Friday Night Comedy from BBC Radio 4 - Too Long; Didn't Read: Ep 5. The Special Relationship

Episode Date: August 29, 2025

With UK-US relations in the spotlight, Catherine Bohart wants to know just what the special relationship means in 2025. With the help of Felicity Ward, Amb. John Bolton and our regular roving correspondent Sunil Patel, Catherine's asking what makes the special relationship 'special'? Are the US and the UK really exclusive? And does anyone have the number of that nice girl, the EU?Written by Catherine Bohart, with Madeleine Brettingham, Catherine Brinkworth and Priya HallProducer: Alison Vernon Smith Executive Producers: Lyndsay Fenner & Victoria Lloyd Sound Design: David Thomas Production Co-ordinator: Katie SayerA Mighty Bunny production for BBC Radio 4

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Hello, I'm Greg Jenner, host of You're Dead to Me, the comedy podcast from the BBC that takes history seriously. Each week I'm joined by a comedian and an expert historian to learn and laugh about the past. In our all-new season, we cover unique areas of history that your school lessons may have missed, from getting ready in the Renaissance era to the Kellogg Brothers.

Listen to Your Dead to Me now, wherever you get your podcasts. BBC Sounds, Music, Radio, Podcasts. Hello, lovely Friday Night Comedy people, I'm Catherine Bowhart and I'm here to tell you that if you're in the UK, you can now listen to brand new episodes of my series, Too Long Didn't Read, and all the other Friday Night comedy shows, first on BBC Sounds, seven days earlier than anywhere else. Just go to BBC Sounds, subscribe to Friday Night Comedy,

and I can't stress this enough. Make sure that you have pushed notes. notifications turned on. That way you'll get alerted as soon as new episodes become available. Although, here's a big clue. It's always on Friday. Listen to Friday Night Comedy, first on BBC Sounds. Welcome to Too Long Didn't Read, the show that takes the news by the scruff of the neck and interrogated to oblivion like a met police officer dealing with an octogenarian at a peaceful protest.

I'm Catherine Behoort and I've spent the week reading the news so that you You don't have to, which is why my eyes have all the warmth of a fish floating upside down on Lake Windermere. Lake Windermere, of course, now an area of outstanding natural pooty. Personally, my top story of the week and perhaps the most important story of the year, nay, decade, is that Claire's accessories looks to be going into administration. Take your time, drink it in. I know. This is devastating news for teenage girls all over the globe who have long relied on Claire's to learn how to shoplift. Where the hell will we get our children pierced now?

We're going to get stuck into the big news with the help of comedians and an expert, but first, let's have a little nibble on some newsy appetizers. Robert Jenrick, Shadow Justice Minister and professional sleep paralysis demon has been criticised by the Labour government for attending an anti-asylum hotel rally in Effing, where far-right activists were also in attendance.

To be honest, that's the one place I'd expect to run into Robert Jenrick. It's like finding me in a bush, groggily, tooting a Vuvuzail. the morning after pride. No one's surprised. Ironically, Genrick claimed credit for increasing the number of hotels for asylum seekers when he was immigration minister.

He is, in effect, protesting his past self. It's the political equivalent of vomiting at the club and then slagging off that messy diva on the dance floor. Genric, girl, you are the messy diva and I get yourself some paper towels, you monkey pop. The rally was attended by Eddie Butler,

former strategist for the BNP because apparently the BNP has a strategy that isn't just shouted immigrants whilst being bald. Waterstones have announced that they've seen a 5% rise in the sale of physical books. Books. Remember those? Those things that were like computers but didn't make your uncle start posting memes

of Paddington Bear wearing a Nazi armband. Good times. CEO James Dawn says the trend is the result of book recommendations on TikTok. Nice for the Chinese Secret Service to give us something positive in return for all of our privacy and self-respect. The TikTok influences

reflected in the type of books that are increasingly popular, primarily romance and fantasy. Look, would I love it if the kids were reading Marx's theory? Yes, but I'll take them reading about sex and dragons if it means they're not writing mean comments on my Instagram posts. I am not like an old washed-out Lindsay Lohan, Ashley. Take that back. With the same age, I'm a poor Lindsay Lohan. It's different. In bread news, that's right. In bread news, the owner of Kingsmill has announced that they are buying Hovis in an effort to increase their profits. Wow. It's all about the dough at these guys. A spokesperson for the conglomerate said they plan to drive sourdough out of the market,

but I think that was just trying to get a rise. In the UK, when we talk about churches going downhill, we usually mean in attendance, or because of a scandal involving a priest doing lines off the back of a tabernacle. But in Sweden, they've taken it literally. A 672-ton church is being physically rolled about three miles to make way for the expansion of a massive underground mine. In an undertaking so stressful,

It would make Kevin McLeod horny. The church is made of wood, and it lasted to 2025. Wow, without going into details, that would not happen in Ireland. Our big story this week, though, is about power dynamics. I know. Sexy, right? Specifically, though, global power dynamics, being upended by Donald Trump, I know. Less sexy, unless you're into it.

This is a non-judgmental space. Donald Trump has been stirring up the global diplomatic order. Last week, he held a summit with Poo, in Alaska, which signaled a warming of the relationships between America and Russia, and also sounds like a romance novel. Will things get hot enough to melt the ice? Amongst the Mift was the UK, which was sidelined with all the other girls. But what the hell, Donald?

Because the UK has always supposedly had a special relationship with America. To put the Alaska Summit in American high school terms, it's like our crush is going to the prom with the captains of the football team and now we have to go with Belgium. Everyone knows that long-distance romance is hard, but the UK and the USA's special relationship has been going strong for 210 years.

Yes, despite the Suez crisis, the Iraq war and how hard it is to FaceTime with a five-hour time difference, 210 years. I think that's the uranium anniversary. But what does this week mean for the special relationship? Does it still exist or is it replaceable with Trump's favorite dictator of the month? Right this moment, King John Unz reaching

for a new leather trench coat on the manjaro. Dictator of the month, by the way, is one of the best segments in Grazia. So, what is the state of play between these two old lovers? Is the UK being too needy after Brexit? Will Donald Trump's royal visit to Windsor Castle finally get him to give you that king treatment? Can the UK persuade the US

that they're not economically shrinking? It's just cold over here. Now then, who better to discuss the ongoings of the relationship between Britain and America with me and Irish woman, then an Australian woman? Give it up for your friend in mind, the comedian, Felicity Ward, everyone. How's it going, Felicity?

I'm really good. Well, welcome. I'm thrilled to have you here. Felicity, Britain and America. The classic romantic entanglement. But what is the special relationship? Because it sounds like Daddy's mentoring the nanny. Yuck.

You know what, Catherine? It is yuck. Well spotted. And for exactly the reason you said, the phrase special relationship is how the French say, Vommi, Vommi, spew, spew. And the fact that they've used it

since Winston Churchill coined it in 1946 and haven't thought to change. to something, I don't know, less molesty is beyond us all. But here we are. So, the special relationship is between the UK, us, spelled US, and the US. Also spelt US. And it's a unique and diplomatic bond founded on a history of cooperation, shared language, and probably their love of slavery.

Oh, British people don't like that, Joe. I get very excited when British people are uncomfortable. It's also kind of amazing that this relationship stood a chance given that America was a British colony until 1776. Like that's actually very evolved of the US to stay friends with their ex. I don't know if ex is the right, owner, abuser, I don't know what the term is. I couldn't do it. Well, the Catholics are weirdly bad at forgiveness.

We're very good at remembering. Okay, so historically they've been into each other, but is it still ongoing? Are they both equally into each other now? Great question. They are still into each other, but let me tell you, there are some wandering eyes like the UK's started following the EU on Instagram again, and they're liking all their stories, and they're living comments like, oh my God, really loving your policies on trade and fishing and energy. And we should like fully collab on that electricity trading platform, you know, as friends. That's platonic. And it's not even just politicians in skin suits

changing their minds. Do you know that 31% of Britain say the US is, our closest ally, whereas just a year ago in 2024, it was 54%. It went from 54 and dropped to 31%. Do you know how much of a percentage shift that is in just one year? No, yeah, no, I'm asking. I'm terrible at max. It seems significant. I don't...

I'm a pedant not to say it's 23%. It's 20%. And that is shocking. The wild thing is the US are aware of this like low-key flirting with the EU and they're absolutely fine with it. And maybe it's like a sign of the times. more and more people now are exploring ethical non-monogamy so maybe they've moved from a special relationship

to an open relationship. I think it was Esther Perel, there was a polyamorous trouble, puddle, I don't know what the phrase is, and they were like monogamy in this economy and I feel like that's true for countries now too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we need a co-op. We need to do this together. Absolutely. Okay, so America and Britain, sure,

they've had a vibe, but what about Kear and Donald specifically? Is Keir the Trump Whisperer, as we're being sometimes told? Well, before I answer, it's very important to distinguish that we are discussing a state visit between the two countries because Trump Whisperer in Scotland is someone who specialises in treating IBS. So Keir is still trying to woo the sunbed toddler by inviting him to a state visit,

exhibiting a very un-British quality called Hope. Now, he's even given him a handwritten letter from the king And won't it be beautiful to see the king, Chuckie the third, sit down with Donnie tea and just have a little Earl Grey and scones, which of course Trump will pronounce as scones and then explain that scones in his country are called biscuits and then King Charles III will laugh

and he'll go, oh, biscuits are something that we dip in our tea. And there'll be so much merriment as the two laugh about the little cultural differences like what we call food when 31% of children in the UK live in poverty. Oh, looks like our Prime Minister. has got his priorities right again. Wait, though, what's in it for America? What's the paradigm? Do they exploit it?

Well, there's actually loads of benefits in terms of trade, defence and intelligence. I think the last time the relationship between the two countries was like really having a purple patch was during the Iraq war. I'm sure you remember. It did help that power was held both in the UK and the US by right-wing leaders,

George Bush and Tony Blair. The Chilcott report cites their relationship. their relationship, which I'm calling the cross-Atlantic, Bert Nernie, as a determining factor in the decision to invade Iraq. It's also said, and this is wild, that the two of them spoke on the phone 130

times. Have you ever been so horny before you've made decisions that impacted the people around you badly? You don't have to answer that. It seems like Stama is so obsessed with getting politically laid by Trump. Just this week, a factory which represents half the UK's bioethanol industry is being shut down

because of the trade deal he made with America. Like, yes, it was a concession that eased car and steel tariffs, but you shouldn't have to give a beege just because he kissed your neck for a long time, you know? Felicity, Britain clearly wants to make America feel like the only girl in the world, but do they do the same in return? Well, the weird thing is

lots of countries think that they have a special relationship with the US, including Australia, Ireland, Canada, Israel. But I wonder if it's just he's calling it polyamory when everyone else is just calling him a man who likes to cheat on his partner without consent. Because that's what it feels like. And I'll tell you one thing, I'm not a relationship expert,

but if the US is into diplomatic polyamory, I don't think they're going to successfully pitch a threesome between Ireland and Israel right now. Yeah, that's not a hinge that's going to be. really lean into each other. No, that is hectic. But I will tell you, once they've completely burnt the world down,

the nation state reunion show is going to be amazing. Hey, gang, give it up for a Felicity Award. Britain and America have a complex bond. But, as many of you will know, I also have a complex bond of my own with my sidebar comedian, Senil Patel. So, Seneal, what's next for the special relationship between Britain and the US?

Well, Catherine, America and Britain might be in a special relationship, but we never said anything about it being exclusive. For the record, this is why I stopped dating men. So it is good to see my fellow player, an absolute stud muffin Kirstama is keeping his options open, just like your boy, Daddy P. Daddy P, that's a nickname you've given yourself? Do you want to tell them you wrote that?

I didn't. Every time he looks uncomfortable, I've made him so. Of course, you know me, Catherine. I'm a Rolling Stone, a cowboy. Like a wild stallion, I cannot be tamed. So, Neil, you're on three dating apps and you pay for all of them. Yeah, that's just to show the ladies what a prime hunk of British beef they're missing. Anyone? No.

No. All right, suit yourselves. Anyway, like me, Keir Starrmer has realised that just because you share... a connection with, say, a woman or the President of the United States, that doesn't mean you should hang up your pulling pants and take up whittling. You have pulling pants? Well, I have pulling

wide fronts. M&S cool and fresh range, very good quality. Did you use Mommy's staff discount for those? No, she's retired. All right? So jokes on you, Catherine, because they're a hand-me-down from my father. Still no takers, really?

So, while Trump is away on business, Stama has been romancing various European leaders behind his back, his so-called European reset, and I love to see it, my friend, game-recognized game. Seneal, your game is Bukaroo. Yeah, well, Catherine, they call it the people's chess. Who's they? It's me.

Yeah. Anyway, like many an overlooked British man before him, Stama is going down an absolute storm on the continent. He's basically like me on my gap year. Dare I ask, what happened on your gap year? What didn't happen on my gap year? Okay, but what did happen on your gap year? Well, that is a secret best kept between me

and the very angry Dutchman on the bunk bed below. Sorry, Hendrik, if you're listening, but a man has needs. And those needs are? It's to eat five strupe waffles in bed at 3am. That's right, ladies. I'm a five times a night guy. And what's this got to do with Keir Starrmer? Well, Starrmer's been trying to repair the UK's relationship with the EU

because in global diplomatic terms, even when you've got a main squeeze, it's good to have a few honeies on the back burner. And his main squeezes Donald Trump? Yeah, exactly. The guy's got it all. A huge set of nukes. Lots of juicy soft power. And something I always like to see in a honey,

complete control over the global reserve currency. Hubba, hubba. How have you managed to ruin honey for me so quickly? Catherine, as I've always said, sure, you can catch flies with honey, but you can catch more honeies being fly. I don't know what it is. Say it again and say it with your chance

Catherine as I've always said You can catch flies with honey But you can catch more honeies being fly Cringe Okay And is Keir Starmer's charm offensive in Europe going down well Well it's going down better than me In that Spanish bar

That time I pretended to be Prince Harry's butler That man has got a roster He's done a saucy new Brexit deal With the President of the EU Commission Ursula von der Leyen She called it a historic moment. I cannot count the number of women who've said that to me

after a ride on my love train. Because you're old. Just unreliable. Secondly, he's co-chairing the so-called Coalition of the Willing in support of the Ukraine peace talks, although that is annoying. As on Tinder, I tell women, that's my job.

His expert handling of Trump means he's managed to embrace Zelensky without the US blowing up his phone and being all like, oh, who's that woman in your Instagram post, Senil. That's my mum. That's what she's very nosy. And he's positioned himself as the sexy unicorn in the beautiful political threesome between the US, Europe and the UK.

Sandwich between them oiled and purring. The man's a beast. A beast. We're saying a beast, are we? Yeah, it's true. I mean, outside the UK, Kirstarmer, is easily a ten, all right? But at home, he remains sadly overlooked, with only eight likes on Tinder in six years, I imagine. Again, very specific, but I'm sorry about that, Sunil. Maybe if he just learned to love himself and stop pretending that he was some sort of bad boy, he might get more action.

What? Yeah, I mean, yeah, he could do that. Or he could upgrade to Tinder passport, fly to Gdanksk, and let a Polish woman harvest his organs and return for some brief loveless human contact. Try the parogi. Have a lovely trip, Seneal.

It's Sineal, everyone. Hello, I'm Greg. Jenner, host of You're Dead to Me, the comedy podcast from the BBC that takes history seriously. Each week, I'm joined by a comedian and an expert historian to learn and laugh about the past. In our all-new season, we cover unique areas of history that your school lessons may have missed, from getting ready in the Renaissance era to the Kellogg Brothers. Listen to Your Dead to Me now, wherever you get your podcasts. As with gossiping about any of my neighbour's relationships, I want more details.

So here with more intel is our expert, John Bolton. John Bolton is an attorney, author, Republican consultant and political commentator. He has had a long career in politics and is a former ambassador to the UN. He was Trump's National Security Advisor from 2018 to 2019, which must have been a tricky time to have that job. John's done it all and seen it all, and I'm so grateful to have him here today to answer my questions. Ambassador Bolton, welcome to the show. How are you? Glad to be with you. Thanks for having me. Okay, well, in Britain, the special relationship is viewed as almost, say,

sacred, and it's certainly historically been venerated. How do Americans view the special relationship with Britain? Are they aware of it? Oh, I think so. I think people appreciate the closeness of the relations over the years, and I think there's, at least among, for many people, just as much of a fascination with British royalty in America as there is in the United Kingdom. So I think it's something that policymakers certainly have an understanding of, and it's always most comfortable when some issue comes up that the first people you reach out to to talk to about it are your British counterparts. Certainly British media has seemed for a while to be talking about Kirstarmer

as having mastered the art of managing Trump. As an American, as a man who's worked with him, do you agree? And is it even possible to manage someone like Trump? No, it's possible to deal with him in a way that doesn't leave you like Volodymyr Zelensky at the end of February this year in the Oval Office. And Starrmer, I think, has done a good job. I will say I would not necessarily have predicted it, but I thought it was a real masterstroke when Starrmer came for his first meeting with Trump and brought with him a letter from King Charles, inviting him to a state visit. in the United Kingdom. I can tell you from having been with Trump

when he came for Queen Elizabeth's invitation for the state visit, I'd never seen him happier, longer. And when we went to the white-tied dinner in Buckingham Palace and it was really quite an extraordinary event, I think if he could have gotten away with it, Trump would have just stayed there all night,

but eventually they dragged him away. So the ability to come back have a really an unprecedented second state visit, I think was quite worth it to do that. And I've advised other Europeans that have monarchies to have their king or queen invite Trump for a state visit too. It always works.

Wow, that's genius. I've never heard of the king being used like a fluffer before, but I love it. At his heart, it sounds like Trump is just like any other American tourists. It often seems from this side of the order, at least, that Trump has and his government or republicans, MAGA group, I at least, have a sort of open disdain for the European Union and European leaders. Now, like, for example, Trump's sort of commitment to going around Europe to solve,

and I would say that in quotation marks, but solve the problem of Ukraine, and going straight to Putin, it feels like sometimes he doesn't want to engage with that bloc. Do you think that's true? And does it affect the U.S. and Britain's relationship? Well, I think Starrmer certainly used the special relationship to get a better trade deal, at least in the near term, than the EU got. But I would also say that I think the EU came out of it better than I expected at the meeting here in Washington on Monday when the leaders sat around the table in the east room of the White House, Trump was very, spoke very highly of Ursula von der Leyen and the deal the EU had made. So, you know, it goes up and down with Trump. That was Monday. This is Thursday. Who knows what next week will bring. Yes, well, I've spoken with experience.

Do you think, though, there's a chance that Britain puts itself in a position where it's too dependent on America, especially post-Brexit? No, I don't think so. I mean, the opportunity for Britain is a global opportunity. And reaching out to Canada and the U.S. in the first instance is kind of the obvious choice. But I think being free of the bureaucracy in Brussels is still, to this day, a real opportunity. And for many in Britain who said, you know, but we're European, we need closer ties with the EU. I mean, I said before the referendum in 2016, look, independence is a good thing.

We tried it. It worked out for us. Interesting. Okay. Well, my Irish heart is wounded, of course, but I see where you're coming from. Stormwe's government has obviously put considerable and very public groundwork into fostering a good relationship with Trump. And then that goes for Lammy. for Mandelson, but I wonder, do you think

there's, it's a good use of their time and energy? Is there anyone else they should be focusing their efforts on to ensure the future of the special relationship? Is Vance now the target? Is Musk still relevant? Or is there someone outside of the MAGA crew that you think that they'd be better off sort of spending their energy on? Who might be maybe a more reliable entity?

Well, I think there are plenty of other non-Maga people they ought to be meeting with in Congress and elsewhere. Trump doesn't have a philosophy. He doesn't have a national security grant strategy. He doesn't even really do policy the way we conventionally understand that term. So I think he's an aberration in American politics. I don't think he has a legacy to lead behind. So in both the Democratic and Republican parties, as we get into the 28 campaign, I think there are going to be a

large number of people running for their respective presidential nominations, and many of them will come from Congress. But it's also good to get around the country and meet governors. And who, from the big states in particular, who are also prospective candidates. Do you think that if he has a legacy at all, though, that it might be that he has sort of normalized exactly what you're saying, somebody without an inclination towards traditional things like policy or national security or sort of a consistency of your word? Do you think he might have just distorted the office? No, I don't think so.

I think the effect is significant but temporary. Okay. And I think he represents a lot of people in the United States. States who are just dissatisfied with the government, dissatisfied with a lot of things. They think they've been looked down on by the elites in the East Coast and the West Coast. The evidence of this comes from 2016 when in the Democratic primary, there was a significant group of people who voted against Hillary Clinton. They voted for Bernie Sanders, who campaigned openly as a socialist.

And then when you come to the general election, that same group largely voted for Donald Trump against Hillary Clinton. They didn't like Hillary, and they thought both Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump were outsiders, and they didn't care that one was a socialist and the other was a capitalist. They just were against what they were against. And so that's had now eight years of expression. I think people are going to be looking for something different. Well, Ambassador Bolton, you, of course, have had a breakup with Trump.

Any tips for Stormer if and let's face it when his relationship with Trump falls to pieces? I don't imagine the man could carry off a fringe. So do you have any other tips for if they have a messy breakup? Well, no tips, good luck. A meaningfully, an almost British answer at the end there. Thank you very much, Ambassador Bolton, everyone. Glad to be with you. Before the show, we asked our audience

who they think would be the UK's ideal global ally and if they think the US-UK special relationship is still important. So, let's hear what they have to say. Hello, my friend, what's your name? I'm Trevor. Tell me if you could pick a country as an ally. Well, I'm going to quickly pick two.

Italy and Mexico. Good for you. Is it based totally on food, Trevor? Well, it's sort of based on food and wine and music. You know, in an environment like this, we can all kind of laugh and what have you and get along. But it takes us a bit to get going sometimes. And I quite like the extroverted nature of, say, the Mexicans. Yeah, I love that.

Also, I would love to see Britain with a level of hand gesturing that they might learn from both of those. Yeah, that would be great. Tell me anything. room that wouldn't benefit from more guacamole right absolutely yeah okay thank you so much Trevor everybody any other thoughts on this that's your name Alastair tell me what your thoughts are if you had to pick an ally where are you saying well I think someone like the Pitcairn Islands really yeah because let me know where they are so we can hide there so it all kicks off that's amazing when the bullies get too mean we can run and hide there

because no one knows who they are it's like the cupboard in schoolroom isn't it really That's gorgeous Okay and what about this special relationship What do you think of it It's a joke isn't it special to us But not to them America doesn't care about us We're irrelevant really I think What a dire indictment of geopolitical dynamic

I love that Thank you so much Great We'd love one more I'm Kit I took it a bit more literally And I said the sun I love that you think that's taking it more literally

Kit I was like who's a good you were like oh I haven't gone like weird like a country I've gone the son yeah phenomenal tell me so maybe we can send Trump up there to live it's not a bad policy because then you could have a sort of like naughty step that happens to be burningly hard they'd be great thank you kit um so felicity what is the next spin off in this franchise do you reckon um I think Britain should stop trying so hard to make it work with the US it's just it's toxic I think what Britain really needs to do is look into a special relationship between the UK and itself. Because if you can't

love yourself, how the hell you're going to love somebody else? Can I get an amen? Is this a room of quiet gay? Of course. There's a lot of RuPaul fans in here. I knew it. Whose Insta should we be lurking, Felicity? I think our exes. Like I think we should all start preemptively getting into Keir Stama's mindset so we can mentally prepare ourselves for the terrible post-breakup decisions he's going to make when Trump inevitably turns on him. Thank you very much, Felicity Ward.

This has been Too Long Didn't Read. The show that's fun but newsy, like when gossiping with your mom about her neighbours takes a turn and you find out one of them's been embezzling. Janine, you little sneak, give the brownies back their money. Thank you at home for listening. See you next week. Goodbye. Two London Green was written and hosted by Catherine Bowhart with Felicity Ward, Senor Patel and Ambassador John Bolton.

It was also written by Madeleine Brettingham, Catherine Brinkworth and Priya Hall. The producer is Alison Vernon Smith. It was a Mighty Bunny production for BBC Radio 4. Hello, I'm Helen Lewis. And I'm Amanda Nucci. We're the hosts of BBC Radio 4's Strong Message Here. And over the summer, we are bringing you a series of short episodes called Strong Message Here, Strong Recommend. Amanda, what is a strong recommend?

It's something we recommend strongly from the cultural recommendations. It could be a book. It could be a TV show. It could be a play. It could be a It could be a video game. And if I have anything to do with it, it will be a video game. It could be not necessarily something that's just out this week or just out now. For example, I will be recommending Richard II by a writer called William Shakespeare. Oh, I have big things ahead for him. I'll be talking about tactical. I'll be talking about Eldon Ring. I'll be talking about why it's worth standing just off Oxford Street at 9pm this summer.

So that's strong message here, strong recommend. It's a shorter programme with a longer title. And you can get it now on BBC Sounds. Hello, I'm Greg Jenner, host of You're Dead to Me, the comedy podcast from the BBC that takes history seriously. Each week I'm joined by a comedian and an expert historian to learn and laugh about the past. in our all new season we cover unique areas of history that your school lessons may have missed from getting ready in the renaissance era to the kellogg brothers listen to your dead to me now wherever you get your podcasts