Friday Night Comedy from BBC Radio 4 - Dead Ringers: Ep 5. Man of Steel, Woman of Salt Path

Episode Date: July 18, 2025

The Dead Ringers team are back to train their vocal firepower on the week’s news with an armoury of impressive impressions.This week: A Salt Path surprise, a Man of Steel (tariffs), and Postman Pat deals with the Post Office Inquiry Report.Cast: Jan Ravens, Jon Culshaw, Lewis Macleod, Jess Robinson, Duncan Wisbey.This episode was written by: Nev Fountain & Tom Jamieson, Laurence Howarth, Rob Darke, Toussaint Douglas, Peter Tellouche, Edward Tew, Jon Holmes, Katie Sayer, Davina Bentley, Lizzy Mansfield, Rachel E. Thorn, Jennifer Walker, Cooper Mawhinny-Sweryt, Alex Buchanan, Chris BallardCreated by Bill Dare Producer: Jon Holmes Executive Producer: Richard Morris Production Co-ordinator: Caroline Barlow Production Co-ordinator: Jodie Charman

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. deal ratings and price history. So you know a great deal when you see one. That's cargurus.ca, cargurus.ca. Hello, I'm Brian Cox. I'm Robin Ince, and we're back for a new series of the Infinite Monkey Cage. We have our 201st Extravaganza, where we're gonna talk about how animals emote when around trains and tunnels or something like that. I'm not entirely sure.

We're doing one on potatoes. Of course we're doing one on potatoes. You love potatoes. I know, but- Yeah, you love chips, you love mash. I'll only enjoy it if it's got curry sauce on it. We've always got techno fossils, moths versus butterflies, and a history of life.

Listen on bbc.com or- Wherever you get your podcasts. Bbc Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. BBC Sounds music radio podcasts. People of Britain, this is your Lego Prime Minister speaking to you from the White Cliffs of Dover on this historic day. Our new small boats agreement has been signed with France. Our new small boats agreement has been signed with France. One in, one out. What I'm calling the Hokey-Cokey Accord. LAUGHTER

Knees bent to give the French whatever they want. Rah, rah, rah. I know the British public will think it's too little, too late. But they're wrong. I know for certain how overjoyed you'll be as a nation, seeing the first person no one wants here heard it onto a dinghy and sent on their way to France. And I know this because I packed Rachel Reeves' bags myself. Dead Ringers. Yeah! Beep. Beep.

Beep. You're listening to PM with Evan Davis, a testicle with a face. Laughter. I'm joined now down the line by the BBC's tolling bell in human form, Lise Doucet. I speak to you today, Evan, from what truly is hell?

Wow, where are you reporting from, Liz? The Ukraine? Gaza? Oh, neither, Evan. I've upped the ante. This time I am in actual hell. Actual hell? Wow. OK, well, also, what a good chance to catch up with some former BBC colleagues.

But why are you in hell, Lise? What's the breaking story? Oh, it's hell's temperature, Evan. It's so cold down here. I'm wearing three coats, thermal gloves and a knitted purple beanie hat with devil horns, and I'm still shivering. Well, any theories as to what's happened?

No, no, not really. One minute, hell was its usual raging inferno of damnation, and the next Benjamin Netanyahu nominated Trump for a Nobel bill peace prize. And suddenly we're looking at hell's first snow day. Anyway, I must go as I'm due to toboggan into the fifth circle of hell for an exclusive interview with Jeffrey Epstein.

He's burning some kind of list to keep warm. It's the superhero event of the year. Superman, the man of steel. Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No. It's me, losers. There's only one man of steel, Donald J. Trump, saving the American steel industry with tariffs, which will destroy the world's economy. You know, people are saying, I invented steel. I invented it. And I wrote that on Truth Social in capital letters,

so it's fact. Let me tell you about this other super guy. He's on posters, he's on buses. Well, I've looked into this guy, folks, and let me tell you, there's nothing super about him. This guy is an illegal alien. And he grew up in Smallville, which sounds super lame. If I were to be from anywhere, it would be Bigville.

It would be the bigliest ville around. And by the way, for anyone saying I did nothing about the Texas floods, they should know this. This guy, this loser, he can fly. He's got super strength and he did nothing. So in some ways, I kind of respect the guy. You know, it's, after all, having all the power in the world and not using it to make it a better place,

it's kind of my whole thing, you know? Super Trump, you'll believe a man can lie. LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE Hello, I'm Chris Mason, a courtroom artist drawing of what a real boy would look like. LAUGHTER Welcome to this newscast special on President Macron's state visit. The UK and France have agreed a deal to combat illegal crossings. I'm joined by the Home Secretary Yvette Cooper. Well actually Chris there's no need for a new Anglo-French

deal because I've already sorted the whole blooming thing. You give Yvette a problem, Yvette gives you a solution. That's right, safe bet, Yvette has single-handedly solved the small boats crisis. How so? By subcontracting the boat journeys to the company behind HS2. I'm sorry, how does that work? It's Yvette-y simple, Chris. This morning, HS2 bosses put the cost of boarding a small boat to England up to £81 billion. And all crossings have been delayed till at least 2038

because they're building a bat tunnel under the sea for nocturnal mammals from Syria. Right. Chance for Ivete, back of the net. Anything else need doing? Well do you have a plan for peace in the Middle East? I most certainly do it involves David Lammy. Oh well one out of two isn't bad Home Secretary. Just call me Yvette the best a man can get. Welcome to Woman's Hour with me, Anita Rani. Following the allegations about her book this week, I'm joined today by the controversial Saltpath author, Reina Wynn.

Now, Reina, your book's caused a bit of a stir with people claiming it's completely divorced from reality, and in fact, it seems Reina Wynn isn't even your real name. I know! CHEERING AND APPLAUSE Liz Truss! At your service, it was me all along! Hold on a minute, Liz Truss, you're Rainer Wynn.

I can't believe no-one spotted it before! But there was nothing that pointed to you're Rainer Wynn. I can't believe no one's spotted it before. But there was nothing that pointed to you being Rainer Wynn, that the main allegations involve questionable financial practices and borrowing money you've no way of paying back. Uh, duh. And then you went off to Cornwall. Legging it when everything goes wrong

could only be the trustmeister. And then you wrote a book which paints you as an innocent victim and everyone around you as being to blame for all your problems. Yes, no, I can see that one actually. But reports say Rainer Wynne's real name is Sally Walker. That's because Sally Walker is another one of my aliases. I have several hundred, so I can continue to cause absolute mayhem in public life.

And no one knows it's me. Well, who are the other aliases? Well, currently there's my Wimbledon tennis line judge alias. That's been fun. Then for a while I was doing PR for Greg Wallace. Captain Tom's daughter, that was me. And I also have an alias who works at the VVC and decides which bits of Glastonbury to broadcast.

I tell you when the doo-doo hits the fan, it's all down to busy Lizzy. Reina Wynne slash Liz Truss, thank you. Coming up later, Victoria Derbyshire tells us about her BBC News special, discussing this week's Post Office Inquiry report with Paula Venals. Who's also me? LAUGHTER APPLAUSE

Welcome to Question Time with me, Fiona Bruce, raising the blood pressure of centrist dads for two different reasons at the same time. LAUGHTER Tonight on the panel, the leader of Reform UK, a GB News presenter, a prominent supporter of President Donald Trump, the MP for Clacton and a former contestant on I'm a Celebrity. Hang on a minute, aren't they? No, no, no, let me speak.

No, no, no, let me speak. No, no, no, hang on a minute. Just a second mate, let me speak. Let me speak. One second. I want to speak. Five Nigel Farages. Yes, Fiona, it's the ultimate question time line-up. Although the correct term is Nigel's Farage's? Yes, Fiona. It's the ultimate question time line up.

Although the correct term is Nigel's Farage. OK, OK. I think even I think this might be too many right-wing people on the same panel. What on earth is going on? Well, the thing is, Fiona, sweet cheeks... Reform UK may be getting defections from the Tories by the truckload, but we keep losing our own bloody MPs. First it was Rupert Lowe and now James McMurdock's had the whip withdrawn from him. Not the first time that's happened to one of our lot, let me tell you that. So anyway, I decided to spare as any other bother and clone myself.

Okay, let's see what our audience makes of all this. We'll take our first question. Yes, you sir, the man in the third row in the tweed jacket holding a pint of, oh. No, no, no, let me wait for the microphone. What? What happened? Just the entire audience are your clones as well.

How else was I going to find 650 candidates for the next election? I'm here, I'm there, and I'm currently in the English Channel furiously pointing at dinghies. I can be everywhere, annoying everyone at once. Well, at least now you'll have time to do your constituency surgeries in Clacton. Sorry, love, where? You're back with Today. Coming up later, that weird bit we do every morning, where we tell you what's coming up on Radio 3 after 9am.

Shostakovich, Rachmaninoff and Beethoven's Fifth. No idea why. Because we're not all Philistines, Nick. Talk to the hand, Emma, because the pips ain't listening. LAUGHTER In America, Donald Trump has reacted angrily to reporters' questions in the Oval Office after the Department of Justice closed their investigation into Jeffrey Epstein, saying he had no client list. Mr President, just a few months ago your Attorney General said she had the Epstein client list

on her desk. Now apparently it never existed? Why are you still asking me about Epstein client list on her desk. Now apparently it never existed. Why are you still asking me about Epstein? I don't get it, I don't understand it. This is old news. It's 13 years old. Although I have to say, I like news that's 13 years old. But Luke's 18 if anyone asks. LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE

It was a beautiful morning in Greendale, and Pat stopped at the post office to collect the letters. BELL RINGS Good morning, Mrs Goggins, said Pat. What a lovely day! Not really, Pat, said Mrs Goggins. My day has gone to shit! LAUGHTER Steady on, Mrs Goggins. My day has gone to shit. LAUGHTER Steady on, Mrs Goggins, said Pat.

Whatever could have happened to make us say that? It's the release of that report on the human impact of the Post Office scandal, Pat, said Mrs Goggins. It's left me absolutely bloody seething. But Mrs Goggins, replied Pat, I thought the report acknowledged the devastating effect on sub-postmasters like you. Exactly, Pat, said Mrs Goggins, replied Pat, I thought the report acknowledged the devastating effect on sub-postmasters like you. Exactly Pat, said Mrs Goggins.

We've been abused in our own communities, forced out of our homes, turned to alcoholism and lost loved ones to suicide. Yet after 20 years no one's been prosecuted. Any compensation is years away. And Fujitsu is still receiving government contracts, it boils my piss, Pat. Crumbs, said Pat, how about I pop the kettle on and we'll have a nice cup of tea. How about I shove that boiling kettle up Paula Vennell's arse?

Said Mrs. Godwin's. Jess the cat meowed in sympathy. He was a helpful cat. And I'd like to shove that f***ing cat up there as well! LAUGHTER She's got a point, thought Pat. It'll be a very long time before these sub-postmasters have a lovely day ever again.

APPLAUSE MUSIC Have a lovely day ever again. APPLAUSE You're listening to Radio 2 with me, Rylan. I have got bigger chompers than anything you'll see in Jurassic World. LAUGHTER Today, I'm absolutely buzzing to be joined again by my bestie, Stacey Solomon. You OK babes? No babes You're not okay babes. No, I'm not okay babes. Why not babe? It's well hot in it babes. Yeah It really is well hot. I'm well hot babes you yeah Oh, I'm well hot babes and what I don't get is it was hot for a bit a while back

Well, then it stopped being hot and now it's hot again, babes. Oh. You are so right, babes. Hot, not hot, hot again. Wake your mind up, you're not alone, babes. I'm too right, babes. Do you know what I reckon? We just don't have the infrastructure in this country

to deal with it, do we, babes? Oh no, we don't have the infrastructure, babes. No infrastructure, babes. The lack of infrastructure, babes. Yeah, babes. The lack of infrastructure babes. Do you ever think about like what would happen if it just kept getting hotter and hotter and hotter and like it never stopped just kept getting hotter until everything was just like constantly on fire and the world burned up and all life on the entire planet was child to death? Although babes. What babes? I quite like the heat, babes. I love the heat, babes.

Me too, babes. Hang on, I'm confused, babes. Are we happy about how hot it is or not? I'm not sure, babes. I can't seem to think straight. Must be the heat, babes. Of course it is, babes. Love you, babes.

Love you, babes. Men, have you ever nodded thoughtfully in public while reading a book by Sally Rooney? Perhaps you even own a t-shirt with, this is what a feminist looks like on it. Yeah, like I've done all those things and I got the t-shirt off Redbubble. And yet are you still baffled that women have yet to notice just what a great guy you are? I'm Kelly Cates and never fear because the women's euros are here to help. Just learn a few key phrases and you too can spend the summer mansplaining the lionesses to women you want to sleep with.

And I actually prefer women's football to men's football because it's more technical. This is a phrase you can use to pretend you've been watching the women's game for years. Comparing women's game for years. Comparing women's football with men's football completely misses a point. They're like different sports. This is a phrase you can use to distance yourself from the sort of creep who uses the previous phrase. Do you want to come back to my place? I have a poster of Beth Mead I'd love to show you. It's like in my bedroom. This is a phrase you should not use under any circumstances. The women's euros. Because hinge didn't work and you still haven't shaved that top knot.

Hello and welcome to Pestent with me. What an owl would look like if it suffered a midlife crisis and started reading the Telegraph. Foreign Secretary David Lammy has been in Syria this week to meet its interim president, marking the first visit by a UK minister to the country in 14 years. We can go live to their meeting now. I would like to start by saying a few words on behalf of the UK government. David, David, it's me, your inner monologue here. You're going to need to say a few more words than that.

Right. Yes. But not too many words. You don't want to cause an international lamby. But more words than that. It's an honor to be here and shake your hand. Tread carefully David. His party is on the UK's list of prescribed terrorist organisations

as a pseudonym for Al-Qaeda. Don't lamby this up. We must look to the future. That's very statesman-like, David, for you. And establish new ties with the Syrian government. So here, you can have mine. No, David, don't give him your tie. It's not that sort of tie.

100% polyester. He doesn't want it, David. For goodness sake, even he thinks you're a danger to international relations, and he's an armed militant. Make a better point. Any kind of point. I am pointing at my tie. Oh, what an absolute lamby.

APPLAUSE Hello, I'm Brian Cox. I'm Robin Ince, and we're back for a new series of The Infinite Monkey Cage. We have our 201st extravaganza, where we're going to talk about how animals emote when around trains and tunnels or something like that I'm not entirely sure Doing one on potatoes? Of course we're doing one on potatoes you love potatoes

I know but Yeah you love chips you love mash I'll only enjoy it if it's got curry sauce on it We've always got techno fossils, moths versus butterflies and a history of light Listen on bbc.com or Wherever you get your podcasts. BBC Radio 4. And there's trouble in Ambridge. Oh, come quick, Clarilove.

Something terrible's happened. Oh, what is it, Eddie? It's President Trump, Clarilove. The whole village is up in arms. Oh, what's the big orange potato done it, Eddie? It's President Trump, Clarie Love. The whole village is up in arms. Oh, what's the big orange potato done now, Eddie? He's written all these letters, Clarie, including one to Ambridge Parish Council. He's only gone and put the blooming great tariff

on all major sound effects used every day by us everyday country folk. Oh, Eddie! The BBC have had to ration how many countryside sound effects we can use. Just come outside and look at my sheep. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááá an effect like that could bankrupt radio for. There's only one sheep here, Eddie. That's right. I had to get rid of the others because we can only afford one bar per episode.

Baa! And that was it. LAUGHTER Oh, Eddie, that's pitiful. CLOPPING Oh, no. Here comes Linda Snell, clip-clopping a log on her horse.

Only she ain't clip-clopping a log on her horse. Only she ain't clip-clopping, she's just clipping. The clops have been tariffed. Oh, have you heard the terrible news from the village? Jazza has run over the entire Ambridge cricket team with his combine harvester. What with all these sound effect cutbacks, they never heard him coming.

Oh, that's awful. Eddie, what are we going to do? These sound effect tariffs will ruin us. Not to worry, Clarie. I've got a special Grundy plan. If you can't beat them, join them. Is that what that massive vat of chlorine is for? To dip my turkeys in, exactly.

LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE This is BBC News with me, Sophie Rayworth. Following on from last week's welfare debacle, the government is now considering a cut to funding for children with special educational needs. The Prime Minister joins me from Westminster. Sakir, is your party simply leapfrogging from one cruel policy to the next? Not at all, Sophie. Ah!

Sorry, Sakir, what was that? Oh, nothing, just ignore it. On the surface though, your policy does seem... I'm sorry, Prime Minister, can I just ask, are you kicking a dog beneath the desk? Sophie, please don't be ridiculous. Dogs are adults and under six weeks, this is still very much a puppy. You're kicking a puppy? That's just about the cruelest thing you could possibly do.

Oh, don't be such a Zara Sultana about it. We're just workshopping our new kicking puppies policy so that when the backlash to all the send bill comes, we can legitimately say it's still not the worst thing we've ever done. Ow! My dogs come back to bite me on the arse! Bit like my policies. You're watching Channel 4 News with me, Christian Gurumurthy,

the swatty little brother you never had and wouldn't want if you did. The government's controversial Welfare Reform Bill has cleared its final hurdle in the Commons and now faces scrutiny in the House of Lords. I'm joined by the Work and Pensions Secretary, Liz Kendall. Good evening, Krishnan, and I think we'd all agree with that. Let's be honest, it'll get ripped to shreds in the Lords, won't it? I've got so much respect for the Lords, Krishnan. That's why I speak to Lords all the time.

I was talking to one Lord only this morning, a powerful figure, a real wizard with legislation and also generally. So if there are any weaknesses in the bill, he'll sniff them out, which is impressive because he doesn't really have a nose. Sorry, are you talking about Lord Voldemort? I'm not going to name him. I speak to all sorts of lords and ladies too, actually. In fact, I was discussing the bill with a lady only this morning

as she got out of her pink Rolls Royce driven by her chauffeur Parker. She is a lady but she's also an international spy. Okay that's Lady Penelope from Thunderbirds. And only this morning I had a chat with another Lord who's keen to lead us all wherever we may be. because he is in fact Jesus and also for reasons I don't entirely follow Michael Flatley. And that's the Lord of the Dance. Miss Kendall have you in fact spoken to any members of the House of Lords? Not as such, no. Although I have approached a few of them and they all laughed in my face. Please, Kendall, many thanks.

F-A-B. APPLAUSE OK, here we go. Greg Wallace, apology, take one. Action. Right, make it sincere and blame it on my neurodiversity, yeah? LAUGHTER Right, here we go. Hello. No-one's favourite greengrocer here.

Apparently, if there's any hope I've ever salvaged in my career, I have to make a heartfelt apology to all the mouthy birds who can't take a joke... Cut! LAUGHTER No, Greg. No? No. To all the mouthy birds who can't take a joke... Cut! LAUGHTER No, Greg. No? No. Humilous harridans? Absolutely not. Well, what should I say, then?

I don't want to come across as a creepy bloke who keeps getting his meat and two veg out. LAUGHTER And yet here we are. LAUGHTER From the top, Greg Wallace, apology, take two. I am very sorry that the BBC didn't notice my illness and didn't do nothing about it,

which is why I feel so let down and also why I chirps all them birds. Cut! Greg, this is serious. Rather than blame everyone but yourself, why don't you try to appear mortified by your own behavior and show genuine contrition?

Fine. Greg Wallace apology, take three. From the bottom of my heart, I'd like to apologise to anyone who I have offended with my thoughtless actions. I can see that my behaviour fell well short of what you would expect from- Cut! What was wrong with that one? Nothing. I'm just thinking, maybe we should try one with your clothes on. LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE

MUSIC From the people who bought you Ode to Farage and Ode to Stammer comes a new fragrance. For the person who wants to leave a distinct impression. Badenock. Vague creepiness. Badenock. Make your colleagues feel faintly unsettled without really knowing why.

Badenock. A fragrance for a man or a woman. Or a wombat. Or a dining chair. Because I am a low energy weirdo. Infused with the distinctive scent of something you can't quite put your finger on. It's creosote. With pickled onion Monster Munch Baderknock spray it on your wrists on your neck and on your worst enemies

It comes in a bucket With top notes of burnt toast to make people wonder is it breakfast time or am I having a stroke? Is it breakfast time or am I having a stroke? Ode to Badenoch, the weird low energy perfume. Like a whiff of gas but not quite enough to ring the helpline. Dead Ringers was performed by John Colshaw, Jan Ravens, Louis McLeod, Jess Robinson and Duncan Wisby. The writers were Neff Fountain and Tom Jameson, Lawrence Howard, Rob Dark, Toussaint Douglas, Peter Toulouse, Edward Chu and John Holmes. With additional material by Katie Sayre, Davina Bentley, Lizzie Mansfield, Rachel E. Thor,

Vicky Richards, Jennifer Walker, Alex Buchanan, Cooper Makhwini-Swert. It was a BBC Studios audio production for Radio 4. Daredringers was created by Bill Dare and the producer was John Holmes. Strong message here from BBC Radio 4. I'm Armando Iannucci. And I'm Helen Lewis. A comedy writer and a journalist teaming up like a pair of unkempt and unlikely superheroes.

Our mission is to decipher political language. Stress testing to destruction those used and abused buzzwords and phrases. Finding out what they really mean. And looking at whether they're meant to deceive us. Or to distract us. Or to disturb us. And our pledge is to help you spot the tricks of the verbal trait. But be warned this series does feature strong political language that some listeners may find an inverted pyramid of piffle.

Strong message here from BBC Radio 4. Listen now on BBC Sounds. Hello, I'm Brian Cox. I'm Robin Ince and we're back for a new series of The Infinite Monkey Cage. We have our 201st Extravaganza where we're going to talk about how animals emote when around trains and tunnels or something like that. I'm not entirely sure. Doing one on potatoes.

Of course we're doing one on potatoes. You love potatoes. I know but... Yeah, you love chips, you love mash. I'll only enjoy it if it's got curry sauce on it. We've also got techno fossils, moths versus butterflies and a history of light. Listen on BBC.com or... Wherever you get your podcasts.