Fresh Air - Richard Kind Is Glad He’s Not Super Famous

Episode Date: December 31, 2025

Kind is the announcer and host sidekick on the Netflix show ‘Everybody's Live with John Mulaney.’ "I don't know what the hell I'm doing. You must understand — it's anarchy," he says of the show. He spoke with Terry Gross about having ego but no confidence, working with Sondheim, and working in his father's jewelry store as a teen.Jazz historian Kevin Whitehead has as remembrance of musicians we lost this year. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

This is fresh air. I'm Terry Gross. Happy New Year's Eve. Today we continue our retrospective featuring some of our favorite interviews from 2025. Though he's not often cast in leading roles, you'd likely recognize Richard Kind and his distinctive voice from his appearances in hundreds of movies and TV shows. Last month, he was celebrated at the New York Comedy Festival Benefit, appropriately titled Richard Kind Everywhere All at Once. In the series only murders in the building, He was the neighbor Vince Fish, a.k.a. Stinkye Joe, with the highly contagious case of pink eye. He played Larry David's cousin in Curb Your Enthusiasm, co-starred and Mad About You, was in the Michael J. Fox show Spin City, and earlier in his career was a cast member of the Carol Burnett Show,

Carolyn Company. In the Cohn Brothers film, a serious man, he was the deeply troubled brother. His youthful ambition was to be in a Stephen Sondheim musical. He's been in two. He started in a production, of a funny thing happened on the way to the forum at the Stephen Sondheim Center for the Performing Arts, and in the musical bounce, he originated the role of Addison Meisner and got to work with Sondheim. I interviewed Richard Kind in April. We began our conversation talking about his current role at the time on the Netflix series Everybody's Live with John Malaney. Kind was the announcer on the show and also Malaney's sidekick. Let's start with a clip from an episode of Everybody's Live. John Malaney explains that,

Kind got hit on the head with a kiss album, which left him with a traumatic brain injury, and now, Kine thinks he is Gene Simmons. He's dressed like Simmons, has hair like Simmons, and talks like him, too. After he says something vulgar to Malaney, Malini starts to apologize to the audience. Okay, so normally I'd apologize for such a crack comment. Gentlemen, I crave ideas, and when an idea hits me, it grips me, and it tortures me, Until I mastered. Listen, Gene, I know you think you're Gene Simmons man,

but Richard, if you're in there somewhere, please, just give me a sign. I didn't expect you to greet me with open arms, but I did expect open legs. All right. Richard Kind, welcome to fresh hair. I have to ask you, Because this question is as much about me as it is about you. So when I interviewed Gene Simmons many years ago, he said to me, if you want to welcome me with open arms, you'll also have to welcome me with open legs.

I don't know anything about Gene Simmons. My reference about Gene Simmons is Kiss, seeing him with makeup, and then John sent me the very contentious interview you had with him. So I said, oh, that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to be that contentious, very, very, I don't want to say stoic, but he was, not even somber, but he was still. And he just talks these awful things. He was awful to you. It was terrible. I got a lot of mileage out of that, though.

Did you? Okay, well, a lot of times. Oh, good, good. Insulting me was actually doing me a favor. Oh, evidently. Don't expect it for me. I'm not that guy. Okay. Okay. You're an actor and you've been in so many things, but you're not a big celebrity. Like, everybody's seen you in at least one thing. So many people know who you are, but you're not famous in the way that your good friend, George Clooney, is famous. And you've said you like it that way. I didn't know I would like it that way because my brain, much less my career has gone through different permutations over the years. When I was a kid, you know, a kid lies in bed and dreams of being center fielder for the Yankees or, you know, being an astronaut,

being a rock star. I wanted to be a movie star. I wanted to be up and be, you know, on the big screen. The funny thing is, when I was angry at my parents, I wasn't going to write them a note that I'm running away. I was going to make a film and show it in the theater. That's how I was going to tell them I'm running. a film about them? Yeah, and go, I'll show you. I'm going to go make it big, and you'll see, you'll see, you'll be sorry

that you didn't let me go see that movie. And that's what I thought about. So, you know, it was on, that's what it was. And I had a dream, my grandparents used to take me to Broadway, because they lived in New York. We lived near, we lived in Pennsylvania, in Bucks County, and so I would come, where I was from,

my joke is you either went to the spectrum to see the Rolling Stones, or you went to Madison, Garden. I went to Madison Square Garden. All my friends went to the spectrum and still live in Philly. I went to New York because that's what I knew. My grandparents showed me the city. And I wanted to be Zero Mustel. Zero Mustel and Robert Preston. That's who I wanted to be. Oh, well, you got to be zero mustel. You've been in his role in two shows and a funny thing happened on the way to the forum and the producers. Listen, your intro was really good because you pointed out things I'm very

proud of. Okay. A lot of people just look at the IMDB page and, you know, like, and give some little credit of a movie that I don't even remember doing. But I liked what you mentioned. You know, the thing is, when you look me up, you see a lot of the movies and TV shows. But like, I did an opera at New York City Opera. But I want to get back to the fact that you're not a George Clooney level celebrity. Right. But everybody seems to know you. You know a lot of celebrities.

And you've seen things that you're grateful you don't have to go through. So what are some of the things that you've seen celebrity friends go through that you're grateful you don't have to deal with? All right. I'll tell you a story. I knew Matt Perry when he was a kid. And we would go out breaking. Because Matthew Perry from Friends.

Right. And, yeah, yeah, yes, that Matt Perry. And we used to, you know, as a young kid, he would go to the Formosa, all of our friends, we would drink. If he could sit at a typewriter and type everything he wanted in his life, from a dog to what the house would look like, to what kind of car, to what his girlfriend would look like, everything came true. And I saw that it doesn't bring happiness, and I thought it would. So anyway, I went to Vegas with Matt around two or three weeks after Friends premiered. It was September, October. He started at one side of the casino and went through and was looking both ways to see if he was recognized.

And he just walked through the casino. The following January, we did the same thing. He took two steps into the casino and that's as far as he went. And that was one of the saddest things. It's what everybody dreams of, and they don't realize that they're dreaming of prison. And it's prison. He doesn't have a life. I get to walk down the streets of New York and get to where I'm going.

I will walk down the street and somebody will say, Mr. Kind, you've changed my, you're wonderful, you're a treasure. Oh, my gosh, you're the best. We love you. And my whole family loves you. And that's one person. and I pass 250 people who don't know who I am. So it's wonderful to get the accolades, and it's humbling to just keep walking.

I like to keep walking now. When I was a kid, I wanted to be stopped by everybody. Now I have a life. I want to play a clip from the series Girls 5Eva about a girl group that reunites. You really did your work. Yeah, that's a good one. And this clip seems almost like a self-parody. So the girl group that Dawn, the Sarah Borrella's character, is in,

has a show at Radio City Musical. But they're having trouble selling tickets. So she's running around the streets of Manhattan, looking for a famous person for the show who could help. And she sees a film or a TV show is being shot and notices you at the craft's table. Here's the clip. Oh, oh, wait, wait.

You're somebody, right? What do I know you from? Everything. I got an IMDB page longer than a wizard's beard. You're Richard kind! Oh, you're Bing Bong! Hey, what are you doing tomorrow? Why? My Girl Group books Radio City because we're making our big comeback, and we haven't sold any tickets because of a variety of reasons. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You've got a list of problems longer than a wizard's beard.

I said that already. What else is long? CBS receipt? CBS receipt. That's funny. Pretend I said that. Can you do something at our show? I can really use someone who could move the needle. No, no, no, no, no, no, I'm not a needle mover. And that's by design. I've spent the past 40 years striking the perfect balance between constantly working and never getting bugged in a deli.

And another thing. Why would you say, and another thing, and then take a big bite? I mistimed it. You overshot. Never chased the big time. The big time is bad news. That's when the fighting starts. People get desperate.

Friends turn on each other. What you want is the meat. medium time. Never above number five on the call sheet of life. That's happiness. Look at me. I work every day of my life, doing what I love. Well, not today. Today I had a doctor's appointment. I'm fine. And then I walk by here. I see the spread. I put some tissue in my collar. And I pretend like I'm working here. What is this anyway? Euphoria. Did I guess on this show? Eh, it doesn't matter. The important thing is, I don't have time for this. Zendaya, Maude Apatow! Oh my gosh. That conversation was longer than a CBS receipt. That's funny. I just made that up.

That's a great scene. I love that scene. It's a great scene. Was that supposed to be a parody of you? Sure. And it was. And it's hilarious and I'm mortified. You know.

Yeah. But it's hilarious. It is a parody. I say yes to a lot of things. I'm in so many things. You know, go back to the question you asked because you addressed George, who is my dear friend. And remember, I came up in the business with him. And my joke was, is that at the time that

we worked together, I was the handsome one. And then our careers went a different way. So he can't go out like I can go out. He can't even go to a bar. the way that I can go to a bar. He's going to get, he's going to get bothered. You get tired of that. And you realize, dare I say it, you don't deserve it. You're a little bit of a fraud. Is that how you feel that you're a little bit of a fraud?

Oh, every day I feel like a fraud. Every single day. I'm waiting for the world to say, I'm not that talented. I don't have that. I'm not that good. Every day I wake up like that, every day. But a flip side of that, a friend of mine said, I may not always be great anymore, but I think I'm good enough to never stink.

You know what I mean? I'm not going to be bad. I'll be fine. There are parts that I hope I'm great in. And I always yearn not just to be great, but to be better than everybody else in a scene. I want to be great. But if you're playing tennis with a better tennis player, it's just not going to happen. So there are sometimes when I say, you know what, you're not going to win an Academy Award for this role.

Just do it correctly. Don't try and stand out. Don't try and steal. Just do it. Just do the part. And that's a very different way to come to set. I want to talk with you about working with Stephen Sondheim and being, like, originating a role. Originating a Steven Sondheim role.

Wow. Unfortunately, it was a show that never quite caught on and went through several iterations and even several titles. So you were in Bounce as Edison Meisner, one of two brothers who was it Bocca Raton that they helped build? You originated a role. And before we talk about what it was like to work with Sondheim, on a Sondheim musical, I want to play a song from it. and it's called Get Out of My Life. And I chose this because it's a good song and you're really great in it. This song is like part singing and part, like, really acting. Thank you.

Because you're angry with this. And it really shows you off. There's a song by Stephen Sondheim from his musical balance with my guest, Richard Kind. Addie, I just want you to know that I appreciate... Get out of my life! Get the hell out of my life! Whatever this race square.

We're in okay you win. It's done! And now that you've won, get out of my life! It used to be fun to watch you scheme, and even be a part of it, at the start of it, it got to be fun to stand and beam at the suckers,

but I learned that from you. I thought that we'd go from scheme to dream, but then I thought we were a team, Amen, no more I've looked at the score You owe me a life A life of my own I wanted to glide like you

Before I do Please leave me alone Get out of my life So I can live it Just go away And what if I do That was my guest Richard Kind singing Get Out of My Life from the original cast recording of the Stephen Sondheim musical

bounce. So you worked directly with Sondheim on this, right? I did, yeah. What kind of direction did he give you about how to do his songs? He's a guy who always liked actors better than singers, but he loved when he heard his song sung beautifully. But during a show, he wanted it, acted better. he loved actors he would always check in are you having fun does this sound good he wrote for the actor and yet was so specific if i put a the instead of an ann in the lyric he would correct me hanging on my wall in my house one of my most treasure thing is just typed out lyrics you know maybe three four lines in the song and he would then cross it out and put it in pencil because he famously wrote in pencil the changes. And he was diligent on

every comma, every word. He really worked hard. I will say this, this is sort of funny. The first time I met him, I went up to him. It was at Hal's Christmas party, Hal Prince's Christmas party. I went up to him and I said, do you know who I am? I had a beard. And I go, do you know who I am? He said, yes, you're Richard kind and the beard goes. That was the first thing he said to him. also one other thing short thing is there's a thing called Zitzprobe

which is when the orchestra you hear the orchestra play what you're going to hear for the rest of the run you've been only accompanied by a piano now you've got an orchestra so we're doing Zitzprobe

and I go to the bathroom at the same time he goes to the bathroom I didn't harmonize a lot there were a lot of just solos in the show and I said thank you so much for not writing harmonies

I can't do them and he said he can't do them either he can write them but he can't sing them either His ear isn't good enough. What was it like? He was one of your heroes. You always wanted to be in one of his shows.

And here he was directing you and kind of being very picky about every word and probably about every note as well. Sure. Did that make you self-conscious? Yes, I was very scared. I was nervous the whole time. I was a smoker at the time. That's when I quit smoking. You quit smoking to sing Sondheim.

You have to. I had to do it. But, well, I know what smoking can do. You have to have breath control. You know, you have to go to the end of the line. You can't take a pause in the middle of one of his words or one of his sentences. He writes for actors. That's what he does.

His songs, although lyrical, are more actory if you're doing a show. Yes, send in the clowns as a solo piece is a lovely song. But in the show, it takes on a completely different, it's a completely different animal. And you have to be able to serve. that. Actually, if you're in a sitcom, you can't take a breath in the middle of a line because in order to get the proper laugh, you have to take it to the end of the sentence. Otherwise, the audience may hear where the joke is going to go or you can't surprise them. And there's a rhythm to a joke. You have to be able to control what that rhythm is. So smoking is your

enemy. You have to have lung control. So we talked a little bit about, you know, working with Sondheim on one of his musicals. Earlier in your life, your music was being a singing waiter in a Manhattan restaurant. How did that work? And what was your restaurant repertoire? I'm thinking, speaking of Sondheim, that you have to sing like upbeat and gratiating songs

and you can't sing a song from Sweeney Todd, like, they all deserve to die. You don't. For me, I sang my audition song was, hey there. I would sing that. I'd sing. The big song was, uh, there is nothing like a dame. I got to sing that pretty well. Uh, one night, one night Theodore Bichel was in the restaurant. I wanted to impress him so much. So I wanted to sing there is nothing like a dame, which goes up to a high C, I think, or a G, let's say. A G. It goes up to a high G, which was a note at the time

that I could reach. So we had a replacement pianist that night. The guy who usually played it for me, was not there. So he goes, what key do you sing it? And I go, I don't know. And he goes, well, maybe you'd see it and see. And as I'm singing and I'm going, this doesn't feel right. So that by the time I go, sing, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-a-da-me, like that. And I hit the wrong note, it was horrible.

And the whole restaurant stopped. I did not impress Theodore Backell. I ran back to the kitchen. And the chef, who was a lovely guy, and he was French, he goes, oh, Richie, that did not sound good. It was hilarious. Were tips based on your singing? God, no. I'd starve.

Listen, Terry, I sing, but I'm not a singer. And that I could do son time, I can hit notes, but I can harmonize. And I'm not a singer. People ask me to sing. It's like I'm an improviser, but I'm not a great improviser. I can improvise. There are great singers and there are great improvisers.

I'm very good. It's just in my bag of tricks. So I can sing a song, but I'm not great. But I can, I'm very loud. I'm from the Ethel Merman School of Music, and that's what I do. If you're just joining us,

my guest is Richard Kind. We'll talk more after a break. I'm Terry Gross, and this is fresh air. You had a teacher, an acting teacher, who said to you, you're not going to get the roles. Right. It's not what Hollywood wants. Yeah. So how discouraging was that when your own acting teacher said to you,

you're not going to get the roles until your 30s? Did you see that as discouraging? Like he's telling me I'm not going to get roles? Terry, you heard me. Or wait, wait, wait. Or did you see it as encouraging with him saying like, it's going to take some time, but you will get roles when you're in your 30s? You will do well. No, I had to. No. You're talking about two teachers. Oh. My high school teacher, I went to school with.

a great actor named Robert Curtis Brown. You'd know him as the yuppie in trading places. Now, he's had a career that's much larger, but whenever I mention his name, that's his most famous role. He was a great actor. He is a great actor and a handsome guy. So I had my high school teachers say, you know, go into your dad's business because Hollywood is looking for Robert. Okay? That's who they want. I acknowledge that. Then I went to college as a pre-law so that I would take over my dad's door. Frank Alati, a very well-known Chicago Theater Maven at the Goodman at Steppenwolf

and a teacher at Northwestern. So when I got his advice, he said, look, be a producer, and so you get to be in showbiz, but you're busy. I go, no, it's either I'm an actor or I'm a rich jeweler. And I said, he said, well, you're not going to get famous or get known until you're in your 30s. you sort of grow into who you are. Did I believe him?

Terry, I wish that I could say this is what I chose to do. All I did was say yes to whatever was presented and my path was created by that. I didn't set out to join Second City. I went to someplace in Chicago, practical theater company. They saw me and said, do you want to do Second City? I said, yeah, well, Second City taught me a lot. Four and a half years, all of that way station of waiting for roles and waiting for roles was spent on stage and getting paid and developing into the actor who I was in front of 400 people a night. I got lucky.

I really did. Your father owned a jewelry store in Princeton. And you sometimes work there. And apparently it was a famous store. and I would presume you sold a lot of jewelry to men buying gifts for girlfriends and fiancés and wives and mistresses. What was it like as a man selling to men who know nothing about women's jewelry but want to give something to the woman in their life who they love or they want to impress or they want to make up with? Well, okay. My dad didn't trust me with the beautiful jewels or the expensive stuff. I sold lighters and sterling silver key chains and the pens and stuff like that,

maybe candelabas. But I didn't sell the expensive stuff. And I was no good. I was a good salesman. My dad was a great salesman. I'd spent 45 minutes with some guy saying, oh, you see these pearls? You see how they graduated. You see how this set of, this strand the pearls match each other best. And then my dad would come up. I've been with the guy for 40 minutes. And he would come up. He goes, Bill, Mary wants a strand of pearls. And he'd go, yeah. And he goes, Richie, wrap these up. And he'd pick up the pearls and say, and I would go. And that's what my dad did. I worked and I worked. Now, there's a very funny story where I had a Dunhill lighter. Okay. And I'm showing this woman of various Dunhill lighters, which are beautiful lighters.

and I pull one out and she says I'll take this one and I write down $25 and she says no excuse me I think that's $250 I go no no

it's $25 and I show her and she goes no that says $250 and I look I go oh my God $250 for a lighter so that's the kind of salesman I was

yeah I was not great I would be behind the repair desk and a woman brought in two dome-shaped earrings, like gold earrings, okay? They were large. And she's, one of them was all, you know, had a dense and everything. And she goes, my dog got a hold of this. And I'm wondering if we can match it. And I go, no, but if you bring the dog in, I can feed him the other one. And so that's the kind of, that, that's how I approached my work. So you had a significant

role in a film I really love, a serious man that was made by the Cohn brothers. And Michael Stoolbarg plays a man whose wife is leaving him. He might be losing his teaching job. A student is kind of blackmailing him. His whole life is falling apart. And he's also wrestling with the concept of God and with his Judaism. You play his brother. You're a gambler. You're broke. You have a sebaceous cyst that's become a big problem. You're in misery. And it's a, it's a kind of modern day version of the book of Job. At least that's how I think of it. And I'm wondering if you thought of it that way and if you read or reread the book of Job to do the role and if people talked about it on the set. Not at all. I'm glad I asked. I had a teacher who said

every answer you need is in the script. Just read the script. You don't have to do any research. Certainly the book of Job wouldn't have done anything. I didn't think that was telling the book of Job. I thought I was talking about this guy named Arthur Gopnik, and these were his circumstances. And you play pretend.

If it meshes into what you think is the book of Job and you interpret all of that, God bless you. But no, no, no, that's not what I did at all. I just played the scene. What are my circumstances? How do I feel? And you just play pretend. That's what it is.

What was the Coen Brothers approach to directing you, from your point of view as an actor? What was it like to work with them? They're great. I love them. You're always at the height of your game. I was surprised at how word perfect they liked their script, but they should, because they're great writers. Sometimes Joel would take a physical position

that sort of told me everything about what he wanted in the scene. The scene where the police were at the door, he sat down in a chair and he leaned back. And Joel is a long, lanky man. And his face almost looked. five inches longer than it is. And that's what I saw in when I leaned back in the chair. Dare I say, he almost looked like a horse when he was looking back.

And that's what I saw. So I played pretend that I was a lovely man, even though I am a poker player. You said a gambler, I think of myself as a card player, not as necessarily a gambler. And I don't know why. But when you said a gambler, I said, no, I'm not a gambler. I'm a poker player. And that's different. I'm a gamesman.

I'm not a gambler. Does that make sense to you? Absolutely. Okay. And then... You had a skill. You weren't... Yes, I had a skill,

and they're not letting me play cards anymore. Why aren't they doing? Why, I can't even play cards anymore? And what a sad man. I'm a very simple man. As opposed to my brother, who's a serious man. I'm a simple man. That's what I saw.

I'm even talking like him as I'm described this is I don't do that so that's who the guy was let me reintroduce you if you're just joining us my guest is Richard kind we'll talk more after a break this is fresh air the movie a serious man is also about you know like struggling with your faith yes because the michael stewbar character uh um has conversations with with rabbis and he's kind of losing his faith because everything's going wrong in his life. Right. I know you are on finding your roots and you found out that some of your ancestors were religious leaders in the pale of settlement.

Right, right. And the pale of settlement was during the Russian Empire, it was a large area of what we now call Eastern Europe that was basically the ghetto for Jews, like Jews had to live within this expanse of land. and so so many American Jews, their grandparents or ancestors, lived in the pale of settlement. What did it do to your own faith or religious practice if you had any? I know you're born Jewish. I have no idea how observant you are.

But what did it do to your level of observance to find out about people on your family tree being religious leaders? I know what God is to me. I don't believe in a Jewish God. I believe in God. I believe there is a power, and I believe that he encompasses all religions. I believe that religion is just something that we go to to make us feel better or to give us some sort of foundation

because the world is so full of chaos, and we can't really find ourselves. What I do believe is in my ancestors, and I believe that Judaism, that form of foundation, must survive because these people gave their lives and they sacrificed and they believed and in the Jewish religion and in a state of Israel and let them have a foundation that they believe in called Judaism. So it's very important that I know what my roots are and what my heritage is and to serve

my heritage. Do you practice any, do you observe the holidays and? And the Sabbath and all that. Like, how far do you go? No, I don't observe the Sabbath. What I do observe is the high holy days because that God who I believe in and I live my life daily by, I hope, acting correctly to my fellow man, which is a form of prayer to me and a form of going to church or going to temple.

Wow, I can't believe I just said going to church. I believe that is my way. of serving God. I believe I'm a good person. And I try and do, I really do try and do unto others as I would myself. So I do go to Russia Shana, and I do go to Yom Kippur, and I am very observant about that. Part of it's karma. Part of it is, hey, don't tilt the boat. You know, don't, don't rock the boat right now. Just keep going. And it's also the acknowledgement of my parents, my grandparents, and all those heritage. But I can't believe that my, no, how my genetics have just dissipated over the years so that they started out as rabbis in the 1600s, and this is

what we end up with, me, Richard Kind. That's horrible. But I do try and study as much as I can and read and try and be up on news and be as responsible a citizen as I can to serve those rabbis. who were there at the time. What you're saying reminds me of something that you've told another interviewer, which is you said, I have a huge ego with no confidence. You want to explain? Yeah. Being an actor, it's abnormal.

It's an anomaly. It's unnatural for a man to get up on a stage in front of people. It's unnatural to be in front of a camera. while 50 to 100 people are behind the camera and pretend that you're somebody else and just lay bare your emotions or pretend you're somebody else. It's unnatural. You know how people are scared of getting attention and I'm waving my arms going, look at me, look at me, look at me.

And yet with that look at me, look at me, look at me, comes a fear of what I said earlier, I'm a fraud, am I good enough? I can't, I don't know whether or not what I'm doing. And I think any actor worth is salt would like to be better and give a better performance than what they gave. There's, oh my gosh, did I do it correctly? Should I do it again? I need affirmation all the time.

It's why I like live theater. Even if it's a drama, I can feel the audience listening to me. liking me. That's, and I'm an empty, I'm an empty, there's no bottom to the urn of love that I need. That is lack of confidence. And yet my ego says, go out and do it and do it and do it louder than everybody else. It's who I am. I'm oversized in my voice. I'm loud. In my opinions, when I'm opinionated, I'm really loud. And even my acting. A funny line that my friend Craig Bierko said in a toast once he goes,

the astronauts were up in space and they saw two things, the Great Wall of China and every acting choice Richard Kind ever made. I love that line so much. It's so funny. It's so funny. Is it how I chose to live my life? No, I wouldn't choose it, but it's what I'm saddled with. Do you tell jokes?

I mean, you obviously have a great sense of humor, but do you actually tell joke jokes? Nobody tells a joke better than I do. Oh, great. Do you want to tell us one that you love? Sure. So this mother is making her teenage son's bed, and she's tucking in the sheets, and she reaches us underneath, and she pulls out a magazine of bondage, of like, handcuffs and, whips and she goes oh my god so the husband comes home she goes honey honey honey look what i found under

timmy's bed he goes oh my god she goes what are we going to do he goes well we're certainly not going to spank him that's great oh i got lots of them nobody tells a joke better than i do well richard kind thank you so much for talking with us oh thank you terry this was fun i enjoyed it You're great. You're great. My interview with Richard Kind was recorded in April, while he was appearing in the Netflix series Everybody's Live with John Malaney, as Malaney's sidekick. It's streaming on Netflix.

After we take a short break, jazz critic Kevin Whitehead will remember some of the jazz musicians we lost in 2025. This is fresh air. Today, our jazz historian, Kevin Whitehead, looks back at seven jazz notables who died this year. He earlier paid tribute. to band leader Jack to Jeanette and to my late husband,

the jazz critic Francis Davis. Kevin's RIP list starts with singer Sheila Jordan. So she said me to live with my grandparents near a small coal mining town, Pennsylvania State. Grew up with the coal miners. Singing in the beer garden

every Saturday night. We used to sit around And they'd drink And they'd sing their songs You are my sunshine My only sunshine You make me happy But rarely did they ever fight

Sheila Jordan, who grew up partly in western Pennsylvania, as she tells us on Sheila's Blues from 1984. Jordan, who died in 2025 at 96, started singing as a kid and never stopped, building on Charlie Parker's bebop to find her own confident voice in all sorts of musical settings. She also taught and inspired countless other vocalists. When Sheila sang, you could hear the joy she found to jazz, which kept her eternally young.

Other veteran singers who passed this year include Cleo Lane, Nancy King, and Lillian Bouté. Also, the buttery smooth baritone Andy Bay, who lingered over slow ballads. But Andy Bay also had a way with rhythm tunes, like this 1970 Duke Pearson number. And I don't care who knows, maybe I'm yours. Musicians from the jazz rhythm section who died in 2025 include guitarist George Freeman,

pianists Hal Galper, Mike Wofford, and Mike Ratlitch, drummers Al Foster, Greg Bandy, and Lewis Maholo, Maholo, tuba players Joe Daly and Jim Self, and one of the great bass players of our time, whose appointment book was always full, Ray Drummond. Bass violin is a big instrument, and Drummond was a big man who handled it with effortless grace. Another influential teacher who passed this year was alto saxophonist Bunky Green,

who taught in Jacksonville for a couple of decades after a long spell in Chicago. He didn't record so very much, and not always in ideal settings, though even his 70s funk records have their moments. Back then, his slippery phrasing and side-slipping harmony pointed the way for a few. Outto stars Steve Coleman, Greg Osby, and Rudresh Mahanthapa. Here's Bunky Green on Tension and Release in 1979. Another much better known horn player passed in 2025. Let's listen a bit, then I'll tell you who it is. The Jazz Messenger's 1966 on Secret Love with trumpet hot shot Chuck Mangione.

A few years later, would turn his attention to pop jazz, hitting it big in 1978 with Feels So Good, a terminally mellow tune that set him up for life. Chuck Mangione was a good sport about his flugelhorn cuddling public image, spoofing himself on TV's King of the Hill. But give the man his due, his younger self could really play. Chuck Mangione. A few other players who worked at the edges of jazz passed in 2025,

including vibraphonist Roy Ayers, accordionist Guy Closevic, much-missed pedal steel guitarist Susan Alcorn, Brazilian multi-instrumentalist Hermetto Pasquo and the great Bronx-born Latin band leader Eddie Palmieri. As a pianist, Pomeri showed off some fresh moves within the Afro-Cuban tradition. Soloing on his Dime from 2005, every time he slams out a chord, it's like he's switching channels to another rhythmic profile. It's a Montuno-gone postmodern. Besides Eddie Palmieri, another formidable arranger for big bands died this year.

Pianist Jim McNeely, who played with New York's Vanguard Jazz Orchestra for years. He also wrote for several European radio bands who loved how good his sleekly handsome charts made them sound. Let's go out with a slice of Jim McNeely's sweet rituals where drift on themes and rhythms from Stravinsky's right of spring, McNeely looking forward and back as the jazz greats do. The stuff masters like these dreamed up is now part of the collective wisdom shared by all of us they leave behind.

Kevin Whitehead is the author of New Dutch Swing, Why Jazz? And Play the Way You Feel. Tomorrow on Fresh Air, we'll continue our retrospective of some favorite interviews from 2025 with Jeff Hiller. This year, he won an Emmy for his performance in the HBO series, Somebody Somewhere, as Joel, the main character's best friend who runs a secret nighttime cabaret at his church for his LGBTQ friends. Jeff Hiller originally felt called to be a pastor, but being gay was a pretty major obstinate. I hope you can join us. To keep up with what's on the show and get highlights of our interviews,

follow us on Instagram at NPR Fresh Air. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham, with engineering today from Charlie Kier. Our managing producer is Sam Brigger. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Anne Riebel Donato, Lauren Crenzel, Teresa Madden, Onig Nazareth, Anna Bauman, Thea Chalner, Susan Yucundee,

and Nico Gonzalez Whistler. Our digital media producer is Molly C.V. Nesper. Herberta Shorak directs the show. Our co-host is Tanya Mosley. I'm Terry Gross. All of us at Fresh Air wish you a happy, healthy, and fulfilling new year.