Fresh Air - Stephen & Evie Colbert Share The Taste Of Home

Episode Date: December 12, 2024

Late Night host Stephen Colbert and his wife Evie McGee Colbert join Terry Gross to talk about family recipes. They have a new cookbook of South Carolina-inspired dishes called Does This Taste Funny? They also talk about Stephen's harrowing experience with a burst appendix in 2023, meeting the pope, and Evie's role on the show during COVID.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

This is Fresh Air. I'm Terry Gross. My guests are Stephen Colbert and Evie McGee Colbert. They're partners in their marriage as well as in their production company, and she makes regular appearances on his CBS show, The Late Show with Stephen Colbert. During the COVID lockdown, when he hosted The Late Show from their home, she was his partner on the show, acting as a producer, sound engineer, and serving as an audience of one.

I loved hearing her laughing at his jokes. They're typically not partners in the kitchen because they have different approaches to cooking. But now they have a new cookbook they co-authored with the great title, Does This Taste Funny? Recipes Our Family Loves. Shrimp are well represented in the book because Stephen and Evie grew up in coastal South Carolina where they still have a home. Each recipe in

the book is preceded by the story behind it and memories associated with it so you actually learn about Stephen and Evie as you read the recipes. If you watch Colbert's show you know he likes a good drink. The book has a whole chapter on drinks. Each episode of The Late Show opens with a monologue, typically satirizing a major event in the news. Colbert doesn't pull his punches, especially when it comes to threats against democracy. Stephen, Evie, welcome to Fresh Air. It's such a pleasure to have you back on the show, Stephen, and to talk to you, Evie. Thank you. Thanks, Terri. I'm so excited to be here, truly.

It's been too long. Oh, yeah. So, first question to you, Stephen, how do you find time to cook? I can't believe that you find time. I don't have time to cook, and I don't have half the job that you do. I make, like, omelets and heat-roasted chicken. I, I, Evy will tell you, it's relaxing for me. That's what I want to do. You know, on a Saturday

afternoon, if I've got a moment and I've got it to myself, especially if there's a farmers market in town or something like that, I want to go get a pork belly and just start marinating that or start, you know, you know what, I've got some brioche, I've got eggs, I've never done an almond bread pudding before. Let's try that with maybe the crispy top. Ooh, I've got some brioche, I've got eggs, I've never done an almond bread pudding before. Let's try that with me with the crispy top. Ooh, I'll make a cartouche on the top and sort of steam it in a bain-marie first, then I'll take it off. And ooh, what about a bourbon caramel?

Like I get, and I don't, what drives me crazy sometimes is that then I don't eat it. Yeah, you're not cooking to make food for yourself. You're just cooking to make a process. Right, I just, I love process. I love one thing becoming another thing. Well, it's kind of like doing the show. You get there in the morning and there's, I don't know, maybe nine stories that are generally dominating the conversation over the last 24 hours. We have good pitches on six of them and three of them then dominate the monologue because we've

boiled it all down. We've taken, that's why I like the show Chopped because they take, you know, you have these baskets at the beginning of the show where there's like, you have octopus and licorice and you have smoked salt here, make an entree or whatever. That's what doing the show is like. And kind of you have to love process to do a show on a daily basis. And that's related to food for me. One thing becomes another thing with a little care, a little love and a little imagination. And I find it incredibly smoothing. I mean, smoothing. It's also smoothing. It's also bloating. But it's also incredibly soothing to me. And then I'll just try to go give the food away.

So, Evy, if Colbert is doing all this cooking but doesn't eat it, do you get to eat it? And do you do a lot of the cooking that you actually both eat? Well, I do get to eat what he makes, which is often delicious, always. Often? Often. I would say often. Well, I'm experimenting. I'm imagining what it's gonna be like. And you know, things don't always work out, Terri. When I was growing up, my mother wasn't much of a cook, but she had two like fantastic

dishes that she made. I always look forward to those. But Monday nights, I'd almost be in tears, because Mondays are bad enough when you're going to school. And she'd sometimes make broiled mackerel, which is a very bitter fish, especially when you're a kid. Yeah, with canned string beans. Oh, god.

I know. And lettuce with no dressing on it. Sure. Iceberg. And I'd nearly be in tears. Later in the week the food got better. So I'm wondering with each of you, the recipes in your book look absolutely sumptuous,

but were there meals that you had that nearly brought you to tears when you were growing up? Oh my God. Oh yeah. Yes. When I was a kid,. Oh my God, especially, yes. When I was a kid, my, again, 11 kids, and also Catholic, so no meat on Fridays, we had so many Mrs. Paul's or like Gorton's fish sticks,

I think it was Mrs. Paul's fish sticks growing up, and my mother, her idea of making you fancy, and I'm sure she saw this suggestion, the serving suggestion on like on the back of the package with some partnership with Campbell, because it would take a can of Campbell's condensed tomato soup and you would just heat up the condensed soup and ladle that over the fish sticks as the sauce. Oh, no water? You're supposed to add a can of water. No, no, that's if you're making soup, not if you're making a delicious remoulade.

Imagine the salt content. Exactly. Exactly. I'm a creature of pure sodium by the time I was 10. But that also, this is the thing that even I, as a child who just would eat anything you put in front of me, spaghetti with ketchup. Oh, my God. Oh, I had that once at my aunt's house. Oh, my God. We got that all the time. My brothers and sisters loved it. It was horrible. I don't understand what's happening. Oh, my God. Oh, I had that once at my aunt's house. Oh, my God. We got that all the time. My brothers and sisters loved it.

It was horrible. I don't understand what's happening. Oh, my God. But I would, of course, have to eat it. Have you ever had to tears anticipating something your mother was going to serve for dinner? Frequently. Well, yeah. My parents, you know, everything was very local.

So we had, I think a lot of Charlestonians loved this, is shad roe, which is really hard to get. It's, you know, the roe of a shad fish. And I hated that. And it would be steamed with vinegar. They would have that all the time, too. Seasonally. Seasonally, yeah. Yeah.

Stephen, you had appendicitis not too long ago. Yes, I did. Yes, I did. Not only did I have appendicitis, I was dumb enough to do two shows with a burst appendix. Two shows? I thought it was one. It was one night, but we did two shows that night. Oh, no. Yeah. Yes, exactly.

That's how dumb I am. Oh, no. Did you have to change your diet after that? Because the recipes have some pretty rich. He solved it by just having the appendix taken right away. It just popped right out of my body. And no, I didn't really want to eat anything for a long time. It's a great appendicitis is the new ozempic, in my opinion.

No, no, no. Because I lost 17 pounds. I looked pretty hot there for a while. Pale and hot. I looked like a vampire. I have tried to be healthy over the years. I was vegan for seven months. That was fine.

Was that Jon Stewart's influence? No, no, no. I lost a bet with someone, a friend of mine who's a vegan. Since I asked about appendicitis and you did two shows, like did you know what was wrong? Did you realize something really terrible was happening? Here we go. This is this. I'm so glad you asked this question.

My wife wasn't with me. No. I was in New Jersey and he was at the theater and I kept saying, you know, how are you feeling? Because I knew he wasn't with me. No. I was in New Jersey and he was at the theater and I kept saying, you know, how are you feeling? Because I knew he wasn't feeling well. So I'd say, how's it going? And he wouldn't answer my calls. Well, because I couldn't. I couldn't talk. I was in so much pain. I thought I was in digestion of just like the highest possible quality. But it felt like somebody was leaning on a broomstick and just jamming the end of the broomstick into my gut. And as the day

went on, just leaning in a heavier way. And I just the end of the broomstick into my gut. And as the day went on, just leaned in a heavier way. And I just said to my assistant, I said, let, no one can talk to me. I'm just going to go to rehearsal and that's the only time I'm going to talk today. And I had to do rehearsal essentially sitting down and I rewrote the show afterwards lying down on a couch. And I would just hold up my thumb if I approved the joke or thumb down. If I didn't approve the joke, then I would have to talk because I would have to say this is if I approved the joke or thumb down if I didn't approve

the joke then I would have to talk because I would have to say this is how I want to rewrite it. We managed to get through rewriting two shows but between acts of the show I would burst into tears because I was in so much pain. And I never feel sick on stage. I always feel fine because the adrenaline kicks in and there's a relationship with the audience and I've never had it affect me on stage. When I get off, you know, about a half an hour later when the adrenaline's gone, it'll kick in. But this was the first time ever I couldn't actually get through it on stage

and like put it behind me. But I was committed, you know, I had Bradley Cooper on there for Maestro and I had Jose Andres on there and I had lots of other lovely people. And when I got through the show, when all the adrenaline was gone, I started to get a thing called the RIGERS, which is every muscle in your body goes into spasm, which is from blood poisoning. And I just wanted to go to bed. Yeah, this is what he said to me, which is so funny to me. She calls me and goes, you need to go to the hospital. I said, you need to go to the hospital. He said, no, I just want to go home and go to

sleep. And I said, what do you think I can do for you? What do you think I could possibly do for you at home that would make you feel better? Dr. Seheult I think I just need to go to bed. And I have a driver that I've had for many years and you called... Dr. Patrick Kinn Yeah, I bypassed Stephen completely and called Pablo and said, just I'll meet you at the emergency room. Don't even tell him where you're going. Just go to the emergency room. I'll meet you there. He's out of the picture now. He has no voice.

Dr. Seheult And thank God, because at home, we don't go to the emergency room, I'll meet you there. He's out of the picture now, he has no voice. And thank God, because at home we don't have morphine, but at the emergency room they did. Yeah, shout out to nurses, we had great, great nursing care, they were wonderful, really. Evie, you saved his life. Well. Yeah, kinda did.

Or Steven was foolish enough to risk his life, we could look at it that way too. We can look at it both ways. I didn't know that I was dying. Danielle Pletka No, I think you probably thought you had a kidney stone or something like that. Stephen Stirling Yes, that was the level of pain, yeah. Danielle Pletka But you know, you raise children or you just

become a functioning adult sometimes. We know when one's supposed to go to the hospital. Stephen Stirling And also, there's the old, you know, the show must go on. Danielle Pletka Yeah, but, but, but. Exactly, Terry. But, but, Stephen, but. Stephen Stirling But if you say, but, but, but. Exactly, Terry. But, but, Stephen. But. But if you say, but, but, then the show will never go on. That's the wrong attitude. Sometimes you're going to hurt the show by going on.

It was a pretty good show. It was two pretty good shows that night. I gotta say, if you look back, you won't know that I'm dying. And the thing is, is that the show must go on to me is not like, you know, there's someone over you with a whip saying, you must do the show. The show must go on because that's what you do. I've gone on and done shows under terrible conditions and the show always makes it better. And that's why I went on, not because I felt an obligation to the CBS Corporation is because that's what I do. Which you do have though. I do have an obligation to the CBS Corporation and really paramount and very soon David Ellison.

Welcome aboard, David. But I just, that's what makes me feel better. This is, I'm a performer. My default is to go on stage. Did you feel at some point that you were actually close to death? And medically, how close were you? Well, they found out when they finally actually did the MRI, which was at 11, and we got the results at 1 or something like that. They knew it was my appendicitis, and they scheduled me for surgery the next day at 6 a.m. and they didn't think it had burst.

But when I finally came out of it, the first thing the doctor said was, boy, it was a mess in there. Yeah, it had burst and that led to the blood poisoning. Blood poisoning, yeah, sepsis. And it was bad. I don't want to say like I was on death store. But it was the sort of thing that if you don't treat, yes, that it's the worst that will happen. Well, thank God for good medical care, right? Because we had great care and we got you, we had to go every day for antibiotics for a long time. Like 21 days. It was so bad. I had like this neutron bomb drip to try to wipe it out because

it was in my bloodstream. And again, can we get back to the morphine for a second? Because I was so shaking. I was in so much pain, like I could not communicate at all. Like I couldn't speak because my teeth were also chattering because of the blood poisoning causes spasms all over your body. And I got that line in me. That morphine drip in that... She had been asking, the nurse had been asking all kinds of questions. When was the last time you did this? What about this? And you were just like, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. And then she said, okay, we're going to give you a little morphine. You're like, really? Okay,

fine, if you think that's necessary, you know. And then not 30 seconds later, Steven looks over to the nurse. He's like, hi, what's your story? Listen, I think her name was Nancy. Nancy, what's your story? And Nancy looks at me, you know, I'm afraid you're not the first person who's had morphine love for Nancy. And she looked at me with this laughing eyes. She's like, oh, I see. I think the morphine's acting. I think you're feeling better. I'm like, what are you talking about? I just want to know what Nancy's story is. She seems like a nice person. So Nancy, are you from around here?

Evie, were you ever worried that he was going to die? I don't think that he was going to die. I was worried that he could be sick for a very, very long time. You know, I was just worried that if it really turned into sepsis and, you know, that there could be catastrophic impacts of that. So, I guess I was worried for a while there. Yeah. I wasn't worried until later guess I was worried for a while there. Yeah. I wasn't worried until later when I found out how bad it was.

Well, a lot of things, like a lot of things that happen in life, you learn a lot on the fly, right? I didn't know much about that, but we have friends, we had a lot of people I called and said, what do you think, what do you think? I got a lot of great advice. We got, as I said, wonderful medical care. And you sort of immediately learn how scary things can become so quickly, you know? I think we take our health for, I know I take my health for granted a lot. And you know, we're all just one bad thing away from something happening, right? Have a great show, everybody. At any moment, Terry.

Your appendix could burst. You could be gone. Any second. You grew up very close to each other, maybe a block away, I think you said? One street away. Yeah. One street away. But you didn't know each other until you met, like, after you'd moved away from home, after each of you had moved away from home.

And you met at a music festival, the Spoleto Festival in Charleston in 1990. And, Evie, you lived next door to a theater, where I guess some of the performances were at the music festival. And I guess, Stephen, you lived a block away. And both places became homes where the musicians hung out. Evie, your mother used to cook for the musicians a lot. That's right. But I'm wondering if being so close to a theater and meeting people who performed in the theater

made you each feel like acting, show business was an attainable idea. Absolutely. Absolutely, for me. So we lived next door to the Dock Street Theater in Charleston when I was a little girl, and I took acting classes all through my sort of middle school, high school years, and I did a lot of community theater. And I was already doing a lot of acting, but I'd never thought, oh, I could maybe think about doing this until I met people who were professional actors at the Spoleto Festival. You know, it changed my perspective of what a life in the Spoleto Festival. You know, it changed my perspective of what

a life in the arts could be like. And I hadn't done any acting and performing of any kind really. And I secretly wanted to. I sort of came from my mother who had trained to be an actress. But my senior year, I finally auditioned for something and I got in a couple of plays at school. And the Spoleto Festival was bringing a play by Giancarlo Manotti to Charl a couple of plays at school. And the Spoleto Festival was bringing a play by Giancarlo Manotti to Charleston called The Leper. And there was a role for a teenage boy and that boy had been cast out of New York and he had dropped out last minute for reasons I don't know. And they called my choir director, Ben Huddo,

at school and said, do you know anybody who might be right for this part? Send them over to audition. And he said, you should go over and you did a good job in Annie Get Your Gun or whatever I had done. Because you should go over there. And I auditioned for Mastromenati and these professionals from New York, and I got the job. And somebody in the company said, you're good, you could do this if you wanted to. And I husbanded that knowledge for the next two years. Because then I went off to college and I was a philosophy major for the next two years.

And then two years in I went, you know, I actually, I wanna go do that. And so that's why I transferred to Northwestern University's theater school. But it made a huge difference in my life, besides the fact that my mother also threw parties and that sort of thing, and I got to meet the artists and the actors and the dancers and the opera singers. My mother and I used to be super numeraries in the opera, where we'd go in there and dress

up. I'd be a spear carrier for Anthony and Cleopatra or something. But that exposure and just someone giving you any encouragement, that just little spark saying you are good at something. I can remember being at a Spoleto performance and Merce Cunningham came out on stage. I think John Cage had done the music and Merce Cunningham was dancing, but he was really old at this point and he stood center stage and sort of like

moved his arm around and people in the audience started booing. And I thought it was fantastic. I was like, not only do I find what he's doing interesting, but I love that the audience hates it. Because it was such an, it felt so guttural, you know? They were just like, no, I don't want you to do that. And this kind of interaction between an artist and the audience. And he maintains his intention.

He keeps going. And it was just, it was a really interesting example of art. And just react to it the way you want to react to it, you know? Yeah. Evie, are there things you had to sacrifice in your life when Steven became famous and had this kind of consuming career and you had children. Wow. Yeah, yeah, I think so. I mean, I decided it was, listen, I think I'm incredibly lucky to have been able to be home with our children. But Stephen's hours were really long and difficult and I felt that I just wanted to be home with them when I could. So I ended up spending a lot of my time as a stay-at-home mother, which I had never expected to do.

And it was real privilege. Yeah, I think there were sacrifices. I had trained to be an actress and I decided not to be an actress even before we got married. But then later in life, I had opportunities to do some performing, which I chose frequently not to do because it would take me out of town and I felt that our family needed somebody at home. I mean, I don't in any way want to suggest I ever felt cheated because it was such a privilege to be able to have the life I had. I feel incredibly lucky that I was with my children and that, I mean, even though Stephen had a busy job,

he wasn't gone, he just came home late. So we were always together as a family. And in show business, that's super unusual, you know? So I think we've had an incredibly lucky time, frankly, very blessed. I can't speak to your experience because that's your experience, but certainly for the business that I'm in, this is one of the more normative jobs you can have, because you know where you're going and you know when you're coming home. And the hours may be long, but at least you can plan your life.

Right. Then you're going to be home. I mean, you're not traveling to different locations. I'm not in Sarajevo shooting Game of Thrones, unless they want to cast me. And then to hell with all of this TV stuff, I'm a star. Danielle Pletka Yeah. The family.

Jared O'Reilly Yeah. Danielle Pletka I had someone say to me once, Terry, that I think is so funny. I guess you'd been doing the Colbert pour for a year or two, Stephen, and I was chairing a book fair in our kid's school. And there was an author who said that she wanted to meet me because I was Stephen's wife. And I remember saying to my friend, my life is just getting really weird. This is just weird. And she turned to me and said, the life you ordered has arrived.

And I thought it was such a funny way, but it is true. It all comes as a package, right? If you want to be a performer or if you want to be an artist and with fame comes attention, comes opportunity, but also comes sacrifice of some way. The thing is sometimes when you're married to somebody who's famous and is in the public eye and very recognizable, people want to meet the famous person and look right past the spouse. Yeah. It's like the spouse doesn't really exist. Oh, yeah. That's a real thing. and very recognizable. People want to meet the famous person and look right past the

spouse. It's like the spouse doesn't really exist. Oh yeah. That's a real thing. That's a real thing. And that's hard to deal with. Yeah. Yeah, it is hard to deal with. Except now it's Evie they want to meet. Well, that's the thing, Evie. Like now you have a couple of personas. Honest to God, people go, you're nice and everything, but I love her.

Oh, that's funny. We need to take another short break here. So let me reintroduce you. If you're just joining us, my guests are Stephen Colbert and Evie McGee Colbert. They co-wrote a new cookbook called Does This Taste Funny? Recipes Our Family Loves. We'll be right back. This is Fresh Air.

You're both from prominent families. Stephen, your father died when you were 10. But before that, he'd been a director of a program at the National Institute of Allergy and Infections Diseases, and he worked at the National Institutes of Health. And then the family moved to South Carolina, and he became the first vice president for academic

affairs at the Medical University of South Carolina. That was in 1969. And, Evie, your father was a prominent civil litigator. He served in the South Carolina House of Representatives for three terms. He was a Democrat. that because your fathers were prominent, were you expected to be model children? Huh. Oh, that's interesting.

Yeah. I don't think because our...or I'll just speak for me. I don't think because of who my father was, was I expected to be a model child. I think the same...I mean, first of all, I think we were all 11 children in the family. I think we were all held to the same standard. I think I had a slightly different relationship with my dad than my other brothers and sisters did because I was the last. They used to say, I can't believe dad took you to the carnival. Like, dad hates carnivals. Or I can't believe dad went to the beach with you, or something like that. But my father

had a sense that, you know, this is his last bite at the apple. And to do those fatherly things with me. Because my father died when I was young, it's not so much I was held to a standard that I had to match him, is that when your parent dies when you're young, they become Olympian, or there's something much larger than life, which of course is how a child sees their parent, but you never get to move beyond that. So as you get older, they also get larger. So as your view of the world or what you believe is asked of you to be an adult,

at least for me, my father inflated ahead of me and became even grander in a way. And so if there was any standard placed on me, it was placed on me by myself. My mother was not asking me to be a certain person because of who my father was. I did it to myself because of the person I perceived my father to be. And I actually don't think I'm very far off. I think he was an extraordinary man. But I think that's self-imposed on my part. Danielle Pletka And probably on mine too, actually. I mean, I was lucky enough to have had my father for

a long time. He just passed away this past April. And at his funeral, when I delivered the eulogy, I mentioned how as a little girl, I used to like to put my feet in my father's footprints on the sand. And I think metaphorically, that's how I felt about him. I admired my father so much that I always wanted to try to live up to be the person he was. And the same for my mother. I hit the jackpot with my parents. I really loved them. And I think for me, it wasn't being a model child. It was being a person who cared about the community that they lived in and gave of themselves and their time to make the world a better

place in whatever way they could. And my parents were both selfless, community active. They did a lot in the town of Charleston. And for me, because I wanted to know my father, even though I was robbed of that ability to move beyond the childhood view of him, because I wanted to know him, I grabbed onto the little things that I did know about him. For instance, my father's idea of fun was to read philosophy. He really would enjoy sitting down with Jacques Maritain or Léon Blois or other French Christian humanists. And so, that's what I read. I read a lot of books. I knew that he had lived a life of the mind, so that's what I wanted to do. It was important

to be smart. My father was a dean, an assistant dean at Yale Medical when he was 29. He was a full dean at 31 at St. Louis. And so, he was this academic superstar, which I never was, but he was this academic superstar and a deep thinker. And I aspired for that in hopes of knowing him. And often it was religiously based, you know. He was Jesuit educated and my mother and my father both profoundly dedicated to their Catholic faith in different ways. My father more intellectually and my mother more sort of mystically in a way, though she also read a great deal, but more Dorothy Day. And I think I was most influenced by the little bit I knew that I used as a thread to pull on to try to understand him.

How do you think TV has changed since you started working on The Daily Show? What year was that? I think it was spring of 97. So what is that? 27, 28 years. And TV is a completely different, if you count streaming, it's a completely different place than it was. And, you know, networks are losing viewers, streamers are losing viewers, YouTube is gaining viewers. So, it's a whole different world. And how has that affected you and your career? Hmm. Well, what I do is a little odd.

And the shows that I've been involved in are a little odd. They're a little bit outside of the normal title shifts of the rest of the industry, I think. People often say like, oh, do you have a lot of famous friends? Like, no, because I've kind of worked the same place. You really become friends with other people when you do a whole bunch of different projects. But over the last 25 years, I've done three projects, essentially. I've worked on The Daily Show, I've done The Colbert Report, I've done The Late Show. And there have been a few side things, but those have been my career over

the last 25 years, which is a pretty long time to be working essentially without a break. And those kind of shows still flourish, generally speaking, relative to the rest of the industry live same day. And I'm not saying viewership hasn't gone down for TV, but things like sports, news, and late-night shows, which are kind of dependent upon watching it that day, because they're like unrefrigerated shrimp, they're no good tomorrow. So they still have like a, what was it called, like an appointment audience on a daily basis. So what I do right now, the Late Show, and you and I have never, I don't think we've ever spoken about the Late Show, Terry, but one of the things that I discovered when I

did it... That is definitely not true. Oh, do I? Have we spoken in the last 10 years? You're kidding me, right? Well, here's the thing, Terry. That is definitely not true. Oh, do I have we spoke? Have we spoken in the last 10 years? You're kidding me, right? Well, here's the thing, Terry. I miss you so much. It feels like even a day feels like 10 years.

I apologize. I feel terrible. I don't know why I felt that way. Do I know you? I don't know. I'm sorry. That's my brain these days. But this isn't my first time.

It is. That's why. No, I please accept my apologies. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry I don't know. I'm sorry. That's my brain these days. This is my first time. It is. That's why. Please accept my apology. But I guess the reason why is I don't think we ever discussed this part of it, which is when I took this job, I originally thought, oh, I want to do this different than anyone's ever done it before.

The same way that when I did the Colbert report, I wanted to do this different than anyone's ever done it before. The same way that when I did the Colbert report, I wanted to do something nobody had done before. And besides trying to find your feet when you're first starting a show like that, I eventually realized, oh, I actually like the form that preexists. And I just have to fill it with my wine. You know, it's an old bottle. I just have to fill it with my wine. And that is, to answer your question, I live in such an old medium, in such an old stadium, which is CBS, in an old theater, which is the Ed Sullivan.

And I'm doing a form that has still got literally an old audience, but also an audience that is coming for an old reason, which is this thing happened today and we're making jokes about it. So, yeah, TV has changed enormously. And I think that it's highly likely that cable will go away completely because streaming now fills that position. If you want something specific, you don't need to go to A&E or Comedy Central or BET, like all of that exists in a very siloed and very specific way in various apps. So I think there's going to be an enormous change which has been coming slowly and I think it will come quite rapidly. You see how NBC or Comcast has decided to sell off all their cable assets.

I think that's a harbinger of what's to come. But strangely, CBS is doing really well. Like, the network is doing really well. So, while I perceive it in the landscape, oddly, there's a little bit of dry land left. Even though the audience isn't what it was for like Johnny Carson, there's an odd stability in our little pocket of the business. If you're just joining us, my guests are Stephen Colbert and Evie McGee Colbert. They wrote a new book together called Does This Taste Funny? Recipes Our Family Loves. We'll be right back. This is Fresh Air. Stephen, I've known about your deep faith and Catholicism

since the Daily Show when you were kind of like the religion correspondent and you had a regular feature called This Week in God. Pete Slauson This is the God Machine. Pete Slauson Yes. And you know, you still, you know, talk about religion on the Late Show. And you satirize religion, you satirize Catholicism, you satirize the Pope. So I was really surprised when the Pope invited you to the Vatican as part of a larger event. I don't remember what the event was, but Jim Gaffigan was there. I think David Sedaris was there. Matthew 10 Sure, Conan was there. Jimmy Fallon was there. Danielle Pletka Yeah.

Matthew 10 Chris Rock was there. Danielle Pletka What was this about? Matthew 10 Well, first, if I could just back up just slightly here, I'm willing to talk about my own faith if my guest asks me about it. I don't like to proselytize. And I'll make any jokes about the Catholic Church. You know, they deserve a lot of them. And I am deeply Catholic in that it is combed into my being, but I don't know how deeply devout I am.

I know people who are really deeply devout and I wouldn't want to put myself in their league. I just am in integrally Catholic, if you know what I mean. And I do love my church, and I still go to church, and I do have a faith. I just don't want to confuse myself with someone who is a very devoted Catholic, a devout, I mean. But I have become friends with Father Jim Martin over the years, who's sort of like the Broadway priest in New York, and he's the editor of America Magazine, and he was the chaplain of the Colbert Report on the old show. Danielle Pletka I remember.

Michael O'Brien And we've become dear friends over the years. And he just wrote me one day, actually got the email right before I went on stage at the late show one night saying, hey, the Vatican has asked me to put together a list of like 20 comedians because the Pope wants to meet with some comedians, would you mind helping with that? And I was like, yeah, sure. So I put a list together of 40 comedians. They sent me back a list of 15 or 20, something like that.

Like they'd made their selects of my selects and with a list of 15 or 20, something like that, like they'd made their selects of my selects and with a few of their own. And Jim Gaffigan and I called everybody on the list and we said, hey, we don't really know what this is about, but the pope wants to meet comedians because he thinks that comedians do something valuable in society and he just wants to meet us. Now, I thought we were going to go to Rome and like hang with the pope. I don't know why I thought that. I thought that maybe we'd like sit there and we'd have coffee or tea with the Pope and he would ask us some questions, then we would get a photo and leave. It turns out that these were comedians from all over the world. It was like from 60 countries.

And the Pope had a meeting in the Apostolic Palace with us. There was, I think, altogether was like 110 comedians and we all didn't know what was going on. And we all sat there and the pope came in and he gave a beautiful speech about comedy that we did not understand at all, that we read later. That was about how- Because it was in Italian? It was in Solamente in Italiano. And it was about how comedy, I think, eases people's day and it is like the social lubricant, and it's okay to make fun of God and the church and the pope and all that kind of stuff, as

long as, like, you do it with a smile and there's some intention to make people feel better. And what struck me was... It's like your philosophy. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I would like to think so. And what struck me is that we're in this room, which is about the size of the Sistine Chapel, and it which is about the size of the Sistine Chapel. And it's actually just down the hall from the Sistine Chapel. And it's more Rococo than it is, you know, late Renaissance.

But it's beautiful. It's like you're in another Sistine Chapel. And we're all sitting there in our Sunday best, as it were, waiting for the Pope to come in. But comedians are all iconoclasts. We're all people who have a pretty jaundiced view of authority. And I know that some of the people there weren't Catholic or weren't meaningfully Catholic, at least by their own description anymore. And the minute the Pope

came in, we all leapt to our feet. Like the iconoclasm went out the door. We all just leapt to our feet and started plotting and like screaming. I thought, wow, that's the effect the Pope has on 110 comedians. Like it was almost like an autonomic response because you've spent all this, it's like the location, it's the red shoes, it's the white outfit, it's all like the guys with the sashes around you, the Pope's gentlemen who all look like butlers and everything. I was sort of shocked that we all kind of gave into it immediately. Danielle Pletka Did you get to meet the Pope one on one?

Stephen Kupryk I did, I did. I memorized something in Italian. I went up and I said, you know, Sancte Padre, you know, Holy Father, my name is Stephen Colbert, and I am the reciting, I'm the Revoce Recitante, I'm the reciting voice for your memoir life, because he had released a memoir of his life in the spring. And I had gotten a call from my manager to say, baby doll, you're not gonna believe who wants you to do their audio book. And I'm like, who? And he goes, just guess. I'm like, I don't know. Barbara Streisand. No. And he goes, the f***ing pope. And I go, does it pay? And he goes, you better believe.

So anyway, so he negotiates with the Vatican for my contract. And I read the pope, so I just said, I read your book. You know, I thank so much. I was reciting a voice for your book. And he said, ah, and I kind of used his hand to guide me to the side. So, that was it. That's all I got. It wasn't that, it was very nice. And he gave me a rosary. We all got rosaries blessed by the Pope. Danielle Pletka I mean, did you grow up Catholic and was your family religious? Dr. Amy K. Hickman I grew up Presbyterian. And we were religious, but decidedly not Catholic.

Marc Thiessen Exactly. One of the hallmarks of Presbyterian is we are not Catholic. Dr. Amy K. Hickman We are not Catholic. You know, my family, I think it's a Protestant thing maybe. Church was an event, right? We had to all get dressed up every Sunday and it was a social event and all of that. And as I got older, I sort of moved away from that aspect of my faith, you know? But I still consider my faith a very strong part of my life. And we raised our children in the Catholic Church. So I've been going to the Catholic Church since we've been married. But I never have become Catholic, so I'm still Presbyterian. Did it matter to either of you that you were

both of the Christian faith, but of different denominations? Matthew Sosnowski Well, I will miss Evie in heaven. Danielle Pletka I was nervous about Stephen's mother because of all 11 children, I'm the only spouse who did not convert to Catholicism. But you're the baby, and I think she let you get away with it. Well, I also didn't ask you to. You didn't ask you to. I didn't ask you to.

Yeah. And I remember when I told my mom I was gonna ask Evie to marry me, I had told my mom the night before, that I was gonna ask Evie to marry me the next day, and I said, and I'm not gonna ask her to convert. And she looked at me for a while and she goes, I think your dad would be okay with that, which was a big thing for her to say. And I love my church and I love Evy's church too. There are priests in Chicago, a guy named Father Jack Wall who's a wonderful priest in Chicago. He used to be at Old St. Pat's.

I don't know where Wall is now. But he said, you know, you're gonna have to be a Presby Catholic and you're gonna have to become a Catholicarian. Right. And I have, you know. I read Protestant theologians as well. Right. have, you know? I read Protestant theologians as well. And all I care is that our children have a relationship that feeds them in ways that my ancestors gave me. Danielle Pletka If you're just joining us, my guests are Stephen Colbert and Evie McGee Colbert. They wrote a new book together called Does This Taste

Funny? Recipes Our Family Loves. We'll be right back. This is Fresh Air. I'd like you each to leave us with your favorite comfort food. Hmm. Well, most of the book is comfort food. It is. There's a lot of butter. Yeah. Oh, I don't know. I mean, my favorite recipe in the book is the one that we start with my mother's cheese

biscuits because those were things that she made always. And so now when I make them, I feel like she's with me and it makes, it's comforting. And I love them. They're wonderful to give and they're delicious and fattening. I think comfort food should be fattening. I think comfort food should be fattening. Matthew Feeney I got so many in there. It's probably the red rice, you know, growing up on the coast of South Carolina, just anywhere in the south, there's so much red rice. And it has its roots in jolaf rice of West Africa. But it's super jammy and a little spicy and salty. And I had it almost every day growing up at

Styles Point Elementary School on Michael Drive on James Island, South Carolina, which is still there. And there were just barrels of it being cooked every day by those lunch ladies. And I never got tired of it. And right before this book, I actually found a way to make it based on an Alison Roman recipe that I said, oh, that sauce she's making for the pasta actually has the flavor I remember as a child from this red rice. And I tried it and it worked. And that was, that discovery of being able to get that flavor back from my childhood, those carefree years is what that rice gives me. When you say carefree years, do you mean before your father died?

Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, taste is powerful. It's true. Sm taste is powerful. It's true. Smell is powerful. I think we both enjoyed that rediscovery of recipes that we'd grown up with, which we, you know, we maybe had, you know, made them in our adulthood, but not really spent time with them

the way we spent time with them writing this book. And that's what COVID did. We were back there in Charleston on that island with our families, with the people who had taught us to make these and made these for us as when we were children, and with those ingredients from that field and that creek. And it was a terrible time that had in it this gift to us for us to slow down, go home, and remember. And also working, it sounds like working together so closely on the show worked out okay. Which we had been so afraid to do, or at least I had been afraid to do, because I was so nervous the first time Evie was on that she wouldn't have a good time. It's actually made it to air. Her going, oh my God, you're like, you're trembling.

I'm like, I'm afraid this is going to be a bad experience for you because I'm bossy. No, no, no. But we have had fun. You know, and this whole process has been a lot of fun. And an enormous amount of work, and I just could not be more, I could not have more admiration for the people who do this for a living because we had no idea what a huge undertaking is to do. A lot of detail in a cookbook. Oh my God, three years to do this.

You have to be right about whether it's a teaspoon or a tablespoon. You really do. It makes a difference. Were your recipes fact-checked? Yes, by a lot of people. Six ways to Sunday. It went through us, we'd make it many times, and then through our niece Lucy. Our niece Lucy Wickman was fabulous. She helped test it everything. Marc Thiessen And then all of that would go on to Chris

Styler, who was a professional test kitchen, essentially. And he would say, is this what it's supposed to look and taste like? And we'd go, no. And then he would say, then you need to rewrite this recipe. Danielle Pletka And you know, sometimes there were mistakes that, you know, we only caught at the last minute. I think it was last Thanksgiving, Stephen, I asked any one of our children to make one of the pies in the cookbook. Well, they had to make everything because I had a ruptured appendix. Oh, that's right. We were in the hospital. That's right. So the kids saved Thanksgiving

last year completely. They made everything. But one of this pie recipe that was my mother's recipe for a chocolate pecan pie came out wrong. And I looked at it and I was like, that's why. That's too much flour. And they said, well, we used the recipe that you gave us, which I just sent them, and that had too much flour. And we had to go back and change it. We had to go through and read every recipe again. Yeah, it was scary. We thought what else could have gotten wrong.

So we had to go back and look at everything again. You know, I hadn't thought about this, that Stephen, you were trying to recover from appendicitis and not having any appetite, not really wanting to eat. But still you had to like probably reread the recipes and memories of food and how delicious food is and meanwhile you have no appetite. Yes.

That's true. Yeah. Yeah. We managed. Well, the book definitely survived that. It's very entertaining. I don't cook fancy things or ambitious things, but I enjoyed seeing the recipes. I enjoyed all the anecdotes.

So I'm so glad we got to talk. Thank you. Oh, this has been lovely. I'm so glad to talk to you after 10 years. I remember, Stephen, I don't know where that comes from. I love talking to you so much that I guess I felt like I've been denied or something like that. Well, I remember the first time I was listening when you and Terry had your first conversation and when you came to this point of the interview, Stephen said, Terry, I've been thinking so

long about how I would say thank you. Oh, I remember that. We're like, this has been so wonderful. I really enjoyed it. Thank you so much. Exactly. So I feel like that myself right now. Thank you so much, Terry.

This has been such a wonderful experience. Stephen Colbert and Evie McGee Colbert have a new book called Does This Taste Funny? Recipes Our Family Loves. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Roberta Shorrock, Anne Marie Boldenado, Sam Brigger, Lauren Krenzel, Theresa Madden, Monique Nazareth, Susan Yakundi, and Anna Bauman.

Our digital media producer is Molly Sivinesper. Thea Challener directed today's show. Our co-host is Tanya Mosley. I'm Terry Gross.