Fresh Air - Taraji P. Henson / Pianist Brad Mehldau

Episode Date: December 30, 2023

Taraji P. Henson stars as jazz singer Shug Avery in the new musical adaptation of The Color Purple. She spoke with Tonya Mosley about what the play means to her. Also, we'll hear from Brad Mehldau, one of the most acclaimed and influential jazz pianists of his generation. He joins us at the piano, for music and conversation. And Justin Chang will share his list of the best movies of 2023.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

From WHYY in Philadelphia, this is Fresh Air Weekend. I'm Sam Brigger, in for Terry Gross. Today, actress Taraji P. Henson. She's playing jazz singer Suge Avery in the new musical adaptation of The Color Purple. When Oprah called to tell her she got the part, Taraji was at home, ignoring her phone. Then she noticed she'd had a bunch of missed calls from Tyler Perry, who she called back. And I called him back, and he's like, are you answering your phone? And I was like, no, why? What's up? What's going on?

And he was like, Oprah's trying to call you. And I was like, oh, bye. So she left the voice note and I got the voice note and I started trembling. Also, we'll hear from Brad Meldow, one of the most acclaimed and influential jazz pianists of his generation. He joins us at the piano for music and conversation. And Justin Chang will share his list of the best movies of the year. That's all coming up on Fresh Air Weekend. This is Fresh Air Weekend. I'm Sam Brigger in for Terry Gross. The film adaptation of the musical The Color Purple is now out in theaters, and for award-winning actress Taraji P. Henson, starring in the American classic is a full-circle moment.

Henson first saw Steven Spielberg's film version as a high schooler in D.C. and knew from then on that she wanted to be an actor. I just remember going to the movie seeing all of those black people on the screen, and I was like, oh my God, I really want to do that. The Color Purple, which was first a Pulitzer Prize-winning novel written by Alice Walker in 1982, tells the tale of the lifelong struggles of Celie, an African-American woman living in the South during the early 1900s,

and the sisterhood of three women. Henson stars as Suge Avery, a jazz singer who becomes a confidant of the main character Celie, played by Fantasia Barrino. In addition to the book and the film, The Color Purple also ran as a Broadway musical in 2005 and in 2015, garnering two Tony Awards. This latest film adaptation features an ensemble cast that includes Danielle Brooks, Coleman Domingo, Sierra, Ingenue Ellis, John Batiste, Louis Gossett Jr., and David Alan Greer. Henson has starred in many movies, including The Curious Case of Benjamin Button, for which she was nominated for an Academy Award. Other movies include Hidden Figures, John Singleton's 2001 film Baby Boy,

and the 2005 film Hustle and Flow. Henson is also known for taking on the role of Cookie Lyons, the wife of a former drug dealer turned hip-hop mogul on the TV series Empire. Taraji Henson spoke with Fresh Air's Tanya Mosley earlier this month. Taraji P. Henson, welcome to Fresh Air. Thanks for having me.

We get to hear you sing in this film. I mean, you really sing. Thank you. I want to play a clip of you belting it out. You play the singer Suge Avery singing the iconic song, Push the Button. And to set the scene, you're entertaining a packed club, wearing a red sequined showgirl outfit, matching headpiece and a fur stall,

and you are commanding the crowd. Let's listen. Now there's something about good loving That all you ladies should know. If you want to light your man on fire, you got to start it real slow. Keep on turning up the voltage till that man begin to glow. Like you're switching on a light bulb. Watch the juice begin to flow.

Now that I've got your attention, here's what you'll need to hear. You want your lady racing with you, you got to get her in gear. That was Taraji P. Henson as Suge Avery in the new film adaptation of the musical The Color Purple. Taraji, you sound so good. Thank you. Thank you so much. Lots of practice. I mean, people should know that you were initially afraid of this role, specifically the singing? For sure. I was tapped to play her on Broadway, and I just knew that my voice would not withstand eight shows a week singing at that capacity. So I turned down. And then as fate would have it, she came back to get me. So what is the process of conditioning your voice for a role like this? Because I would guess you have to really reach down because you're acting in the singing.

Yeah, I'm a good storyteller. So, you know, that's what makes me the singer I am because I really, you know, for me, it's about telling the story. And so, you know, I know that about me. And my vocal coach, Stevie Mackey, just kept reminding me of that and anytime when I even got down to you know production and we were in the studio and Stephen Bray would just be like just make her shug and then the note would come out you know so for me it's it's not just about the notes it's also the storytelling so but I worked with Stevie Mackey for about two months before I even got down to set in Atlanta because I wanted

the music to be in me. I wanted it to be in me. I didn't want to have to think about it because I knew once we got down to Atlanta and started rehearsals, we would then have to add the layer of choreography. So I didn't want to be thinking about the words and the steps, you know? Right, right, right. That's a lot to think about. How would you describe Suge? I mean, Suge is a performer. She, you know, that's how she lives. She lives through this big personality and she's a change maker. She's the one who's the dreamer, who left the plantation when all the slaves were freed and was like, I'm going to make something of myself. And so, yeah, I mean, you know, she's just different from all the other women. She don't live under a thumb. She had children. She left those babies behind to make her

dream come true. And even though Sophia is very strong, she stayed with the family. You know, she stayed with raising her kids and, you know, being a wife. And Suge was like, yeah, I'm not doing none of that. Right, right. Sophia being one of the principal characters. Yes, played by incredible Danielle Brooks, who just got a Golden Globe nomination. I'm very proud of her and Fantasia's work. Oprah is the one who first called you to tell you you got the role.

And Taraji, is it true I heard that you didn't answer the call at first? Well, it's not that I didn't answer. I have a habit of leaving my phone. When I'm home, I like to enjoy home. So when I'm home, work is over there somewhere. And so I finally checked my phone and I saw it was buzzing and I had all these missed calls and texts. And it was Tyler Perry that I called back because I was like, Tyler's been trying to call me. And I called him back. He's like, are you answering your phone? And I was like, no. Why?

What's up? What's going on? And he was like, Oprah's trying to call you. And I was like, oh, bye. So she left the voice note and I got the voice note and I started trembling. And she left her number and I called her back. And she was like, Sugar Avery's coming to town. And then she said to Raji, it was unanimous.

And I just wanted to pass out. Wow. It was unanimous. Because I'm also thinking about how you describe the character Shug Avery. In a way, it sounds a lot like you. Well, you know, I see this woman who people judge by her lifestyle that she chooses to live. And I just want to give her a voice and I want her to be opposite of what these people are saying about her. You know, she's a whole, she's a loose woman. She'll take your man. She'll do this. She'll do that. And the third,

well, even her performing and hiding behind this big persona is a defense mechanism. You know, this is her covering up what no one sees in her, and that's that sweet tenderness. And the only person that sees her is Celie, and that's the only person who was able to tap into that real tender, sweet, unconditional love that dwells within her. No man she's ever laid with could do it, was able to see it. Even all the fans that she get up on that stage and pour all of herself and soul into, no one really sees her. They sexualize her. They fantasize about her. She's a myth. She's a fairy. This relationship between your character, Suge, and Fantasia Barrino's character, Celie, is such an important one.

For Celie, who's the main character to understand who she is and what she's capable of. I want to play this clip. It's the two of you walking through a field of wildflowers, and you're talking about life. And Shug talks first. Let's listen. Would you look at all of God's beautiful creation. You know God loves admiration. You saying God is vain?

No, not vain, Miss Sealy. God just wants to share a good thing. You see, I think it pisses God off if you walk past the color purple and not notice it. You saying God wants to be loved like they say in the Bible? No, everything and everybody wants to be loved. Especially God. That's why God

be in everything. And see, when you love what God has made, you is loving God and God is loving you. You see, God is in music, in the water, in the sunlight. God be, he be as big as the sun, yet small enough to fit in all our hearts.

That was a scene from the new film adaptation of the musical The Color Purple, and I'm talking with Taraji P. Henson, who stars as Suge Avery. Well, it goes without saying that The Color Purple, it's really considered an American masterpiece, especially for Black people. It was a Pulitzer Prize-winning book, as we know,

a Steven Spielberg film, an iconic musical, and now this film adaptation to the musical. What did the story mean to you growing up? I just remember going to the movies and seeing, I went to a public school, so we didn't have the book. But I just remember going to the movies, seeing all of those black people on the screen. And I was like, oh, my God, I want to do that. I really want to do that. Because I didn't get accepted to the High School of Fine Arts.

So it just never died in me, that urge and that want to be on the screen or to be an actress. And that just kind of like really solidified me wanting to pursue my dreams for sure. Wow. How old were you about then? I was 15. Was there a particular character that you most identified with back then? I saw myself in all of those women, for sure I did. Because if you think about my career, I played Celie. My Celie was Suge in Hustle and Flow. I played Sophia before. You know what I mean? Cookie is a Sophia in a way.

From Empire. Yeah, Cookie from Empire. she didn't take no mess from no man. You know, so I saw myself in all of these women because I've been every woman in my life as a black woman, for sure. Blitz Basawule, it is a more joyous adaptation. It's more joyous than the 1985 film. It's completely different. But it is especially clear in this rendition, the depth of sisterhood between each character and how they represent different variations of Black womanhood. So we have Fantasia, as I mentioned, as Celie, Sophia played by Danielle Brooks, her as Squeak, Holly Bailey as Nettie. That is a lot of woman power. What was the set like? A lot of fun. Lots of fun.

So if you've been watching us on this press tour and you see the joy, it's very real. You know, we made sure, particularly me, I made sure to make sure we laughed on set because I know we were dealing with such a heavy subject matter. And, you know, this being Fantasia's first feature role and, you know, all of the things that Celie had to carry, I kind of watched her closely. And if, you know, there was a moment where we could insert some joy and she didn't need to stay in that dark place for the next take, I was there to surely, you know, there was a moment where we could insert some joy and she didn't need to stay in that dark place for the next take. I was there to surely, you know, lift the mood and let her live a little bit and breathe in between those takes, you know. I think you said like living between the takes.

Living between the takes. Yeah, you have to. And that's how I've trained myself, my instrument, because, you know, I became a mother early on. I was a mother when I showed up to Hollywood. So whenever I would go to work, I had to leave it on the set because when I got home, it was homework. It was time to do homework. It was time to eat and take a bath and say our prayers and read a book and get the uniform. You know, I had to be, you know, stay on top of my motherly duties.

So I couldn't take my work home. And years and years and years after doing that, I'm just trained to, like, literally, I can be bawling my eyes out in between the take and they'll yell, cut. And I'll wipe the tears and tell you about, oh, yeah, I'll pick up the story we were talking about before they yelled action. We're listening to Tanya Mosley's interview with Taraji P. Henson. She stars as Suge Avery in the new film adaptation of The Color Purple. We'll hear more of their conversation after a break, and film critic Justin Chang will share his list of the 10 best films of the year. I'm Sam Brigger, and this is Fresh Air

Weekend. This is Fresh Air Weekend. I'm Sam Brigger. Let's get back to Tanya Mosley's interview with actress Taraji P. Henson. She plays Suge Avery in the new film adaptation of the musical The Color Purple. Henson has had an extensive career in film and television, starring in many movies, including The Curious Case of Benjamin Button, Baby Boy, Hustle and Flow, and the TV series Empire. Two important roles early in your career were the 2001 John Singleton film Baby Boy, which they call a hood tale and hustle and flow, which you play opposite Terrence Howard. You were a pregnant prostitute in that. Both were really important to your career, but also you felt like you kind of had to fight a little harder not to be typecast because of those roles. Take me to that

place because you're working, so that's great. But you're also kind of being put in a box because you're doing so well at portraying these characters. I really started getting typecast, well, they tried with Yvette from Baby Boy because I guess she was more closely relatable to me you know because I'm edgy I'm from the hood you know what I mean and I'm gonna always show up as me like you're gonna get what you get but if it's Shakespeare in a park if it's Chekhov if it's you know August Wilson I'll give you that too but um that's called work you know I'm always gonna be me and I think a lot of times I was judged by that um and they were like oh she's not really acting that's just her you. And I think a lot of times I was judged by that. And they were like, oh, she's not really acting. That's just her, you know. So I got a lot of those baby mama kind of

like hood flick scripts. And I was like, yeah, no, this I think I think they're missing the point. I am a trained actress. Did you have to turn a lot of those down? A lot, a lot. I did. And so that's why after Baby Boy, I went straight to Lifetime. And I was a series regular on a show called The Division. And I played a rookie cop who was raised by lesbian mothers. And she lived in the Bay Area, San Francisco. And, you know, she was a rookie cop and she was upbeat and she wasn't this edgy girl from the hood. You know what I mean? So and then when I did that,

just when John called and was like, I need your eyes. And I was like, you need my eyes for what? He was like, for this script I got, you know, Hustle and Flow.

And he said, you read the script and you tell me which character you want to portray. And I remember reading the script and Lex's,

Paula J. Parker's character jumped off the page, you know, because she was loud and she was the one that spoke up for herself. And, you know, at first I saw her first because she just was loud. But then she was the one that spoke up for herself and you know at first I saw her first

because she just was loud but then it was the quiet mouse and I was like that's what he needs my eyes for because she hasn't found her voice yet and I called him and I said I want Suge and he said thank God because that's who I wanted you for. You grew up in Washington, D.C., and you had a child in college. You were studying acting at Howard University, but you knew you wanted to be an actor. You were like, I'm in this place, but I'm not of this place. I'm actually going somewhere. And I think it started as a young age because I got out of my zip code. I know so many people from that area, like we say, that never got out of their zip code. Like I'm talking going downtown just to go get on the bus and go downtown. If you don't get out of your zip code, how do you know there's a real huge world out there to be a part of? And so I think it started with my mother. Like every summer, she would send me down South. That's why I'm really having infinity for playing Southern women, because I spent so many summers with women like that. Down South where? North Carolina,

Scotland Neck, North Carolina with my grandmother. I would be there. I'd be the only cousin down there with my grandmother. And of course, you know, I go from this loud, big city down to country. And I was watching the soaps with my grandma, letting my imagination run wild. I'm an only child, so I have a very vivid imagination. And I portrayed a lot of characters down south, you know, in those moments playing by myself in the mirror. And that mirror became my stage. I want to talk a little bit more about your early life. We mentioned that you gave birth to your son, Marcel, when you were in college studying acting at Howard University. And there

was never a question for you that you're going to have a son, that you're going to have your baby. No, once I became pregnant, I just, I was like, this is a blessing. Like, I didn't second guess it because I had never had an oops moment ever before. And I'm grown. It wasn't like I was a kid in high school. Like, I was, you know, I was a grown woman living on my own. I had my own apartment. You know, I was putting myself through college. So it was my decision to make.

I was like, well, clearly this is a blessing. And that's just how I rolled with it. And then my dad showed up and he literally dropped to the floor and started thanking Jesus. And I was like, oh, Lord, this is a blessing. And then he took me to McDonald's to celebrate. He also pushed you. He was like, you know what? And the next place you need to go is to Hollywood.

So with your young son on your hip, you didn't have an agent. You didn't have a place. You didn't have a job. You didn't have a SAG card that allowed you to work as an actor. You only had $700 to your name when you came to Hollywood. I'm going to tell you what prepared me for that. And that was my training at Howard University. The training that I went through there was rigorous and it was unrelenting.

Like you had to show up and show out. If not, you would be replaced. They didn't care how light your skin was. They didn't care how pretty your hair was. They didn't care how thin or thick you were. You had to have the talent. And so I trained hard there. And I knew that I made a name for myself at Howard.

I was the one that didn't come from the musical arts school, you know, the performing arts school. I didn't come from there. I came from public school. And so I had to climb up that ladder and prove myself. And once I did it there, I knew I could do it anywhere because they didn't play. You worked as an extra on movie sets when you I got to D. I was still in college. And honey, you couldn't tell me I wasn't going to be a star. Spike Lee is going to look deep into my eyes of a sea of a thousand. But there's one scene you can actually see me.

My mother, God bless her heart. My mother found her baby in the crowd in the sea of a thousand. And she paused it. You can even hear my mouth. You can hear me going, all right, yes, sir. You can hear me. But it was a scene where he's talking about the police

and how they're the pigs and they are the problem and it's outside. We're outside and it's a whole crowd. And anyway, we were standing there, me and my best friend Tracy from the seventh grade who runs my foundation.

We go way back. And I remember the building caught on fire. And you know, extras, they place you. But we fought to be in the front, and we were not giving up our place. That building could have burned down and fell on our heads. We still would stay there locked. I was like, I'm not giving up my position. Because when they yell, when we come back from all this fire, when they fix that fire, we're going to be right here in our same position, front and center of that camera. Is there an importance you hold to being a part of this enduring story of the color purple at this stage in your life and career? I listen.

I just, for whatever reasons, I was supposed to be a part of it. I don't know why that is yet. I can't put my finger on it. Maybe I don't need to know. You know what I mean? Maybe I'm just supposed to just enjoy it. You know, I don't want to pick it apart too much. But I tell you this, I ran from Suge. I never saw myself playing Suge. I never even saw myself in the color purple. Like when I saw it, I never said to myself, oh, I'll be in the color purple one day. It just inspired me to make my dreams come true, to get out of my zip code, to dream, you know. And so that's what that movie represents to me. And I guess for me, I'm going to represent that for some young girl coming up, you know, for somebody, some young girl or some boy is going to see the possibilities through my, you know, role as Suge in this reimagining. You know, 30 years from now, we get to pass the baton to somebody else, you know, to this next generation of viewers and color purple fans.

Because you got to realize there's going to be a brand new audience to the story. Yeah. You know, stories come back every few years. And sometimes it's really clear why we need to see that story or read that story in that moment in time. Why do you think this story is important now for us to sit in a story of sisterhood now? We're in an age of healing, I say, for us black and brown communities, because for the first time ever in history, we're open and talking about our mental wellness. And this show, this movie definitely deals with that, definitely deals with that.

And when you say that, why is it important that I think that's why the divine order had me be a part of this. Why now, not 10 years from now? Why now, not 10 years ago? Because now is the moment that we've been dealing with our mental wellness and in the public, out loud. You see celebrities and athletes saying, I'm going to take a break from my mental wellness. We've never seen anything like this before. And this movie is going to only shed more light on how we need to heal and break these generational curses because we've been functioning dysfunctionally for some time because trauma has been passed down to us.

And how to cope in the trauma dysfunctionally has been passed down to us. Just because we don't know. We don't talk about it. Taraji P. Henson, thank you for this movie and thank you for your work all these years. Thank you. Thank you for seeing me. Taraji P. Henson stars as Suge Avery in the film adaptation of The Color Purple.

She spoke with Tanya Mosley. Our film critic Justin Chang saw a lot of movies this year at film festivals, in theaters, and from his couch. Here he is with his list of his 10 favorite movies of 2023. Film critics like to argue as a rule, but every colleague I've talked to in recent weeks agrees that 2023 was a pretty great year for moviegoing. The big box office success story, of course, was the blockbuster mashup of Barbie and Oppenheimer. But there were so many other titles, from the gripping murder mystery Anatomy of a Fall to the Icelandic wilderness epic Godland, that were no less worth seeking out, even if they didn't generate the same memes and

headlines. These are the 10 that I liked best. My favorite movie of the year is called All of Us Strangers, and it's a deeply moving and beautifully acted drama about love and loss from Andrew Hay, the English writer-director known for exquisite relationship studies like Weekend and 45 Years. In this one, Andrew Scott, best known as the hot priest from Fleabag, plays a lonely gay screenwriter named Adam. One night, he gets a knock on his apartment door from a rakishly handsome neighbor named Harry, played by Paul Meskel. Drink. It's Japanese. It's meant to be the best in the world, but I couldn't tell you why, so... No, thanks.

Okay, um... Okay, how about I come in anyway? If not for a drink, then... for whatever else you might want. I don't know. I don't think that's a good idea. Do I scare you? No. Well, you don't have to do anything if I'm not your type. No.

We don't have to do anything if I'm not your type. There's vampires at my door. Despite Adam's initial caution, he and Harry do eventually have that drink and begin seeing each other. It's not giving too much away to note that the movie is something of a ghost story, and features superb performances from not only Scott and Meskel, but also Claire Foy and Jamie Bell as Adam's parents. I've seen All of Us Strangers twice now, and both times, Hay's mix of aching romance and parent-child reckoning broke my heart in completely unexpected ways. The movie opens December 22nd in theaters. The second film on my list is The Boy and the Heron,

the latest and possibly final work from the Japanese anime master Hayao Miyazaki. It actually forms a family-friendly companion piece of sorts to all of us strangers, in that it's also a fantastical meditation on grief, this one filtered through the adventures of a 12-year-old boy who could be a stand-in for the young Miyazaki himself. The next two movies on my list both approach the subject of World War II from morally troubling angles. Number three is The Zone of Interest, Jonathan Glazer's eerily restrained and mesmerizing portrait of a Nazi commandant and his family living next door to Auschwitz. Number four is Oppenheimer,

Christopher Nolan's thrillingly intricate drama about the theoretical physicist who devised the atomic bomb. Both films deliberately keep their wartime horrors off screen, but leave no doubt about the magnitude of what's going on. Up next are two sharply nuanced portraits of grumpy artists at work. Number five is Showing Up, Kelly Reichardt's comedy starring Michelle Williams as a Portland sculptor trying to meet a looming art show deadline. Number six is A Fire, the latest from the German director Christian Petzold, about a misanthropic writer struggling to finish his second novel at a remote house in the woods. Both protagonists are so memorably ornery, you almost want to see them in a crossover romantic comedy sequel.

Two movies about long-overdue reunions between childhood pals take the next two spots on my list. Number seven is Past Lives, Céline Song's wondrously intimate and philosophical story about fate and happenstance, starring a terrific Greta Lee and Tao Yu. Number eight is The Eight Mountains, Felix van Groningen and Charlotte van der Meersch's gorgeously photographed drama set in the Italian Alps. The performances, by Luca Marinelli and Alessandro Borghi, are as breathtaking as the scenery. At number 9 is the best documentary I saw this year, De Humani Corporis Fabrica, or Fabric of the Human Body,

a startling work from the directors Lucien Castaigne-Taylor and Verena Paravelle. It features both hard-to-watch and mesmerizing close-up footage of surgeons going about their everyday work. The medical procedures prove far more experimental in my number 10 choice, Poor Things, Yorgos Lanthimos' hilarious, Frankenstein-inspired dark comedy, starring a marvelous Emma Stone as a woman implanted with a child's brain. Both these movies show all the life-saving and squirm-inducing things you can do with a scalpel, but I wouldn't cut a single frame.

Justin Chang is the film critic for the LA Times. Coming up, jazz pianist Brad Meldow joins us at the piano for Music in Conversation. His latest album is Your Mother Should Know. Brad Meldow joins us at the piano for music and conversation. His latest album is Your Mother Should Know. Brad Meldow plays the Beatles. I'm Sam Brigger, and this is Fresh Air Weekend. This is Fresh Air Weekend. I'm Sam Brigger in for Terry Gross. We play a lot of music by jazz pianist Brad Meldow on our show, in the breaks and at the end of the show. He's one of the most influential and acclaimed jazz pianist Brad Meldo on our show, in the breaks and at the end of the show.

He's one of the most influential and acclaimed jazz pianists living today. His many recordings feature a wide range of jazz and American popular song standards, but he's also known to interpret music that lies outside the typical jazz catalog, playing songs by Radiohead, Nirvana, Nick Drake, and Pink Floyd. In particular, he's had a long relationship with the music of the Beatles. Looking back at his dozens of albums, Beatles songs are peppered throughout. Like Blackbird, Martha, My Dear, She's Leaving Home, and others. But now for the first time, Mildow has an album of all Beatles songs. Well, almost, except for that David Bowie one snuck in at the end. It's called Your Mother Should Know. Brad Meldow plays the Beatles. It was recorded live in Paris

in 2020. Well, Brad Meldow, welcome to Fresh Air. Thanks for having me. So in 2018, you had done a concert of Bach for a concert hall in Paris, and they asked you to come back for 2020, but they wanted you to do just the Beatles songs. Were you enthusiastic about that idea? I was a little apprehensive at first, but I had a lot of time on my hands because it was just kind of right in the middle of the lockdown. So I thought, well, this would be something exciting to jump into. It was also interesting. What they did was they programmed a series of concerts with various

artists and they played the whole Beatles repertoire. So everybody picked different tunes. So somebody covered Revolution No. 9 somehow. I was always curious how that went. You slightly favor Paul McCartney songs in this album. And I think Paul McCartney is known for writing very strong melodies. Do you think that's why you like those songs? I think very strong melodies, but kind of to make a weird comparison, what I get from Schubert is these simple melodies with this harmony under it. It's so beautiful. So I think of Paul also really as a very subtle harmonist. And so, yeah, definitely both of those things.

Can you give an example of what you mean by his harmonies? Well, it's not on the record, but it always comes to mind, you know, maybe because everybody knows it. But just what he does with Blackbird, which I've played a lot over the years. One thing he likes to do is what you call in classical music, maybe you'd call it a pedal point. It's something you find in Bach and Brahms a lot, where there's one note that goes through different chords, and it's the same note.

And in this case, he's getting that from an open G string on the guitar. So you have this beautiful harmony that's moving around, but always with that G in the middle of it. And that's always there. Thank you. So that note's like a home note that's throughout the piece? Yeah, yeah, and it's grounding, and the way it relates to everything sort of ties it. It's also something in another that Thelonious Monk loved to do on something like Think of One, where the F is in everything. This is...

And he has that a lot, you know, on different tunes of his. So why did you pick the song Your Mother Should Know? Yeah, I just love it. And it's just a great example of these kind of, you know, miniatures that Paul wrote. These short little songs that have a very specific emotional world, and then you're in and out of there in a couple minutes, and it sort of leaves you hanging, you know? And it's wistful, which is an emotion I get from Paul a lot.

It's kind of sad, happy, happy, sad. Well, would you play a little bit of it for us? Sure. Thank you. piano plays softly That's great. Thanks so much for doing that. Kind of random. I tried to pack a lot in. Well, that actually answers my next question. I was wondering how much of these are arranged that you would be playing the same all the time, but the way you just played that now was a lot different than the version on the album. Yeah, yeah, I did think about that a lot, and in the case of that one,

I hewed quite closely to the arrangement as they had it, and one fun thing about this record was it was sort of an orchestrational challenge. There's so much complexity to their music in all these different instruments and things happening. And then trying to bring that all onto the piano was a fun challenge. And then some improvising in there, kind of short, but they're great chords, you know? And then this very strange interlude. And then it's just over, and there's so many elements there all at once in a couple minutes. You know, a lot of Paul McCartney songs sound like they could be from a different era, and I think they harken back to the music of his parents. Like, his dad was a swing band leader.

And you actually, you say this in a good way, but some of the Beatles songs sound frumpy to you. Right, right. Yeah, I use that sort of in an endearing way. There's a swing feeling in there, but it's this kind of wistful, humorous thing that Paul brings to it, which is no doubt, like you said, the music that he heard, I think, when he was growing up. And he said that in some interviews I've heard. You have a memoir coming out in March called Formation, and it's the story of your youth and development as an artist. It's very personal, and it's a pretty distressing read. You felt like an outsider a lot of your youth, in part because you were adopted, but you were bullied as a kid. You were sexually groomed by your high school principal. And the traumas of your childhood led you to feel alienated as a young adult, confused about your sexuality, and as you say, filled with self-loathing, for which you sought relief in alcohol and drugs, eventually heroin, which almost led to your death.

Why at this point in your life did you decide to write this book and publish it? She is pretty heavy when you hear it all back. Yeah, it's all in there. Yeah, yeah. You know, it had been sort of this big blob on a hard drive for at least 15 years. And there were pieces of it there about some of the kind of political slash musical discussion. There were a couple of the memories. So I knew I had a book in there somewhere, but I think for whatever reason, it took kind of half a lifetime later past the actual events to get the story right.

And the way that's played out for me as a musician is that I think in some very mysterious way, a lot of those really difficult experiences made me the musician that I am. You know, for instance, this kind of loneliness and alienation that I can get to, for instance, playing a ballad and sort of going in this interior zone that's informed by, you know, experiences that I wouldn't have asked for, you know, at the time. So when you were in high school, there were all these cliques and you didn't really feel like you fit into a lot of them. There was a jazz clique, but there was a lot of, you were dealing with a lot of bullying, but you fell into a group of older musicians, jazz musicians, who would hire you on to go to weddings and play at parties. And then you actually even had like a, I think a regular gig at a club in Hartford called the 880.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And with these older musicians, you kind of found a community. What was it like hanging out with all these old guys? It was really fun. You know, there was one in particular, Larry DiNatoli, who's a drummer, who gave me and also Joel Fromm, who's a fantastic tenor saxophonist, and another guy, Pat Zimmerle, now, who's a classical composer. He gave us all a chance. You know, we were just really beginning and he gave us a gig at the 880 and he mentored us, you know, and that's really important. And he was my first model for a bohemian jazz musician. And I loved it.

You know, bohemian in the sense of he said whatever he wanted. He didn't live in the sense of, um, he said whatever he wanted. He didn't live in, in the kind of suburban, we, we lived in, in West Hartford, which was a very suburban kind of conservative, um, nothing particularly bad about it, but kind of stifling. too, you know. And that's what I experienced as when I came to New York and I started meeting older jazz musicians who were also mentor figures like Jimmy Cobb, the great Jimmy Cobb, the drummer, and Junior Mance, the pianist who I studied with, different musicians I worked with. There was a kindness there as well. So pretty much nothing but positive in that sense for these older models, you know, which definitely I think made me think, yeah, I want to do this. In your memoir, you talk about the difficulties you had stopping using heroin. You were addicted to heroin for many years. And, you know, recovering addicts are often told to avoid like the people they did drugs with

or like, or even the places where they did drugs or the kinds of places that they did drugs. Um, and jazz is a music of the night and, and clubs. And I was wondering if that can be difficult for you sometimes. I mean, looking at your touring schedule, you're often playing concert halls, but you also play at clubs. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting that time period I'm writing about when I was in the addiction, there were only a few other jazz musicians who were getting into that. And I think it was more of something that was going on in the 90s with heroin. You know, you had like supermodels doing it and A-list actors and it was something.

So that was something more that I found. I was using heroin with, you know, NYU students and, you know, people who were these, you know, kind of privileged kids like myself. So I didn't get pulled too much into the classic, you know, idea that you have with heroin and jazz. I think that time had already sort of come and gone, you know. The idea that like Charlie Parker did heroin, so I should probably do heroin too.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Is it hard for you to listen to music that you recorded from that period? Not so much. I mean, what I do hear is that it wasn't so much that it impeded my playing, but I was kind of on autopilot in the sense that I wasn't developing. I had this natural thing I could do and it even had something that was my own, but it wasn't developing. And I remember that I finally got clean. I went to a rehab in Los Angeles and then I stayed there. And I got my Steinway B that I still have now.

And I had an apartment and I started practicing and, you know, getting on my feet again. And it just flowed. All of a sudden I was writing and my playing was developing in a way that, and then it just went from there. So it really only flourished. So I can listen to that, but that's what I'm aware of most of all is that it's kind of this autopilot, you know, in a way. You know, in your memoir, the young Brad Mildow comes across as a pretty unhappy person, someone not at home in the world. But, you know, the book ends, I think you're like in your late 20s, almost 30 at that point. You're now in your early 50s.

You're married. You have three kids. You couldn't ask for a more successful musical career. You're considered one of the most important jazz musicians of your generation. Have you found your place in the world? Do you feel more comfortable in your own skin? Yeah, definitely. Definitely.

Things are just easier as you get older. Thank goodness. Otherwise, I don't know. I think I had a friend read the manuscript early on who was with me for a lot of that. And he said, wow, man, this is pretty depressing. Because I remember we had a lot of good times too, you know, and that certainly was the case too. So I tried to describe some of the, you know, the ecstasy of hearing all this great music and some close friendships, but it's definitely a dark story there. And yeah, thank goodness things haven't been dark. I'm blessed now, really. I'm happy to hear that. I was hoping that you would play a little bit of Golden Slumbers as we end this interview.

This is another Paul McCartney song that you describe in your line art notes as an amen inducing ballad. Why did you pick this song? It's that zone of Paul where these, I think these kind of cadences that are, yeah, it's like, it, it's like, it has a church quality to it, you know, another, let it be, hey Jude, have that. Um, and then you see on his first solo record, uh, right after, um, this one, uh, Abbey Road, uh, there's a tune, Maybe I'm Amazed, that's just a great one. Uh, that's the same kind of amen thing. piano plays softly Thank you. piano plays softly Well, Brad Meldow, thank you so much for being here today on Fresh Air. Thanks for having me, Sam. Brad Meldow's latest album is Your Mother Should Know.

Brad Meldow plays the Beatles. This interview was recorded earlier this year. Fresh Air Weekend is produced by Teresa Madden. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director is Audrey Bentham. Our engineer this week was Adam Staniszewski. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Amy Sallet, Phyllis Myers, Roberta Shorrock, Lauren Krenzel, Heidi Saman,

Anne-Marie Baldonado, Thea Chaloner, Seth Kelly, and Susan Nikundi. Our digital media producer is Molly C.V. Nesper. For Terry Gross and Tanya Mosley, I'm Sam Brigger.