Fresh Air - Remembering Quincy Jones

Episode Date: November 5, 2024

We remember renowned composer, arranger and producer Quincy Jones and listen back to Terry Gross's 2001 interview with him. He died Sunday at the age of 91. He got his start playing with Ray Charles when they were both in their teens. Jones became famous as an arranger and producer for musicians including Ray Charles, Frank Sinatra, Aretha Franklin, and Michael Jackson on his albums Bad, Off the Wall and Thriller.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Support for this podcast and the following message come from Autograph Collection Hotels, with over 300 independent hotels around the world, each exactly like nothing else. Autograph Collection is part of the Marriott Bonvoy portfolio of hotel brands. Find the unforgettable at autographcollection.com. This is Fresh Air. I'm Terry Gross. Today we remember Quincy Jones. He died Sunday at

the age of 91. In his New York Times obit, music critic Ben Ratliff described Jones as one of the most powerful forces in American popular music for more than a century. Jones started his career as a trumpeter in Lionel Hampton's big band in the early 50s, but he never became a noted instrumentalist. What made him famous and wealthy was his work as an arranger, composer, and record producer, work that spans from the big bands through bebop, pop, movie soundtracks, tv themes, and hip-hop. He arranged or produced recordings for Sinatra, Ray Charles, Aretha, Dino Washington, George Benson, and Ice-T, and he produced the Michael Jackson albums

Off the Wall, Bad, and the best-selling album of all time, Thriller. His music has been sampled in many hip-hop recordings, and his 1962 recording Soul Bossanova was used as the theme to the Austin Powers films. The multimedia company Quincy Jones Entertainment produced the sitcoms The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, In the House, and the sketch show Mad TV. I spoke with him in 2001 after the release of his memoir Q and a 4 CD box set by the same name of music featuring him as a trumpeter, arranger, composer or producer. We started with a sampling of tracks from that collection. Another bride, another June, or producer. We started with a sampling of tracks from that collection. Look at me, I'm as helpless as a kitten up a tree

And I feel like I'm clinging to a cloud I can't understand I get misty just holding your hand. Walk my way. I never cared much for moonlit skies. I never winked back at fireflies, but now that the stars are in your eyes, I'm beginning to see the light. I never went in for afterglow. Fly me to the moon, let me play among the stars Let me see what spring is like on Jupiter and Mars In other words, hold my hand, in other words, baby kiss me. They told them don't you ever stop, don't you ever stop They told them don't you ever stop, don't you ever stop

They told them don't you ever stop, don't you ever stop They told them don't you ever stop, don't you ever stop They told them don't you ever come around here Don't wanna see your face, you better disappear The fires in their eyes and their words are really clear So beat it, but you wanna be fair, just be there Back, back on the block Back, back on the block Back on the block, so we can rock it with the soul rhythm blue And I'm a hip hop back on the block

Back on the block Iced tea, let me kick my credentials A young player, brand South Central LA That's a sampling of music from the 4CT box set Q that was released at the same time as his memoir Q. That was back in 2001 when I spoke with him. One of the first musicians he became good friends with was Ray Charles. They met when Charles was 16 and Jones was 14. I asked Quincy Jones how they met. I think it was at the Elks Club, Terry, where we used to, after we played two jobs, we'd work from seven to ten in the white tennis clubs and where we'd play cup music of the popular music of the day to each hisaches Own and Room Full of Roses.

And then at 10 o'clock, we'd go play the black clubs, the black and tan, the rock and share and the Washington Education and Social Club. And we'd play for strippers and we sang. Oh, really? We had choreography. We had everything. We, as kids, we were pretty cocky because we had a great band. We could read music very well.

And we did everything. It was a show band, too. So we got most of the jobs that came around. It was nice. We played with Billie Holiday when we were in 48, behind her. And then in 49, we played with Billy Eckstein and Cab Calloway and all the bands that came through. So we were pretty confident in those days.

And the band just kept getting tighter because we rehearsed a lot. You said that you admired Ray Charles' independence. He was 16 years old. He was blind, but he had his own apartment. He got around town himself. He had a girlfriend. I mean, he had a lot of things that you wanted Yes, he did

He had his own apartment too in two suits It's amazing and but what what what I guess would impress me the most with Ray is that he was so Independent and his sightlessness did not hinder him at all It's one of the one of the treasured, cherished friendships that I really have because as kids we used to talk about everything. He'd show me how to write music in Braille, Disney, Gillespie songs like MNN and bebop, etc. And we used to dream about the future. Like, wouldn't it be great to work with a symphony orchestra? One day we're going to do that. One day we're going to have three girlfriends each, you know.

One day we're going to do movies together. We're going to do all of that stuff. And we did it. That's what's amazing. We did, you know, In the Heat of the Night together. And we did We're the World, all of those things. Everything, the girls. So it's amazing to dream and have your dreams executed like that. Well I thought I'd play a 1959 recording that you

arranged for Ray Charles and this is from the Genius of Ray Charles album which was recorded in 1959. We're gonna hear Let the Good Times Roll. Would you like to say anything about this track? I would just like to add that we had half of Count Basie's band on that session and half of Duke Ellington's band on that session. And in those days, that's when I first started to work with Phil Ramone, the engineer, who's now a producer. And I met Erdogan, next year we had Erdogan and Jerry Wexler came by because in those

days what you heard was what you got. It wasn't about fixing in the mix. There was nothing to mix. This is Ray Charles, arrangement by Quincy Jones, Let's have some fun You only live but once and when you're dead you're done So let the good time roll out I said let the good time roll out I don't care if you're young or old You you ought to get together and let the good times roll out. Don't sit there mumbling, talking trash. If you want to have a ball, you got to go out and spend some cash and let the good times roll out.

I'm talking about the good times. Well, it makes no difference whether you're young or old. All you got to do is get together and let the good times roll. Your first important music job was with the Lionel Hampton big band. You got that job while you were still in high school. How did he hire you when you were still in school? I had written a suite that I'd been working on for a long time called From the Four Winds. And it was almost a descriptive piece. And I didn't understand theory too well then but I just went ahead straight it didn't stop me from writing I didn't understand key signatures or anything you know would say silly things on the top of the trumpet part like a note when you play B naturals make the B naturals a half step lower because they sound funny if they're B naturals and some guy said idiot just put a flat on the third line and it's a key signature.

And so I didn't, because it didn't bother me that I didn't understand that because I knew eventually I'd learn it. And so I gave this arrangement to, submitted this to Lionel Hampton and he said, you wrote this, huh? I said, yeah, you play trumpet too? He said, yeah, well, he said, how'd you like to join my band, please? Are you kidding? And so they had little brown leather bags for your trumpet in.

I had that and just very few tarlid articles and so forth. And I went and sat on that bus so nobody would change their mind and I wouldn't have to ask the people at home whether I could go or not. And sure enough, everybody got on one by one. Hamp said hi and I felt secure. And Gladys Thompson got on the bus and, Hamp said hi and I felt secure. And Gladys Tampson got on the bus and said, uh-uh, what is that child doing on this bus? And she said, no, son, you get off the bus. And so we'll try to talk later, but you go to school. And I was destroyed.

And so I got a scholarship to Boston to the Berklee College of Music and I got the call a friend named Janet Turlow was singing with the band and she reminded them and they called said we'd like you to be with the band I was 18 then and I was ready I was told the school I'd be back but and I guess down inside you know when you go with the band like that you know never go back. Now you said that you were afraid that when you were playing with Hampton that Parker or Thelonious Monk might show up in the audience and you were worried they'd laugh at what you had to wear in the band.

What did you have to wear in the Hampton band? Well, that incident happened when we were playing at a place on Broadway called Right Next Door to Birdland. I mean, totally adjacent. And both places were downstairs. And we had to wear Tyrolean hats, purple Shaw-Carlott coats, and Bermuda shorts. Bermuda shorts? Why?

Oh my God, the whole band. Why did you have to wear shorts? I don't know, that's just Hamp's idea. And it was like a rock and roll band. And he was the first rock and roll band because he attacked an audience like a rock and roll band. No prisoners, he knew how to get them too. Well some of the tenor solos are almost like a rock and roll band too. Yeah, yes and they'd walk and the theaters they'd walk they had thin-soled shoes and walk over the the audience's heads with these thin-soled shoes on

top of their chairs you know it was absolutely incredible. He had this sense of show business, but he had a lot of music in the band because, you know, they had people like Wes Montgomery and Charlie Mingus and Fatshah Navarro, some Clifford Brown, amazing musicians in the band, and I loved Hampton for having that ambidexterity because he liked great music, but he also liked to level his audience and take no prisoners until they were wrung out he was not satisfied. So did did any of your Bebop friends end up seeing you in that band that night? Well that particular night he had this favorite thing he'd like to do he'd have everybody he'd get his drumsticks and

start a whole line almost like a conga line the saxophone section would follow him around the audience he'd go around and beat the drumsticks on everybody's table, the trumpets and trombones were right behind him, playing flying home. Then he'd go upstairs, I said, oh my god, Clifford Brown and I said, if he goes upstairs, we may run into Charlie Parker and Bud Powell and all of Mingus and all these great musicians. And we went upstairs and he's playing his drumsticks all over the awnings and the guys are saying what is going on here he'd even go so far as to get in a taxi cab with the saxophone section and go to another club maybe three blocks away and play with the saxophone section of band back at the meanwhile back at the ranch we're still playing so it was it was quite an

experience he had no shame and he was a great musician. One of the great times of my life. So, but did Parker see you in your Bermuda shorts? Oh, yes. But on top of that, Parker would come next door. Bird would come next door. He loved to read music and he was starring next door, like the 52nd Street All-Stars, the bebop All-Stars, the bebop

All-Stars and they were looking for him next door, it's time for him to play a set and he's sitting over there in our band playing second tenor because he loved to read music and he's sitting for an hour while people are next door waiting to hear him as this genius of the 20th century and he's over there playing second tenor parts to practice his reading because all the musicians read music back then. So playing with the Hampton band did you get an appreciation of the value of like show business in music or did you come to hate it and want something that threw that out the window kind of like Parker threw show business values? You know? No, no, no, no, because we were we were weaned and I mean trained in Seattle.

That's the way we had to do in Seattle to we had to play shot issues. We had to play rhythm and blues. We had to play stripper music. We played the comedy. I mean the problem playing myself had a comedy team called Dexadrine and Benzadrine, Major Pickford. We used to do, we used to steal all of the comedy lines from the older guys and we'd imitate and wear hats and wine bottles in our pockets and so forth. It was insane. But no, not at all. We were used to that. We were used to that. He'd have gloves for the whole trumpet section. It was shining in the dark and you do kind of hand choreography and so forth.

And people can forget, you know, that those bands back there were basically to dance bands to just make people want to feel good dancing. And coincidentally, great innovation crawled through that platform, like Charlie Parker and the Billy Eckstein band and people in Miles Davis and so forth. Dizzy Gillespie from Cab Calloway. But these monsters, major, major musicians, happened to be in bands who were basically there for people to have a good time and dance and it was about entertainment. And it was ironic because the underlying attitude

with all of the bebop musicians is that we have heard Stravinsky now, we've done this, and we want to be pure artists. We don't want to entertain anymore. We don't want to sing. We don't want to have to dance and move or entertain an audience. Well, you know, one of the things you say about the Lionel Hampton band bus, and this might have something to do with why Gladys Hampton wanted you off the bus, was that there were four different sections of guys on the bus.

Why don't you describe how that broke down? Well, they had upfront with the Holy Rollers, I guess, and then they had the drinkers, and then they had the guys that indulged in sweet wheat and giggle grass and they had the guys that were the hardcore you know like mainliners really. Which section did you sit in? The sweet wheat. We were very young then and now I was 18 when I went with that band and you bounce back between that or trying to figure out how to make that work with Logan David Wyon or Manna Shevitz. It's ridiculous. Well, the first recording that you made was with the Lionel Hampton Band. This was in 1952. It's also your first recorded composition and first recorded arrangement. It's called

Kingfish. Why don't you say something about what you think of this musically now? I look at the whole book and the whole life, I guess, as if it's like somebody else. I don't know where I had the spirit or the stick-to-it-iveness to write something like that then. Because, you know, number one, I I wanted I knew that music was my ticket out of this other life that I had you know the thug life and dysfunctional family life and it was it was like wonderland to arrange and the idea of orchestration and arrangements and composition and that that to this day is what my core skill is

as an arranger and orchestrator and composer. I was just so happy to have a surrounding, an environment where that was encouraged all the time. Okay, so here it is, 1952, Quincy Jones with the Lionel Hampton band Kingfish. The From the early 1950s, that was Quincy Jones's first recording with the Lionel Hampton Orchestra. It's called King Fish. Terry, by the way, I think that's the first recorded solo I ever had on record. The first record I was ever involved with and I think it's one of the only solos I

have on record. Why didn't you solo more often? I don't know. I was getting more and more pulled into the quicksand of writing. And then about a year or so later after we begged Hampt to get Gigi Grice, Benny Golson, and Clifford Brown in the band, sitting next to Art Farmer and Clifford Brown and Benny Bailey, helped me get into writing quickly. Because Clifford Brown was probably one of the greatest trumpet players that ever lived. Unbelievable.

We're listening to my 2001 interview with Quincy Jones. He died Sunday at the age of 91. We'll hear more of the interview after a break. I'm Terry Gross and this is Fresh Air. Thanks, ladies and gentlemen. This is Lionel Hampton speaking and welcome to our bandstand here. And this tune we are playing now is called Broadway. It's about police. Hi, this is Molly Seabee Nusberg, digital producer at Fresh Air.

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This is Fresh Air. I'm Terry Gross. We're remembering composer, arranger, and producer Quincy Jones. He died Sunday at the age of 91. His work spanned from the big bands through bebop, pop, movie soundtracks, TV themes, and hip hop. He arranged or produced recordings for Sinatra, Ray Charles, Aretha, Dinah Washington, and Ice-T, and he produced the Michael Jackson albums Off the Wall, Bad, and Thriller.

His music has been sampled in many hip hop recordings, and his 1962 recording, Soul Bossanova, was used as the theme for the Austin Powers films. His multimedia company produced the TV shows, the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, In the House and Mad TV. Now I gotta move to a 1962 recording this is the soul bossa nova which became the theme for Austin Powers which just goes to show how this epitomizes a certain 60s sound. What was the occasion for writing this originally? We had just come back from two State Department tours with Dizzy Gillespie.

The first was in the Middle East, place of Pakistan, right there in the West Bank, Iran and Syria, Beirut. And we came back to the White House Correspondences Ball in Washington. They liked what we had done, and so they sent us out to South America after that. And naturally, it was a black man who's going to play all these kamikaze places. They'd have the Cypriots stoning the embassy in Athens, and they'd rush us over from Ankara, Turkey, get in there quick, you know, almost like ground troops, and send a black man over there.

And so the same students that stoned the embassy were all down front in the front row and everything else. It was pretty scary really, because we didn't know what their conflict was all about really. And after the concert, the same students started crawling over the top of the stage and like straight towards the band. I said, this is it now. Big trouble. The same ones who were stoning the embassy.

And they grabbed Dizzy. We had no idea what was on their mind. And they put him on their shoulders and they were walking around saying, Dizzy, Dizzy, Dizzy. I was so relieved, you know, because it was terrifying to watch them come towards the band, especially with the reputation they had in the papers the day before. And so we went down to getting back to Latin America. We went down to Argentina first, Buenos Aires. And after our first concert, we met a beautiful young musician named Lalo

Schiffrin. He was a teenager then too. And he had told me all about, he'd studied with Olivia Messiaen and that's where I first heard the name Nadia Boulanger and it just sent electricity through me. He also told, we also recorded down there with Ossipia Zola, who was like a very experimental composer working on what they call a modern city tango. And then he warned us about the new movement that was coming out of Brazil. We were very excited about hearing this new music. It was Basel Nova.

And when we got to Brazil, Dizzy played with a rhythm section, somber rhythm section at the Gloria Hotel one afternoon and sitting in the front row with three teenagers, a married couple Astrid and Joel Gilberto and Antonio Carlos Jobim who started a whole Basonova movement and ironically the first record that came out in the United States was Dez Finado and the melody on the first just the first opening strain was just almost pure Dizzy Gillespie that's why they referred to it at that time as jazz and samba before they even called it bossa nova and

so we came home all excited about this new music. They had moved the clavi beat, which is really like the foundation of Latin music straight up and down Latin America. That's the foundation of clavi beat, the guiding force. And I wanted to record some of this stuff. And so I made a thing called Big Band Bassanova and I wrote into about 20 minutes, this was 1962, a tune called Soul Bassanova. And we had Brazilian rhythm section and everything else and I guess 38 years passed. And so now Austin Powers is this huge star and he's stuck with this thing for this is his

theme forever. Da da da da da da da da da da. It's amazing because they did two movies with the theme and he opened it with a marching band playing on the first the first time. Now he wants me to be in the next film. So were you flattered when when you found out that Mike Myers wanted to use your soul bossa nova as the theme For Austin Powers, or did you think oh, oh now it's gonna be camp now. It's gonna be seen as camp It was camp, but you know it doesn't matter though because you know your it's a tune like that was was a kind of a campy tune Anyway, so I loved it. know, I was very happy that he found a whole new home for this, you know, in this generation.

Well let's hear your 1962 recording of Sol Basanova, which later became the theme for Austin Powers. Shagadelic. Behave. He is so funny. I'm gonna go get some food. The That's Quincy Jones' 1962 recording of his composition, Sol Basanova, also known now as the theme for Austin Powers. Other music you were doing in the 1960s, you also had a pop music career. One of your biggest successes was Leslie Gore. You produced her first big hit, It's My Party, and produced other records of hers as well. Tell us how you discovered Leslie Gore. Well, I got kind of,

it was sort of a challenge really because I was, I had come back from Europe and I had lost a lot of money and I had to take Irving Green, the president of Mercury said come over here as an A&R man because you are an artist on Mercury anyway, an artist and develop repertoire. He hired me and then he promoted me to vice president. And during that time I was recording all the Divas and you know Nina Simone and Sarah Vaughan and Charlie Horn, Donny Washington and we were doing things with Robert Farn, big string expensive dates and so forth. And they were beautiful musical albums but Erving said to me one time he says you know all the

pop guys are saying you and Hal Mooney who the arrangers are budget busters because you do all this big music but we need some more help with the bottom line with hit records and I was a little presumptuous and said well I don't think it's such a big deal to make a pop hit. And he says, well, why don't you start making something then? And we were at a meeting at the Oxford House where we had our A&R meetings regularly in Chicago. And he said, here's a tape that Joe Glazer sent me

and his friend, the fight manager, somebody has a niece that sang something. Just say you listen to it and we'll send it back. I grabbed it and I said said I'd like to try this because she had a beautiful great sound as a far of a rock singer in those days she could sing really in tune she was 16 years old and we went back to New York and talked to Joe Glazer he said make her a star and you know all of that Hollywood stuff. We went in on a Saturday and recorded two songs, It's My Party, and with a B-side written

by Paul Anka, young Paul Anka called Danny. On the way to Carnegie Hall, I saw Phil Spector. Phil Spector said, I just got a smash man with the crystals. Call this my party. I said, what? I'd never experienced that kind of competition before. Went back to the studio with the engineer, and we mastered 100 acetates that sent out to radio.

And the rest, you know, I had to go to Japan right after that. And I told Leslie, we've got the great record and everything, all we need to do is fix that name because I don't think this name is going to work with a pop record. You didn't like the name Gore? No, I didn't like it. I won't tell Al Gore about that. And so I went to Japan to do a television show and we did a little acting and scoring

it. to do a television show and we're doing a little acting and scoring it and so I got a call from Irving Green later and he said did anybody call you yet? I said no I said did she get that name together yet? Did she come up with any suggestions? She said the record's number one do you really care? I said no. I was just fine it's amazing. It was a big lesson. Whatever happened to the Crystal's recording of It's My Party that Phil Spector was I don't think I don't think it came out I don't think it came out Leslie's thing was had such impact. I don't know I may be wrong, but I don't think it came out. Well, I thought I'd play you don't own me

That's the Leslie Gore track that's featured on your 4cd box set I also think it's just a particularly good recording and also a kind of proto-feminist anthem. And a long time ago too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. With a lot of strings, though, you're talking about how you were using strings with jazz singers you were working with. I know this is Klaus Ogerman's arrangement and not yours, but still it's a very string-oriented arrangement. He's an amazing musician. Okay, well this is You Don't Own Me, produced by my guest Quincy Jones, sung by Leslie Gore. I'm not just one of your many toys You don't own me Don't say I can't go with other boys

And don't tell me what to do Don't tell me what to say And please, when I go out with you Don't put me on display, cause You don't own me Don't try to change me in any way You don't own me Don't tie me down, cos I'd never stay

I don't tell you what to say I don't tell you what to do So just let me be myself That's all I ask of you I'm young and I love to be young. I'm free and I love to be free. To live my life the way I want. To say and do whatever I please.

That's Leslie Gore, a recording produced by Quincy Jones in 1963. We're remembering Quincy Jones on today's show. He died Sunday at the age of 91. We'll hear more of my 2001 interview with him after a short break. This is Fresh Air. On the Embedded Podcast, every Marine takes an oath to protect the Constitution. Against all enemies, foreign and domestic. This is the story of a Marine in the Capitol on January 6.

Did he break his oath? And what does that mean for all of us? Listen to A Good Guy on the embedded podcast from NPR. Both episodes available now. If you need a moment to catch your breath and calm your nerves, listen to the latest all songs considered from NPR Music. available now. This is Fresh Air. We're remembering Quincy Jones. He died Sunday. Let's get back to the interview we recorded in 2001. Let's talk about your childhood. Your early years were spent on the South Side of Chicago. Your father was a carpenter, and you say that he worked for the guys who ran the rackets in the South Side side how did he end up being their carpenter

well you know that was the time that Chicago during the Depression in the ghetto nobody asked any questions you know in Chicago also was a sporting ground of every probably the headquarters headquarters spotting ground of every gangster in America black or white Roger Tull, Dillinger, Capone everybody so the Jones boys were just they were the first one of the first black gangsters they started a policy racket and they they also had a five and dime store chain the Jones five and dime which they used to call the the V's and X's so something to make a trip over to the V's and X's today.

So, these are the Jones boys your father worked for. This isn't the Quincy Jones family you're talking about. No, no, no, no, no. They were the gangsters back in the day. Your mother was a Christian scientist. Did she bring you up in your early years as a Christian scientist? I think so, if I can remember. She went to Boston University probably in the 20s, which was very unusual, you know, for African American females in those days. And she, very smart lady, she spoke and wrote like 12 languages, including Hebrew, everything. And she's typed a hundred words a minute.

So she was kind of the administrator, superintendent of one of the places we lived in, like the Rosenwald, before we got into a house. Your mother was later diagnosed as schizophrenic, and she was institutionalized for a while. What were some of her problems at home before she was actually diagnosed? Problems that you found disturbing? Well, it's dementia praecox, which is schizophrenia. She was obsessed with religion. She would stare out of the window and she would sing spirituals, she'd play spirituals,

and was just erratic at times. And I remember when I was about five years old, my birthday party, she threw my coconut cake out the back porch. And it was really a big deal to me then. I don't know why I remember that so much, but it was really something I couldn't understand because the cake was supposed to be like the symbol or the metaphor for the joy of the birthday party and she threw it out and it just really shocked me and it was a very traumatic moment and I know it sounds like it's nothing. No, it doesn't sound like it's nothing.

At five years old, it freaked me out. And I realized, my brother and I both realized something was wrong. I mean, every day we realized something was wrong because it was just, it just wasn't like other people's parents. Even the bad parents, it wasn't the same as that. It was because she was very smart. And so finally she was committed and I didn't know or kind of blanked out what the process was until I went back there like 50 years later when I did Listen Up. All of it came back and I guess that's the part of the book that was cathartic. There were missing pieces in my memory and it got clarified.

After she was committed, she escaped from the hospital three times, and then when she was released from the hospital, you say she followed you around from town to town for the rest of your life, and sometimes showing up at the oddest times. Apparently, I guess you needed more distance from her than she wanted. Oh, absolutely. Well, we had a very hard time communicating. We couldn't have a conversation without it being turning into a big argument. I didn't know... I guess Lloyd and I both were so hungry for... Lloyd's your brother.

Lloyd's my brother. He's my younger brother. We were so hungry for the mother stuff and just to be pattern on the back ahead of something that we uh... we just never could communicate with no connect uh... you know at that time i guess you need uh... validation and guidance and love and nurturing and those words that weren't around

in the ghetto and during the Depression. Nurturing never came up very often. Right. It's like cholesterol. Please, cholesterol sounds like something to drink, you know. Well, one of the strangest places your mother showed up, one of the most surprising times was at Birdland when you were performing. Tell us what happened. Oh my God. I couldn't believe it. That was the first time I ever played Birdland with you were performing. Tell us what happened. Oh my god, I couldn't believe it. Now, the first time I ever played Birdland with my own band, I was really proud because I'd seen all

my idols there, Charlie Parker and Dizzy Duke, Basie, everybody, and lo and behold, here come, I see her at the, you know, it's a huge entrance there with the, that comes downstairs, and the regular host there was named Pee Wee Marquette who was really a character he had four watches on and about three coats of powder on his face and a couple of jackets on and a vest and everything else a real character with a lot of attitude and you'd see like parting of the crowd you know as he's walking through because he was so short and he walked through and then she said no come lady, you know you can't come in. She said, shut up, you know, if you didn't drink so much,

you wouldn't be so short. And she had a tongue like a laser beam. She turned the place out for about an hour. You knew she was down there. And she took nothing from anybody. No, I was reading the obituary for your mother. She died in 1999 at the age of 94. And one of the things that mentioned about her was that she was a master typist and that

she once typed the New Testament as a gift to her children. Yes, she did. Do you remember getting that as a gift? Absolutely. And I said to her, I said, this is, I'm very touched, you know, but you can buy this for like $3 or $4, and she meant it as something that she was really trying to give. And more and more Lorde started to realize, you know, that the things that she did, she

couldn't help it. In the final analysis, she probably went through more hell than anybody, all of us combined, because having kids, I know how that must have felt, regardless of how difficult she made it for herself and for us. We didn't know how to be children. She didn't know how to be a mother. And it was very painful. We're listening to my 2001 interview with Quincy Jones. We'll hear more of it after a break. This is Fresh Air. interview with Quincy Jones. We'll hear more of it after a break. This is Fresh Air. You care about what's happening in the world. Let State of the World from NPR keep you informed. Each day we transport you to a different point on the globe and introduce you to the people

living world events. We don't just tell you world news, we take you there. And you can make this journey while you're doing the dishes or driving your car. State of the World podcast from NPR. Vital international stories every day. You care about what's happening in the world. Let State of the World from NPR keep you informed. Each day we transport you to a different point on the globe and introduce you to the people living world events. We don't just tell you world news, we take you there. And you can make this journey while you're doing the dishes or driving your car. State of the World podcast from NPR, vital international stories every day. This is Fresh Air. We're remembering composer, arranger and producer Quincy Jones. He died Sunday at the age of 91. Here's the final part of my interview with him,

which we recorded in 2001. I want to get back to your music and to get to the most colossal success that you had, and that was the album Thriller with Michael Jackson. You first met him in 1972 at Sammy Davis' house. You worked together on The Wiz. What was his or yours or you know the both of yours original concept for thriller? Well, it starts before that it starts during the movie, you know of when we first met

After I did initially at 12 years old it was she was about 19 It's about 77 or so and he came over to the house That's the first time we really met on a professional basis He was growing up then and he said pleased to meet you etc. And it was very sweet and said I'm doing a we Have a new contract with epic records and Jackson the Jackson five I'm still working with them But I'm gonna do a solo album and I was wondering if you could help me find a producer It's a great Michael, but right now we've got a mammoth job here to pre-record all the

songs with you and Nipsey Russell and Richie Pryne and Lena Horne and Diana Ross and everybody else to pre-record the songs before you make a film. That's just the nature of what films are about. You pre-record the voice, everything, and you have to really guess right about the dramatic context of how a song starts and stops, how long it is, because it's all going to be film, and that's what the film's going to be. It's a slave to that track, so you really have to concentrate. And so I said, if you be patient and just wait until we get through this, maybe we can talk about the producer. So we finished the pre-records. we start getting ready, preparing for the film.

Sidney Lumet is at the St. George Hotel in Brooklyn one day, and he's blocking out a scene with the four principals. And Mike was the scarecrow, and he had pulled out of his straw chest, he'd pull out little quotes from yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda Confuses, yadda yadda yadda yadda, Aristotle, yadda yadda yadda, Socrates. And he kept saying Socrates. And about the third day I just took him aside and said, Michael, the word is Socrates. And he said, really? And he was really surprised, you know, because he's been a star since he's five, you know, so he's been on the road since then. So he's like an old man in one sense, like a baby in another

sense. And there was something about the look in his eye, and I'd been watching him, the discipline he had. He'd get up at five in the morning for his makeup test and everything else very very Conscientious and disciplined young person. I mean one of the most I've ever seen he knew everybody's lines everybody's song Everybody's lyrics everybody's dance steps everybody movement everything and the most amazing and absorbing and involved for person I'd ever artists that I've ever seen before and I love the records they made on Motown you know the bubblegum things you know dance machine those things but after seeing this other side of him I

felt that there was much more inside of Michael it hadn't been touched because you look at Michael at first you say there's nothing else to do with him he's done everything and he did it at nine you know he's singing love song to a rat you know then and everything he and it was fearless and sincere about it he had he had a very strong sense of maturity what was your approach to producing Thriller what what do you think of as your major contributions to the sound of that record? Thriller was a combination of all my experience as an orchestrator and picking the songs and Michael's all the talents he has as a

dancer, as a singer, as an amazing entertainer. It was like us throwing everything we accumulated experience putting it all together. Well, let's hear Billie Jean. I really regret we're out of time. I wish we could talk some more. I want to thank you so much for talking with us. It's a pleasure, Terry. My interview with Quincy Jones was recorded in 2001. He died Sunday at the age of 91. Tomorrow on Fresh Air, our guest will be be Oscar nominee Saoirse Ronan. She has two new films in theaters, The Out Run about a young alcoholic trying to get sober and Blitz about a mother in London during the World War II German bombardment trying to find her lost son. Her other films include Little Women,

Lady Bird, Brooklyn and Atonement. I hope you'll join us. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Roberta Shorrock directs the show. Our co-host is Tanya Mosley. I'm Terri Gross. You mean I am the one Who would dance on the floor in the round She said I am the one Who would dance on the floor in the round She told me her name was Billie Jean

And she caused a soon Then her heavy hair turned with the ice To dream of being the one With Billie Jean as she calls to sing Then her heavy hair turned with the ice to scream With being the one Who would dance on the floor, get around People always told me, be careful what you do Don't go around breaking young girls' hearts And my mother always told me, be careful who you love Be careful what you do NPR brings you the updates you need on the day's biggest headlines.

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