Fresh Air - On The Road With Harris/Walz

Episode Date: August 15, 2024

As democrats prepare for their national convention in Chicago next week, we take stock of a presidential race transformed. New Yorker staff writer Evan Osnos tells us about the enthusiasm and energy he's seen on the campaign trail with Vice President Kamala Harris and running mate, Minnesota Governor Tim Walz.Later TV critic David Bianculli reviews Bad Monkey, the new mystery series starring Vince Vaughan.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Support for this podcast and the following message come from the NPR Wine Club, which has generated over $1.75 million to support NPR programming. Whether buying a few bottles or joining the club, you can learn more at nprwineclub.org slash podcast. Must be 21 or older to purchase. This is Fresh Air. I'm Dave Davies. Democrats gather in Chicago next week for their national convention in the middle of a presidential campaign that is, well, like no other in our lifetimes. It was already an odd race, pitting former President Donald Trump, trying to regain the office he claimed was stolen from him four years ago against the man who beat him, President Joe Biden. Then came Biden's disastrous performance in a June debate, an attempted assassination that nearly took Trump's life just days before the Republican convention, followed by Biden's withdrawal from the race and his endorsement of his vice president, Kamala Harris. Harris and her new running mate, Minnesota Governor Tim Walz, have suddenly energized Democrats, drawing huge crowds, raising record sums of money,

and erasing Trump's lead in opinion polls. Trump, who is also well-funded and determined, is now attacking Harris in countless ads and public comments, even as he laments Biden's exit from the campaign. For some perspective on where we are now and what to expect, we turn to Evan Osnos, a staff writer for The New Yorker who's covering the contest and recently followed the Democratic candidates in their rallies in key swing states. Osnos has reported extensively from China and the Middle East in the past and shared a Pulitzer Prize in investigative reporting. He's also authored three books, including Joe Biden,

The Life, the Run, and What Matters Now, published in 2020. You can hear him regularly, along with his New Yorker colleagues Susan Glasser and Jane Mayer, on the weekly podcast, The Political Scene. Evan Osnos, welcome back to Fresh Air. Thanks, Dave. Glad to join you. So this is a very different race. Is it hard to recast the convention, or is it a matter of simply changing the speakers and their order? And conventions were either designed to actually nominate the candidate or later, really since the 1970s, they've been mostly an image building exercise, a unifying exercise where you remind people out in the country of who it is that the candidates are and why you should be enthusiastic about it. Remember, at this point, it really was just a complete transplant of who the center of this campaign was. So instead of it being a moment to look back and, in a sense, try to encourage people to celebrate Joe Biden's first term,

they are fundamentally shifting the language and the idea of this campaign to a concept that we are on the cusp of a different future, that Kamala Harris and Tim Walz represent, as they now so often say, an opportunity to turn the page, to say we're not going back. That is a really different kind of message. Right. You know, people talk about the convention bump that a candidate typically gets, you know, a little boost in the polls, a point or two from a week of heavy coverage and positive coverage as they and their allies speak to the nation. You know, televised conventions used to be a common experience among all Americans. Networks would cover them every night. And it was a chance for the party to get its message to voters beyond their base. And I think nowadays that's particularly rare.

To what extent does this convention offer Democrats that chance to speak to a broader audience? Well, I think it does in the sense that there are a lot of Americans who – let's remember, Dave, most people choose to go about their daily lives not thinking about politics. There is this very dedicated subset of people who are obsessed with it. But a lot of people really are only tuning into the presidential race now or even later. And so for them, this is a chance for them to say, well, okay, who is Kamala Harris? Who is Tim Walz? I mean, let's be honest, most Americans had never heard of the Minnesota governor until a few weeks ago. Even a lot of political junkies didn't know anything about him. So in that sense, giving people a chance not only to hear their own, to hear the voices of those candidates and to

hear them tell their story, but also there's going to be these, as you often see, these kinds of videos, which are products. Let's be sure about that. But they're designed to give you a sense of what does this person care about? What shaped them? Was it military experience? Was it growing up in a certain kind of family or a certain part of the country? And this question of a bump in the polls, it is a real thing. I mean, just if you look back over the course since the really as long as Gallup's been measuring this, the largest bounce out of a convention that we've ever measured was in 1992. It was when Bill Clinton in his Democratic convention made this pretty convincing case that George H.W. Bush was responsible for people's economic troubles. The result was a 16-point bounce, which really helped them ultimately win that election.

In this case, one of the questions to look for is whether or not Kamala Harris and Tim Walz have already in a sense had their bounce because they had this very unusual transformation of the race when they both suddenly became the candidates. Maybe people have already tuned in and they may not get that bump that comes out of it. But it is very likely that they will come out of the convention assuming things proceed somewhat normally. And this is maybe not a year to assume anything normal, but they may come out of it with an advantage that will make the challenge for Donald Trump even greater as they approach the final 75, 80 days of this campaign. It's interesting that this time they're returning to Chicago where in 1968, they probably had their most disastrous convention where Hubert Humphrey,

who had been vice president under Johnson, was the nominee essentially because of his relationships with party leaders. And thousands of protesters got into brawls and battles with police. In fact, it was described in a later report as a police riot. It was an ugly thing to watch and it harmed the party. And eventually they lost narrowly to Nixon that year. That's obviously not going to happen this time. But, you know, convictions are often an opportunity for people who differ from the party's leadership in some respects to have their voice. You know, there's an old saying that Republicans work things out, Democrats fight things out.

Well, one point of real division within the party is this question of how the Biden administration has handled the war in the Middle East. And there was earlier in the campaign when Biden was the nominee, there was real concern that that could become the defining divisive issue, that it was generating, particularly in states like Michigan, a source of permanent vulnerability for him. That has diminished somewhat, partly because Kamala Harris is perceived to be perhaps less associated with the policy, even though on paper, in fact, there's not that much difference from how she's talked about U.S. policy towards Israel and the war in Gaza. I think we should be reasonably expecting that there will be protests. This is part of the process. And in Chicago already, there are groups that have applied to protest, have been approved to do so. Some of their attorneys have described it as probably 25,000 people. Chicago is the home to the largest Palestinian community in the country. So you can expect to see things in the streets. I used to work at the Chicago Tribune, Dave, and the memory of 1968 is really strong in the city,

in the minds of the political class, and then also even in the police department. So in a way, they are conscious that the world is watching, as it was said in 1968. So I think there is going to be this thing to watch about how the police manages what will be a tense, perhaps tense encounter. And then there's the question of what goes on inside the convention. withholding their full-throated endorsement of the nominees because of their concerns about Gaza policy. There's been some reporting that, in fact, they are perhaps going to make their presence known by a candlelight vigil or some other kind of activity, but it may not be a floor fight in the conventional sense. There is not a policy platform to be decided that is likely going to be ventilated and resolved out in public view. You know, since that is a point of contention between Kamala Harris and some section of the

Democratic Party, I thought we'd listen to a clip of her dealing with protesters. There was one that got a lot of coverage where some people were chanting and she essentially said, if you want to see Donald Trump get elected, keep saying that. Otherwise, I'm speaking. The one we're going to hear here is a subsequent speech in Arizona where she kind of addressed them in a little more complete way. Let's listen. You know what? Hold on a second.

Hold on. Hold on. Hold on, everybody. Hold on. Hold on. Let me just say this on topic of what I think I'm hearing over there. Let me just speak to that for a moment, and then I'm going to get back to the business in hand. So let me say, I have been clear.

Now is the time to get a ceasefire deal and get the hostage deal done. Now is the time. And the President and I are working around the clock every day to get that ceasefire deal done and bring the hostages home. So I respect your voices, but we are here to now talk about this race in 2024. That was Kamala Harris in Arizona, I think pretty effectively addressing some demonstrators. But that doesn't mean that, you know, they agree with her.

I mean, they appreciate her compassion but want things like an arms embargo until there is a ceasefire in Gaza. How much can this hurt the ticket, do you think? Well, as you say, Dave, look, what you heard her doing was something very important, which is that she was trying to find a solution. She can't try to ignore or stiff arm what were going to be ongoing interruptions in her speeches. You know, that this that was a real change from how she responded in Detroit, which I was at a rally I attended where she said, in effect, if you want Donald Trump to win, then continue talking like that. And that rubbed people the wrong way on the left. You heard about it over the days that followed. And so you see this different way of her talking about it. In strict policy terms, what she's describing is, in fact, what the Biden administration has been pursuing,

which is a ceasefire, getting hostages home. But it is also trying to create essentially a way for people to find their way to giving her the benefit of an immediate arms embargo, which is exactly what many pro-Palestinian protesters are seeking. But she's trying to thread this needle. And I think that so far, the indicators are that in Michigan, for instance, which is a state where there was a lot of vulnerability for Democrats around this issue. Because there's a large Arab population there, right? Exactly. It has a large Arab and Muslim population. And recently, we've seen indications that the Harris campaign has pulled ahead of Donald Trump in some of the polls. It's still small differences, but it is a sign of a shift in tone. I'm interested in Joe Biden's role here. You know, I think it was your colleague Susan Glasser who mentioned that at the rally in Philadelphia when Kamala Harris

introduced Tim Walz that Joe Biden's name was not mentioned at all. It has to be hard for him to watch all of this euphoria for his replacement. I'm wondering, you know, you've reported a lot on the Biden world. What do you hear about what he's thinking or saying? Yeah, I was talking to somebody yesterday who's very close to him who said to me, look, he is disappointed, but not depressed. I think there is a very complicated thing going on right now. He, on some level, came to terms with the reality that his political moment had closed, his political opportunity had closed.

And internally, there was essentially an accumulation of data, of polling evidence that they had realized that in places that he would absolutely need to win in order to have a second term, that they just weren't going to win those. And then in some ways, it was easier for him to reach that decision as a political judgment than as a referendum on his worthiness of a second term, on whether he was up to the task. Because the reality is physically, personally, psychologically, Dave, I don't think that he has come to the same view that a lot of members of the public have, which is that it would be difficult or impossible for him to have done a second term. That's just not how he sees himself.

You know, he has often told people, I don't feel my age. And that's not just a line. I think it really is rooted in his self-perception. But I think it's important you're going to see him at the convention on Monday. This is a big moment. He's going to give a speech, and that is a chance, in effect, to make vivid this sense that Kamala Harris's candidacy does, on some level, rest on the foundation of what came before. It is a movement towards the future and a break with the past, but it would not be possible were it not for some of

the policy gains that were made under the Biden administration. I heard her, interestingly, in Michigan after not mentioning his name in Philadelphia. It was notable to me that she made a point to talk about him at this big rally. And you heard the crowd then start this chant saying, thank you, Joe. So it's a balancing act, but I think it's not one they're going to overlook. You know, it's truly remarkable to see how Kamala Harris and her buoyant running mate, Minnesota Governor Tim Walz, have inspired and energized Democrats since this change occurred. I thought we would listen to a bit of Tim Walz's speech in Nevada. Here he's talking about his background. My dad was a teacher. My older brother was a

teacher. My sister was a teacher. My younger brother was a teacher. And we married teachers. So the privilege of my lifetime was spending two decades teaching in public schools. And you might have heard coaching football to a state championship. Here's —. Don't ever close that yearbook. That's my pro tip. Look, my students and my players are the ones who encouraged me to run for office. They saw in me what I hope to instill in them, a commitment to a common good and something so important, the belief as each and every one of you came here as a single person, a single person can make a difference. Can make a difference. Tim Walsh speaking in Nevada. Boy, they love him. Republicans are already punching holes in his record, and there's going to be plenty more of that.

You've covered politics a long time. Is what we are seeing now something distinctly different to you? It's really kind of fascinating. I have to say we haven't heard a Democratic candidate or really any Republican candidate who has the credibility to make the kind of self-description that you just heard a second ago. Teachers, marrying teachers. We saw his financial disclosures recently in which Tim Walz, frankly, is in a similar position to where a lot of Americans are. He doesn't have a huge amount of savings. He lives in a house at this point that is the governor's mansion. But he's not somebody who spent years on Wall Street. He was not an Ivy League graduate. He's not the thing that has been,

for as much as you hear presidential candidates try to present themselves as the voice of the common man, in a lot of cases, it is a performance that runs pretty thin. It's just not the case with him. It really is his background. And I, you know, Dave, I've spent a lot of the last decade or so kind of talking to people around this country, trying to make sense of what we're all going through in the years since Donald Trump came on the scene in 2015. And the thing that comes to the surface over and over again, no matter where you are, and no matter whether you're talking to a conservative or a progressive, is this sense that people in Washington just really don't have any connection to the lives of people around the country. They just live differently. They have different kinds

of jobs. They have different kinds of education. They just don't know what it feels like. And I think Republicans are going to try everything they can to poke holes in Tim Walz. But it is very hard to present him as something other than a person who knows what it feels like to be out in the country living a normal life. That's who he is. And I think for that reason, he does represent something quite different than we've had in presidential politics in a while. The Republican candidate for vice president is J.D. Vance, and he's made news of his own with past and present statements. I'm wondering, how do you see the interplay between Waltz and Vance? Is that going to be a dynamic of its own that affects the race? It has been interesting so far that in some ways, Tim Waltz is actually filling the role that J.D. Vance wants to play, meaning that Tim Waltz is positioning himself as kind of presenting himself as the everyman, somebody from the Midwest who just has had a regular life. And J.D. Vance's self-presentation, of course, was largely formed out of writing a book about

growing up in Appalachia hillbillyology and coming from humble circumstances and making his way to the top. But it hasn't really played out for Vance, of course, in the election in the way that he or Trump would want. The polling data so far has showed that it has not really delivered many benefits. I think that Vance has been a pugnacious figure since joining this ticket. And the question is a little bit, well, if Vance is the pugnacious figure and Trump is the pugnacious figure, then who is it ultimately who is reaching out to those on the fence voters and saying, I see you, I'm an approachable, appealing, personable figure. That hasn't really communicated. So look, vice presidents, often the most important role that they play in a race is not delivering a specific state or anything like that. It's in

filling out this feeling, this portrait of what the ticket represents. And in that sense, Walt has been a counterbalance to Harris because they're from very different parts of the country. They have very different family backgrounds and ethnic backgrounds. It's not clear what V a great asset for Trump. Let me reintroduce you. We're going to take another break here. We are speaking with New Yorker staff writer Evan Osnos. He'll be back to talk more after this short break.

I'm Dave Davies, and this is Fresh Air. This message comes from WISE, the app for doing things in other currencies. Send, spend, or receive money internationally, and always get the real-time mid-market exchange rate with no hidden fees. Download the WISE app today or visit WISE.com. T's and C's apply. As the Democratic National Convention approaches next week, we're speaking with New Yorker staff writer Evan Osnos about the 2024 presidential race. We're discussing the new Democratic ticket, Vice President Kamala Harris and her vice presidential running mate, Minnesota Governor Tim Walz, just weeks after President Biden dropped out of the race. And we're talking about what to expect as the race unfolds. Evan Osnos appears regularly with his New Yorker colleagues,

Jane Mayer and Susan Glasser, on the podcast, The Political Scene. You know, before we continue the conversation, I just want to give a plug for that podcast. I consume a lot of political information, and I've picked up on this podcast a few months ago, and I will say these are three people who have a lot of experience and insight, and I always learn something I didn't know when I was. Oh, wow. Thanks. Dave, coming from you means a lot. I'll tell Jane and Susan. I appreciate it. Do that. It's called the political scene. I know that you recently traveled to several of these speeches in swing states with Kamala Harris and Tim Walz. And you could see these speeches from anywhere on television. I'm wondering what you get by actually being there. I mean, honestly, when I go, I'm not even really there to listen to the candidate that much.

It's really about the crowd. And it's about trying to understand why they're there and to pick up on the body language of how they're feeling about it. That is the closest proxy that we can ever get as reporters to the voter and the mood in the country. I mean, just the simplest stuff, Dave, like how much are people willing to schlep to get to an event? I mean, this rally in Detroit that I attended the other day, it was hot. And interestingly, people started to faint. I mean, it was just that kind of big crowded space. And every half an hour, somebody would say, we need a medic.

And somebody would come over and they'd get them water, give them some air, and that person would get back up on their feet. But what was noticeable about it was people weren't leaving. I mean, there is a level of intensity of commitment, of passion that is you can't see that from TV. And you can't see it from reading and you can't see it from reading, you know, a short squib about it in the newspaper. You have to go and really feel it. And honestly, the last time we saw that in politics was in 2016 when Donald Trump came on the scene. Because if you've been watching, if you've been watching his speeches on TV as a regular political kind of analyst, you would have said, well, this guy doesn't talk like much of a president. He doesn't have a firm grip on the facts. This clearly isn't going to go anywhere. Remember, people treated it like a joke at the time. And of course, it wasn't because if you'd gone to those rallies, I remember going to the first one in Iowa that I ever went to, and people were lined up as far as possible. And that was a sign of something profoundly different.

And I see that on the ground at these Harris-Walds rallies. It is a level of thirst, really, to be witness to it. And I think that is the hardest, most powerful ingredient in politics. And you can't fake it. You can't engineer it. And when it happens, it really has the ability to shape the course of a race. You know, there's a lot of talk among media critics and certainly Republicans that Kamala Harris, you know, hasn't yet kind of run the crucible. She hasn't engaged with reporters

and taken tough questions. I assume she says she's going to do this. I assume she will. Based on her record, how do you think that'll go? Yeah, I think there's no question she will do it. She said she'll have an interview by the end of the month. Some people said, well, maybe we should be sooner than that. I think that the fact is that her early tenure in the vice presidency was largely defined by an unhappy experience in an interview. There was this kind of now famous interview she gave with Lester Holt in which she talked about her involvement in border policy. She tried to differentiate what was the perception that she was in charge of the border when in fact she said, no, I'm looking at root causes. In any event,

it didn't work. And it cast this really long shadow. When you talk to people who worked with her in that period, they say that she essentially kind of receded into self-doubt. She was afraid of coming out and hurting the administration by doing more interviews. So that contributed to this feeling that she was kind of gradually drifting into the background. And that had a long-term effect. It's part of the reason why today some people say, I don't know exactly who she is. But you also see some very different indicators, Dave, particularly on the night of the debate when Joe Biden had so much trouble on that stage. Kamala Harris came on to CNN shortly afterwards and gave an interview to Anderson Cooper that was pugnacious. She was at that case, she was still defending Joe Biden and making the case that he had done as well as he could. But more to the point, you just saw her kind of more comfortable in the role. And in some ways, that was a soft

start of what eventually became this decisive turn in the feeling among Democrats that she should be the nominee. So let's talk about Donald Trump a little. He loves to mock his opponents. You know, we heard him questioning Harris's racial identity in that interview with the National Association of Black Journalists. And he's kept it up in other ways, talking about nicknames for her. Here's a short clip of a recent speech in which he talks about Kamala Harris's name. Kamala Harris. You know, it's interesting. Nobody really knows her last name.

If you ask people, do you know what her last name is? Nobody has any idea what it is. Harris. It's like Harris. I don't know how the hell did this happen. Donald Trump riffing. You know, there's a narrative among a lot of analysts and including a lot of Republicans that he is harming his own cause by indulging his instincts to engage in this kind of stuff. Do you agree?

Yeah, it's amazing how undone he's been by her entry into the race. I think it's because he's tried a lot of his techniques. You know, he's tried half a dozen different nicknames for her, like laughing Kamala, which just ends up blowing back on him because it turns out that a lot of people out there are actually really kind of thrilled by the sight of a presidential candidate laughing and sort of having some fun in the process. And then, of course, he tried this race baiting when he said that she had, as he said, chosen to be black. It didn't work. And as a result, you've seen him recede a bit. I mean, he was, to borrow a phrase that Tim Walz has used about Trump, in some ways, he's frozen in the face of this very different ticket. He doesn't know

what to do. And last week was the time when he should have been out there doing everything he can to try to shape or define, to use an overused word, what the Harris-Walls ticket was about. Instead, he was at Mar-a-Lago and he gave this one press conference that was completely bizarre, full of really strange claims. lot of these voters out there that what they are seeking above all is not a specific candidate. They are seeking to turn the page from this very difficult last period in politics. And he is, every time he appears, as a reminder that this would in fact be a return to the Trump era. There was a story I saw recently where the reporter asked one of Trump's aides, you know, what about this stuff about the nicknames he's trying out on her? Do you know what they mean? And he said, no, I don't. And he should be just talking about the price of groceries. I mean, there are issues that could

work for him, right? Yeah, it's true. And that's the thing that's kind of baffling is in the past, he did show this ability to figure out. He had this kind of uncanny, almost innate capacity to figure out what a room wanted, what an audience needed. And even if it was a dark thing, he would meet it there. And in this case, he just seems trapped in a version of himself that is, at this point, eight years old. I mean, he's using a lot of the same lines that he used in 2016. And Americans are not the same. We're not the same country that we were. In some ways, I think we've been hardened a bit by the last eight years. You know, people know what it means when a candidate starts to raise crazy claims about the use of artificial intelligence, as

Trump has done to try to undermine the possibility that she's getting huge crowds. I mean, it just almost in an epidemiological sense, Dave, we're no longer naive as a voter population. People are, they've seen his techniques and they don't have quite the same effect the second time that they did the first. We're speaking with Evan Osnos. He is a staff writer at The New Yorker. We will continue our conversation in just a moment. This is Fresh Air. You know, there's a weird stasis to this race in some ways in that, you know, so many Americans have hard, fixed opinions about Donald Trump. And yet, from some of the reporting, there's this volatility to what's happening. And for example, Tammy Kim, who's one of the contributing writers to The New Yorker, wrote a recent article about the youth vote. She noted that a Pew Research report in July found that registered voters under 30 lean towards the Republican Party by sometimes a double-digit margin.

Now, their young people are choosing Harris over Trump by as many as 20 points. That's pretty wild, isn't it? Yeah, that's profound. I was working on a story for a long time before this switch between Biden and Harris about this sense of real malaise, particularly among young people. And it came from this feeling that they lacked agency, that it was almost like politics was this hermetic world that no matter what you said, no matter how much violence was unfolding, gun violence in people's schools, that nothing seemed to matter. And the fact of this switch at the top of the party and this idea that you have somebody coming in who is, let's call it what it is, Kamala Harris listens to music that is of much greater interest to young people. She's got Beyonce playing whenever she steps out on stage. There's a way in which she just feels so much more connected to people's lives if you're under 30, that it had

this immediate electrifying effect. I mean, just as an example, there's an uncommitted delegate in Minnesota, for instance, somebody who has said that they are – they're not willing necessarily to endorse – they weren't necessarily willing to endorse Joe Bidening Harris precisely because his granddaughters came to him and said, look, we're really excited about her and what she represents. And we want you to take a second look. I think you're seeing versions of that play out in families all over the place. And look, I need to be clear here. This is by no means done. I mean, we, if we've learned anything in this race, it is that 80 some days is a tremendously long and turbulent time in this politics. And things could take more somersaults between now and the election. But that change from having young people being fundamentally disengaged to having them be engaged is perhaps the single biggest change that's happened over the course

of the last few months. Yeah. And its suddenness makes you wonder if it could reverse just as quickly. Yeah, I think that's true. And I think what we've seen is that people are open to persuasion, and that is a source of great volatility, and it will stay that way right up until election day. And what do the opinion polls tell us about Black support for this ticket as opposed to Joe Biden? Well, it had been a source of concern for Democrats because black support traditionally has been essential to Democratic victories. And it was weakening for Biden. We're seeing so far actually a big change. There has been a surge of black voting support for Kamala Harris and Tim

Walls. I've seen it just on the ground in rallies. I was in Atlanta. I was in Detroit recently. Both have large, very active black voting populations. And the level of enthusiasm was not something we've seen really since Barack Obama ran for president in 2008. I mean, I talked to a woman at the rally in Atlanta who was in her 70s, and she was there with a walking boot because she had a broken foot. And she said to me, I'm a black woman who has waited my whole life for this, and I wasn't going to miss the chance to see Kamala Harris in person. And she had lined up since nine o'clock in the morning on this broken foot in order to get in that room and see her for herself. Wow. You know, I wanted to ask a question about how you cover a modern campaign.

I'm just wondering, how do you figure out what to focus on? I think the thing that I'm always trying to look for, and this is particularly true about how The New Yorker tries to write about politics, is we're trying to figure out what is the larger meaning of this race, of this moment. It's not just about a candidate. It's about what is this country facing as a period in time? I mean, are we facing a threshold in terms of racial politics, gender politics, class politics? Is it actually about geography? Is it about people moving into separate parts of the country and living almost non-intersecting lives? Is it actually about generations? generations. And I think that's the thing that is kind of thrilling at a moment when so much of politics can feel kind of trapped in this spin cycle of repetitive language and rhetoric, that you do see somebody come into the scene. We thought we understood who Kamala Harris was, but actually we didn't. And this is a moment of humility for the political writers out in the world. A lot of the stuff that people said about Kamala Harris two years ago doesn't really hold true anymore and how the public looks at her. And that's partly a measure of her. It's partly a measure of the moment. But it sort of reminds you that you have absolutely no choice

but to go out there, stand in line, talk to people and hear about what it is that they're feeling and doing and sacrificing and seeking if you're going to try to understand what politics is really about. You know, when you laid out that question a moment ago about what is this moment in America, is it a racial reckoning? Is it a class battle? Is it a set of geographic shifts? It's too much to ask this, but do you have an answer for us? Well, I guess the thing that really rises to the surface for me now is the feeling of how much generational change is this central nerve running through so much of our lives. I mean, it was at the core of why Joe Biden ultimately had to step out of this race, this extraordinary seismic event in politics. I think it is a moment

where we have more Americans who are millennial and Gen Z than we have boomers and above. And it is a shift. We're standing at a moment of change. And this doesn't come around all that often, every 30 years or every 60 years. And we're just beginning to come to terms with what that means about the things that get attention. And I do find that no matter where you are in this country, that is something that comes up over and over. This feeling that there are a lot of young people who have started to turn away from the political class,

the political establishment, even the notion that the popular will is going to be expressed in policies and government. They heard over and over again, there would be a terrible school shooting and what they would hear from the people they had put into office, the elected officials in this country was, we send our thoughts and prayers. And what they didn't get was any meaningful change. And I think that issue, the reason why I return to that issue is that, you know, gun violence,

school shootings is the most acute, brutal demonstration of the failure of policy to address an absolute issue of life and death. And to see the possibility that it might actually become unfrozen as an issue, that is then a way that it can begin to restore people's confidence in the reasons to participate in joining the civic infrastructure of this country, of joining in efforts larger than ourselves and believing that it's worth doing and possible to make a change. And you think Kamala Harris is tapping into that issue? I don't want to overstate it, but I do believe that she is at this point riding an untapped reservoir of energy, of people out there who do want to be a part of something bigger than themselves and their daily lives. You hear it from people out there. They're looking for a sense of belonging. But the idea of being part of something bigger and inspiring has been pretty absent from politics. Curiously enough, one of the few places that we've seen it, and a lot of people don't like what form it takes, but it was the Trump

phenomenon. That did give people in those early years a feeling that they'd been left behind by politics, but here was this person who was speaking for them. That is an incredibly powerful force. And you're now seeing actually that people on the Democratic side are feeling inspired and swept up in something for the first time in a long time. Well, Evan Osnos, thanks so much for speaking with us again. You're welcome, Dave. Thanks for having me. Evan Osnos is a staff writer at The New Yorker. He appears regularly with New Yorker colleagues Jane Mayer and Susan Glasser on the podcast The Political Scene.

Coming up, TV critic David Bianculli reviews Bad Monkey, the new mystery series starring Vince Vaughn. This is Fresh Air. Actor Vince Vaughn, whose ability to toss off sarcastic, rapid-fire dialogue was established in such early films as Swingers and Wedding Crashers, stars in a new 10-part mystery series premiering on Apple TV+. It's called Bad Monkey, and it's based on the novel by Carl Hyasson. Our TV critic David Bianculli has this review.

Carl Hyasson specializes in lighthearted mystery stories that are set in Florida and populated by very colorful characters. You know the headline shorthand phrase Florida man, usually used to describe someone from that state who has done something especially outrageous? Well, Hyasson's novels are full of Florida men. And Florida women, too. The larger-than-life behavior of those characters is one thing that distinguishes a Carl Hyasson story. Another thing is the setting itself. The author knows Florida so well as a longtime

resident that each book is loaded with references to local landmarks, foods, animals, and annoyances. Bad Monkey, both the book and the new Apple TV Plus series, serves up generous helpings of it all, like a heaping bowl of conch chowder. This Florida flavor permeates the series, especially visually. The action takes place in Key West, Miami, and the Bahamas, and the palm trees and beachfronts are everywhere. In the sky, there are menacing clouds forming as a hurricane approaches. Underwater, there's the unexpected grace of a giant manatee and the stealthy patience of floating

alligators. And on land, there are iguana, deer, and one creature we hear about frequently in Bad Monkey but never see, the baby sea turtle. When their eggs hatch, buried in the sandy South Florida beaches, the baby turtles find the sea by navigating by moonlight. But bright streetlights by the beach disorient the baby turtles. So Key West beaches are now illuminated for months by red lights instead. And some scenes in Bad Monkey take full advantage of that, bathing their action and characters in an odd and surreal glow. Not that these characters need any help coming off as odd or surreal. The most normal character in the entire story is Andrew Yancey, a Miami detective who's been demoted for bad behavior and shipped off to Key West where he works as a health inspector for local restaurants.

Yancey is played by Vince Vaughn, who plays him as a wisecracking charmer who doesn't care about much of anything. But he cares a lot about certain things, like the predatory real estate investors who are building a monstrous eyesore of a McMansion right next to his quaint Key West beach house. And he also cares about being reinstated to his old job on the Miami police force. Which is why, after local cops mention to him that a fisherman reeled in an unidentified severed arm, Yancey puts the arm in an ice cooler and drives north to Miami. He hopes to get the local coroner to match the arm with any dismembered corpses there. Yancey sees that as his way back onto the Miami police force. But Rosa the coroner, played by Natalie Martinez,

is difficult to persuade, especially after examining the arm in her morgue as Yancey looks on. Did you notice his watch is missing? You see this? If someone took that, you know, that could make it a homicide. Yeah, well, my sheriff is not going to love the word homicide. How about this? Maybe the shark that mangled the poor f***er

also likes to eat watches. I mean, if someone took the watch, why would they not swipe the wedding ring, too? That looks like it's platinum. Look at you making a good point. That's not the first time. Ask around. You know what? That humorous is hacked up pretty bad. Now we're talking. You know, maybe the

guy went out fishing by himself. He's a lonely gentleman. And then he backed into the boat's propeller. That's how my grandfather died. Oh, he didn't. Yeah. He's still alive. But you know, could have happened. Yeah, maybe. It does look a little like a propeller wound. Definitely propeller-like, if not all the way, it's a propeller. You're good. Still doesn't make it my problem. You're killing me, Rosa. Please don't say what I think you're about to say. Sorry. Not my case. But Yancey continues to follow the clues wherever they lead.

And where they lead, eventually, is to the Bahamas, where he finds some greedy land developers and a voodoo priestess and a bush pilot seemingly addicted to conch fritters and so, so many more Florida characters. These ten episodes of Bad Monkey come from eight different writers and five different directors, but overseeing them all is Bill Lawrence, who created and developed the TV version. This is his third series for Apple TV+, after Ted Lasso and Shrinking, and his other credits include NBC's Scrubs.

All three of those series made room for, and even lovingly embraced, misfits and eccentrics, so Lawrence is on familiar ground here, even if the ground is a bit sandier. Zach Braff, the star of Scrubs, even shows up here for a few episodes. But like many of the characters in this TV series, I can't even describe their occupations, much less their relationships to one another, without spoiling some of the many increasingly pleasant twists and turns. But I can say this. In addition to Vince Vaughn and Natalie Martinez, other standout, playful performances here come from Saturday Night Live cast member Alex Moffat, from John Ortiz and Ronald Peet, and especially from the supporting women,

Michelle Monaghan, Meredith Hagner, and Jodie Turner-Smith, who turns in my favorite performance of all. She plays the voodoo priestess called Dragon Queen, and she steals the show. In this scene from a later episode, she frightens a pair of real estate villains without raising a hand or even her voice. I've been watching you. You've been busy bees, you two.

Busy building, busy stealing, just busy, busy, busy. You're thriving on my island because I allow it, but it can all go away with a whisper. Bad Monkey isn't a great series, but it's fun, it gets better as it goes along, and even those who already read the book will be surprised in spots, because some of the characters in this TV series meet different fates than in the book. And speaking of books, Hyacinth wrote a sequel to Bad Monkey called Razor Girl, featuring the same character of Andrew Yancey. So if viewers and Vince Vaughn have an appetite for more, there's already another source novel on the shelf.

David Bianculli is a professor of television studies at Rowan University. He reviewed the new series Bad Monkey on Apple TV+. To find out what's happening behind the scenes of our show and get our producers' recommendations for what to watch, read, and listen to, subscribe to our free newsletter at whyy.org slash freshair. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Roberta Shorrock, Anne-Marie Baldonado, Sam Brigger, Lauren Krenzel, Teresa Madden, Monique Nazareth, Susan Yakundi, and Joel Wolfram. Our digital media producers are Molly C.V. Nesper and Sabrina Seward. I'm a challenger directed today's show. For Terry Gross and Tanya Mosley, I'm Dave Davies. Who's claiming power this election? What's happening in battleground states? Antonia Mosley. I'm Dave Davies.