'll hear more of their conversation after a break. Dave Davies' interview with Nicolas Cage. Cage stars in the new film Dream Scenario. We'll hear more of their conversation after a break. I'm Terry Gross, and this is Fresh Air Weekend. This is Fresh Air Weekend. I'm Terry Gross. Let's get back to Dave Davies' interview with Nicolas Cage, who's appeared in more than 100 films, including Moonstruck, Raising Arizona, Con Air, Face Off, Adaptation, and Leaving Las Vegas, for which he won the Academy Award for Best Actor. He's currently starring in Dream Scenario, in which he plays a college professor who mysteriously begins appearing

in the dreams of millions of people. It's in theaters now. You grew up in California, went to Beverly Hill High School, right? If anybody was born to be in the movies, maybe it was you. Your uncle was Francis Ford Coppola. Is it true that you were running around on the set of Godfather II when you were a kid? I was there in Lake Tahoe with my cousins. I adored my childhood with my cousins. We had so much fun together. And I do remember visiting the set, yes. Not surprising that you would be interested in this. You work taking tickets in a movie theater. What convinced you you wanted to pursue this? I think it began when I was very, very young. I was maybe four or five, and I was in front of the television set, and I thought the people inside the TV were so much more interesting than the people at home

that I wanted to try and get inside the TV. You know, a lot of people think that this would be fun, then find out it's really not so easy. Did you find it difficult? I felt blessed that I was doing exactly what I was meant to do, that I'm in a job that I think my DNA was programmed for. I feel that I'm lucky that I found it. I almost didn't. I had another path that I was going to take if it didn't happen. And, you know, I was going to do one more audition. And if that didn't work out, I was going to get on a boat and go fishing and write short stories. So the acting worked out.

But I was thinking about a plan B. What was the audition that rescued you? I think Valley Girl was really the time that I found my voice. And I have to give Martha Coolidge credit. Without her, Nicolas Cage would not exist. She was the one that empowered me, guided me. She gave me a great direction. Hurt but not defeated in one of the scenes that I was playing. And I've used that ever since. And I think if Martha had not discovered me, I would be on the boat. And she really gave me the confidence, the belief in myself that I could do this. When did you change your name from Nick Coppola to Nicolas Cage? I mean, I gather that was so that you wouldn't be seen as, you know. Well, I had a shrewd reason. It wasn't just, you know, to try to avoid, you know, so-called nepotism. I changed my name the first time was on my audition for Valley Girl.

I did it partly because on the set of Fast Times, it was a subject of teasing that I was a Coppola and I had no right to think that I could act simply because of my illustrious uncle. That was Fast Times at Ridgemont High. Yeah, Fast Times. So I changed my name to Cage. And happily, Martha, she did not know the connection. That's a true story.

And she cast me as Cage. It was the first time that I went into an audition with my new name and I got the part and that was hugely empowering for me to believe I could do it on my own steam. But the shrewd reason, and no one really talks about this and I haven't brought it up before, is that I had the prescience to know that filmmakers are a very competitive and somewhat egocentric group, directors. And I didn't think that any director would want another director's name, no less the name Coppolaola above the title of their movie. So I was also thinking that in terms of business. You had a lot of real success early. I mean, you had Moonstruck and Raising Arizona before you were 25. You played with Cher in Moonstruck. It's a very memorable role. You know, I've talked to a lot of actors, and many of them will look back at movies they did when they were in their 20s and just getting going and kind of, you know, wince.

They say, well, I really didn't know what I was doing then. I mean, your performances seem to hold up from when I look at those old movies. How do you feel about them? I don't go down memory lane unless I'm forced to. And I did a profile on Vanity Fair where I was looking at old movies and one of them was Moonstruck. But I do think that there was an energy to the early work that I'm happy with. And I think, again, that I felt that it made sense that I was an actor, that I was being able to or being invited to play these parts. And it was life-changing for me. It was in many ways cathartic, in many

ways therapeutic. It was very, very helpful that I could do something constructive with all the energy that I had. I do want to go back earlier to Raising Arizona, which is just a favorite of so many. It's by the Coen brothers. I'll play a little scene here. I mean, you play this kind of wacky character, H.I. McDonough, who's a not bright but earnest criminal who robs convenience stores with an unloaded gun

and eventually falls in love with and marries a policewoman, Ed, short for Edwina, played by Holly Hunter. He goes straight, they get married and discover they cannot have children. So they hatched this plot because they read about a furniture magnate named Nathan Arizona, whose wife had five kids, quintuplets, after fertility treatment. So they figure they've got more than they can handle. Why don't we just take one? So you drive over and you shinny up a ladder and come down with a little baby. And this is the scene where you've returned to the car and you are talking to your wife, played by Holly Hunter.

Let's listen. Oh, he's beautiful. Yeah, he's awful damn good. I think I got the best one. I bet they were all beautiful. All babies are beautiful. This one's awful damn good, though. Don't you cuss around him.

He's fine, he is. I think it's Nathan Jr. We are doing the right thing, aren't we, High? I mean, they had more than they could handle. Well, now, honey, we've been over this and over this, and there's what's right and there's what's right, and never the twain shall meet. But don't you think his mama will be upset? I mean, overly?

Well, of course she'll be upset, sugar, but she'll get over it. She's got four little babies almost as good as this one. It's like when I was driving convenience stores. I love him so much. I know you do, honey. I love him so much. I know you do. honey. I love him so much. I know you do. It's still funny. It is.

And Holly Hunter is just magnificent in that movie, isn't she? Yeah, yeah. No, she is. They are great. I mean, they all are. John Goodman. They're all funny. And it has this crazy Coen Brothers sensibility.

The look. I mean, his hair is going like three different directions. He's got this weird look in his eye. What did you do to get the look and just the feel and the sound of this guy? So, again, this was one of the five best scripts I've ever read. And I knew right away I had to play the part. I thought the look kind of would be almost Looney Tunes, like Woody Woodpecker with the hair standing up. And I put a lot of thought into the delivery.

We worked on the accent together, Joel and I. And I sent him different tapes of how I was getting close to the sound, the sort of rural sound. I tried to get away from an urban sound. And we built it together. I still think it's my favorite Coen Brothers movie. I just think that movie really stands up the test of time. They're really careful with casting. Was it hard to get the role? I must have auditioned for that movie five or six times. And I remember Joel saying, I'm laughing, but I don't know why I'm laughing. And I said, well, that's good, isn't it? I mean, I really wanted the part. And they were talking about a lot of other actors. But I fought for it. And I'm glad I did. I'm very, very happy with that

movie. I wanted to talk about Leaving Las Vegas, which I guess was made in 1995. Again, relatively early in your career. You play an alcoholic screenwriter whose life has fallen apart, I guess due to his drinking. So he sells everything he owns, moves to Las Vegas to drink himself to death, where he connects with a prosperous sex worker played by Elizabeth Shue. And here's a scene in which she's invited him to leave the cheap hotel he's been staying at and move into her apartment.

Let's listen. Before we proceed onwards, there's something I have to say, okay? Okay. I've come this far. Here I am in your house. I want you to let me pay this month's rent. No. All right?

Why? Because... Because it's better for me that way, okay? Okay. I'll tell you... Right now... I'm in love with you. But be that as it may, I am not here to force my twisted soul into your life. I know that.

We both know I'm a drunk. And I know you're a hooker. I hope you understand that I'm a person who is totally at ease with this. Which is not to say that I'm indifferent or I don't care. I do. It simply means I trust and accept your judgment. And that is our guest, Nicholas Cage, with Elizabeth Shue in the film Leaving Las Vegas. You won an Oscar for Best Actor for that role.

I think that's one of the films you say was one of the best screenplays you ever read. Yes. What interested you in the character? Well, I read the script and right away I thought it was the, well, for lack of a better word, the coolest relationship, romantic relationship I've ever read in a screenplay. These two severely injured people find true love. And to me, it was a very moving and hopeful love story, as tragic and dark as it got. I mean, at the time, you know, I wanted to find a drama that I could really express myself in. And along comes this script by Mike Figgis, and I just fell in love

with it immediately. You know, did you find yourself, as you read the script, rooting for this guy to turn around and reverse his decision to drink himself to death? I don't know that I was rooting for him. I was feeling for him. I was feeling the poignancy of his situation, and I felt that I could play it. I cared about him. And when I read the novel by John O'Brien, I felt even more. And it's interesting because his family came on the set, and there were little things that I would choose for the character that turned out to be actually his choices, the kind of watch he wore, the kind of car he drove. And they were kind of amazed, the family. I don't know how it happened. I don't want to get too metaphysical about it, but it seemed like a doorway had opened and I was feeling John.

You know, in this movie, you're drunk in, I think, probably every scene. There are a lot of ways to play a drunk, and it's easy to overdo it. I'm wondering, did you prepare much? How did you prepare to do this and do it in an authentic way? Well, I had seen different alcoholic performances, and the one that really stood out to me as genuinely drunk was Albert Finney in Under the Volcano. Within the first two minutes of him walking through the streets of Mexico, I said, that guy's really drunk. And Figgis, who directed Leaving Las Vegas, had worked with Albert. And I asked Mike, was Albert drinking? And so Mike asked Albert, and Albert said, no, you tell Nick that I would just take a swig and I'd spit it out just so I

could get the feeling of it, the recall of it. And so I tried that. And the only time I was ever really loaded was the, again, the casino scene, because I wanted to dangerously, a high risk experiment, I wanted to try to get a blackout on camera because I thought that would get to that level of believability that Albert had in Under the Volcano. And that was a scary thing to do. And I said, we're only going to do this once, so make sure you get it, because I'm not doing it again. But I'm happy with the results. I would never do that again.

I do think that if the movie had gone on longer, like if it had gone on for four months, then it would have been a disaster. But the fact that it was only a four-week shoot and it moved very quickly, it didn't have any lasting impact. Wow. I'm going to make sure I get this right. As I recall in that scene, you're at a blackjack table and you pull the table over and the chips go everywhere. And I think the waitress behind you falls down. Did you actually pass out? No, I didn't pass out, but none of that was, was choreographed and the security came in. It was a mess, but that's exactly what I wanted for the scene. I wanted that shocking reality. I was looking for the most real expression of the

dangers of alcoholism. And when you say security came in, you mean not actors but the actual casino security? Yeah, they were in the scene. They came in. That's all on camera. Those weren't actors. Okay. I read that you said when you were talking about this film that you never thought you would win an Oscar.

And I didn't know if you meant by that that you never thought you would win it for that performance or that you'd never win one at all. At all. I meant at all. I did Leaving Las Vegas because nobody else wanted to do it. It was the darkest script in town. No studio would touch it. And they were all afraid of it because of the material. And I thought, well, heck, I'm not going to win an Oscar anyway for anything, so let's do it. And then lo and behold, when you're not looking for something, it comes to you. You know, we haven't talked about your personal life much, and I don't know if you want to or not. But, you know, it's been widely reported that you had at a certain point a lot of debts, some to the IRS. And I gather this was from purchasing some expensive far-flung homes, which then the market crashed and you couldn't get out

of them easily. And I mean, you have had five marriages. I mean, those are a lot of commitments to it. I'm wondering, you know, you live and learn. And, you know, I started very young and, you know, thankfully I've paid everybody back and I've worked my way out of it. I believed I could work my way out of it and I did. And I'm proud of that. Yeah. Didn't file for bankruptcy. Some urged you to do.

Yeah. What's file for bankruptcy. Some urged you to do. Yeah. What's next for you? Do you want to give us any things to look for? Well, right now I'm enjoying Dream Scenario. I'm very happy with this movie. You know, Dave, I don't really know. I'm at this point, you know, I'm looking at what I've already done in cinema and exploring the boundaries of where we can go with film performance. And, you know, I feel like I've pretty much said what I've had to say.

I think I might explore a new format. I might try television. I've never done that. My son introduced me to Breaking Bad, and I was very impressed with Cranston in that series. And maybe that's something I should look at. Okay. Well, we will look forward to it if it happens. Nicholas Cage, I've enjoyed it.

Thank you so much for speaking with us. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Nicholas Cage stars in the new film, Dream Scenario. He spoke with Dave Davies. Fresh Air Weekend is produced by Teresa Madden. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham, with additional engineering today from Adam Staniszewski. Our interviews and reviews are

produced and edited by Amy Sallet, Phyllis Myers, Roberta Shorrock, Sam Brigger, Lauren Krenzel, Heidi Saman, Anne-Marie Baldonado, Thea Chaloner, Seth Kelly, and Susan Yakundi. Our digital media producer is Molly C.V. Nesper. Our co-host is Tanya Mosley.

I'm Terry Gross.