Fresh Air - Timothy Olyphant On 'Justified'

Episode Date: December 22, 2023

From now until the end of 2023, we're listening back to some stand-out interviews from this year. Timothy Olyphant is best known for portraying lawmen in cowboy hats. He reprises the role of U.S. marshal Raylan Givens in the eight-part sequel, Justified: City Primeval, based on Elmore Leonard's novel. He also played Sheriff Seth Bullock in Deadwood. He spoke with Dave Davies about the roles. Film critic Justin Chang reviews The Zone of Interest.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

This is Fresh Air. I'm Dave Davies. Today we begin a series featuring some of our favorite interviews from 2023, and we start with actor Timothy Olyphant. He's performed in dozens of roles in film, television, and theater. He's best known for playing two iconic lawmen, Sheriff Seth Bullock in the HBO series Deadwood and a subsequent film, and Deputy U.S. Marshal Raylan Givens in the FX series Justified, which earned Oliphant a primetime Emmy nomination. Among his many other roles, he starred with Drew Barrymore as the husband of a realtor-slash-man-eating zombie in the Netflix comedy series Santa Clarita Diet. Trust me, it's funny. And he played the tour manager of a rock band in the

Amazon Prime series Daisy Jones and the Six. In Justified, Oliphant's character, Deputy Marshall Givens, is reassigned to his native eastern Kentucky, where he chases a bunch of colorful criminals for six seasons, some of whom he's known since childhood. That franchise was revived in the new FX series Justified City Primeval, which, like the original, is based on the books of Elmore Leonard. I spoke to Oliphant in July about the new series, in which his character Givens, now in late middle age, finds himself in Detroit dueling with a sociopathic criminal in a distinctly urban setting. Timothy Oliphant, welcome back to Fresh Air. Good to have you.

Thank you, Dave. It's good to be here. I feel like I got a little taste of what an obituary might sound like for me when you first started. I was like, is this what it's going to be like? Well, you'll never know, I think. It will hopefully be longer and richer. That's what they say.

The other thing I heard there, which is the self-involved neurotic actor i was like did he just say late middle age i was like why what's with the adjective late middle age isn't middle age enough the character's in his 50s right yeah whatever okay that's right the character is i don't know how they got i'm still, but they aged me up for the role, so it's all good. I'm glad you're hanging in there in your 30s. I have to tell you, Justified, the original series, which ran six seasons, is one of my favorite TV experiences ever. I look forward to watching all of those seasons again. You know, you chasing all these colorful, complex criminals in the hollers of Harlan County. Was that a really special experience to you, too?

Well, first, thank you. I appreciate you saying so. We had a ball making the show. You know, it's just one of those jobs. It was rarely a day you left the set where you didn't think, well, that was cool. You know, it was just always cool. Well, let's listen to a clip from the new series. You are in Detroit in this series,

kind of by chance, and you end up getting assigned to assist the Detroit police on a case involving the attempted murder of a judge. And this is a scene where you and some really gung-ho Detroit cops have identified a suspect, have stormed into his house, and he has fled to the basement and slammed the door, and his mom is standing by. And the Detroit cops are inclined to kick the door down and end this by force. And as we'll hear in the end of the scene, they kind of do that. But first, we hear you as Deputy Marshal Raylan Givens just try to talk to the suspect who's behind the door. Let's listen. Stay back.

I'm not messing around! Barry, what are you doing? I just need to figure it out. Hey, Barry? Not coming down here. No one's coming down there. All right, listen to me. You don't know me.

I'm Deputy U.S. Marshal Raylan Givens, and I can assure you no one's coming through this door. Yeah, you're damn right they're not. Don't need to talk tough. I'm just U.S. Marshal Raylan Givens, and I can assure you no one's coming through this door. Yeah, you're damn right they're not. Don't need to talk tough. I'm just trying to help. Jesus himself couldn't help him. My son's going to hell in a handbasket. Shut up, Mom! What does that even mean? It means you need to calm your ass down. Just talk to me, Barry. Come on. Face to face.

Give me one good reason I should do anything you say. Because up until now, no one has been hurt except a Cadillac CT6. But some of the agents and officers up here, Barry, especially the ones by the toaster oven, are a little hungry and a lot irritable. So if I was you, and I was sincerely interested in saving my ass, I'd open the door, talk this out and end it while I'm still breathing. Come on, Barry, what do you say? Head to the Okay.

Okay, stand down. I'm gonna need a few things if you expect me to do... What the hell is wrong with you people? Oh my god, you broke my nose! Not sure that was entirely necessary, but okay. Hey, that's how we do things in Detroit. You broke my nose, pal. You broke my nose. And that is our guest, Timothy Oliphant, in the new series, Justified City Primeval.

Yeah, huh, not sure that was entirely necessary. Marshall Raylan Givens always keeping his cool. In this series, you're dealing with a criminal, Clement Manziel played by Boyd Holbrook, who is – he's a truly malevolent character. But his lawyer is a woman that you end up dealing with in some interesting ways and that probably complicates Raylan Givens' life and the story. You know, Raylan has a way of making things a little more difficult for himself. And then probably because that unconscious mind, he kind of wants to deal with those issues more than he wants to deal with others. I will say that lawyer is played by the incredible Ange-Nue Ellis, and getting her on board was just a huge win for us, for the story, and for the audience.

Just a wonderful performance. And Boyd, same thing. The cast really just was incredible. I missed so many of the original cast. It was, it was, um, really missed them. Um, on the other hand, we got, we got really lucky with, with everybody that got involved in this one. And actors came in and these new characters came in and it was nothing like our show.

Um, no one we'd ever seen before. And yet every day we left the set and you're like, it feels like our show. You know, it feels like our show. We're in a different world. We've got all these different characters. And yet, I mean, driving around with Victor Williams, he plays one of the detectives, the banter between us,

I just thought, this just feels like, are we sure we didn't shoot this in the previous series? Because it feels like home. Right, right. I think a lot of people really became aware of you with Deadwood, which was 2004, which is really kind of an amazing piece of television. Critically acclaimed and well-remembered. And this was – I guess you were in your mid-30s. And it's – I went back and watched some episodes recently.

You were the first name that appears on the screen. It's right there. Timothy Oliphant. And a lot of great actors in that. And it was a really unique set, right? I mean, David Milch did this and he actually built this mining camp. It's kind of a town, but he called it a camp. And he would change things in the middle of the day, right? Or in the middle of the week and then give you lines for the next day. I mean, was this a difficult, stressful acting experience? Yeah, everything involved. It was one of the most incredible acting experiences and still one of the most memorable sets I've ever been a part of.

And working with David Milch is like a gift that just keeps on giving. He was a force of nature. He was brilliant. He was madness. For me, it was definitely pressure-filled early on. And I was surrounded by incredible talent, most of them probably around my age now. And they were just a marvel to watch.

It was an incredible set. Yeah. And you're getting, you know, pages that you have to learn for the next day. And the language is not typical. Dave, we were getting pages that we had to learn by lunch. Okay. We, you know, like, well, you know, we can shoot this other scene while you learn that. No, we, he was writing everything.

It was, it was an unbelievable to watch him go. Yeah, and the dialogue was in this archaic sort of Victorian language, which I would assume would not be so easy to memorize. No, easy to memorize. You know, when the writing's good, easier to learn. When the writing's bad, that's when it's really tough. When the writing's bad, yeah, because you're like, what what do i say again because you're like it just doesn't connect to anything um this one was it was a mouthful and you know is in that regard but whenever he handed

you a page it was so vivid and so delicious challenging them just because there was a lot of work, but it was not difficult to, I mean, they stick in your brain. I can remember scenes, you know, from that show like it was yesterday. They're so vivid. I've read that, you know, you felt like you were just sort of barely keeping your head above water on these shoots. There were so many veteran actors around who were at the top of their game. I don't know, anything you learned from them that you can put into words? I remember going to the wrap party

after the first season, and I realized I wasn't in the gag reel very much. And I thought, that's a problem. You know, they're having, everyone's having more fun. I need to have more fun with this gig. And that was a big revelation for me. You know, I remember watching like Ian McShane and Brian Cox.

Weird. It would be in intense scenes. But the two of them, as soon as Cut was called, giggles, you know. And I thought, they seem to be carrying a little less weight on their shoulders than I am. You know, there's this trick. I've been more or less making a living kind of playing character roles. And there's often a bit of a pitfall when you play a lead role that you feel like the burden of the responsibility of being the lead and you can watch it with a lot of people's careers going from character roles to leads and and whether

their performances hold up that you can see they're oftentimes more comfortable in the character role where they get to kind of chew the scenery and then they bottle up a little bit when they become the lead and um you know when you talk about like doing justified i don't think i think of it as lead you know in that respect that's kind of what makes it really fun i just think i'm playing you know you can play those scenes as if you're the you're playing a supporting part you know you're playing a kind of a character role sometimes you can play some of those scenes like you're playing a supporting part, you know, you're playing a kind of a character role. Sometimes you can play some of those scenes like you're the bad guy, you know. And have fun with it. It's just way more fun. And then you just trust that the writing takes care of it.

And so I think the first, the beginning of Deadwood, that's what I felt. And then David's a lot, you know, David was a lot to, I mean, the set was a lot. It was overwhelming. And the pages the day before and just trying to figure out your place, you know. And also, it's the beginning of me trying to figure out how to be a squeaky wheel without being a problem. A squeaky wheel on the set. You mean kind of just wanting to tweak a direction or a line? The fact is most of these things, especially when they're, especially in television, but in all of them, it's hard to navigate how to advocate for yourself and trust that you're not going to be difficult, you know, that you're going to actually be helpful. And I think that was still still even at that point in

my life uh stressful for me and i think when that but when that show ended and i started getting my hands on bad material and i was like okay well you know i've seen how it's done right you know i've seen milch i've seen what it can be done i've seen these kind of things and so it was a like when i say it was a gift that kept giving, that's what I mean. I was able to go to sets and say, no, we could just rewrite this. And they're like, it shoots in three days. I was like, who gives a crap? I did this.

We could shoot this. We rewrite it and shoot it at lunch on Deadwood. You know what I mean? This can get better. A world of possibilities. Yeah, yeah. It. A world of possibilities. Yeah, yeah. It's a world of possibilities. The secret is that a lot of times, the more I started to advocate for myself, you know, when you get your hands on parts that are pretty good but could be better, but when you start taking more responsibility and having more fun with it, I found just the opposite happened than what I was concerned about.

I just had way more fun at work. I had way better relationships with the directors and the writers. But it all started, the conversation all started on the Deadwood set. You know, since I'd read that you kind of felt like maybe you were struggling a little bit in that role, with the responsibility of that role, I went back and watched the first three episodes, which you're very prominent in. Turns out I was great, right? What the hell am I talking about? Pretty darn good. I mean, I just say, I mean, you did not seem over your head. There was an intensity to it. You know, like this guy runs hot. You could simple and how to make it easy. And when it feels simple and easy, when all the work goes away, this is a really great place to work from. And it's hard not to look at early work and not see the work.

You know, in 2019, you kind of had a reunion because you returned to the character for the movie, Deadwood. And it was also written by David Milch. And quite a story. I mean, there's intrigue and gunplay and score settling and romances renewed and all of this. I was going to play a clip from the film. There was a beloved man in town, Charlie Utter, who has been shot to death. And it was a murder for hire engineered by this predatory businessman, Hearst, who wanted his land. And in the scene, we're going to hear you as Sheriff Bullock are talking to Al Swearengen, the brothel owner, who's a morally ambiguous character, but who was at times in alliance with Bullock. And they're discussing what to do about this, what about

this murder. It begins with Swearengen, who's played by Ian McShane, questioning your decision moments before to publicly confront the man behind the murder in the street. So Swearengen speaks first. Let's listen. You ever think, Bullock, of not going straight at a thing? No.

What's the move, Al? Wish the f*** I knew. Killing Charlie Utter changes the game. Say the man has an eyewitness to bring to bear. Name him. Samuel Fields. Was an eyewitness to what? Eyewitness to them, as did for Charlie Utter. And thereby need a good murdering.

Sad step in legal administration. Well, if it ain't for hers to follow the law, why the should it be for you? Now, how should I construe that look on your mug, Bullock? My job ain't to follow the law, Al. My job is to interpret it, then enforce it accordingly. And that is our guest Timothy Oliphant in the movie, Deadwood. What comes to mind when you hear that?

Well, I'll tell you two things. A bunch of things put a smile on my face. First of all, Ian McShane. What a force. I mean, just, you know, it's the best thing that happened to my career was, you know, being in a position to watch him work up close.

Something special. And, you know, I miss him. You know, that movie, all the cast, everybody involved, when we all reassembled. And, you know, I admittedly was dragging my feet. But when I got there, it was just very emotional and quite sweet. You know, it was only three years of my life, that show. But boy, it made quite an impression. And it was just great to see everybody. And just incredible, incredible group. It's a very special experience. Then, you know, it sounded pretty good.

I think I did all right. I think the other thing that is in that scene, which I want to give credit to, which is Charlie Almanza, the retired chief deputy U.S. Marshal Charlie Almanza, who was our technical advisor on Justified. And I leaned on him all the time. That scene, when I first got it, there was this statement there about following the law. And this time around, because I'd now known Charlie, I called him and I said, you know, he was available to me to pick his brain about things. And he said to me, no, your job is not to follow the law. I said, what are you talking about? He said, your job is to interpret the law, how you see fit given a situation.

That's what we do. And I picked up – I mean, next day I was in front of David and saying, hear me out. Yeah. And that's where that came from. That was a back and forth between David and I and then with Charlie and then back to David and I. And that last line, Charlie Almanza, he more or less wrote that. Yeah, especially in Marshall in, what, 1879 or whatever it was. That's exactly right.

Yeah, yeah. No, it was really great. And, you know, that collaboration, it puts a smile on my face. When I had forgotten that and when I heard that line, I was like, that was Charlie, you know, that was, and that also was kind of reverting back to what we were talking about before. When I first showed up for that job, I was trying to do my best and say the lines that were in front of me. And when we came back around to do the movie, I think I was just in a different place to be open to, I'm going to call an actual U.S. marshal and just talk to him and see what comes up.

And these gems happen when you kind of invest in that way. And like, it's that thing where you're like, it was a gift. It was not something that wasn't appreciated by David. It was something that was welcomed and everybody wins. It was that collaboration is puts a smile on my face. Timothy Oliphant plays Deputy U.S. Marshal Raelynn Givens in the series Justified City Primeval. It aired this summer and is now available for streaming on Hulu. We'll hear more of my interview with Oliphant after this short break. I'm Dave Davies, and this is Fresh Air. Hi, it's Tanya Mosley, co-host of Fresh Air. Before we get back to our show,

the end of the year is coming up, and we're reflecting a bit here at Fresh Air. We've loved sharing conversations with you in 2023. Leslie Jones, Barbara Streisand, Kerry Washington, Zadie Smith, Ronan Farrow, David Byrne, and so many others. And we're looking forward to 2024, hopefully with your financial support. This is where we want to say a big thank you to our Fresh Air Plus supporters and anyone listening who already donates to public media. Your support is the reason everyone has free access to NPR shows and podcasts. To anyone out there who isn't a supporter yet, right now is the time to start, especially with journalists gearing up for an important election year. Supporting Public Media Now takes just a few minutes and really makes a difference in what's

possible moving forward. So join NPR Plus at plus.npr.org or make a tax deductible donation now at donate.npr.org slash fresh air. And thank you. This is Fresh Air. I'm Dave Davies. We're listening to the interview I recorded in July with actor Timothy Oliphant, known for playing Sheriff Seth Bullock in the HBO series Deadwood and the 2019 movie of the same name. For six seasons, he starred as Deputy U.S. Marshal Raylan Givens in the series Justified. It was revived this summer with the series Justified City Primeval, which is set in Detroit.

It aired this summer on FX and is now available for streaming on Hulu. When we left off, Oliphant and I were talking about making the series Deadwood. You'd mentioned that the scenes that you would get from Meltzer, Deadwood and some of you, you still remember them. Is there a scene from Deadwood where you literally remember the dialogue? You might want to share with us. Well, I remember so many lines. And I can quote a bunch of them that just start popping to mind, but you're going to have to bleep almost every one of them.

That's the trick with that show. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I mean, but you, by the way, I noticed you're like, Tim, try not to swear, and then every clip I'm in has swearing. What's the deal? You're holding me back. Yeah. I remember, I'll say I i'll love this is one i'm

not even in i remember the f the future and uh is it uh tobolowski says you do not f the future sir the future s you and i was like wow that's good. I remember some of my own. I remember days. I remember doing that scene with Garrett Dillahunt where I call him a slant-eyed MF. And he says, I was born this way. And I say, who do you blame for the rest of the effing mess? I mean, it's just beautiful stuff. And more importantly, I remember Milch's quote unquote direction. You know, he didn't direct a single episode, but we did not shoot a scene

without him approving what we were about to shoot because his penchant for coming in and we'd be already well into coverage. And then he would start rewriting the scene and we'd have to go back and start from the beginning. So we would always make sure we had him there before we started rolling because he would invariably rewrite it before we started shooting. And in his rewriting, he was essentially directing. And so I have countless examples of incredible direction that he gave that has stuck with me forever. Can you conjure one? Telling Garrett Dillahunt when I was beating the shit out of him and he was like acting as if he just wanted to get out of there. He told Garrett a story. Now, who knows if it was true or not, but he's like, let me tell you a story, Garrett. There was a time I was in an alleyway and three

guys are coming my way. And I said to myself, these guys have no idea what they're coming up upon. And he goes, and now they're kicking me and they're kind of roughing me up and i'm thinking to myself any minute now i'm going to spring on them and then he goes now they've they've taken my wallet and my shoes and they're walking away and i'm thinking here i come i'm about to surprise them and he's like garrett that's. You know, the whole time I'm beating him up, he's telling Garrett, he's about to turn the tables on this guy. And these stories were so vivid.

And I don't even know, quite frankly, thinking about if it was actually usable direction, but it was incredible storytelling. And it was incredible insight into his life and a way to think about drama. I just go on and on. I remember doing the scene where we're having a town meeting And then I, Bullock and Hawks, you know, John Hawks, we show up and sit down and the meeting starts. And Mills comes in and says, no, no, no, no, that's not how these things worked. Nobody knows what they're doing. You know, nobody knows what to do. So everybody, he was a member of junior high.

You go to the dance and you're standing against the wall. You got your hand up against the wall because if you take your hand off the wall, this thing might fall over. This building might fall down. So you better be over here just making sure things stay upright. He would start directing everyone to do that. And then Bullock comes in and he's been in government. So he's going to take a seat. And then everyone's like, oh, OK, we're going to sit down.

OK. And then he said everyone should be staring at everybody and trying to look at the person next to them and their body posture to figure out how they should sit at the table. Because no one knows how to sit at the table. You don't know how to serve the government. You don't know how to sit at the table. You don't know how to serve the government. You don't know how to sit at a game. Should we be serving peaches? Maybe we should have – it was all just watching him take over and giving us this insight into not just performances but into history and how humans work Since we've talked so much

about David Mills I guess we should know he was diagnosed with Alzheimer's a few years ago right? Do you know what his condition is? I haven't talked to him in a bit I've seen some of his family and I know some of the cast members have been in there

I can just tell you I'm thinking of them. It's been a bit since I've spoken to them. But, yeah, my heart goes out to him and his family because I saw his son just a few weeks ago. And that's just an ugly disease, just a very heartbreaking disease. It is fun to hear you be funny after these intense roles where you play lawman. And I thought we'd listen to a clip from an appearance you made on Curb Your Enthusiasm, the Larry David vehicle. This episode is where Larry and some of the regulars in the show are flying to Cabo for a destination wedding. Your character, Mickey, is the groom, and everybody's staying in a really nice resort.

And in this scene, Larry David shows up at your room kind of a little late at night, and he has spent the day noticing that everyone seems to have gotten a nicer room than he did. But he's coming to you because due to some classic Larry plot twist, he had to come without his luggage. And so he doesn't have a toothbrush. And so he's knocking on your door to see if you can help. Let's listen. Oh, okay, boss of Larry. What? Oh, my God. Are you kidding? Are you kidding me? Eh, not bad, huh? Not bad. This is unbelievable.

How's your room? It stinks. No. Yes. It was supposed to be great. It's not great. I said to you guys, the rooms are great. You're gonna love them. Yeah, I know. I know, but my room's not great at all. Everybody's got a better room.

I'm gonna talk to somebody. So, what, you just think this is some kind of, uh, accident, that I have a-a bad room? Oh, come on, Larry, come on. Mickey? Get like that. What's-what's going on? Oh, hey, Sasha, congratulations. It's late.

She's not wrong. Yeah, it's-it's a-it is late. Um, do you happen to have an extra toothbrush by any chance? We do have an extra toothbrush. You have an extra toothbrush. Fantastic. I can't believe it. That's so great.

I'm sorry. I misspoke. It's for us. What do you mean? I have an emergency. It's an emergency. I don't have a toothbrush. But that's your emergency.

This is for in case we have an emergency. You're not going to have an emergency. What makes you think you're going to have a toothbrush emergency? Look at you. You're having an emergency right now. Mine's a fluke. You have a fluke emergency. This whole thing makes me nervous, Larry. It's a fluke emergency. Toothbrush emergencies

it's one in a million. You're probably right. I won't have a toothbrush emergency. And you know why I know that? Because I have a f***ing extra toothbrush. Our guest Timothy Oliphant on Curb Your Enthusiasm. Tell us a little about the experience. Is it ad-libbed? Is it all

lines? What's the experience working on a scene like that? So there's an outline. It's the best. There's an outline. You show up on that particular day. You show up. We're in this beautiful hotel down on the beach. And we have a little quick huddle.

Jeff Schaefer co-runs the show that Larry was directing. And we huddled up. And he says, OK, read what the scene is. Larry shows up. He's upset because everybody's room is better than his room. And then you say, why are you here? And he says he needs a toothbrush. You tell him you have one, but he can't have it. All right, let's go. And then you start shooting. That's it. That's literally it. You, the next thing that happens is they pick up the cameras and they've already

marked it and you just start shooting and it's, uh, couldn't be more fun. Did you do several takes? You know, Jeff will say, look, this first take might be seven, eight minutes long. Don't worry. And it might not be funny at all. Don't worry about it. We'll just, we'll, you'll kind of, we'll just do it again and just narrow it down and, you know, we'll just find it. And then usually every take, you just find a little something, a little gem that they like, you know, little accidents happen. You know, I like, you know, we like when you say, isn't it great? Your room's not great. The more you can say the word great, we like that. You know, so there's a lot of, isn't this great?

That's great. Yours isn't great? No, they said they'd be great. And it's kind of the tone of the show, you know. Somewhere, as I recall, somebody mentioned toothbrush emergency as if that was a thing. And then, you know, oh, we like that. You know, lean into the toothbrush emergency. Try to...

And you just kind of discover it as you go. You shoot way more than you end up using, but it goes quick. And Larry's a very generous laugher, so it was very... And I am too. So we spent a lot of time, two people laughing, totally unusable.

That's what I was going to ask if you broke up a lot, yeah. Oh, my God, I'm terrible. I'm the worst. I laugh at my own jokes. You know, it's not proper behavior. You know, earlier when we were talking, you were talking about, you know, studying the craft of acting. And I think you said something about kind of the drama and comedy

are kind of the same thing. They're somehow connected. I was just thinking because, you know, the role in Deadwood is so serious. It's all a comedy, though. I mean, I know it's as a comedy. If I'm engaged with the writers and the back and forth, as far as I'm concerned, we're writing jokes. We're writing, you know, the nature of drama is two guys walk into a bar, right? And then there's a rug pull. That's what Elmore is. That's what our our show was you're just looking for the rug pull you're looking for taking it a direction you didn't see coming you're looking for what is both totally unexpected but yet inevitable and that's the nature of a joke so you know even in Deadwood as we went along and uh you know the my shoulders started to drop below my ears. There's comedy there. David's writing's really funny. I mean, it's just tone after that.

It's just finding a tone. That's what shifts. Anyway, that's what I'm selling. I don't know if you're buying it. I'm sticking to that. There's no difference between drama and comedy it's all the same thing let me reintroduce you we are speaking with Timothy Oliphant he plays Deputy U.S. Marshal Raylan Givens in revival of the series Justified it's titled Justified City Primeval we'll talk more after this break. This is Fresh Air. This is Fresh Air, and we're speaking with actor Timothy Oliphant.

He plays Deputy U.S. Marshal Raylan Givens in the revival of the series Justified. It's titled Justified City Primeval. I want to talk about one more role of yours, and this was a road manager for a rock band in the series Daisy Jones and the Six. It's on Amazon Prime. It's about a band that hits it big and then breaks up due to drama among its members. And you're a veteran road manager. And this is a scene where you're describing your job on tour with this rock band. And we're going to hear you talking to a mechanic because the band's bus has broken down and you need him to get the part right away.

And he says he can't. And you essentially bribe him with concert tickets for his kids. But the scene begins with you describing the job of a road manager on a rock tour to an interviewer. Let's listen. Let me tell you what it's like to manage a rock band. We're driving all over, hell and creation. City to city, roadies and crew the whole night. And not one person, not one, ever asks how we're always stocked up on gas.

Or beer. Or the special tea days he likes that you can only get shipped in from Thailand. No one says thank you. No one notices a damn thing. Until something goes wrong. I know. You said you won't have that part till the morning. But let me ask you something.

You like rock and roll? Can't say I do, partner. I bet your kids love it. You get me that crankshaft, in the next half an hour, you could be father of the f***ing year. And he hands him two tickets to the big concert. That's our guest, Timothy Oliphant, as the manager of a rock band in the series Daisy Jones and the Six. You're wearing kind of a Mick Jagger haircut, I guess I'd say, shades and a heavy mustache. You know what? Nice observation, because I think I showed up with a picture of

Mick Jagger and I said, this is what we're looking for right here. We want this. This is what we're going for. Yeah. And the glasses. I said, listen, I would like to wear glasses in every scene. And if you don't want them on my eyes, I just want them in my hair. I just want them propped up on the top of my head. And I said, if you agree to that, I'm in. Sometimes with some of these jobs, you know, you let the hair and the wardrobe do all the work, you know, just takes care of it for you. It just takes care of everything for you. You just act accordingly. You know, it's like putting on the Batman outfit.

You're like, okay, there you go. You don't have to do much. Well, the other thing about this is that it's set in the 70s, and everybody is smoking all the time. I mean, I think in that scene, you're actually taking a puff while you're offering the guy the concert tickets. I was just wondering on the scene, did people choke up with all that smoke in the air? It was a lot. And I'm guilty of, this is my acting tip for the young actors out there. If you can eat during a scene, be chewing something or smoking, it makes you seem like you're a way better actor than you are.

Because it just grounds everything. It gives you something to do so i was i would not every time we were about to roll i'd tell the prop guy cigarette give me a cigarette i'm gonna work this cigarette as much as i work i every scene i'm i don't know if you can find a scene in that show where i don't have a cigarette you know but that's not because i thought the character smoked all the time i was like oh this is just me more better for my acting. You've achieved some real stature in your career by now. I wonder how often you're recognized in public and whether you ever wear a cowboy hat in public. I'm not adverse to wearing hats.

I throw a hat on quite often. Not often a cowboy hat. You know, it depends. When in Rome, but generally there's a hat on quite often. Not often a cowboy hat. You know, it depends. Went in Rome, but generally there's a hat on my head. How much am I recognized? You know, I don't know. I don't know what's normal. You know, my life is relatively boring where I just go to the same places all the time. And so I don't think anyone thinks of me as a celebrity. If I'm at an airport or if I got lost and found myself in a mall, I guess it changes the narrative. But I've been really lucky.

You're able to live your life. I'm getting away with it. I've gotten away with it for a long time. And I think also, and it's a testament to the roles I've been allowed to play, I'm convinced that if you play like a character that seems kind of cool, then people try to be cool around you. So I get what is the best thing you can get in show business. I often get someone who comes by and just says,

hey man, like your work, and then keeps walking. And I always, if my wife is next to me, I often get someone who comes by and just says, hey, man, like your work, and then keeps walking. And I always, if my wife is next to me, I say, honey, that's as good as it gets. Didn't ask me for an ounce of time or anything, just wanted to pass that along. And that just means the world. I just want you to know that's the coolest thing you can do. Well, Timothy Olyphant, thanks so much for speaking with us. It was a pleasure, Dave. Thanks for having me. Actor Timothy Oliphant recorded in July. He revived his role as Deputy U.S. Marshal Raylan Givens in the FX series Justified City Primeval.

It aired this summer on FX and is now available for streaming on Hulu. Coming up, Justin Chang reviews the film The Zone of Interest about the Nazi who oversaw the Auschwitz concentration camp. This is Fresh Air. This is Fresh Air. Earlier this month, The Zone of Interest was named the Best Picture of 2023 by the Los Angeles Film Critics Association. Our critic Justin Chang, who's a member of that organization, says the movie is a chillingly restrained drama about the real-life Nazi who oversaw the Auschwitz concentration camp. It's the latest from Jonathan Glazer, the English director of the movie Sexy Beast and Under the Skin.

Here's Justin's review. The zone of interest begins on a lovely afternoon somewhere in the Polish countryside. A husband and wife are enjoying a picnic on the banks of a river with their five children. They eat lunch and then splash around in the sunshine. It all looks so peaceful, so inviting, but something seems strangely amiss once the family returns home. They live in a beautiful villa with an enormous garden, a greenhouse, and a small swimming pool. But before long, odd details intrude into the frame,

like the long concrete wall edged with barbed wire and the ominous-looking buildings behind it. And almost every scene is underscored by a low, unceasing metallic drone, which sometimes mixes with the sounds of human screams, dog barks, and gunshots. It's 1943, and this family lives next door to Auschwitz. The husband, played by a chillingly calm Christian Friedl, is the camp commandant Rudolf Huss, who's remembered now as the man who made Auschwitz the single most efficient killing machine during the Holocaust. But the director, Jonathan Glaser, never brings us inside the camp or depicts any of the atrocities we're used to seeing in movies about the subject. Instead, he grounds his story in the quotidian rhythms of the Hesse's life, observing them over several months as they go about their

routine while a massive machinery of death grinds away next door. In the mornings, Rudolf rides a horse from his yard up to the gates of Auschwitz, the world's shortest, ghastliest commute. His wife, Hedvig, played by Sandra Huller from Anatomy of a Fall, might sip coffee with her friends. At one point, she slips into her bedroom to try on a fur coat. It takes a beat to realize that the coat was taken from a Jewish woman on her way to the gas chambers. We see their children go off to school or play in the garden, and some of their more violent roughhousing suggests they know what's going on around them. At night, the fiery smoke from the crematorium chimneys sends a hazy orange light into the bedroom windows. This is a movie that makes you wonder, quite literally,

how these people managed to sleep at night. Glazer and his cinematographer, Wugash Zal, shot the movie on location near the camp, in a meticulous replica of the Hess's real house. They used tiny cameras that were so well hidden the actors couldn't see them. As a result, much of what we see has the eerie quality of surveillance footage, observing the characters from an almost clinical remove. In its icy precision, Glazer's movie reminded me of the Austrian director Michael Haneke, whose films, like Caché and The White Ribbon, are often about the violence simmering beneath well-maintained domestic surfaces. It also plays like a companion piece to Glazer's brilliant 2013 sci-fi thriller Under the Skin, which was also, in its way, about the total absence of empathy. Mostly, though, the zone of interest brings to mind Hannah Arendt's famous line

about the banality of evil, which she coined while writing about Adolf Eichmann, one of Hess's Third Reich associates. In one plot turn drawn from real life, Rudolf is eventually transferred to a new post in Germany. Hedwig is furious and insists on staying at Auschwitz with the children, claiming, this is the life we've always dreamed of, a line that chills you to the bone. In these moments, the movie plays like a very, very dark comedy about marriage and striving. Look at what this couple is willing to do, the movie says, in their desire for the good life. Here I should note that the zone of interest was loosely adapted from a 2014 novel by the late Martin Amis, which featured multiple subplots and characters, including a Jewish prisoner inside the camp.

But Glazer has paired nearly all this away to extraordinarily powerful effect. He's clearly thought a lot about the ethics of Holocaust representation, and he has no interest in staging or recreating what we've already seen countless times before. What he leaves us with is a void, a sense of the terrible nothingness that the banality of evil has left behind. Justin Chang is the film critic for the LA Times. He reviewed The Zone of Interest, now in limited theatrical release. On Monday's show, A Questlove Christmas. Amir Questlove Thompson plays us Christmas recordings, some favorites and some unusual ones.

He's perhaps the most popular DJ in America, in addition to being the co-founder of The Roots, the house band for The Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon. I hope you can join us. To keep up with what's on the show and get highlights of our interviews, follow us on Instagram at NPR Fresh Air. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our senior producer today is Roberta Shorrock. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham, with additional Chaloner, Seth Kelly, and Susan Yakundi. Our digital media producer is Molly C.V. Nesper.

For Terry Gross and Tanya Mosley, I'm Dave Davies. All of us on Fresh Air wish you a happy holiday.