From the Kitchen Table: The Duffys - Dating Apps Aren't Working: Gen-X Advice On Finding Love & Your Soulmate

Episode Date: March 24, 2023

On this episode, Sean and Rachel sit down to discuss the trouble facing young people in the world of dating, how dating apps have affected how people meet, and share their advice on how to fix your love life.   Later, they explain how forming relationships was easier in the 1980s and 1990s and how social media has warped young people's perceptions of each other. Follow Sean and Rachel on Twitter: @SeanDuffyWI & @RCamposDuffy   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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BetMGM.com for terms and conditions. Must be 19 years of age or older to wager. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Hey everyone, welcome to From the Kitchen Table. I'm Sean Duffy along with my co-host for the podcast, my partner in life and my wife, Rachel

Campos Duffy. It's great to be back at the kitchen table and today we have an important topic, dating, love, the most important thing in the world and a lot of people are having a hard time sean they really are and so we want to talk about the problems with dating right now which is specifically online dating and then we want to talk about solutions on how you can navigate this craziness and find love find true love so then so let's start by talking about how we met because it's kind of a piece of the puzzle. It is.

So we were talking about how people are online dating and what they're doing. And we are absolutely convinced that if we had been thrust into today's world with today's dating apps and all the texting and all the virtual relationships, we would not end up together. We would not be together. We wouldn't have nine kids and 24 years of marriage. Okay. And here's why. So here's the problem. So when we met, we met on a reality TV show on MTV. Yeah, which is odd. Okay. Let's grant not everyone meets on reality TV. But everyone meets in odd ways. We meet each other. And I am a lumberjack,

We meet each other, and I am a lumberjack, hickey dude from Wisconsin. I've got some pretty bad glasses, not a great haircut, and I'm wearing flannel and jeans and steel-toed boots, right? Rachel is living in L.A., and I'm not her jam at all when she first sees me. And by the way, I thought Rachel was attractive, but she was a, much for me. No, no, no. Let's just make this clear. He was super into me and I was not that into him because I was looking at the, at like sort of the superficial stuff, but we were forced, we, I know we were forced to hang out together because we were on a Rose rules MTV show, which meant for three weeks, we're

going to hang out together. So if I had made an instant decision about Sean, which is what people are doing on KDS. If she was forced to swipe. If I was forced to swipe, I would have swiped. Not just in a two... What is it? Left is bad, right is... I don't even know. You could take two seconds for a swipe, but if you took

two hours or two days, even in two days, she still would not have swiped me. I was... By two days, I was like, you know what? This guy's really nice. But he grew on me. And that's the point. That is why we are absolutely convinced that if you want

to find true love, you must get off of these apps. But I had to be charming and somewhat funny and endearing and engaging. He had to engage. And I listened to her and I complimented her and I carried her bags. I did a lot of nice things to make her go, oh, you're really nice. So I had to work it, right?

Yeah, exactly. Old school work it. So he had to work it. He had to use communication skills. He had to use, I think, the dying art of flirting flirting works flirting is important in a courtship because courtships are dead these days and by the way hold on by the flirting by night stop with me by 1990 standards i am not a good flirter right i was not that impressive but hold on but nice that was learning that was great But my skill set that I take from the 90s to today, like they have no skills.

Like I'd be like the master of the 90s. Because no one knows how to engage a woman and women don't know how to engage men. And it makes sense why they don't know, Sean, because so many people are texting. On their phones. Or they're sending a fire emoji or a heart or a smiley face, and they're not communicating. And so I think the other piece of this puzzle outside of getting – get off the online dating, but start building up this communication skill of flirting and courtship and talking on the phone. You're getting to the solution before we get to the problem. Okay, let's get to the problem.

Let's talk about – so give me the – everyone's moving away from your point, courtship, and they're moving online. Yeah, huge percentages of people. Everyone's online, but talk to me about the stats of how successful are people who meet online? Do you find love there? Is this the pathway for a successful relationship and then marriage and then family? So tell me. So I think people are falling into this for really, you know, good reasons because

I also, even though there was no online dating when we were dating, there weren't even cell phones when we were dating. That's how old we are and how long we've been married. But No, you had a cell phone. I think a cell phone was just coming on. It was like this giant thing in my, in my, in my Volkswagen Cabriolet. It was like this giant thing in my Volkswagen Cabriolet. It was like this giant phone, like the kind you see in the 80s movies. You're like this. There was no online dating. But I also felt very optimistic for people as they were dating.

And I remember telling people, because a lot of people would come to me, because I'm a little bit of a matchmaker and people come to me with their love problems. And I'm like, are you online dating? That's great. Because I thought like everybody else that if you had this giant pool of people that then you would have more, you know, more people, more options, more chances of finding love. And it turns out that's not true at all. In fact, marriage is at an all-time low today. Now, it doesn't mean that people don't want marriage. 44% of the people who go online are looking for a spouse. Now, the other 40% want casual dating. There's a lot of people that just want hookups.

But I think people are very well-intentioned. They're going on. They want to find true love. But both the online culture and the sort of lack of talking culture that's going on in our world right now, plus the really bad habits that are created through online dating are making their chances low. So what I'm saying is people will swipe people because they just don't look great or they'll go on one date. And because they know there's this giant pool of people that they can meet, they're turning, people go because they know that even the slightest little thing, they can find somebody else.

So let me give you an example, Sean, because this just came out. This kind of went viral. This is a perfect example of what I mean. A girl, she finds somebody online that she wants to date with. They connect. They go on a date. They go out for a burger. The guy orders a cheeseburger.

The waiter says, hey, just an FYI, the cheeseburger, the cheese is an extra $4. He rethinks it and says, you know what? I'll hold the cheese, you know? And she gets super turned off by this. And by the way, she recounts this on her Instagram story or whatever. And she goes to the bathroom. She's like, I got to get out of here. And she basically ends the day early because she's so turned off by this guy who would,

by the way, in the middle of a recession, turn down a $4. In her mind, she was thinking, this guy's going to be a cheapskate, right? She didn't give him a chance. She, you know, threw him out really in a very callous way over a really small thing. And he could have been Mr. Right. Other people, Sean, are throwing people out because, you know, they don't, they put in like, I only want to meet people who are six feet tall. So anyone who's less than six feet tall, they're not even considering. So I think this online dating allows you to sort of create this idea of perfection. And ultimately, that's not what relationships are about, right? The bottom line is, if you want to hook up, go online.

If you want to one night stand. If you're looking for love, the data and the stats will tell you it's not working for you. You're not going to find love on some app. And so the question becomes, well, then what should I do? What solutions should I implement in my life to make me the most likely to find true love? Yes. And the answer is go back to the 80s. Go back to the 90s. Yes.

We're going to go back to the 90s for instruction on how you can find love in 2013. Okay. So how did people find, how did people meet outside of MTV reality TV shows? How did people meet in the 80s and the 90s, Sean? Think about that. Exactly. How did they? Well, so we would go out with friends, right?

We'd go out in friend groups. So I have a quick story. My best friend from high school went to one college. I went to a different college. And one night, so my college friends were going to a bar and I invited my best friend from high school to come to that college bar, right? And he met, my high school buddy, met one of the girls that I knew from

college. They got married and now have three kids, right? It was that connection that brought them together. But go out with groups of people and friends meet friends of friends. And that's how you find, again, people that are like-minded because if you have, if you have friends, probably their friends that you don't know will probably be your friend. Right. No, no. And by the way, Sean and I are big, big on the idea that opposites do not attract that in terms of marriage and what we've learned over the 24 years that it'll be 24 years next month on that we've been married is we believe that what's kept us together have been everything we have in common. Our values that we share, the things that we like that we have in common.

I don't think that finding, you know, marrying somebody, I'll just be really frank. I don't think Democrats and Republicans should get married. It's very rare that you find like a James Carville, Mary Matlin situation where, you know, that kind of thing works out. It worked out for them. God bless them. But I don't think that's very common. So you want to find somebody that you have the most in common with. And you're right. Friend groups help to do that. The other thing is that and this has to do with the politics of our day, people met at work. And of course, that's a little touchy now because there's been all, you know, there's so much emphasis on, you know, workplace harassment and everyone's afraid and we're living this litigious sexual harassment environment. And a lot of men are afraid to flirt at work, right? Because of that situation. to flirt at work, right? Because of that situation. But, you know, I've met people who have met at work and other people criticize them. And I'm like, what? Like, way more normal to meet at work than to meet online. Like, I don't understand this world that we live in. And so obviously,

you want to be careful and not harass people at work. But if you like somebody at work, that's a normal, natural way. So maybe we ought to rethink that a little bit. There are some light engagements and light flirting that someone can do. To figure out, right? And also, flirting might just be conversations. A little extra chat at the water cooler, if you will. And then maybe it's like, maybe people from work should go out together and grab drinks. Now, if you're going to do that, don't go get sloshed and get yourself in trouble, right? Actually have a drink, maybe two,

and that's it. So you actually maintain some control. And that's strategic because you actually want to, you know, again, woo this person that you know at work that you're interested in, and you have an opportunity outside of work going out for drinks, but don't get the liquid courage going because that, especially today, that will end poorly. That could end very badly. For your job and for your love life. I think professionally as well. I would say that as soon as you meet somebody, and even if you do meet, and look, we're not

living in la-la land where we think you're never going to be online on an online dating app. I say give yourself a diet of it, like get off of it for a few months and see how it goes by just being, you know, stop living in this facsimile faux fake world of online virtual. But, OK, if you do meet someone, immediately go to the phone. Do not have a text relationship, because I think what text relationships, when you just meet, they create a level of, first of all, I think it can be, it can seem like you're closer than you actually are. There is no substitute for eye to eye contact dates, meeting, talking. And again, as you mentioned, Sean, people's dating skills, flirting skills, conversational skills have all gone down the tubes because of all the phone stuff.

So this is your chance to build up that skill set. So get on the phone. Go meet in person. Go date in person. So you can't save everyone out there who's looking for love, but you can save your own love life. And that means figure out yourself how to talk to people. Because, again, I'm sorry, there's a lot of grunting and animalistic behavior and then the phone. Right. What do you mean grunting? What are you talking about? They can't communicate. Like one sentence, one word kind of

stuff. Yeah, a lot of emoji. Emoji, emoji, emoji, emoji. Right. Yeah, it's not. Love, love, thumbs up. Stop that. Do you know where else people met, Sean? So call. Yes. Learn how to flirt in a responsible way. Learn how to have conversations. And if you can do those things, actually, because we're human, the person you're trying to flirt with will find that kind of attractive. They'll actually kind of like it. And they'll probably start to feed off of you and do the same thing back. They'll stop texting. But if you have that skill, you are light years ahead of the competition in finding love and finding a good person that you want. It takes time. You don't just want to bring them in.

It takes time. So we talked about meeting people at work. The other place people met in the 80s was at the gym. I met lots of guys when I went to the gym. You did? was at the gym. I met lots of guys when I went to the gym. And now like now these girls are so annoying. Like you see these girls that are like, you know, filming guys and accusing them of staring at them. Well, I mean, this is the problem. Like people have just, you know, anyway, I met a lot of guys at the gym when I was at the university. And I thought that was a really warm,

you get, as you said, Sean, you get to know what someone's like, if they're healthy, they work out, they have the same interest in as you do in that regard. Well, I did not meet people at the gym because I didn't go to the gym. But I'll just tell you this. It's a lot of posers. I'm sorry. I wouldn't find gym. I mean, I don't know.

Some little tricky gym rat. I don't know. We're talking about the 80s. Like, where did people meet? So, the mall. We go to the mall. You guys can go to the mall and you can meet stranger things. Amazon's really never-

They are. Amazon is screwing everything up. If you just go back to the mall, love would be like so easy again. Or the arcade, John. Remember that? Or what is it? Orange Julius. You know what?

Just recreate stranger things. Recreate stranger things in Popgun. Wait, don't turn the podcast off. We're kidding. No, but this is serious stuff. Honestly, clearly people are not happy. Let's talk about the end game here. If you go to church, you meet good people at church, like-minded people of faith. They're probably a little more conservative if they're going to church. You know, that's actually not a bad place. And also, if you're a nice person when you go to church and you meet some of the other little ladies that are at church, they may go, oh, I have my granddaughter. She's just such a cute little button.

I'm going to bring her next week. And you got to let those ladies know that you're in the market. And you never know how love comes into your life or person in your life. And you have to put yourself out there to your point, Rachel, and tap every resource that you have to bring that special person that you're going to have a whole bunch of little babies with into your life. Wait right there. We're going to have more of that conversation next. to your life. Wait right there. We're going to have more of that conversation next. Two freshly cracked eggs any way you like them. Three strips of naturally smoked bacon and a side of toast. Only $6 at A&W's in Ontario. Experience A&W's classic breakfast on now. Dine-in only until 11 a.m. And the problem with online dating is that it's the lazy man's way of dating.

Yes. It's the lazy man's way of dating. You have to just cut out the apps, get rid of them, and start putting yourself out there. Build your communication skills. You're worth more than that. Don't make yourself so easy. Yeah. Make someone, right?

You can't even get a swipe over me. You got to come and engage me and woo me and make me laugh and you know what it's it i know we said it earlier but it really needs to be said if i had made a one minute one hour one week one month decision on sean we would not be together he took time to woo me and I fell in love with him because of that. And it wasn't instantaneous. And that's, I think what online dating, this is the, the, the, the false, um, sort of ideas that are get developed because of it. And I want to bring up another thing. We mentioned us and how that happened, but I think there are some people who see each other

and they're like, this was love at first sight. And I believe that happened, but most people, that's not the way it happens. It does. It does take some time and some conversation and some moving and getting to know, to get, to get the other person to maybe see through some of those initial faults

that one might have, or, or initial maybe rejections that you would swipe across if you're online, you do get through those things and you don't even see them anymore. And again, the timeframe and the engagement is what matters to do that. And again, that's how love happens. That's how most married people get to be married is they take that time and the apps don't allow for that. Right. There's some other impediments that I think are really unique to this generation that

is making it harder for them to meet people. So now the average age that a boy encounters pornography online is age 11 now. Super young. So you're seeing young people growing up because of the phones and social media and how these pornographers target young people. And it's become really normalized and not just for guys, but for girls. And again, this is another distortionary facsimile kind of thing that's happening. And I think it's distorting people's perception of love and sex and what real people look like and act like. And I think it's super destructive. If you are addicted to porn, and there are millions of people out there who are addicted

to porn, you got to address that problem, because that's not just going to affect your ability to find a mate. It's going to hurt your marriage in the long term. We're actually going to try and do a show on this topic, because I think it's so important to that piece of the puzzle of why young people aren't able to form relationships the way they did in the past. So that is something that's in your life that you need to work on, then you need to work on that because that's part of that piece of the puzzle. Here's the problem. What people see on their screen with pornography doesn't match what real

life is like. And if all you've seen is pornography and then you experience the real thing, it can be a letdown. It's not what the production of the porn is. And that distortion can have a huge impact on people's ability to one, engage each other, but also be satisfied with their partner. And also for some men, functionality has become a problem. There's an epidemic of erectile dysfunction for young men. I wasn't sure I could say that, but I guess Rachel says I can say that. They can't perform because they are addicted to porn. We're going to get into that on another episode,

but that's just a piece of the puzzle I think we need to address as part of this. I think you're right. And again, setting expectations. And just also, you talked about this as well. When you do the dating apps, it's the best picture, the airbrush photo with the best makeup. I talk about Rachel. The filters. Rachel looks great with the lighting and the makeup at Fox. Amazing. She doesn't quite look like that at three in the morning when she wakes up to go into the studio. It looks a little bit different. I do love Fox lighting.

I love that team that does the lighting. If you present yourself as the Fox makeup and hair and lighting, and then you get the not lighting, not the filter, not the makeup, not the hair, but you just get you. Well, you still dress up for your first take. No, I know, but no one gets the Fox hair and makeup, right? You don't get that part of it. You still look great though. The lighting. And my point is the same thing happens. Yeah, there can be disappointment. If you see somebody who's super filtered and super airbrushed online and then you meet in person, there's obviously going to be some of that disappointment. So here's the last phase of

what we want to talk about here. Final phase. disappointment. So here's the last phase of what we want to talk about here. The final phase is, you know, we live in a culture that does not prioritize love and marriage. It's an anti-child, anti-family, anti-marriage culture. It tells women and men to prioritize their careers. And listen, I love my career and my professional life, you know, is very fulfilling to me. And I know Sean can say the same for himself. But my belief, and I feel very strongly about this, is that the message that people like Sheryl Sandberg, you know, is giving women that, you know, put your foot on the gas pedal. Don't let go, go, go, go, career, career, career. I tell young women all the time and they come to me and they ask me questions all the time

about love and marriage because that's like one of my favorite things to talk about. And I tell them, prioritize your love life. I'm sure if Fox and Friends knew how many young producers I've told to prioritize their love life and if that schedule is not working for them, they had to move on to another show that gives them a better balance for their social life. Listen, it's so important. Love and marriage is the most important thing because if you find the right mate, all your other dreams professionally and otherwise will work themselves out with the right person. You marry the wrong person, or if you just end up not marrying and you really do want to marry, you will be unhappy.

And so you have to make marriage and date. And if you want to make marriage a priority, then you've got to make dating a priority and dating in the right way that will give you the best results. And I say this because I don't think that I would be, I mean, when you're young and you're in your twenties, Sean, you don't ever think you'll be 40 or 50, but the truth is it happens. It does happen. It happens. You get older. And these, if these are, you have to think ahead about what you want 20, 30 years from now. And there are things you have to do in your 20s and 30s in terms of your love life to make that happen. And those who try to find a mate in their 20s, there's a lot of people in their 20s that aren't married and they have limited baggage. But if you do your career and wait until your 30s or 40, a lot of people already picked. They've already been taken. They're already in a marriage

and the pickings are slimmer or you might have someone coming out of a marriage that are divorced and inherently there's a little more baggage that comes with that from that past relationship. You have an ex spouse, bad habits, you might have kids. And then, so that's like, and you don't have the same kind of pickings as you do in your twenties.

But then if you're in your forties and fifties and maybe you were married and you're divorced and now you're coming back into the scene and it's, you know, you have, you have, everyone's coming to kind of, you have a recycling happening, um,

making it a priority, again, because people come in and they want to find a second love life, and they come in and they find someone they get out. So if you're not engaged, you might miss that right person who's been divorced, still a great person, and you'd be a perfect match. But if you're just swiping people online, it's like, listen, again, by the way, if you're 50, you lived through the 80s and the 90s. Go back to what you know. Go back to what you know. Go back to what worked for you. Yeah. I will say, back to your point about how much wider your options are in your 20s and your early 30s, let's just be really honest about it. It's true. And also the beautiful thing about finding somebody, we met in our late twenties. And, you know, we weren't totally formed and in our habits.

And so, you know, it can be really hard to date and find somebody, you know, later on in life, when you're sort of, you know, stuck in the mud in terms of what you like, I think part of what worked for us is that we were able to adjust to each other easier because we didn't really form a lot of habits in a single life yet, right? And I think that that's, so there's some real positive things about starting early. I think this idea of, you know, putting career first and waiting until you're in your forties, it's not working and you can see it in the stats. People are unhappy. A record number of young people depressed, record number of people who want to be married, aren't married, aren't finding the right people. So let's just sum this up for people

if they have to sum it up, what we're saying here. One. Top Gun. Top Gun. Two. The Mall. The Mall. Right. Stranger Things.

Stranger Things. The Arcade. The Classics. Dairy Queen. Yes. Orange Julius. Orange Julius. Yes.

This is what Rachel in the 90s, Jim. Right. Oh, boy. Okay. No, seriously, Sean, the point is, think about what people did in the 80s and 90s, how they met people, the communication skills, work on the art of flirting, courtship,

talking on the phone instead of texting. That's right. Deleting your apps and don't do. And just try for a few months to do everything you can to get out there socially, let everyone in your circle know that you want to meet someone. And I think it will happen for you. And by the way, just a side note, I see this with my own kids and I see this with all these young people. They're on their phones all the time and they just text each other. They can all be in the same room together and they're texting each other all sitting around in one room. It's crazy. And you guys, if you're younger,

you know that the problem is if you don't know how to communicate, if you don't know how to talk again, and this, we've been talking about dating and the relationship building, but what you're doing, if you're, if you're getting off your phone and you're actually talking to someone, that's actually setting you up for a healthy marriage. Because when you have trouble in your marriage, and you all will, everyone gets in fights. It's not just roses, sunshines, and unicorns. You will fight with your spouse. And it's a healthy thing. And if you get through it, marriage is beautiful. But you don't win a gold medal at the Olympics and

stand on the podium because it was easy. It was really hard to get there. It's not this hard for marriage, but you do have to work at it. Some days I'm really hard. But it takes the ability to communicate. Yeah. Right? You can't just text your wife through a fight or do text wars.

No. That's not the way to resolve things. We have done that, and the worst fights we have are text wars. So we don't do it anymore. It's just a dumb way to do it. So not only is talking, getting off your phone going to help you find a spouse, but then it's going to help you stay married with that spouse because you have the skill sets and the tools for a long lasting, healthy marriage that you can navigate through the tough times.

You know what, Sean? You bring up such a good point. Thank you. You know, Dana Perino, our friend Dana Perino, met her husband on an airplane. It's the greatest story ever. It's the greatest story. She found the love of her life on an airplane. Yes.

Nowadays, I was thinking about this. I was thinking about Dana. Yeah, she met Peter there. And I would never meet someone on an airplane anymore because I'm guilty when I get on the plane. I'm not trying to meet anyone, by the way. Thank you. I would never meet someone on an airplane anymore because I'm guilty when I get on the plane. I'm not trying to meet anyone by the way. But I mean, everyone's on their phone. No one sits. In fact, most people sit down and go, I hope the guy next to me or the lady next to me doesn't talk to me. Right. That's how most people are these days because we've become so antisocial as a culture. And yet, if I think back

to the 80s, I remember having some great conversations with people, not even romantic, but just I remember sitting and talking to the people next to me on the plane. Because there was no internet. No videos would play and you had no phones. It's like, if you want to entertain yourself, you're like, hey, where are you from? What do you do? That's so 80s. Nancy seeing you here in 32C. But point well made.

And again, those skill sets were actually healthy. So let's bring back communication. Let's bring back flirting. Let's bring back dating. And let's put away the apps. And put away the apps. And definitely put away the porn. So just a couple ideas. To navigate a situation today in America

for love that's not working. Yeah. People aren't finding love there. So go to the places that you can find love and build the skill sets that'll help you find the right mate and be successful with that mate. Yeah, and into the future. So listen, we want to do a part two on this. We do. We are,

we're going to do a part two on this. We're going to unpack your question. So for all of you are listening to this, if you have some specific questions, we'd love to hear them. I'm going to put immediately after the show, I'm going to post online. When this gets posted, we're going to put a question on there, like a place where you can put your questions and you can put them in the comments. And we're going to do a part two where we answer all your very specific questions about our advice. Maybe you think we're crazy. Maybe you think we're just. Tell us that. Tell us that.

But we're not. By the way, we're right. I think we're right. Do you see the gray hair? Listen, we're right. That's wisdom. I think we're just, tell us that. Tell us that. But we're not, by the way, we're right. I think we're right. Do you see the gray hair? Yeah. That's wisdom. We're right. That's wisdom. I think we're right.

Tell us if we're wrong. Tell us what we're missing. We're going to come back. And if, whether it's on this or anything else, you want to ask questions, feel free, jump in. So listen, after the podcast, we're going to put up our digits. Yeah. I'm going to put, I'm going to post this episode with a spot for people to put questions in.

Great. All right. All right. Well, this is going to post this episode with a spot for people to put questions in. Great. All right. This is going to be our first. By the way, Sean, this is going to be our first time doing Q&A, the new third episode a week of Q&A. Third episode a week. Wow. So we'll do that. And get your questions into us.

You can ask us anything you want. Tell us anything you want. We're ready to answer. We can't wait. It's going to be fun. All right. Tell us anything you want. We're ready to answer.

We can't wait. It's going to be fun. So listen, thanks for joining us on this lovely episode of From the Kitchen Table. It's the 80s retro. Retro version. Why don't you put your phone up and tell me what I'm supposed to say? Oh, right. I left my phone over here. Because if you like our podcast, we'd ask that you rate, review, subscribe.

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