Fresh Air - Roy Wood Jr. Thinks Of Comedy As Journalism

Episode Date: January 13, 2025

A good comedian has to "know what regular people are going through," Roy Wood Jr. says. In his new Hulu special, Lonely Flowers, Wood riffs on how isolation has sent society spiraling. He spoke with Tonya Mosley about leaving The Daily Show, learning from other comics, and how an arrest pushed him to pursue stand-up.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

This is Fresh Air, I'm Tanya Mosley, and my guest today, comedian Roy Wood Jr., takes the serious, sometimes absurd stuff we deal with in everyday life and makes us laugh about it. Even news events that on the face of it are kind of scary, like white men in America gravitating to militia groups. You had to know the militias was coming. You knew it was coming. It's America.

What we do in America? You have progress, then you have backlash. That's the cycle of this country, progress, then backlash. You knew the militias was coming. Just look at the last four, five years. You can't have the first black woman vice president, the first black woman Supreme Court justice, and the first black woman mermaid.

It was too much. And they couldn't handle it. That mermaid, that's the one that broke them, that damn mermaid. When they did that little mermaid remake, they was like, oh no, meet me at the bakery tomorrow, we're losing the White House. We're losing the courthouse. There's a fish in the water, brothers. That's Roy Wood Jr. in his latest comedy special, Lonely Flowers, on Hulu.

It's Wood's take on how isolation has sent society spiraling into a culture of guns, protests, rude employees, self-checkout lanes, sex parties. And he also talks about why some of us would rather be alone than connected. Wood is known for his razor sharp wit. He spent years on the standup comedy circuit, dissecting pop culture and current events. And for nearly eight years, he was a correspondent for The Daily Show with Trevor Noah. Wood currently hosts the CNN news quiz show, Have I Got News for You, which was adapted from a long-running British series under the same name. Roy Wood Jr., thank you for being

here and welcome back to Fresh Air. Thank you for having me back. It is a pleasure. You know, at the end of that clip I just played, you heard the beep. That was the N-word. It was part of the punchline that you use in the joke. And it almost is like an exclamation point. And I know that you have weighed whether you use it. I think you talked about in another special how your uncle was like trying to not use it himself. Yeah, trying to quit it. He's on the patch. He's on the N-word patch. Right, right. He's on the N-word patch. How do you decide when to use it in your comedy? I try to use it in scenarios where I feel like if I'm impersonating a person who would have said it,

or if it is a feeling of exasperation. It's like if there is an emotion, then there is a word for it. And not everybody agrees with particular words, but I feel like once you've had the conscious thought, then as they say, God knows your heart, well, then you said it. So I'm not going to say fricking or gosh darn, that just for me does not work.

I have resigned myself to the truth though, that certain words are going to nail to chalkboard certain people because they just don't like those words. And if that's the case, then I'm not sure if everything that I do is going to be for you. And that's fine. And when done properly, a comedy booker told me ages ago, this was late 90s, she said, profanity should be the seasoning, never the main ingredient.

And so I curse way more when I am first starting a joke. And a lot of that is just nervousness and curse words become um words. Like if you saw me in a comedy club working new material versus when it's polished, it's night and day. And so you have all of these curse words and they're a scaffolding and then you slowly start taking the support beams away to see whether or not the joke is really funny. I did notice though, I mean I noticed when you were on Conan O'Brien, his podcast, you used it and he didn't laugh, you know, and because he kind of It also can make people uncomfortable, right? It can make people they don't know if they can laugh at it

Can I laugh at this? Yeah, and and that's the thing that For me, I'm just going to be my natural self I'm not doing it deliberately to make you uncomfortable. But if you choose not to laugh, that's fine I'm not the type of person that would trip at you laughing at it, but you don't know that about me. You don't know what type of black person I am. So I'm not, I'm still being myself for the people who rock with what I do.

And if they get it, they get it. And if you choose not to laugh at that line, but you laugh at the next joke, cool. We're perfectly fine, but I just, I've lost the desire to change how I am in the presence of everyone to make them feel comfortable because then when am I ever myself? I want to know how you got to that point because I just noticed within a bit you do this thing where you reference something that the masses will get and in that same bit there are references that only black people will

get. I mean an example of this was last season on your CNN quiz show. It was the one where you had Kara Swisher on. And you made a reference to the movie, Coming to America. Now, I mean, that is a popular movie, but it's a black cult classic. And there was this line you said, like as the punchline, whatever you like,

which is like a part of, that's part of the movie that like, I wondered if everybody on the panel knew what you were talking about, which made it even funnier, because it's almost like a nod you're giving to those who know. Is that intentional?

Because you're able to bring like all parts of yourself to make everybody laugh. Yeah, I like that. I mean, it's funny, it's funnier for people who really connect with that part of my being culturally. But if you don't know that that's a coming to America reference, me just saying whatever you like, that works fine and the joke is fine,

but it's like a joke and then there's a bonus joke, if you will. I remember in my first special, I can't remember how the joke goes, but basically, oh, when black people die, they fall in slow motion. And how when Apollo Creed died, when I look at the American flag,

it makes me think of Apollo Creed's death. And Apollo Creed got hit by that Russian and died. And that was a terrible day. And then I imitate the slow motion fall that gets a laugh. And then under my breath, I just go, Michael B. Jordan lost his father. Yeah, right. And then I continue on.

Either you get that Creed reference or you don't, but I'm not gonna stop and explain that. And we're talking about literally a sentence. So if you don't get that sentence, okay, that's fine. There's other things for you to enjoy. Do you take a lot of time to find that bonus joke inside of the joke? Like those types of examples to like put into your sets? That comes way later once you're comfortable with the bit and then you're on stage and it's jazz

and you're just finding moments between the chords to kind of freestyle. But you have to be comfortable with the sheet music first before you start adding, you know, all of this other stuff in there. I don't necessarily write like a broader joke and then go, now how can I get my people to chuckle a little more? If it's there, it's there. If it's not, it's not. Okay. I want to play another clip from Lonely Flowers. In this clip, you're talking about

grocery shopping and how it seems like most store clerks have been replaced by self-checkout. Let's listen. We need that cashier back. The grocery store cashier was the connection for crazy people to feel seen. There's a lot of people that's alone in a basement just loading a rifle, and once a week, they need a snack. And that cashier was the connection. That's the job of the cashier, to make lonely people feel like they have a connection. Grocery store cashier didn't care who you were.

She making chit chat. The whole while your s*** coming down the belt. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I like this flavor, too. Blah, blah, blah, blah. That brother go home and feel good about himself. She asking him about his dog and his s***. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

How's Mr. Gible? Blah, blah, blah, blah. If you live alone and a cat should ask you about your dog, you'll ride that high for two months. You go home and look at that rifle. Man, I'm trippin'. Let me put this rifle up. I got a friend at the grocery store. I can't be out here murderin'.

That was my guest today, comedian Roy Wood Jr. in his new comedy special on Hulu called Lonely Flowers. Roy, I love that joke because, I mean, of course you went to the most extreme example, but all of us, we do get a little dopamine when we have nice interactions like that, and we are getting less and less of them, you know? When a stranger would just say,

-"Oh, I like your sweater." -"Yes!" It's like, that's gone. You know, writer Wesley Wesley Laurie said about you a few years ago, he wrote that you occupy this space between 1990s Chris Rock and Dave Chappelle in the early 2000s. Do you agree with that? I take that as a high compliment. Wow. Now, considering I grew up studying both of them, along with Carlin and Sinbad,

um... I don't know how to agree with that. You know, I feel like Chappelle... Chappelle takes on far bigger dragons than I do, and I feel like Chris Rock's observations are far more astute and sharp and simple. I use way more words than Chris Rock ever would to make the

same point or to say the same things. And I think that's the brilliance of Chris Rock is the brevity. You know, love them or hate them. You don't have to agree with everything. But there were no wasted words. I go back and watch my old specials. I'd be like, man, that whole joke could have gone.

Should put that joke on YouTube. And bringing up Chris Rock and Dave Chappelle, I also thought about is like, what does it mean for you to keep yourself grounded so that your humor feels connected to the larger sentiment, you know, as you become more and more successful, is that something that you think about? Yeah, you have to know what regular people are going through. You can't do that by just living in uber blacks your entire life. I consider comedy to be a form of journalism, living anthropology in its highest form.

You know, you're doing anthropology on things that are still alive, things that are still evolving. So you have to be immersed in that. You have to bathe yourself in that a little bit. So yeah, take the train. Talk to regular people. But it's the thing I miss the most about morning radio.

More than anything, it's just talking to strangers. And then that becomes the things that I can take and put on stage, because now you're helping to embody. You have an opportunity in a way to be voice of connection. How much time do you take to study your peers, other comedians? Some comedians have an ideology. I don't want to know what any comedian is saying because I don't want it to pollute my thinking where I'm the opposite.

I want to know every single piece of known data that has been performed. What does that do for you? It tells me where not to go. So when I did BET's Comic View in 2004, I'd gotten turned down three years in a row and I'd gotten so angry with them. The year before I got Comic View,

I watched every episode and I cataloged every topic that was breached by a comedian for the entire season. Here's how many jokes about, you know, ugly. Here's sex jokes. Here's race jokes. Here's president. Famous people. Michael Jackson joke. Like, here's president. Famous people, Michael Jackson jokes, like Kobe Bryant, cataloged it all, and then just told myself that entire year, I won't make a joke about any of these things. So now, now, at minimum, I'm original.

I've been thinking a lot about the journalism industry with the decline of trust and the fractured attention spans. And as you said earlier, you feel like comedy is a form of journalism. But through your role on The Daily Show as a correspondent in this new news quiz show, I want to know from you, like that hasn't always been the case where you actually studied journalism and then you decided to be a comedian. But when did it become clear to you that, wait a minute, this thing that I'm doing as a comedian is actually a form of journalism?

When I started researching all the stuff I wanted to talk about and it was just like researching a dang story from college. Yeah. Documentary research. And then once I approached it as that, then it became... Oh, you can find interesting, like, if you can sneak in something that people didn't know or didn't consider into your bits. Oh, cool. You know, The Daily Show changed a lot for me creatively.

Um, Daily Show taught me over analysis and how to find the angle on a topic that no one has touched yet. You know, we know what they're saying. What are they not saying? And how can we say that? And then Trevor Noah taught me through observation as a black man, when to use your anger

and when to keep it in your back pocket performatively. But performing in a state of aggression as I was for the most part coming into the Daily Show doesn't help your point to land with everyone. Did you have a moment when you were on the show where that became clear to you? Yeah, the first piece that I did, the first segment I did that ever aired on the show

was a segment with Jordan Klepper, the first field piece, I mean. It's the first week of the show. It was a segment called our All Cops Racists. And Klepper and I did a ride along with the Appleton, Wisconsin Police Department. It wasn't Madison, it was a Wisconsin city. And we interview a former NYPD

detective about over-policing and police bias and, you know, just all the things in 2015. And this man said the N-word in the interview and... To you? With you there? in the interview and... To you? With you there? Well, he didn't call me an N-word. But he used it, right. He used the word. And so, for me,

the comedian in me and the black man in me, we've gotta talk about that. And so it's Klepper and I doing a two-man, two-on-one interview and he's like reciting fictional rap lyrics was the con just for context. You know, he said if you're a black person, like basically to keep from getting harassed by the police as a black person be respectful and don't have your music blasted when we come up to the car. black person, be respectful and don't have your music blasted when we come out to the car. When I come out to the car after I pulled you over, I don't want to hear, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo. And he says it, right? I'm trying to get him to stay in that pocket and repeat

himself. And Klepper is trying to keep him on the topic of police reform and anti-biased strength. So we're both fighting each other, essentially. And so neither one of us is getting what we want from the person that we're interviewing. And the producer wisely called. You could tell, because I was getting mad. I was trying to make a joke, but I was mad. And it was not, the conversation wasn't going anywhere. And the producer called for a battery change,

which is like our move to like call a timeout. He'll just lie and say that the camera batteries are low, so we need to swap batteries. Yes, they do do that. And so we went out in the hall and reset for a minute. And, you know, we have limited time with these people. We don't have all day. And the idea of me getting mad at him

was not going to end in anything funny. And at the end of the day, this is about the jokes and honoring the segment and the story we're trying to tell about trying to fix the police to save the lives of innocent people. So I can't go on my inward side quest because I could, but I'm wasting tape

and it's not gonna make the edit. Yeah. So you just have to go, wow, that was racist, and gone back to your business. So, you know, I say all of that to say, going into that was racist, and gone back to your business. So I say all of that to say going into my first special, learning where to put that anger, and when to play it here and there, and then allowing my curiosities to go the same way

that it would when I was pitching stories. Because the Daily Show, as a correspondent, people talk about Saturday Night Live, man, and pitching to Lorne Michaels and you pitch in a big room on a Tuesday morning and, you know, your idea either lives or dies right then. Like Daily Show, like a lot of stuff is pitched over email but then you have a field meeting and you could suggest a topic and then four people in the meeting will ask you three or four things about the issue and if you don't know it it's a weak pitch so you're like a newsroom yes so you're literally you live in fear of Having your idea ripped to shred where SNL it's well It's not funny because of this or this idea is funnier. Whereas the Daily Show it's you have not made an

Accurate argument to show me why there's a good level of Confliction with the story because that is where the comedy will come from. Go back and you go away, go figure that out. Sometimes they let you leave the room and the meeting lasts like an hour, 90 minutes. So you can leave the room for 20 minutes and come back and have it together. But that still never felt good. So that research discipline from the Daily Show

bled over into my standup and I'm so happy that none of my hour specials came out before I got that show. Our guest today is comedian and talk show host Roy Wood Jr. We'll be right back after a short break. I'm Tonya Mosley, and this is Fresh Air. Hi, this is Molly C.V. Nesbitt, digital producer at Fresh Air.

And this is Terri Gross, host of the show. One of the things I do is write the weekly newsletter. And I'm a newsletter fan. I read it every Saturday after breakfast. The newsletter includes all the week's shows, staff recommendations, and Molly picks timely highlights from the archive. It's a fun read. It's also the only place where we tell you what's coming up next week, an exclusive. So subscribe at whyyy.org slash fresh air and look for an email from Molly every Saturday morning. Roy, your CNN news quiz show, Have I Got News for You was picked up for a second season. Congrats. Well, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You know,

the ratings of the show for folks who haven't seen it. It's a fake quiz show about current events that happened in the last seven days. So if you have not consumed an ounce of media all week, we are the perfect show to get a recap of the news that was. And we just do that in the form of a question. What senator's husband refused to shake Kamala's hand at the swearing in? And then I'd tell you the answer. And then we would then have a cross conversation

about whether or not spouses should be present at your job. I'm working, I'm getting my ID badge. Why is your husband even here? So we can have these side conversations where we give opinions and a little bit of, you know, analysis and detail and have a little bit of roundtable talk about it, and then come right back into it with a new follow-up question, either about that issue

or something greater. But we also get to be very silly with the show. Yeah, but there was also a lot of hand-wringing in the United States about this show when it was first announced because with us being so polarized, would Americans be able to make fun of themselves in a political climate? What was that first season like? How do you feel now that you've ended that?

You're stepping into second season and you're taking on a new administration. You're taking on a lot of newness in the news. Yeah, and I've said this about this show versus the Daily Show is that with Have I Got News, our job is to simply tell you what happened. That's it. There was a snowstorm. There was a sex scandal, and also this dog saved a donkey from a flood or whatever fun animal video.

The biggest difference between us and The Daily Show is that we don't necessarily have to dig to the bottom of whose fault is this or how do we fix this. That's not the MO of the show. And so, you know, The Daily Show, you know, How do we fix this? That's not the MO of the show. And so, you know, the Daily Show, you know, it's not just that this is happening, but we need to delve into the causation or the solutions. And if you look at John Oliver, John Oliver takes it even more focus

than the Daily Show, where the Daily Show is going to cover multiple stories in an episode. Oliver is like, hey, we're only gonna talk about this one thing and how we got here. We're gonna talk about causation and solution. So, you know, we just get to be a little lighter. So, with that in mind, going into season two in February, yes, we do not know what is going to be happening

under President Trump, but we do know that it is going to be a lot to follow. So we just kind of want the show to be a catch-all for all things relevant in news for the week. When you announced that you were leaving The Daily Show in 2023, I mean, people were shocked. They couldn't believe that you leave what looked like this cushy dream job.

And you were pretty direct on why. But now that you've landed and you've created many things for yourself since then, I'm wondering if that answer is still the same. How are you reflecting on your decision to leave? It's the same. I don't think I would have achieved what I've achieved up until this point if I was still there. You know, because also, let's be real, I'm a father and there still remains a pressure to provide. And so with that pressure, you leave the show and I go, okay, I don't know what's next, but I don't think it's here.

So let me go and figure it out. Okay, well then I sold three TV scripts, I sold a book and an hour special. And then somewhere in the middle of all of that, CNN happened. You know, it's possible that the CNN thing does not happen. It probably does not because the show launched during a presidential election. I would have been under contract.

Like I wouldn't abandon the show in the middle of presidential election. I would have been under contract. Like, I wouldn't abandon the show in the middle of an election, so then you'd miss your window. I mean, you said complacency is as dangerous as failure because you could look up one day, and you're in a worse place. You could stay at a job, and that job could still fire you.

Yeah. And that could have been the case, too. What if I stayed and then gotten fired and then missed the CNN window? Then what? There's not a lot of new shows that are being made right now. Now, I did not anticipate that when I left. Let me just add that I thought that the market

for new television would be much more lucrative. They've cut Jimmy Fallon to four nights a week. They took the band away from Seth Meyers. They replaced James Corden with After Midnight, which is a great show, but fiscally it is exponentially cheaper to make. So, you know, there's been a lot of corner cutting in this time, you know? And so, it goes back to the Doug Herzog quote that I posted the day I left,

where I said, you know, you don't own these jobs, you rent them. And sooner or later, you know, your number's up. So, it doesn't matter if I stayed at The Daily Show sooner or later, an exit is inevitable. Which uncertainty will you choose? Stay at this job, not sure who's going to get hired, or the uncertainty of not having a job and trying to create another job and maybe it'll be an even better job. Choose. Let's take a short break. If you're just joining us, my guest is comedian Roy Wood Jr.

Host of the CNN quiz show, Have I Got News for You? And he also has a new standup special about loneliness called Lonely Flowers. We'll continue our conversation after a short break. This is Fresh Air. At what point in your life did you discover you were funny? Maybe elementary school, fourth grade, fifth grade.

Humor was a weapon. We moved to Birmingham when I was in the fourth grade. It was a weapon? Yeah, it was a weapon. It was a deflector, it was a weapon. It was a deflector, a smoke screen. What were you trying to deflect? I got picked on.

Just trying to keep from getting bullied and get your sneakers stolen. It's the 80s crack era. So you know, some cats is dangerous and if they're not dangerous, they got an older brother who is. They always wanted to be cool. I kept my head low. I was a little class clowny in middle school, but like the idea of explicit thinking and premeditation of humor.

I remember in JROTC, we would have drill every morning in high school. And so there was three tennis courts in a row, side by side by side. And we ran the perimeter of that like a makeshift track. And so you would have to run, I don't know, three or four laps around the tennis courts. And I would deliberately just jog

and be well behind everybody, like two, three turns behind. And then on the last lap, I would call my comeback like a Kentucky Derby announcer. And everybody else, we're all exhausted, and I'm trying to talk and run. It's wood on the outside. Wood is coming up strong. Oh, my goodness.

Wood will come back as they get into the back stretch. What was your ROTC coach like or teacher instructor saying? Sergeant Posey was not feeling this behavior at all. But what can you say? I'm running. You said run, so I'm running. And we would collapse across the finish line and just be howling with laughter. And it worked every time. And it just made me laugh. And there was no purpose

to it, but it was just funny. But you went to college for broadcast journalism. You got into some trouble, though, with the law that changed your directory. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, that whole thing though, is part of what got me into stand up. Because when I was 19, yeah, we stole some credit card. Well, I stole the credit card. They was with me when we bought the stuff. And so like we were baby and your friends. Yeah. And so, like, we were... They being your friends. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, co-defendant, as they're called in the court of law. So, in 98, I get arrested for stealing some credit cards and buying stuff and selling clothing on campus or whatever.

And so, in that time, I get suspended from school. So, this is Thanksgiving of 98. And I get suspended at the top of the year in January for essentially that whole year, except I think I got back in school in like September, October or something. So during that time, I start doing standup because I think I'm gonna go to prison.

I'm like, okay, well, I'm gonna go to prison. Let me try everything I want. What was that thing Sinbad used to do? Oh, yeah, stand-up. Okay, well, where does stand-up happen? Oh, okay, open mics. Oh, okay, well, I'll go to Birmingham. And I took a Greyhound up to Birmingham and performed and went back to the bus station, slept there, because I didn't want my mom to know I was in town. I didn't want her to know. Because, you know, it's a black mom. She didn't know. She didn't know about your arrest?

No, she knew about the arrest. That's why she didn't want me doing comedy. You need to be somewhere with a job looking gainfully employed so they don't send you to prison. To which I said, thanks, Joyce. I think I'm going gonna sleep in bus stations. Right. And go do comedy.

Yeah. This activity makes me happy. And I just wanna be happy right now. And I ended up getting probation. Yeah. Why were you doing that? Why was the credit card ring the way to make money? Cause I assume it was about making money.

No, it wasn't. I mean, money is part of it, but at its core, what that started as, and it took going to therapy to really connect these dots. I didn't want my mother to worry about me. You know, I had a good father. He was a bad husband. And so, you know, money was tight a lot of the time because Pops was tripping. And so, you know, money was tight a lot of the time

because Pops was trippin'. And we moved to Birmingham because my parents reconciled in the third grade. I was in the third grade, maybe fourth. So I remember nights laying in my bed, first grade, second grade, and I could hear my mother asking friends for money. Like the late night calls, asking, you know,

the borrowed money calls, right? And then I remember... I remember when my dad died when I was 16, and, you know, my dad was wanting them hyper-black, you know, I'm not paying no taxes, the black man ain't got no rights, the right to vote expires, voting right, whatever. So my father never paid federal taxes. So when he died, they came for everything.

They came for everything. And I remember that very well. I remember working 30 hours a week in high school to help with the bills because I didn't want my mom picking up another job. And, you know, and I'm still trying to just be a child. I'm still trying to just play baseball, but I'm also working closing shifts on it. I violated every labor law you could name. And you had all types of jobs too, didn't you? Yeah, just for my mom to be able to keep the house through my senior year of high school. And so when I got to college,

I just wanted to be no damn burden, man. I'm tired of asking you for stuff and hearing this deep sigh, and I know what you gotta go through to try and make this pair of sneakers happen for me. So I'm just, I don't wanna bother you. I just didn't wanna be a burden to my mom. And I think that it wasn't about thrill-seeking.

It wasn't about stacking a bunch of cash and saving up to get a car and a gold chain. Everything started from a place of, I just want some clothes for myself, so I don't have to call my mom and ask for clothes. And then, hey, man, I bought a couple extra pairs of jeans. Would you like some jeans? And then that guy going, hey man, I told my friend about those extra jeans you got me.

Can you get him some jeans? And then the next thing you know, you're kind of running an operation. And then the police come and go, hey, this is illegal. So we're going to put you on probation for a little while. And then the police come and go, hey, this is illegal. So we're going to put you on probation for a little while. Go find a career during that time. And then when probation concludes, you can continue that career. And that's what happened.

I was blessed to have a probation officer that gave a damn and allowed me to travel while I was on probation. That is not the norm. Not the norm. You know, and I'm very, very lucky. And that life that I was given back, you know, that's the life I've tried my best to not fumble since then.

If you're just joining us, my guest is comedian Roy Wood Jr., host of the quiz show Have I Got News for You on CNN. And he also has a new standup special about loneliness called Lonely Flowers on Hulu. We'll continue our conversation after a short break. This is Fresh Air. Your dad, you mentioned Roy Wood Sr., he did not pay taxes, as you said, but he was a pioneering radio reporter in Birmingham.

I mean, he covered the civil rights movement. He co-founded the first black radio network. He did not pay taxes, as you said, but he was a pioneering radio reporter in Birmingham. I mean, he covered the civil rights movement. He co-founded the first black radio network. Yeah, Chicago, yeah. Yeah. Did you get to be around his work much when you were growing up? Yeah. I mean, I was there.

I mean, he was a great father. He'd come with me to the radio station. I would sit at his feet while he read AP Wire stories in the 80s. I spent every summer with my father before my parents got back together. So I was around, you know, this man holding court in barbershops, you know, talking to people about issues, talking to the mayor, you know, talking to everyone about stuff.

And I really feel like that was the early days of, how can I put it, the foundation of my ideologies. You know, my father knew all the black leaders, you know, my father was, you know, I don't want to say the man around town, but he kind of was. He also was like, I mean, he was the news guy. You describe him as the voice that we would hear on the car radio in the morning, giving the news on the way to school, on the way to work. It just got me thinking about how much radio, that kind of media, it leaves an imprint on us. But it's also ephemeral, you know? Do you have any tapes or recordings of his work still? Yeah, but they're all reel to reels.

I haven't straightened that out yet. That's something I definitely need to get to because so much of what my father talked about in his commentary work was about a lot of issues with the black race that are still happening today. As much as I spent you know, I spent, you know, like any child, you go through a rebellion period against your parents where you wanna be nothing like them.

And then I look up and I look at the type of comedy that I talk about and I am him. I'm just a little funnier. Right, did he have a sense of humor? No, he, now you wanna talk about somebody who'd use nothing but anger to drive what they was talking about. It was clear he was bad.

Now he could be smooth with how he delivered the knife into your rib cage, but you was going to get the knife messing around with my dad. He wasn't jokey. He was not silly, but he did help create one of Black America's great contributions. Soul Train. Yes. Yeah. Please. You please tell us the story. Yeah. So my dad was the first Black announcer at pretty much most stations he worked at in the 1950s and 60s.

Doing news for the most part. And so he got with some people up in Chicago and decided to create the National Black Network. And the National Black Network was a series of syndicated news stories and articles and programs that would be sent out to black radio stations across the country. And it was simply black. It was the first of its kind news for black people on black stations. So my father was the co-founder of this joint up in Chicago at WVON, and they're looking for reporters. And my dad gets pulled over by a cop,

and the cop has a really deep voice. And the cop goes, hey, man. And my dad goes to the cop. He's getting a ticket. He's in the middle of getting a ticket. And my dad goes, yeah, man, you have a nice voice. You should quit the police force and come work for me. Cop said, what the hell are you talking about? He said, yeah, you have a nice voice. You have a voice for radio. You should be on the radio. You shouldn't be out here doing this. And my dad gave

the cop his card and the cop he gave the card to was Don Cornelius. Officer Don Cornelius of the Chicago Police Department. He had only gone on the force a year. He quit, started working at WVON as a reporter, got an itch for media, eventually came up with a brainchild for a show like Dick Clark's American Bandstand. And he goes to my father and goes, hey man, I'm taking up money, you know, if you want to be an investor in this show. My pops gave Don Cornelia some of the money to shoot the pilot for Soul Train. Now, where the story takes a turn is that it took Don Cornelia's too long to sell the show. We're talking about like my dad gave me like, let's just say

$1,000, which is a gajillion billion dollars in 1916. And today's dollars. Yes. And my dad goes, hey, Don, I need that money, man. And Don goes, instead of giving you your money back, why don't I just keep you on as a producer? You can be an executive producer the rest of your life. Which my dad said, nobody wants to watch black people dance. Give me my money. Nobody wants to watch black people dance. Give me my money.

Don paid them back. My father took the money, signed away his rights to any claims of the Soul Train empire. Did he ever talk about that with you? No, and I could not. I could not watch Soul Train. You never watched it growing up. I was not around him.

Better watch Solid Gold. MTV's The Grind. But you're not watching Soul Train in this house. That's a story that was told to me by my older brothers. My dad never spoke of it. Never brought it up. And I met Don Cornelius years later. And just, I couldn't bring it in me to bring it up. I wanted to so bad, but it just,

it didn't feel like the right time and place. But I'm very thankful to Don Cornelius' children for including that part of my father's contribution within the BET show that they had about Don's life. Oh, wow. Wow. So, yeah, my dad was, you know, there was an actor that cast him, they, that whole get pulled over scene is in the show. That's your dad get pulled over scene is in the show.

That's your dad. Yeah, that's in the show. I was very kind of him. Yeah. I was very kind of him. You mentioned your son and I'm just wondering as your son gets older, are there any parts of fatherhood that you're like, now I understand, looking back at your dad? Mm.

It's more of a in reverse. How could you miss all of this? I know this is the wrong can of beans to open up this late in our conversation, but I think the moments I have with my son, a lot of them are moments that my father missed with me. So it's like, damn, man, how did you miss this? You missed this? You didn't show up to the Boy Scout joint? You didn't show up to the chess tournament, David? Where was you at? What were you doing? Like, that would be the bigger question is,

hey, man, I need you to account for your absences. So it would probably be like a terrible accountability evaluation conversation. Like if my dad was alive today, it'd be me yelling at a 80 year old man. Probably not fair. I know that you're you're writing a book about fatherhood. You've been reflecting a lot on your relationship with your dad. I mean I can relate to this journey that you're on trying to understand him, to understand yourself and your role as a parent and what you want to do and be and show up for your son.

Has that process brought about any compassion for him? You know, you talk about how he was a good dad, but a bad husband. So you saw a lot of stuff. I think that at its core, yes, the short answer to your question is yes. Therapy helped me, and you understand that if you're, you know, computer software, if the software is corrupted, then any program that you attempt to run on that computer is not going to run properly in this case Parenting dot iOS or Being a good communicator being emotionally vulnerable all of that all of that additional software is being built on corrupted

firmware So I have to grade everything that he did on the curve because of his own childhood traumas that I started learning about a little later on. And so, I think that helps to inform it, but it still doesn't. For me, the book that I'm writing though, the book is about the lessons I learned as a man and who else I learned them from in lieu of not getting all of those lessons from him in lieu of his death all of those lessons from him in lieu of his death, of his earlier death. So I think that, yeah, there is a degree of compassion

when you understand, but having compassion and understanding why doesn't change the what. And so how to survive the what and to protect my Son from Future What is the purpose of the book. Roy Wood Jr., this was such a pleasure. I could talk to you forever, but thank you so much for this conversation. Thank you. Thank you for this in-depth conversation. Thank you for caring, researching and stuff. I can tell you went deep.

You didn't just go through the first two pages of Google results on me. You went deep. About 70 pages in, some of these questions. Roy Wood Jr.'s new comedy special on Hulu is called Lonely Flowers. His CNN comedy panel news quiz show, Have I Got News for You, starts its second season next month. Tomorrow on Fresh Air, when Donald Trump talks about taking over Greenland, perhaps with military force, is he serious?

We'll talk about that and the challenges Trump will face in Ukraine, Iran and China with David Sanger, veteran national security correspondent with the New York Times. I hope you'll join us. To keep up with what's on the show and get highlights of our interviews, follow us on Instagram at NPR Fresh Air. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited

by Phyllis Myers, Anne-Marie Baldonado, Sam Bringer, Lauren Krenzel, Teresa Madden, Monique Nazareth, Thea Challener, Susan Nkundee, and Anna Bauman. Our digital media producer is Molly C.B. Nesper, and Roberta Shorrock directs the show. With Terry Gross, I'm Tanya Mosley.