Fresh Air - Tennis rivals Chris Evert & Martina Navratilova team up against cancer

Episode Date: June 29, 2026

Once the most successful women’s tennis champions of their generation, Evert and Navratilova open up about friendship, cancer and retirement in the Netflix documentary ‘Chris & Martina: The Final Set.’ They spoke with Terry Gross. Subscribe to our free weekly newsletter Follow us on Instagram Subscribe to our YouTube channel Check out the Fresh Air ArchivesSee pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

This is fresh air. I'm Terry Gross. My guest, Chris Everett and Martina Navratilova, were the greatest tennis players of their generation. They were friends and they were each other's greatest rivals in the 70s and 80s. When Everett retired in 1989, they'd each won 18 Grand Slam victories, and they'd each been the top-ranked female player in the world seven times. Navratilova retired in 2006. Now they're the subject of a new Netflix documentary called Chris and Martina the final set. It tells the story of how they interacted as friends and as opponents and how their friendship went cold for an extended period when their rivalry became more fierce. When they were each retired, their friendship deepened as they both faced cancer and were able to support each other.

Everett was diagnosed with ovarian cancer in 2021. Navratilova was diagnosed. with throat and breast cancer in 2022, the same year that Everett had a recurrence. When I spoke with them a couple of weeks ago, they were both in remission. But late last week, Everett disclosed she'd just been diagnosed with a recurrence of ovarian cancer. Here's how the interview went a couple of weeks ago. Chris Everett, Mortina and Evertolova, what a pleasure to have you on fresh air. And really like that the documentary is so good, both in terms of your friendship, your rivalry, but also the excerpts of matches between the two of you that are just

spectacular to watch. So congratulations on that. Thank you. Thank you. I mean, what are the odds you'd have cancer at the same time and be a short drive from each other in Florida? It's really amazing. Yeah, this is Chris. Freaky. I can't even, I can't get away from her. You know, everything happens with us. We had a 15-year career, and then we got cancer, you know, at the same time. And it really is freaky. But, you know, I always say if I want someone to be in the trenches with me, it's Martina, because she has been so supportive and so understanding and such a calming, you know, voice to talk to. Yeah, we have such a level of trust that we know whatever we say to each other, it stays there.

We know where they give each other the best advice. We know how to. And there's no ulterior motive or no playing games. And that's how we like it. Because I think we both have had so many people, oh, you're great, this and that. They don't give you the real story. But we've always been honest with each other on that. front. So you both have or had athletes' bodies. And, you know, Martina, one of the things you

were known for at some point in your career was basically building your body, you know, just like intense, like four hour a day training to make your body stronger. And then, Chris, you ended up doing a very similar thing to keep up with Martina. And when you had cancer, you were really weak. I mean, it was hard to just walk. What was it like for you as athletes to live in a body that wasn't functioning that was very weak? Well, for me, I mean, so Chris's diagnosis and treatment was much more life-threatening than mine percentage-wise, but my treatment was more difficult physically. I think I brought my yoga mat with me. I was in New York for seven weeks and I literally sat on the yoga mat

maybe half an hour of the seven weeks and did some stretching. I couldn't even do the down dog post because I would have fallen down. I had absolutely zero strength left. But the longest thing that took was the taste, which I love to eat, so that was tough. But, you know, we're athletes,

so we want things to happen right away. It was almost a year before I had full taste butts coming back, but it all came back. But Chris was, well, you talk about what you went through. Well, I think the key. chemo, you know, kick my butt, let's put it that way. And, you know, when you think about, you know, I don't want to use the word poisons, but the toxins, you know, it's killing the good cells as well as the bad cells. And it left me very weak, very, very weak. After chemo, I would have three or four days of intense nausea and I just would feel tingling in my body and it just wasn't nice. And, you know, I didn't have the energy. I mean, to work. I mean, to, walk six blocks was was a big deal for me. And it was foreign. You know, it felt like it wasn't my body for sure. Yeah. What were you able to do to support each other through the cancer and

its treatment? You know, there are a lot of phone calls between us and Martina, who is the cook in the relationship. I don't cook, but Martina would bake bread for me and her wife, Julia, would cook, make some chicken soup. So I got a lot of food. I made you pasta. Yeah. I got a lot of food from Martina. She got a necklace from me.

Yeah, I get jewelry from Chris. She gets food from me. But, you know, Martinez in my relationship, because we've had one for 50 years, is not the type where we have to talk to each other every day to maintain the closeness. I always knew she was there. She always knew I was there if we needed to talk. And that was that. Martina, you knew that something was wrong when you felt a lump in your throat.

But it was my lymph node. Oh, was your lymph node? Yeah, yeah. The tumor was in my tongue, based on my tongue, but I didn't feel that. I just felt a swollen lymph node. So if you can. Right, and that's what got you to be tested. But Chris, you weren't symptomatic, but your sister, Gene had died of ovarian cancer.

And she had a genetic mutation, and you wanted to see if you had the same thing. Don't I get that right? Yeah. Yeah, I'll tell you the story to that. My sister, Jeannie, was traveling with me to Singapore, and we were running to the gate. But I looked back, and Jeannie was huffin and puffin and not running. And I said, Jeannie, what's the matter? She's an athlete.

And she said, I don't know. I just been out of breath the last few weeks. And I just don't know. I think maybe I have a lung, you know, infection or something. And I said, well, did the doctor say that? And she goes, no, I haven't been to a doctor. So I said, Jeannie, you know what, we're going to Singapore for four days. And when we come back, you are going to the hospital right away and get this tested because something's not right. So she said, okay. So she went and first she got genetic testing. And believe it or not, she did not, everything turned out fine. She didn't have the BRCA gene, but she had a variant that was. was of uncertain significance, which means it hasn't been tested enough. You know, there's not enough case studies. And so they said, you know, she doesn't have BRCA. So you don't need to be tested. So nobody else in the family was tested. But unfortunately, Jeannie left it too long. And when she went in, she had stage four ovarian cancer. And it had spread everywhere in her body. And she,

She ignored the symptoms because, like most women who are nurturers, they're caring about their kids and their husband and their family, they forget about themselves. And that's probably one of the messages I want to get out there if you feel anything different at all slightly. You know, go get it tested. So after my sister died two years later, I get a call from the geneticist and they said, do you remember that variant that your sister had of uncertain significance? Well, that has changed, and now that's basically cancerous. And it's BRCA. So we recommend that you and your family go get tested. Next day I got tested.

I had the BRCA gene in me. And that week I got a hysterectomy, and they took it all out. But the results came back, and they said, unfortunately, you have a tumor in your ovaries, and you have tumors in your fallopian tube. And I was like, are you kidding me? And they said, but, you know, it's stage one. You got lucky. You got it early.

And by the way, I had had blood tests. I had had internal sonograms. I had, you know, everything that you can imagine. And nothing was detected as far as ovarian cancer. And I felt fine. I felt no symptoms. So that was my story. And it's like, you know, so I had the brocogene and I got, I had a hysterectomy. And then later on I had a mastectomy because you have a 70% of getting breast cancer if you have the brocogen. Did you freak out, Martina, when you were diagnosed? Yeah. Yes, I did. So I felt that my lymphinol was swollen. So about two weeks later, it's still there swollen. So I called my doctor and he says, we need to.

get a biopsy, and it was on a Tuesday. He says by Thursday, Friday we'll know. So Friday, I don't hear anything. I call him. And he called back like five minutes later. He says, the lymph node is HPV, but the tumor could be anywhere. He literally said it could be in your lungs or your kidneys or your liver. And I'm, oh my God, you know, I could like not see next year. So I totally freaked out over the weekend. This is Friday afternoon. And then I found out Monday, oncologist calls me and he says, well, it's HPV and it's definitely just in your throat. It's not anywhere else. And the cure rate is 95%.

And I was so relieved. I had like the worst weekend on my life from what the original doctor said. And then the oncologist said, it's going to be nasty. It's not nice. We need to find out where the tumor is, but it's somewhere in your throat. So good news, bad news. And then so we scheduled a CT scan. and so then they inject you to see where the tumor is, and they said, okay, so we found the tumor,

it's at the base of your tongue on the left side, size of about maybe two centimeters, almost an inch. I didn't feel it. And also your right breast lit up, so I know it's cancer. Unrelated to that, and then I have biopsy on the breast, and it's a completely different cancer tumor, about a centimeter. Same thing. Nothing showed. I did not feel anything. The mammogram, the day of the surgery, still didn't show the tumor. So even with the mammograms that we have, they're amazing. They still didn't find it. Only ultrasound found it. So then I had to figure out, okay, what do we do now? You know, then you get into the solution. What's the sequence of cure?

Because I had two different cancers that went unrelated. I did the gene testing. I have nothing. I was just, this is my third cancer, second and third cancer that I've had unrelated to each other. So you had breast cancer in 2010. In 2010, yes. In the documentary, we see you in the present and you're still like recovering, but you're done with the treatment. And you're in, I'm not sure what room you're in. Whether it's one of your living rooms or someplace else, but you're watching playback, like video playback, of some of your matches together,

you know, excerpts of some of your matches together. The playing is spectacular. And what was it like? What were you seeing? And what was going through your mind? As you are at this point, like close to 70, I think that's about how old you were. Looking back at when you were in your prime

and were rivals battling it out on the tennis court. For me, it was fun watching with Chris because we had different reactions to what happened on the court. But what impressed me is how well we played with those wooden rackets. Because you know what, those rackets are not easy to play with. But you try to put yourself in there physically what it was like, mentally what it was like. And it's like, oh, I should have gone down the line or I can't believe I'll miss that shot. Or Chris, you had such a great pass. It was amazing.

So it was impressive. I was, and the bodies, yeah, I'm like, I wish I could still have that six-pack. Yeah, I think, I mean, I had to emotionally get myself back into that time, you know, that time of my life. You know, I think when I watched, you watched two different matches, one Martina won on the grass. And I noticed that I was winning quite handily. I had control the match. And then I had a sitter and I hit it down the middle. and Martina kind of ran into it because I didn't mean to hit her in the head, even though some people may think I did.

But Martina kind of was trying to cover that shot. So she ran and I hit her in the head. And it was like a comic relief a little bit, you know, because we were both so stressed out, comic relief. But unfortunately, for me, she came to life after that point. And then she just played, you know, great grass court tennis and beat me. and I remember feeling genuinely happy for her. I remember it was her first Wimbledon. That's always been her dream since she defected.

Her family couldn't be there to watch her. She was all alone, and I just was happy for her, and I knew that this was going to be one of many for her to win. In my match, the French Open, I remember that that was in 85, and that was the happiest I've ever been winning a major because I had had a two-and-a-half-year draft, out against Martina and hadn't beaten her. Everybody counted me out and never thought I'd

win another major and I did. And I went back to the gym and worked out and came into the net, had some new strategies to play. So we both kind of redefined ourselves and our games because the other one was number one at the time. And we made each other better at the end of the day. So I'd like you to each evaluate each other's strengths and vulnerabilities. from your point of view, as the opponent? Well, for me, Chris, was the epitome of mental toughness and poker face. She controlled her emotions on the outside 100%. You never knew if she was winning or losing.

She was just so controlled, and I so wasn't. So I always admired that and couldn't believe that she could keep it together like that. And her concentration levels, she never gave anything away. as far as points, you had to earn it. So I knew every time before we played each other, whether winning or losing, I knew it was going to be a long, long physical match. Nothing physical in my game was any good?

Well, yeah, you never missed. And she ran everything down. And then later, when she got older, she shortened the points and took the net away from me. But, yeah, it was emotional. Okay. I think with Martina, she was like, unbelievable athlete. So basically her movement, her power from her shots, you know, she had a great

forehand and a really tricky serve to return. Her backhand was her weaker side. And, you know, I tried to extend rallies and keep her at the baseline because I felt like, you know, she would, I could wear her down and eventually she'd miss and she would get emotional sometimes in matches. And I felt like that was sort of a feather in my cap. But later on, at the end of her career, obviously she really improved in that area. You each started really young. Chris, you were five. You were trained by your father, who was a tennis pro,

and he used to come with like a cart of tennis balls and throw them your way so you can hit them back. Martina, you started training in Czechoslovakia at age four. You started to. Five. Oh, you were five, too. Yeah. And it was your father or stepfather who trained you?

My stepfather, yeah. And so you both... He was my father. You both trained hard. at the time when you were training, which obviously really paid off, did you want to go out and play with friends instead of constantly training? Did you think at the time, I'm missing my childhood? Or did you think that in retrospect? My mother used to pick me up from kindergarten, and I used to go to Kara Bennett's house, my girlfriend down the street, and go swimming in her pool, which was a novelty, and have barbecues at night. And I really had a great afternoon.

All of a sudden, my mom started picking me up at kindergarten and bringing me to Holiday Park so that my dad could throw tennis balls. That's where your dad was. My dad, who was my tennis pro and tennis coach, used to throw balls and I would, you know, repeatedly hit the tennis ball. So he was teaching me how to play tennis. I remember five years old feeling very resentful and very bitter and very upset. And, but there's nothing I could do about it because my dad was my dad and he was the, you know, he was a disciplinarian and he was the head of the family. So I had no say. But it wasn't my choice to go over and play. But as time went by, interesting enough, more and more kids came

to Holiday Park and I met new girlfriends and I played with the girls. I played tennis with the boys. And it really became a great little spot to have friendships. And also, to play tennis and to get better. So, I mean, that feeling went away quickly. And as soon as I started winning 10-and-under tournaments and 12-under-tournature tournaments, you know, I had the fever, and I knew that I really loved it, and I loved to win. Yeah, for me, it was different in that I did not play every day at all growing up. First two years since I was five, I was just on the hitting against the wall.

And when I was seven, when I could hit the, I used my grandmother's racket, so when I could finally hold the racket with one hand, because I was just hitting. 200 back ends against the wall. Then I got on the real court and then when I was nine, I got a coach who taught my father how to teach tennis. And in the winter, we didn't play at all from like October, it was on clay in Europe. And so from October to April, I did not play tennis at all until I was maybe 10 years old. Then I would go once a week for an hour. In the winter, that was it. And during the summer, and in the winter, I was doing cross-training because I was playing hockey. I was skiing, climbing trees. In the summer, I would swim in the river, ride my bicycle

everywhere. But I didn't really play tennis on a daily basis until I was like 15, 16 years old. So it was just completely different for me. My guests are Chris Everett and Martina Evertolova, the new Netflix documentary about their friendship, their tennis rivalry, and having cancer at the same time in the 2020s. is called Chris and Martina the final set. They were in remission when we recorded our interview a couple of weeks ago, but last week Everett disclosed she'd just been diagnosed with a recurrence of ovarian cancer. We'll hear more of the interview after a break.

I'm Terry Gross, and this is Fresh Air. This is Fresh Air. I'm Terry Gross. Let's get back to my interview with Chris Everett and Martina Navratilova, who were tennis champions in the 70s and 80s. They spent much of their career. as friends and as the greatest rivals. A new Netflix documentary called Chris and Martina the final set is about the challenges of that dual relationship and about how they supported each other when they were each diagnosed with cancer at about the same time in the 2020s. When I recorded

this interview with them a couple of weeks ago, they were in remission, but late last week, Everett revealed she had just been diagnosed with the recurrence of ovarian cancer. Chris, in 1970, when you were 15, you defeated the number one ranked women's professional player in the world, Margaret Court, and you became famous for being so good at age 15. How do that affect your sense of who you were and what your life would be like? Good question. I want to know. You know, fame at a young age and success is not a good recipe for emotional and mental development and growth. It really isn't because I did beat Margaret Court and then all of a sudden I was getting a lot of attention and people were coming up and patting me on the back and telling me how great I was and people were allowing me to get away with things and it went to my parents allowing me to get away with things as well. You know, I just think before you develop a personality and you develop principles and boundaries, you know, when you're a kid and everyone's telling you that you're the greatest ever, I just think that it just is very, very confusing and very detrimental to, you know, to your health. And in those days, we didn't have psychiatrists and therapists and, you know, we didn't have the resources that today's game has. You know, Martia and I had to do this all ourselves, figured out all by ourselves.

And my parents weren't that much of a help because they had never been in my position. So it was like, it was very strange. And I think it affected me, you know, later on in my life when it came to relationships. Well, Chris, you had to go to school, I think, the day after the Margaret Court match. I did. I did. I mean, that's what a clash of worlds that was. Yeah, I mean, I did. And, you know, I was people, the kids were looking at me different. Like, I was very, honestly, I was very shy. And I wasn't outgoing. And I wasn't confident in myself. I was a bit insecure. I wasn't the popular girl. And people were looking at me and kids were looking at me. And, you know, so I felt like an outsider, actually. And then, you know, as years went by and I started.

started playing tournaments, and the press dubbed me. You know, they labeled me, gave me an image, Little Miss Ice Maiden, you know, Cinderella and sneakers, Little Miss Icicle. And because I was very cool and calm on the court and composed, they thought I was cold and how could this be a schoolgirl being this cold? And so they gave me an image. And honestly, when you're young, you start living within your image. It's just easier. Martina, when you played your first match in the U.S., I think the first time you'd been to the U.S. from Czechoslovakia, and travel was so restricted after the Russians invaded, what was that first tournament like for you?

Like, you weren't really speaking the language. You were basically alone. I think Chris had already, like, you know, befriended you and was helping kind of acclimate you. But tell me what that first match was like. And was that against Chris? No, no, no, no. So the first tournament, I had to play qualifying

to get into the draw. It was 16 draw. Chris ended up winning it, of course. But I won my first round match. I got qualified, and I won the first round match, and then I lost in the quarters. But I was thrilled to be in the States. I always loved American cars. And when you order a ham sandwich, you got, you know, like two inches of ham and two slices of bread.

Whereas growing up, you had thick bread and one slice of ham. So I thought I was in heaven. And it was $2.30 for that sandwich. I still remembered. I couldn't believe how much ham I was getting. So I fell in love with it. American culture because it was so, there were oranges on the streets. I could pick an orange. Was this Florida, California? Florida, this is for Laredale. So I'm picking up an orange of, you know,

as I'm driving down the road. And in Czechoslovakia, we only had oranges once a year. For Christmas, we would get bananas and oranges. It was a treat. Normally, you just get apples and pears and maybe peaches. So it was like, you know, Alice in Wonderland for me coming to the States. Chris, you befriended. Martina, you helped her culturally, but also did you help her with her game? And did you think she's going to become my fiercest rival soon? No, I did not help her with her game. She won't going to do that. Even if she could. Yeah, I was not a coach. I was a player trying to protect my number one ranking. And you were 18.

I saw a very talented young Chukesvokian player, and I played her in Akron, Ohio. And you were 16 then? Yeah, 16. I was 18. I was the fourth trim and on the tour. Yeah, which is in the same month that I met her. And I won 7, 6, 6, 6, 3. But I remember thinking to myself, holy cow, when this young girl, you know, gets into better shape,

she is going to be a force to be reckoned with and very dangerous because she had so much talent. Her hands were quick. You know, she had a big first serve. She had a big forehand. And she just was so powerful. So you maintained your friendship until that kind of went cold. And the way the story is told in the documentary is that, Martina, you had become close to Nancy Lieberman, who I think fair to say was like the most famous basketball, female basketball player of her era.

And I think you became romantically involved too, but she told you that you had to, like, train harder, eat better and, you know, trim down. And she had you training like for hours a day. And your body transformed. Unbelievable. But she also told you that it was time to stop being friends with Chris because it's hard for an opponent to be a friend. You have to just, like, not think about her feelings or anything and just see her as your rival. And I want to know from each of you how that felt. Let's start with you, Martina.

How did it feel like I can't be friends with Chris anymore? Well, this happened. So Nancy, I met in April. And then Nancy came with me to the French Open, Eastbourne, Wimbledon, and I lost in the semis in all those tournaments. And after Wimbledon, she says, what are you doing it, what do you mean? You could be in so much better shape and you're too nice to Chris. I'm like, what are you talking about? Oh, you need to be tough and you need to start training harder

and you need to hate your opponents and you need to hate Chris. I'm like, oh, okay. And I was very, you know, naive. And again, I didn't have the skills to say, no, I don't have to hate her. I just need to want to beat her. I was almost too friendly. But the getting in shape thing was news to me. I thought I was in good shape.

And she took me on the basketball court, had me run some suicide drills. That's when I realized, okay, I'm not in as good of shape as I thought. So that summer I started training hard. Then during the S-Open, René Richards started helping me, became my coach after the S-O-Pen, and that's when everything kind of changed for me. The fitness and then the coaching. Because for six years after I defected, I didn't have a coach. My father was my coach, but we could talk maybe once a month.

So he couldn't coach me. And I was on my own, and that's when Renee started helping me. That's when everything changed for me. And Chris, what was it like for you after Martina's? following the advice of Nancy Lieberman distanced herself from you. A hurtful. It was very hurtful. And I don't think that was really Martina.

I think she was just, you know, following Nancy's orders. And Martina, you know, was really sort of afraid to speak up to her at the same time. But in saying that, Nancy Lieberman did a heck of a lot for Martina Navratilova when it came to her tennis. her fitness. Because it was a 180-degree turn from the athlete that she was then until after she had worked out with Nancy. And she was just, she became unbeatable. And then for the next two and a half years, you know, lost six matches. So she did her a lot of good. Let's put it that way. But not in a nice way. You lost six matches. I had a stretch where I lost six matches in three years. That's how amazingly I played then. I mean, when I look at the number of

I'm like, wow. But when you're doing it, you don't think about it. But, yeah, that was a pretty good stretch. My guests are tennis champions Chris Everett and Martina and Everettilova. They spent most of their careers as friends and rivals and are now the subject of a new Netflix documentary called Chris and Martina, the final set. We'll be right back after a short break. This is Fresh Air.

This is Fresh Air. Let's get back to my interview with tennis champions who spent most of their careers as friends and rivals, Chris Everett and Martina Narutilova. They're the subject of a new Netflix documentary called Chris and Martina the final set. Chris Everett had been ranked the number one female player for seven years, but in 1978, Navratilova defeated Everett in her first Grand Slam singles title at Wimbledon and supplanted Everett as the top-ranked female player. Navratilo went on to hold that position for almost seven years. Chris, what a do you? to your identity, because your identity was built ever since you're like 15 on like being

amazing, being unbeatable, being number one. And when you stop being number one, when you were losing to Martina, who you had known before she was nearly that good, what did it do to your sense of self? You know, I mean, whether it's ego or pride or whatever it is, I wasn't happy about it. I hadn't played anybody like that before. Nobody had come along with that versatility and the strength, the power that Martina had. And it was tough to swallow to tell you the truth. But after a while, I kind of came to terms with it and realized she's just too good and you can continue to work hard. Go in the gym like she does and train like she does and just try to become a better athlete and change her game a little bit.

You started training and... Yeah. Change my strategy. Yeah. You took a break for a while from tennis. I think I was the first one to take a... It was a mental break at that time. Because the way I described it was like I'd wake up in the morning and I didn't want to get out of bed.

And the thought of competing, you know, made me... I just didn't have the burning desire. I didn't have the killer instinct. Were you burned out and were you also discouraged because you weren't winning as much? No, no, no, no. I was burned out. I mean, you know that they call that the seven-year itch in marriage. Well, to me, there's a seven-year itch as being an athlete. And I just was mentally drained. And I wanted just to live life like a normal 24-year-old. Yeah, it was 78. I played 21 tournaments and Chris played 10 tournaments. Martina, did you go through that seven-year period?

I was burned out at the end of 86, and I did not know it either. It should have been red flags flying everywhere, as my then coach Mike Esteb, how few tournaments can I play and still stay number one? Hello. But I didn't know to take a break. I did not take any vacations. And I played for three years, burned out.

And I still kept trying, and the results weren't there. Then Steffi Graf comes along and starts beating, beating both of us. And so I ended up talking to Billy Jean. I said, Billy, I don't know what's going on. This is now 89 in the spring. I said, I don't know what's going on.

I'm trying hard. but the results aren't there and this and that. So she advised me to take a week off, just do nothing except what I want to do, and see if I still feel like the love of the game that I had when I was a little girl hitting against the wall. So I did that. I took a week off, did nothing,

and I'm like, yeah, I still want to play. I love the game, and I still feel I can get better or improve in some ways, and I want to play. And so that, and I played six more years after that. So all it took was one week of self-frictly. But I didn't know to take the break. I wonder if this contributed to feeling burned out.

You talk about, in the documentary you talk about how Chris was considered like the girl next door. Everybody loved her in the stands. But for you, people saw you like, well, she's the communist and she's a bully. And then at some point after you were outed and she's a lesbian and she's a lesbian. and that you would get some booze, you wouldn't get as many cheers as Chris did. And that sounds a little demoralizing. Did that contribute to your feeling of burnout, do you think?

I'm sure that didn't help because I always felt like I was the visiting team. No matter what I played, you know, they were cheering for the other guy to win or for me to lose. Either way, you take it personally, and it was tricky. And playing Chris was difficult because how can you not like Chris? It was not to admire. You know, she was like the impression. of cool, and I was not. But then coming from a communist country, coming from a Slavic country,

then of course being gay didn't help either. So, and then, you know, I had visible muscles and, you know, it was physically stronger, imposing and all of this, and unapologetic. I never apologized for who I was. And, you know, as a woman, you're supposed to be more demure, and I certainly never was that. So it was just a whole bunch of stuff. And when you really think, back, I was still kind of alone because I was. not getting the help emotionally or mentally that I could have used back then. And the pressure never goes away, really. And then there was also the pressure of not being able to come out because it wasn't done.

You know, you... No, no, no, no. I couldn't come out because it would have been a disqualifying, could be disqualifying for getting my citizenship. So I couldn't come out until after I got my citizenship in 81. Yes, it was on there. it's up to the final officer, which I think always men, who did the final interview to approve you for citizenship, they can ask you whatever they want, and if they ask you, are you gay, and you can't lie, right?

Because then that could be a disqualifier. You have to tell the truth. You're under oath. And if you say yes, and if that officer deems that a disqualifying answer, then you will not get your citizenship, and you're done. And so I couldn't come out for that reason. And then once I got my citizenship, I didn't want to come out because it would have hurt the tour. So it was always something. I was never ashamed of who I was, but I was kind of in the closet because of these circumstances.

That's a lot to keep in when you're in the public eye. It is. It is. Especially when you're being booed. You're just up against so much and had so much you had to keep inside, inside yourself. So you were outed in the New York Daily News. Do you know how that happened? Yes, so I got my citizenship. I think it was July 20th.

I got my passport. The next day I fly to France to play in an exhibition in Monaco. And that reporter who had been asking me, are you gay or are there any lesbians? I can't talk about it until I get my citizenship. I get my citizenship. He calls me. He finds me. And are you ready to talk now?

I said no, because I gave him the reason about the women's tennis tour, because Billie Jean King was outed about her lesbian relationship. And she was trying to save herself from losing all their sponsors, sponsorship. She lost them anyway. And then the people in charge of WTA said, you know, we cannot have another scandal because they knew I wanted to come out once I got my citizenship. So you can't come out because the sponsor said they will leave the women's

tour if there's another scandal. So I explained this to him. I said, I can't come out because. And then I said, you're going to print this story, right? And he said, not if you don't want me to. I said, well, of course I didn't want you to. Bam, the next day or two days later, it's in the daily news. Martina comes out as bisexual. So there we are. If you're just joining us, my guest at tennis champions Chris Everett and Martina Navratilova, they're the subject of a new Netflix documentary called Chris and Martina, the final set. We'll be right back after a short break. This is fresh air.

This is fresh air, and if you're just joining us, my guests are tennis champions who spent most of their careers as friends and rivals, Chris Everett and Martina and Everettilova. They're the subject of a new Netflix documentary called Chris and Martina the final set. It's about their friendship, their rivalry, and then years after they both retired, having cancer at the same time. So I want to ask you briefly about retirement. Chris, you retired in 1989.

How old were you? 34 years old. Yeah. How did you know it was time and how did it affect your identity when you were no longer the tennis star? I mean, you were still a celebrity, but you weren't playing anymore. The reason I retired was because the mental side of the game was my strength. and the focus and the determination and the hunger to win was my strength. I used it in my advantage, and I didn't have it anymore.

I just wanted to relax, I didn't want to have pressure, and I wanted to start a family. So the nice thing was I had something to go to, and I think that made it, you know, not only bearable, but attractive to me to retire. So after I retired, I was married to a great guy, Andy Mill, and we had a great life. And a couple of years later, we started a family. And I remember every morning waking up after retirement felt like a vacation because I had the freedom to do whatever I darn wanted to do. Because since I was six years old, I had a plan and I had a routine. And I was on the court every day. So that was that.

And you had three children in five years. You could not have done that if you were playing. No. I really threw myself into motherhood and nurturing. And it was so nice not to think about myself. It was so nice to care for somebody else besides myself. It was just the time for me to start to be a little unselfish and not be selfish. Martina, you played for like eight or nine years after that, right? I retired in 94, then I didn't play for five years, and then I played doubles for six years because I really enjoyed it. But, yeah, 94 was my last year. And so I played my last match in the garden in New York, in November. It was a Tuesday, and my parents were with me.

And on Friday, my mom said I looked 10 years younger because all that stress was finally gone. So I think it's fair to say that you both contributed a lot. to the state of women's tennis, the popularity of women's tennis, because the rivalry between the two of you, these two amazing tennis players playing against each other, that really attracted a lot of crowds. And it was a thing, like your friendship and your rivalry together. It was a thing.

It was a story in the press. People wanted to see it. And I'd like you each to talk a little bit about how you saw the state of women's tennis changing and what you think you contributed to that. Well, for me, I could sense that tennis was becoming more global after the Billie Jean King generation. Billy Jean, we have to give full credit to her and the original nine for really working hard to create a tour. and provide that provide a good living for women tennis players and, you know, equal prize money. And she was the pioneer. But we were the next generation.

And they needed us also to carry the torch. So when Martia and I came along, I think our rivalry brought it to another level, whole new level, because Martina and I brought our own set of fans to the plate. And Martina, we were so different. She came from a communist country. I came from America. I was a baseliner. She was a servant volleyer. She was emotional. I was cool and calm. So we both had our own set of fans. And I think we brought more eyeballs to the TV. And we brought more bodies into stadiums. And that would, you know, and enhance the game of women's tennis. What about younger players know? Do you watch a lot of tennis? And do you think that they're bringing something new to the table on helping to expand women's tennis?

Yes, so both Chris and I do commentary for different channels. So we work at all the majors. So we're still, you know, have the finger on the pulse of the game. And, yeah, because of TV, tennis has become much more international. And then when you have a player from that country, then they, that excels, then they, you know, they bring it to the new generation in their country and expand the map again. when Li Na won the Australian Open or the French Open was the first major, she won first Chinese player, first player from Asia to win a major.

Oh my God, tennis exploded in China. And now you have a lot more players playing as Chinese players because of Lina paving the way for them. So every time you get a player from a different country, it kind of expands the map in that way. And when the Williams sisters came along, we have now more women of color. playing, and they were great influence to women all over the world. I think the players nowadays

have more of a social conscience also, so they're good, they're very outspoken about what's going on in the world, and they're really good at, you know, bringing these issues to their platform and talking about whether it's the mental health or whatever, you know. Naomi Osaka, Naomi Osaka. Exactly. Inclusion, you know, all this. They tackle these subjects with class. And so I think that they're very bright that way.

And, you know, I think it's in a good state right now. Thank you both so much for being on our show. And thank you for participating in that documentary because it's really good. Thank you. Thank you, Terry. Chris Everett and Martina Navratilova are the subjects of the new Netflix documentary, Chris and Martina, the final set. We recorded our interview a couple of weeks ago. Late last week, Everett disclosed she'd been diagnosed with a recurrence of ovarian cancer.

We send her our best wishes. Tomorrow on Fresh Air, we'll talk about the conflicts between politics and the arts. Our guest will be Isaac Butler, author of the new book, The Perfect Moment, God, Sex, Art, and the Birth of America's Culture Wars. Butler said, the conflict had a transformative effect on him because at the same time. same time the culture wars hurtled toward their climax, Art saved his life. I hope you'll join us. To keep up with what's on the show and get highlights of our interviews, follow us on Instagram at NPR Fresh Air. Fresh Air's executive producer is Sam Brigger. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our engineer today is Adam Stanishefsky. Our interviews and

reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Anne Reboldinato, Lauren Crenzel, Teresa Madden, Monique Nazareth, Thea Chaloner, Susan Yacundi, Anna Bauman, and Nico Gonzalez Whistler. Our digital media producer is Molly C.V. Nesper. Roberto Shorak directs the show. Our co-host is Tanya Mosley. I'm Terry Gross.