Fresh Air - Best Of: Making 'The Piano Lesson' / Selena Gomez

Episode Date: November 30, 2024

A new film adaptation of the Pulitzer Prize-winning August Wilson play The Piano Lesson is now on Netflix. It's about a brother and sister battling over what to do with a family heirloom piano. Denzel Washington and his daughter Katia served as producers, and his sons John David and Malcolm starred in and directed it. The brothers talk about bringing the play to the screen. Also, we hear from Selena Gomez about the Spanish-language musical Emilia Pérez. Gomez plays the wife of a brutal drug cartel leader who decides to undergo gender-affirmation surgery. Film critic Justin Chang reviews blockbusters Wicked and Gladiator II.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Support for this podcast and the following message come from Autograph Collection Hotels, with over 300 independent hotels around the world, each exactly like nothing else. Autograph Collection is part of the Marriott Bonvoy portfolio of hotel brands. Find the unforgettable at autographcollection.com. Hi, it's Terri Gross. Before we start our show, I want to take a minute to remind you that it's almost Giving Tuesday, which is so named because it's become a day of expressing gratitude by giving money or any kind of help to an individual or group or

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Today, John, David, and Malcolm Washington join me to discuss bringing the August Wilson Play the Piano lesson to the screen for Netflix. It's about a brother and sister battling over what to do with the family heirloom piano. And the production of it was a family affair that included their sister Katia and their father Denzel Washington, who both served as producers. We also hear from Selena Gomez.

She stars in the new Spanish language musical, Emilia Perez. Gomez plays the wife of a brutal drug cartel leader who decides to undergo gender affirmation surgery. Gomez had to relearn Spanish to take on the role after losing her fluency as a kid. And film critic Justin Chang reviews Gladiator 2 and the musical Wicked. That's coming up on Fresh Air Weekend. This message comes from Wyse, the app for doing things in other currencies.

Send, spend or receive money internationally and always get the real-time mid-market exchange rate with no hidden fees. Download the Wyse app today or visit wyse.com, T's and C's apply. This message comes from Lady Mafia. This is the story of the glorified loan shark swimming in the murky waters of fast money and shady deals. Did she blow $10 million of other people's money? Lady Mafia is available for listening now on The Binge,

wherever you get your podcasts. Support for this podcast comes from the Neubauer Family Foundation, supporting WHYY's Fresh Air and its commitment to sharing ideas and encouraging meaningful conversation. This is Fresh Air Weekend, I'm Tanya Mosely. And today my guests are Malcolm and John David Washington. The brothers collaborated on the late August Wilsons' The Piano Lesson for the screen on Netflix.

It's the fourth play in Wilsons' American Century Cycle, a series of ten plays that captures the Black American experience through every decade of the 20th century. Malcolm serves as the director, and John David stars as the brash, impulsive, and fast-talking boy Willie, who wants to sell the family piano to buy land in Mississippi that his family was enslaved on. The family battle ensues between boy Willie and his sister Bernice, played by Danielle Dedweiler, who wants the family to hold on

to the piano, a family heirloom engraved with their ancestors' faces. The production of this film was a family affair. The brothers' sister Katya and their father, Oscar-winning Denzel Washington, are producers, and Denzel, who starred and co-produced in Wilson's Fences, has committed to adapting Wilson's plays into 10 films. Their mother, Pauletta Washington, even appears in the movie, starring as Mama Ola. The Piano Lesson is Malcolm Washington's

directorial debut for a feature film, and John David portrayed Boy Willie in the Broadway revival of The Piano Lesson. He's also starred in several films, including Spike Lee's Black Klansman and Christopher Nolan's time travel mind bender Tenet. John David and Malcolm Washington, welcome to Fresh Air. Thank you for having us.

Hello. Yeah, thank you. That was quite an introduction. I was like, whoa. Well, I want to get right into our discussion about the film by playing a clip and the story takes place in 1936. Bernice played by Danielle Deadweiler lives in Pittsburgh with the piano and her brother, boy Willie, played by Hugh John David is a sharecropper in their hometown of Mississippi and he's

driven up to Pittsburgh in hopes of persuading Bernice to sell and their uncle played by Samuel L. Jackson explains why Bernice won't do it. He speaks first. Let's listen. Bernice ain't gonna sell that piano, because her daddy died over it. Oh, that's in the past. If my daddy had seen where he could have traded that piano, and for some land of his own, we'd be sitting up here now. We spent this whole life farming somebody else's land. I ain't gonna do that.

That was my guest today, John David Washington, with Samuel L. Jackson and the Netflix film The Piano Lesson directed by my other guest, Malcolm Washington. And you know, this is such a Black American story that endures that yearning to pass down items of value up against this very real and often desperate need to sell for practical reasons or in Boy Willie's case to gamble towards this American dream of owning land. And I want to start by asking you, Malcolm, what was it about this story that you felt was not only enduring, but an urgent one that needed to be retold now?

Yeah, I think it's really, really, really important for people to learn their history, both ancestral and just culturally, know where you come from and acknowledge it because we're living in a time where people are trying to rewrite history or erase people from history and their contributions. So it's kind of incumbent upon all of us to reclaim our stories, you know, and proclaim them and declare them who we are as a people, who we are as a culture and identity. All these things are super urgent to reclaim. You also wanted to bring a modern touch to this. And I mean, August Wilson is one of the greatest play rates of our time. So, I mean, this material is just right. But I can imagine that's also intimidating, possibly. What was your first step in bringing your director's touch to

what is well-established material? Yeah, it was intimidating, but it was also very exciting. The first step was putting this in a context, right, a historical context, understanding the moment that the play was written in, the moment that it's speaking to, that it's set in. It was about learning as much as I could about August Wilson, his considerations as a writer, who he was as a man, where he's from, what he stood on, his belief system.

Understand all these things about him and his intentions so that you can kind of pass it through the prism of yourself and bring your voice to it, but always trying to serve this kind of bigger thing. John David, in the scene that we played, you were in character with Samuel L. Jackson, who actually originally played Boy Willie in 1987. And in this film, he plays the uncle to Bernice in Boy Willie.

His performance, it's quiet, it's contemplative. He exudes kind of like this wise knowing as he watches you. And for me, it was a little bit emotional. I'm like going through this moment where I'm looking at all of our actors as we move through time and they age. It was just emotional to watch knowing his history with the character. What was it like for you to watch him watch you, both in the Broadway version and in this movie? That's an interesting observation because I think that was happening for me too, just

his relationship to the play which he's been very public about and what he represents as a black African American actor in this industry. There was a lot of things working at the same time. Well we can start with the word intimidating. Right. Pressure-filled is some words also that come to mind when thinking about or reflecting about my experience, particularly on stage every night, saying these words

that he's perfected, that he helped sort of erect and get to Broadway. So there was a lot of pressure there. But I felt so encouraged because of how he supported us. As I gradually got into it and grew into the character, I realized how much, how beneficial it was for me to hear those stories and infuse that into the motivation of getting this thing as true as possible.

He was supportive of you guys talking to you about like the industry and the craft, but did he talk to you about this character? Or did he leave that to you to interpret it? Things that were working, he would comment on. I never thought to do it that way, or I never thought about it this way. And he said that, and if you know Mr. Sam Jackson,

he's a tough critic, so any kind of positive feedback from him is like, I'm taken to my grave. If I never work again, I know Sam Jackson like the choice I made, you know what I mean? So in that regard, yeah, he was influential in my encouragement of I'm on the right track. I'm really curious, John David, why do you think actors in particular

are drawn to Wilson's work kind of as a way to deepen their craft? I'm thinking about all of the actors that are really well known today who have gone through and done these plays. Courtney B. Vance, James Earl Jones, Viola Davis, your father Denzel, so many others. What is the gravitational pull? I think so often we have to dig when we find really good writing, great writing.

We still have to dig these names you're talking about. We have to dig, we have to find it, we excavate, we research, and we have to meet a lot of the writing, the really good writing, somewhere. August Wilson comes to us, and it's a relief when you get a voice that is yours, when you get a voice that is somebody you're related to, when you get an experience that both a 50-year-old, a 20- to 40-year-old man have. There's so many specific moments in our culture that he accurately depicts. I'm talking about when every N-word is properly placed.

There's magic to that, to be honest. If we meet August Wilson with our best and most honest self and experience, you will come out a different actor. If you're just joining us, my guests today are John David and Malcolm Washington. We're talking about their new film, The Piano Lesson. We'll continue our conversation after a short break. I'm Tonya Mosleyley and this is Fresh Air Weekend. This is Fresh Air Weekend. I'm Tonya Mosley. Let's get back to my interview with Malcolm and John David Washington. The brothers have taken on the late playwright August Wilson's play, The Piano Lesson for the Screen. The production of this film was a family affair.

The brothers' sister Katya and their father, Denzel Washington, are the film's producers. Denzel has committed to adapting Wilson's plays into 10 films. The plays capture the Black American experience through every decade of the 20th century. Your names, Malcolm and John David, where do those names come from? I can kind of guess with Malcolm, but I want to be sure. Well, I guess I'll start, because mine's a little more controversial, if you will. Yeah.

I found out later, what I mean is, I'll explain. So John David, from what I thought known until I was about 17 was my Uncle David and my great grandfather John. One night after a victory, it was a high school football game and we beat our rivals and we're one game away from state championship. We're very excited. We're all happy.

We're home celebrating and just screaming out loud how great of a victory it was. And my father went in his joy and great glee, he says, that's why I named you John David after John David Crowe, a football player. And the record scratched. Because I guess that was the first time my mom heard that. Definitely first time I heard that. I didn't mind it. That's cool.

But mom was like, what? And then she got quiet. And it's interesting how quietness can bring on more anger than yelling. And you could tell she was disturbed by that a little bit. She was like, but Denzel, I thought it was named after David, your brother, and grandpa John. And he's kind of like, yeah, yeah, but, but. But the truth is, really. Combination.

Yeah, so they had different stories on it. There's different stories. Malcolm X, is that who you were named after or not? Actually no. No, I'm named after, he's a cousin of mine, but our dynamic and age, he's like an uncle. My cousin Malcolm from Eden, North Carolina. All right, big ups to cousin Malcolm. Yeah.

I noticed- And John David Crowe, by the way. And John David- Yeah, exactly. Don't leave John David Crowe out. Right, that's right. That's right. Both cousins, right.

Right. You know, I noticed how in interviews, both of you guys, you kind of say it offhandedly, but you regularly rep Los Angeles as your hometown. And I wanna know what does it mean for the both of you to identify not only as Angelenos, but you know, your black Angelenos, and then you also come from like a very privileged section

of that then as well. I mean, how did growing up here influence your art and your taste? I love LA so much. I think LA is just an incredible city. There's so many amazing cultures that come together there that it's like, it's a place that's both a physical place and metaphysical in that when people think about like there's an idea of what LA is and then there's kind of a lived experience of what LA is, like that it operates on a couple different fronts.

Um, I think that it, like, functions kind of like how Pittsburgh functions in our story, The Piano Lesson, where it's a place, especially for Black people, it's a place where, um, in the Great Migration, so many Black people came in search of opportunity to build a new life, to build themselves up. So it's a place built off of not only the hopes, but the labor of dreams. You know, like somebody had to build that place. And I think that it lives in that, you know.

You know, as a kid growing up in the 90s, your father Denzel, Spike Lee, Samuel L. Jackson, I'll even throw in like Eddie Murphy and just so many people, they played such a big role in the construction of Black Pride for so many, myself included. And I'm just, I really wanna know how that felt internally to grow up among it and in it. Like was Black history and Black pride also something that your parents

instilled in you in the way that like just to the public they were instilling in all of us? Absolutely, you know, I grew up with such a strong consciousness. And you got to remember, like, I grew up in the era of my dad having played Malcolm X, you know, so I identify with Malcolm X as a figure. I identify with that part of our story. And growing up in LA in the 90s, post LA uprising, you know, where black people are, have a voice, they're fighting for something, they're believing in something, they're saying something. I connected to that so much. So that, it's like how Boi Willie says, you know, I was born in a time of fires.

I feel that too, you know, that resonates with me from both the creative artistic movements that were happening at the time, the political movements that were happening at the time, of people declaring themselves and who they are at the time. And so all of those things live in me. And I'm happy that my parents had such a pride in our culture, have such a respect for it, and instilled that in us. Yeah. John David.

Yeah. I was just thinking about your question in my childhood. My first time I played pot warner football, tackle football, was Ballin' Hills. Ballin' Hills is a neighborhood in Los Angeles for those who don't know. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. But yet I was going to school in the Valley. I remember the first time I got chased down by some Crips in Los Angeles with a friend of mine. I remember the first time I got chased down by some Crips, you know, in Los Angeles with a friend of mine. You know, I remember the first time being asked, where are you from?

You know, and where are your mom and all that. Like there's a Kendrick part of it too. He's like, well, where your mom stay? Where your grandma stay? I've experienced that before, you know, at Magic Johnson's movie theater. So it's just such that. What would you tell people? Because I mean, were you saying, oh, I'm Denzel Washington's son?

I would absolutely not say that. You know, it was funny, like, and it was depicted in the wood, like the character says, North Carolina, I would say that I'm like, I'm actually, I would deny where I would deny where I was from and say I was from another state a lot of times. But I forget why they were chasing us that one time. It was a friend of mine. I don't know, you know why. I didn't know why, actually. I'm not gonna call him out here. But I think about some of those memories of my LA experience, because it is an interesting one because of the blends of cultures that I was able to experience.

Going to private school, yet playing ball, balling hills, having friends that lived in different neighborhoods. I just got a full course meal in diversity. I want to ask you guys about something else. And I want to see if I can formulate it right. But like, how do you deal with the heat of fandom and desire? Because I mean, your dad, for instance, is not only a great actor.

You're already laughing. But your dad's already already know, of course, he's a great actor. But he's also like every mom and every auntie's crush and Find it finding every generation right every generation right and now you guys are continuing the torch I actually just picked up an LA magazine and John David. You're on the cover. Yeah, like a sex symbol, you know Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, let the people know I'm just curious looking like a sex symbol, you know? Oh yeah, oh yeah, let the people know. Oh boy, just let them not know, okay? Let's...

I'm just curious. What's the question? Yeah, what's the question? She's like, that's it, that's it. Yeah. Period, no. Period, yeah. What did, like, I'm wondering, what did your dad teach you

or what lessons did you learn from watching him when it comes to navigating that energy and that heat that, like, throngs of fans throw towards you. Because I can't even imagine what your DMs might be like. Oh my God. Who's listening to this? Let's keep it...

No, honestly, what I think about childhood memories, my dad bringing home a trumpet. I remember him, he dyed his hair red, getting ready for Red in Malcolm X. Yeah. Him walking me around the streets of New York reciting Shakespeare when he was getting ready for Richard the Third. So I've always been fascinated with that. My mom sat down and played a number, a classical number on the piano without reading the notes. I think about that, of that really.

I think that's the relationship., of, of that really, I think that's the relationship, that's what was being taught. It seems like it was always, to me, it's always been about the work. That's what they both teach us. They both teach you that, but like, there's no denying that there's also that other thing. And I just want to know how you they were so protective of themselves first and us as well. You know, they always just highlight like keeping the noise outside. And I think that heat and desire that you're speaking of can be that noise, you know, and I think that we all just live very kind of meaningful private lives and I

I don't have that heat and desire and my DMs is it's uh So I don't have to deal with you know I don't have to deal with in the same way John David does as a as an actor and his face is out there All the time, but I think that they just want you on GQ wasn't there a GQ What you would you would you brother what you would you With your well moisturized lips and the goatee and the hair was herring. It was a full beard. Yeah, the braids were braiding. But for real, I think it's just like the kind of focus and protection of your piece and

yourself and not kind of getting swept up and all the other stuff. They made it clear too that like that, like, this is theirs. Y'all got to earn yours, you know what I mean? It's like, it's them taking us to school. It's my dad coaching us. Like, we were living somewhat of, I think, a normal life because that's the environment they set. We celebrated Christmas.

We would go trick-or-treating on Halloween. You know, it was a lot of that going on. Both of you make such a strong point, and it's beautiful to see, but every chance you get, you remind people that you're the sons of both Denzel and Pauletta. And They be trying to erase my mom. That's crazy. It's more a reaction, I guess.

We love our parents, you like, we love our parents. We love both of them. You know what saddens me sometimes about that is, man, just the role that mothers play, that black women play in our culture, that black mothers play, it's such a crucial one. And they're often such an overlooked position sometimes. People don't give them their flowers. So yeah, we're going to give our mom our flowers. Like we love her.

She's done so much for us. And to piggyback on that, to celebrate the woman she was before she was a mother, before she was a wife, you know, both my brother and her have their masters in the artistry, the only ones in the family that do. So like that's important to me too. And we both carry that with us when we approach the art

That's part of the reason we love it as well knowing That she's an artist in her own right. So it's it's to Piggyback on what you say because I think that's that's a that's a great point about women. Yeah What's her reaction to you guys making that statement and stating it so clear. Because as a mother, I just always smile. Like I want my children to be speaking my name out in the world like that. Yeah. And can you imagine, you know what I mean? Can you imagine it's like they've gotten to like an impossible situation, you know, it's like my dad

growing up first at Harlem and then Mount Vernon and just kind of like where he's ascended to in his. He'd be claiming Harlem like that. Yeah And then God forbid he meets somebody from Mount Vernon and then it's like what was Harlem, you know But but yep, you know, they both they both overcome and made such incredible lives for themselves And I and I think we carry pride of coming from from such strong, you know They both overcome and made such incredible lives for themselves. And I think we carry pride of coming from such strong people that live a purposeful life.

Yeah. John David, the older you get, the more and more you sound like your dad. Do you guys get confused at all in listening on the phone or no? Yes. I used to call the house. I used to call the house and of course you have that thing with your, you know, when you're 16, 17, maybe you're staying out a little late or something or the report card came in and it wasn't perfect and you call the house and you're like, oh, I hope my sister

picks up. I hope my brother picks up. And John David would pick up and he would sound just like my dad. Hello. Oh my goodness. I would stand straight up. And John David would pick up, and he would sound just like my dad. Hello. Oh, my goodness. I would stand straight up. Where the hell was I? Dang. Guess I can't deny it. It's always been like that. Yeah.

Um... Do you think you'll adapt any more of August Wilson's plays? You know what? I think that there's a really wonderful thing happening now where, so far, there's three films, there's been three different filmmakers and three different voices that have come to them and each of the films kind of reflect the voice of the filmmaker so far.

Like my dad with Fences, Mr. Wolf, he's an incredible theater director and I think that you can see that talent at work in Ma Rainey. My voice is different from theirs, and I think you see that in Piano Lesson. So I hope that for the rest of them, they continue to get varied voices

from different backgrounds and different kind of points of view and let this whole thing be a much larger kind of project where you look back and it's this tapestry of black artists working this time, connecting to this seminal texts. Malcom Washington and John David Washington,

this was such a pleasure to talk with both of you, and thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for having us. Yeah, great conversation. I appreciate it. John David and Malcom Washington's new film is The Piano Lesson. Their father, Denzel Washington, is starring in his own film, the much anticipated blockbuster Gladiator 2, which is expected to battle at the box office

with another big studio film, Wicked. Cynthia Erivo and Arianda Grande star in Wicked, and our film critic Justin Chang has seen both movies. Here's his take. Some moviegoers are already referring to Gladiator II and Wicked as this year's Barbenheimer. I believe Glickid is the portmanteau of choice. We'll see if the comparison holds up. Both these lavish spectacles are set to be huge hits, but unlike Barbie and Oppenheimer, they're essentially known quantities, rooted in stories and characters that the audience knows well. Wicked was adapted from the long-running Broadway musical, which was itself inspired by Gregory Maguire's 1995 novel.

But you should know going in that this two-hour and forty-minute movie is just part one, and there will be a year-long intermission before part two. The director John M. Chu, of In the Heights and Crazy Rich Asians, takes a glossy maximalist approach to this origin story for The Wicked Witch of the West, the villain so memorably played by Margaret Hamilton in the 1939 classic The Wizard of Oz. In this telling, the witch's name is Elphaba, and as played by a quietly commanding Cynthia Erivo, she's brave, brilliant, and grievously misunderstood, mainly on account of her green skin. Much of the movie takes place at a school of sorcery, basically Hogwarts with munchkins,

where Elphaba impresses the powerful headmistress, an imperious Michelle Yeoh. It's here that Elphaba becomes rivals with a smug queen bee named Galinda, the future good witch of the North. She's played with delightful comic brio by the pop superstar Ariana Grande. But in time, the two become genuine friends. In this scene, set to one of Stephen Schwartz's better musical numbers, Galinda decides to give Elphaba a makeover. Popular, you're gonna be popular.

I'll teach you the proper poise when you talk to boys. The way to flirt and trans- I'll show you what shoes to wear, how to fix your hair, everything that really counts to be popular. I'll help you be popular, you'll hang with the right cohorts, you'll be good at sports, know the slang you've got to know, so let's start, cause you've got an awfully long way to go. Don't be offended by the... Wicked handles the boarding school comedy with a pleasingly light touch. There's also a hint of a romantic triangle involving a handsome prince, a very good Jonathan

Bailey, who, like a lot of things here, foreshadows future Wizard of Oz developments. In time we get Jeff Goldblum, nicely cast as the wizard himself, who turns out to be less wonderful than he appears. This sets the stage for Elphaba to harness her full magical strength and become Oz's public enemy, number one. Wicked, part one, does build to a doozy of a gravity-defying Emerald City climax, but much of the movie is too lumbering, too obvious, and frankly too digitally slick to cast a spell. I hate to say this about a movie that teaches us not to judge based on appearances,

but I do wish Wicked looked better. Where Oz has winged monkeys, ancient Rome has deranged baboons. Early on in Gladiator 2, Lucius, a warrior played by Paul Meskel, must prove his mettle by defeating a very scary simian in the Colosseum arena. Sixteen years have passed since the events of the first Gladiator, and like that movie's slain hero, Maximus, indelibly played by Russell Crowe, Lucius is a prisoner, scarred by personal tragedy, and bent on revenge. His hatred, though, isn't just aimed at one person. Lucius wants to burn the whole rotten empire to the ground. The director Ridley Scott has reunited with some

of his key collaborators from that first film, including the actor Connie Nielsen, making a regal return as Lucilla, daughter of Marcus Aurelius. Most of the cast, however, is new. Pedro Pascal plays a formidable general, with whom Lucius has a score to settle, while Joseph Quinn and Fred Heschinger romp up a storm as a pair of twin brother tyrants who are driving Rome to ruin. And Denzel Washington unsurprisingly gets the juiciest role as Macronus, a sly and somewhat inscrutable slave owner who sends Lucius into the arena. It's fun to watch Washington go over the top, but his scene-stealing is typical of

Gladiator 2 as a whole. It's a lot of flash to very little purpose. Mescal, best known for his sensitive melancholy work in the series Normal People and films like Aftersun, gives an intensely physical performance, but his Lucius never lays claim to your sympathies as commandingly as Maximus did. And when the characters start talking laboriously about the downfall of Rome and the hope of a glorious rebirth, the movie rapidly loses steam. It's like watching an extended WWE SmackDown suddenly interrupted by a civics lesson. Still, the SmackDown itself is pretty satisfying.

In Gladiator 2's wildest action sequence, the Coliseum Arena becomes a giant saltwater tank, complete with dueling warships and bloodthirsty sharks. It's an utterly outlandish spectacle, but Ridley Scott, who's now 86, doesn't sweat the logistics. The first gladiator asked, are you not entertained? And in these moments, at least, we are. Justin Chang is a film critic for The New Yorker. He reviewed Wicked and Gladiator 2. Coming up, Selena Gomez, who stars in the new film Amelia Perez. I'm Tanya Mosley, and this is Fresh Air Weekend. This is Fresh Air Weekend, I'm Tonya Mosley, and I recently had the chance to check out

the movie Amelia Perez, the new Spanish language musical that stars my guest today, Selena Gomez. The film is centered on a lawyer named Rita, played by Zoe Saldana, who is kidnapped and tasked with helping a ruthless Mexican cartel leader secretly undergo gender-affirming surgery to begin a new life as Amelia Perez. Selena Gomez plays Jessie Del Monte, the wife of the cartel leader, who knows nothing about her husband's transition and is led to believe that Amelia Perez is a distant cousin. The film is almost entirely in Spanish, and Gomez, who grew up speaking it but lost fluency, took lessons to prepare for the role.

Here she is singing a stirring performance of Bienvenida, which means welcome. Bienvenida a tu paisa mato bonita, a tu lujosa carcel primita, donde todo es caro, encantada, y gracias a la familia. Bienvenida, se amable saluda querida, That's Selena Gomez singing in the new Netflix movie musical, Amelia Perez. As an ensemble, Gomez, along with Zoe Saldana and Carla Sofia Gascon, who portrays both Amelia Perez and the cartel leader before she transitions,

won the Cannes Film Festival Jury Prize for Best Actress. Selena Gomez is an actor, singer, and the founder of the successful cosmetic line, Rare Beauty. She began acting in 2002 at 10 years old on the television series Barney and Friends. She went on to star in several Disney shows before her breakout role in the series The Wizards of Waverly Place. As a musician, she's had 16 consecutive top 40 hits on the Billboard Hot 100, the

longest active run of any artist, and she's the most followed woman on Instagram. We talked about some of her struggles with such a high level of fame, and her diagnosis of lupus and bipolar disorder. Gomez was nominated for an Emmy Award for her role in the mystery comedy series Only Murders in the Building, alongside Steve Martin and Martin Short.

Selena Gomez, welcome to Fresh Air. Thank you. That was such a lovely introduction. I was wondering, you spent, was it nearly half a year training, preparing for this role, learning Spanish. You actually grew up speaking Spanish until something happened. It took a turn where you weren't speaking it anymore. I was fluent when I was seven, and before then all up until then.

But I got my first job at seven, and most of my jobs from that point on were English. And I moved from Texas to California to pursue my dream with Disney, and I again just lost it. And that's kind of the case for a lot of people, especially Mexican-American. I think, you know, my cousins and people in our lives,

it's so dominated by English-speaking people, which is fine. But I wish I had had more. I wish I just knew a lot more than I do. But I think that's why I try to honor my culture as much as possible from releasing an album in Spanish to, you know, wanting to pursue this movie that I thought would be an incredible challenge. And I don't think it'll be the last thing I do in Spanish. Do you feel more fluent in it now? I do.

And don't try to talk anything around me, because I will know what you're saying if you think that I can. I just have a hard time responding sometimes to form the sentence correctly. Right, because even though you weren't speaking it, did you feel like you could understand it when you heard other folks speak it? Completely.

It's also, you know, Spanish is one of the most beautiful languages and the inflections and the melody behind how they speak, it's very telling. And it's a very emotional language, I think. Mm-hmm. a very emotional language, I think. Let's talk a little bit about the themes in the movie. She's looking for freedom because she's married to this very brutal drug kingpin. And so all the things that go along with that life, she has two children by him.

It's not explicitly said, but it seems as if maybe she got married when she was very young to him. Yeah, that's correct. There's a transformation with your husband from male to female, but there's also a transformation of this character. She's like a dormant volcano of a wife, and we watch her as she goes through. And I want to play a clip, And this clip I'm about to play. It's several years after her husband has had the transition. She thinks he's dead.

She goes back to Mexico, and she connects with a man who really is the love of her life. And in this scene, the two of you, this man, you and this man, you all are in a club and you're singing the song Mi Camino. Let's listen. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it.

I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. That's my guest, Selena Gomez, singing the song Mica Meno in the musical film Amelia Perez. Okay, Selena, this is a liberation song. It is.

It's so beautiful. I'm so proud of it. The words, I'm going to read a little bit of the words in English. If I fall into the ravine, it's my ravine. If I double the pain, it's my pain. If I send myself to the seventhine, it's my ravine. If I double the pain, it's my pain. If I send myself to the seventh heaven, it's my heaven. If I lose my way, it's still mine. I wanna love myself.

It's a liberation song. And to me, without like being too sappy about it, I feel like it sounds familiar to your life path. Do you see that? Yeah, actually I do. It was one of the most emotional songs that I got to record during the process of shooting this movie. And I remember just singing it and thinking to myself, this could have been my song, you

know, this could have been a, you know, me song on an album I would put out personally, because it's so well said and it feels very true to who I am, to where I am. I think that when I do make mistakes, I don't feel like I should or necessarily need to be punished for them. It's something that I feel like I need to grow and learn from. And I think that sometimes there's been moments in my career where people weren't allowing me to grow up, weren't allowing me to make choices that, you know,

wasn't exactly what they thought I should be doing. Acting, as you said, has always been your first love. We're gonna get into some things like, I can't believe Girl Interrupted is one of the first films you saw. Like, what? I'm sorry, mom. I know. Sorry, mom.

Yeah, no, my mom was, she was so, just, I just remember feeling like she was the coolest person ever. She's still cool, but as a kid, I looked up to her so much. But she kind of was, I mean, she was 16 when she had you, so she was a young mom. Oh, yeah, we were like sisters, in a way. And she loved, she loved everything about art. And I remember sometimes she would let me watch things, but she would do the old cover your, you know, ears and eyes, like, be careful. And so yeah, she was young, maybe I shouldn't have watched some of the things I did. However,

I think I fell in love with it for the right reason. So it was a whole range of different styles, and we'd watch, you know, French films, or we'd watch anything that kind of sparked something, and my mom, and she would explain things to me, and I would always ask questions, and I was inquisitive about the work, and it wasn't just an experience for me. I wanted to know everything.

And I think that's where it kind of stemmed from. Do you remember the first time you were on stage your first performance? Yeah, the funny thing is, is I wasn't in any school plays necessarily. I was seven when I auditioned for Barney, which is the big purple dinosaur, if people don't remember. But I was in line, it was 1,400 kids, and it was in Texas. And I waited in line for a while and I just thought, here's my chance, I could do something really

cool. You thought that in the moment. Yeah. I just thought, this is something I really want to do and I hope I get it. And I went to three rounds of callbacks. They were very serious about Barney back in the day. And I got the part and it would have to be the first time I stepped foot on the set of Barney.

It was magical, not to mention I'm seven and they make it for kids, you know, they make it this beautiful experience and the sets are gorgeous. I just got the bug immediately. I had school there as well, a bunch of kids I got to grow up with. And at the same time, maybe Barney taught me how to clean and how to say I love you. Right, because you're taking in all the lessons that you all are teaching us. Totally. Well, for those who don't watch it, Only Murders in the Building, the Hulu series, is centered on you, Martin Short and Steve Martin.

You guys are a trio of residents in this really beautiful Upper West Side apartment building called the Arconia. And you set out to investigate a string of murders in the building and start a true crime podcast to chronicle the investigation. Martin Short has said, like in all of the interviews, just how much fun you guys have on the set. He alludes it to being kind of exceptional in that way. What makes it fun? Well, first off, Steve Martin and Martin Short are legends in their own right. And it is very difficult to keep a straight face when you're talking to them about anything

because they simply exude and radiate comedy. How do you do it? Because you're the straight man of the three. I know, but I mean, I just have to, I gotta get through it. Once we do the table read and they'll chime in, it is challenging. But I think the best part of all my murders is the environment.

And I think that's what Marty is referring to because these two actors who have been working longer than I've been alive are always on time, could not be more compassionate and kind to everyone. Class act, intelligence, their humor is smart and wise. And they'll sit down and talk to, you know, our camera guy and ask how his daughter's doing. And it just, to me, was a very good place for me to start back into acting.

It just was safe and it was so fun and they made it feel like it was, they just made it feel like it was home. How did the role come about for you? So Steve came up with the idea himself, not about me. He originally wanted the show to be three comedians, three guys. And John Hoffman came in, who's the co-creator,

and said, I have this idea, this maybe unconventional, you know, relationship or friendship that these, you know, people care about. So what if we had, you know, like a friendship that these, you know, people care about. So what if we had, you know, like a 28-year-old and Steve, you know, was like, well, let me know your ideas or whatever, you know, you're thinking. And John got on a call with me and I had told him how much I, you know, will watch 48 hours or with my mom, I'd watch, you know, forensic files or... Oh, okay, you're into the true crime stuff.

I think that he was music to his ears, and he was very genuine and sweet. And after the call, they offered me the part. I want to play a clip from season one. So you all live in the same apartment, and you don't really know each other that well, but you're starting to come into this idea that something really fishy is happening.

Here, your character, Mabel, is joining the two others in Oliver's apartment, and Oliver is played by Martin Short, and Charles is played by Steve Martin. Let's listen. Oh, how did you get here? It was open. I don't lock my door. Never have. That's insane. It's neighborly. I mean a murderer probably lives in the building, but I guess old white guys are only afraid of colon cancer and societal change. Sad. A murderer doesn't probably live in the building. A murderer definitely lives in the building.

Lester checked all the security footage, and no one unknown to him came in or out during the hours around Tim's murder. Isn't that great for the podcast? So Mabel, tell us, did you learn anything from the online world of Tim Kono? He didn't post much in his online world. He seems to have had a really sad, quiet life. You checked all the websites? Yep, all the websites. Well, we've exhausted the internet. That's my guest Selena Gomez with Martin Short and Steve Martin in the very popular Hulu

series Only Murders in the Building. Selena, there's such a tenderness to your relationships with those guys that seems like it's only grown over the seasons. I was watching, I think I saw you and Martin Short on a TV show recently and you were showing him how to put on makeup from your rear beauty line. And it felt natural and connected, like you all are your friends. Yes. And it's an absolute joy.

They'll joke and laugh and say, oh, we didn't know what to expect when we met Selena. But I don't know, by the first week of us working together, they really took me under their wing. They didn't make me feel separate because I was younger. They made me feel incredibly included. If they would change a joke or want to try something different, they would always incorporate me into the conversation. And they respected me. And I felt safe, you know. These are gentlemen that want nothing from me but to have a great experience at work and create bonds with everybody on set.

They disarm people by their kindness. So yeah, I've done interviews or I've been upset on days of working if I've got bad news. They're protective. They listen. They give great advice. That's something I'll cherish. It could have been totally different. It could have been, you know, hard to connect, but they are genuinely wonderful people. And it's, it's just been a huge blessing because I I get emotional thinking about it because I really do love them and they care about me a lot. Selena Gomez this has been such a pleasure to talk with you. It's been so

nice. Selena Gomez stars in the new movie Amelia Perez. Fresh Air Weekend is produced by Teresa Madden. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director is Audrey Bentham. Our engineer is Adam Staniszewski. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Anne-Marie Baldonado, Sam Brigger, Lauren Krenzel, Monique Nazareth, Thea Challener, Susan Nkundee, and Anna Bauman. Our digital media producers are Molly C.V. Nesper and Sabrina Seward. With Terry Gross, I'm Tonya Mosley.