From the Kitchen Table: The Duffys - Best of the Duffys: Girls, Call Your Mom! Guys, Just Go And Talk to Her!

Episode Date: September 5, 2024

As summer wraps up, a new season is coming with endless opportunities for new beginnings.   That's why Rachel and Sean are revisiting their conversation on all things relationships (from finding your perfect match to strengthening your relationship with your kids) – so you can make this autumn a season of new connections and tighter bonds!   Follow Sean & Rachel on X: @SeanDuffyWI & @RCamposDuffy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Mejuri. From November 25th to December 2nd, get 25% off everything on orders over $150 in Mejuri's biggest sale ever. From bold hoops to minimalist stacks, Mejuri has something for everyone. Mejuri makes handcrafted fine jewelry for every day made with responsibly sourced materials.

So you can look and feel good about gifting and wearing them. Shop your wishlist 25% off at Mijeri.com today. Hey everybody, welcome to From the Kitchen Table. I'm Sean Duffy, along with my co-host for the podcast, my partner in life, and my wife, Rachel Campos Duffy. It's great to be back at the Kitchen Table. It is great to be back with you. I missed you, but we're here, and it's Q&A, which is our favorite time of the week. We have a lot of stuff. So, a new social media trend happening on TikTok, on Instagram, and that is young women, young single women saying

they're done with beta males. They are not interested in Timothee Chalamet or Harry Styles anymore. They are all after very hunky, strong, masculine men who can protect them. This could be the Taylor Swift effect. We're going to talk about that. Could be. A stat that you will find fascinating, 45% of men between the ages of 18 and 25 have never, ever approached a woman for a date or for a conversation. So that shocks me, but then doesn't shock me as well, because I was a young man myself at one point.

And so I get this. You were not shy about approaching me. No, but I get this guess our situation was different we're talking about what's happening with men and some good advice that they can take to actually figure out how to approach women yeah we found someone online someone online who gave great advice and we're going to unpack that advice because if the men don't speak to the women they can't get together they can't they can't have babies they can't get married but we're going to start with this, which is a fascinating study about what happens to teenage girls physiologically when they speak to their mother on the phone versus when they text with their mom. So listen to this. I was shocked when I saw this study they did with a group of teenage girls.

It completely changed what I do every day. Half the girls talked to their moms on the phone, and half of them texted with their moms. Then the researchers tested their hormone levels. It's crazy what they found. If a girl heard her mom's voice, the girl's level of oxytocin, the love hormone, increased, lifting her mood. And her level of cortisol, the stress hormone, decreased.

But texting with her mom had the opposite effect. It increased cortisol and did not release oxytocin. Before I saw this, I'd pretty regularly text people who were in the same room as me. I thought it was more efficient, but now I use my thumbs less and my voice more. It's a shocking study and it makes a lot of sense, actually, when you look at the results, of sense actually when you when you when you see when you look at the results it makes sense but it's become so normal for people to be texting i think it has implications not just for the mother-daughter relationship which is so important but i think that there's a lot that everybody can gain from this so the daughter's level of stress goes down when they hear their mother's voice. And I can tell you,

Sean, those daughters have been hearing that voice since before they entered the world. I imagine that there's something, you know, that's happening in utero, and it is part of their development. And they know this is a safe person. And I think there's something so beautiful about that. So there's something about human connection, right? Yeah. And there's something so sterile and cold in regard to texting. And this is a little bit shocking to me because I guess I'm not of the younger generation where all they do is text.

They actually don't know how to talk on the phone. But that is a problem for young people. That's all they do is text. They actually don't know how to talk on the phone. But that is a problem for young people. That's all they do is text. So I think I see a balance in probably in our lives, there's texting and there's talking. And sometimes a text is more efficient. Like, I'll be there in five minutes, but my girl's coming in. Or you should really watch this movie, which is a beat to send me yesterday. She sent me a movie. But again, there's a lot of talking and I think it's interesting if you don't talk to your mom and you only text her, um, it's interesting that this study will say it has the opposite effect of when you actually, when you actually speak to her, the, the, is it the love hormone, the love hormones for love,

um, that you, that you build in the conversation with your mom is what you actually take out into the world. And maybe you're going to find your own love, but it's also whether you love your friends and the people around you. It's a really important part of humanity. And thank goodness for studies like this to go, you know what? If your kid texts you, that's okay. But make sure every day you're picking up the phone or every other day you're picking up the phone and actually talking to them, having a conversation with them.

Don't just let them rely on text messages. You know you're married to a Latino woman when she's on the phone every single day, multiple times a day with her mom, which is what I do. I'm on the phone all the time with my mom. But my girls also call me. And I have a daughter who's abroad. And so we're on kind of opposite schedules. And I just got, just before I even saw this, I got a text from her saying, you're not calling me enough.

And it's because we've been on these opposite schedules. But, you know, she wants to hear my voice. She's far from home. And she needs that reassurance. And this was so important for wants to hear my voice. She's far from home, and she needs that reassurance. And this was so important for me to hear that. And she's sending me pictures and stuff, but she wants to talk to me, and I want to talk to her. And I think that it's soothing for both of us. But I thought that was interesting what he said at the end, Sean. He said, in my own life, with even non-family members, I'm texting.

And Shani said, in my own life with even non-family members, I'm texting. And how much better the communication and the sort of relational things that happen from just talking. So I'm not a Latina woman. I'm an Irish Catholic man. And I am kind of shocked how much you talk to your mom, how much you talk to your sister, how much you talk to our kids. There's a lot of phone time. And by the way, technology has been great because Rachel can throw earbuds in and be very productive while on the phone. I can do laundry.

I can unload the dishwasher while I'm talking to my kids. It's interesting. And again, this is in regard to moms and their daughters. We don't talk about men, but I think this is a human issue. So my mom has been sick. She fell and broke her hip. She's 89 years old, uh, sharp as a tack, but I called her yesterday and she was in really good spirits and we had a really nice conversation and there's something calming and reassuring, um, that happens to children when they're able

to talk to their moms, um, and all the stresses when they're able to talk to their moms. And all the stresses of life and life is stressful, um, in all kinds of ways, whether it's your personal life or a work life. And that if, if you have a space that you can go to, maybe it's that there's always love that happens for most people. The one person in their life that will always love them is their mother. Yeah. The one that gave them birth. And to go back to that place where you said, where you know that voice from, the womb, is a very comforting place to be and to hear that voice.

Again, you might not see them, just like you couldn't see your mom when you were in the womb, but you heard her voice. And you can be a million miles away, but hearing that voice is calming. I know I feel that way. I get so much advice from my mom. And the older I've gotten, the more I've been open to accepting that advice and appreciating the wisdom in that advice. It's amazing how she gets smarter the older she gets. Yes.

We get smarter too. How does Kaylee get so smart as she got older? But I was still talking about with the texting. She got so smart as she got older. But I was just talking about with the texting. And I think as I analyze, like, why would texting actually increase anxiety? And I think this is happening on a social level between young people, as friends even. There's so much that can be misinterpreted with the text. Because you're not getting, you know, the tone of voice,

the pauses. There's all kinds of stuff that's in between the words, but you have to hear it. And there's so much that can be misinterpreted from a text message. And I think it's been the source of a lot of anxiety, a lot of bullying, a lot of weird stuff that's happened in young kids' life. But I think the worst is that they are not learning how to talk on the phone. I have friends who say their kids will only text with them, won't get on the phone with them. They're older kids that have left the house. And to me, that's really sad. That's really sad really sad yeah I think it is as well and again as as as adults with kids it's our job to go no you know again texting is wonderful it really is we're not cashing in texting but you got to pick up the phone and talk and maybe five minutes to the people you love yeah five ten minutes it's it's really important So interesting study that it's kind of intuitive sometimes

that you've got to talk to people, at least for people our age where I think it's intuitive that that's what we should do. But to see a study that goes along with it. And I like his point at the end. I might text someone across the room. Now I'm just going to stand up and walk across and talk to them. Is there a

really quick story? Be human. Can we be human again, Sean? You were doing a show. And as iPhones, I think, had just come out or whatever, and you could text. And we were sitting in our living room in Ashton, Wisconsin,

with a couple of your producers. And we were talking about what we should do for dinner. And as we were talking amongst the four of us, those two were texting about what we should do on their phones. And it came out that they were actually talking to each other, texting. And I'm like, what?

As we're sitting here having this conversation, you guys were texting in a separate conversation? This was when we were texting first camp. It was years ago. I was shocked by that. Now that would be something very normal today. today. But at that point, it seems so foreign and odd to me that, again, you can have a separate conversation outside of the real one that was happening in our living room. I also think, Sean, this is about, at its core too, that child-mother relationship is so spiritual. It's so deep. It goes back to like, you know, we talked about,

if you haven't seen this episode, you should go back and listen to it. We have an episode on surrogacy on a woman who was a surrogate baby. And you can go back and listen to that because I think it's really interesting. But that connection is really fascinating. Absolutely. That in utero connection and what it means and what happens when you don't get that is her story. So quickly, call your kids or if you're kids, call your mom. That's always great advice.

Simple advice. Call your dad. All right. We're going to take a quick break and we're going to come back and unpack Gen Z's new trend of going for masculine men. And is it Taylor Swift? We'll be right back. This episode is brought to you by Mejuri. From November 25th to December 2nd,

get 25% off everything on orders over $150 in Mejuri's biggest sale ever. From bold hoops to minimalist stacks, Mejuri has something for everyone. Mejuri makes handcrafted fine jewelry for every day made with responsibly sourced materials. So you can look and feel good about gifting and wearing them. Shop your wish list 25% off at Missouri.com today.

Welcome back to From the Kitchen Table. Let's go to our second topic, Rachel. All right. So this next topic, again, this is a new trend on social media. Go to TikTok. Go to Instagram. All the young girls are saying, we're done with Timothee Chalamet. We're done with Harry Styles.

We're done with these. One of the words they use to describe these beta guys are twerks. These artsy, brooding, skinny guys. Purse carrying, maybe. Well, yeah, and Harry Styles famously, you know, has been wearing dresses because there's this whole thing. And now they're saying, no, we don't want this. We want a strong protector type. And we're back to masculine men.

And it's kind of interesting because a lot of people think, well, is this the Taylor effect, right? She's kind of, you know, she actually wrote a song about being the girl in the band on the bleachers and, like, you know, wanting the football star. Well, now she has the football star, although he pushes big pharma. But he made a lot of money doing it, I guess. That's his justification. But he is a big, beefy, you know, mass-sealing guy. And, you know, this is a new thing. Like, is that the reason why they're doing that?

I don't know, Sean. I was on social media. I saw the story. I immediately tweeted about it myself. And I was like, hmm, breaking news, you know. Even though, you know, as you know, they've been pushing gender fluidity and gender doesn't matter and all this gender theory thing and encouraging through culture for men like Harry Styles and others to wear dresses and sort of meld or mix these gender stereotypes, men wearing dresses, and it's all super fluid i think you know as i wrote despite all the money and it has been millions and millions and maybe billions of dollars spent on trying to push this gender fluidity in the end women still like masculine men in the end it's the feminization of men

number one and number two the biology took over, the push to call masculinity toxic. The effort behind that, the amount of money we can't probably calculate because this has penetrated on social media, on television, in movies, in schools, on music videos, it's penetrated in every culture of life. on music videos and songs. It's benefited every culture of life. And to be a man and to be a hulky masculine man, society has been demonizing. And so that's why I think you've seen girls gravitate towards these femi-men. Because they kind of are susceptible to the trends.

Is that what you're saying? Yes, they are. But what's interesting, to your point, is you can't rewire biology. But what's interesting to your point is you can't rewire biology. Women and men come together, and they both have different strengths, and men are made to protect. Men are stronger. I thought you were going to go in a different direction. I was just going to say women evolutionarily are wired to be attracted to masculine men who can a protect them and their children but also

that masculinity that testosterone it's a clue about virility too like you know it's about procreation as well right well survivability yeah um no doubt reproducibility can't just reproduction i'm gonna go somewhere that i really can't believe i'm gonna go Survival. Yeah. Reproducibility. Reproduction. I'm going to go somewhere that I really can't believe I'm going to go. Wow. I'm going to talk about Gen Z for a second. And this generation, there's not many things I find endearing about them. Most of our kids are Gen Z.

I know. You don't find them endearing? My kids I find endearing. But as a class of people, because our generation has fed them garbage. But what's interesting is what is, but if you look at this trend, right? Girls are rejecting what the adults have said and gone back to the roots of going. I want a man. I want a man.

We're going back to their biology. Right. And they're going back to the library. They're going back to the library too., and they're going back to the library. The human nature. They're going back to the library too. They're like, what is this thing where you... Explain this library translation because a lot of people, I was shocked about this. So these Gen Zers

are in way larger numbers they discovered the library. They're like, there's books there. You can get books for free. You can't have your phone on and you can read these things for free and it's quiet and there's no there. You can get books for free. You can't have your phone on, and you can read these things for free, and it's quiet, and there's no distraction. And they've really kind of become endeared by the library.

So what, are they gathering at libraries? No, no, they're just actually going to the library. Right? A thing of the past. Another trend, you've got to give them credit. So your smartphone, this valentina on my smartphone if you're watching um the kids will put on horrible pictures of valentina on my phone and think it's funny yeah they find the worst i get so mad they literally find the worst picture

they can find of her and they put it on my phone and then they make it and they think it's funny because i can't change my my screen i'm like give my wallpaper i totally i can't change i'm like so let's leave it there. And then Rachel gets mad. But that was not my point. Did you used to go to the library when you were in college? Yeah, I was studying in the library. It's a good way to meet chicks. That's what I was going to say.

I asked you if they go to the library for social reasons. You mean it's not like they're actually going to get in a corner and read a book. But I went to the library in college. First of all, I'm so old, Sean, that I can remember using the card catalog. Oh, yeah. And the microfiche.

Remember the microfiche, too? Yes. And the card catalog. So I remember using the card catalog. When I was at Arizona State University, the library was so large, there was a building. But then the way you entered the library was actually underground because they created a space underground because they needed more room and but on the ground was this dome like this dome that came up so the light could come into underground and then you would go under and then when you entered you would actually be under that dome. If you're walking on the ground, the dome's above.

So we would call the library the nipple of knowledge. Very classy. Super classy. Listen, I was like, what, 21, 20? I didn't come up with the term, but we would go and hang out. And we would go to study because it was quieter than our dorm. But also, you know, you're kind of looking around and maybe you meet somebody cute. But also, in your dorm room, there was distractions.

People simply didn't have tests or didn't have homework and there's loud music and they're knocking on your door. And it was a way to get away from the distractions of our era. And we also had a lot of people there that we could meet as well in college. I don't think they're congregating like in the 80s at the library. I think they've actually found it nostalgic to go back to the library. Just like you're going back to the way we would think of going back to a diner in the 50s. Well, to the point where you can think about this like there was distraction in my dorm, and I had to get away and go to the library.

Well, if you had distractions in your dorm, think about the distractions that kids have today with their phones. And by going to the library, there is peace, there's quiet. And they've started again, Gen Z has had a rebirth to libraries, but that's, I was talking about my phone for a second. Do they take away the phone in the library? They don't, listen, you're silencing it. You put like, you can't, you can't be rocking and jamming on your phone. Not getting the pains. And I think that there are books there.

I think they're going... Because I believe this. Reading the newspaper on my phone versus the real paper, I love the paper. I love a book versus a Kindle. Oh, I totally agree with that. And I think they're seeing that too. It's like to hold it and read it, they're enjoying it. Maybe it's a human experience.

But let me get to the phone. I'm not done with Gen Z. So there's also been a trend of flip phones have been flying off the shelves. There's been a resurgence in the flip phone because when young people go out at night, they get distracted by their iPhone because it buzzes and dings.

Well, they don't want to be phone-less, right? In case there's an emergency. But they don't want to be distracted when they go out. They're trying to go, you know what? This is, I'm not actually living my nightlife or my life because this is, the phone is distracting me. So I'm just going to take a flip phone with me so I can be in touch, but it's not going to ding and buzz on me all night long.

I'm going to be engaged. Well, I'm not going to be tempted to scroll my social media. You know, I had heard that these flip phones were flying off the shelves and that there was a big demand, but I thought it was like dads like you who buy flip phones for their teenage girls because you don't want to buy them a phone. The college girls and boys are buying the flip phones. Wow. I love that trend. So again, I'm giving a little credit to Gen Z and boys are buying the flip phones. Wow. I love that trend. So again, I'm giving a little credit to Gen Z. You're going for real men. You're going back to

the library. You're going to flip phones. Pretty soon you're going to go to the diner pretty soon. Well, to our next topic, pretty soon young men are going to start approaching young women, tell them they look nice and maybe see if they want to go on a date or maybe just get their phone number. All these things. There could be salvation for America. So, Sean, the other day I said, Sean, I want you to see this video. It was an Instagram reel, if you will. It was a guy.

He has an account. I wish I could remember his account. Maybe I'll find it here for you in a minute. But he does these like little short reels that are nostalgic. And one of the ones that he did was, it was a guy at what looked like a diner, like the member and 90210, the peach pit. Yeah. It looked like the peach pit. Sitting by himself. Sitting by himself. And he looks across and in one of the other booths ahead of him, he sees an attractive girl.

There's like four girls sitting in a booth. Yeah. Hanging out. And he sees one that he likes. And he gets up, walks over to the booth and he starts talking to her and says, Hey, I think you're just so beautiful. And blah, blah, blah, with confidence. And she is like bowled over and the whole idea is what if boys and girls young men

and women actually had to meet in the traditional way that we used to have to meet like what if they didn't just swipe on people and this was actually a a knock on that whole swipe uh culture which by the way speaking of your gen z trends the apps for dating among gen z they're going down like so they're they're subscriptions the memberships among gen z going down gen z is saying i'm not satisfied meeting men this way and so this guy does this video it It goes totally viral. He has other ones where, you know, instead of like guys will pull up at a girl's house to pick her up for a date and they'll just text her, I'm here. And in this video, he actually goes to the door, gets out of the car, shuts the door, walks up, has some flowers, knocks on the door.

walks up the wrong way, has some flowers, knocks on the door. And it was funny because you remember, Sean, when Evita was dating Michael, her now husband, he came to our house in high school to pick her up

and he texted her and she said, I'm leaving, Michael's here. And you said, no, you're not. You're not leaving with Michael until Michael comes to the door. And so she says, now I acted embarrassed. I secretly loved it. And so she texted Michael and says, I can't come out.

My dad says, you have to come get me from the door. And he did. And look, and that ended up in marriage. So can I tell you what's interesting about that story? I love that story about you. Well, we told that story not long ago when this video came out that ended up in marriage. So can I tell you what's interesting about that story? I love that story about you. Well, Evita, we told that story not long ago when this video came out that we just talked about, about the boy having to go to the door to get the girl.

Instead of texting, I'm here, walk out. I have no recollection of that, that I actually did that. But you did. But good move on me for making him come and get my daughter at the door. And by the way, if he comes to my door, he's going to see me. And you know what? It's like, that's my daughter. And if you're going to take my daughter out, don't think that you slide in and slide out of her life because she's in my home and she's my daughter. And mano a mano, you know, and there's a little bit of fear.

A little hierarchy. I think there was a congressman, too, at the time. That's even more powerful, which is why. So, okay, so in the video that you talked about where the young boy stands up and walks to the booth of girls and tells her that she's stunning or beautiful and asks for her number, then the screen goes gray in the video, then the screen goes gray in the video, and it shows the kid on his phone swiping.

And this girl's picture in black and white comes up, and he just swipes right by her. Right? Because swiping by people on these apps, one, I mean, it is very productive. You get to see a lot of people very quickly. But there's so much more to personalities and looks. And if you rely on the phone and the app, you miss the meaning of, I think, life and getting to know someone and finding someone at first. There's been experiences in my life when I was young to go.

I met someone at first blush. I'm like, I don't think they're very attractive. And I got to know them, and they were far more attractive than I thought at first blush. Yeah'm like, I don't think they're very attractive. And I got to know them and they were far more attractive than I thought at first blush. Yeah. Well, that's very true. But also I think we're living in a world where people are starting to believe that they are their, their Twitter handle or their social media account. It's like, there is no substitute for the physical reality. We are not AI. We are human beings. And, and that's why even like the, the, the, the topic that we covered in the earlier, earlier in the show about the way our hormones and our whole physiological stability changes,

and we get more calm and we get these happy hormones when we are actually talking to someone in person, you know, physically talking to someone. I think we are, we are physical bodies and we have to remember that, um, that's who we are. And that's how we've always for centuries gotten to know each other. Now here's's a stat, Sean, that will, I think is shocking. 45% of men. Can I just make one last point on this? Sure. Because I think, and I come back as serving government, and I think government's a big part of our life. A smart government, a loving government that's responsive to the people because the people control it. That loves its own people, its own citizens. That's not our government, I think. It's not. Because if it was, you would

feed back to go, hey, everybody, let's talk about the dangers of premarital sex. Let's talk about the dangers of promiscuous sex. Let's talk about, you know, the dangers of spending too much time on our phone. Let's talk about the dangers of thinking your life is your Twitter or your Instagram handle. Let's talk about what's really healthy, relationships and going out and seeing people. You want our government to do this? You know what? Yes, let me tell you why.

Because what your government is now doing is saying you could be fluid. You might have been born with male parts, but you may be actually a female. Global warming is real. We need to go back to the Stone Ages to save the planet. That's the crap they're telling them. So if you're going to talk about issues, talk about issues that make people's lives better and happier. Because you've done studies to go, you know what? I'm a free enterprise guy, but some of free enterprise is bringing some really dangerous topics into our lives and our society. And we should be aware of

it. Well, you know, there was a study that came out not long ago. It was actually really shocking. aware of it? Well, you know, there was a study that came out not long ago. It was actually really shocking. The Surgeon General got involved. The study said it showed loneliness levels. And this was across generations. It was young people all the way to senior citizens. And the government did decide they wanted to do something about it. They did talk about social media, but then they came up with government programs. So they came up with bike paths and YMCA cooking classes and all this stuff. And I'm like, no, what makes people happy are families.

If you're really old and you're lonely, let's talk about why families are the right support network for you instead of your family trucking you away to a nursing home where you're all alone or abandoning you. Let's talk about, you know, why kids need dinners around the table, you know, multiple

times a week to connect with their families and their parents and be able to learn these social skills that are being lost because of social media. So, you know, you look at all that and you go, well, no wonder 45% of men, 18 to 25, have never, ever approached a woman in the way that that young man did in that video. Okay. So give me that stat again. 45% of men, 18 to 25, have never approached a woman, just initiated a conversation or asked for a date. Which is interesting because men find themselves in all different kind of situations. Correct.

And sometimes they'll find themselves even at a bar where they've consumed alcohol, where they do get a little more courage than normal. Yeah. It's shocking that even in that moment with liquid courage, they haven't approached a girl. Yeah. Not probably in their best form. But we've been to that rodeo as a girl or a guy, you know, having conversations at a bar. This is shocking.

And one, I think there's two things at play. One, boys have never had any experience and training in doing it, number one. But number two... Well, you know what? To go back to, before we move on, this kind of wisdom, how to talk to a girl, it's not getting passed on from father to son, from big brothers to little brothers. Isn't that how that kind of knowledge was passed on those kind of like,

how do you meet a girl? My dad about how do I meet a girl. Well, but maybe you saw your dad opening the door for your mom. Yeah. Or maybe you saw your dad, you know, the way he treated her. I mean, who knows? So there is, I think there's some generational knowledge that's passed between, you know, the senior might talk, or the freshman or the freshman might see the senior ask the cheerleader out to the dance, right? That can happen. You see kind of how it's done.

Yeah, you say your big brother asked some girl out to the prom. Like, there's usually some thing around that, right? We saw it in movies. That's true. We saw it in television shows. That's true. And the stress of the courting or the asking out of the meeting and the tension around that john hughes movies yes exactly go back and watch them if you haven't

seen them when you're like 20 years old some kind of wonderful and yeah also um so so the second one though is so in this environment it is really dangerous for boys to approach girls. No, listen, it's fraught. No question about it. If you approach a girl at work or even at school, at a diner, you don't know what you're going to get from her. She could be offended. She could yell at you. She could post on social media what a creep you are.

Your life could get ruined if you approach a girl because you don't know what you're going to get. And so, one, it's hard enough to be a young man and approach a girl, but if you think your life can be ruined in the process of it as well, there's no way in hell you're walking up to her. You can't do it. Yeah, we've made it more difficult. There's no question about that.

So, in the article where we saw the study, there were some ideas, some tips. So there is a guy on Twitter. I don't know how I came across this Twitter handle. His Twitter handle is BeHerLeader. Some of his advice is pretty simple. And as soon as I started reading, was like, well, yeah, that would work. And then I read it to you and you're like,

great advice, great advice, great advice. And then as you went down the list, I'm like, I'm not so sure. Maybe we'll get him on sometime. That could be weird. Well, maybe we'll bring him on sometime and we can talk about it. But let's unpack some of the things.

Because here's the deal, Sean. We talk a lot about, you know, young people aren't getting married at the rates they did before. And there's a lot of, like, girls, why don't you want to get married? Why are you all girl bossing? But the other part is, why aren't men becoming more marriageable? Or even, let's back up even further, why aren't men even approaching women? And if the men are too afraid or don't know how to approach women to even initiate a conversation and potentially a date, well, no wonder these people never get together, right? No, no wonder the sexes are never getting

together. And so I thought this would be a really great, I'm going to, I'm going to run these by you again, and you're going to tell me what you think. So the first one is to do it with confidence that you have to, if you're going to approach a woman, you cannot look nervous. You have to look like, you know, do you say that, that saying act like you've been there, right? Like, um, act like you're confident. And we, and he talks a little bit later about how to get the confidence, but the initial thing is you cannot act scared or nervous because that's a turn off to girls. And I have to say, kind of true. Yeah. So you got to lie to yourself because you're nervous as all get out.

Psych yourself out. You're so nervous. You're like sweating bullets. You actually think you have to do it, but you don't really want to do it, but you want to do it. And so you just got to go, you know what? I am going to project confidence though. That is not at all the way I feel. And, and by the way, it works, right? I mean, you want, you, you got to project confidence as you walk up to someone you may, you don't know and ask them to go up. And he says, basically, you just have to, you just have to man up, get over your fear of rejection and you just got to do it. So then the question becomes, how do I build that confidence? Like you may not, you may be a guy that has some social anxiety that maybe hasn't talked to a lot

of girls. And so how do you get that confidence? And here's where I thought his advice was really good. He said, the first step is because you got to learn how to do small talk, right? Like, obviously, if you're going to go ask the girl and you get that confidence, then what? What are you going to talk about? So he says you've got to be able to practice with guy friends. Small talk. So when you talk, you know,

because he says guys are kind of nicer and more forgiving if you kind of jumble it at first. And so he says, try and talk to your guy friends first. Good advice, Sean? Yeah, small talk is a skill, right? And it's not that it's fake. It's like, but how do you keep a conversation going?

And if you have guy friends, that's a great way to practice how to do it, no doubt. So then he said, the next step, after you've practiced small talk with your friends, now you've got to try it with girls. But maybe girls, not the girl that you really want to ask. He said just when you go to the cash register at the grocery store, and it's a lady, whatever her age is, practice that idea of looking her in the eye and asking her, how's your day been? And then she's probably going to be like, wow, he's asked me.

And she might actually have something to say. But there's another study about how many more words a day women use than men. It's like shocking, but not surprising, not surprising. And so she might start to talk to you and tell you how her day is. And then you've got to practice as a guy, the art of listening and responding appropriately. And so you're practicing with the women that you're running into in your life before you actually,

you know, execute this plan on the girl of your dreams. So I think that is wonderful advice. So if you're going to go through the checkout counter saying, hey, how are you? Smile. That's another thing. Smiling is inviting. You having a good day?

It's been a tough day here, huh? God, it's been raining all day out because it's been raining here. It's been raining. What a beautiful day. You talk about the weather. Talk about the day. How are they doing? Have you been busy?

All kinds of things. And by the way, you get better is how are they doing have you been busy all kinds of things and by the way you get better at it the more you try it and by the way if you kind of stumble at it that's okay because you're going to pay the bill and get out and probably not see the checkout lady again but here's what else is important he says ask her and then listen and then ask a question based on what she said that's right that's the key to a conversation. We'll be back with much more after this. Breaking news happens anywhere, anytime. Police have warned the protesters repeatedly, get back. CBC News brings the story to you as it happens.

Hundreds of wildfires are burning. Be the first to know what's going on and what that means for you and for Canadians. This situation has changed very quickly. Helping make sense of the world when it matters most. Stay in the know. CBC News. But also, you've talked about the, talk to the lunch lady, right, at school. Yeah.

Talk to the secretary at school. Talk to the lunch lady, right, at school. Talk to the secretary at school. Obviously, you don't want to, if you're 18 years old and she's 45, it's not threatening, but talk to women. Talk to ladies. Be friendly. Be nice. And you'll figure out how to do it. But another thing that's easy is because if you walk up and approach a girl um there there is you pull the curtain back

it's like i think you're pretty i'd like to go out with you that can be uncomfortable and and and it's and it's um it could also be very sexy if it's done right but if you're not confident might not be the best way to go right what even but even but you it doesn't matter who comes up you you could have you're thinking about handsome guy coming up to you but what happens if it's like you know screech from saved by the bell you might be like he's he's really nice and that was really endearing but i'm sorry i don't want to go out with him and that could be um a really raw moment of rejection for him so my point is point is, you think that's still great? No, that's hard.

No, I just think that's hard. But I think what's important is there's girls all around you in your life. When school, and that you may not even like, you don't want to date, but learn how to talk to them. Learn to be friendly with a girl. Learn how to practice that small talk. I think that's important. Now, the other thing he says, which I think is really true,

it's like you can sit and complain that the girls are mean or you're afraid to talk to them. How do you get that confidence? Work out. Working out, being physically fit, feeling good in your own body and knowing you're strong, as strong as you can be, is attractive to women and gives you personal confidence. So I thought that was also really great advice. Work out. Women are attracted to it. And then he said, the worst thing you can do if you like a girl is think that you can win them over by going into the friend zone.

Now, this is the one I wanted to talk to you about because he says you can never get a girl if you're in the friend zone. That women and men, this conquered, conquering relationship, that it can't, women, he says, before you're married, this is what he said, before you're married, men and women can't be friends if you're attracted to them. And so don't go into the friend zone. Just try to, you know, go for the girlfriend zone. I don't. I'm going to say it's true. And by the way, Sean, yeah, we were friends, but you did not try to go. I friend zoned you. That's what I was going to say.

No, you didn't. Sean, it was flirting for day one. It was very clear what was going on. And I don't care what you say. We're going to be friends, I know, but I was flirting with you as well. No, no, no. You were not trying to be my friend. I knew exactly what your intentions were

and you were flirting from the second I met you. So I don't even want to hear it. You're making me blush. But it's true. I actually think that's true. Let's be clear. The friend zone, if you mean by that, like we're just going to be friends. Yeah, I think you're probably right.

A lot of guys try and do that. They think they can slide in. Be friends, but also show signals that you want more than that. So being friends is being nice, being all those things. Yeah, you don't want to be a jerk, but I'm saying, and you want to be interesting, and you want to be fun and funny and all that kind of stuff. But if you're not flirting and showing you're interested, it's not a track and field. I don't want to hear about, if I want to date you, I don't want to hear about you and your boy problems with someone else.

Like, hell no, I'm not going for this. Yeah, exactly. I wouldn't stand for that if I was you. And by the way, I wouldn't be your friend. I'll try, let's be friends, and I'm showing I want more. And if it doesn't work, I'm like, peace out, baby. I'm gone. See you later. Um, okay. So, so I think all of that is very good advice, solid, solid advice on how to, and again, and this goes for women and men, by the way, if you want a date, make yourself as attractive intellectually, physically, spiritually,

as you can be. So it's not just, oh, there's no men out there. Oh, there's no women out there. It's like, what are you doing to attract the people that you want towards you? And it takes work sometimes. And I think for men, working out is really important. I think for women, especially working out is, uh, it, it releases endorphins. It's not just the physical part of it. There is, there are, I think a lot of social benefits to working out and feeling good and projecting that kind of happiness in around you then people will be attracted so we're talking we're also talking about what sorts we're talking about men right and what should what should young men do and again i'm saying that because i really like the idea of men approaching women i like it i'm not i'm not i'm not saying i don't like it i like okay. But what I'm going to tell you is on the flip side of that,

we've both been in situations when we're younger to notice who is open to meeting people. And you can tell that by looking at a crowd of people in a bar. Not anymore, Sean, because everyone's in their phones. I'm sorry. Okay, well, I guess I haven't been to a bar. Anyway, I'm going back. And this is a different, again, my point is still relevant. Work with me here.

So there's those who are open to meeting and they're fun. And, you know, you can see that I imagine that Rachel at a bar at 22, people would feel very comfortable coming to talk to her because she would project, I'm nice right now. I may not go out with you. You're not going to take me home. But it would be easy to come and talk to you at a bar because you would exude that.

Okay? Friendliness. Friendliness. Friendliness. And I think there's other girls at a bar that are like really standoffish. And you can see it's like if some guy goes and approaches that girl, hell that's going nowhere right so how you again this is this is you're saying be choosy about who you are approaching if i'm saying but maybe that girl that looks like she's standoffish is nervous and actually if you showed confidence and and approached her maybe she might be

saying this is a responsibility for you know girls that might want a guy to approach them to be friendly to to project i might be open to someone coming to talk to me and i'm not gonna beat them down and whip them and post on social media that they approached me and started started to talk to me that's that's important again this is all in a very i mean a very respectful context that we're having this conversation, someone coming up to speak to someone else, someone else being open to having that conversation. And I think that she can also put out a vibe that it's like, not that I want to go home with this person, but I'm open to this person actually coming and chatting with me. Yeah. I'm open to meeting new people.

I think what's interesting about the fact that we're having this conversation about this 45%. I respect what you're saying about that, that it can be fraught right now with, you know, Me Too and everything else. But I do think that really the main underlying factor is that people are becoming more and more non-verbal and becoming more accustomed to communicating through their devices, and that it is doing a number on their ability, which, I mean, it's a muscle, right? You know, communicating, small talk, learning how to listen, learning how to, you know, have a back-and-forth conversation. I mean, I can remember.

Quanting is not small talk, by the way. But I'll give you a good example. Before, you know, before you were in Congress, I got really nervous. First of all, I'm not a small talk kind of person. One of the things you know about me, Sean, is I hate small talk. I like deep conversations that are like, you know, I go right to the meat of it. But if you're, if you're a politician's wife, you have to learn how to do a lot of small talk and ask people about themselves and learn to, you know, keep a conversation going because you have to meet different people and constituents and donors. And so I remember that came really easy for you. You're very good at small talk. It was not easy

for me. I would get a little bit, not like crippling anxiety, but anxiety. And also, it wasn't what I love to do. Are you saying that I'm shallow and you're deep? No, I'm saying you're a great conversationalist. And that came very easy for you. I got anxiety, but you were in Congress 10 years. You were good at it. I got good at it. And so my point is, it's a muscle.

It's something that you have to practice doing. And that's why that advice about, you know, do small talk and be the leader of the conversation with your friends. I'm sure a lot of young men get together with their friends and play video games and don't talk to each other. That's right. And, you know, even probably sit in a room and text each other instead of talking. And so if you're a guy who is proactive and wants to meet a woman, be the guy in your friend group who starts conversations, initiates conversations, learns how to ask your friends questions, learns how to be interesting and keep the conversation

interesting, and then start moving on to all these other women in your life who aren't necessarily the woman of your dreams so you can get that practice. The point is it takes practice. It takes practice. And by the way, small talk isn't fake. You have to be authentic in everything you do. Absolutely.

Being able to have a conversation. Yeah, you're not going to go, what's the weather? But sometimes it's raining out. I mean, that's how you might start the conversation. And authentically, you're like, it's raining out i mean you might start that's how you might start the conversation and authentically you're like it's raining cats and dogs or it's like there's a whole bunch of things authentically you can have a conversation with but if you're reading off a note card you know and it's very sterile you don't want that you want to be authentic and be able to have a conversation and hold a conversation because it's those

small talk conversations that lead into the conversations that you like, which are really deep. And your point, Sean, on small talk, and that's something people like to be asked questions about themselves. And so actually, what's interesting is it's not, you don't have to carry it as much as you think you do. You just have to learn to ask the right questions of people and they'll go off. They'll start, they'll start talking. And then you just, you know, actively listen so you can continue the conversation with another question or you may follow up with something about yourself. And then that leads to another question, but don't feel like it's all on you. What you're doing is making the, you're the icebreaker.

That's hard. You're the one that's coming up and asking, but then you take the pressure off by asking them about themselves. And just as a, as a, uh, having this conversation as, as parents to recognize that this is the case with a lot of our young men, it's our job as parents to say, okay, again, they're not living in the same world that we grew up in. They're not living in the same world in which we met. And so how do I help them navigate this world to have the skill set to go out and find love, hopefully get married and have a family because that is going to give them more happiness in their life. And again, seeing that.

Yes, this is a great point. This is not just for young men. If you're a parent or even a grandparent, your kid, your grandkid might have social anxiety about talking to people because they've been raised on devices and you can offer this kind of advice. That is, I almost told a story that I might have violated the trust of one of my children, so I'm not going to tell that story. I won my children, so I'm not going to tell that story. I won't do that.

I'm not going to tell a story, but I dealt with this recently with one of my children. And I'm like, I'll be the facilitator of the conversation, right, with a young person. That's right. And I'll facilitate it, and I'm going to make it way easier because I can, listen, I'll come in and I'll razzle-dazzle this thing and make it easy for this connection to happen, and I can pick up when the conversation can drop, I'll jump in, which my dad would have never done that for me. But I think that's a little bit like, I mean, I would say, is that helicopter parenting there? It's trying to build some confidence.

Yeah. I was trying to build confidence to go, you can do this. You can hold it. You mean these little training wheels? Yes. This child freaked out, was like losing their mind. Anyway, it didn't work out. It didn't have to do that.

So I have some more work to do as a parent to make sure this thing launches. But the other thing is, even if you're shy, even if you don't think you can do it, you can still go to the gym and work on yourself and work on your personality and read books and become more interesting and interested in history and things. You're sharing weights together, and all of a sudden you're striking up a conversation. How cool is that? Yeah. Wow.

All right. I love these topics today. By the way, we should bring that guy back because he goes on to say, now, what do you do on the dates? Yes. So we can kind of unpack that and in the relationship. Rach and I had some agreements and some disagreements on the advice that was given. And interestingly, I was interested in how we were disagreeing a little bit. So we should bring it back and have all the advice come in and continue this conversation. But again, recognizing where

our young people are at and some of the good things they're doing, like looking for, you know, stronger men going to the library, you know, using not using their, not dating online as much. Hopefully calling their moms and sparking love in their little souls. All really great stuff and all things we can work to promote in our everyday lives.

I love it. So listen, everyone, thanks for doing this Q&A and thanks for sending in such great topics to us. Again, it's always better to send topics to Rachel on social media, than mine. Yeah, you can DM me.

She's more active. DM her. Send us some topics. We appreciate your feedback. And thank you for joining us at the Kitchen Table. If you like our podcast, you can rate, review, subscribe. Wherever you get your podcasts, you can always find us at foxnewspodcast.com. Please subscribe.

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