Fresh Air - Jenny Slate

Episode Date: March 12, 2024

The comic/actor returns. Now she has a 3-year-old daughter, who she sings to in the voice of her character Marcel the Shell with Shoes On. Slate spoke with Terry Gross about finding comedy in her feelings, divorce, and growing up in a haunted house. Her new stand-up special on Amazon Prime Video is Seasoned Professional.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

This is Fresh Air. I'm Terry Gross. The first time I interviewed comic and actor Jenny Slate, she told me that when she was in her 20s, she felt like an imposter adult. That interview was 10 years ago when Slate was 32. Now, she's a mother. Her daughter was born during the COVID lockdown. Getting married, getting pregnant, and the pain and Joy of Giving Birth are at the center of Slate's new comedy special, Seasoned Professional, which is streaming on Amazon. In her earlier Netflix comedy special, Stage Fright, I learned that she grew up in a house her family believed was haunted. Slate is back on her show, and there's lots more to talk about. She co-wrote and starred in the Oscar-nominated animated film, Marcel the Shell with Shoes On,

adapted from the web series that she co-created. She's done voice work for other animated films and TV shows, including Bob's Burgers, Big Mouth, The Lego Batman Movie, The Secret Life of Pets, and Zootopia. She played a laundromat customer in the Academy Award-winning film Everything Everywhere All at Once. She was a regular on The Kroll Show and had a recurring role on House of Lies. Although she was on just a few episodes of Parks and Recreation,

a lot of people know her for her role as Mona Lisa Saperstein, one of the Saperstein twins. She starred in the movie Obvious Child, which was the occasion for our first interview. Let's start with a clip from her new comedy special. Here she is talking about giving birth to her daughter. I had a baby. I'm not trying to skirt the issue or, like, deny it. Like, I did it. I did it.

She's there. But, like, it does still feel like I'm, like, it wasn't me. Like, I did it. Like, it's hard to wrap my mind around it and like I was pregnant for a long time and I understood that I was but like even on the way to the hospital when my body was like really hurting and stuff was starting to leak out I was just like kind of feels like someone's going to sub in here though. Like it's just such an extreme experience that I just was like, I don't know.

It just doesn't feel like something I would do, you know? Like would I knock on someone's door after four dates at 2 a.m. and be like, I just need to tell you I'm in love with you. Like, yeah. Extreme stuff, I've done it. But, like, this, I was like, oh, I don't know. It just doesn't seem like what she would do. And, like, anytime something's been hard or I haven't wanted to do it, like, I've always just been able to quit or be fired. It just so, it just felt like, I just don't feel like this was meant to be sent.

Like I wanted to have the baby, but I was like, did you mean for me to do this though? Jenny Slate, welcome back to Fresh Air. That clip is so funny. Thank you. So I'm wondering, you know, I said that in your 20s, you felt like an imposter adult. Now that you're a mother, do you feel like a genuine, actual, real adult? Well, I guess so. But I think I've also started to understand that that definition is like really rather subjective or it doesn't mean one thing. But, you know, do I feel capable?

Do I feel like I'm supposed to be here doing what I'm doing? Yeah, I do. But I still have the same personality that I've always had, and that's rather, that's kind of a stunner, I guess. Who did you expect to be after you became a mother? It's so strange, but it's like I do say to my husband sometimes, like, when is Ida, our daughter, is she going to have a moment where she's like, oh, it's I'm calling her mom. But like, this is Jenny.

You know, it's just Jenny. It's like I think I thought maybe some I mean, I think the good thing is that my cheaper vanities have kind of fried off in the exhaustion and also the thing like seeing, you know, connecting with things that are really, really meaningful in parenting. But I think I just thought maybe I would be calmer or be given info that I definitely have not been given. I have to keep finding it. You know, you say in your special that, you know, people think my feelings are too much and no one wants to deal with them. What kind of feelings do you think are perceived as too much? Um, being very sensitive. Let's see. Yeah, it's hard to think about it now. But I think

because when I say it out loud, there's a part of me that's like, no, you're good, you know, but the fact is that it's the like constantly checking to see if the other person um how they're perceiving a situation or like what does your face mean why are you making that face it seems today that you have like a micro a tiny micro bad mood what's it about what's going to happen why is it there is it is it going to lead to something worse is there something you're not sharing why aren't you sharing it is it because you're afraid that I can't take it? Is it because you think I'm not a strong person? Do you secretly not like being around me? Am I stressful?

You know, and then that's very stressful. Yes, yes, yes, yes. I know. Is that just all happening in your head or you're actually asking these questions to the other person? Oh, there's very little that happens in my head that's not going directly into my husband's face. But I also think that I've learned to be respectful about that. And, you know, there are some things that are harder for me to tolerate. Like I see one flash of a thing and I'm like, what is that? You need to talk about it with me right now. But I will also say that I think that that's one of the things that my husband likes the best about me, because I really, I deeply respect him, but benefits our relationship to let something pass for a certain amount of

time without discussing it. But, you know, I bet sometimes he wishes that I could be a little more quote unquote chill, you know? Do we have to talk about it? Yeah. Like right when he's falling asleep? Does he need that? I actually know that that's kind of a no, a don't do it zone. Yeah. So obviously there's a very kind of sensitive, reflective part of you. But when you're on stage, you turn that into a very almost loud kind of comedy. You know, you're laughing or sometimes screaming. So how do you turn these kind of vulnerable, sensitive things into the

kind of comedy you do on stage? I think they're already that. The way that I would relay this experience, like if you asked me to tell you what it is right now, it would look the way it looks when I'm doing stand-up. There would be screaming, there would be a doorway into my imagination where I'm like imagining what would have even had to happen in the other person's head in order for them to interact with me in this way. And that is my experience. It is like kind of a, I feel like I'm having sort of like an emotional multimedia experience all the time. I'm not one of these people that's like going through her life and being like, oh, that's material. Oh, you know, like I'm going to do

something interesting. So maybe it will be material. I'm just, I'm just going through and living my normal life, but I don't feel that I have to do anything to turn it into comedy. For example, the first clip that you played about whether or not I've done extreme things, it's like usually it's behavioral, relational stuff that I've done. So it's knocking on someone's door in the morning to say, after four dates dates to say, I love you. That was the extreme thing that you improvised? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when you first realized that you were sensitive, and also sensitive in the kind of way where you're always like reading somebody else and trying to adjust for that. Did you see that kind of sensitivity as as a strength or a vulnerability, something you wanted to change? I think it was unconscious at first. It was just like something that I was doing and I didn't notice it. And that's really hard because there were returns on my perceptions. And, you know, it was like they were never flattering. Just like as a kid, it was like, you're doing something wrong. They don't like it.

It was just like a lot of criticism that I didn't understand was starting from within in a way that I was approaching general relational dynamics. A lot of people don't do that. And I probably could have had a different experience. But then I think that when I started doing stand-up and realized, and that was like I started doing stand-up in my early mid-20s, maybe 23, 24. And I realized like, oh, a lot of what I want to talk about is how I feel. And I started to be more aware of it.

And I also started going to therapy. And I think I felt ashamed of how much it was so self-focused. Like, you know, what does this person think about me? I just felt like, why am I like this? Like, this is such a gross way to be. You know, I can see how that kind of constantly reading another person's expressions or reading between the lines of what they're saying could be a real asset as a comic, because as a comic, or at least the kind of comic you are, you're reflecting out loud about your inner life. So what can be complicated in the moment can really pay off, I think, as a comic? Oh, I think so too. I also think that, like, it helps me to separate my real self from what I'm seeing in someone else and then internalizing.

One thing I've noticed about myself is that when I am upset with something that someone else is doing, I have often, until very recently, tried to look inside of myself to figure out where the source of their bad behavior comes from in me. Like, what did I do to make this um you know person on the date or boss that I have what did I do to make them be like this um and then in getting on stage and telling the story and needing it to be dynamic and that like other characters have to exist besides you it allows you to be like oh I actually didn't do that. The other person, they're weird and they're weird. They did this weird thing. But then I'm also weird because my

response was absolutely bizarre. And then you have like comedy. Look at these weirdos doing weird things. And, you know, with other people now, it's become more of like, how do I turn this into empathy? Like if I am interested in this person, if I see myself starting to focus on them, make it about them. Ask questions, don't make weird assumptions and stow them inside of myself and suffer by that. That's a really interesting point, to make it more about them. Like, are you okay? How are you feeling? As opposed to, what's wrong with me? When you got into comedy, how old were you and what was your very early material like? I was in the improv group at Columbia and that to me actually feels like the start of it,

even though it was, you know, like a school activity. But that is really when I started to form as a comedian. Then I think when I was 23 was the first time that I started doing stand-up. And I believe the very first show that I did was about, like I was talking about working in retail and how much I disliked it. But I can't really remember what it was. But I do remember getting off stage and being like, but that was a weird fit. Like, why is it funny when I say things at dinner parties, but I'm not talking about that on stage? And very quickly, I was like, oh, that's what I'm supposed to do.

I'm just supposed to do, you know, what I would do on a date or hanging out with a fun friend, a new friend, and I want them to know what my life has been. I already do this. I already try to make people laugh in order to, like, engender a bond or a fondness. And so I just started going on stage and talking about my parents and my childhood. I think one of the main stories that I told over and over again, because I am fascinated by it, was how they like got in a fight with a contractor who was working on our house and there was like a hole in our roof because he was like, forget it. And he left. And how the bats, like we had just so many bats in our house because we had like an open roof for a while. And like, it really, it still makes me laugh. I won't talk about anything on stage if it's like a dead subject for me. Like, I think

of standup as, at least for me, you know, everybody does it differently, but it's like a nugget of a story that I have. And the more I tell it, it starts to, like, get brighter and brighter. And then suddenly it reaches a peak and you can tell, you can feel the light, like, starting to go out. And sometimes something will, I'll be like, this is just a rock now. It's nothing. I don't want to talk about it anymore. It's not funny to me. I'm done. But then like 12 years will go by, and suddenly I'll be like, oh yeah, remember that story about that girl that spit on my face at synagogue at Yom Kippur, and I couldn't yell at her because it was the Day of Atonement. I'm like, that's ready to come back right now for me. I mean, like, I'm like, that's next. I,

especially now that I have a daughter. I'm still thinking about all the bats and wondering, did you think a lot about like early vampire films? Because that's what I associate bats with, but also bats are famous for all the dung in bat caves. So did you end up with like dung on your bed or on the kitchen table? No. What happened was, so first of all, yes, vampires for sure. had a had a recurring dream of like that Dracula was like trying to fool me um into allowing him into my um my room so that he could like kill me you know and the and I had this like recurring dream where I would um I would see a frog at the end of the bed and I'd be so pumped um that there

was a frog like this is my personality but I was so excited about this like big green frog. And I was just like, yes, this is so cool. I'm going to catch that frog. And then I would go towards it and he would be like, whoa. And it would be Dracula in like a tuxedo. I'd be like, oh, no, I'm dead. And then I'd wake up in a sweat. And so I got really, really frightened and I slept with my, oh, no, I'm dead. And then I'd wake up in a sweat. And so I got really, really frightened. And I slept with my head under the covers, which became this like huge thing for my parents that they were like, you're going to suffocate, you're going to suffocate. And I just didn't care. Like I just, they told me this is like really unsafe. But, and they had my grandfather who was like, you know, the guy, like I would listen to anything he said. And he was like, you're going to suffocate. And I was like, yep, got it.

But I still did it. And then my dad, he would like really come out in the middle of the night in his nighttime apparel, which at the time was a very, very long nightshirt that he worked at the time at the computer company called Wang, which was like before IBM. Like it was like one of the first computer companies. It was called Wang. And he had this like shirt that said Wang on it. And he would run down the hallway with an old tennis racket and swat the bats against the hallway. And we had like bat blood on our wallpaper, I remember, just being like, he got one, you know?

Like instead of a mosquito, it was a bat. Yeah, just such a bummer. Like just such an intense way to live and be. And I thought it was really funny. I talked about it on stage for so long because I was fascinated by it. Like, wow, I thought this was normal for so long that I didn't even think about it. And now I realize that this was actually very specific. Now I'm thinking also about growing up in a house

that your family, I mean, including your parents, especially your father, believed was haunted. Yeah. So tell us about that. You talk about that in your first comedy special. Yeah, I believe it was haunted, too. You know, take it or leave it. Like, everyone has their own opinions about the spirit world and apparitions.

But, yeah, my dad had discovered a packet of love letters that were written to one of the previous owners of the house, but they weren't from her husband. They were from some sort of a captain of a ship. And when my parents first moved in, my mom woke up smelling pipe smoke, and my dad smoked a pipe at the time. And she called out to him to come to bed and then rolled over and realized that he was asleep. And so she woke him up and she was like, you left your pipe burning. You're going to burn down the house. And so he went out into the hallway and saw on the stairs, says he sort of saw it but didn't see it, but he saw it, but he didn't see it, a man in sort of like a heavy like mariner's, seaman's jacket walking up the stairs. And there was a bunch of other stuff that happened.

And I'm the only one that never saw anything, actually, which in itself is scary to me because I feel like there's, like, a backlog. You know, it's all going to, like, come at once. So between the bats and your parents thinking you lived in a haunted house, that sounds like a horror film. Yeah, it does, doesn't it? Produced a comedian. Yeah, I was scared of our house growing up. Like I was sad, certainly sad when my parents moved out.

But it was a very beautiful house. A lot of parents would say, you know, it was just coincidence or dad just woke up and he was still like half dreaming. So don't worry, because there's no such thing as a haunted house. But that's apparently not what your parents said. No, I know they did not. I mean, I think, I think we were all a bit proud of it, too. You know, it's mystical. And I think it was sort of a point of, it was kind of like a treasure, but like a terrible one to have. And, you know, I don't remember ever thinking that my parents would lie to me, you know, like even if it might be frightening or hurtful. And I think they're very thoughtful people. But the other thing is, like, they might not have known how scared I was. Okay, we need to take another break here.

So let me reintroduce you. If you're just joining us, my guest is comic and actor Jenny Slate. Her new comedy special, Seasoned Professional, is streaming on Amazon. We'll be right back after a short break. I'm Terry Gross, and this is Fresh Air. Hi there, it's Tanya Mosley, here to share more about my new series of Fresh Air Plus bonus episodes.

I love when he casts his mom in movies. It feels so authentic. I know. You know, she was also in the film Goodfellas, which I also love. I need to get that screenplay, by the way. I don't have that one. For the next few weeks leading up to the Academy Awards, I'll be talking about all of my favorite movies with my colleague Anne-Marie Baldonado.

If you want to hear what movies I love and which screenplays I actually own and use as creative direction, sign up for Fresh Air Plus at plus.npr.org. Let's get back to my interview with comic and actor Jenny Slate. Her comedy special, Season Professional, is about getting pregnant, giving birth, and becoming a mother, and a lot of other subjects along the way. It's streaming on Amazon. She co-created, co-wrote, and starred in the Oscar-nominated animated film Marcel the Shell with Shoes On. She's done a lot of voice work for animated TV shows and movies, including Bob's Burgers,

Big Mouth, the Batman Lego movie, The Secret Life of Pets, and Zootopia. She was in several episodes of Parks and Recreation as one of the Saperstein twins. She had a recurring role on the series House of Lies and starred in the film Obvious Child. I want to ask you about Marcel the Shell with Shoes On, which started as an animated web series that you created with your then, were you still married when you created it? Or was he your boyfriend then? I'm trying to get the sequence right. Oh, yeah, we were just, yeah, we were boyfriend and girlfriend when we made the first Marcel Lachelle short film. And remind me of his name. Dean Fleischer Camp. So you and Dean

started the series as boyfriend, girlfriend, and then you were married. And then you divorced and continued the series together, which is another story. I should say that the film version, it started as a web series, and then the film adaptation, which you also did with Dean, was Oscar nominated for Best Animated Feature. How did you come up with the idea of having a shell as the leading character in the story? Well, it started with me doing the voice. I was like just as a goof doing this voice. I was like doing a weird voice while we were. Can you do it for us?

Yeah, I can do it right now. This is what it sounds like. Yeah. Okay. And I was doing it while we were at a wedding. And Dean had, he said he would make a video for a friend's comedy show, but he hadn't done it. And he was like, can I interview that voice, basically, like we didn't have the character yet. And so we got him from the wedding, he interviewed me more, I said some more stuff. He had enough audio that it was like, oh, we're dealing with someone who's really small, it seems.

And then he went to the local arts, like the craft store and the toy store in Brooklyn where we lived. And he bought like a kind of like a knockoff of a Polly Pocket. It wasn't a Polly Pocket. It was sort of like a just a brand. And, and he did a bunch of different character designs. And, and finally he took some like molding, you know, like what would you call it? Like plasticine or like molding clay and put it in the shell hole and stuck the eye in there and glued the shoes on. And I came back to our apartment and he was like, I think this is, this is the guy. And I was like, oh, yeah, that's the guy for sure. And so just kind of both of us feeling our way. But he is 100% responsible for the character design.

And I just think it's so, I just think Marcel looks perfect. I think he's a perfect looking creature. When you were creating Marcel's voice, I think you said it was a voice you'd used before? I think I had tried to use it one time when I was on SNL, but I vocally could not figure out how to hold on to it. And I had lost it. I couldn't find it. I couldn't do it, literally. And it was like, oh, great, like another failure here. And I mean, looking back on it, I'm really glad that I didn't spend that in that context, just because it led to so much more creative control for me to do it just outside of that community. But I, yeah, I've suddenly just came back and I held on and I was able to

click into it. And the more I do it, the more I can find it right away. Can you do it a little bit more so we can hear it? Yeah I mean you could probably just like I can I can do it like whenever I want to but um probably at the end of a day of like recording it I get like a little I get tired like my voice feels tired but it doesn't like hurt to do it or anything. But even doing it, it's almost like if a person were to do like repeated movements with their body, they get into like a more like clarified mental state. That's like kind of how I feel about it as well. It's such an earnest voice. I've heard you say that you talk to your daughter, your three-year-old daughter, sometimes in Marcel's voice.

How did you start doing that? I talk in Marcel's voice sometimes without realizing it. A lot of times, like, there's a running commentary. Like, especially if, you know, if we're in traffic or we're in a line, it's really fun, you know, in a car with just my family to be like, oh, this is taking forever. You know, it's just, it's just like how to get into it. And she, the first time she heard it, like her, you know, she was like, what is that? What is that? And she thinks he lives inside of me, but that's not disturbing to her. She also knows what he looks like, but she never asked to see him. She just wants to talk to him. What do you tell her in Marcel's voice that's different from what you tell her in your voice?

Marcel gets more info from her. So actually, as Marcel, I just ask her questions. You know, like, why didn't you like that sandwich? What was wrong with it? What happened at school today? She'll give Marcel a bigger answer, which is really nice. And then she likes singing with Marcel. Do you want to sing in Marcel's voice and tell us how you do that? Yeah, it's like, okay, this is one of the songs that Ida and I sing together. There's a bright golden haze on the meadow. There's a bright golden haze on the meadow. There's a bright golden haze on the meadow.

The corn is as high as an elephant's eye. And it looks like it's climbing straight up to the sky. A song from Oklahoma. I love that song. Oh, what a beautiful morning. It's the best. Yeah, okay. I love that song. Oh, what a beautiful morning. It's the best. Yeah, okay. That's great.

Is it hard to maintain the voice while you're singing? I think it's easier to sing in Marcel's voice than it is to speak in Marcel's voice. Why is that? I'm not sure. I really actually don't know. I do a lot of voice work, but I'm not in any way a trained performer. I've not been to an acting conservatory or singing classes or nothing. So I'm just working with whatever I have.

Now you do voices for other animated series. You've done a voice for Bob's Burgers and Big Mouth, Zootopia, other animated films. So do you want to Tammy. She's not nice. She's really selfish. She wants everyone to look at her right now. It's just kind of like me doing a mean, my version of a mean girl voice. And they wrote that character and then asked me to play it, which I love. And then I'm also on another show on Fox called The Great North, which is so funny, written by the and created by the Molyneux sisters who they were they were wrote on Bob's Burgers as well. And I play a teenager named Judy. And like, it's always a version of my voice. But with Judy, it's like, I just kind of like lighten it up a little bit. And I just sort of like, just like don't enunciate as much. And like, I'm just like, kind of think about things. And yeah, like, you know and I just sort of like just like don't enunciate as much and like I'm just like kind of think about things and yeah like you know I just like kind of talk about this and

um it's sort of my voice but I just like just a little bit sort of more relaxed pulled back well we have to take another break here so let me reintroduce you if you're just joining us my guest is comic and actor Jenny Slate her new comedy special Seasoned Professional, is streaming on Amazon. We'll be right back. This is Fresh Air. Let's get back to my interview with comic and actor Jenny Slate.

Her new comedy special, Seasoned Professional, is about getting pregnant, giving birth, and becoming a mother, and it's about a lot of other subjects along the way. How did you know that you could do voices? Oh, man. I mean, forever, it's been my delight to do voices, and I've just always thought the voices are the funniest thing. Like, as a kid, I thought Robin Williams as the genie was just, it was like drugs for me.

Like, I just thought that's the best. I loved Saturday Night Live. I loved when people spoke in voices that weren't theirs. I just thought that that was one of the funniest, most startling, eye-catching things that a performer could do. And I've just always loved it and always tried to do as many voices as I can. But I'm really bad at, like, accents from other countries. I can't do any, like, real accents. Like, I can't do any, I don't think, at all.

Were there other animated characters whose voices you loved growing up? Oh, yeah. I mean, to the, like, you know, the trickly, just sickening, like, the trickly, sweet voices of the chipmunks like, you know, the trickly, just sickening, like the trickly sweet voices of the chipmunks were, you know, I just like loved how that sounded and would like use the record player to speed things up so that I could hear that tone. But I guess, I guess my favorite voice actually on TV was Pee Wee. Oh, Pee Wewee was great. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. He really screamed. He really yelled at people. Right. You know, which I love. And I always thought Pee-wee was, I mean, Pee-wee has some attitude as the character, but I guess that got deep in me because I love to scream on stage. You do.

And I was going to bring that up. Like you have so many different screams. Yeah. And sometimes you'll do several different screams consecutively. Yeah. So I'm going to ask you, if you don't mind, and if you don't think it'll blow out your voice, to back up from the mic and do some screams for us. How about before each scream, tell us what you're thinking of that the scream represents, like what context going on like a big ride. But like, you know, for example,

I think I just did this on Seth Meyers. And I don't think about it. I don't like pre-load my screams or even know that they're going to come. But I know when I'm performing, I'm allowed to do them. But like one time, like a fortune teller gave me like a really scary fortune. And that reaction that I had was,

Ah! really scary fortune. And that reaction that I had was, and you know, that's the truth. The screams are like the truth. They're like the level of at which I'm feeling things. What did the fortune teller tell you? At the bachelorette party that preceded my first wedding, she told me that I hadn't met the right man, but that I would know it when I met him. Thanks for that. But she was right. Yeah, should have listened.

Can you do one more? Sure. I wonder what, yeah. And then like, okay, then there's one that's like kind of like a variation that happens when there's like, you're watching something and you don't know what's going on, which is like, oh, that's sort of more Tarzan-y.

Do you ever hurt your voice when you scream? Do you know how to scream without shredding your voice? I do know how to scream without shredding my voice. So I do that like when I'm recording for the great north I feel like I scream a lot actually in the great north just because like they live in Alaska and they're always like falling off a cliff or you know like they're like on a sled or something like that but uh but I do know how to do it I will say on stage I'm looking for catharsis and there are things that I don't have a plan but like I somewhere deep inside knows that I want to do it and I need to do it and I will fully scream. And it does like I'll end up hoarse for sure after that. But there's a difference between, you know, pretending to run really fast and running really fast. You've spoken on stage about how no one in your family was divorced

and how awful you felt about being a divorced person, as if it was like a terrible stigma. Why did you feel so strongly about it in a larger culture where so many people get divorced? I think it's probably just very, very basic embarrassment of being like, got it, did it. This is the decision. Never going back.

Absolutely sure. And then having it fall apart rather quickly. Like we weren't married for very long at all. And I think I didn't see myself in the context of the world. I just like saw myself in outer space just being like, this is a really Jenny thing to do. Like you really messed it up again. You know, that's the cheapest way to put it and the most brutal way to put it towards oneself. But I guess I don't like to fail, you know, although I have failed many times. But yeah, I think I just I think it was hard to look at the things that

were actually really sad and really scary. So it was just like, I bundled it into a general mess of shame and embarrassment. One of the things you failed at was one of the most important turning points in your life, all your life, you want to be on Saturday Night Live. And then you got the job. And you accidentally turned Frick into the four-letter expletive. You were supposed to use the euphemism, but the real word came out. So the Frick turned into the four-letter expletive, and you were fired. I think that was the reason you were fired. No, I don't think so, actually. Oh, okay.

Yeah, I think I generally just didn't fit in. Socially, I felt like I fit in. Like, I'm still friends with most of, you know, the people, like, that I work with. But I did not click in as a person who could work there for whatever reason. Like, yeah, I mean, it's, I just was not a good fit. Yeah, I would imagine that that's why. Did they explain why? No, they didn't.

And I actually found out that I was fired like on the Internet. So it just kind of was like. Was that through word of mouth that was on the Internet or a press release? Yeah, I think it was on like Deadline Hollywood. And somebody that I knew was like, oh, no, I'm so sorry. I saw the article in the trades, basically. And I was just like, what? I didn't see it.

I hadn't seen it yet. Your first comedy special was called Stage Fright. And you attribute your stage fright in part from getting fired at Saturday Night themselves. It's like just in their life. And maybe if someone had a picture of you, it was like, you know, in an album, like I just didn't understand that there would be an online forum commenting on me. And yeah, like, you know, I'm a normal person in my way. It hurt my feelings and it made me anxious and less willing to show myself to people. But I also knew that that was not a good place to end. So I tried to work through it. If you're just joining us, my guest is Jenny Slate, and her new comedy special

is called Season Professional. It's streaming on Amazon. We'll be right back. This is Fresh Air. When I interviewed in 2014, as our time was about to run out, we had been talking about stage fright and how you went to a hypnotist who you kind of attribute to helping you overcome the stage fright and you think you were hypnotized. So you went back to the hypnotist to help you overcome your habit of sleep eating. And I had to cut off that part of the conversation

because we had to end the interview. Our time was running out. And so I'd like to pick up where we left off the last time. I'm not sure what sleep eating is. Well, it used to be. And also like, I used to also just like smoke a lot more weed. You know, now I don't anymore. It's been maybe six years since, like, there has been any marijuana in my life. And, like, it makes me so paranoid. And it's just, I'm never going back. But maybe it was a function of that, of just, like, being hungry from what they call the munchies. But for me, what it was, was like, I would be almost fully asleep and go into the kitchen and I would eat something and then usually not return it. So we would like wake up in the morning and go into the kitchen and there would be ice cream out, things like that, like things that had been ruined. I think it's a major sign of anxiety. It's not something that I don't sleep eat anymore, but I can tell when I am fretting and worrying because I usually wake up around three in the morning and have to go and have like a little snack. And then the second I have it, my mind goes blank and I'm able to rest. But it only happens when I'm anxious. Do you think this hypnosis helped with that? I don't think so. I don't think so.

And I also think that I really pushed mostly through whatever he did to me to get rid of the stage fright. It was better for a while. And then it just came back so much around the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It just came, like, it's just, I really want to do a live stage show, like a more of kind of like a one-woman show. And the thing holding me back is, like, I am delighted when I think about the rehearsal process. I'm delighted when I think about things like set design, what the material is. And I am so terrified thinking of like grossed out, genuinely thinking of the time between like a matinee and an evening performance. And like

the time like when I play clubs, which is not that often, but I do like two shows a night. And after getting off stage after the first show, the feeling of like, yeah, I did it. And then the realization that like I have to go again is it's like, what is the it's like a Sisyphusian. It's just like, oh, my God, I cannot believe that I have to do this again. It is. It's like tension release. Oops, tension. Totally. Yeah. It's not a comfortable feeling. And it's not a like, the lady doth protest. Like, you know, tell me I'm really good. And like, I should be doing this. It's like, I don't like it. It's not a good fit for me. And I have to take whatever success I've

earned to allow myself a schedule that is doable for me in a neurological way. It really, really messes with me, the stage fright. When you said something about paranoia and smoking weed, did the weed make you paranoid? Yes, 100%. What were your paranoid thoughts when you were smoking? They were really, they weren't even like well-formed self-criticism. It was just like, it was, they were embarrassing because they themselves seem sort of dumb. It was just like, you're bad. This is bad. You're bad. But even though that sounds

boring, it was deeply threatening. Like, have you ever had a really bad dream, but it's like, you're just watching someone open an envelope or something, but like the dread is so crazy high? It was that. It almost felt, the sense of dread was very, very high. And then occasionally I would like recall a silly thing that I said, or maybe a time that I was bragging, or like, why did I just randomly, you know, when that person asked me how I was doing, why did I tell them about my job? Why didn't I tell them about something in my life? You know, like, you're such a jerk. Like, it would be things like that. What kept you smoking weed if weed made you paranoid?

It used to be really fun. So I think I was waiting for the fun to return. And every time I would return to it, and this happened like over a summer, it was just like, this is bad. You're not getting anything out of this. And it's making you more depressed and anxious. And the second I stopped smoking, I felt so much better. I really did. Did you ever have this fear that like your real self was the smoke was the self that came out on weed and that you really were that paranoid? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like I had this weird sense of being in big trouble. Like what you're seeing now, Jenny, that's how much trouble you're in. That's how much you've asked of your parents, you know, that they would support you, that you haven't been a good listener. Like you tell yourself you're good, but you're bad. It was like these sort of moral judgments and this feeling that maybe I don't know myself.

So our time is about up, but I want to ask you, I know you're preparing for a new series with Michelle Williams. Yeah. Tell us something about that. For me, I feel that I've been waiting for a really long time for somebody to let me be the actor that I know I can be. And so this material offers that to me, and I'm really excited. But also Michelle Williams is one of my favorite actors. And so to be in a scene with her is an honor,

and it allows me to take myself seriously while also making sure that my work ethic is like the best it could have been. And the story is about two best friends, one of whom has a terminal cancer diagnosis and has left her marriage and is asking her best friend to go through the dying process with her. But one thing she wants to do while she is at the end of her life is to finally sort of like actualize herself as a sexual person and to find out what that means for her. And so it's really, it's just like a very, very juicy, juicy series. It's a limited series and I am ready to go.

And the series is called Dying for Sex. It's called Dying for Sex, yes. And it's based off of a podcast that was done by the two friends as they were really going through this experience. Jenny Slate, it's been great to talk with you again. Thank you so much for coming back on the show. Thank you for having me back. It's really nice to—it's always nice to be invited in once, but I always say it's the return, you know, that means that you're okay. You're more than okay.

Thank you so much for having me. This is a real pleasure. Thank you. Jenny Slate's new comedy special, Seasoned Professional, is streaming on Amazon Prime Video. Tomorrow on Fresh Air, our guest will be Eugene Levy. He gets out of his comfort zone for his series,

The Reluctant Traveler. Levy starred in the hit comedy series, Schitt's Creek, that's S-C-H-I-T-T apostrophe S, Creek, the fictional town the series is set in. He co-starred in the sketch comedy series, SCTV, and co-wrote and co-starred

in several mockumentaries, including Best in Show. I hope you'll join us. To keep up with what's on the show and get highlights of our interviews, follow us on Instagram at NPR Fresh Air. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Amy Salet, Phyllis Myers, Anne-Marie Boldenato, Sam Brigger, Lauren Krenzel, Heidi Saman, Teresa Madden, Thea Chaloner, Seth Kelly, and Susan Yakundi.

Our digital media producer is Molly C.V. Nesper. Roberta Shoroff directs the show. Our co-host is Tanya Mosley. I'm Terry Gross.