Fresh Air - 'Hacks' Star Hannah Einbinder

Episode Date: June 17, 2024

Einbinder co-stars with Jean Smart in the HBO Max series Hacks. Her new Max special is Everything Must Go. Einbinder grew up in a comedic household — her mom, Laraine Newman, is an original SNL cast member. Being funny was "the main currency in our home," she says. "It was a love language for sure."Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

This is Fresh Air. I'm Terry Gross. My guest, Hannah Einbinder, is a comic who stars opposite Jean Smart in the HBO and Max series Hacks. This series is about the personality and generational conflicts, as well as the bonds, between an older comic, played by Smart, and a young comedy writer who works for her, played by Einbinder. Einbinder has been nominated for two Emmy Awards. The show has won six. Einbinder's mother, Lorraine Newman, is an important figure in the comedy world. Newman was an original cast member of Saturday Night Live and co-founded the improv group The Groundlings.

Here's how Einbinder introduces herself in her new comedy special called Everything Must Go. My mother had me when she was 42. Because before that age, she was busy. See, my mother made the money in our house. She was 12 years older than my father and refused to legally marry him. What does being a woman mean to me?

It means being a man. Einbinder Special touches on some pretty personal topics, which we'll talk about, including the impact of being diagnosed in high school with ADHD, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, and then smoking marijuana to take the edge off the Adderall, and coming out as bisexual. Of course, we'll also talk about working with Jean Smart on Hacks. Hacks has concluded its third season and has been renewed for a fourth. When the series begins, Jean Smart's character, Deborah, is a veteran Vegas headliner whose star is fading because her jokes have passed their expiration date. Her agent matches her with a young comedy writer,

played by Einbinder, who has problems of her own. You can get a sense of the generational differences in this scene. Deborah, with Ava's help, is making a comeback and is in line to be offered the job she's always wanted, hosting a popular late night show. She's about to be given an honorary degree and is at a party on the college campus when she finds out a video has gone viral stringing together some of her jokes from years ago that are now considered insensitive and problematic. Ava is by her side. Jean Smart's character, Debra, speaks first. I can't believe this is happening now. I know. It's really bad timing. I finally get an ounce of relevance. I'm this close,

and they just want to take it away from me again. I'm sorry to say this, but, I mean, you're not the only victim here. Oh? Oh, really? Who's the other victim? Someone who was offended by a joke? Many jokes. I'm sorry. People are too easily offended now. If you don't like a joke, don't laugh!

They're not. This is insane! Me! I'm being taken down by a liberal mob! Me, who was the first person to be fined by the FCC for saying the word abortion on TV! Why come after me? Hey, this is not a value judgment on your entire being. Oh, really? They're just upset about some mistakes you made. Jokes I made.

Jokes that everybody was doing at the time. Yes, and the jokes were hurtful. Both things can be true. You get to be rich and famous for making jokes, and people are allowed to have their reactions to them. I mean, why not use your comedian brain to fight through your defensiveness and think outside of yourself? Isn't that what good comics do?

Why don't you just apologize? Okay, that scene was set at a fraternity party on the campus. Hannah Einbinder, welcome to Fresh Air. So what do you think about the idea of canceling people for old jokes that weren't seen as in really bad taste at the time, but in retrospect are very problematic. You know, I think it is about the way that the comedian responds now. You know, I think if you double down and, like Deborah, refuse to apologize, then you're standing by the remarks you made and if they are racist or problematic or you know whatever they may be in whatever case it is then that is a problem and people have the absolute right to

you know not want to consume your art anymore and i think a lot of comedians are headstrong personalities who don't want to compromise and whose job is to have an opinion and to stick by it. And their entire work is their own perspective. And so wavering on that and being malleable in that way is not something that comedians are typically willing to do. It's also like, I used to be considered enlightened. I said abortion on TV, that got me into a lot of trouble. And so why does anybody have the right to criticize me now? Yeah, I think that's absolutely, in part, valid. You know, it is important to do what the scene does, which is acknowledge the contribution that Deborah has made to comedy and, you know, that she did break boundaries and cross barriers and that she did, you know, contribute furthers the cultures. You know, in the case of Deborah, she said abortion on TV and she was fined. And that's like, you know, that is a progressive and daring and feminist act, I think.

But it still doesn't excuse these jokes. In the series Hacks, your character is kind of canceled in the first episode for a joke that she posted about a closeted senator who sent his son to conversion therapy so that the son could learn to undo his homosexuality. And I'm wondering if you have ever come close to being canceled for a joke that you told that was seen by some group or somebody as being, you know, problematic. I have not. That's not the school that I come from. There's this famous George Carlin quote that is,

the comedian's job is to find the line and deliberately cross it. And I think that is valuable, but I choose to cross the line in different ways. For me, I choose to cross the line in different ways for me I choose to cross the line in terms of form and the exploration of the material and the way that the material is presented in terms of format and style I don't necessarily see you know in the case of a lot of these male comedians today, like clowning on trans people as like speaking truth to power. And it's something that I could never even get anywhere near because I just have such a different view on what this art form is. I just really,

I could not relate to these men any less, really, honestly. How did you get the part on Hacks with no previous acting experience? You've done sketch comedy. You did a great set on the Stephen Colbert show right before the pandemic lockdown. So how did you pull that off? Well, yeah, I went in with the rest of the, with all the eligible ladies in the land. I went into a casting office, like first round early days on it. And I, you know, what ultimately did it in the end was I added jokes in my audition. Every step of the way, I would add my own jokes. So you punched up the script you were given?

Yeah, a perfect script that needed no punch-up, might I add. But I did just, you know, because it was so funny, and when something is such a quality piece of work, for me it's so easy to kind of spitball off of that. So I just loved the material, and I had ideas for it. And so I just added jokes along the way. And I did about three auditions. My first one was like several days before the initial COVID lockdown and then months went by and I did my callback on Zoom. And again, in that callback, I added several jokes. And I also added that Ava would vape after a punchline. I bought a vape and I hit it in the, I smoked it in the callback. What was the scene that you were given to audition? And did they keep the jokes that you wrote in the actual TV series?

They did, and the audition scenes were the first scene where we meet my character in her manager Jimmy's office, and she's, you know, on the verge talking about wanting to jump out the window, and she's just been, you know, canceled, if you will. And then the other scene is the interview scene between Ava and Deborah when they first meet. So can you give an example of a joke you wrote that they kept? In the audition scene, the one between Jean and I. And just to set it up, you both have the same agent. It's the son of the person who was originally Jean Smart's agent.

Yes. The older agent died. His person who was originally Gene Smart's agent. Yes. The older agent died. His son represents your character and Smart's character. And he kind of finagles things to get you to go to Gene Smart's house to audition, but he never tells Gene Smart that. So things could get off to a terrible start. Yes. I added just some color to the initial interview scene between Ava and Deborah. I added that Ava, the line was that she flew all the way here and I added on spirit. Right. Okay. That's fine. Airlines. Yeah.

And I think I... Because you're talking about the effort you went to, to get here and now she's just rejecting you without even talking to you yet. Yeah. There was also a line I said, who's your decorator, Melania Trump? Because she has this sort of very Baroque style going on, sort of Versace Palace vibes. Did you learn a lot about acting by working with Jean Smart? Oh, yeah. Was it mostly by example or did she give you actual tips? It was very much by example. She's really so gifted naturally and also technically, you know, when it comes to the very, you know, meticulous blocking work and continuity. And, you know, I picked up the pen on this line, just things like that. She's very sharp, and she's very on it. And I have tried to absorb as much as

I can. So, you know, your mother is Lorraine Newman, one of the original cast members of Saturday Night Live. When you were growing up, was being funny something that was really prized or rewarded by your parents certainly 100 yeah i think it was uh the main currency in our home and you know my parents are both tough laughs so i had to do a lot to get what i wanted you know to do like a lot to get a big response from them. And yeah, it's like, it is a love language for sure. And that was definitely my experience growing up. Do you feel like you learned how to take something really awful that happened to you and tell a funny story about it? Like turn, turn like bad things into comedy? Yeah, I mean, I think that might just be a product of being Jewish,

but yeah, it's also my specific upbringing for sure, yeah. You know, you mentioned maybe that's a product of being Jewish. When I was growing up, and I'm closer to your mother's age, when I was growing up, there were so many Jewish comics, and some of them were really pretty sexist and bordering a little on racist. Like the Catskill comics. Yes, of course. Jackie Mason.

Of course. And they were on TV. They were in the Borscht Belt and the Catskill Mountains with the hotels, the resort hotels. You probably missed all of that. And also Mel Brooks, who was hilarious and is always hilarious. Mel Brooks, Carl Reiner, those guys are awesome. The 2000-Year-Old Man stuff was great. I feel they were kind of an exception because while their comedy, especially Mel Brooks, while their comedy was daring and certainly by today's standards, there are certainly things there that you could not do them today, things in Blazing Saddles, you know. But I would say The Producers is a good example of something

where Mel Brooks, who is a Jew who's making a movie about Hitler, and it is funny and it does come from the right side of things. I think that certainly at the time would have been seen as very progressive, and I love all of those movies. So in high school, you were a competitive cheerleader, and you were the captain of your team. What was the most impressive and risky move you did as an individual or as a team? Well, I will say that actually my competitive cheerleading days were before my high school cheerleading days. And those were the days where I was doing more elevated skills.

My high school team was certainly like moderately skilled, I would say, but high school cheer, especially, you know, in Los Angeles, does not compare to, you know, the club sport of competitive cheerleading. So that was definitely when that was. But I would say that, like, the highest skill would be, these words will mean nothing, maybe a bow and arrow double down, which... What is that? I don't know. It is when, so a scorpion is where the flyer is in the air on one foot, and they take their foot that isn't being held, and they put it behind their head. And a more extreme version of a scorpion is a bow and arrow which is where you straighten the leg so it's as if you're doing the splits in the air standing up

and then from there you instead of a typical cradle which would just be where they you know bend down and throw you up and then you land in their arms you spin two times in the air before being caught so that would be you did that yes ma'am and this was in junior high before high school this was before high school yeah this was I did competitive cheer I think like 11 to 14 you know it's funny like when you're in improv groups you always have to do my understanding is you always have to do like trust exercises. And, you know, like what's more of a trust exercise than like flying through the air and depending on somebody to catch you? Oh, my God. Like another 11-year-old.

Totally, totally. That sounds terrifying. You know, I never really had fear. I think you can't have fear as a cheerleader. But I, my God, I mean, the bases, the girls who are underneath, who are holding you, they, I mean, you know, because when you're working on a skill and trying to get it, you're falling a hundred times before you perfect it and before you nail it. So they got to be able to catch you from any angle, from any speed. It's just remarkable. And the trust you have, it's incredible. You have to have so much trust. And I love a team sport, and I really miss it. And actually, you know, acting and being on Hacks feels like a team sport again, you know? Like, I do miss that,

because stand-up is so isolating. You know, you're just a one-man band, kind of. My understanding is that you have, like, joint problems left over from those days. Yeah. So can you talk a little bit about that and if you have any, like, regrets about having done the competitive cheerleading? It's kind of like when athletes retire, their bodies are really sore, but they're usually, like, in their 30s or 40s, and you were 11. Yeah. Yeah. They're usually like in their 30s or 40s, and you were 11. Yeah, you know, I mean, I accredit my work ethic and my relentless pursuit of perfection and excellence to cheerleading. I really am the type of person who, and this has been like sort of massaged as I have become less punishingly hard on myself, which is a miracle.

But I really do attribute my desperate pursuit of perfection and my high personal standard to cheerleading for better or for worse, because my coaches were really, really intense, and they did not accept anything other than, you know, perfection. And we won every competition we, you know, entered. And it just was so, like, I compare cheerleading to being a part of the United States military in the special, and I stand by it, You know, it's, I'm joking, of course, but it's very intense. And if you think for the listener, if you think of a Russian gymnastics coach, it's kind of that with American nationalism imbued into it. So scary. But, but yeah, I don't know that I regret it. I certainly don't feel good. My neck hurts right now. I, you know, my knees, I'll probably have to have a replacement very young. I, you know, they crack. It sounds like sand. Sorry, guys. It sounds really bad. My shoulders, you know, I almost have to like reset my kneecap when I'm walking sometimes. I mean, I'm really withering.

But, you know, there was a lot of good that came out of it, and there was no stopping me. You know, in your segment on your special about extreme cheerleading, you joke about how many lesbians or queer women were involved with competitive cheerleading. And when I was in high school, I thought that a lot of girls became cheerleaders and wanted more of an opportunity to date the male basketball players. So I'm wondering about how things have changed since then. Well, I will say that my main frustration with my high school team was that that was the case. I was taking it really seriously, again, coming from that super competitive, strict world. And I think a lot of

the girls kind of just wanted to wear the skirt, which I found to be totally degrading and, you know, just like totally against my values as a very intense very uh intense athlete um but you know i think like there is like a sort of thing that i have from talking to other past cheerleaders who are queer now of like i wanted to be on the team with all the girls you know it's kind of like this thing of like i don't know that so many cheerleaders are, and I could be wrong. I don't really, I'm not really on the high school scene these days. But, you know, I think it's more of like a thing of like many former cheerleaders are now openly queer. Let's take a break here. And if you're just joining us, my guest is Hannah Einbinder.

She's one of the stars, along with Jean Smart, of the series Hacks, which is on HBO and also streaming on Max. And she also has a new comedy special on Max called Everything Must Go. We'll be right back. I'm money internationally, and always get the real-time mid-market exchange rate with no hidden fees. Download the Wise app today or visit wise.com. T's and C's apply. Hey there, Anne-Marie Baldonado here with a preview of our latest Fresh Air Plus bonus episode. It's terribly romantic in a sleazy kind of a way. To me, it was just another nightclub until, of course, the patrons came in and they had no clothes on. Well, they had no, they had towels on. As Pride 2024 continues, we listen back to Terry's interview with the divine Miss M herself,

Bette Midler. Tune in and join Fresh Air Plus for yourself at plus.npr.org. So something else you talk about in the comedy special is taking Adderall because you were diagnosed with ADHD, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. How old were you? When I was diagnosed? Yes. I started being medicated, I believe it was my freshman year of high school. So I guess that would be 14, 13, 14. So how does the attention deficit fit into working so hard at being a competitive cheerleader?

And I can see how hyperactivity would fit into being an athlete, but it sounds like you were very, very focused, which isn't the attention deficit way. Well, it actually is. It is? So yeah, so there is an element of ADHD called hyperfixation. ADHD is very similar to autism in that folks who are neurodivergent, who are ADHD, have a very hard time focusing on things that they are not incredibly passionate about. And then they become obsessed with, you know, niche topics, experiences, activities, etc. And it becomes

sort of like autism, where you just are totally devoted to this one thing and can't think of anything else. And so it's a it's sort of a misconception about ADHD that folks like us can't really focus on anything. It's really that we can only focus on things we're obsessed with. So is that figuring into comedy now? Oh, certainly. I would say that comedy was the post-cheerleading hyperfixation that I pursued very intensely. So you took Adderall for six years. How did it make you feel?

Like, what was the difference between being on it and off it? It made me feel cut off from my soul. Oh, that's big. Yeah, yeah. It was not positive for me. And I do want to just say for folks who do take Adderall who have ADHD, I don't want to invalidate how much it can help people. It really can help people. And a lot of folks function so much better on it.

And that is so valid. I did not have that experience and I know of a lot of folks who also didn't have that experience. I felt kind of numb on it. It kind of dulled my sparkle, if you will, and I was kind of aggro too you know like I there is one molecular difference between the compound that is Adderall and the compound that is methamphetamine so just so we're all clear on like what the what the drug is um it does make you uh or make me I should say you know quick to anger and really um unable to access the full spectrum of emotions. That was my experience, you know, coming off of it and withdrawing. I cut it out cold turkey in college. And I was

confronted with such intense mood swings and all of these emotions that I had not felt in years. And it was insane. And I put on, you know, maybe 20 pounds. And I started napping, which I never did before. And my sleep was all different. And, you know, I'd have occasional, very, very occasional heart palpitations. And, you know, prolonged use of this drug for me was not great. And, you know, I had to take it because I was out of public school and I was not doing well in math and science.

And, you know, I always did well in English and history and my AP government class and environmental science and things like that. But it just was a tool for me to get by in school. And, you know, when I stopped, I had to deal with a lot of really tough emotions and I had to readjust to society for sure. Were any things you had to deal with, the mood swings and intense emotions, was that partly withdrawal or was that other things that best friend and she lived with me and she, sorry, I'm going to cry. like work through, you know, reacclimating and all of these really deep emotional experiences that I had been cut off from. And I remember it being so hard and I wanted to at times go back, but there was really no way to unsee, you know, what I had seen on the other side. So, yeah, I'm very grateful to have a friend like her

because, you know, she just helped me through it. Why don't we take a short break here? My guest is Hannah Einbinder. She stars with Jean Smart in the HBO and Max comedy series Hacks, and she has a new comedy special streaming on Max called Everything Must Go. We'll be right back. This is Fresh Air. You joke in your special about how you smoked weed to take the edge off the Adderall.

Yeah. So what was the combination of those two drugs together like for you when you were in high school? Which is, you know, it's still, I know a lot of kids smoke weed in high school, but it's still a lot to handle, I think, when you're in high school. It's a pretty wicked combo, I will say. I was really a heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy stoner. And, you know, the Adderall made it so that I could keep smoking and it wouldn't get me as high, which was I was in for a rude awakening when I tried to smoke weed the way I used to, but I stopped taking Adderall. I was just like, whoa, man, I'm tripping out, man. It was totally brutal.

But I think the Adderall made me super, super, super focused and the weed trapped me in my head. So I was kind of just like spiraling internally. That was kind of the combination. I mean, you know, weed has acted as an upper for me typically, whereas Adderall was kind of a downer. That's kind of the thing they say where for folks who don't have ADHD, they take Adderall and it's like cocaine and they go crazy and they're so hyper. And then for those who have ADHD, they take Adderall and it totally makes them really, really, really still and really quiet and kind of in whatever they're doing and brings you down.

It sort of has the adverse effect. So that was kind of a strange cocktail. But, yeah, it did kind of bring me back up, ironically, because the Adderall had pulled me down so much. But you said when you smoke weed, you got trapped in your head. Was your head a bad neighborhood at the time? Oh, baby, you know it. Oh, yeah. Mean streets. Okay. Don't walk down those at night. Okay. you got to have a little pepper spray on you. So I've had that experience of getting trapped in my head when I first smoked marijuana. When was that? Oh, a long time ago.

Yeah. I was in college. But I kept smoking it and I'd ask myself, well, I'm getting trapped in my head and it's not good. Why am I smoking it? But then it got a lot better. So why did you continue if it was getting you trapped in your head and that was an unpleasant place to be? Well, I actually did eventually stop. I took a large break for maybe eight months to a year. When I came off the Adderall, the weed on its own just was so, it was just dark.

And frankly, I think drugs kind of pronounce whatever's going on. So I didn't find that weed was like a relief so much as it pronounced my greatest fears. So I was kind of directionless. I was still starting to pursue comedy, but I didn't yet, you know, find standup. I was just doing improv in college and it didn't really help that I felt kind of directionless. And every time I smoked pot, I thought, you know, I had these cyclical thoughts of like, you gotta, what are you doing? Like, you're wasting time. You don't know what you're doing with your life. Like, you gotta figure it out. This is, you know, this is dumbing you down,

all that stuff. So, yeah, I think, I think I, yeah, I took a, I took a big break and just kind of tried to focus up and get back on track. And I've done that throughout my life with pot. You know, I walk away for a while and then I come back and now it's pretty cash because I feel like better in my life that I can, you're most passionate about, which is now comedy. But how did you discover comedy for yourself? Like what was your pathway to thinking this is what I need to do? This is what I feel passionate about? Well, and I've spoken about this. Nicole Byer, a wonderful comedian, came to my college when I was on the

improv team and she asked if any of the kids wanted to open for her and I volunteered and that first set was totally life-changing and I really never looked back. It just felt so good and, you know, this was at a time in my life where I didn't really feel good and it was like this eight to ten minute relief from the very bad feeling and I just became obsessed and started to chase that and you know did my kind of obsessive thing of like memorizing albums you know and listening in the car and writing incessantly and going to open mics every night and driving all over the city and you know so um that that kind of kicked it off because i did improv but again like the mental uh disposition i've described stopped me from being really a good improviser because you have to be able to kind of just be mentally free and i was so overthinking

and so in my head still those, you know, deep grooves, those neural pathways had been carved from years of those types of thoughts. So it was very hard for me to do improv, which actually now I quite like. I love improvising. We improvise on the set of Hacks a lot. And, you know, on stage, I'll go off on a tangent and riff and it's very fun now. But at the time, I couldn't do it at all. Well, let's take another break here. If you're just joining us, my guest is Hannah Einbinder. Her new comedy special is called Everything Must Go. She also stars with Jean Smart on the streaming series Hacks. We'll be right back. This is Fresh Air. Okay, so part of what you talk about in your new comedy special is being bisexual. And I want to play an excerpt of that part of yourisexuals. Everybody wants us,

but no one wants us. The straights don't claim us. The queers certainly don't claim us. Hey, lesbians, what did we ever do to you besides lead you on and break your heart? Why are you mad i wonder how else can i say this bisexuals are the jews of the lgbtqia plus community is that tracking everyone's like ah bisexuals they're just shape-shifting maniacal villains. They're not one of us. Ring a bell, Jews?

That's so funny. Thanks. So do you still feel that way, that bisexuals, even though they're the B in LGBTQ plus IA, that even though they're the B and are officially recognized, that they're still estranged from the community? Because people used to think, I don't think that's as true now, that if you're bisexual, you're just afraid of committing to one team or the other. You know what? I think some people still think that. I think there's a lot of, you know, that stuff that's still pretty ingrained. I think that people in general are fearful of identities that are not binary. I think we as people really like for red to mean stop and green to mean go. of themselves and others when they are confronted with someone who is secure in the middle, secure with gray, you know, in a world that tries very desperately to be black and white.

I also think, like, people are so accustomed to thinking of things as being on a spectrum, especially for, like, neurotypical people. But when it comes to sexuality, it's sometimes, well, you have to fit into one of the categories. Yeah, that has been my experience. And, you know, it used to really destroy me. I used to be so susceptible to any biphobia I would experience. And again, not again, but I would like to just say that in the grand scheme of oppression on the totem pole within, you know, the queer community, I hope I'm not misinterpreted as placing, you know, backhanded comments above in any way the very real violence that a lot of members of the queer community face. I just want to clarify that.

Understood. Yeah. And you know, to my point in the special, it does typically come more so from members of the community, ironically. That's been my experience, at least. Mostly my experiences with biphobia did not come from straight people. But it's okay. Do you feel like parts of your personality change when you're in a relationship with a man versus with a woman? And more specifically, do you find yourself ever unintentionally and against your will falling more into conventional gender roles when you're in a relationship with a man? You know, I definitely think I am different in relationships with men versus women. And I think when I'm with a man, I'm actually so violently resisting those traditional gender roles. But I typically tend to date men who are,

I guess you could call them feminine. I mean, I definitely feel like when I date men, I wear the pants. So I guess that's, I'm mommy's girl. Yeah, I think that's kind of how I operate. You know, because my mom was 12 years my father's senior, and, you know, in many ways, my dad is a highly emotional guy, which is a wonderful thing. Dad, don't be sensitive. That's not a bad thing. It's nice that you're sensitive. I think, you know, my ideas of gender roles

have been totally flipped from jump. You know, my view on what it means to be a woman is sort of contrary to the popular notion. Just like you say in the opening bit on your comedy special, which we excerpted at the beginning of the show, that your idea of a woman is a man. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. So your father's mother was a lesbian, and he was raised mostly by two women. Did you meet your grandmother? I did. Yeah. Did she talk with you about what it was like to come out, I think, in 1962. You know what?

She did, but she was someone who really, like, you know, and she's someone from this generation of, like, oh, it was fine. You know, like, I'm sure she had experienced a lot of really terrible things, but she didn't know to necessarily deem them as such. I think a lot of those women are tough from that generation especially queer women my god and you know their stories are very rarely heard and i feel very lucky to have been um you know able to talk with her about it but yeah she certainly you know from my dad's telling you know it was tough her family really did not embrace her and you know, it was tough. Her family really did not embrace her. And, you know, it was this very tight knit Jewish community in Philly. And, you know. Yeah. Yeah. My dad's from Philly. I'm a big Eagles fan. Go Birds. Oh, Philadelphia is where our show is based.

I know. And she just kind of, you know, like I detail in the special, she left Philly and set out for California and kind of started over. She had the love of her brother, but I think there were a lot of folks who just couldn't, especially the women around, they just could not tolerate someone violating order in that way. What would the neighbors think? No, exactly. Oh, my God. It's like, you know, she was such a black sheep in that way. But, you know, like I said, I'm so proud to be a descendant of the great Edna Swerdloff. Did it make it any easier for you to, you know,

come out as bisexual because of your grandma and knowing that she was a lesbian. That was perfectly acceptable in your family. I mean, she's your father's mother. Yeah. Well, I feel so lucky to be raised by a liberal Jewish Los Angelino family. I got really lucky in that way. And yeah, my dad's mom being gay certainly made it far more acceptable, you know, for me to feel safe to come out as queer. And my older sibling is trans and

my stepsister is trans as well. And so we come from a very queer family and everybody's really cool. Do you ever wonder about that? Like if there is a kind of like genetic basis for gender? That's a funny question to ask because obviously gender is based on genetics. I know what you mean. Yeah, but there's something many siblings who are both queer. Yeah, I've seen that too. So many of my friends are two queer kids in a family. Like, I would not dare make any official scientific claims, but I definitely have wondered about that. And in the case of my family, it's certainly in the water, you know.

So I want to ask you about Judaism, because it's mentioned several times in your comedy special. And I mean, obviously, your parents are Jewish. To what extent were you raised with like, Jewish customs and rituals and Judaism beyond the high holy days? I come from a Reformed background. I went to Temple Isaiah in Los Angeles. It's a very liberal, cool, inclusive temple. You know, I went to a shul with a lady rabbi, gay cantor. The head of the temple was a woman, a Latino woman. And so, yeah, like my view of Judaism is a very colorful, vivid, diverse, accepting rendition, if you will. It was always a really positive place for me, Judaism. I love the way that I have gotten to experience it. And I had a really wonderful experience of it. Does being Jewish influence your sense of the meaning of life?

You know, like, what is larger than yourself? What is happening in the universe? I love this. I love this question. Yeah. I mean, you know, because we do not have heaven and hell in Judaism, the main takeaway from that for me is that heaven is earth. You know, we are here for one short amount of time. And tikkun olam, we have to heal the earth, you know, l'dor v'dor from generation to generation. It's like all of these really beautiful values that are Jewish do affect my life and how I live it and what I am grateful for and what I place importance upon. And my view as a lover of the natural world is, to me, very Jewish, you know, like really taking care of the earth and trying to called J'ai de l'oublié. It's a French song, which translates to I have forgotten, or I must have forgotten. And it's by somebody I never heard

of, Manu Roblin. Roblin. Roblin. Manu Roblin. Hannah Einbinder, thank you so much for coming on our show. It's been a pleasure to talk with you. I wish you much more success, because I'd like to see more of you. Oh, thank you so much, Terry. I appreciate you. Yeah, no, I appreciate you. And so, Hannah Einbinder's new comedy special

on Max is called Everything Must Go and she stars with Jean Smart in the series Hacks which originates on HBO and also

can be streamed on Mac. façon de m'embrasser et de me regarder et de me regarder j'ai pu l'oublier l'oublier mes yeux se sont perdus dans un rêve inconnu

où tu as disparu ce passé que ta voix devrait faire revivre en moi Where you have disappeared It's happened that your voice Should make me live again I forgot That's the song J'ai de l'oublier Which opens and closes Hannah Einbinder's new comedy special

Everything Must Go It's streaming on Max Einbinder stars with comedy special, Everything Must Go. It's streaming on Max. Einbinder stars with Jean Smart in the series Hacks, which is also streaming on Max. Tomorrow on Fresh Air, our guest will be one of the most admired and vilified men in America, Dr. Anthony Fauci. In a new memoir, he reflects on decades of managing public health crises from AIDS to anthrax to Ebola and fighting the

COVID pandemic during the Trump presidency, including receiving profanity-laced tongue lashings from Trump. I hope you'll join us. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Amy Salet, Phyllis Myers, Anne-Marie Boldenato, Sam Brigger, Lauren Krenzel, Heidi Saman, Teresa Madden, Thea Chaloner, Susan Yukundi, and Joel Wolfram.

Our digital media producer is Molly C.V. Nesper. Roberta Shorrock directs the show. Our co-host is Tanya Mosley. I'm Terry Gross.