Fresh Air - To Shed Luke Skywalker, Mark Hamill Turned To Voiceover Work

Episode Date: June 3, 2025

Mark Hamill played Luke Skywalker, one of the most iconic heroes in movie history. His latest film, The Life of Chuck, is an adaptation of a Stephen King novella. He spoke to Fresh Air about auditioning for Star Wars, voiceover work, and the advice Carrie Fisher gave him.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

This is Fresh Air. I'm Terry Gross. Our guest is actor Mark Hamill. He's in the new movie The Life of Chuck, directed by Mike Flanagan, who adapted the movie from a Stephen King story. Hamill spoke with Fresh Air's managing producer, Sam Brigger. Here's Sam. You might be surprised to hear that a movie with Stephen King and Mike Flanagan's names attached to it is not a horror movie. Flanagan's best known for horror films, and Stephen King is, well, Stephen King. If it is horror, the life of Chuck is of the existential kind,

asking questions like, are the length of our lives predetermined by supernatural forces? Does fate control us? Are we actually the product of someone else's imagination? Mark Hamill plays Chuck's grandfather, Albie, a hard-drinking accountant, a kind man but haunted by his secrets. When you hear Mark Hamill's name, it's hard not to think of an epic story that took place a long time ago in a galaxy

far, far away, as Hamill played one of the most iconic heroes in movie history, Luke Skywalker in the 1977 film Star Wars, a movie that changed Hollywood and the larger culture. Hamill was Luke in the original trilogy and reprised the role in the last trilogy that began in 2015. Hamill's other big recurring role, one that he had for three decades, was as a villain. He was the Joker in Batman the Animated Series, part of his long career as a voice actor. He said he would stop doing the voice of the Joker though,

when the actor who played Batman, Kevin Conroy, died in 2022. This is not the first time Hamill has worked with the director of The Life of Chuck. He also appeared in Mike Flanagan's Netflix horror series, The Fall of the House of Usher, as a lawyer and fixer named Arthur Pym. Let's start with a clip from the life of Chuck. Here Albie is going over his grandson Chuck's math homework. Chuck lives with him since his parents died in a car accident. Chuck's good at math, but his passion is dancing, and Albie's about to give him some tough love.

Some math, math that's called statistics or probability, It could tell you stuff about your future. It could tell you, for example, you're more likely to be drafted by a major league sports team than to make a real living as a dancer. The world loves dancers, it truly does. But it needs accountants. So there's much more demand, so there's much more opportunity. I know that might hurt, but it's the truth. Math is truth.

It won't lie to you. It doesn't factor in your preferences. It's pure that way. Math can do a lot of things. Math can be art. But it can't lie. So take another run at those two, because, Chucko, you are good.

You have art in you. That's a scene with Mark Hamill, our guest in the new movie, The Life of Chuck. Mark Hamill, welcome to Fresh Air. Thank you, Sam. So you've worked with Mike Flanagan before. Did he come to you asking you to play this role? Like, what did he tell you about it? Well, I don't know, there's a phone call or an email saying, I'm doing a movie based on a Stephen King novella, and I think there's something that would be good for you.

So I immediately ordered it on Amazon. It's in a collection called If It Bleeds. There's three stories. I was expecting some sort of epic supernatural, you know, horror epic. And I was just astonished at how atypical it was for Stephen King and how Mike had never done anything quite like this. So, you know, I mean, Stephen King has done Green Mile and The Body and Shawshank. He's pretty versatile, but nonetheless, he still is. Yes, exactly. They're both very versatile, but you just assume that, you know, the two of them together, that's what they would come up with. But, I mean, I was delighted. I started reading this thing, and it's told in reverse order,

as you say. And I had to tell the producers, I said, you know, I don't know how well I'm going to do when I'm supposed to go out and promote this thing, because how do you describe the indescribable? My advice to people is to just go. Go unprepared. Don't read reviews, because there are elements that you recognize from Stephen King, you know, apocalyptic themes, a haunted room, but that's not the focus of the picture. It's about the impact on one person's life and I don't know, just the nature of living. The movie itself might be indescribable, but one thing that is describable is the mustache you have in this movie, which is like a Wilfred Brimley soup straining Walrus kind of mustache.

So is that yours? Did you grow that thing? Yes, I grew that thing. And when I found out I was going to do it, I just stopped trimming it. And when I sat down, you know, makeup and hair are critical collaborators, makeup, hair, and wardrobe. And I said, just take all the color out of

my hair. I want to have white hair. And they whitened out the mustache. And when I selected the rimless glasses and put them on, I looked in the mirror and went, oh, my God, I'm Geppetto. I look just like the Disney version of Geppetto and Pinocchio, but that's okay. We just listened to this clip, and what the listeners aren't seeing is how the speech is going over with the young Chuck, and his eyes are as big as saucers. I mean, it's a nice speech you're making, but you're basically kind of crushing his dreams. You're like, don't be a dancer, be an accountant. Did you ever get... Well, I was wondering, did you ever get that version of that speech when you were young and full of acting ambitions?

Are you kidding? Yeah. I'm the middle of seven children, career naval officer, and they thought I was nuts. They said, you can't be in show business. We don't know anybody in show business. We don't know anybody who knows anybody. It's just ridiculous. You got to get your degree so, you know, you could be a teacher. You know, you could teach drama. No, I wasn't encouraged at all until my senior year in high school. My father got transferred to Japan. I went to Yokohama High School. And

the drama teacher recognized my passion because I had, for the first time, gone to Broadway and seen several Broadway shows. I tagged along with my father on a business trip. We were living in Virginia when he went to New York., I went and saw Broadway shows. And see, the thing is, I knew in my soul very early on, I mean, like grade school that I wanted to be in this business. I didn't know if I was gonna be an actor, but the two examples I always remember are seeing the original Black and White King Kong

and just being blown away, not knowing how they made dinosaurs come to life. I just thought, somebody goes to work and makes these things happen. I want a job where I bring a gorilla and dinosaurs to life. Or if I can't do it myself, I could certainly be an assistant. So I was really into that.

And there was a Walt Disney program that had Clarence Nash, this distinguished gentleman with white hair, step up to the microphone, and he was the voice of Donald Duck. Now, I was probably either in kindergarten or first grade when I saw that. It never occurred to me, well, of course, there's gotta be people doing the voices of Daffy, Duck, and Bullwinkle and all of that. And it really motivated me. I mean, I went to the, when I go to record stores, I go to the children's album section and look on the back of, say, a Rocky and Bullwinkle album, I go, oh, Paul Freeze, June Farré, Dawes Butler, you know, that. So you were doing research on the people.

Yes, yes, because I thought, wow, I would love to be in that business. Now, the Walt Disney program was the only one on television that showed you behind the scenes how movies were made. So it made it much more real to me. You saw the camera crew and the construction work and the wardrobe and the caterers. So I mean, as much as I was discouraged, I thought, you know, well, I'm not a bad cook. If I can't be a director or an actor, I could always cater the... You'll get there some way. Yeah... You'll get there some way.

Yeah, I'll get there some way. Because I don't have to be in the show, but I want to be near the show. Now mind you, this is all kept to myself because I had four sisters and two brothers that would have ridiculed me endlessly if I had been forthcoming about my intentions. But I was always that kind of drawn that way. I loved, I put on puppet shows. I had a Jerry Mahoney ventriloquist dummy. Oh, yes. That was instructional in and of itself. I hosted a talent show in the sixth grade with my dummy. And as most people realize, you don't have to take responsibility

for anything the dummy says. So you could be highly critical of teachers and the cafeteria food or you just say outrageous things and blame it on the dummy. And it was very empowering to get laughter. I realized this is what I want to do. I like being up in front of people and I love getting laughter You as you said you were the middle child of seven Your father was a career officer in the Navy a captain you were born in Oakland, but you moved around a lot, right? Yes, I don't even remember Oakland. I was probably six seven weeks when we moved I went to nine different schools in 12 years. I was perpetually the new kid. There were

advantages because I would say, okay, we're moving. What did I not like about myself where I am now? How can I improve? How can I change my friends or whatever? You were that deliberate about it? Yeah. I mean, I envied my cousin and many of my relatives who grew up in the same house from kindergarten to graduating high school, and some of them went away to college, some of them went to college, still stayed at home, which was, you know, I envied that at the time. But you know, I look back and I think maybe going, because since it's the Navy, you go,

you never are in middle America. It's coast to coast to coast to coast because you have to be, you know. Right, you're water. There you go. So I would go from San Diego to Virginia to San Jose to Pennsylvania, Pittsburgh. And you know, you've got a great overview of how different people are. I mean, I remember making the mistakes of wearing powder blue corduroy Levi's, which was very acceptable in Southern California to an East Coast school. And they were like, hey, look who it is.

It's surfer Joe over here. You know, I became known as surfer Joe. You're a pariah. Yes, exactly. Or at least mockable. Yeah. Well, you've said before that you were really like a clown as a kid.

Was that like trying to get people to laugh all the time, Yeah, well you've said before that you were really like a clown as a kid was that Like getting trying to get people laugh all time was that a way to break the ice as the perpetual new kid Yeah to a certain extent. I mean, I know that for instance when we went to Japan you rode the school bus for an hour because the high school was an hour away. And the jocks and the cool kids had the back of the bus. And the less popular and the nerds sat up front, which is where I sat. But one thing I noticed is I could get out of a bully's scrutiny or being put on the spot by a jock by making them laugh.

So I did impressions, you know. I remember doing, you know, holy holy donut Batman. Relax young chum. I would do, you know, Adam West and Burt Ward and you know, it was fresh in their minds even though it wasn't on in Japan. And I was immediately invited to the back of the bus to be sort of the jester for the jocks and the cool kids. But yeah, that's a very powerful tool. And self-deprecating humor really is winning when you can make fun of yourself.

Sometimes before other people can. Yeah, exactly. Preemptively attacking your own weaknesses. So, that sort of the laughter that you would get, um, being the clown, did that translate in some ways to your interest in acting? Oh, I'm sure. Because once you get in front of a crowd and you get the reinforcement of laughter

that they're getting the jokes, it's very empowering. I mean, I was a huge Marx Brothers fan, huge Laurel and Hardy fan, so I'd go read books about them. Or I'd look up reviews of when the Marx Brothers were on Broadway. I'd get microfiche and look up New York Times reviews and try to make it more real for myself. And so that was sort of my focus. And I was doing, if I didn't get a part in the school play, I would still, I'd do props or I'd work in the lighting booth or make

posters, whatever. I mean, like I said, be part of it. Of course. Not, I mean, like I said before, I don't have to be in the show. I want to be near the show. And I was so serious about it, towards the end, I looked at, you know, the, from 8 to 3 p.m. is just things that got in the way before the main reason I was there was rehearsal. You know, that's all I looked at, you know. And I kept my grades up, but what I'm saying, my focus was totally on being in show business. Mark, I thought we would start this part of the conversation with a cameo you did on The

Simpsons. You're appearing, I think it's a comic convention. You come out of a spaceship dressed like Luke Skywalker and with a lightsaber you knock over a bunch of cardboard cutouts of stormtroopers and also Wonder Woman for some reason. Let's hear the clip. Welcome futurists, cyber files, and the rest of you dateless wonders. And now to push this convention into hyperspace, the man who put the star in Star Wars a real burr in the dark Vader saddle Luke Skywalker himself Mark Hamill hey thanks everybody you know I'm here today as Luke Skywalker but I'm also

here to talk about Sprint. As you can see, you stand to save up to 17 cents a month over the more dependable providers. I talk about Star Wars! Yeah! You stupid nerds! He's trying to save you money in long distance! Now, I got a call from my agent because I've got good news and bad news. The good news is they want you on The Simpsons, which I adored at the time and was dying to get on. The bad news is you're playing yourself. No. Because that's the rub. I've done things

like they asked me to be on Big Bang Theory and I thought, oh good, I could play like, I don't know, Leonard's father or, you know, somebody integrated into the series that you hadn't seen. And they said, no, they want you to play yourself. Which is hard because you have to then think, well, wait a minute, who am I? I mean, when you're playing a character, you don't have to take responsibility for anything that you say or do. Here, you'd have to say, would

I really say that? Would I do... Anyway, it's not as much fun. But at least on Simpsons, I said, guys, you got to let me do something else besides myself. And so they let me play, I think his name was LaVell, the, you lot of the lousiest bunch of recruits I've ever seen. I was playing a Southern police officer guy that was training these guys. I, you know, I loved it. I mean, it was so much fun. Well, let's use this as a segue to talk about being Luke Skywalker a little bit. I think when you auditioned for Star Wars, you came in and didn't know what you were auditioning for, and you auditioned both for Carrie and Star Wars at the same time. Is that true?

Yes. The cattle call I eventually went to were actors from the ages of like 16 through 35 because they were looking at both Luke and Han Solo. There was no script. You just met with Brian De Palma who was casting Carrie, and sitting right next to him was George, who was casting Star Wars. And there was no information.

I mean, they just said, tell us a little bit about yourself. And I did. And after a few minutes, they said, OK, thank you. I mean, it's what they call a cattle call, where there are hundreds of people there. And you don't read for them. They don't talk about Carrie. They don't talk about Star Wars.

They're just getting a feel for whether you're right for something. So I didn't get called back on Carrie, but I did get called back on Star Wars and eventually did a videotaped screen test. Harrison played Han Solo and we only got about eight pages. I didn't read the whole script until I was given the part. And that's something I'll never forget. Sitting down and reading that script

and knowing that I had been cast, and even without John Williams' music or the special effects or anything, it read like a dream. But it was hell at the audition because I'm trying to figure out. I said, Harrison, you worked with George on American Graffiti.

Is this like a send-up? Is this like a parody of Flash Gordon? He's, hey, kid, let's just get it done, all right? So he was no help whatsoever. Same with George. George, I asked him the same questions. Are we, is this like a Mel Brooks version, like a send up? And he went, uh, well, let's just do it and we'll talk about later. Translation is let's just do it and we'll never talk about it later. George doesn't want to talk about backstory or motivation or all that. I mean, he's a real movie maker in the sense that he only really comes alive in the editing room. He just wants to get on film, whatever it is you're working on that particular day. He doesn't want to hear about backstory and all that stuff, that actor-y stuff.

Let's take another break here. If you're just joining us, our guest is Mark Hamill. His new movie is The Life of Chuck. He'll be back after a short break. I'm Sam Brigger and this is Fresh Air. Let's get back to my conversation with actor Mark Hamill. His newest movie is The Life of Chuck, in which he plays a kind but haunted grandfather. The movie was adapted from a story by Stephen King. Hamill has done a lot of work both as a live action actor and a voice actor for animated projects. He is of course best known as Luke Skywalker from Star Wars. Well it's interesting to me that you, reading the script, you knew that it was something special because back then, you know, sci-fi was, I mean, I think it's fair to say like

not super reputable, like they were low budget genre movies mostly. But you could sort of tell it was something special. Oh, yeah. Because first of all, I mean, it's not the—it wasn't that dry, serious, antiseptic science fiction. This was just, you know, it reminded me of Wizard of Oz with the gender switch. Instead of Dorothy getting away from Kansas and meeting all these fantastic creatures, it's Luke trying to get away from the farm and having his worlds altered forever.

So that's what I saw. I saw it more the fantasy side. And it was funny as hell. I mean, these robots are arguing over whose fault it is. I could tell I was the straight man to the robots. But to tell you the truth, too, between that screen test, months went by. I mean, I just assumed I didn't get it. And then when my agent said, oh, you got it and they're sending the script over, I'd forgotten

what character I played. Because I figured in the test I did with Harrison in the cockpit, he was the leading man. I seemed to be his annoying sidekick. So when I read it, the title page said, the adventures of Luke Starkiller as taken from the Journal of the Will's Saga Number One, The Star Wars. And I thought, oh, well, I don't remember, but I guess Harrison's Luke. And I start reading it and very quickly I realize, oh, wait a minute, this is through the eyes of a teenager. I must be Luke.

And it was very surprising to me. Well, I think we should get here a scene from the movie. This is from the beginning of the film when you're on the desert planet Tatooine. You're living with your uncle and your aunt who are moisture farmers, and they've just bought these two droids that you mentioned, C-3PO and R2-D2, and as thrilling as it sounds to be a moisture farmer you're dreaming of a different kind of life. You know I think that R2 unit we bought might have been stolen. What makes you think that?

I stumbled across a recording while I was cleaning him. He says he belongs to someone called Obi-Wan Kenobi. I thought he might have meant old Ben. Do you know what he's talking about? Hmm. I wonder if he's related to Ben. That would be a good question. I don't know.

I'm not sure. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I thought he might have meant old Ben. Do you know what he's talking about? Hmm. I wonder if he's related to Ben. That wizard's just a crazy old man.

Tomorrow I want you to take that R2 unit to Anchor Head and have its memory erased. That'll be the end of it. It belongs to us now. But what if this Obi-Wan comes looking for him? He won't. I don't think he exists anymore. He died about the same time as your father. He knew my father? I told you to forget it.

The only concern is to prepare those new droids for tomorrow. In the morning, I walk him up there on the South Ridge working on those condensers. Yes, sir. And by the way, I haven't heard that since I saw the movie. See, I see the movies once or twice, but I never go back and watch them again. So what's it like hearing that? Well, I'm reminded of all of it. And for instance, in 1997 is when he put out the special editions and re-released them

in the theater. So when Lucasfilm called and told me that, I said, oh, I'd love a copy. And when my kids heard about that, they said, you're not going to go see it? I said, no, I've seen it. And I said, by the way, you've seen it more than I have on home video. I mean, they'd watch it four or five times a week. And they said, yes, but we've never seen it on the big screen. I went, oh, now that's really important to me.

So I took them to each one. I took them to the first one, to Empire and to Jedi, in a theater. And that was in 1997. And I haven't seen them since. You haven't seen them since, wow. No. I have to deal with sort of disconnect, because the fans, it's very much in the present

and the future, because it's an ongoing franchise. So I imagine as an actor that an important part of your job is something that helps you do your job, is the feedback you receive from other actors in the scene, like from their energy, from their expressions, like you probably work off of each other. But for you, some of your most famous dramatic scenes

in these Star Wars movies, you're acting opposite a puppet. And even though, you know, it's Frank Oz, great puppet master, like, was that difficult? Was it difficult to, like, stay in the moment when you're expressing yourself to Yoda, who is not a real person, of course? Look, Frank Oz is so good that when I looked at Yoda

and he was manipulating him, I totally believed he was real. I mean, a lot of times, they would bury him out of sight, underground, you know, he had an earpiece and I had an earpiece so I could hear what he was saying. But I just loved everything about Yoda, the talking backwards thing and just all of it. And it was kind of lonely because I think the most just pure-out fun I had working on the original trilogy was when Harrison, Carrie, and I were all on the Death Star running around. It was all three of us together. It was so much fun. And we enjoyed each other's company. And then in Empire, I go away. I mean, I don't even get to keep C-3PO. I keep R2, but I go off to Dagobah, and, you know, there would be separate call sheets,

you know. On the main call sheet was Kerry and Harrison, Peter Cushing, whoever it might be. And then on my call sheet, I was the only human being. I was actor Mark Hamill, role Luke. And then it was puppets, lizards, snakes. It was all props. So during the research for this, I read an interview with you from People Magazine from 1981, when you were anticipating the release of the final movie

in the series, The Return of the Jedi. And speaking for yourself, Carrie Fisher and Harrison Ford, you said that once the movie comes out, quote, we'll be grown up and free. And for better or worse, I don't think you've ever been free of Star Wars. And I think at least one instance, the director told you they didn't

want to cast you because they didn't want Luke Skywalker in their movie. And this was for the film adaptation of a Broadway play, Amadeus, that you were starring in on Broadway. So did you hear that a lot? Did you get discouraged? Well, I guess. I mean, I didn't let it overwhelm me.

Milos Forman asked me to come in and read, because he was casting Costanza. And so, various actors would come, you know, female actors would come in and read the role. And after, I don't know, four or five auditions, I said, you know, Milos, I've done this role. I did the first national tour and then I did it on Broadway. Any chance that you consider me?" And he said, no, no, no, no one is to be believing that the Luke Skywalker is the Mozart. And I thought, well, at least, you know, he's forthcoming about that. And I love the movie and, you know, I didn't resent it. It's just that's just that's life.

If you're just joining us, we're speaking with actor Mark Hamill. and I didn't resent it, it's just, that's life. If you're just joining us, we're speaking with actor Mark Hamill. He's in the new movie, The Life of Chuck, which is adapted from a Stephen King story. More after a break, this is Fresh Air. A lot of voice acting, and I know you did voice acting before Star Wars,

but did voice acting provide you with an opportunity to kind of avoid some of those issues with typecasting that you were facing? Absolutely. Now, originally I went to New York and did theater because I knew I could do, I wanted to get character parts and be seen in a way that people would not expect to see me. And I did that. I lived there, I don't know, from 79 to around 92, I was doing theater. But when I came back and heard that they were casting the Joker, and I looked at the talent involved, this wasn't going to be the Saturday morning Super Friends. This was going to be written in a way that wrote up to kids. So I said, I really want to get in on this.

But it just so happens that they cast a joker and decided to go another way. So they'd already filmed three episodes, I think three, maybe four, with the original actor. And when I went into audition, you had to match the lip flaps, which is almost a different skill. Well, let's hear a little bit of your Joker.

This is from actually a movie called Batman Mask of the Phantasm. And this is a scene between the Joker and a gangster named Salvatore Velestra. And when I first heard this, I was like, oh, that guy's doing a pretty good Abe Vigoda impression. But it was actually Abe Vigoda who, of course, played a different Salvatore in The Godfather. But here, let's hear it.

Have a seat, sir. Tell me what's on your so-called mind. It's Batman. He's gone nuts. First he whacked Chuckie Saul, then then Buzz and now he's after me you know I've been reading lately how old guano man is wound tight enough to snap wouldn't it be great if I'm finally driven him off the deep end this isn't a joke Batman's knocking us off and you're the only one who can take him down look five

million upfront with whatever you want to finish him off. What do I look like? Paths control? Think you fool. Once he gets me, how long till he gets you? You know what I'm talking about. Your hands are just as dirty. Dirtier.

Don't touch me, old man. I don't know where you've been. Oh, Sal, no one could take a joke like you. Of course I'll help you out. Really? Certainment. No way is anybody going to hurt my pal, Sal. That's it. That's what I want to see. A nice big smile. So that's our guest Mark Hamill in Batman Mask of the Phantasm playing the Joker. So, you know, you go through a huge range of emotions in that scene. Can voice acting actually like be more tiring than live action because of that? Listen, Voice Over saved my life. When I got into it, I thought, where have this been all this time?

I mean, first of all, a character actor is defined by the fact that you don't see the actor, you see just the character. Well, Voice Over does that for everyone because you don't see the actor, you see just the character. Well, VoiceOver does that for everyone, because you don't see the actor. And what I'm telling you is since they cast with their ears, not their eyes, you get to play a huge range of characters

that you wouldn't get to play because you're not physically right. I could play six foot two mafia enforcers. I could play a German professor. I mean, it's just a dream come true in terms of their using their imagination. If you can match the voice to what he looks like, you're home free. And I just thought, this is spectacular. I mean, it's the ultimate job in terms of,

you don't have to memorize. You can just read all the lines. They don't care how you look. You can show up looking like hell. I said, I would be good never being on camera again. In fact, this might be better, because you don't have to age on camera. And I'm always shocked when I see myself, I go,

wow am I old? In 2015 you know you returned to play Luke Skywalker in the last of the Star Wars trilogies. You were only in the first few seconds, the last few seconds of the first one, but you had a quite a long story arc in the second one. And then back to a cameo in the third one. And then back to a cameo in the third one. You know, this character you've been so associated with for so long, but now there were new people who were involved in creating the story of your character. First of all, did you have trepidations about doing it again, or was it hard for you to accept sort of new people's ideas about what this character was that you, or was it hard for you to accept

sort of new people's ideas about what this character was that you, that was really so close to you? Well, my initial reaction is that we shouldn't do it. I mean, you can never go home again. And I was sure, I said, Harrison's not gonna do it. You know, he's got so much going on, and, you know, he gets frustrated when those movies are brought up so often. So I said, I know he's not going to do it.

But when I read in the press that he'd signed to do it, I thought, oh my God, I've just been drafted. Because if I say no and Harrison and Carey come back, I'll be the most hated man in nerddom. So I thought maybe it's fate. Maybe I should go back. So I did. I'd like to just play a clip from The Last Jedi. This is near the end of the movie. Your character, Luke, had been a recluse for years,

jaded about your experiences. And even when people came to plead you to help with the rebellion you were refusing you finally relent and you um for this scene the rebel forces are near complete loss but you appear to speak with Leia played by Carrie Fisher and in the solo you say something like I can't save him and you're referring to Kylo Ren who is the son of Han Solo and Leia who has gone over to the dark side.

Look. I know what you're gonna say. I've changed my hair. It's nice that way. Leia. I'm sorry. I know. I know you are. I'm just glad you're here.

At the end. I came to face him, Leia. And I can't save him. I held out hope for so long, but I know my son's gone. No one's ever really gone. So that's a poignant scene now, especially because, you know, Carrie Fisher died shortly after filming this movie. And you've said that sometimes when you were feeling ambivalent about being Luke Skywalker, that she would give you some tough love and be like, hey, you're Luke Skywalker, deal

with it. Yeah, she came to see a Broadway show of mine. And in the playb bill in my bio, I listed all my theater credits, and at the end said, he's also known for a series of popular space movies. And she goes, what's the deal? How come you don't mention Star Wars? And I said, well, I want to focus to show that I have a resume

that includes extensive theater credits. And she said, hey, get over yourself. You're Luke Skywalker, I'm Princess Leia. Embrace it. And I kind of saw what she meant, because you say to yourself, what territory do I occupy that no one else does? So she was someone that sort of put it in perspective for me.

And like I said earlier, you know, the disconnect between the current fans and myself is that for me, I had my time. And I appreciate it. And I'm always grateful for George for letting me be a part of it. But it's over. I mean, as an actor, you finish the job, you go on to the next job. You don't hang on to the prior job So I always have to really make an adjustment when I'm talking to fans where it's very much in the present It's very much about the future, which is fine

You know, I mean if it weren't for the fans, I wouldn't be here. And so I'm grateful to them. They know details I have never heard of. Somebody was asking me about, well, when you went to the Wookiees' home planet, I said, wait a minute, did we go to the Wookiees' home planet? Oh, well, and they'll tell me what novel it was in. And I don't read any of the supplemental material. Like I say, it was an important part of my life that's now over.

Pete Slauson Except it's not, but in some ways. Mark Hamill Yes, and it never will be. So, I've accepted that as well, you know. Pete Slauson Well, Mark Hamill, thank you so much for coming on Fresh Air. Mark Hamill spoke with Fresh Air's managing producer, Sam Brigger. Hamill is in the new movie, The Life of Chuck. After we take a break, John Powers will review the new film, Jane Austen Wrecked My Life, and will consider why Austen still has a place in pop culture.

This is Fresh Air. The new French film, Jane Austen Wrecked My Life, centers on a Parisian novelist who's having trouble with her writing and her love life. Then she goes to a Jane Austen themed writers retreat. Our critic at large John Power says that it got him thinking about the qualities that make Austen so popular. On the stock exchange of literary acclaim reputations rise, fall, go bust, and sometimes rise again. These days, few writers have a higher valuation than Jane Austen, who's gone from being merely a great novelist to becoming a marketable brand.

Beyond the scads of adaptations, we've had movies titled Austenland and The Jane Austen Book Club, Anne Hathaway playing the young Jane, and Mr. Darcy's popping up everywhere, from Bridget Jones's Diary to the Hallmark Channel's Mr. Darcy Trilogy. As I speak, the Keira Knightley Pride and Prejudice is enjoying a 20th anniversary re-release, while over on Masterpiece, that Queen of British television, Keely Hawes, stars as Jane's sister Cassandra in the series Miss Austin. Even France is getting into the act with the release of Jane Austen, Wrecked My Life, an amiable new romance written and directed by Laura Piani.

Steep in the filmmaker's love of the writer, the movie, whose title is just a tease, embodies the pleasures and limitations of the Austin boom. The appealing Camille Rutherford stars as thirty-something Agathe, a would-be romance writer who worked at the renowned Paris bookstore Shakespeare & Company. Profoundly blocked in her writing, emotions, and romantic life, Agat spends her time hanging out with her coworker Felix. That's the amusing Pablo Paoli, a likable womanizer who's her best friend. Agat is headed nowhere until she gets invited to a writer's retreat at the Jane Austen

Residency in England. There she meets, you guessed it, a grumpy, attractive man with whom she doesn't get along. His name is Oliver, and he's played by Charlie Anson, an actor who's like the Housebrand version of Hugh Grant. We sense that they're destined for each other, even as we wonder whether she's better suited to Felix, with whom she shared an unexpectedly passionate kiss as she left for England. Here, Agathe has just arrived in Britain and Oliver is driving her to the retreat. Almost instantly, they're at loggerheads. So have you been working a long time for the Jane Austen residency?

I'm Jane Austen's great, great, great, great nephew. Wow. Yeah, my parents set up the Jane Austen residency, but I'm not really part of the fan club. I'm just helping out because my father recently lost his driver's license. All right. And what do you normally do for a living then? I teach contemporary literature at King's. Sorry.

You teach literature, but you despise Jane Austen. I just think her work is a little overrated. Poor Oliver doesn't seem to grasp that he's playing the role of Mr. Darcy. In fact, Austen is rightly admired and beloved for creating enduringly memorable heroines, who were strong, smart, principled, often witty and willful. They have character. Even when they're wrong-headed, they're never trivial, especially about romance. You see, in Austen's world, a woman's freedom to act was profoundly constrained.

The choice of a man was a decision not just about chemistry, but financial security and social status. Indeed, Austen portrays the society that limits her heroines with x-ray eyes, showing us the greed, vanity, and class snobbery of a rigid social order where only a few live in comfort. And Austen's consciousness is a thrillingly powerful presence. She writes like the most dazzling of her own creations, with immaculately wrought sentences, a stinging satirical eye, and a sense of judgment that can be positively ruthless. There's nothing vague or wishy-washy about her. The risk in explicitly evoking Austen is that it instantly raises our standards,

and sadly, Piani, like nearly all of today's Austenites, can't match her models' clarity or elan. Her movie is tamer and more sentimental, and utterly unconcerned with society. In Agat, Piani replaces the brilliance and verve of Elizabeth Bennet or Emma Woodhouse with low-key neurosis, as if afraid we wouldn't like a modern woman who's sharp or sometimes unlikable. You keep waiting for Agat to act boldly, or at least say something genuinely witty. The movie is weighed down by all its allusions and borrowings, which become a substitute for creating something new.

Doing this is hardly impossible. Hollywood worked Austin territory marvelously during the 30s and 40s. Check out the shop around the corner, or the Philadelphia story. While over in post-war France, Eric Romer made a score of sharp movies about romantic desire and illusion, without ever needing to resurrect Mr. Darcy, for one last bout of pride and prejudice. Virginia Woolf famously wrote of Austen that, of all great writers, she is the most difficult to catch in the act of greatness. One measure of her greatness is that, two all great writers, she is the most difficult to catch in the act of greatness.

One measure of her greatness is that, two centuries on, filmmakers like Piani are still so inspired by her work that they want to make their own versions. As an Austin lover myself, I understand the temptation. And anyway, better that than constantly remaking Batman. John Powers is Fresh Air's critic at large. He reviewed the new film, Jane Austen wrecked my life. Tomorrow on Fresh Air, we discuss the faceoff between Harvard University and the Trump administration. The administration has frozen around $3 billion in Harvard grants and contracts and is trying

to stop the university's ability to enroll foreign students. In response Harvard is suing. We'll talk with Harvard law professor Noah Feldman. I hope you'll join us. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director and engineer is Charlie Kyer. Our managing producer is Sam Brigger. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Anne Rebaldonado, Lauren Krenzel, Theresa Madden, Monique Nazareth, Thea Challener, Susan Yakundi, and Anna Bauman.

Our digital media producer is Molly C.V. Nesper. Our consulting visual producer is Hope Wilson. Roberta Shorrock directs the show. Our co-host is Tanya Mosley. I'm Terry Gross.