Fresh Air - Best Of: Jenny Slate / Julio Torres

Episode Date: March 16, 2024

Jenny Slate talks about childbirth and motherhood, the subjects of her new comedy special, Seasoned Professional. She'll do the voices of some of her animated characters, including Marcel from her Oscar-nominated film Marcel the Shell with Shoes On.Also, we hear from comic/actor Julio Torres. Growing up in El Salvador as a gay atheist he says he felt like an alien. Then he literally was labeled an "alien" when he came to the U.S. on a student visa. He's drawn on those experiences to write, direct and star in the new satirical film Problemista.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

From W.H.Y.Y. in Philadelphia, I'm Terry Gross with Fresh Air Weekend. Today, comic and actor Jenny Slate talks about pregnancy, childbirth, and motherhood, the subjects of her new comedy special, Seasons Professional. She'll do the voices of some of her animated characters, including Marcel from her Oscar-nominated film, Marcel the Shell with Shoes On. Like, I can do it, like, whenever I want to, but probably at the end of a day of, like, recording it, I get, like, a little, I get tired. Also, we hear from comic actor and filmmaker Julio Torres.

Growing up in El Salvador as a gay atheist, he felt like an alien. He literally was labeled an alien when he came to the U.S. on a student visa and then tried to get a work visa. He's drawn on those experiences to write, direct, and star in the new satirical film Problemista. That's coming up on Fresh Air Weekend. This is Fresh Air Weekend. I'm Terry Gross. The first time I interviewed comic and actor Jenny Slate, she told me that when she was in her 20s, she felt like an imposter adult. That interview was 10 years ago, when Slate was 32. Now, she's a mother.

Her daughter was born during the COVID lockdown. Getting married, getting pregnant, and the pain and joy of giving birth are at the center of Slate's new comedy special, Seasoned Professional, which is streaming on Amazon. In her earlier Netflix comedy special, Stage Fright, I learned that she grew up in a house her family believed was haunted. Slate is back on her show, and there's lots more to talk about. She co-wrote and starred in the Oscar-nominated animated film Marcel the Shell with Shoes On, adapted from the web series that she co-created. She's done voice work for other animated films and TV shows, including Bob's Burgers, Big Mouth, The Lego Batman Movie, The Secret Life of Pets, and Zootopia. Although she was on just

a few episodes of Parks and Recreation, a lot of people know her for her role as Mona Lisa Saperstein, one of the Saperstein twins. She starred in the movie Obvious Child, which was the occasion for our first interview. Let's start with a clip from her new comedy special. Here she is talking about giving birth to her daughter. I had a baby. I'm not trying to skirt the issue, or, like, deny it. Like, I did it. I had a baby. I'm not trying to skirt the issue or like deny it. Like I, I did it.

I, I did it. She's there. But like, it does still feel like I'm like, it wasn't me. Like I did it. Like I, it's hard to wrap my mind around it. And like, I was pregnant for a long time and I understood that I was, but like, even on the way to the hospital when my body was like really hurting and stuff was starting to leak out I was just like kind of feels like someone's gonna sub in here though like it's just such an extreme experience that I just was like, I don't know. It just doesn't feel like something I would do, you know? Like, would I knock on someone's door after four dates at 2 a.m. and be like, I just need to tell you I'm in love with you.

Like, yeah. Extreme stuff, I've done it. But, like, this, I was like, oh, I don't know. It just doesn't seem like what she would do. And like anytime something's been hard or I haven't wanted to do it, like I've always just been able to quit or be fired. It just felt like, I just don't feel like this was meant to be sent. Like I wanted to have the baby, but I was like, did you mean for me to do this though? Like. Jenny Slate, welcome back to Fresh Air. That clip is so funny. Thank you. So I'm

wondering, you know, I said that in your 20s, you felt like an imposter adult. Now that you're a mother, do you feel like a genuine, actual, real adult? Well, I guess so. But I think I've also started to understand that that definition is like really rather subjective or it doesn't mean one thing. But do I feel capable? Do I feel like I'm supposed to be here doing what I'm doing? Yeah, I do. But I still have the same personality that I've always had. And that's rather, that's kind of a stunner, I guess. Who did you expect to be after you became a mother? calling her mom, but like, this is Jenny, you know, it's just Jenny. It's like, I think I thought, um, maybe some, I mean, I think the good thing is that my cheaper vanities have kind of fried off in the exhaustion and, um, and also the thing like seeing, you know, connecting with things

that are really, really meaningful, um, in parenting. And, um, but i think i just thought maybe i would be calmer or be given info that i definitely have not been uh given i have to keep finding it you know you say in your special that people think my perceived as too much? Being very sensitive. Let's see. Yeah, it's hard to think about it now. But I think because when I say it out loud, there's a part of me that's like, yeah, sensitivity, insecurity. But I think the main one is maybe not a feeling but a behavior. And it's the, like, constantly checking to see if the other person, how they're perceiving a situation. Or, like, what does your face mean? Why are you making that face?

It seems today that you have, like, a micro, a tiny micro bad mood. What's it about? What's going to happen? Why is it there? Is it going to lead to something worse? Is there something you're not sharing? Why aren't you sharing it? Is it because you're afraid that I can't take it? Is it because you think I'm not a strong person? Do you secretly not like being around me? Am I stressful? You know, and then that's very stressful. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Is that just all happening in your head or you're actually asking these questions to the other person? Oh, there's very little that happens in my head that's not going directly into my husband's face. And, but I also think that I've learned to be respectful about that. And, you know, there are some things that are harder for me to tolerate. Like I see

one flash of a thing and I'm like, what is that? You need to talk about it with me right now. But I will also say that I think that that's one of the things that my husband likes the best about because I really, I deeply respect him, but I also want to know him. And sometimes I don't feel that it benefits our relationship to let something pass for a certain amount of time without discussing it. But, you know, I bet sometimes he wishes that I could be a little more quote unquote, chill. You know, do we have to talk about it? Yeah. Like right when he's falling asleep? You know, does he need that? I actually know that that's like kind of a no, a don't do it zone, you know? Yeah. When you got into comedy, how old were you and what was your very early material like?

I was in the improv group at Columbia and that to me actually feels like the start of it, even though it was, you know, like a school activity. But that is really when I started to form as a comedian. Then I think when I was 23 was the first time that I started doing stand-up. And I believe the very first show that I did was about, like I was talking about working in retail and how much I disliked it. But I can't really remember what it was. But I do remember getting off stage and being like, but that was a weird fit. Like, why is it funny when I say things at dinner parties, but I'm not talking about that on stage? And very quickly, I was like, oh, that's what I'm supposed to do. I'm just supposed to do, you know, what I would do on a date or hanging out with a fun friend, a new friend, and I want them to know what my life has been. I already do this.

I already try to make people laugh in order to, like, engender a bond or a fondness. And so I just started going on stage and talking about my parents and my childhood. I think one of the main stories that I told over and over again, because I am fascinated by it, was how they, how they like got in a fight with a contractor who was working on our house. And there was like a hole in our roof because he was like, forget it. And he left. And how the bats, like we had just so many bats in our roof because he was like, forget it. And he left. And how the bats, like we had just so many bats in our house because we had like an open roof for a while. And like it really, it still makes me laugh. I won't talk about anything on stage if it's like a dead subject for me. Like I think of stand-up as, at least for me, you know, everybody does it differently.

But it's like a nugget of a story that I have. And the more I tell it, it starts to like get brighter and brighter. And then suddenly it reaches a peak and you can tell, you can feel the light like starting to go out. And sometimes something will, I'll be like, this is just a rock now. It's nothing. I don't want to talk about it anymore. It's not funny to me. I'm done. But then like 12 years will go by and suddenly I'll be like, oh yeah, remember that story about that girl that spit on my face at synagogue at Yom Kippur and I couldn't yell at her because it was the Day of Atonement. I'm like, that's ready to come back right now for me. I mean, like, I'm like, that's ready to come back right now for me.

I mean, I'm like, that's next, especially now that I have a daughter. I'm still thinking about all the bats and wondering, did you think a lot about like early vampire films? Because that's what I associate bats with. But also bats are famous for all the dung in bat caves. So did you end up with like dung on your bed or on the kitchen table? No. What happened was, so first of all, yes, vampires for sure.

I was so afraid of vampires as a little girl and had a recurring dream of like that Dracula was trying to fool me into allowing him into my room so that he could kill me, you know? And I had this like recurring dream where I would see a frog at the end of the bed and I'd be so pumped that there was a frog. Like, this is my personality, but I was so excited about this like big green frog. And I was just like, yes, this is so cool. I'm going to catch that frog. And then I would go towards it and he would be like, whoa. And it would be Dracula in like a tuxedo. And I'd be like, oh no, I'm dead. And then I'd wake up in a sweat. And so I got really, really frightened and I slept with my head under the covers, which became this like huge thing for my parents that they were like, you're going to suffocate, you're going to suffocate. And I just didn't care. Like I just, they told me this is like really unsafe, but, and they had my grandfather who was like, you know,

the guy, like I would listen to anything he said. And he was like, you're going to suffocate. And I was like, yep, got it. But I still did it. And then my dad, he would like really come out in the middle of the night in his nighttime apparel, which at the time was a very, very long nightshirt that he worked at the time at the computer company called Wang, which was like one of the first computer companies and it was called Wang. And he had this like shirt that said Wang on it. And he would run down the hallway with an old tennis racket and swat the bats against the hallway. And we had like bat blood on our wallpaper. I remember just being like, he got one, you know, like I'm just like instead of a mosquito, it was a bat. Yeah, just such a bummer, like just such an intense way to live and be. And I thought it was really funny. I talked about it on stage for so long because I was fascinated by it. Like, wow, I thought this was normal for so long that I didn't even think about it.

And now I realize that this was actually very specific. Now I'm thinking also about growing up in a house that your family, I mean, including your parents, especially your father, believed was haunted. Yeah. So tell us about that. You talk about that in your first comedy special. Yeah, I believe it was haunted, too. You know, take it or leave it. Like, everyone has their own opinions about the spirit world and apparitions. But yeah, my dad had, he had discovered a packet of love letters that were written to one of the previous owners of the house, but they weren't from her husband. They were from some sort of a captain of a ship. And when my parents first moved in, my mom woke up smelling pipe smoke and my dad smoked

a pipe at the time. And she called out to him to come to bed and then rolled over and realized that he was asleep. And so she woke him up and she was like, you left your pipe burning, you're going to burn down the house. And so he went out into the hallway and saw on the stairs, says he sort of saw it, but didn't see it, but he saw it, but he didn't see it. A man in sort of like a heavy, like, mariner's, like, seaman's jacket walking up the stairs. And there was a bunch of other stuff that happened. And I'm the only one that never saw anything, actually. Which in itself is scary to me, because I feel like there's like a backlog. You know, it's all going to like come at once.

So between the bats and your parents thinking you lived in a haunted house, that sounds like a horror film. Yeah, it does, doesn't it? Produced a comedian. My guest is comic writer and actor Jenny Slate. Her new comedy special, Seasoned Professional, is streaming on Amazon Prime Video. We'll hear more of our conversation after a break. I'm Terry Gross, and this is Fresh Air Weekend.

Let's get back to my interview with comic and actor Jenny Slate. Her comedy special, Seasoned Professional, is about getting pregnant, giving birth, and becoming a mother, and it's streaming on Amazon. I want to ask you about Marcel the Shell with Shoes On, which started as an animated web series that you created with your then... Were you still married when you created it,

or was he your boyfriend then? I'm trying to get the sequence right. Oh, yeah, we were just... Yeah, we were boyfriend and girlfriend when we made the first Marcel Lachelle short film. And remind me of his name. Dean Fleischer-Kamp. So you and Dean started the series as boyfriend and girlfriend, and then you were married, and then you divorced and continued the series together, which is another story. I should say that the film version started as a web series, and then the film adaptation, which you also did with Dean, was Oscar nominated for Best Animated Feature. How did you come up with the idea of having a shell as the leading character in the

story? Well, it started with me doing the voice. I was like just as a goof doing this voice. I was like doing a weird voice while we were... Can you do it for us? Yeah, I can do it right now. This is what it sounds like. Yeah. Okay. while we were at a wedding. And Dean had, he said he would make a video for a friend's comedy show, but he hadn't done it. And he was like, can I interview that voice? Basically, like we didn't have the character yet. And so we got him from the wedding. He interviewed me more. I said some more stuff. He had enough audio that it was like, oh, we're dealing with someone who's really small, it seems. And then he went to the local arts, like the craft store and the toy store in Brooklyn where we lived.

And he bought like a kind of like a knockoff of a Polly Pocket. It wasn't a Polly Pocket. It was sort of like a just a brand X one. And he did a bunch of different character designs. And finally he took some like molding, you know, like what would you call it? Like plasticine or like molding clay and put it in the shell hole and stuck the eye in there and glued the shoes on. And I came back to our apartment and he was like, I think this is the guy. And I was like, oh, yeah, that's the guy for sure. And so just kind of both of us feeling our way. But he is 100% responsible for the character design.

And I just think it's so, I just think Marcel looks perfect. I think he's a perfect looking creature. When you were creating Marcel's voice, I think you said it was a voice you'd used before? I think I had tried to use it one time when I was on SNL, but I vocally could not figure out how to hold on to it. And I had lost it. I couldn't find it. I couldn't do it, literally. And it was like, oh, great, like another failure here. And I mean, looking back on it, I'm really glad that I didn't spend that in that context, just because it led to so much more creative control for me to do it just outside of that community. But I, yeah, I suddenly just came back and I held on and I was able to click

into it. And the more I do it, the more I can can find it right away can you do it a little bit more so we can hear it yeah I mean you could probably just like I can I can do it like whenever I want to but um probably at the end of a day of like recording it I get like a little I get tired like my voice feels tired but it doesn't like hurt to do it or anything. But even doing it, it's almost like if a person were to do like repeated movements with their body, they get into like a more like clarified mental state. That's like kind of how I feel about it as well. It's such an earnest voice. I've heard you say that you talk to your daughter, your three-year-old daughter, sometimes in Marcel's voice. How did you start doing that? I talk in Marcel's voice sometimes without realizing it. A lot of times, like, there's a running commentary, like, especially if, you know, if we're in traffic or we're in a

line, it's really fun, you know, in a car with just my family to be like, oh, this is taking forever. You know, it's just, it's just like how to get into it. And she, the first time she heard it, like her, you know, she was like, what is that? What is that? And she thinks he lives inside of me, but that's not disturbing to her. She also knows what he looks like, but she never asked to see him. She just wants to talk to him. What do you tell her and Marcel's voice that's different from what you tell her in your voice? Marcel gets more info from her. So actually, as Marcel, I just ask her questions. You know, like, why didn't you like that sandwich? What was wrong with it? What happened at school today? Like, she'll give Marcel a bigger answer,

which is really nice. And then she likes singing with Marcel. Do you want to sing in Marcel's voice and tell us how you do that? Yeah. It's like, okay, this is one of the songs that Ida and I sing together. There's a bright golden haze on the meadow. There's a bright golden haze on the meadow. The corn is as high as an elephant's eye and it looks like it's climbing straight up to the sky. A song from Oklahoma. I love that song. Oh, what a beautiful morning.

It's the best. Yeah, okay. That's great. Is it hard to maintain the voice while you're singing? I think it's easier to sing in Marcel's voice than it is to speak in Marcel's voice. Why is that? I'm not sure. I really actually don't know. I do a lot of voice work, but I'm not in any way a trained performer. I've not been to like an acting conservatory or singing classes or, you know, nothing. So I'm just kind of, I'm just working with whatever I have. Jenny Slate, it's been great to talk with you again. Thank you so much for coming back on the show. Thank you for having me back. It's really nice to, it's always nice to be invited in once, but I always say it's the return, you know, that means that you're okay.

You're more than okay. Thank you so much for having me. You're great. This is a real pleasure. Thank you. Jenny Slate's new comedy special, Seasoned Professional, is streaming on Amazon Prime Video. My next guest, Julio Torres, is a comic actor and writer. You may know him from his comedy specials on HBO and Comedy Central, from the short films he used to do on Saturday Night Live,

his bits as a correspondent on The Tonight Show, and as a writer and actor on the HBO series Los Espookys. Now he's making his debut as a movie director with his new satirical film Problemista, which he also wrote and stars in. Emma Stone is a producer of the film. Isabella Rossellini is the narrator. RZA co-stars. Problemista draws on Torres's own experiences as an immigrant from El Salvador trying to overcome the financial and bureaucratic obstacles of the U.S. immigration system. Torres plays an immigrant from El Salvador whose visa is running out and needs a job, someone to sponsor him, and money for the lawyers and fees that the renewal requires. Tilda Swinton plays Elizabeth, a potential problem solver, because she offers to sponsor him if he's able to get a museum or gallery show and sell the work of her late husband, which she needs to pay his leftover bills.

But she's also a problem creator, demanding the impossible and arguing with everyone. As she keeps assigning more impossible tasks for Alejandro, he's also facing the many problems created by the immigration system. One day, with little time left on his visa, he goes to an ATM and finds his bank account is worse than empty. He actually owes the bank money, a fee, because he's overdrawn. Here he is in a scene with a customer service rep from the bank. I'm sorry, but that's just not the amount I should have. According to my calculations, that is not the amount I should have in my account. What balance were you expecting?

Well, I don't know. Zero would be great. Just get me to zero. Again, every time you overdraft, the bank must impose a penalty of $35. So what, like an $8 sandwich becomes a $45 sandwich? $43. Again, that's the policy, Mr. Martinez. That makes absolutely no sense.

I distinctly recall making a cash deposit. And that deposit was flagged as potentially fraudulent, so it's on hold now. For your protection. Right. But then that hold made me overdraw. For your protection. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, but do I seem protected right now? Why would he let this happen?

Why not just have my card get declined? That's not the way things work. But that is the way things should work. Otherwise, the bank is just benefiting from my misfortune. From the misfortune of people who can't afford to make any mistakes. From people who have no margin of error. It's policy. It is what it is. No. No.

Look at me. Just look at me. I know that you can at me. Just look at me. I know that you can hear me. I know that you can hear my voice when I tell you that I know that this is not your fault. You didn't do this. The bank did this. And there is no reason for you to be defending them to me. Please, please, at this point, I'm not even asking for my money back.

I'm just asking for you to tell me that you agree with me because I know that you do. I know that there's still a person in there, and I know that she can hear me. Please. I stand with Bank of America. Okay. Julio Torres, welcome to Fresh Air. I love the movie.

Thank you for being here. Thank you so much for having me. You like magic realism. And what's happening in the scene, the scene kind of switches from reality to what's happening in his mind, like how he's experiencing the scene. And he's actually being kind of choked between the arms of a monster

while she's telling him that it's the bank policy and then finally shoots him. So your film keeps kind of alternating between what's happening in reality and what Alejandro is actually experiencing. So I take it you like magic realism or fairy tales, because it's also like a fairy tale, the kind of fairy tale where there's horrible things happening. Yeah, I mean, it just happens to be the way that I am comfortable and feel able to explain feeling and just sort of get to the truth of my experience. I don't sit down and think, oh, I want to write something that's fantastical. In fact, I tend to want to write something that's very grounded in reality. And these flourishes just sort of come out as a way of explaining that. What's the closest you've come to the experience in the scene that we just heard?

Obstacles you ran into in the immigration bureaucracy that you thought was particularly absurd? I mean, all the catch-22s of the immigration system, the needing to pay for a visa, but not being allowed to work for it, which implies you should have had the money from somewhere else that isn't working, even though the reality of so many people in this country, and especially immigrants in this country, is living paycheck to paycheck. You know, it's like, the fact that I would have $6,000 saved somewhere is just laughable. And that's what it takes to renew the visa? I mean, when I was doing it, yeah. I don't doubt that it's more expensive now.

In my experience, around $6,000, which includes the government fees, but also the fees for the lawyer, that because it's such a complex system, you don't want to get rejected because you failed something wrong. And they certainly make it so you're dependent on lawyers. So the film takes place during the time of me transitioning from a student visa to a work visa. But even when I was moving on from a work visa to an artist visa, which is the last visa I had, part of the requirement was to show that I had an established career in the U.S. that warranted an artist visa. But at the same time, I had to throw the needle of not making it seem like I had been working and making money as an artist because that would have been illegal because I didn't have an artist visa yet.

You had a student visa? Originally, I came to the U.S. with a student visa, and then I had a work visa, and then I had to go from a work visa to an artist visa because under the work visa, I wasn't able to earn money as a stand-up comedian or writer or anything creative because that's not what the work visa is for. Well, that does seem to be a catch-22. How did you get around that? By showing a wealth of experience that had come for free, that had come from earning no money, which is sort of like the only way that you can thread that needle.

What did you do for no money? Oh, I mean, the irony of that is that it's not hard to establish a reputable career as an artist for no money. That is very true. That's how I started in public radio even. Yeah, so it's not that big of an issue to show that you've done hundreds of shows for free, because that is the truth of pursuing something creative. By that point, I had done enough stand-up that getting the artist visa was not that difficult. What was difficult was, again, getting the money for it. And that was the second time that I was trying to get money for a visa. But this time around, I had made so many friends who actually encouraged me to make a GoFundMe, which I found to be humiliating.

I did not like the idea. Wait, but they did it funny. So that made it good, I think. They did it funny. They did it funny, yes. They made a video called Legalize Julio. And they make a plea on your behalf that you should be able to stay in the U.S. and you need money to do it, so help him.

Yes, yeah. And it was sold within a matter of hours. This girl funded me, got me where I needed to be within two or three hours. It was just so moving to feel like a part of a community. And that's when I really, really realized that I love making art and all a part of a community. And that's when I really, really realized that I love making art and all kinds of work in community and with friends. And that's why

so many of my really close friends are in this movie and will continue to be in everything that I do. My guest is Julio Torres. He wrote, directed, and stars in the new film Problemista, which is now playing in select theaters. We'll hear more of our conversation after a break. I'm Terry Gross, and this is Fresh Air Weekend. Let's get back to my interview with Julio Torres. He wrote, directed, and stars in the new, hard-to-categorize satirical film Problemista. It's based in part on his own experiences as an immigrant from El Salvador trying to get his visa renewed. So I want to get to the title of your movie, which is problemista. And I thought like, I'm not sure if that's a real word or if it's a word that you made up, because it's a great word. So I actually looked it up in a few places. And what it said was that it's a word for somebody who creates problems or solves problems. And it's especially used in chess. But I was talking to you about this right

before the interview started. And you said you didn't even know it was a word. You kind of made it up because it sounded like this is something that would be a word and it described a lot of your movie. So tell me about Problemista from your perspective. Yeah, I mean, to preface it, the road to finding a title for the movie was long. It had many titles during many different points and none of them felt completely right.

And then at one point, we were toying with the idea of calling it problema, which is just literally means problem. And then I just, I don't know, I just felt dread calling this movie problem because it just felt so dreary, and that's not the tone of the movie at all. So then I was trying to find something a little bit more playful and I was thinking of what you would call someone in an artistic movement in Spanish, like a surrealist is a

surrealista. And then I thought, well, then maybe someone who creates art from problems is a problemista. So I just sort of, I just sort of made it up. And it sounds like, it almost sounds like the kind of thing that you'd make up in, in slang in El Salvador, sort of in the way that like, you know, you hear about people being fashionistas or maxinistas. It's like, oh, a problemista is someone who is attracted to problems or thrives within problems. So Alejandro is both a problem creator and a problem solver. There's a whole lot he doesn't know how to do and he just kind of fakes his way through. Since this movie is about problem solvers and

problem creators and people who make art out of problems, where are you on that spectrum? I am someone who is certainly attracted to problems and ends up making work inspired by those problems. Give me an example. Well, this movie. What was the problem? I mean, obviously, the bigger problem that was solved by the time I made this movie was the visa problem. And how that ended up not being a hurdle that I had to overcome to then move on and make work. That ended up being the thing that I made the work about. And just sort of the joy that I found in dealing with that problem. You know, this movie deals with the problem of immigration, but I think of it as a very silly, happy, and joyful movie

that just sort of, it's almost like the bureaucracy becomes this bouncy castle that the characters just get to play and laugh about. And then there's also just the the fact that like it's my my first movie and i made something that is so uh ornate for lack of a better word i was like oh okay so this is why people's first movie are usually smaller um yeah no no, no, that's right. That's right. Because you have, like, animation. You have, like, special sets you've designed.

And little worlds that you've designed. And monsters that you've created. It's a lot for a first film. It's a lot. I really didn't. Oh, and you have some real stars in it, too. Yes. Yeah.

I mean, thank God none of them are high-maintenance people. But to be completely honest, now that I look back on it, I think that I didn't take for granted the access that I felt was granted to me by making a movie. And I didn't take for granted the fact that I would ever be able to make another one. So I was like, why would I make a little preview of what I could do? Why not just go all in? So continuing with the theme of Problemista, the Tilda Swinton character is a real problem creator. Her only way of relating is through arguing and making accusation. Her approach to life is to get what you want become a problem. And part of her philosophy is always send back the food. So I want to play a scene where your character is in a restaurant with her. And this is at the point where

she's throwing all these problems at him to get a show for her late husband's paintings. And these are often insurmountable problems. So they're meeting at a restaurant. She's not going to sponsor him until he succeeds. So meanwhile, the waiter comes in and you both order salads. It's a goat cheese salad and you ask for it without the cheese. And then you're finishing your salads when the waiter comes back, and that's where we pick up. And here's Tilda Swinton starting off. Was there something wrong with your salad, Alejandro? Oh, no. No, no, it's fine. It's just I can't help noticing that they neglected to hold the cheese as we specifically asked them to. Oh, I don't think you said no cheese.

I'm sorry. We did, and this young gentleman cannot eat cheese. It's fine. You tell him. I'm vegan. He's allergic. To goat cheese or... Everything.

Oh, I apologize. We'll refund the salad. Well, that's not what we want. Okay, I just don't know what else I could do. I can't go back in time. Fetch somebody else who would say something different. I'll get my supervisor. Oh, you're going to hold us hostage now?

Okay, so get my supervisor or don't. Those are the choices. I either get him or I don't get him. Okay. So there's something so quintessentially New York about Tilda Swain's character. And I was wondering, like, did you know people like her in El Salvador? Or was this a new kind of creature for you? Oh, I had actually never thought of that.

No, I don't think I ever really encountered this kind of, as you put it, creature, in El Salvador. No. Or, at the very least, I was never in the receiving end of this kind of creature in El Salvador. And in New York? And in New York, boy, I was. Tell me more. I mean, she's an amalgamation of so many people that I met.

I think that it's almost like the artist's rite of passage in New York City, at least, to wind up being the assistant to so many people who are just so flustered by the fact that they haven't figured out so much. And I was a short-term assistant for so many people. And I, okay, so another part of me also identifying as a problemista is that I am very attracted to difficult people. I don't see difficult people as nightmares to escape.

I'm really drawn to them like a moth to a flame. And then there are more than a few that I came to really, really, really empathize with and appreciate. And I think that Tilda's character is rooted in that. And also, to be completely fair about it, whenever I was an assistant, it was in the receiving end of the wrath of these art world egos. I also acknowledge that I was a very incompetent assistant. I have zero attention to detail and I can barely keep my own life on track. So the fact that I was ever tasked with doing that for someone else is just a recipe for disaster. Why do you think you're attracted to difficult people? I don't know the why yet.

I haven't gotten that far in therapy. An example that recently happened was I had this pair of pants that I needed to get tailored. And I asked a friend if she knew of someone who'd make that kind of a repair and she suggested this tailor that was like pretty close to where the both of us live and she's like yeah yeah I've gotten pants tailored there and he's great and then I googled also like tailors near the area and there was this one tailor that was farther away and had one star reviews and my gut reaction was like oh I should go, oh, I should go to this one.

I should go to this one because he is probably brilliant, but people just don't get it. And I will go. And it's not that I'm going to fix him because I don't think there's anything to fix. It's I will see what nobody else sees and then i will convince other people that we shouldn't be trying to change him that we should actually reinvent how we think of tailoring wow this is really a leap and then my friend was just like, Julio, just no. This is like the person who's sure that they're going to change their boyfriend or girlfriend into a totally different human being to fit their needs. Well, okay.

So I was thinking about that comparison and I honestly don't think that I want to change anyone so that they fit in the world. I think that sometimes I want to change the world so that they can accommodate those janky edges of a person. Do you feel like you have a lot of edges like that? Yeah, I do think so. Is that why you're attracted to difficult people, because you think you're difficult? Well, maybe we're getting to the heart of it.

The mother in the film seems just, like, wonderful. She and the Alejandro character, your character, live in the countryside in El Salvador. And she builds, like, a fort for him. I should mention here that your actual mother is a designer and architect. So you grew up probably in a very visual world, which certainly serves you well as a filmmaker and as a comic. Yeah, so early in the film, we see keep him safe and sound and away from danger.

And this sort of magical little structure that's in the movie was designed by my mother, by my real mother. Wow. And I love having a piece of her in what I do. When you were young, maybe 11, your grandfather died with a lot of debt that your father inherited. So your parents needed money, so they moved from San Salvador, from the city, to I think the outskirts of the city in a much more rural setting. How did you like moving to the place that I think was the farm And I remember, I can't remember who it was, if it was my mom or dad,

but they kept selling it to me with, there's so much space, you'll be able to fly a kite. And I kept thinking, when the hell have you ever seen me fly a kite? Like, what is this fly a kite fantasy? But no, I did not like it, even though it was beautiful. I mean, it was in the countryside when my mother was growing up there. But by the time that we moved there, it was surrounded by industrial warehouses. It was very industrial setting.

And there was a brick factory next door. But this plot of land was still like a little oasis. But no, it was just far from the city and the commute was long. And there's also something very adolescent about disliking anything that makes you different from your peers. And I think that's a little bit of what I was experiencing that because we lived far and in this sort of like weird area that I had yet another thing that made me different and yet another thing that I had to like hide. What else were you hiding?

I mean, even though I didn't even have words for it, the fact that I'm gay. And you know what I was really hung up on? You know what was what felt to me like the boiling secret in my chest growing up is the fact that I already identified as an atheist. And hearing people talk about God made me very uncomfortable. And the school I went to was technically secular, but everyone was very religious. It was a very Christian, mostly Catholic environment. And I have always been pretty uncomfortable by ritual and sort of like unquestioned beliefs. So I felt like that was

like a secret that I was hiding. So what were you afraid of if they found out that you didn't believe in God? That was like yet another reason for me that like pointed out to the fact that I was so different and didn't fit in. And I was already like a picky eater. And I already was interested in, I was already disinterested in what most of my peers were interested in. So I felt like it would just further push me to the fringes. I just felt like I couldn't really like emotionally connect to my peers and my surroundings in a way that was very alienating. Like I was so disinterested in watching like a game of soccer and that felt like something that like connected so many of the boys around me or playing a sport or i i just have always felt like a little alien

and then coming to new york and being legally labeled as an alien oh yes of course that's right uh because that is the term they use it's it's. It's like you have an ID and it says alien. It just sort of solidified this point of view. And I think that I will forever be attracted to people who don't quite fit in and realizing that those people are not just foreigners. Because I do think of Tilda's character, Elizabeth, as also just this weird misfit toy in this movie. Being in a Catholic country, were you afraid to say that you were an atheist? Did that make it harder when you were a teenager to be gay?

I was not even thinking about it. I was like, if I start thinking down that road, nothing good will come of that. So I'm just going to put a pin on that. A pin on being gay or a pin on being... A pin on being gay and talking about it. And I'm just going to live how I live. And I really felt like I was just waiting to leave. And...

Is that part of the reason why you felt you needed to leave? Actually, no. Again, it's always obviously been a part of me, but living a creative life and doing the kind of work that I want to do was the driving force. And then my personal life has always fallen by the wayside up until, like, in the year or so that inspired this movie Problemista, I was so laser focused on getting a visa. And I wasn't really interested in friendships or dating or anything because I felt like I needed to put my humanity on hold to pursue this thing.

In fact, during the time when I was trying to get a work visa, I made up a rule for myself where I would only wear black and white because I felt like color was too distracting and I felt like I hadn't earned color and I felt like I could wear colors maybe once I got a visa and I had more breathing room to think about other things that wasn't just getting that. Julio Torres, it has been great talking with you. Thank you so much for coming on our show. Thank you for having me. Julio Torres wrote, directed, and stars in the new film Problemista. Fresh Air Weekend is produced by Teresa Madden. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham.

Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Amy Sallet, Phyllis Myers, Roberto Shorrock, Anne-Marie Boldenato, Sam Brigger, Lauren Krenzel, Heidi Saman, Thea Chaloner, Seth Kelly, and Susan Yakundi. Our digital media producer is Molly C.V. Nesper. Our co-host is Tanya Mosley. I'm Terry Gross. This message comes from NPR sponsor Grammarly. What if everyone at work were an expert communicator?

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