Fresh Air - Best Of: How 1982 Sci-Fi Changed The Game / Singer Brittany Howard

Episode Date: August 10, 2024

In 1982, eight science fiction films were released within eight weeks of each other. Chris Nashawaty, author of The Future Was Now, tells Tonya Mosley how those movies shaped the genre and the movie industry. Plus, Brittany Howard, the former Alabama Shakes singer/guitarist, tells Terry Gross that growing up, she was told repeatedly she didn't look like a lead singer. "It made me sing ... louder and perform just as hard as I could," Howard says. Her new album is What Now.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Support for this podcast and the following message come from the NPR Wine Club, which has generated over $1.75 million to support NPR programming. Whether buying a few bottles or joining the club, you can learn more at nprwineclub.org slash podcast. Must be 21 or older to purchase. From WHYY in Philadelphia, I'm Tanya Mosley with Fresh Air Weekend. Today we go back in time to the year 1982. It's when entertainment writer Chris Nashawati says, for a brief moment, movie makers were

cashing in on the success of Star Wars and Jaws by taking new risks in sci-fi, paving the way for iconic movies like E.T. and Tron and Poltergeist. Nashawati joins us to talk about his new book, The Future Was Now. And we'll hear from singer-songwriter, guitarist, and producer, Brittany Howard. She fronted the band Alabama Shakes before going solo. We'll talk about her latest album, writing and singing breakup songs,

and performing with Prince. I used to miss the way you loved me I'm not that lonely singing breakup songs, and performing with Prince. That's coming up on Fresh Air Weekend. This message comes from WISE, the app for doing things in other currencies. Send, spend, or receive money internationally, and always get the real-time mid-market exchange rate with no hidden fees. Download the Wise app today or visit wise.com. T's and C's apply.

This is Fresh Air Weekend. I'm Tanya Mosley. In the summer of 1982, my guest today, entertainment writer Chris Nashawati, was a 13-year-old burgeoning film geek who spent the entire summer that year in movie theaters watching eight feature films that would go on to change the face of cinema as we know it. Movies like Blade Runner, Conan the Barbarian, Poltergeist, and a sweet movie about an alien trying to find his way back home. E-T. Home phone. E.T. Phone home.

E.T. Phone home. E.T. Phone home. He wants to call somebody. Wait, what's all this s***? E.T. phone home. Oh my god, he's talking.

Home. E.T. phone home. E.T. phone home. E.T. phone home. And they'll come. Come home. Home. E.T., The Extraterrestrial, is a classic, of course, and was a huge hit when it was released the weekend of July 4th in 1982,

making it at the time the biggest box office hit in Hollywood history. Some of the other movies that made a splash were Tron, The Thing, Star Trek, Wrath of Khan, and Mad Max, The Road Warrior. Chris Noshawati has written a new book about the significance of that summer called The Future Was Now, Mad Men, Mavericks, and the Epic Sci-Fi Summer of 1982. Up until that point, Hollywood executives, he says, were baffled by the sci-fi fantasy genre, until these movies showed them the potential of tapping into a rabid fan base, eager to spend money on merchandise and endless sequels. Chris Nashawati is a writer, editor, and former film critic of Entertainment Weekly.

His work has appeared in Esquire, Sports Illustrated, and Vanity Fair. He is also the author of Caddyshack, the making of a Hollywood Cinderella story. And Chris Nashawati, welcome to Fresh Air. Thank you for having me. I'm very excited. Yeah, well, you know what is so interesting about this conversation right now is that the movies that are making a splash today are reboots and part two, three, fours, many of the same movies that we're going to be talking about today. It's like the summer of 1982 brought with it both an expansion of our thinking, but also kind of created a monster. That is 100% the argument of the book. That summer was a real turning point. It was the

beginning of Hollywood really catering to fan culture, which is something, you know, right now as we're talking, you know, Comic-Con is still fresh in the news. That's right. Yeah. So, you know, it's interesting that that summer sort of was a reaction to what had gone on with Star Wars, proving that, you know, there was an audience for a genre that was in many ways dismissed as geeky or kid stuff or whatever. A subculture. Yeah. And the subculture sort of became the culture that summer. So Star Wars, 1977. Jaws, 1975 are two films that they're usually talked about as the birth of the summer blockbusters. We know it. And it opened up this world of sci-fi and fantasy. How did those two films though set the stage for this summer of 1982? Yeah, I mean, I think that Jaws and Star Wars were potent examples of movies that people didn't just pay to see in the summer, but paid to see over and over again.

They were movies that appealed to, as you mentioned in the intro, a rabid fan base. And the studios saw how much money that those movies were making and knew that they needed to tap into this audience. They needed to follow that trend, as Hollywood always does. But that takes time. It's like turning a battleship, right? So after, usually when you want to find out where a trend came from in terms of movies, just look back five years earlier,

because that's how long it takes to develop and make a movie and release it. So five years earlier, before 1982, was 1977. Hello, Star Wars. So that's what they're all reacting to in the summer. Okay, let's talk about what films actually came out the summer of 1982. So there was Tron. There was The Thing.

The Thing, Blade Runner, The Road Warrior, Conan the Barbarian, Star Trek The Wrath of Khan, and what else? E.T. Poltergeist. How many of them were original screenplays, and how many of them were based on books or comics? Well, there are two ways to answer that question. I think of them all as original because they were not based on books or comics? Well, there are two ways to answer that question. I think of

them all as original because they were not based on, like today, the concept of what's original is very different from back then. Some of them were based on books. Like for example, The Thing was based on a science fiction story called Who Goes There? Blade Runner was based on a Philip K. Dick novel called Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? You know, they were all, E. Blade Runner was based on a Philip K. Dick novel called Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? You know, they were all, E.T. was completely original. Road Warrior was completely original. I mean, it was a mix, really, but none of them were based on what we consider today as, you know, popular intellectual property. You know what I mean? They weren't these huge IP things. They would become those, but they weren't them. And so to me,

it's very telling that in one summer, you had all of these fresh, bold, original ideas, which is sort of the exact opposite of where we find ourselves right now. Well, this book is a fun read because you give a lot of behind the scenes history, and people love hearing those stories about about who was thought of to cast for who, and then who ended up getting the role, and then some of the fights and things like that. But the stories that I love the most are the stories behind the writing of these stories that are enduring stories that we love. Take us back to when Steven Spielberg was conceptualizing E.T. At the time, he was considered the golden boy. He was like the it director in town at the time.

Yeah. Yeah, he had just done Jaws, which obviously was a massive hit. And he could really do anything he wanted after that. So he decided to make Close Encounters. And the reason I bring that up is that it's in a way sort of a cousin, a pretty close cousin to this movie, E.T. You know, you've got this really promising young director dealing in science fiction. And in a way, he sort of legitimized it, right? with him and Lucas sort of legitimized the genre by making really great movies in what was seen as a very populist, maybe low genre. And, you know, with E.T., that was really a story that he had been carrying around for a long time, really since his childhood. He had a very lonely childhood. His parents split up and he never really understood why, only understood much later. And I think he felt

like an ugly duckling at school. He was Jewish in an area that wasn't, you know, didn't have a very large Jewish population. I think he felt like a, you know, like an outsider and a lonely outsider. So created, you know, these sort of pretend friends. And E.T. is really the outgrowth of that story. I mean, it's as great as a science fiction tale as it is. It's also this really sort of touching story about growing up in the suburbs alone. You know, you've got your siblings, but really like it's a broken home. It's a broken family. But there's a lot of love there. And it's it's know, he had this story inside of him. And he's told it a couple of times in various ways, most recently with The Fableon. She had written The Black Stallion, and she was dating Harrison Ford when they were making Raiders of the Lost Ark.

And that was the movie that he made right before E.T. And while they were on the set, they met, and he knew that he needed an emotional sort of assist on the script for E.T. Because the initial screenplay didn't have some of these. Yeah, it was very different. Yeah. In what way? It was more of a horror story, really.

I mean, it was about a group of aliens that are left behind. At the time, it was being called Night Skies. And it was a darker story. And in fact, he actually hired a writer to sort of pursue that. He hired John Sayles, a great screenwriter, to sort of go down that path. And he wrote that script.

And I think by the time he delivered it, Spielberg had had a bit of a change of heart and realized that he wanted it to be a more emotional sort of kinder, gentler story for kids. The way you say it in the book is that what came of that is where that story, Night Skies, ends is where E.T. begins. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great making of story. And Spielberg, you know, I'm especially fascinated by him at this period of his career because he is having so much success so quickly.

And he's really working at the height of his powers. He has all this energy. He's hopping from one project to the next. He's sort of this unstoppable force of nature. And yet someone did turn down E.T. initially, an executive. Yeah. I mean, that's a great story, too. I mean, he had a deal with Columbia to make E.T. there. And they had signed on for the scarier, darker version because they wanted this sort of hard science fiction, dark story from the director of Jaws.

That they could sell, right? And then he told them that he was shifting it in a different direction, you know, into the softer story. And when they read the script, they just said, this is a wimpy kid's Disney movie. We're not interested in this. And they basically said, you know, we're going to not make this movie. And they put it in turnaround, which means that another studio, if they paid what Columbia had invested in the property already, they could take the picture. So Spielberg called up his buddy at Universal, Sidney Sheinberg, who had worked with him on Jaws. And he said, look, can you write a check for a million bucks to take this project?

I really want to make this movie and Columbia is not going to make it. And he was like, yeah, of course. So what's interesting is that Columbia made a huge mistake, obviously, because E.T. became the biggest movie of all time. And they retained 5% of the film's profits. But the funny thing is and the ironic thing is, and they retained 5% of the film's profits. But the funny thing is, and the ironic thing is, is that Columbia, just from their 5%, that made more money for the studio that year

than any of their own homegrown movies. So, I mean, they really screwed up. Let's take a short break. If you're just joining us, my guest is writer Chris Nashawati. We're talking about his new book, The Future Was Now, Mad Men, Mavericks, and the Epic Sci-Fi Summer of 1982. We'll continue our conversation after a short break. I'm Tanya Mosley, and this is Fresh Air Weekend.

Spielberg also wrote Poltergeist, which is about a young family that's visited by ghosts in their home. And at first, the ghosts appear friendly, but then they get more sinister. And it turns nasty and they start to terrorize the family before they kidnap the youngest daughter. In this scene I'm about to play, a medium named Tangina, played by Zelda Rubinstein, tells the parents of the little girl that the spirits won't leave their daughter alone. Let's listen.

There's one more thing. A terrible presence is in there with her. So much rage. So much betrayal. I've never sensed anything like it. I don't know what hovers over this house, but it was strong enough to punch a hole into this world and take your dog away from you. It keeps Carol A. and Barry close to it

and away from the spectral light. It lies to her. It says things only a child can understand. It has been using her to restrain the others. To her, it simply is another child. To us, it is the beast. That was a scene from the 1982 movie Poltergeist, written by Steven Spielberg, and we'll get to the director situation a little bit later. But Chris, is it true that Poltergeist and E.T. were kind of like two sides of the same coin? They were kind of like an embryo that split into twins. Yeah, okay, that's a better way to put it.

The good and the evil twin. Yeah. Yeah, they both sort of emerged from the same idea. It's interesting. The movie began as a science fiction story about an alien visitation and how the aliens terrorized this family. Poltergeist, yeah. Yes, exactly. And along the way, it sort of evolved into this story about spirits, the supernatural.

And, you know, I think that's probably a good thing. I don't know that Spielberg would have wanted to have two science fictions movies in the same summer. Well, how did it even come to be that they both came out the same summer? Because I don't think I've ever heard of that before. Yeah, Spielberg, I'm telling you, Spielberg at that point in time was this prolific energizer bunny who just wanted to wake up and go to a movie set, shoot a movie, go to bed, repeat the next day. And so for him, making E.T. was obviously a full-time job, but he had this great idea and he wanted to make it now. So, you know, Director's Guild rules prevent someone from directing two movies at the same time. So he signed on to Poltergeist as just the producer. He also co-wrote the script.

But – so he really had two movies going at the same time. And he hired a director. Is it Toby Hooper? Yeah, Toby Hooper. Yeah. He had directed The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, which, you know, anyone who hears the title immediately thinks that that's the most sort of satanic movie that's ever been made. But it's really a work of art. You know, it's if you're into genre cinema, Texas Chainsaw Massacre is a work of art. It's a beautifully made movie.

It's been inducted into the Museum of Modern Art. You don't have to. I don't have to sell you on Texas Chainsaw. But it's funny to hear it in that same context. No, he really, it's a great movie. And I think a lot of movie makers at the time really thought that he was someone to bet on, Toby Hooper. But there was a bit of a, you know, what would you call it between Toby Hooper and Steven Spielberg? Because Steven hired him to be the director of Poltergeist.

Right. But really, he never directed it. Well, that is a question mark. Okay. There's a lot of speculation about this. Some people who were involved with the making of the movie feel that Spielberg was on the set every day but three days of the making of Poltergeist, even though he was just a producer. There are a lot of people who say that

he really took over the directing of the film from Tobey Hooper. Maybe Tobey Hooper wasn't up to directing such a big major studio movie or that he didn't have a forceful enough personality to sort of make the movie the way it should be made. Other people say that, no, Tobey Hooper did direct it. It seems to me, after the people I've spoken to and what I've read, and that all facts sort of come down on the side of Stephen Spielberg was a very hands-on producer. And Steven Spielberg did not help himself out by making some statements during the time of the film's release

implying that he was a much larger... He had a much larger role. He had a much larger role in directing the film than he may or may not have. He wanted credit for it. He did. And I think that's what it boils down to is that that was a story that really came from him.

And I think he had a hard time giving up credit. Because he said about Poltergeist, he says, Poltergeist is what I fear and E.T. is what I love. One is about suburban evil and the other is about suburban good. And both of these stories live in my heart. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's exactly it. And I think, you know, they are two sides of him. Yeah. for kids because deep down he is a kid. And I think that Poltergeist or the sort of scandal

that erupted from it over this people, two different people taking sort of credit as the director was really the first public black eye that he had ever gotten. His career had been charmed up to that point and it's been charmed ever since. But there was this brief hiccup, right, where he had a bit of a public relations nightmare on his hands. About these movies, did he ever share with you the impact of that year or those movies in particular about his career and artistic choices from that point on? Yeah. I mean, I think he told me that E.T. is one of his most personal and favorite movies. And he also mentioned the fact that working with the kids was really the highlight, including a very young Drew Barrymore. That's right. A loner, single guy for a lot of his life, and making this movie with these kids every day really sort of made him want to be a dad, which he's done several times over since then. Well, this was really fun going down memory lane.

Chris Nashawati, thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Chris Nashawati is a writer, editor, and former film critic for Entertainment Weekly. His new book is called The Future Was Now, Mad Men, Mavericks, and the Epic Sci-Fi Summer of 1982. Terry has our next interview. I'll let her introduce it. Brittany Howard has returned to our show for a second visit to talk about her new solo album and more. She became well-known as the singer, guitarist, and songwriter fronting the band Alabama Shakes. The band's second album, Sound and Color, debuted at number one on the Billboard 200.

In 2015, Howard received Billboard's Women in Music Powerhouse Award. She recently released her second solo album called What Now? Her first solo album received a Grammy Award, and she received four Grammys with Alabama Shakes. In her new album, you can hear the influences of soul singers, Prince, who she knew, and dance music. The last time she was on our show, we talked about growing up in the small town of Athens, Alabama. Her father owned a junkyard, and their home was in the middle of it. That home was struck by lightning and burned down when she was about eight. At the same time, her 13-year-old sister was dying from a rare form of eye cancer.

Howard had it too, but survived, although one eye has only partial vision. She used her sister's name, Jamie, as the title of her first solo album, which was dedicated to Jamie. It was released in 2019. Let's start with a track from her new album, What Now? The song is called Power to Undo. She wrote and produced it. She sings and plays guitar. Yes, I miss the way that you used to hold me Like I was holy Okay, oh yeah, I know I used to miss the way you loved me I'm not that lonely You have the power to undo everything that I want But I won't let you.

You have the power to undo everything that I want, but I won't let you. You have the power to undo everything that I want. Yeah, I'm walking in a flash. Brittany Howard, welcome back to Fresh Air. I love the new album. It is a pleasure to have you back on the show. So is there a story behind that song? Were you in a relationship that that song is describing?

I had just left a relationship, and it was very, very hard not to go back. There was a lot of dynamics going on that I was just so used to and kind of like comforted by, but it wasn't necessarily good for me. And I knew I had broke free when I wrote this song. There was this calling for me to come back to it, go back to it. You can work it out. It'll be different. It's all going to work out if you just try harder. But there was also a part of me that was just so tired of trying that I didn't want to try to fit into that person that I needed to be to exist in that relationship. And it was scary to change and to transform who I was to just being me alone, worrying about myself. And it was a really difficult time.

It was a really difficult time not turning around and going back to what I was used to. There's two lines that really stand out in my mind. You've got the power to undo everything that I want, but I won't let you. And the other is like, you have the power because I gave it to you. Can you talk about that second line? You have the power because I gave it to you can you talk about that second line you have the power because I gave it to you what's true I realized that I was allowing myself to become small I was actually going out of my way to find ways not to shine too bright or to take up too much space. So I was just participating in the dynamic by squashing myself down to make myself fit like a soggy puzzle piece.

Why did you feel the urge to do that, the need to do that? Just to stay because I thought that was love. I thought that's what love was, was making it work by any means necessary, which of course I know is not love, not a love I want to participate in anyway. Would you consider this one of the songs that was influenced by Prince? Yeah, I'd say so. What was his role in your life as a listener and as someone who was helped by him? Well, ever since I had ears, I was listening to Prince.

That was an artist in my mixed household that everybody could agree was good. So I came up listening through all his albums and also was listening to a lot of his inspirations as well. And that's really how I learned about music, was just listening to the radio. I never had any formal education, and I was just very curious about everything. And I was curious why Prince was so good.

And I just kept listening as if I was ever going to figure it out. I mean, he's good because he's good in the end. But he always was someone I went back to throughout my life and throughout my being a student of music. I would always go back to him because he was always reaching outside of genre and he was always just experimenting. And I just find experimentation really fascinating, especially when you're kind of experimenting within pop music. That makes it really interesting. You played in Paisley Park, right?

That's right. Can you tell the story of how that happened and what the experience was like? Yeah, so the Alabama Shakes are on tour. We're headed to Minneapolis, and we get this phone call, which is basically like Prince wants you to play Paisley Park tomorrow and I know that we needed to go to Canada or something like that but you know Prince calls you you make it work so we switched everything around on tour

go to Paisley Park and there's like some rules which is like no cussing and don't eat any meat you know anything like that no smoking and we get there and I mean it's just like this I just remember like walking um into this giant warehouse just like think of it like there's two parts to this warehouse and it's connected by this giant double door and when you first walk in there's like a a stage and there's like the motorcycle from Purple Rain. And also there's this giant projector on the wall that's playing the movie Madagascar, which is very strange. And we walk up to our dressing room and we all can't believe that we're here. We're all chattering.

Are we going to meet Prince? Are we going to meet Prince? And then, yeah, Prince sends an assistant to come grab us and i bring everybody with me it was like 15 of us and we all go and sit in his little studio and there he is and he's like wearing all beige and he's got some little beige toms on his feet and we sat down and we chatted and he was a very delightful and funny person he's like charming. He had this very deep voice and we're all laughing and chatting. And then he says, I really like that song you have, Give Me All Your Love. I'd like to play that with y'all tonight. What key is it in? And I panicked because I'm just drinking that in. I'm trying to process that. Prince wants to play

our song with us. He likes our song. There's a lot I'm going through. And I forgot what kid is in, but our guitar player Heath is like, it's an F sharp, whatever. He's like, okay, I'm going to come out and play that with y'all tonight. And I'm like, wow. So I'm going to fast forward. We're playing the show. It gets to the time where he's supposed to come join us on stage. So we're playing Give Me All Your Love, right? And it comes to the part about all the way like three quarters through the song it's the bridge section and i'm looking for prince and i'm not seeing him so i guess i went well he must have changed his mind that's okay it's a lot of pressure you know no no no prob so we start playing we go through the bridge all of a sudden

he just jumps out of nowhere i mean the stage must have been like six feet, he just jumps out of nowhere. I mean, the stage must have been like six feet tall. He just jumps up there like a gazelle. Now Prince is standing next to me. And I'm like, oh. So I tell the guys, I'm like, okay, okay. Just keep repeating the section. We're just going to do it over again. And he proceeds to just like play the most electrifying solo.

And everybody in the audience is so excited. And I'm so excited. And then me and him kind of swap solos a little bit. And then we end the song together. And he kisses me on the cheek. And he jumps off the stage and vanishes into thin air. And I never saw him again. It must have been thrilling.

Oh, it was thrilling, yeah. And then and then i mean i'm like on a high like i can't believe what just happened after the show you know so i'm next to the bus we're all loading it back up you know we're gonna head to canada and then i get a phone call and it's prince and he says did you have fun and i was like oh oh, I did have fun. Yeah, it was the best. You know, I'm geeking out. I'm trying to keep it cool, but it's leaking out of me like I'm giddy. Well, I'm glad you had that chance to work with him, be with him, be anointed by him. Somebody who is worthy of him.

Yeah. We're listening to Terry's interview with Brittany Howard. She fronted Alabama shakes before going solo. Her new album is called What Now? We'll hear more of their conversation after the break. I'm Tanya Mosley, and this is Fresh Air Weekend. So I want to play another song from What Now? And this is called Samson. And it's not quite a breakup song. It's an I can't make up my mind about whether to break up song, which seems to be a pattern. And it's about being split in two about what to do, whether to break up or not. Do you want to say something about writing

it before we hear it? I mean, I feel like I'm going to hit the nail on the head with this one. It's definitely in this position of trying to make a decision. And there's sort of a dreaminess when you don't know what to do. You're in your head a lot and you're in this space where you're playing out each scenario. So it's almost liminal. You're not really taking action. And that kind of puts you deeper in the spiral and in this dream state of overthinking, overanalyzing. And yeah, I just wanted to create a song that felt like that. So let's hear it. This is Samson from Brittany Howard's new solo album, which is called What Now? I'm splitting too I don't know what I want to do I'm splitting too Should I stick with you? I don't know how I'm gonna choose

I'm splitting too I don't wanna be here I don't wanna hurt you I know that I've been tripped out I know I need to come too I know I'm not the person you were introduced to And it's getting harder not to disappoint you

It's getting harder not to disappoint you I'm splitting too I don't know what I'm gonna do It's me or you I'm splitting too I don't know how I'm gonna tell the truth I'm gonna tell the truth I'm split in two

I can't get used to being who You need me to choose I'm split in two I'm split in two Oh, I'm split in two So that was the song Samson from my guest Brittany Howard's new solo album, What Now? So again, there's a few lines I really particularly like in this.

And here's a couple of them. I know I'm not the person you were introduced to, and it's getting harder not to disappoint you. And when you say I'm not the person you were introduced to, I was wondering if the person who was being referred to in the song, assuming that it's autobiographical in some way, if they were introduced to you as Brittany Howard in capital letters, like Brittany Howard, the powerful singer on stage, and then offstage, you're just Brittany Howard. Do you know what I mean? And if you felt that you were disappointing her because you weren't the onstage powerhouse when you were offstage. Yeah, you know, that's kind of the blessing and curse of being a well-known singer and performer. There's always the opportunity that they have to get to know

you before they know you. And they have this idea of who you might be. And I think there's this, you know, period of a few months where they're learning who you really are. And over time, I've become aware of that. And it's always scary because what if they don't actually like who I am and how I can have ups and downs too, like anybody else. It's not all bright lights and shiny, happy things happening. I'm a full, complex human being. And I really wanted to write a line about that scenario. I want to play another song from What Now, your new solo album. And this is a song called I Don't. You want to say a few words about writing it before we hear it?

Yeah, I Don't is a song I'd always wanted to write. It's basically just like, to me, it's like the antithesis of Stay High. It's like Stay High is all about singing this beautiful moment and having fun and being connected. And I Don't is about not even remembering what that feels like. Where was your head at when you wrote it? Too much work. I was working too much. And I just wanted to feel connected again. And so I wrote this song to just kind of make fun of myself a little bit. Let's hear it. I don't know. I don't.

I don't. Oh, I don't know. I can't be sure. Does anyone remember what it felt like To laugh all night Sleeping late Nothing to worry about

And I won't do anything Well, I don't I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't Oh, well, they don't play, they sing a very sad song That was I Don't from Brittany Howard's new album, What Now? So you have several different voices when you sing. And the voice on this seems to me to be influenced by soul singers, male soul singers who sang in falsettos, like say, Curtis Mayfield. Have those singers been an influence on you? Oh, yeah.

Like, absolutely. I love groups like that. I think this one, to me, is like Delphonics or the Aquatics. Yeah. Yeah, it was like these groups singing about love and singing so earnestly night after night, wearing the matching suits and having all the hand gestures down. There was something so romantic about it. It was such a time and a place and very nostalgic. A little Philly sound?

A little Philly sound. idea of that and the nostalgia of it into this nostalgic song about having fun and being connected to your friends and experiencing life with joy in it, not just like this black and white color of, I'm working, I'm working, I'm working. I can't see right now. I'm too tired. I'm working. You grew up in a small town in Alabama and your mother is white, your father is black. Alabama was such a hardcore segregated state. How much did you feel the after effects of that growing up? My parents did a really good job of protecting me until I was older and I could see things for myself.

When I was younger, it felt completely natural to have a family that's half black and half white. And I was loved by both and I loved them both. And would I say they were remarkably different? Not at the base. It's all about love and it's all about having fun with each other, enjoying each other, listening to music together, you know? And when I started getting older, like teenage years, started noticing that some of my schoolmates, you know, they're from different backgrounds, different colors. People would get upset when they would date each other. Or I can't tell my father I'm dating so-and-so because he'll get upset because so-and each other. Or I can't tell my father I'm dating so

and so because he'll get upset because so and so is black. There was that going to parties here in the N word. Don't invite them. What are you doing here? Well, you're not like that. I was just like, what the hell is going on out here? And it was like these curtains were rolled back and I was seeing a lot of racism and I thought it had just arrived. So I go to my mother and I'm like, I'm hearing these things and seeing these things. And did you experience this? And my mother just started telling me all these stories about what it was like raising us, like her being a white woman raising two little brown children and the look she got and the comments she got um her just trying to take us to the grocery store would be a whole like moment like at any time someone could come up to her and just say look what you've done i can't

believe you did that you know my mom went through a lot my father went through a lot as well it was like the whole community was against them because they you know because they fell in love were there places that were white or black neighborhoods where you didn't feel it was safe for you to go I mean listen there were definitely some places I didn't want to go um because I would be I would feel uncomfortable and those weren't ever the black spaces. I felt completely comfortable in the black spaces, but some, there were some white spaces, especially that belonged to, um, older white men that I knew that I would feel uncomfortable and would not be welcome in. And they would not talk to me or try to get to know me in any way or form.

I just kind of felt like an outlier. So I wouldn't put myself in those situations. I wouldn't go to those places. So you came out when you were 25. Where were you in your performing career at the time? 25. I feel like that's when the shakes were real big. We were getting some gold records and platinum records and things like that. It was going very well. You probably have different sets of followers. Do you feel like you developed a gay following, a queer following that felt like a community to you?

Oh, yeah, definitely. I mean, my favorite shows are the ones that are filled with queer people, gay people, trans people, all of these people that just know what it's like to not be accepted for who you really are. Because we get to join together and raise our voices and just being joyous to be seeing each other, especially seeing each other happy. It makes me emotional just thinking about those crowds, you know? You've recorded some tracks that sound, you know, kind of like dance music. I can easily hear it being played in a club. Was that something kind of new for you when you went solo? Yeah.

You know, I told myself, if you're going to go solo, you need to do whatever you want and however you want to do it. And I always told myself I was going to stick to that. It was such a large decision to make. And it was ultimately so I could just be creatively free. Free to fail. Free to not tour. Free to not make money.

Free to be successful just free you know and so I wanted to make a dance song because it felt good and that's what I did and I didn't stop myself from putting it on the album which do you think is the danciest of the dance songs definitely prove it to you is the four on the floor. Great. That's the one I was about to play next, so why don't we hear it? This is Prove It To You from Brittany Howard's

new album, What Now? What Now? Good. I fall so hard. I never get up. Don't hurt me. I can't take it no more. Make me ask what I'm doing it for Cause I love the way you make me feel I hope I'll do it for you, baby

All I wanna do is prove it to you All I wanna do is prove it to you. All I want to do is prove it to you. That was Prove It To You from Brittany Howard's new album, What Now? Do you dance? I do dance. Can you go to clubs anymore or are you too well known to do that? No. You know, I got a real nice level of fame. It's like just nice people come up and say,

oh, I love your work so much. Keep doing you. And then I go, hey, thank you so much. And it feels nice. And then I go about my business and it's wonderful it's really wonderful well that's great um finally before we have to end Brittany I'm wondering how your life as a performer compares with the life you imagined when you imagined what it was like to be a well-known performer hmm that's a very good question I I remember Zach Cockrell, he plays bass with me, bassist for Alabama Shakes. We used to stand on the porch of that haunted house I was telling you about. And after rehearsal, we'd stand on the porch and just kind of wrap it up, talk about what we want to change, what we want to do next week. And I remember I looked at him and I said, Zach, would you quit your job if we could actually have

the opportunity to go on tour? And he said to me, I don't know, maybe. I really like my job. He was working as a vet tech and that really blew my mind that he'd have to think about it. But I knew what I would do. I'd drop everything in a second just to be able to play shows, to actually play our music to people. So it blows my mind that now we headline festivals and we have sold out huge venues that I've met all these people that I admire. These other musicians that I have looked up to, can say that they admire me too. Never in my wildest dreams did I ever think that I would be interviewed by you, Ted Gross. And it's all been kind of a wonderful dream filled with ups and downs, and it's still going. I can never predict what's going to happen. And

that's my philosophy now. You never know. How do your parents feel about your success? Man, my parents are so proud. They're my biggest fans for sure. Especially my dad, because he wants to go to everything. My dad, KJ Howard, Athens, Alabama, shout out. I love him so much, man. He wants to go to all the events. He loves celebrities. He wants to take pictures with everybody. And I'm kind of not like that. I'm like a little more like internal, you know, but he very much wants to meet Eddie Murphy. He wants to meet, you know, Oprah. And so I take him with me and I kind of live vicariously through him. Did you meet Oprah and Eddie Murphy?

I met Eddie Murphy, but I was too shy to meet Oprah. But my dad, because she had big bodyguards, but my dad just walked right past some bodyguards and shook her hand. Yes, he did. Did you have to like apologize on his behalf? I didn't say anything. I just pretended like I didn't know him. Brittany Howard, it's been a pleasure to talk with you again. Thank you so much for coming back to Fresh Air. Thanks so much for having me. Always an honor and a privilege to be here.

Brittany Howard's new album is called What Now? She spoke with Terry Gross. Fresh Air Weekend is produced by Teresa Madden. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. With Terry Gross, I'm Tanya Mosley. Who's claiming power this election? What's happening in battleground states? And why do we still have the Electoral College? All this month, the ThruLine podcast is asking big questions about our democracy

and going back in time to answer them. Listen now to the ThruLine podcast from NPR.