Friday Night Comedy from BBC Radio 4 - Dead Ringers - 29th December

Episode Date: January 26, 2024

Jon Culshaw and Jan Ravens join Bill Dare, the long time producer and creator of Dead Ringers, to look back at the last ten years of the programme on Radio 4. Their focus is party leaders – the ones they most want to remember.We’ll hear a selection of the funniest party leader sketches going back to 2014 when Dead Ringers returned to radio and David Cameron vs Ed Miliband was the main show in town. Jon, Jan and Bill will whizz through the next decade giving us a behind the scenes glimpse of how party leaders across the spectrum were portrayed on the show.Produced and created by Bill DareA BBC Studios Production for Radio 4

This is the BBC. This podcast is supported by advertising outside the UK. BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. People of Britain. I know what you're thinking. Hasn't she gone yet? Yeah, that's very inspiring. Oh God, I'm so brilliant! What the hell just happened?

Stand on the left of the escalators on the tube. Londoners hate that. I'm incandescent with rage. Glad to be here, you brown strumpet. Hello, I'm Bill Dare, producer and creator of Dead Ringers, and I'm joined by two of the stars, Jan Ravens and John Coleshaw. Welcome. Hello there. Thank you very much. We'll be looking back at some of the more interesting party leaders from the last 10 years through the prism of the show.

Jan and John, cast your minds back. It's 2014 and a party leader is being asked about something called the migrant crisis, which seems odd to us now, but they were different times. The Prime Minister joins me now. Now, you have demonised these immigrants. No, no, no, I haven't. Prime Minister, you call them a swarm. Yeah, you know, but that wasn't my idea.

Well, whose idea was it? Oh, that's Wojciech, my speechwriter. Lovely bloke, but doesn't speak a lot of English. I suppose that's why he's so cheap. Works cash in hand. Apparently, in his country, schwurm means happy procession of proud cheesemakers and beaver ticklers. But the plight of these migrants is heart-rending. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, all right. I'll make a statement. Right, here it is. I am

deeply saddened by the news of, insert name of tragic event here. by the news of, insert name of tragic event here. David Cameron there, played by one of your co-stars, Duncan Wisby. Yeah, I love Duncan's David Cameron. David Cameron is a very awkward character. He's very anodyne, very plasticky, not a lot to get hold of. But Duncan's instinct, he found with Cameron a slither, this sort of waxy sense of dishonesty, wanting to leave the interview as soon as possible. You can almost see the sort of like shiny forehead and the wanting to get out of the

scene as quickly as possible. Duncan's instinct found that and turned him into this living, slithering character. Duncan is so brilliant at doing those characters that seem on the face of it to have not a particular thing to get hold of. He did similar with David Davis, the Brexit bulldog. And yeah, Cameron was one of his star turns. And how do we decide who does what voice on the show? Well, there's the very scary process of auditioning where, John, you give us your David Cameron. Lewis, you give us your David.. Lewis, you give us your David.

And so there's, yeah, and you choose, Bill. It does show very interestingly how all of our takes on different characters, they're all very, very different, but they're all still that particular person. We all do a different Farage. We all do a different Boris Johnson. That sort of same but different element is quite fascinating. Now, while David Cameron is lazing about in number 10, there is, of course, another party leader waiting to assume the reins of power. Finally, this was the night that Natalie Bennett

of the Greens made an impact. She joins me now. Too right, John. Too right, John. Not only did people at home warm to hearing sensible green policies like generating electricity from kittens and netting all future nuclear power plants, but when Farage had his freak out and started calling Ed a liar, and I screeched, Ed Miliband! Ed Miliband! I shattered every plane of glass in a 90-mile radius. Result? Windows are not eco-friendly unless they're made of gingerbread. are not eco-friendly unless they're made of gingerbread.

So, Natalie Bennett, head of the Green Party, Jan, you made her into quite a hit. I did. It's the last we've ever heard of her. And she was very timid, wasn't she? Trembly voice. Well, I think, yes, because another one like that was Angela Eagle. We did the same kind of character with her.

And I think it's amazing how a lot of politicians don't pay enough attention to their voice. And we see that again and again where politicians might have good policies. And actually, we're coming up to a few of those characters later in this programme where they might be very sensible, very clear politicians. But you sort of find it hard to listen to them because their voice doesn't sound authoritative. Of course, on the opposite extreme, we had Nicola Sturgeon and Arlene Foster who were anything but timid on the show. Well, Nicola Sturgeon's like that, such a wee sort of like, you know, really feisty and kind of, you know, hold me back or I'm going to lamp somebody. You know, and she was kind of a really great contrast to Boris Johnson, who she was sort of like her oppo. But yes, you always thought that she was going to kind of nut somebody, you know. And Deborah Stevenson portrayed her on the show really well.

And Arlene Foster. Arlene Foster, leader of the DUP at the time. Arlene Foster was that kind of, you know, she had that sort of curly mouth. And you always thought she was slightly menacing there. And so, Teresa, I've sent a car for you, Teresa. Just be a good prime minister. Put the blindfold on and get in the boot. OK, now we come to one of my favourite characters on Dode Ringers.

Here he is in his heyday. Look, can I just say, Jim... LAUGHTER ..when I go up and down the country constantly, what ordinary, hard-working Britons are saying to me on the doorstep is, who are you, why are you on my doorstep? LAUGHTER Are you from Domino's?

LAUGHTER Labour leader Ed Miliband, played by none other than John Coshaw. Oh, dear Ed, dear Ed, yes. One has to constrict quite a lot to get that voice. You know, if Tony Blair was at the top of one's register here, then you go down in the lift to about two levels before the basement. That's where you'll find Gordon Brown. Go down even lower, lower, lower,

until you're sort of, you know, at the earth's core and your inner being is constricted in knots. That's where the tone of Ed Miliband lies and exists. And I think there was one where he was on Who Do You Think You Are? And he was related to the flowerpot men. And I think that's because of the voice, isn't it? Yes, I think so.

That's where, you know, when you make your first leap, you know, from here, you know, what to you? Blah, blah, blah. Exactly. Blah, blah, blah. It's just a very, it's the kind of happy exaggeration that Dead Ringers often makes. His voice just doesn't make you, you know, you're not kind of thinking, oh, yes, here's a guy with authority.

The voice and the personality sort of fuse because I think he had a sort of pleading personality and the voice sort of matched that somehow. So it's not, I don't think it's just about, you know, the vocal apparatus, is it? It's sort of the personality as well. Oh, totally. There's the entire cocktail there. Yeah. Okay. Now our next party leader is inseparable from the Brexit referendum. Here he is on the show we recorded at lunchtime on the day after the vote.

I'm Nigel Farage. No, no, no, let me gloat. Welcome to my official Brexit victory podcast. So, there we go. I've won politics. Britain has voted to leave the EU, and quite rightly, I'm taking all the credit. The people have spoken, and what they've said is that they love me. Nigel the Herbert

Farage, a true people's politician. Finally, a Nelson Mandela for the whites. I knew vote leave were going to win, because these last few months, everywhere I've gone people have shouted, Leave! UKIP leader Nigel Farage, brought to life by Lewis MacLeod and writers Ed Amston and Tom Coles He was quite a hit, as a character, I mean Well, yes, as a walking caricature.

Because we portrayed him as a throwback, which he really is, a sort of 1970s Rothman smoking, beer drinking, sexist, xenophobe. And I kind of think our audience quite enjoyed the nostalgia value of that, the sort of Alf Garner effect. Yes, and the way that he...

What, you mean enjoyed it too much? Possibly, possibly. It's difficult, isn't it, that kind of question of making somebody who you consider reprehensible into a kind of fun character that people start to love. And I'm just thinking he's such a contrast to Ed Miliband because Farage, always optimistic, always ebullient, full of confidence. And, you know, that is an appealing quality. It is. It is. That's another thing people go for. Absolutely.

Now, for our next party leader, the Brexit referendum ends David Cameron's time at number 10 and he goes to put his feet up somewhere else. Following the bitterness of the vote, what the party and country needs is a safe pair of hands. I have just been to Buckingham Palace where Her Majesty the Queen has asked me to form a new government and Prince Philip asked me to make him a cup of tea

and don't forget the hobnob sweetheart. And I accepted both requests. Do you know that if you are born poor, you will die on average nine years earlier than others? If you're black, you're treated more harshly by the criminal justice system than if you're white. If you're at a state school, you're less likely to reach the top professions

than if you were educated privately. If you're a woman, you will earn less than a man. But I won't go on to list all the achievements of the previous Tory government. Theresa May, portrayed by you, Jan. Yes, it's interesting hearing that, which was the sort of the first, the first sort of sighting we'd had of her, really, because when she was Home Secretary, she basically never said a word, just stayed home and waited for the posh boys to screw it up which they duly did and um uh but yes

when she came out on the steps i mean interesting to hear that was my because sometimes you think you've got an impression and then you listen back to it like that one you think oh i didn't really have her because her her voice has that she's got a diplophonic voice. So she's sort of doing two voices at the same time. And I didn't quite have it there, more in the second half of that speech than the first. But yeah, she's got this diplophonic voice doing her own descant the whole time. And also the main thing about Theresa May is her tension.

She's held in tension the whole time. It's like she wants to laugh but the rest of her face won't let her. And so we portrayed her as this very tense person and that was and in the end you know she was

she had this great sense of duty. She was always sort of well prepared for anything. She was the first to turn up at the meeting but she had no sense of play, no sense of clubability. And that in the end, I think, was her downfall. It was that she was kind of quite a solitary figure. She was, you know, not surprisingly tense the whole time because she had the task of trying to sort of to get this Brexit deal together. Oh, sorry, I'll just I'll just get this. Hello? Hello Nick Clegg sorry about that. Um Nick um how can I help? Well I basically phoned to say you you're making a program about party leaders and you've left me out. Oh well um we can't you know cover everyone so we thought we'd

just concentrate on the well the more interesting ones. Fair enough. Sorry about that. I'll turn my phone off. We don't want Tim Farron phoning as well. Now, Theresa May, it's fair to say, struggles throughout her premiership despite having, according to some, a not particularly effective opposition led by a man who seems to have

two rather different personalities. Jeremy Corbyn joins me now. Good evening, Kirsty. Mr Corbyn, you're in a TV studio. You don't need the megaphone. I know that, Kirsty, but I am going to use it anyway. Why? Because I have realised that when I'm addressing the Durham Miners' Gala or wiring the crowds at Glastonbury. I am a dynamic and compelling speaker, whereas when I'm talking to just one person I can be somewhat dull. The sort of fellow who

corners you at a party and talks to you about gravel. Yes. Yes, that's two hours of my life I'll never get back. There are, in fact, two Jeremy's. The fiery Jeremy, who can inspire an entire generation. And the dreary Jeremy, who can spiralise an entire marrow.

There's Jeremy Corbyn. And Jeremy Borbyn. And you've decided to be the fiery Jeremy from now on. Absolutely right, Kirsty. But don't you have a duty to engage with, say, the media? In that case, Kirsty, perhaps you and I should have a nice long chat about the particularly coarse type of gravel that you cannot find. Jeremy Corbyn, thank you.

Thank you, Kirsty. Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn there, played by you, John. How did you find playing him? I was so glad for that sketch to have come along because, at last, here is the scenario that sums him up. We did often say that one thing to be careful of with Jeremy Corbyn is that there's a possibility he could suck the life out of your comedy sketch. Yes.

Writers didn't particularly want to write for him because I think they found it hard to make him funny. I mean, there was also, of course, the anti-Semitism row and there aren't many laughs there. I think we said, for the many, not the Jew. But that's as far as we went with that. Yeah, well, dead ringers always judges exactly when to, you know, do the, you know, the cat claw like that, but not to overdo it.

You're listening to Dead Ringers, 10 years of party leaders, with me, Bill Dare, and my guests, John Coleshaw and Jan Ravens. Our next party leader, like Corbyn, seems to us at Dead Ringers to have two rather different personalities. Here he is at the height of his campaign to lead the Tory party. Tory leadership favourite Boris Johnson joins me now. It's wonderful to be here, Emily, offering a positive message of hope. With your slimmed-down physique and sensible haircut,

you no longer look like you've been coughed up by a stray cat that eats lard out of bins. no longer look like you've been coughed up by a stray cat that eats lard out of bins. As you say, I am a changed man, more measured and thoughtful. Yes, yes, you do look and sound much more like a Prime Minister, but isn't there still one person who can scupper your bid? Who, who, who? Rory Stewart? Gove? No, the other Boris Johnson, of course. Ah! Ah!

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I've had to stop it, boss. I am being respectable and statesmanlike now. Mr Johnson, isn't the truth this new statesman like you is just an act and the real you is a lazy, sleazy, nasty piece of work? No, no, no, no, no, no. I have changed. I have a plan. One that engages with Brussels and...

Sod that, come to the dark side. We have haystack hair, dubious morals and all the buses with outrageous lies printed on the side you could ever want. No, no, no. Fight it. My shoe! I think he's got it. Boris Johnson there. Who played who, John? I did the sort of, you know, the one desperately trying to be sensible in a way which just simply cannot be contained.

That is going to rupture at any given second. And then in comes Sir Lewis with the wonderful... And all of those glorious... And that turned out to be a really good format didn't it, the good Boris bad Boris thing we did lots of that Tom Jameson and Neff Fountain sort of created this sort of good Boris bad Boris, that sketch was the first time we tried that

and in that sketch it was the real Boris and then it changed to good Boris bad Boris after that, yes that's right I always love the conclusions of those sketches when Lewis and I could sort of harmonise. He's another example of one of those characters that, you know, you wonder whether you've made him too lovable and funny. Yes, yes.

That's something to be very, very careful with. And show how the, you know, the bluster and the using comedy as a distraction and a deflection. you know, the bluster and the using comedy as a distraction and a deflection. Do all of that, but show it for what it is, that it's just trying to deflect the challenging questions away. Now, with the chaos of Boris Johnson's time at an end, the nation again looks to the ruling party to provide a safe pair of hands. And for this safe pair of hands,

they turn to a foreign secretary with a staggering sense of her own abilities. Dear Diary, Liz Truss here. But you knew that! Which other Foreign Secretary has got a Hello Kitty diary marked Top Secret Keep Out in a sparkly gel pen? I know! Now that I'm such a key player in the world stage, it's bye-bye pork market gags and hello Northern Ireland protocol.

It's riddled with impossible problems, like deciding which hat to wear on my trip. The Russian Liz Trusky number got so many likes on Twitter and nothing says don't mess with me like commanding and relevant headwear. So for Ireland, I've bought one of those Guinness hats you get in the pub. Don't! It's really important to show people that you understand their culture. So in prep, I've done a deep dive, fact-finding mission.

I spent two hours doing a Which Derry Girl Are You quiz online. Had to do it a few times, go back and change my answers because I wanted to be the sassy nun. Anyway, I've got to run. There's a potential leadership contest to think about. Say no more. And after my champagne fundraising event, Fizz with Liz was such a hit. I've got to go and get my vocal rest for my private musical recital tomorrow. Les Mis with Liz. I dreamed a dream of number 10. Dope!

How can we forget Liz Truss? Jan, you led the way in defining her character. So what inspired it? Well, I think it was when she was, I think she was environment secretary and she spoke at the Tory conference in 2014. And she made that speech about, I am going to Beijing to open up new pork markets. And then she paused for an inordinate amount of time and looked around with this grin like a haunted doll kind of as if to say well you know laugh applaud like you say this absolutely um untrammeled self-belief i think it was when she

was foreign secretary a bit and before she was leader that um we did a uh you know i was presented with a script and i said so you know i know, I've got this announcement. I am your new foreign secretary. And I just thought, this is absolutely unbelievable. And I just said, I know, because it just seemed like, you know, how is this possible? It's almost like even she couldn't believe that was possible. And this and it just sort of burst out of me and it kind of became her catchphrase. OK, moving on to our next party leader. of became her catchphrase.

OK, moving on to our next party leader. Leading the opposition since 2020 is a man whose main objective is probably to be as uninteresting as possible. Meanwhile, Sir Keir Starmer has revealed that after a tough day, he likes to listen to Beethoven. The Labour leader joins me now. That's correct.

Da-da-da-da. At the end of the day, Michelle, I like to relax by listening to Beethoven's Emperor Piano Concerto. You know, it transports me to an ethereal plane of joy. And you don't think that's going to come across to ordinary voters as a bit elitist and out of touch? Oh, is it? Right. Well, like I said, Michelle, at the end of the day,

I like to relax by listening to the pumping disco sounds of ABBA's Dancing Queen. Da-dum, da-dum, da-dum! Really? And you don't think ABBA is just music for hideously smug suburban middle-class mums? Oh, is it? Ah.

Well, um... At the risk of repeating myself, like I say, Michelle, at the end of the day, I like to relax by twerking to Nicki Minaj's truffle butter. Look at my pendulous buttocks gyrating, Michelle. Michelle! Mush it up on my little butt, rude boy. Not in my face, Keir Starmer.

Thank you. Duncan Wisby there playing Sir Keir Starmer. I think we portrayed him as actually more interesting than he really is. Yes, just saying, whatever will land positively, whatever will be with the wind. It's a little bit, just a bit turgid in that sense, isn't it? Duncan portrays him as this rather beleaguered geography supply teacher who can't quite keep control of things.

And this sense of being very, very overcautious. Yes. You know, he'll make a bit of progress, but then he won't seal the deal. He won't just sort of land it with some, you know, with some drama at the end. I think he's one of those people that has never, because I've met people that have met him and they say, you know, he's kind of great. He's a laugh. You know, he's good company. And you sort of think, well, bring it, you know, bring that because that's what you're missing. People aren't seeing that. People aren't seeing you.

And that's why they like characters like, you know, Farage and Johnson because they're sort of like, you know, it's all out there. And you want to say to Keir, put it all out there. But, you know, Duncan has this, it's a very, it's quite a contained character, isn't it? Constrained. Constrained, contained. Yeah, it is. Everything's sort of overthought.

I remember Alistair Campbell was once saying, you know, you've got to make the big moments count. Make them count and let them be defining. And I don't know, I think he just lets things fizzle a bit too much at the end. Now, meanwhile, in the Tory party, they turn to a very ordinary, unassuming billionaire who, after 14 years of strife, would surely be able to unite the party. Here's a clip from one of his first appearances on Dead Ringers and his bid to be party leader. Let me tell you a story about a young man who, armed with nothing more than a camera, a microphone and a professional film crew, dedicated his life to making high quality promotional videos. That's where my story began because high quality promotional videos mean everything to me. But I also recognise that many people in this country are struggling desperately with the cost of living

and rising fuel bills. And that's why my first act as Prime Minister would be to make sure every single person in the UK has the means to make their own high-quality promotional video. So with me as Prime Minister, people will look at Britain and say, the economy's in the toilet and people are starving and freezing to death. But some of their content is awesome. Rishi Sunak there. John, the voice took a while to come, did it? Yes, I think, what is it that we do with this character?

What is it that we aim at? You know, this sort of like, you know, loving the sense of content, shareability, soundbites, the digital world, which has made everything so superficial, but he sort of thinks it's important. He still sounds like a sort of a class creep. You know, he kind of sounds like a SWAT. And there's something sort of,

there's something sort of unpleasantly prissy about the voice, I think. There's always, there was always a danger of, you know, making it a little bit too, like Tony Blair. So you just got to, you know, take the staccato away, let it run, let it flow. And my favorite rishi

sunak line i think laurence wrote it um the closest you can get to ai while still remaining human well sadly we have run out of time before our final clip i'd like to thank john and jan for joining me our great pleasure well thank you very much for having us now when i started compiling this show i realized that if I stuck to chronology, we'd have to end with Rishi Sunak. And I thought, well, we can't have that. So instead, we'll close with another clip from one of my favourite Dead Ringers characters.

It's the day after the 2015 general election, which he rather surprisingly loses. So it's goodbye from me, and it's goodbye from them. Goodbye. And it's goodbye from him. Thank you for listening and happy new year every time we lost a seat i died a little with each and every defeat I tried to hide a little.

People of Britain, you made me eat my words. The truth has bitten. You prefer jocks to nerds. Please believe I did my best. I did my duty. Find someone.

That's our new quest. Someone to beat Lord Snooty. There was no job finer. But how strange the change From leader to resigner Now it's time

To say goodbye Bye. Now You're Asking. Each week we take real listeners questions about life, love, lingerie, cats, dogs, dentists, pockets, or the lack of, anything really, and apply our worldly wisdom in a way which we hope will help,

but also hopefully entertain. Join us why don't you? Search up Now You're Asking on BBC Sounds. Thanking you.