Fresh Air - Busy Philipps

Episode Date: February 27, 2024

Busy Philipps plays Mrs. George, a "cool mom" seeking the approval of her teen daughter in the new movie musical version of Mean Girls. Philipps got her start in acting as a teen on the series Freaks and Geeks. She spoke with Ann Marie Baldonado about sexism in Hollywood, collaborating with Tina Fey, and the best friendship advice her mom gave her. Also, Ken Tucker reviews a new solo album from Mary Timony, and David Biacnulli reviews the series Shōgun.For sponsor-free episodes of Fresh Air — and exclusive weekly bonus episodes, too — subscribe to Fresh Air+ via Apple Podcasts or at https://plus.npr.org/freshairLearn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

This is Fresh Air. I'm Terry Gross. Our guest, actor Busy Phillips, co-stars in the series Girls 5 Ever, which begins its third season next month on Netflix. It's just one of the Tina Fey projects Phillips has premiering this year. She's also in the new movie musical version of the 2004 film Mean Girls. Busy Phillips spoke with Fresh Air's Anne-Marie Boldenado. Here's Anne-Marie. Busy Phillips has been involved Air's Anne-Marie Boldenato. Here's Anne-Marie. Busy Phillips has been involved in projects lousy with teenagers, dating back to her breakout role

on the critically acclaimed but canceled show Freaks and Geeks. She was 19, playing tough girl Kim Kelly. Since then, she starred in Dawson's Creek, Cougar Town, and Vice Principals. She wins people over with her comedic work on TV shows and movies, but she also does it with her honest, straightforward approach to talking directly to her fans. She does it through social media, her podcasts, and her writing. In her best-selling memoir, This Will Only Hurt a Little, she writes about her childhood and her career, including candid, hilarious, and also heartbreaking stories about the rejection and misogyny she's dealt with in Hollywood

and in the rest of her life. Before we talk about all of that, let's hear her in her latest film, Mean Girls, which is the movie version of the musical based on the 2004 movie written by and starring Tina Fey. All versions of Mean Girls are based on the nonfiction book Queen Bees and Wannabes about the complicated and cruel power dynamics teen girls live with. Busy Phillips plays the mother of the queen bee, Regina George. In this scene, the group of popular girls, which includes Regina, her friends, and the new girl, Katie,

are in Regina's room. Mrs. George comes in and tries to make nice with the girls. Oh, Regina! You're never going to believe what I found in your closet this morning. Why are you in my closet? Because I'm doing that Japanese organizing thing where you take a little nap in the closet. I found your burn book. Katie, this is just like the funniest thing that the girls used to do.

Please leave. You got it, baby. But girls, I'm going to be right downstairs. If you need to talk to me about anything, I mean at Deep Stuff or boy troubles or blackheads or alcohol poisoning. You know I have been through it all. Honey, I am not a regular mom. I'm at coolmom with six O's. Hashtag aging hotly. Hashtag get out. Okay. Girls, just have so much fun.

Remember, these are the best days of your life. It does not get better. Busy Phillips, welcome to Fresh Air. Oh, thanks so much for having me. What a dream. What did the original movie Mean Girls mean to you when it came out in 2004? Oh, God, just that I was jealous that I wasn't in it. To be honest, just another job I didn't get.

No, I loved the original, but I was salty that I wasn't. But I couldn't even audition for it but I was salty that I wasn't. But I couldn't even audition for it because we were filming, I was filming White Chicks. And, or I'd already gotten the part for White Chicks. The filming was overlapping. And no shade to White Chicks, although all shade to White Chicks. Because at the time, when White Chicks came out, it was like universally panned. People hated it. It was like honestly embarrassing that I was

in it in the industry and the world at large. Now, perspective is everything. And I am very happy to say that over the years, I realized what an actual cult classic White Chicks has become. And I'm so proud that I was in that ridiculous movie in 2004. Did you have any hesitation about doing this role, given how classic the Amy Poehler cool mom scene is in the original movie? The truth of the matter is, I have now been working with Tina Fey and the Little Stranger Company, her company, her production company, for the last seven or so years pretty consistently. And so when Tina calls and says to me, I have a job for you, who the heck am I to say, oh, you know what? No, thanks.

That's just those are shoes I don't want to fill. I think what's so funny and sad about the Mrs. George character in the original movie is that she's trying so hard to be one of the girls and sort of relive her high school through her daughters and her daughter hates it. Also, her daughter is terrible to her and to the other girls. And maybe that has to do with Mrs. George. But I wonder what you think about that original character and the way you see her, you know, in the new movie like that, that like, being so thirsty, I guess.

You know, it's really interesting because when Tina wrote the original Mean Girls and Amy was starring as Mrs. George in it, neither one of them, I don't even know if Tina had her eldest daughter yet. That's right. I don't know. I mean, I know for a'm like, I'm a young mom. I am cool. And people think I'm cool. By the way, I am famous. People think I'm cool.

But you are just never cool to your kids ever as much as you want it you know in the musical in the original musical um mrs george just has one little snippet of a song and it's a reprise from the song that gretchen sings what's wrong with me and to me watching that on the stage in the theater with my own kids next to me was when I just cried. And I feel like I tried the best I could to sort of imbue the character with that thing of like, she's been waiting her whole life to have girlfriends who love her and she has these girls around her and she's still on the outside looking in and she's like even as a mom what's wrong with me I just think it's so deeply relatable and sad and like it just kind of breaks your heart. I know Tina Fey asked you to do this part in Mean Girls. And this is now a few projects that you've worked on with Tina, including your talk show Busy Tonight and the comedy Girls 5 Eva. What's it like working with her on projects?

And what does her career mean to you? Because she definitely came up on SNL, you know, very male dominated comedy structure. But she also famously works with a lot of her female comedian friends. I'll take it. And I'm so glad. I'm so grateful for it. Because I did spend so much of my early career wanting to be in the boys club of comedy and always feeling like, I don't understand why I'm not. I don't understand why I don't get, I don't know. I just don't get it. Why am I not in this club? You know, and even to the, you know, the point of like Judd and working with those guys again and again for a while. When I was in my early 20s, I do remember feeling like, well, wait, why can't, why am I not the girl in Knocked Up? Or what, you know, like what's happening here? And then to have Tina come in and, and I was such a huge, huge fan of hers.

Of course, like her career meant everything to me. Like there was nothing better than 30 Rock to me. I just it made me laugh so hard and I didn't understand how there were so many jokes. Like, it's so dense. It's so dense. I mean, that's what sometimes on Girls5eva, I'm like, I don't even know what this is, but I'm going to say it because I assume it's a joke. You know, like, I work with her, because I've gotten to work with her in so many different capacities, both, you know, as a producer who's pitching me jokes for my show, you know, helping us break it and figure out what it is. And then giving me, giving me, handing me these amazing roles.

Well, I want to ask you about Girls 5 Eva, which comes back for its third season in March, this time on Netflix. Let's hear a scene from it, from the pilot. The group hasn't seen each other in years, and they're living their lives separately. But a hip hop artist has used an old song of theirs, their main hit, as a sample. And so their music is being heard again, and they get a little bit of money for it. This scene begins with a clip from the past, where your character Summer introduced herself. And then the scene cuts to where they are now. And Sarah Bareilles' character is visiting your character Summer for the first time in years.

Let's listen. I am Summer, and the media trainer said to repeat the question in my answer. So why don't you introduce yourself, Summer? Thanks, Carson. I am Summer. Oh, my God! God! Shut up! I thought that was you on my nest cam!

Summer, you're home! Always! Oh, I just heard us during Peloton. We are back. What are we gonna do? You know, Carnival has a 90s-themed cruise that goes around the Pacific Garbage Patch. No, no, no, no, no. I just have your licensing check.

It expires on Friday, so... Oh, and I brought you this baby gift that I've had for you for, like, five ever. That is so sweet. Thank you. Oh, come. You have to meet Stevia. But don't touch her. She's not vaccinated. Oh, my God. Oh, come. You have to meet Stevia. But don't touch her. She's not vaccinated.

Oh, my God. That's a scene from the first episode of Girls 5, Eva. And I think what's great about the show is how it pokes fun at the music industry or entertainment and how the industry treats both women in the past as well as in the current day. Can you share any of these crazy things that were said to you or things that were asked of you? God, so many things were asked of me. I mean, I've been asked to lose weight like a billion times. When have I not been asked to lose weight? Well, Tina didn't ask me to lose weight and Paul didn't ask me to lose weight. But after that, forget it. It was just a constant stream of losing weight.

Minus white chicks. But in the script, it legitimately says they're a fat friend. That's how my character is described. I was a size eight at the time. OK, they're fat friends. That's OK. Anyway, but yeah, like I was asked I was told at one point to consider removing having all of my moles removed on my neck and my face and my body. And I was like, I don't understand that. I think it'll just be really horrific looking scars. My dad's had some moles removed for biopsies. It doesn't look great, guys. I'm not gonna lie. a Maxim FHM stuff magazine.

One of the girls, like at the time, it was these, you know, these magazines and the casting, the head of casting was like, I get a call from the executive when it comes, when the Maxim 100 comes out and they have, they've circled the girls that they want to put in movies and you're not going to be circled.

You're not going to be on that list unless you do it. Now, I want to ask you about Freaks and Geeks, which was your first big TV show. It was on TV from 1999 to 2000. It was a show by Judd Apatow and Paul Feig, and it launched a lot of actors' careers. I wanted to play a scene from the pilot. And I believe this might have been the scene that you did when you were auditioning for the role. You play Kim Kelly, a tough girl who has no trouble making fun of people at school and is skeptical of the main character, Lindsay, and she's mean to her too. In this scene, though,

you're in the hallway at school and you're making fun of Sam Weir, who's the younger brother, played by John Francis Daly. Hey, geek. Got a problem? Uh, no. I was just looking at a friend of mine. You got a problem? Uh, no.

I was just looking at a friend of mine. Are you telling me that I look like a friend of yours? Hey, Kim. I think he likes you. Is that true? Do you like me? Do you love me? I like you like a friend. I like you like a friend.

I don't think so. I think you like me like me. I think you like me like me. I think you want to kiss me. Do you want to kiss me? I don't know. I don't know. Come on.

Just one little kiss. I'll be your girlfriend. And your dreams, geek. Is that my voice? That's a scene from the first episode of the show, Freaks and Geeks. Now, you've said, you know, the character Kim, she's had a difficult family life and she was tough and aggressive. And maybe that was because that's what she had experienced herself growing up. And I'm just wondering what you related to most about Kim

Kelly, because you really capture her. You do such a good job with her. I think that so much of what I was doing was just very intuitive. And yeah, there was a girl in my high school that when I read the character reminded me a little bit of Kim and she scared me so much. And also like the anger, I related so deeply to anger and I had so much of it at 19. I had so much of it. I mean, I still have so much of it. I still am like meditating and do my therapy and like taking my shoes off and trying to ground myself. I do all the things, you know what I mean? But I do have that thing and it comes from a lot of different places. But I think that, yeah, for Kim, it really comes out of just feeling misunderstood and not having, you know, parents at home who trusted her. But I also like really related to Kim in terms of being a person who was smart, but that didn't necessarily translate to the subjects that were

being taught in school, in the ways that they were teaching it in school, in a, you know, just very basic public school system. So, you know, I related to that a lot. Freaks and Geeks was a show about teenagers, and you were a teenager when you started it, as were some of the other stars on the show. Can you describe what that set was like? You know, and that's, of course, over 20 years ago. I was 19 when I did the pilot of Freaks and Geeks um it's interesting I mean the the set was incredible um everyone was really young Judd Apatow and Paul Feig and Jake Kasdan were really at the, you know, they were at the helm.

And they were so respectful of all of us, all of us kids, as being, like, valid and having a voice in what we were doing. And like, I didn't understand that that's not how television worked or movies or entertainment for that matter, because it felt so collaborative. And yeah, like you said, I mean, some of the kids, Martin Starr and Sam Levine and John Francis Daly, I mean, they were 14, 15, 16. Seth was, I think, 17 when we started. Jason and I are the same age. And James Franco is a little bit older and Linda was like the oldest. But, you know, we had no right to be collaborating with these people. No, I'm not. I'm just saying that it's not the norm. Like the way that they made that show was with such heart and such love for the characters.

And they really extended that to us in a way that was so, I know now, rare and so, you know, if one of us was like, I don't know if, I don't know how to say this or this line is, well, how would you say it? How would Kim, how would, just do it. Do it how you would do it. To your point and your question and how things have changed, like Freaks and Geeks is not the barometer for how the industry was at the time. I can tell you about auditions where I would be told by my agents, well, you know, this executive really likes boobs. So if you could Right. And also like just the sort of this is the way it is. There's never going to change. The best you can do is try to assimilate yourself to this culture in any way that you can and, you know, hope for the best because you are replaceable. So let's not make waves, you know, in any major way. But as far as like the way that they treated us on set, it was very respectful. Busy Phillips co-stars in the new film Mean Girls, which is now available online.

And her TV show Girls 5 Eva returns for a third season next month on Netflix. I'm Anne-Marie Baldonado, and this is Fresh Air. Hi there, it's Tanya Mosley, here to share more about my new series of Fresh Air Plus bonus episodes. I love when he casts his mom in movies. It feels so authentic. I know.

You know, she was also in the film Goodfellas, which I also love. I need to get that screenplay, by the way. I don't have that one. For the next few weeks leading up to the Academy Awards, I'll be talking about all of my favorite movies with my colleague Anne-Marie Baldonado. If you want to hear what movies I love and which screenplays I actually own and use as creative direction, sign up for Fresh Air Plus at plus.npr.org. right about, you know, how grateful you are for this series. But that, you know, it wasn't without like some bad experiences. And one reason why you felt that way is because on almost all sets, boys and girls were treated differently. For example, James Franco was kind of revered on set. And at one point, you have a physical altercation with him, and it didn't seem like they completely took care of you.

For those who don't know the story that we're referring to, there was a scene where you were— Okay, so the one sentence is that there was a—we were kids. James and I had a hard time working together. But there was one particular day, there was a scene we were doing where we get like pelted with water balloons. And then we run after a car and we're mad and we're going to go do something. We're going to go get the guys or whatever. And from the other school. And the director had given me a note. My line was, damn it, Daniel, do something.

And then he's like, what do you want me to do? Screams at me. Because the characters, the two characters, Kim and Daniel, had this very sort of like intense, like borderline kind of abusive like yelling at each other a lot and being kind of mean to each other and um but anyways the director gave me a direction that when i said the line to like smack him with the back of my hand on the chest like damn it daniel do something you know like i would kind of do that like and so we get hit by the water balloon turn around i say damn it dan Daniel do something and hit him on the chest and then James Franco the actor grabbed me and screamed in my face like don't you ever effing touch me and then threw me to the ground um like with such force that it like really knocked

the wind out of me like I was like very it was and they cut and people like ran over and they were like what's going on this is that was great what was that did you what what's happened you know and I had to I had to go take a minute I was very shaken up the director came and was like can you do one more I still don't have it I was like yeah I guess and so then we went back and one more? I still don't have it. I was like, yeah, I guess. And so then we went back and did it again. I did not do the hitting thing. He didn't say a thing to me. And then I went into Linda Cardellini's trailer and like sobbed hysterically. And it was her who told you to say something, right? right yeah she there were yeah I and I can't remember exactly why but there were but like Paul and Judd had to be in some other meeting that at that it was like just like a

confluence of circumstances you know what I mean like they weren't there on set in that moment it was it was rough well were you scared at all about describing some of your experiences and using names? No. I mean, look, truly, I actually think this is interesting. In retrospect, I wish I'd known a few things writing this book. So if you are out there and you're an actress who's writing a memoir, let me fill you in. Number one, I should have sent copies early to everybody involved. And I didn't know that was a thing. And I guess I wish that

the people that had done books before, like my agent, my book agent at the time, or my editor at the time had suggested that, like manuscripts, you know, galleys or whatever, just so that they could have been prepared. Because not that I would have even changed it, but I do think that there's something to the surprise of a situation. And I think that person who was really pissed at me, someone involved closely to the show, and it wasn't James Franco or any, was responding to more, like hadn't even read it yet. It was more like the press of it. Oh, and that's the second thing I want to say about it, that it wasn't lost on me that I write this entire book about my experience being a woman in this industry. And all of the headlines the week before the book came out were about James Franco. Like barely any of them even had my name

in it. In your memoir, you say this thing about acting that I would like you to read. Okay. All right. I'm going to read this. Okay. Okay. Here's the thing. It's not easy to be a woman in this business. There will always be jokes about your body. There will always be guys who steal your best ideas and pass them off as their own. There will always be actors who push you to the ground. There will always be networks that ask you to lose weight. There will always be jobs you will not get based on your looks. And the men will continue to support one another and show up for one another and hire one another. But if you want to stick around, girl, you better be damn sure you smile when be seen and this was a way to do so.

But why put yourself into the situation where always being evaluated and put through the ringer like this? Well, I guess I suppose because like everything, it's a slow burn. You just like want something so badly, you know. I love playing characters. Even if I'm just given a small little, you know, I'm in the Mean Girls movie for, I don't know, 10 minutes. I have no idea. Not that long. But I love figuring out what makes that character kind of heartbreaking too. And how can I show that in just these few

lines and these couple scenes? And I don't know, how can we, how can I show the full range of personhood and these characters that I would play sometimes that would be kind of two-dimensional on the page and they wanted a thing. They want a dumb blonde or they want a whatever. And yeah, I just loved it. So I was sort of willing. And I was also told it was the price of admission. If someone tells you what the price of admission is for your dream, you get to say like, okay, I guess if that's the price of admission, okay, I can do it. I'm like strong enough. I'm like confident enough in myself that I can handle the jabs. I can handle the jokes. By the way, it's nothing that's not happening in every other industry. So, okay, I can do this.

You know, and it does wear on you. It wears on all of us, of course. You find out that, like, the guy you're working with who works, you know, two days a week and you're there every single day is making four times what you are an episode. Like, yeah, sucks. Now, you grew up in Arizona. You had been telling your mom that you wanted to get an agent ever since you were in third grade. What made you so sure? What did you love about saying that you wanted to be an actor? Well, you know, I had a lisp when I was little. I was like Cindy Brady, which is a reference.

I don't know. People, you never know. When I say that now, people are like, huh? Our listeners are older. I know. That's true. That is true. But in case you're not, I couldn't say my R's or my T-H's or my S's in first grade and

second grade. And then I got a speech therapist and I would get like a penny every time I would say, you know, like it wasn't a lot of money, guys, that I was getting for saying my words correctly. It didn't motivate me. But there was a talent show and my mom thought I was like always performing, you know, my whole life. And so my mom kind of convinced me to do this poem in the talent show, which had a lot of the aforementioned letters that were hard for me. But I worked so hard on it because I wanted to do really well and I wanted to make people laugh. It was like a silly poem. And I did it. And it felt so good. And then I was like, oh, this is the thing. Everybody has to look at me.

And if I do it right, they're going to laugh and they're going to clap. And everybody's going to be looking at me. So that kind of started it. Busy Phillips, it's been so great to talk to you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. And I'm sorry I talk heard it. Busy Phillips, it's been so great to talk to you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, and I'm sorry I talk so much. Busy Phillips spoke with Fresh Air's Anne-Marie Boldenado. Phillips stars in the TV series Girls 5 Ever, which returns for its third season in March. She also stars in the new musical film adaptation of Mean Girls,

which is now available for streaming. Coming up, Ken Tucker reviews a new solo album from musician and singer Mary Timoney, who was on Rolling Stone's list last year of the greatest guitarist of all time. This is Fresh Air. The guitarist, songwriter, and singer Mary Timoney has just released her first solo album in 15 years. It's called Untame the Tiger, and rock critic Ken Tucker thinks it represents a new high point in her varied, adventurous career. Timoney was on Rolling Stone's list of the greatest guitarists of all time, published last year, and she's familiar to indie rock fans as a member of bands such as Helium, X-Hex, and Wild Flag. Ken says this solo album is a marvelous collection dealing with strong, sometimes contradictory emotions. Check the situation

Is it cruel or is it kind We wander in the desert Trying to find time The white flags above us fly on our down. Time to meet the mountain. There's no other way out. Mary Timoney's guitar playing over a 30-plus year's career has been characterized by a firmness, an unyielding flintiness that conveys a confidence in making music, even when the songs themselves are detailing doubt, vulnerability, or loneliness. Her new album, Untame the Tiger, unfolds like a journey in which the traveler maps her emotions

onto every scene. In the song Dominoes, for example, Timoney adds to the list of great rock and roll road songs, singing about going 90 in the wrong direction, riding next to someone whom she's decided she's no longer in love with. She doesn't feel trapped in that car, though. If anything, she's feeling the power she has to control her destiny. When you said it was forever You looked me right in the eye. The next second you were gone, that's when I realized,

that stuff was a lie. Going in the wrong direction I was right beside you Trying to steal back my affection I really never thought I'd be out here on my own Living in this desert Half frequency zone In the beginning this doesn't have frequencies on On and on On the song Don't Disappear, a lyric about comforting a troubled friend

could also be Timonnie talking to herself, perhaps without realizing it. When she reaches the chorus of the song, Timonese lifts her voice and her guitar into a brighter, sunnier place. She sings harmony with herself and plucks out chords that would fit right into a Beach Boys song, saying, don't be afraid, and uses an odd, soothing phrase, I've got you in my brain parade. I see you there Beyond everywhere

The garden of time Is backwards in my mind If you fall, don't be afraid I've got you in my brain You're close to the edge of that emotion Come on, fall back in To my devotion Most of the time here, the music is made by a core trio of guitar, bass, and drums. Some of the prettiest drumming is done by Dave Maddox, the 75-year-old former member of Fairport Convention, Going Strong.

Timonese vocals are so plain spoken, her details so vivid, it's as though she's recording the audio book of a novel she's written. But now my brain is running hot and I'm counting all the rain Wanna go where your animal runs free I hear it call my name What do I get from loving you? Just this song about the pain That's from the title song, Untame the Tiger. At about five and a half minutes

long, it features a languid, dreamy instrumental intro before her vocal abruptly picks up the pace. The song becomes a piece of brisk pop music about realizing a relationship you thought was over is still very much alive. It's the tiger that hasn't been tamed. Her words try to downplay the intensity of these thoughts. At one point, she calls Untame the Tiger just this song about the pain. But Timonese's words are contradicted by her guitar playing, a gorgeous, galloping solo that becomes the heart of the range of sounds Timonty taps into here. On The Guest, Timonty makes her guitar do the work of a country music pedal steel guitar, creating a high, caning sound that rises up to meet her as she greets her old friend Loneliness. Hello, Loneliness, you've come back home.

You were the only one who never left me alone. I try and I try to say goodbye. But you insist. You insist. More than once listening to this album, I was reminded of something Carrie Brownstein, her bandmate in the group Wild Flag, once wrote describing her friend's guitar playing. This is the sound a wound makes. On Untame the Tiger, it sounds as though the wound is healing. Ken Tucker reviewed Mary Timoney's new album called Untame the Tiger. After we take a short break, TV critic David Bianculli will review the new miniseries Shogun. It's based on the James Clavel novel that was also adapted into a 1980 miniseries that starred Richard Chamberlain.

This is Fresh Air. The 1980 NBC miniseries Shogun was one of the most highly acclaimed dramas at the height of the miniseries era. It starred Richard Chamberlain as an English sailor finding himself in Japan in 1600. Now a new adaptation, also based on the same book by James Clavel, comes to television in a 10-part miniseries premiering today on FX. It starts streaming on Hulu tomorrow. Our TV critic David Bianculli has this review. The original Shogun on NBC showed up when miniseries were the hottest things on television. ABC's Roots had broken all ratings records just three years before.

And three years later, the star of Shogun, Richard Chamberlain, would score another massive miniseries hit with ABC's The Thorn Birds. But even then, in 1980, adapting James Clavel's sprawling story of an English sea pilot's adventures in Japan in the year 1600 was quite a gamble. The original version avoided subtitles, for the most part, to reflect the confusion the newly arrived pilot, John Blackthorne, felt when encountering Japanese culture and its people. Except for occasional narration by Orson Welles, who sometimes threw in some radio-style acting by interpreting what a warlord was saying,

most viewers in 1980 were as clueless as the sailor in the story. Eventually, things became a bit clearer when one of the Japanese rulers, Lord Torinaga, appointed a trusted translator, Lady Mariko, to whom the pilot became increasingly and dangerously attracted. Part of the great appeal of that miniseries was the powerful performance by Toshiro Mifune. Foreign film fans at the time knew him as the star of the original Seven Samurai. But the chemistry between Chamberlain as Blackthorn and the Japanese actress Yoko Shimada as his translator Mariko was a big part of it too. Your bravery is greater than mine, lady.

No, please. You must not say that but that is the truth how do you say truth in Japanese hon to then it is hon to that you are braver than I you are brave and you are beautiful you have a honey tongue, Anjin-san But you are beautiful Is Hanto as well? Here it is not wise to notice another man's woman This new interpretation of Shogun adapted for TV by the married writing team of Rachel Kondo and Justin Marks uses subtitles throughout

a choice that makes the narrative more immediately understandable. It also focuses just as strongly and just as effectively on the same three central figures. Lord Torinaga is played by Hiroyuki Sanada, who's so imposing that even his silences are powerful. The translator, Lady Mariko, is played by Anna Sawai, who brings to her character even more strength, mystery, and charisma than in the 1980 version. And instead of the matinee idol handsome Chamberlain as pilot John Blackthorne, we have Cosmo Jarvis, an actor who looks more ruggedly handsome and sounds a lot like Richard Burton. It takes a while for the three characters and actors to share the screen,

but when they finally do, it's entrancing. I serve Yoshi Toranaga-sama. My name is Toda Mariko. John Blackthorn. And you should know I'm not Catholic. My lord would like to say that he is sorry for the time you spent in prison. I'm grateful to be alive. This new shogun has other strong performances as well, but they're not the only things that make this 2024 version so successful. Special and visual effects have improved exponentially

in the almost 45 years since the original Shogun was televised, and it shows here. Every storm at sea, every battle scene, and especially every earthquake, is rendered with excitement and credibility. And finally, there's the overarching story, which has Torinaga employing Blackthorn as his secret weapon in a deadly civil war. The power grabs among the five rulers are like the hostilities in the Game of Thrones, except instead of a red wedding, there's a crimson sky. I went back and re-watched the original Shogun to see if it holds up. It does.

But the several directors who worked on Shogun for FX deliver a new version that looks much more stunning. It's sexier, more violent, and even more thought-provoking and illuminating than the original. All of which, in this context, are meant as compliments. The first two episodes of Shogun are televised on FX opening night and streamed the next day on Hulu, with the remaining episodes presented weekly. Don't miss it. With this Shogun, as with the original, the TV miniseries is alive and well. David Bianculli is a professor of television studies at Rowan University.

He reviewed the new miniseries Shogun, premiering today on FX. It starts streaming on Hulu tomorrow. Tomorrow on Fresh Air, the director of the sci-fi epic Dune Part 1 and the new Dune Part 2, which opens this week. We talk with French-Canadian filmmaker Denis Villeneuve, who also directed Arrival, Blade Runner 2049, and Sicario. He'll talk about the work that inspired him, from Jaws to comic books. I hope you'll join us. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our senior producer today is Teresa Madden. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham.

Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Amy Sallet, Phyllis Myers, Anne-Marie Baldonado, Sam Brigger, Lauren Krenzel, Heidi Simon, Thea Chaloner, Seth Kelly, and Susan Yakundi. Our digital media producer is Molly Seavey-Nesper. Roberta Shorrock directs the show. Our co-host is Tanya Mosley. I'm Terry Gross.