From the Kitchen Table: The Duffys - Counter-Culture Kanye Causes Stir At Fashion Show

Episode Date: October 7, 2022

On this episode, Rachel and Sean sit down with their daughter Evita Duffy to discuss the controversy that Kanye has caused at his Paris fashion show.  Later, Evita explains why Kanye's "White Lives Matter" t-shirt has cultural and artistic significance, why she believes the left feels threatened by Kanye, and touches upon the double standards that exist for Democrats and Republicans in the fashion world. Follow Sean and Rachel on Twitter: @SeanDuffyWI & @RCamposDuffy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Hey, everyone. Welcome to From the Kitchen Table. I'm Sean Duffy along with the co-host for my podcast, my wife and my life, Rachel Campos Duffy. It's so great to be back at our kitchen table. We have an interesting topic today because sometimes politics, culture, fashion, art all come together. that this week when Kanye West shocked fans when he wore a shirt to his own Yeezy season nine event at the parish fashion week. And he wore a shirt that said white lives matter and caused an enormous stir that ticked off one of the editors at Vogue, ticked off his wife, got the whole world, the

fashion world and the political world talking. Someone who wrote about this event, interestingly, is our own daughter, Evita Duffy, who is a writer at The Federalist. Welcome, Evita. Thanks for having me. Let's break this down, and you give us the, maybe just set the table a little bit of what happened here. Yeah, so the back of the shirts say White Lives Matter. The fronts have a picture of Pope John Paul II and then words in Spanish that- No, they're in Latin, right? No, they're in Spanish. They are in Spanish.

That say, we will follow your example. You can actually, mom can read that with a better accent than I can. Seguiremos tu ejemplo. Yes, we'll follow your example, which by the way,'re going to talk about the Pope John Paul II part of it, which is fascinating to me as well. But let's start with White Lives Matter. Yeah. So, I mean, the term White Lives Matter was a reaction to BLM.

I think everybody's kind of heard that phrase before floating around the internet. Black Lives Matter. He's kind of heard that phrase before floating around the internet. Black Lives Matter. I mean, it's the destructive Marxist organization that torched American cities in 2020. And is now, we know, an extremely corrupt organization. That's a scam. It is a scam. It's enriched all of its Marxist leaders, sort of like what happens in Marxist countries.

And so that's why Kanye said he wore the shirt. He said, you know, one, BLM is a scam. And he said, we all know that, which I thought was funny because it's like in the black community, everyone knows that Patrice, or what's her last name, Evita? Patrice Culbers, I think is her last name. She's like the head of BLM. She bought like multiple multi-million dollar mansions. I remember. like, hey, we didn't get any funds to help our organization. Where's all the money that's going to the mothers of people who have died at the hands, supposedly, of all these evil white cops? No money's going anywhere except into the pockets of these BLM activists, the leaders.

And the second thing that he said was not just that BLM is a scam, but he also said, my response to why I made the tea about white lives matter, he said, because they do. White lives do matter. That was his response, and people absolutely lost their minds over this. Sean, what do you think?

I think this is a fascinating conversation, because with the Black Lives Matter movement, and I think you're right. The money that's been raised and, you know, tens and hundreds of millions of dollars that have been raised hasn't really gone to help the Black community. It's gone to help the leaders of the movement, but not the people themselves. And it makes me think about this idea that

when there is a wrong in society, the way you right a wrong is not to try to inflict the wrong that you endured on the people that you think have wronged you, right? It's to say, listen, this is not appropriate. We don't treat people this way. And the reason I bring that up is, I mean, I don't think the response to slavery was, you know, I'm an African-American. We were enslaved. So now the response to that is, we should enslave white people. I think the answer is, slavery is wrong. This has no place in a civilized society. We need to eradicate it. And so this idea that I think has come out of Black Lives Matter is the idea that only Black lives matter. White lives don't matter. And if you came out and said that

white lives matter, that all lives matter, you were immediately called a racist, that you undermine Black lives. All of these accusations were made against people who would say, I think it's a good point. I think we should truly note as a society that all lives matter. Everyone should be treated equally and fairly under the law and in society. And that we should all be able to rise by the talents that we bring to the workforce and society, not by the color of our skin. And I think that's a noble statement, though that's not been the philosophy. But that's how far we've come, that to say white lives matters is somehow racist or insensitive.

And by the way, can we just start that the entire BLM movement was started on a lie, on a lie that the biggest thing facing black people today is not, is, is, is, you know, getting, you know, pulled over and, and killed by white police officers. And not culture in the welfare state. Right. This economy is killing the black community right now. Inflation is in the welfare state. Right. This economy is killing the black community right now. Inflation is killing the black community right now. Crime and these woke DAs, that's, I mean, more people are being killed by that, by letting out the

criminals into the neighborhoods that so many brown and black people live in. That's causing much more pain and frankly, even death in the Black community. So the entire thing is built on a premise. And what happened is BLM was able to basically cash in on the guilt of white people and on the cravenness and cynicism of corporate America, who just wanted to sort of give some sort of, I guess, you know, virtue signal and they virtue signal through dollars. They gave dollars to this organization,

black lives matters and black lives matters turned around and abused that money and used it for their own enrichment. I don't, I don't want to start a family fight here, but can I throw something by you guys? I, cause I know we I know we have friends all over the political spectrum, the racial spectrum, the sexual gender spectrum. And I've had a lot of my good African-American friends who said, and again, who are not playing racial politics will say, I've been pulled over for the offense of driving while Black. I mean, I've heard that from people who aren't trying.

Right. So I mean, so to say, hey, there might have been some unequal treatment in how people were pulled over and maybe how, you know, law enforcement looked at, you know, different drivers and the color of their skin. There can be a claim there that I think is fair. How this has been developed into, you know, cops are all out to kill and shoot, you know, African-Americans, and that we need this organization to enrich its founders. But just data after data, Sean, I mean, you can look at the data. So that's not true. I know. That proves it's not true. But I wanted to make that as a caveat in this conversation ago. This is all not- I think we all have biases, and I think that's a fair statement. But this was sort of in any case, the situation that happened with with George Floyd was difficult to watch. It was horrific. I think it was abusive. I don't think I think that George.

But here's what happened. They enriched themselves off of his death. Yeah. And you know that they don't care about black lives because their response was to torch and loot black and brown neighborhoods. Yeah. Destroy them. And also white white businesses and white neighborhoods. And what. But the other thing is, I mean, we talk about, OK, so sure, there might have there might be bias. And in some cops being put, there's bias everywhere. There's bias all over the place. And there's there's bias against white people. So let's bring it back to Kanye because what Kanye's done is fascinating. Yeah. So what, well, I mean, Kanye wore a White Lives Matter shirt.

The reaction was just, you know, obscene from the other side, you know, calling it indefensible, pure violence. He's had some support too, though. From who? I was just reading an article in the Daily Mail, an African-American. I should pull it up what his name was. But I mean, he was like, yeah, I mean, everyone basically was saying everyone in the black community knows that Black Lives Matter was a rip off. In fact, I think in the article, the guy said that. Oh, yeah. He was I think he was a professor. Is that right yeah yeah he said you know that uh that bernie madoff gave gave better

return on the investment to his investors than black people got on black lives matter i mean there have been some good responses but i think the overwhelming response has been very negative now it's drawn in other people so you see all these celebrity players that are you know weighing in on it one of them is gg hadid who's a very famous sort of supermodel right now a huge influencer she's gotten in on the game and and Kanye's just fearless I mean he's he's swiping back at them he's not backing down he refuses to apologize um who's what's the name of the Vogue the Vogue editor who was the first one to sort of take her name is Gabriella Karifaifa Johnson. I think I'm not, I don't know if I'm pronouncing her, her maiden name correctly, but she was actually present at the event.

And then afterwards went on an Instagram story tirade. She said it was like, she felt it was violent. Yeah. She said it, she said it was violent. And I think what really upset Kanye was she said that there's no art here. That really, that up. So Kanye responded in kind and basically said, you're not a, And I think what really upset Kanye was she said that there's no art here. So Kanye responded in kind and basically said, you're not good at your job. She's a Vogue fashion editor. She said, you're not fashionable.

And he made fun of her boots, which, I mean, the woman is kind of living in 2013 if you look at her outfit. I mean, it's bad. And Kanye really fancies himself as somebody who does no fashion, who sets all all these strings who sells billions of dollars worth of goods based on what's what's interesting to me was the the first like instagram tirade from this vogue editor um was ignored and the media literally said that kanye was going on a a bullying campaign that's what they said about kanye even though kan Kanye was responding to her saying that his fashion show was not art. I mean, that's a pretty serious, you know,

But what's the definition of art? For me, art causes people to think. I think it's being provocative. It's causing people to think outside the box, reconsider what we think is the right thing or the wrong thing. To me, Kanye got the assignment right. I mean, that we're sitting here having a podcast that, you know, dozens and dozens and dozens

of articles have been written about him wearing that shirt. And that basically we've got this acknowledgement, tacit though it is, within the Black community saying, yeah, we all kind of know that it was yeah blm but i i love the idea that you know kanye is it's almost the emperor with no clothes that kanye will come up and say what everybody everybody knows about black lives matter and also that we all in in in our society today think most good people go, you know what? All lives matter. And that he's calling this movement out and that they're losing their minds over it shows how fragile their ideas are around Black Lives Matter.

They can't allow anyone, let alone Kanye West, come out and go, this is ridiculous. It was a scam. And by the way, I'm a Christian man. I think that all lives matter. They go, we cannot have that. You cannot say that because other people might, you know, understand that Black Lives Matter is also a scam as well. And I do believe that all lives matter. You can't let people, you know, start to think for themselves and say what they want. And more people are emboldened in culture and society

to go, if Kanye can say the truth, maybe I can too. That's why it's too dangerous and why they have to try to crush him in the crimson. Well, that's what's so interesting, Sean, is that they have tried to crush him. From the moment he went into the Oval Office and met with Donald Trump, he put on the Make America Great hat on Saturday Night Live.

They have tried to crush this guy. They have tried to get rid of him. But the point is, Kanye West is fearless, one. And two, I think his music and his fashion and his business sense is undeniable. And as much as the sort of gatekeepers of culture have tried to destroy him, the people keep propping him up. That's a really good point. Something that, you know,

kind of speaks to how he's made people start to talk and that this is a really a counter-cultural fashion moment that he had was the granddaughter of Bob Marley, who I hadn't heard of before this. She's 23 years old, was getting, you know, mercilessly attacked on Twitter with Kanye. And they were saying, you know, you're a disgrace to your grandfather's memory. You're a disgrace to your mother. You're saying this to her on social media. Yeah. Well, I guess, and her mother's, I guess, a left-wing activist. And she said, the past 24 hours have allowed me to realize that most of you are stuck in a hive mind mentality.

And she said that, you know, what, what you're doing, what we're, what we're trying to invite people to do is think outside the box. And that's exactly what Connie did. And that's, and through art, which I think is important. He's not just tweeting about white lives matter. He is, he did it in a fashion show, which makes it mine. That's actually part of the point of my article. I think that makes it the most threatening to the left because it was in the form of art. And people are drawn to that. And that is more threatening than any article or any tweet or any statement that a politician can make because it has a lot of power. I packed that a little bit more, Avita.

I packed that a little bit more because I want to hear more about what your take is from from your article yeah well and so let's let's so i think we can talk a little bit about what what was you know on his shirt and i want to talk about pope john paul ii a little bit because do that pope john so let's first talk about pope francis our current pope who you know cares more about the environment than he does abortion. He's currently waging a full-on war against the Latin right and in the Catholic church, trying to expel it. And you look at- Banning it, really banning the saying of the Latin mass. Yes. And if you look at Pope John Paul II, he was conservative. He was very tolerant of the Latin right. He was hated by leftists and liberals in the church.

Anti-communist. very tolerant of the Latin, of the Latin right. He was hated by leftists and liberals in the church. Very anti-communist. That's right. And Pope Francis is a socialist. So for Kanye to put Pope Francis on the cover and white lives matter, he could not have been more counter-cultural in that, in that moment. And, and I, and I think that this also kind of feeds into why, if you look at, you know, you hear all these headlines that church churches are in decline, that people aren't going to religious services anymore. But that's actually not true when you look at traditional churches. The traditional Orthodox church and traditional Latin Rite mass is

actually seeing an increase in young people attending services. Yeah, young people are wanting something different, something that's rooted in centuries old traditions, instead of this sort of expendable, exposable music. young people want to do the opposite of what everyone's telling them to do. Yeah, it's totally countercultural. Right. And everyone's telling them that you shouldn't go to church, that that's actually a racist institution, that, you know, White Lives Matter is actually, you know, subverting the BLM movement, which we all know is a scam, but you're not allowed to say it. I mean, these are unsayable things that Kanye is saying via art. And I think it's so indicative of why people are upset. Well, why what the movement to subvert the regime right now? And I don't know if that means that maybe that's kind of convoluted, but it's just what's happening. We'll have more of this conversation after this.

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For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. No, I think it's really fascinating. By the way, Bob Marley's granddaughter, her mother is Lauryn Hill from the Fugees, which Sean and I both know who that is.

So yeah, she is an activist. It's interesting who he's bringing into these conversations. So you have sort of these culture makers on the left, culture makers on the right, including Candace Owens, which is there a Catholic connection here with the Candace Owens thing? No, I haven't actually,

I know that Candace converted to Catholicism. I didn't know that. I must've been recent because I don't know much about it, to be honest. Evita, I think it's fascinating you say that the youth are all about being countercultural and going against the norm, which I actually would agree with that statement. I'm going on a little offshoot here. And I think your mom and I's generation was very much like that in generations before us.

They look like a bunch of little sheep, whether it was on college campuses with COVID and masks and shots and lockdowns and taking the line from the administration or from the government and being the enforcers of the administration in regard to COVID. Again, they don't seem to be as rebellious and the renegades that we found from prior generations, which, by the way, I think is shameful. And I think it's an interesting point that Catholicism, Christianity, morality, the idea of true equality, the idea that merit matters more than anything else, you know, in our society, we're a meritorious society those ideas are all now countercultural and it'll be interesting if this next generation will kind of go hey you know what i'm gonna go back to this this being a countercultural youth which actually is going back to the ideas that you know were very mainstream and normal you know in prior generations i'm not sure if that's going to happen but i think kanye is doing something. Again, to your point, it's countercultural, which again, 30, 40 years ago,

this actually was all of culture, but today it's so excluded and unaccepted that now it is this countercultural idea that white lives and black lives matter. Wow. I love the Pope. Wow, that's countercultural today. At least John Paul II in regard to Popes, not Francis. I wouldn't argue that this is going to be a movement. I don't think it is. Like a big, overwhelming movement. I think that the majority of young people are leftists. The majority of young people would turn in their parents if the FBI came knocking at their door I I think that it's a very serious problem but what I am saying is that there's an emerging minority of people who are noticing things and being attracted to these kind of counter-cultural but actually you know you know, very true ideas. So here's something else. So he shows up to this fashion, to his own fashion show.

It's Yeezy season, season nine in Paris, his fashion show. He wears his shirt. He stirs up this controversy, gets in all the headlines. He knows that's going to happen. And interestingly, one of his biggest critics is his wife who's white um or of Armenian descent um and she basically says white passing as a leftist would say yeah she's white passing um and she basically says crying he's just trying to get attention and he's he's being this really, truly offensive. So he says, white lives matters. My wife's white life matters. And she says, that's offensive. His kids are half white. And so that's just what's so interesting to me is, as we evolve as a culture, as we,

we evolve as a culture, as we, you know, intermarry, as we, you know, instead of, you know, embracing this oneness that we should have as a humanity, as people, you still have, I think, these forces and culture that are really the elites, those in Hollywood, people like his wife, Kim Kardashian, in Hollywood, people like his wife, Kim Kardashian, who are still so afraid of what that could mean to her. There's a reason why she stepped up. She wants to make sure everybody in her corporate money-making world knows that she does not stand with Kanye on this. She needs to do that for her money. I think that what Kim did is actually indicative of something much bigger than just her career. Why are white students on college campuses showing up to these anti-racist events where they know they're going to be mistreated by the activists? Why do you post these black squares and then get, in the comments section, schooled and educated by all these other minorities who say it's not your place to talk about this. I mean, these are white people who

continually try to prove that I'm not one of them. I'm anti-racist. And every time they get beat for it. Are they being sincere, Vida, or are they self-loathing white people? Yeah, I mean, they're totally self-loathing. And it's a social ladder kind of thing. It's not, I mean, definitely money is tied into it depending on where you are, but it's more like what kind of friends are you gonna have? You don't want people to think that you're racist. You don't want people to think

that you don't care about BLM or you're not. I mean, this is like a mind game that they play where people feel like they need to denigrate their own skin color to be accepted in society. It is very important. And all you have to do is make a couple of examples of people in society of high power to take them down, take them out, to let everyone else know you don't have as much power as they do. So don't try it. And my example here is Sharon Osbourne, who has just come over to as a great special on Fox nation right now, but she was on the talk and she came out and defended her friend, Pierce Morgan, who was going after Megan Markle.

I'm trying to bring this back to the Royals, which Rachel probably loves, but she was going after. You're always bringing up the Royals. I'm starting to not believe it. I know, but he was going after business. You're always bringing up the world. I'm starting to not believe you. I know, but it's a good example. They freaking took her off. She was fired. They roasted her for 20 minutes on the show,

and she was completely canceled, not for anything that she said. She didn't do anything but defend her friend, Piers Morgan, who the media was absolutely skewering. So now Kim Kardashian must go, oh, I saw what happened to Sharon Osbourne for defending Pierce. There's no way I'm ever going to defend Kanye West and my former husband because I'll be canceled. And I care too much about my fame and money than I do about truth. And that's what she's doing.

And it's not just about defending. It's what you don't say, too. So when Kanye went after the Vogue fashion editor for her bad boots, he said, you know, these shoes, I bet Anna Wintour, who's the editor-in-chief of Vogue, I bet she would hate these shoes. Yeah. Because he knows her. Right. And then the whole internet was saying, Anna Wintour, are you going to respond to this? Are you going to defend your editor? I don't actually know if Anna did respond. But the point is, she is under a lot of social pressure to respond. Otherwise, people are going to be very upset with her well listen this is the same woman anna wintour who refused to put uh melania on the cover of vogue during the four years she was first lady but has put on jill biden who is probably one of the most horrendously dressed um but like we talk about double standards and also put on uh you know michelle obama was on

like probably 10 times and then hillary was on the cover of vogue um no one's ever gone to hillary for fashion advice so do i think that anna wintour is going to eventually weigh in if she hasn't already i suspect she's a coward and she will she She'll throw Kanye under the bus. I think so. I think so too. I mean, it's not, it would be surprising to me if she didn't, but the point is that the pressure is there and that it's not just what you say, it's what you don't say too. It's not about fashion.

It's about politics in the fashion world. And we learned that during the Trump years. Well, I was just going to mention that. I think, I don't remember what disaster melania was going to but she wore pumps to this uh it was it was during the hurricane uh the the the situation and it was in texas right sean so she i don't know what it was some sort of disaster situation she wore she wore high heels and the media was just so scandalized by it that she would dare to wear heels to a to a a um a disaster location and then jill biden will wear his heels to uh biden's trip to look at the wreckage of

hurricane ian no response everyone's you know totally fine with that both the heels i looked at the heels that melania wore on her disaster trip and then the heels that jill jill or dr biden wore better you better say doctor heels were much nicer in fact i don't know who's been dressing jill biden but it is no bueno it's no bueno uh i did not i did not look at the difference actually they're close yes dad when i interject no i was gonna say i did not i did not look at the heels. They're close. Yes, Dad, you want to interject? No, I was going to say I did not, I didn't look at the heels closely in the style that was by Melania Trump or Jill Biden. But I do think just as I come kind of full circle off of heels, we should live in a society where if you want to go after Kanye West, don't call him a racist. Actually, debate on why he's wrong on White Lives Matter.

Actually, write an article and make the case, the argument, that backs up your point. And what you see now on the left, because it's all, I mean, up is down, left is right, in is out. I mean, everything is getting flipped on its head. left is right, in is out. I mean, everything is getting flipped on its head. I mean, to your point, now the head of Vogue is going to have to say her fashion editor's boots are fashionable when everyone probably knows they're not. She has to say something false. That's happening all over the place. Wouldn't it be great if we got back to the idea that we had smart people who could debate ideas um and and and do it publicly instead of just resorting back to you're wrong um and that means you're a racist and that's all that's the only argument that they have you're racist you're ringing else it's devolved into so the um the

editor gabriella carifa johnson who the one who first came out from Vogue and, you know, criticized Kanye. Said his fashion show was not art. Yeah, said the fashion show was an art that she felt that the shirt, you know, provoked, you know, was violent. You know, words are violence to them. But here's what she posted afterwards because she, because again, Kanye came out and mocked her fashion. Which is, of course, goes to the heart of her job, right? I mean, and again, if you look at her- She lives in 2013.

Yeah, she does not strike me as very fashionable. But what's interesting is where she's gone with it. So Sean, you were saying, why don't you confront me on why white lives don't matter or tell me why BLM has been great for black people. This tells you all you need to know about, you know, the era we're living in with what she responded to. Here's what she wrote on her Instagram. She wrote,

I fielded some serious volatility over the last couple of days. This is Gabriella Karifa Johnson, 31 years old. I feel some serious volatility over the last couple of days. This is Gabriella Karifa Johnson, 31 years old. I've felt some serious volatility over the last couple of days, but nothing has been quite as bad as what people have said about my body and the way I look. The fat phobia jumped at me. Yes, I am fat. No, I am not humiliated to show up as my authentic self in the world. So now it goes to body shaming. And this is, again, a way to avoid talking about the real issues that I think his shirt brought up about. About Black Lives Matter, about whether white lives matter, about the state of racism, about anti-communism, because I think that my take on the John Paul II part is, one, about a return to faith and faithfulness. But also, I think that John Paul II is seen as the counter-Pope to the current socialist Pope.

So I personally take it as an anti-communist message in there who knows but the point is but connie understood the assignment sean we're all talking about it we're all thinking about it whether the left wants us to think about blm and race relations in america or pope john paul ii or pope francis we're all thinking and talking about it right now but what's what fascinates me is also what's happening here, where the aggressor, the abuser, and the bully, whatever her name is at Vogue, is going after Kanye, trying to punch him in the head verbally

and slander him. When Kanye hits her back, all of a sudden, she's a victim. She's now the victim, and she needs everyone to come to her defense. It's like, she's a victim she's now the victim and she needs everyone to come to her defense it's like she's the victim if you just shut up and talked about fashion and left kanye alone no one would be talking about your weight or your boots right because you it's her job to judge the fashion she is she didn't judge the fashion she didn't exactly and by the way the person who did judge fashion was kanye because what Kanye did, he didn't talk about her body. He didn't talk about her weight. He didn't talk about her body.

He said, I know Anna Wintour, and that's her boss. That's Gabrielle's boss, would hate your boots. It's just such a funny troll. It's awesome. Well said. I don't know how I keep getting stuck in these podcasts on fashion and the Royals. I do my best. But I do my best. I do my best.

You love Kanye. And you love how he finds a way. And I think that's the bottom line here. Kanye finds a way to take art, to take fashion, to take music, and really capture the zeitgeist of the moment, the politics that's going on, and say things that people know to be true, but in this day and age are afraid to say it.

And I think that's why, love him or hate him, he's essential in pop culture right now. Well, I love that he uses his power to have conversations that aren't being had, that should be had. And again, to your point on race relations, on Black Lives Matter and the scam that it was, that he is using his voice to actually draw attention to these themes is a very positive and bold and brave and courageous thing that Kanye is doing. And I applaud him for that. And I'm grateful that he's doing that. He is, he is a soldier and a warrior for debate and truth. And I love that. I don't agree with everything he's, he's written and all the things,

but I love that he's doing this because in a, in a, in a, in an open society, we should debate, we should have conversation and we should call fraudsters fraudsters. And he's doing just that. Before we go, how do you think that, do you think that young people see what Kanye did, even if they agree with the premise of white life matter, but do they, do they take some courage or some heart in the courage that Kanye has, that he continues

to say what he thinks, regardless of the consequences. He keeps making money, by the way, doing it, which is fascinating to me. But do they find it at all courageous? Do they want to have that kind of freedom in their own lives to say what they think and be that kind of person out there? I think that's right. And I think that happens anytime anybody stands up to the regime in that way. It happens at a small level. You're trying to start a Young America's Foundation at your high school and say things that maybe you go to a really left-wing school and nobody wants to hear those things or say those things. And you fight really hard to get your chapter at your school. and then suddenly people

feel that they're freer to say the things that they never were able to say I think that's what happened when I you know started the Chicago Thinker where people weren't conservative ideas weren't there at all nobody was talking about them or they were afraid to be name called in the way that leftists usually do they call the racist racist, call the xenophobe, call the homophobe. And suddenly when we had this newspaper that was expressly conservative and libertarian, these ideas became much more accepted. People stopped being as volatile because it became more normalized. That's what needs to happen. And I think that's what's inspiring is. And that's what Kanye's doing. He's normalizing. On a very large scale. But I think it happens on small scales too all the time. This happened in Paris. He's normalizing. On a very large scale. But I think it happens on small scales too, all the time.

This happened in Paris. It's all over the Paris newspapers, the gossip columns in Europe. It's, you know, it's a global, what he did was global impact. And BLM went global. Let's not forget that BLM was a global movement. They were BLM. Yeah, marches in Paris and in London. Hungary. I mean, there's everywhere. So my thought is that, yeah, that I hope that he's giving courage to people that they can say what they think. And I think, if nothing else, he deserves credit for that. Absolutely. And you're probably making some money because he's going to sell more of his clothes because he was bold

and courageous. And now, to you guys' point, everyone's talking about him. Everyone's seeing what he's doing because of his courage on this issue.

So, yeah. Listen, I think it's a, well, fun conversation. Talking about culture. Thank you both for enlightening me a little bit on the Kanye issue and making me read some articles and do a little prep on this issue. I appreciate it.

It's great to have Avita on the podcast with us as well. Again, she wrote an article for The Federalist. You can catch her article, by the way, at The Federalist. What's the title exactly, Avita? Oh, my goodness. My editor changed my title, so I'm going to read it for you. Way to call her out. It is Kanye's artsy White Lives Matter display invites people to reject groupthink and the left hates it.

Actually, good on your editor. That's a great title. I love that. I love that. Kanye's artsy White Lives Matter display invites people to reject groupthink and the left hates it. That's right. Because if you can just shut down the other side, guess what? You get to win the argument. But once somebody else gets to get on the other side, you suddenly have a debate and people have to think and think hard about whether they agree with something or not. Good on Kanye. Thank you, Evita, for bringing this topic to us.

Love it. Thank you for having me. Yeah. We're going to have you at the kitchen table again. No doubt about that. Well, listen, if you like our podcast, you can rate, review, subscribe, wherever you get your podcasts. We appreciate you joining us today at our kitchen table, having a little Duffy family conversation, talking a little culture, a little Kanye. So, listen, we're grateful.

And tune in next week as we come back with more exciting new topics. And, but we've said this, we've told you this for quite some time now, but we are about to go video. We are at the cost. I'm not going to promise.

I'm not going to, I'm not going to promise you next week as Skippy barks in the background, but I think we're going to make it happen next week. So tune in for that as well, as we don't just do this on audio, but hopefully bring you actually to our kitchen table with video as well. So with that, thank you all for joining us. Hi, everybody. Kudlow on Fox Business is now on the go for podcast fans.

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