Fresh Air - SNL's Kenan Thompson

Episode Date: December 7, 2023

In his new book, Kenan Thompson shares stories from his life and career, like his early days at SNL, his estrangement from his longtime co-star Kel Mitchell, and how he was conned by an accountant, lost all of his Nickelodeon money and had to file for bankruptcy. "It's humbling when people in the McDonald's drive-thru line recognize you, and then they also recognize that you're paying for a meal with change," he tells Tonya Mosley. His new book is When I Was Your Age. Also, John Powers reviews the documentary Anselm.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

This is Fresh Air. I'm Tanya Mosley. Comedian and actor Kenan Thompson is often referred to as the glue that holds Saturday Night Live together. He's been on SNL for 21 seasons, making him the longest-running cast member in the show's history, with his popular bank of characters like Darnell Hayes, the fictitious host of Black Jeopardy!, or DeAndre Cole, the game show host who sings What's Up With That? What's up with that? What's up with that? What's up with that? What's up with that?

What's up with that? Without a hope Kenan has entertained us for most of his life, first acting in commercials starting at just five years old and later on Nickelodeon, with shows like All That and Kenan and Kel. Of course, that's the story most of us know. In his new book, Kenan takes us behind the curtain, revealing for the first time stories that he's never shared before, like a dark financial period in the early 2000s that almost ruined him,

the time he thought about giving up acting altogether, and what really happened between him and his longtime co-star Kel Mitchell. Kenan Thompson's new book is called When I Was Your Age, life lessons, Funny Stories, and Questionable Parenting Advice from a Professional Clown. He currently stars in the animated musical comedy film Trolls Band Together as the voice of Tiny Diamond and as the co-star of Good Burger 2 with Kel Mitchell. Saturday Night Live is also back for its 49th season. Kenan Thompson, welcome back to Fresh Air.

Thank you very much. Thank you very much. It's nice to speak to you this morning. Yeah, so, you know, every time you're introduced now, it's as the longest-running, longest-serving cast member of SNL. How does it feel to hear that you're like this popular high school senior, you know, among the SNL cast. Yeah, I mean, it's crazy because, you know, we're all young at heart, basically, so you forget exactly how old you are sometimes. And, you know, when you start hearing accolades, it's like, good Lord, I'm just used to getting up and getting dressed and yeah, I'm getting up and getting dressed and going to work every day. And you just forget that time moves on, man, you know. So it's an amazing thing to hear all the time. But it's hard to conceptualize because it's getting to the point where I've been on the show almost half of its existence, you know, and it was a place that I didn't ever really think was going to be possible. So to hear those things is such a paradox. Yeah, it was an aspirational place for you growing up.

Yeah. You know, people have written these really long think pieces about how you're the glue that holds SNL together. Do you see yourself that way? I mean, I don't know. Like, I'm tough with self-praise, I guess, but I am definitely an ensemble-minded individual, and if that echoes across, you know,

in a way that people want to consider me as a glue, great. You know, but I just try to go out there and do my job and, you know, give showcase to these brilliant writers and brilliant minds and all of our departments, makeup and hair and directors and this, that, and the other, you know what I mean? Just try to be a team player. But those things come along with being consistent,

which is definitely, you know, much appreciated. Well, those who grew up with you and Kel Mitchell on all that and Kenan and Kel know how much it means to see the two of you all together again in Good Burger 2, which recently came out. For those who don't know, Good Burger 2 is a sequel to Good Burger. And it was originally a sketch on the 90s Nickelodeon show All That before becoming a movie. The original came out in 1997. So why did this one take so long?

Life journeys, you know? Like, once we ended up leaving Nickelodeon and going our kind of separate ways for a little while, you know, it took a while for it all to come back together, basically, in a way where it can go forward without cracks. You know what I mean? And, yeah, just, I don't know, it just took a lot of, like, friendship healing and stuff like that to make it all happen.

And when I say friendship healing, I mean, like, a four-minute into a half-an-hour phone call that we had had after years of kind of not speaking. So, you know, it was really, really, like, refreshing to just have my brother back. What do you think made you and Kale such a good comedy duo? you know, it was really, really, like, refreshing to just have my brother back. What do you think made you and Kel such a good comedy duo? I mean, I think admiration and respect, but also familiarity,

because very, very similar dudes, similar cities, you know, growing up in, similar experiences. he's from chicago you're from atlanta yeah yeah and like both of us are very black you know i'm saying like we could easily be like carlton's or something like he could be you know will and i could be carlton or whatever but it wasn't like that it was like we were both wills and like we had the same kind of fresh prince of bel-, by the way. Yes. Cooley High references and things like that, basically. Like, that shaped us as people in reference points.

So when we would reference those things, we would know what was funny about it or what was funny that we would bring up John Amos or anybody like that, you know? So it was just very familiar territory to play in. And he was just a great partner because when he runs, he runs. So I had to keep up with him. Right, because how do you think you guys complement each other?

You were the same, but you also had different comedic styles. Yeah. I mean, I realized earlier I couldn't do what he did. So I had to let him do what he does and figure out what it is that I do, which was, like, maybe go the more subtle route. Or when it's time for me to, like, really go out, like, go all the way out as much as I can. But along the way, he was always making me laugh,

so it was always an enjoyable thing. Like, if I was playing the straight man, I was happy to do so because I'm front row seeing it like I do at SNL, which is why I stay there. You know, I got a front row seat to a whole lot of talent. So after Kenan and Kel, you guys went your separate ways. You started to work individually. And so the separation and the not talking, it just came from the space. It did. And then it just grew into, you know, rumor mill kind of nonsense that just kept us kind of pursuing our own kind of like lives. Basically, like learning what it is to be a grown man, trying to get a job and keep a job and this, that and the other.

So there wasn't really a lot of time for what wasn't directly in front of us and since we weren't directly in front of each other you forget that you hadn't spoke to your friend in a while you know what I mean and then you know you let a rumor from a person go in and out of someone's ear or whatever and then you know you just decide not to speak a little longer and then a little longer and then whatever. It just all becomes kind of like, we don't really know why we're not talking kind of thing. You know what I mean? And that's what happened.

And then thankfully, you know, we were like, you know, forced reunited by doing the Good Burger thing on the Tonight Show back in the day. Was that the phone call that you got to do that skit? That was a phone call that needed to happen before we did it, for sure, because we just hadn't really talked. You know what I mean? And like call that needed to happen before we did it, for sure, because we just hadn't really talked. You know what I mean? And like that needed to happen before we could perform together, for sure. Right. When you say he's like a brother, he was really one of the first faces you saw when you joined Nickelodeon for all that.

You guys were both cast members, both 14 years old, and immediately you just clicked. Yeah, you know, he was, you know, the other black face. I'm like, yo, what's up? Like, that's my people. Now we got numbers. You know what I'm saying? I've heard you differentiate being a stand-up comic from being like a comedic actor. And is that something that you're self-conscious about? I know you write about in the book, like going to comedy clubs and hanging out there and not really feeling welcome. Yeah, I was made to be, you know, like before that I was like, oh, it's all good. Like everybody's black. You know what I'm saying? Like I'm, I'm enjoying the show, blah, blah, blah. I didn't

really know that people do that. I didn't know people steal jokes. I didn't know people, you know, come around people and not give them opportunity when they go get opportunity. Like I wasn't aware of the dark sides of, you know, the industry, if you will. You know what I mean? I was just a fan and I was trying to learn where my people were. And then I see a lot of my people. So I'm like, all right, cool. This is kind of the environment I feel comfortable in, blah, blah, blah. And I wasn't aware what I was representing to them, you know what I mean? Like how they were looking at me kind of thing. And then once I was made aware, you know, I didn't want to be, you know,

I didn't want to be flaunting my success in a way kind of thing because I didn't have to worry about, you know, trying to get a spot on stage or to make myself, you know, known to the industry through the microphone at all. Like I was doing it a different kind of way. The only way I had known up until that point, which was being an actor and auditioning. Like I didn't know how to like I didn't really have an interest in doing stand up like that and grabbing open mics like that because I'm more ensemble-minded. Like, I talk about that a lot. Like, I'm not big on boasting and, you know, having my opinion be the one that people have to listen to. Like, forced listening to me is like, you know, it was very intimidating, you know.

But performing for people is different, you know what I mean? Like, it's for people is different. You know what I mean? Like it's, it's just different. Yeah. Was there a moment when you were a kid, when you realized that you were funny? Yeah. I mean, I realized that cute and funny was what I had going early. And my also like personal sense of humor, I enjoyed more so than the reactions of anybody else. So, like, my personal sense of humor being carved, like, by hanging out with my brother and, like, watching 48 Hours and watching, you know, Eddie and, you know, Martin and, you know, early Will Smith and, you know, just all these people. Like, you know, once I got on to Richard, forget about it. Richard Pryor, yeah. Yeah, you know, just all these people, like, you know, once I got on to Richard, forget about it. Richard Pryor, yeah.

Yeah, you know. You know we got to say his whole name because we're in a new era now. Pryor, the legend. Yeah. Sir Master Richard the Legendary Pryor, absolutely. We were introduced to him, like, almost through Superman 3 before I knew about his stand-up comedy you know and like once I started really gathering up my education about it it was like man I really really enjoy comedy like I enjoy performing it I don't necessarily like telling

jokes but I enjoy doing voices and like re-quoting full movies like it's nothing, like from top, from the beginning, opening credits, soundtrack, like coming to America front to back, straight up. Would you be doing that like at home or in the backseat of the car and stuff like that? Yeah, it was mostly road trips, mostly road trips, driving our parents crazy. Well, one thing you reveal in this book, the thing you say is your deepest and most humbling secret is that you were conned by an accountant who was managing your money. You had to file for bankruptcy. What happened? Yeah. Basically, long story short, you know, the promise of looking out turned into taking advantage of. And like we were, you know, unfortunately, like ignorant enough to give a person power of attorney when they should never have had it. Like I've never given anybody that sense.

But, you know, when you're struggling and somebody, you know, comes along and helps you in one situation, you think they can help you in another situation. And that's what happened. Like the dude helped my mom with her tax problem and she thought he was a good enough dude to help me like manage what was coming in. She didn't want me like, you know, spending everything and just going crazy or whatever. So I understood that and, you know, went along with it. And I don't fault her for that to this day, but I know she carries that burden and it breaks my and, you know, went along with it. And I don't fault her for that to this day. But I know she carries that burden and it breaks my heart, you know, because it's not her burden. It's not her karma. It's totally his. But basically, he just, you know, disappeared with everything.

He wiped you out. And we're talking about your Nickelodeon money. So this was early in your career. He wiped me out, but also didn't pay my taxes. So the IRS came for, you know, what they were supposed to be owed. And it didn't matter that the money was gone. So they just came at me. So I had to file bankruptcy. What were those years like, those lean years? You were living in L.A. at the time. Yeah, it was really tough. It's humbling when people in the McDonald's drive-thru line recognize you, and then they also recognize that you're paying for a meal with change. You know what I'm saying? That happened to you? Oh, for sure. On the daily, I wasn't too proud

to get by necessarily, but I would definitely watch the reactions on people's faces. And, you know, some people make jokes when some people didn't notice either. And some people were just like, have a nice day and just happy to see you. You know what I mean? So I had the balance of like seeing that not everything is all the way one way or the other. It's like not the end all be all, but it's also not, you know, the greatest day ever because, you know, somebody didn't notice that I was paying for change or whatever. They were just, you know, high fiving me for being a human being and not about being like a famous person. Even it was just like, you know, a professional employee telling their customer to have a nice day kind of thing. So having the balance and being able to see all of that was actually a gift,

honestly, because I might've been, you know, a little bit numb to that, you know, stop and smell the roses moments of life, you know, and just kind of skipping past it, you know, based on the pursuit of consumerism. I don't know. Right. You, um, you had to sleep on a lot of friends' couches. I mean, I slept on my couches, but I had friends to sleep on. Like, we had an open-door kind of policy because, you know, it was just about who can, like, help us, you know, make a couple hundred bucks a day. Like, anybody got any ideas? Like, people that know California better than I do. And that's not necessarily the best way to live your life.

One of my favorite chapters in the book is about you being a church kid. What did being a church kid look like for you growing up? Was it just on Sundays or were you like a weekday church kid too? In the beginning, you know, we went to church a lot, especially like if we were in Virginia, you know, at my grandparents' house. She would send us to church almost every night just to like get us out of the house, number one, but also like keep us out of trouble. But growing up in Atlanta, yeah, we were in the choir. We were in a teenage choir, just in youth groups, Bible studying. So it was at least three days a week of church for sure. Ushering, you know.

Yeah, a lot of church dedication. And that was the community as well. Those were all the people we knew that were around us. Yeah. As you write in the book, you aren't religious now as an adult, but as a former church kid too, I just wonder how you navigate community with your girls now, because church does offer kind of like this third place from like home and school or work and school, especially for kids. And you talk about in the book, looking forward

to when you were a kid roaming the halls and hanging out with your church girlfriend and all of that. Your girls though, they're living a very different life. I mean, they go to church here and there, whenever they're around their grandparents, they'll take them usually. But I don't specifically go to church as much anymore. I'm not non-religious. I'm just more spiritual and kind of listening to a lot of people's different stories. So I'm kind of just open to whatever is on the positive side of things.

So whoever has stories that lead towards that, I'm like, I'm listening. So I'm not like a devil worshiper, but I can't say that I'm specifically Baptist or I'm specifically Methodist or Episcopalian. I'm just, I love God. I love the universe. It's just bigger to me than that. It's just more inclusive to me. I love how you write about your relationship with your mother and the lessons that she taught you. There's this one story you tell. I think you're in 11th grade and you write about cops following you as you drove to a friend's house. And you had this awakening that night. You raced to your mom and you're like, I understand now. I get it now. What do you remember about that moment?

Well, that was two different times. I, you know, being followed by the cops in Atlanta wasn't anything new necessarily, but it hadn't happened to me yet. So I ran home and told her about that. She was like, well, what were you doing? I was like, we were just riding around looking at houses. She was like, well, you have to be aware, you you know like those things might happen and make sure that you're you know not riding dirty and this that and the other but the time I actually came home with an awakening I had just learned a whole bunch from you know outside of high school kind of theater department kind of people that were you know giving us knowledge that wasn't in the current curriculum kind of thing and I was like putting know, kind of two and two together about all these things. And

I just came home and just unloaded on, you know, all these things that I was like, well, this is happening and this is happening and this is happening. Did you know this? And did you know that? And can you believe this? And she just had to sit there and be like, yeah, I'm aware. And like, that is what it is. And I remember the sadness on her face of watching my innocence go away like that. You think about that with your daughters, like there will be a time, there will be a moment when they understand their place in the world and then just the greater world, you know? Yeah. And hopefully, you know, on the other side of the bridge, they'll understand that their place is defined by them, you know,

and it's not necessarily defined by any specific system, you know. Like, there are systems in place that might make it difficult, but at the same time, you are the individual and this is your life to live. So, you know, you can confront whatever walls you come across, basically. If you're just joining us, our guest today is Kenan Thompson. We're talking about his new book, When I Was Your Age, life lessons, funny stories, and questionable parenting advice from a professional clown.

We'll be right back. I'm Tanya Mosley, and this is Fresh Air. Yeah, Tanya. Hi, this is Molly. And I'm Seth. We're two of the producers at Fresh Air. If you like listening to Fresh Air, we think you'll also like reading our newsletter. You'll find the interviews and reviews from the show all in one place. Plus, staff recommendations you won't hear on the show, behind-the-scenes Q&As, bonus audio. It's also the only place to find out what interviews are coming up. We keep it fun, and it comes straight to your inbox once a week.

Subscribe for yourself at whyy.org slash fresh air. Today, my guest is actor and comedian Kenan Thompson. He's got a new memoir called When I Was Your Age, Life Lessons, Funny Stories, and Questionable Parenting Advice from a Professional Clown. He currently stars in the animated musical comedy film Trolls, band Together, as the voice of Tiny Diamond, and as the co-star of Good Burger 2 with Kel Mitchell. Saturday Night Live is also back for its 49th season.

Kenan holds the distinction of being the longest-serving cast member on Saturday Night Live. And Kenan, people might be really surprised to learn that SNL salaries, for starters, aren't that high at all. When you first started, you weren't instantly rich. No, it took a while. Yeah, I mean, in part because you were coming into it after dealing with that bankruptcy. But also, it's people often think, you're on TV, so you're balling, basically. Yeah. I mean, I think people know now because they've made enough kind of jokes about it on the show. But in the beginning, yeah, it's like, not only are you up for grabs basically every summer, so you don't know like where your life is going until they tell you to come back.

But yeah, it's like the first show goes on hiatus in the summer. Right. Exactly. And then you're not paid during that time. Yeah. And then they they choose whether or not you're going to come back. It's not like you just get a two or three year kind of deal in the beginning. It's like, no, every summer it's based on performance. So it's a lot of unknowns and mystery in the beginnings of your SNL existence. And that goes on for a while. You know, it's a seven year before you renegotiate or whatever.

And like some people become, you know, very popular early. So their renegotiations might come earlier than others. But if that doesn't happen for you, you've got to do that seven-year stretch. And it can really, I don't know. That sounds like a lot of pressure. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It can either make you the adult you're going to be or it can break you. It was hard for you at first, though.

I mean, you were brought on to SNL to replace Tracy Morgan. Tracy took you to dinner and gave you some really good advice though. What did he say? Yes. So my first day, it was like Tracy was still on the show because he was just there still holding court in the middle of like the conference room like we're just telling jokes like with the writers and stuff like you know doing stand-up from a chair basically and I was like yo this is unbelievable like he's here you know what I mean like I thought he was off the show or whatever I thought he was gone like doing the other stuff or whatever but he's like really right here and that was amazing because I was a huge fan of his for years and years and years. And he just immediately, you know, little brothered me.

And, like, I had been wanting that, you know, from adult performers for so long. Like, I had so many heroes in the game. And I had been in the game for a while. And, like, I just hadn't been, like, little brothered like that. Like, nobody took me under their wing yet. Yeah. Like, not super-duper mentored from, you know, my heroes. And like, you know, with Tracy, it was immediate.

And he took us to TGI Fridays. He gave us all kind of advice, you know. Well, what did he say to you? He gave you advice that sticks to you to this day. Number one was don't peek at dress. That's the main one that he always tells everybody because it's like. And what does that mean? Yeah. It means don't do your best when it doesn't matter.

I mean, it matters, but like that's not the one that really counts. The live show is what counts. So if you peek at dress and then the live show is kind of just iffy or whatever, it's not a real score. And then you've spent your whole week. I don't know. You just you let it off too early, basically. But how do you do that? I like, cause you're trying to sell the skit too, right? The sketch. Cause like, as you're rehearsing it, you want people to see it. The team to see this is like a viable thing, but you don't want to give too much. I don't really know. I just end up double

performing, you know, and just blowing it out. And that's like usually why I slept for a lot of Sundays in the beginning, because I would just go all out, you know, like I didn't know what else to do. Yeah. I talked to Leslie Jones a few months ago, but you know, you're all in her memoir. She says that you're one of her favorite people. Well, part of why Leslie Jones became a cast member, in part, is because you refused to play the role of a black woman on SNL because you were playing these roles. They dress you up in a dress and a wig. Was there a straw for you, a moment when you said, nope, I'm not going to play a woman anymore? I don't remember a specific moment. I just remember it had gotten to a point you know and I was like like I feel like

it was around when Michelle was starting to emerge before you know Barack ran for his campaign like they were just emerging as people and at that point like I had done like a lot of random you know kind of impressions that weren't really impressions they were just people that existed like Carol Moseley Braun like I don't have a Carol Moseley Braun impression, you know what I mean? And I don't have an Esa-Patha Merkerson impression, you know what I mean? It's just, like, these are just people that have names and are out there in the world. And Esa-Patha was doing a lot of, like, Law & Orders or something like that, so her name would come up in the zeitgeist in that era.

But, like, you know, I didn't spend my life growing up, you know, doing impressions of like Whoopi even, you know, so it just became like a lot. And I was like, I feel like, number one, we're missing the opportunity of finding someone incredible. But also, number two, like this is kind of tapped out, you know, like we told this joke before, basically. Yeah, basically. Yeah. Yeah. If you're just joining us, my guest today is actor and comedian Kenan Thompson. He's written a new book called When I Was Your Age, Life Lessons, Funny Stories, and Questionable Parenting Advice from a Professional Clown. We'll continue our conversation after a short break. This is Fresh Air. When there is a guest host, you most often are always the one

standing next to them in the promos or part of their opening monologue. How and why does that happen? I mean, I've made up a theory in my mind. I would love to know how it works. I mean, I think the promos rotate, but, you know, it's nice when they call you to do it often because it feels like, you know, you just help deliver things, you know what I mean, in a way that makes it a lot less of a headache or something like that. If I can make anybody's job easier, then, you know, call me up. I'm here for it. And then monologue things is just, you know, if one of the writers, you know, has a joke for it or an idea for it or it fits, or if I have an idea, like with Chadwick, you know, I just had that idea. Chadwick Boseman, yeah.

Yeah. God bless him. I just had that idea to do Panthro you know I mean because Thundercats was big in my life growing up so I just knew you know everybody would understand it but you know people were kind of 50 50 it's like some people knew and some people didn't really get it but once they saw me in the full costume that definitely delivered at home which was great it was so great to dress up as Panthro, like it was a dream come true. Oh my gosh. So just to remind people, the late Chadwick Boseman guest hosted, you were part of the opening monologue. That's what you're talking about. And you got to dress up. Can you tell us a little bit more about it yes well i i interrupt chadwick's uh monologue fully dressed like the character

panthro from the thundercats which was a cartoon in the 80s and everybody assumed that panthro was black because of how his voice sounded and that was just you know what we ran with his kids that was a rumor you know what i mean because he Because he sounded like a black exploitation kind of character. Like any black man that don't take no mess kind of thing. I don't even know if he was black or not. It hasn't been proven. But in my mind, he was. So I interrupt Chadwick talking, and I'm claiming to be the original Black Panther who's not getting enough love.

Dressed as a light blue bald-headed panther. Oh, a panther from the Thundercats? Yeah, that's right. You must be the Black Panther-style superhero who has space-age technology. Hmm, where have I heard that one before? All right, from when it was me. All right, all right, all right, Panthro.

Black Panther was created in 1966. Thundercats are from the 80s? No, actually, Thundercats are from Thundera, the cat planet where cats lived in harmony until Mumra made it explode. Not that you care. Panthro. Come on, dude.

I know you guys are doing a sequel. Hook a brother up. It's hard out there for a black space cat with spiky suspenders. Hey, man, I gotta ask. Is this another one of the bad ideas the writers had that I'm in right now? Nope. I actually heard that this was Kenan Thompson's idea, and I'm told that he stands by it.

Fifteen seasons, baby. You know, you meet so many guest hosts and so many cast members rotate, come in and out over your 21 seasons. But it sounds like this is one of those that you'll always remember. You have those that probably come to mind to you. Absolutely. I mean, there's a number of them. I usually remember them when I watch them back. And it's really like, I don't know,

it's extreme to see how many people there it really has been and how many moments and how many cultural moments it's been. It's just really, really big across the board of music and talent. It's wild. But definitely Chadwick sticks out amongst others. But it sticks out because we had so much fun, let alone how amazing he was as a person. But we also did a great show. So that's when the full cake has been made for sure oh i like

that the full cake do you ever look back and say i don't even remember doing that at all all right are there ever those oh yeah like full sketches where i'm like sitting there saying all kind of stuff dressed and you know all kind of stuff and like doing all kind of stuff and i have no recollection of it at all. And I'm like, that's crazy. I know. Like Pee Wee Herman, like Paul Rubens had to remind me, you know, of his time on the show in a digital short, you know,

in like Sandberg's like first or second year or something like that. And I had to watch it back because and then remember like oh yeah we actually were shooting at night with Paul Rubin you know and like it's such a like secondhand thing because Esno is so big and broad and the people that come in and out of there like could be anybody at any given moment so if you focus too hard on it it can be overwhelming in my opinion it was overwhelming for me so i intended to probably disassociate or tune out or something and he like reminded me he's like remember like blah blah blah i saw it i was like once i saw it i was like yeah totally i remember that night because i remember

that shirt and i was like you know but i had forgotten you know what the sketch was even about because i don't think i was watching the shows back early on in my years because it was just too awkward for me. And I didn't want to second guess or overly criticize myself or whatever. So yeah, it was just one of those things that was lost in the memory banks. You got over not watching yourself, but you do watch yourself back. What are you looking for when you're watching yourself back? Mostly just enjoying what I heard happen in the room.

I was like, oh, I heard that when I was listening as I was performing that that went well, so I wanted to kind of see what everybody else saw just out of curiosity. I did this like a tape to my kids sketch thing where i was like this is a video explaining something you know when the character kind of like passes away or something like that or whatever um and i think it was when zoe kravitz hosted and they were fast forwarding through the video. So then I was like doing the fast forward movement like the tape was fast forwarding.

And like, you know, it really got like an applause break like twice or whatever, you know, because it was like really funny or whatever. So I remember watching that back and I was like, oh, yeah, that's pretty funny. Yeah. Because, right, I mean, when you're in scene, do you even sometimes hear the clapping or the act, like knowing what hit? You ever listen back and like, oh, or you watch back and you're like, oh, that was what hit. I didn't even realize it in the moment. Yeah. No, I definitely like acknowledging in the moment like, oh, no, I know what they're clapping about. Like I know that that's the gag basically, but I don't necessarily expect it to hit that hard.

I was like, oh, wow. Well, thank you. I mean, you know, I didn't realize I had blown y'all's minds like that. So, you know, when a bit really hits or a moment in a sketch really hits. What about when you think something is really funny and nobody laughs in the room? You know, it's the funniest thing ever. You know, like it really makes me laugh because it's like, oh man, like where did we miss? Like where is the disconnect here? And why am I such a weirdo that I think that that's funny and nobody thinks it's funny? You know, like it it's just it starts to like offer a lot of questioning which is a lot of fun because you know you're digging a lot of the time as a creative you know you're

digging for something that's going to stick when you're trying to build something so how do you save a skit when you see it's failing do you have any specific tactics while you're in the moment like okay i see where this is going i need to turn it around i mean you the word should save it you know itself in general so like if there's a dead pocket hopefully you wrote something that has legs around any specific moment that doesn't like work you know what i mean like maybe the overall sketch won't work as big as you hoped but usually there should be something coming after that moment that's also a laugh. You know what I mean? It's not like that's the one laugh and the thing. So if one thing misses, it's like, all right, well, we got these 15 other things.

So did those all work? Great. Then we'll cut that one thing that didn't work. And that's our sketch. You know, it was really fun to read more about your idols, those you look up to in the industry. All of the favorites, of course, Eddie Murphy and Martin Lawrence and Chris Farley. But it was Bob Newhart that you learned a very important lesson from about work. What did he teach you? He taught me what consistency looked like, know because as creatives we have a tendency to always want fresh or always want new or always want to like switch it up you know in pursuit of topping you know the last person that was on that subject and you know just pushing things forward

which is fine but he also taught me like there is a way to do it where you can like, be a steady adult and be in one place, you know, and like, that is a possibility. It's not necessarily what happens for 90% of us, but you know, it is a possibility. So once I saw that, I was like, oh, I will keep that coin in the back of my pocket for sure. Because that's a very cool thing. Like he spent 14 years, same stage, same dressing room, you know, like the streets now named after him kind of thing. And he lived 10 minutes away on his bicycle in the valley, like before global warming. Like that's a beautiful existence. Right, right.

And now you're doing something similar at SNL for sure. Like, that's a beautiful existence. Right, right. And now you're doing something similar at SNL, for sure. Yeah, you know, like, predictability is not a luxury for actors. So, you know, it's been nice to be able to, you know, be able to at least predict for one year, you know. Yep, yep. It's crazy well you've got this memoir now you and kell are back as a duo and gutberger too um you also toy around but stop short of saying that you might sooner or later leave snl what is the verdict you can give us the scoop i mean the the scoop is unfortunately the same like i, I wish I knew, you know?

Like, I know I'm supposed to be there through the 50th, but that's all I know as far as what they want from me kind of thing. And then what I want at this point, yeah. I mean, I could see myself, like, hanging it up. It's been a long run, you know what I mean? But at the same time, I could also see myself being the guy that never left kind of thing. I don't really know. It's kind of like still a blank canvas, but, you know, it just, it kind of all depends on how it's going with the babies and do they still love New York and am I able to spend enough time with them?

Because SNL is a very demanding schedule. Well, Kenan, I really enjoyed talking to you. Thank you so much for this conversation. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Kenan Thompson's book is called When I Was Your Age, Life Lessons, Funny Stories, and Questionable Parenting Advice from a Professional Clown. Coming up, John Powers reviews a new documentary about one of the world's greatest artists. This is Fresh Air. In the new documentary Anselm, filmmaker Wim Wenders offers a portrait

of the German artist Anselm Kiefer, who became famous for grappling with the violent side of 20th century German history. The film, shot in 3D, opens in New York tomorrow and expands after that. Our critic-at-large John Powers says Anselm takes you inside the work of one of the world's greatest artists. Every now and then you come across an artist, Aretha Franklin, say, or Marlon Brando, who radiates such raw, undeniable force that they feel as immense as the Amazon. One of them is the painter and sculptor

Anselm Kiefer. First time I saw his work in person, its sheer power all but knocked me back against the far wall. Kiefer is the subject of a new movie by Wim Wenders, a filmmaker who's almost his exact contemporary. They were born a few months apart in the war-ravaged Germany of 1945. Because Wenders is himself a figure of considerable gifts, he's won the top prize at Cannes, Venice, and Berlin, this documentary is not a traditional great artist doc. Shot in an astonishingly vivid 6K 3D, which captures art with dazzling clarity, Anselm offers both a thrilling portrait of the artist at work, and with the aid of terrific archival footage, lets us see what infuses his

work with such intensity. The movie begins with a long, gorgeous sequence at La Rebote, Kiefer's studio art installation in the southern French town of Barjac. Wendert's camera moves through, around, and above mysterious white plaster statues of what appear to be brides. Their heads are made of metal or vegetation that are set out among trees and strangely formed buildings. Just as you fear that Vendor's may be indulging his sweet tooth for beautiful imagery, the film begins exploring what gives Kiefer's art its wallop. Kiefer was born into a country buried beneath post-World War II rubble, fostering a lifelong awareness of destruction.

This explains why his paintings so often include actual burnt vegetation, shards of metal, hunks of earth, fragments of clothing. In fascinating scenes, Wenders shows us how the cocky, black-clad, elegantly grizzled 78-year-old artist creates his trademark effects, be it charring straw with flamethrowers like the hero of a Tarantino movie, or fastidiously pouring molten meadow onto canvases with an elaborate contraption operated by an assistant. Yet if Kiefer was shaped by ruin, even more decisive was his country's willful amnesia. He grew up grasping that Germany and its artists weren't confronting the national past that led to World War II and the mass murder of the Holocaust.

Starting in the 1960s, he set about rectifying that failure, from his early photos in which he sardonically shot himself doing the Nazi salute in various European countries, to paintings that deconstruct mythic German heroes, to his staggeringly strong visions of what feel like the interior rooms of the death camps. At once abstract and concrete, his work is all about remembering and re-examining a German tradition filled with pro-Nazi geniuses like Martin Heidegger and heroic witnesses like Paul Celan, whose Holocaust poem, Death Fugue, Kiefer takes as a touchstone. This didn't exactly endear him to his fellow Germans, who were unhappy that he was dredging up the past. Now, Wenders has made many acclaimed fiction features, most famously Paris,

Texas and Wings of Desire. Yet he's also been a generous celebrant of those he admires. He's made documentaries about everyone from the aging Cuban musicians of the Buena Vista Social Club to choreographer Pina Bausch and Pope Francis. His appreciation of Kiefer feels especially personal. Vendris knows that Kiefer's work has tackled head-on subjects that he himself has ignored or only approached at very oblique angles. Focusing on the artist, not the man, the film makes us feel Kiefer's art in all its beauty, bleakness, and moral weight.

Vendors doesn't get into stuff like Kiefer's marriages or discuss how, thanks to the craziness of the art market, he's worth more than a hundred million dollars and can afford to buy tracts of land to build and display his art. He does occasionally dramatize moments from Kiefer's life, and these recreations are the film's one flaw. Not a calamitous one, but hokey and unnecessary. What has always made Kiefer's art necessary is his sure instinct for what's essential In what he calls his protest against forgetting of Germany's dark history He got in early on the themes that people continue to explore In films like the upcoming The Zone of Interest

About a family who live happily outside the barbed wire fences of Auschwitz If you know Kiefer's work, Wenders will show you his artistry in a way you've never before seen it. And if you don't know it, Anselm will make it clear why you should. John Powers reviewed the new documentary Anselm by Wim Wenders. It opens in New York tomorrow

and other cities after that. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Amy Salet, Phyllis Myers, Roberta Shorrock, Sam Brigger, Anne-Marie Baldonado, Lauren Krenzel, Heidi Saman, Thea Chaloner, Seth Kelly, and Susan Nyakundi. Our digital media producer is Molly Seely Nesper. Teresa Madden directed today's show.

For Terry Gross, I'm Tanya Mosley.