From the Kitchen Table: The Duffys - Diving Into America’s Ozempic Obsession

Episode Date: January 19, 2024

Gone are the days of low-carb diets and strict exercise routines— instead, millions of Americans are turning to Ozempic! Though the drug was initially used to help diabetics manage their blood sugar levels, it’s now toted as a reliable way to treat obesity. So what are the long-term effects of this drug? What could happen to people taking it who aren’t considered overweight in the first place? Sean and Rachel are joined by board-certified radiologist Dr. Nicole Saphier and mammography technician Erin, who’s currently using Ozempic, to discuss how the drug causes significant weight loss, the possible side effects and long-term impacts that could come with it, and why it’s become such a massive fad amongst Americans. Follow Sean & Rachel on Twitter: @SeanDuffyWI & @RCamposDuffy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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BetMGM.com for terms and conditions. Must be 19 years of age or older to wager. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Hey everyone, welcome to From the Kitchen Table. I'm Sean Duffy, along with my co-host for the podcast. She's also my partner in life and my wife, Rachel Campos Duffy. Sean, it's great to

be back. We have a hot topic today. Yes, we do. Everyone's talking about Ozempic. You know, the celebrities have never looked better, have never looked skinnier, and there's a lot of questions around it. So I thought it would be great to invite my friend, Dr. Nicole Sapphire. Everybody who watches Fox knows she's a board-certified radiologist. She's an American medical journalist. She's our network go-to for all medical things. I'd like to correct that. It's our friend, Nicole. Oh, yeah. No, she's my friend. She's our friend. She's my friend. And she has with her, Erin, who is a mammography technologist who works with her, who happens to also have tried Ozempic and is very happy with it.

So, you know, we've heard some of the positives. We've heard a lot of the negatives. I thought it would be really great to have both of you on. So welcome to kind of break down just what Erin's experience is with it, why she did it, and how it's going. And then I know that if you're friends with Nicole, she's only going to tell you the truth about how it's affecting your body, because that's my experience with Nicole. We want to know, when should it be used? When shouldn't it be used? What are the side effects for it? Kind of a whole knowledge conversation,

because if you're going to do it, on the outside, you see some really remarkable results, but there's some long-term complications that could come from it. So why don't we start with Nicole, because Nicole, Erin's not the only person we know. I mean, you and I both know people who are on it and so far say they're happy. Why don't you kind of give me just overall your concern, and then we'll go to Erin and get her experience. Well, we're very excited to both be on with you. And Rachel, obviously, you and I have had many conversations about the Ozempic, Wagovi, Manjaro, kind of all of those GLP-1 agonists that, you know, are really trendy right now. And, you know, we live in a constant state of an obesity epidemic. And obesity is one of the

risk factors for pretty much the majority of health issues we deal with here in the United States from cardiovascular disease, respiratory illness, and many cancers as well. So it costs trillions of dollars to the United States every single year. So the fact that we have found something that is affording people to rapidly lose weight in a healthy way, this is a great thing when it comes to combating obesity. You know, one of my biggest concerns is that I believe that, you know, some people may be overusing it, may be misusing it. But I think it's really important that, you know, it shouldn't just be the morbidly obese people who are considering this medication, yet that is really who it's only FDA approved for. But there are a lot of other people who maybe are pre-diabetic, meaning they're not diabetic yet, but they're on their way,

or who may be just a little bit overweight, who needs a little bit of that jumpstart to help lose weight to get to a healthier place. And I think when we decided to do this podcast, that's why I had Aaron in mind. Because Aaron, for me, yes yes, obviously hands down, anyone who is morbidly obese, who has medical comorbidities should absolutely consider this medication in addition to other weight loss strategies because it's really hard to lose weight when you are already morbidly obese. But Erin was never morbidly obese. She was never even obese. And I want her to step in right now to talk about why she decided to start taking these medications. Great. My BMI was 30, which I think is considered obese, technically obese, but what is, what would, what is the, tell us what that line is? Like where, what is the line for

obese and not obese on that BMI number? BMI really is taking your body weight. It's called your body mass index store and it's taking your body weight and your height and other thing components. And it's really a scale anywhere from 15 to 20 is normal weight, 20 to 30 is overweight and 30 and above is technically obese. But I can tell you when I was my most athletic without fat and just a lot of muscle, it might be a, my essentially said I was overweight. So you have to take a BMI with a grain of salt. Um, so that's why when Aaron says that she was technically obese, I've known her for a long time and she was never obese, but was she at her goal weight absolutely not okay and also my blood fasting sugar was high um every time that i did blood work um so i was considered pre-diabetic and

then recently was diagnosed with high blood pressure which i did not want to go on medication for so when i had heard about the program that they were offering, I signed up for it and I was able to, with my BMI and those other two things that I had going on, I was able to qualify for the medication. So this is a really important point, Rachel and Sean. So she was told she was overweight. She was pre-diabetic. She didn't have diabetes yet. And she had high blood pressure. So immediately, what do we do as physicians? All right, well, here are the medications to help reduce those things. Well, Erin was like, pump the brakes. I'm not ready to take medications. Let me see what I can do to try and prevent these diseases from actually coming. She didn't want to

become diabetic. She didn't want to continue to have high blood pressure. And so one of that is to obviously lose weight. So I started it in May and I was going to stay on it for four months. Well, and what does it look like? It's not a pill. It's a shot. It's four, I got, it came in a box. It was four shots.

I took one shot every week. And the first dose was, it did not really affect me. I did not really feel any different. I didn't, I was still eating like I normally was eating before. The second dose, slightly, I started to feel it a little bit, but it wasn't until the third dose that I really felt the effect from the shot where I started losing weight and was eating much less. My initial goal was to stay on it for four months and I've been on it for eight months. Well, tell her why that thought process, you decided to stay on it for... Well, yeah. So I stayed on it for the four months and at that point, the last two months, I had really started to see a difference in losing weight. And,

you know, I wanted to continue. And then it was like coming towards the holidays. And I said, well, I want to stay on it for the holidays, because that's, you know, something that I always do, I will try a diet, and then the holidays come and I put the weight back on. And so I'll stay on it, you know, throughout the holidays. And then now I am at my goal weight. And I went down, I dropped down to a lower dose. And I spread out the shot like every 10 days instead of every week. And I'm just trying to maintain at this point. But my goal is to come off of it in another month or so. So what is what is the impact of Ozempic in the sense of are you just less hungry? What is the impact of Ozempic in the sense of are you just less hungry?

What is it doing for you? Yeah, so I really, that mindless eating where you're snacking or picking at something just because it's there, I just no longer did that. But it was kind of, you know, there were times where I just wasn't hungry at all, but knew that I had to eat something. So I would drink like a protein shake. I tried meal prepping in the beginning, but then I would find myself not really in the mood for what I cooked. So I was wasting a lot of food. It was kind of funny in that way. I didn't really know what I wanted to eat. And that was kind of tough. I didn't really change my diet. I wasn't eating salad every day, but I was significantly eating less.

So what do you mean you didn't know what you wanted to eat? Like you weren't getting the signals of what you wanted to eat? Explain that because then I want to – go ahead. I didn't know what I was in the mood for. Like I just – I would make something and then I was like, oh, I'm really not in the mood for this. I don't know if it was because I just wasn't hungry or I just, you know, didn't know what I was, what I wanted to eat. So Nicole, can you explain to us what this drug is doing to your body to make you not hungry? So the way that

the majority of these medications work, they're called GLP-1 agonists. That's just a fancy term for a hormone in your body that has a receptor and this works on that receptor. So first and foremost, it causes insulin to be released. And that's why diabetics take it because it helps to decrease blood sugar. But also it works with the way that your GI system, your stomach and your intestines, and it kind of slows the transit time. So if you think about it, they usually do waves about every 90 minutes. Well, this really slows them down. And so you have this sense of fullness because things are kind of just sitting around for a long time. So your brain isn't getting that signal that you're hungry anymore because your body feels full. So what Erin's describing is I'm not really in the

mood for it. Well, her body doesn't think she's hungry. So, and Erin mentioned this, a lot of us, and maybe especially during the holiday season, there's a lot of mindless snacking. We're not hungry, but it's like, I got some cookies and I've got some chips and I'm like, we're a snacking culture. You're not interested in snacking either? Or is it just like, I'm not interested in food? Or is it, no, I'm not hungry, but I'm also motivated as well. Is it motivation and a lack of hunger or is it just, I don't have an interest in any kind of food right now and I almost have to force myself to eat. There were some days. So if I took the shot on a Wednesday, by Friday, it really kicked in. So then Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, sometimes I had to force myself to eat something. I just feel like it

took away that craving. Like if I saw something that normally I would like or pick at, I just didn't. So one of the concerns that I have with people, especially being on this medication for long-term, even though it is designed for long-term use, is that some people really just aren't eating. They're not actually getting the nutrients that they need. So that's why you have some people who are reporting hair loss, muscle loss, and some other negative side effects, because all of a sudden their body is really in a state of starvation. It doesn't feel like it's starving, but it's not getting the nutrients and the calories and the protein and the other things that it survives on every single day.

So that is a concern. So without that, you know, that dedicated, you know, I have to make sure that I am getting this many calories and this many nutrients every single day. You could have some of those consequences. Unfortunately, though, if your GI system isn't moving along and you decide to eat, even if it is a healthy snack, you could actually feel sick. The good news is healthy stuff tends to make people feel less sick when they're on these medications. Like the fatty, greasy carbohydrates actually cause more symptoms of nausea and some of the other abdominal pains. And the healthy stuff like lean proteins and greens cause less of it, it still can. Are doctors recommending that people take like a multivitamin with this? Cause obviously they're not, or some sort of supplements since they're not getting the

right nutrition. Well, there's no formal recommendation of that. Um, did your, the person prescribing you? No, they didn't. They did recommend. That seems odd to me. That seems odd to me because if you're not eating as much, so I have so many questions. My, my mind is exploding with questions. You have some one, two shots. So this is interesting because over the last, I mean, since, since I would pay attention, it seems like 40 years, there's been a whole bunch of, um, whether they're drugs or diets or shakes or, you know, buy, you know, get the male meals that will help us all lose weight. And it seems like none of them really worked. It seems like this is one of the first times there's been a drug that you can take and people are having wild success with weight loss. And first, tell me if I'm wrong on that,

Dr. Nicole, but then number two, are there long-term complications? It seems great if Erin can do this for eight months, hit her weight loss goal, and then gradually get off. But are there some challenges as someone goes through that process of actually getting off the drug you mentioned is supposed to be almost a lifetime use, but if you've used it for weight loss, can you get off it without long-term complications? Yeah. And the company is still out there saying, no, no, no, this is a lifetime drug, which always gets me nervous, Nicole, because big pharma loves lifetime customers. And so that makes me nervous. And then I want to hear your answer to that. And I want to tell you both the story that I heard, and I want to get your reactions to it

about somebody who was on it. Go ahead. So, Sean, I'm going to push back a little bit about what you said. You said that all of these fads, these trends over the last couple of decades haven't really had effects. Well, that's not entirely true. If you think about the Atkins diet, the salt diet and all these other, you know, trend diets, people. But you're talking about you're talking about medications or are you talking about diet actually i know atkins does work right yeah so any of any fads trends people can lose weight but the overwhelming majority of people would gain it right back because you know something that i wrote about all throughout make america healthy again and i have talked about just about every time I'm on TV is, you know, you have to do everything in moderation.

Any form of extremes, it's going to be hard to maintain long term. And really, what is the quality of life when you're doing something extreme? So people would do extreme diets for a while and then they're like, OK, well, that's enough of that and kind of go back and then they gain weight. Well, with these medications, obviously the effects are more drastic because there's a medication helping. Don't forget fen-phen. We had that back in the day and people really lost a lot of weight. They also, you know, died and had severe heart disease from it. We later found out, I mean, but it's not shocking if you know how those stimulants work. But with these medications, the weight loss is drastic. The problem is,

when people go off these medications, upward of over 50% of people gain at least two thirds of the weight back within the next couple of years. And that number is just about 90% of people gain some of that weight back. And now why is that? Well, there's many factors, but the majority of the reasons are because they're not calorie restricting like they are when they're on the medication. I mean, these patients who are on these medications, they are severely calorie restricting themselves. I mean, obviously, if you were to calorie restrict yourself voluntarily or involuntarily, say you were in prison somewhere and they starved you, you're going to lose weight.

When you start eating again, you will gain your weight back. So when you start, stop these injections, your body all of a sudden is like, hey, by the way, I'm hungry again. I could use some food. You're going to eat unless you have severe self-control to not eat. And that's one of the big problems is when you have instant gratification, like you have with these injections where the weight just starts coming off and it doesn't necessarily take a lot of will to stop eating, making sure you're exercising, then you haven't actually changed your life. So my recommendation is for any people going on this medication, it has to be in parallel with drastic lifestyle changes, making sure you're working with a nutritionist like Erin is, making sure you're having healthy eating,

lowering your calories intentionally, not because the medication tells your brain to, and making sure that you have a great exercise regimen that's maintainable once you go off. We'll have more of this conversation after this. Breaking news happens anywhere, anytime. Police have warned the protesters repeatedly, get back. CBC News brings the story to you as it happens. Hundreds of wildfires are burning. Be the

first to know what's going on and what that means for you and for Canadians. This situation has changed very quickly. Helping make sense of the world when it matters most. Stay in the know. CBC News. I do know like when I've gotten sick, right, and I can't eat because maybe I have the flu and I dropped some weight because I had the flu. I'm like, the flu wasn't so bad. And then, but I feel like my stomach got smaller. Like, like I, like, I'm just, when I come off from eating from, from the flu, I'm just not as hungry anymore. So Erin, I guess that's my question to you. It is, I know Nicole says you're working with a nutritionist. You say you want to wean yourself off within a month, but like,

how nervous are you that, you know, your old habits are going to come back? That maybe you won't eat a lot for the first month because your stomach has kind of had that shrunken feeling where like you're used to eating less. But that, you know, over time it's going to come back that you can actually maintain what you've put your body through by taking Ozempic? Well, that is what I'm nervous about. And that's probably why I am on it longer than I had intended to be on it. But I'm trying to count my calories right now and be very conscious of what I'm eating where I wasn't doing that in the beginning. But now that I know that I'm going to come off of it, I'm just trying to be very aware of what I'm eating. How much weight have you lost so far?

I lost like 38 pounds. And you did that in six months? I probably stopped losing about a few weeks ago and have been maintaining. So it's maybe six or seven months where I lost that much. I would, it's maybe six or seven months where I lost that much. You know, Erin, I can tell you, when I left Congress, I probably lost 30 pounds after I left Congress. You know, as big as I was, and I'm saying I'm taller than you are. Because there's a lot of dinners and receptions, and you just start mindlessly eating. And it's hard to change your diet.

I can say that from personal experience. But once you start to lose weight, it's really gratifying when you start to take weight off and it makes you more motivated to continue on. And I have to imagine, and this is maybe to you too, Nicole, when Aaron loses weight, and it's great, I'm fitting into clothes that I probably haven't worn in some time, and I feel great about the way I look, that motivation that someone gets from the weight loss with the use of Ozempic, coupled with the knowledge that, hey, listen, if you don't change what you're doing, how you're living, how you're eating, how you're exercising,

it's not going to last. But if you can pair those two things together, it seems like what you're saying, Dr. Nicole, is it can actually work for a lot of people to lose the weight, get motivated, and then change the way they eat. Because another thing, too, is if you change the way you eat and you don't lose weight, that's really discouraging. You go back to your old ways. It's like, I'm doing these things and I'm not losing the weight.

You know, screw it. I might as well eat chips and brownies. Or I do anyway, chips and brownies. Well, I guess I go ahead. Go ahead, Nicole. No, no, you go ahead. My point is, so first of all, in the hospital, kind of like Congress, let me tell you, there are snacks everywhere. And they all know that about 2, 3 p.m. in the afternoon, I come opening all the drawers looking, okay, who has chocolate? Who has this? It is hard. It is certainly hard to change those behaviors if you don't remove yourself from that physical situation, i.e. Sean leaving Congress for that. Erin's not leaving anytime soon. So that's going to be difficult for her. But another

motivation is that she was on the precipice of having high blood pressure and diabetes. And heart disease is the number one killer in women. And so high blood pressure and diabetes are major risk factors for cardiovascular disease and death, specifically in women. So yes, decreasing rate is wonderful from a cosmetic stance. We love the way we feel and we fit into our clothes, but it also makes you feel physically and mentally better knowing that you've gotten yourself into a healthier place. Okay. So I'm going to give you, so first of all, Erin, what I'm going to say is like, first of all, I'm happy for you. You seem happy. You seem like, you know, you're, you're, you're working with, with your doctor. You get good advice from Dr. Sapphire, no judgment, but I'm just going to tell you how I feel about this. Cause I think there's a lot of

our listeners who might feel the same way. And that is, um, well actually maybe telling you this story, my, my, the one I was referring to before. So I have a friend, she's on it. She's I'll be honest. She's never looked better. Um, she looks amazing and she's telling me, you know, how it's going, that she's going to the gym. She feels like she's finally, you know, getting results. No matter how many times she went to the gym before, she couldn't lose weight. Now she's losing weight. She feels like she's feels better working out.

She's she's happy. At the same time, somebody overhears our conversation who says, oh, no, I was on Ozempic and I got stomach paralysis from that. I want you to tell me what that is later. Exactly. Nicole, I got stomach paralysis. I had to get off of it. I've gained more weight than I had. I feel like I'm hungry all the time in a way that I wasn't before like I want to snack more than I did before I was on ozempic and it's been terrible for me and I've lost so much muscle weight so that was her and there was a little bit of a well it's working for me and then the conversation kind of ended so

obviously two different experiences maybe one person was on it longer than the other. I want to talk about that story, what you make of that for both of you, but also we'll talk about something else on the other end of that. Go ahead. First of all, I want to say, you know, you keep referring to it as Ozempic. Really, Ozempic is the medication for diabetics. It is a lower dose of semi-glutide. The higher dose of glutide that people are using for weight loss is also is actually called Wigovi. So we go, okay. But so semi-glutide, because there are a whole bunch of different ones. So I just want to make that clear. I know the people you're referring to, one hasn't been on the one who's very happy with it right now hasn't been on it very long. But the reality is when women our age start trying to lose weight, it can be really hard.

Yes. To get to that perimenopausal, you know, anywhere from 45 to 55, your hormones really start playing a role and make it difficult because our metabolism goes down and our body's going through a lot of changes. And we actually start depositing fat in areas that we have never deposited fat before. And it doesn't matter how much you work out and sometimes even your diet changes, it's very hard to get rid of those pockets of fat. And for women, especially, Sean, no offense, but we look at men, they go run on the treadmill for five minutes and they lost five pounds. Like it's obnoxious.

But for a woman, it's very different because of our hormones and the way that our bodies function. So when women go on this medication and truly the pounds just begin to shed, I mean, it is a feeling like no other. I mean, they feel really good about themselves, but just like, I have some, we have some severe concerns about these medications. Well, yeah. And I want to talk about that because also just on another level, let's set aside Aaron's situation for a second and just talk about what you just said. So as women get to be between 45 and 55, I'm in that group. Um, their bodies change. They, their hormone levels change. they start putting weight on in different areas. I'm, Erin, Nicole will tell you, I'm a naturalist. Like when my kids say they're

not feeling well, I'm like, drink water. You know, I just am so like, I just don't trust anything pharmaceutical unless it's like an emergency. So I'm a little bit on the extreme on that side. So I'm going to lay that out right now. But part of me is a little bit concerned, even on a, and I want to get to the medical concerns you have about the longevity and what stomach paralysis is and are people eating going to gain more afterwards anyway, but just what about just this whole natural cycle of life? Like I'm not supposed to have the body of a 22 year old at, you know, 52 that I am right now. So why are we allowing pharma and culture and all this stuff to impact us and create

this new woman in her 50s who has the body of a 30-year-old when we're not meant to be that way. And we have to actually put chemicals and pharmaceuticals into our body to achieve something that we're not meant to be at this age because of what's happening naturally to our cycle of life. And then also, you know, if we're eating right and we're trying our best and we're eating right and we're exercising, then whatever that is has got to be, in my mind, unless you're morbidly obese, has got to be better than putting this stuff in your body.

I mean, that's just kind of how I feel about it. And again, no offense to you at all, Erin. I don't mean that at all. I actually want Erin to respond to that, but I just want to point out though, right now we're just talking about weight loss, but I mean, you say, how do we let, allowing this culture to, you know, take control of us and influence us. But I mean, this is not something that's new. I mean, think about the fact that we get our nails done, we dye our hair, Botox. I mean, people are doing fillers and plastic surgeries and all these other things. And because maybe we're not trying to look like we're 25, but we, you know, certainly feel better.

Slow the clock. Right. And so there's obviously ends of the extremes there. And so, you know, you can dye your hair all you want, you can get as much Botox all you want. But if you're not fitting into your clothes, and if you know, you really are working out, you're doing everything you can to try and lose a little bit of weight, you're not able to, sometimes all that other stuff isn't enough. And you just want to feel a little bit better. What is your thought on it? I mean, I, I feel like it is, you know, an easy way out. I mean, I, I, I really, dang it. I love it. People, you know, happy with it. I never lost as much, much weight from dieting when I have dieted, I lost weight, put it back on um but yeah this is kind of very it's

i mean but god bless pharma it's expensive i don't pay a dollar for it it goes through your insurance that's interesting interesting billing going on there but it's usually over a thousand dollars a month for many people wow now is that is can i say are Now, is your insurance covering it because you were in that pre-diabetic phase? Because she was obese. Oh, because the BMI says she's obese. Got it. To qualify for insurance, you have to be obese and you have to have at least one medical comorbidity related to your weight. So pre-diabetic, blood pressure, and obesity. Okay. So Rachel had mentioned stomach paralysis, I think. Yeah. What is that? What is that? But also, are there side effects? Or if Erin takes this and says, listen, I'm going

to do this for eight months, I'm weaning myself off. Are there really limited amounts of medical side effects or are there actual side effects to taking the drug, getting the weight loss? And yes, we can deal with how you change your diet. And are you more hungry once you're off the drug? That's a different issue. But are there long-term effects from taking this drug in the short term? Because I've also heard of like that there's um um there's there now ozempic and wago we are under investigation by the way for also suicidal ideation i know you you said hair loss but i can understand that that could be from lack of

nutrients but these other some of these other side effects yeah well first aaron have you had any side effects negative side effects no i mean there were days where I was nauseous and didn't feel well, but nothing other than that. So nausea is the most common reported side effect. About 80% to 90% of people do report some level of nausea. The more severe side effects are less common, but still pretty common. And one of them is what you're mentioning, that stomach paralysis. That's essentially when I did this motion, the waves of your GI system, this is normal.

It does that cycle about every 90 minutes. Well, this medication kind of causes it to stop. And if you think about it, your whole GI system essentially goes throughout your entire body and it expands and it contracts, kind of like a balloon. Well, it has this normal motion to keep things moving along. When it stops it, things just kind of get stuck all the way. And that can actually, on the more severe end of it, can cause a stomach or an intestinal blockage,

which can be a medical emergency. For other people, it just moves very, very slowly. And that can cause severe abdominal pain and bloating, even vomiting, just an overall feeling of unwell. And I mean, that can be very uncomfortable. And a lot of people will stop the medication because of that severe feeling of fullness. Kind of just like your most extreme case of constipation. But think of that times 10. And that's how you feel. And it's not really a good feeling.

You know, some of the most, you know, the biggest concerns is kind of what I, well, it's not the biggest concerns. But some of the more common concerns are what I've already mentioned, which are secondary to the lack of absorbing nutrients. So because you're not eating as much. So everything we just talked about, really that muscle wasting. Yeah, your fat's dripping off. Your muscles are not eating as much. So everything we just talked about, really that muscle wasting. Yeah, your fat's dripping off. Yeah, muscles are dripping off as well. So you can kind of look at people and if they're not working out in parallel and really keeping that muscle tone, you can kind of see that they're probably on it because their muscles are now dripping as well. Which you have to work out extra. Do you have to work out extra because you're losing so much muscle fat? Because of all that work out extra. But Sean, when you were mentioning shakes, when to work out extra because you're losing so much muscle fat? Well, not that you have to work out extra, but, Sean, you were mentioning shakes.

When you work out, you have to make sure you're having enough protein to be put in. Those are the building blocks for your muscles. So if you're working out but you're not taking in protein, you have no building blocks to make your muscle. Some other things that have been reported in rodent studies, rodent studies are an increased risk of thyroid cancer. It's been in rodent studies. You know, we don't really have reported. That's important. That's significant.

So it is. And but Sean's like, well, what are the long-term effects? I don't know. We don't have any long-term data. This is brand new. And you have to remember, 70 years ago, you had doctors saying to people, hey, you should smoke these cigarettes. They help open up the lungs and it'll help you breathe better so no do i think that it does help you eat less that's also a yeah nicotine does too the thing is do i think that these semi-glutide

these glp and agonists are going to be the equivalent of cigarettes absolutely not do i think that there are going to be some long-term consequences that we don't really know about? We can kind of guess what they're going to be, but we won't have that data to really point to that until, you know, I would say five to 10 years, unfortunately. Rachel, you mentioned there was an association with increased suicide ideations with these medications. The FDA recently just came out, I think this week or last week, showing that when they actually looked at the cases, there was no association, which, you know, I'll be honest, I was thinking about it a little bit physically from a physiological standpoint. I don't really think that the injection itself, I don't know how that would be causing more

suicide ideations. Like when you talk about SSRIs and some of those other medications that people give out like candy, I can absolutely see how that can cause increased suicidal thoughts. But these medications, I can't put those pieces together, but think about it. If you're someone who's trying to lose weight, but now you've gotten to a state of starvation, you don't have the nutrients, maybe some of all of that is affecting your body and affecting your emotions. It's maybe you're focusing more on your outward appearance and you're not focusing on your inward stuff. You know, there's a compilation of things. So quickly, if someone, so I'm clear on this, if someone ends up experiencing stomach paralysis when they're on the drug, when they get off the drug, does that paralysis last,

or do they go back to normal function, or there are long-term implications? If you slow it down, does it pop back when you're not on the drug, or does that last for some time? So, the only, like, the real data we have looking at, you know, prolonged colonic paralysis are people who are on long-term opioids because opioids do similar things. If you recall Matthew Perry prior to his death, he actually had to have a hemicolectomy, some of his colon removed, most likely because of a very similar reason was he had long-term paralysis of it. So in the short term, you know, when you go undergo anesthesia or you have So in the short term, you know, when you go undergo anesthesia or you have pain medications following a surgery, you find yourself very

backed up or feeling slow, constipated for a few days. And, you know, it takes a couple of weeks, but you get back to normal. And I would say for most people who are on this medication, they're probably going to get back to normal. But I do anticipate that we will see some people that maybe it has more of a profound longer lasting you know problem and you know will they have to have gi surgery in the future i don't know i mean we again we don't have the data one of my biggest concerns is that if you're slowing down the gi system so much then that means that you know our discarded food products are sitting in our GI system even longer. And one of the risk factors for colon cancer are, you know, toxin exposure to our colon. So are we increasing our toxin exposure to our colon by having long-term, you know, decreased peristalsis in the

colon? Again, this is not something that I can tell you is going to happen today, but in 10 years, I'll let you know. So Erin, I've always been a little distrustful of pharma. A little? And the FDA. I know I'm talking to people, you know, who work in the medical field. Nicole knows how I feel. So I've always been, you know, fairly distrustful. And then I came out of COVID and I really don't trust them at all. So like, always been, you know, fairly distrustful. And then I came out of COVID and I really don't trust them at all. So like, for example, you were saying, well, the FDA said there's no suicidal ideation. And I, I, I totally understand you're, you're trying to make the connection and it's not making sense. So, okay, maybe. But we do have, it appears like they've lowered the standard to receive this drug. It used to be only for

diabetics. Now they've said, oh, if your BMI is a certain level, if you've had this potential for getting high blood pressure or... Well, no, hold on. I got to stop you for a second. So again, Ozempic is the lower dose and that's only for diabetics. During the course of treating diabetics, they were finding that people were losing weight. So then they did studies about a higher dose in obese people. And so they reformulated, they made a brand new medication. It's the same medication as Ozempic, but it's a higher dose. And this is specifically designed for people who are overweight. Correct.

But it was originally designed for people who are morbidly obese. And while Erin technically falls into that, visually, we know she was never really obese. was never really obese. And so the system and the insurance system and the FDA, they're all making it, you know, so that people who are overweight and unhappy with being overweight can access this drug, sometimes even for free. So, Erin, when you went to get this, when you were considering this as an option, first of all, did you go in and say, I want to get on Wagovi? Or did they say, here's an option for you? Also, when they told you, yeah, you're a candidate for Wagovi, did they tell you, FYI, there were some studies on rats and they got thyroid cancer? I'm just saying. I want to know what they do. I don't want that doctor necessarily. I want to know what happens in this meeting. So I went to a doctor, um, at my previous job. They,

it was like a bariatric center. So they're weight loss doctors and they were, they were doing this program and it was, I paid a fee. It was for four months. Um, the medication. It still went through insurance. They provided a nutritionist and I had to have blood work. I had to get my thyroid checked, amongst other things. And then once he, and then I had to go back to the appointment after my blood work was done. And then he said, you know, okay, you're a candidate for it. And then they put it in and I was able to start the medication. I've asked him, you know, is it okay if I stay on it? And he will be very honest with me and tell me that it's my decision. He cannot tell me if there are any long-term effects. They just don't know. And that, you know, it's, it's my decision. He's very clear that if I did not make,

you know, changes in my lifestyle, that I most likely will gain the weight back if I don't continue to monitor what I eat and exercise when I go off of it. And did they explain like, hey, we don't know what these long-term effects are? I know he said like, this is up to you, but did he give you any of that kind of information? No. that kind of information. No. So Erin, we talked about, so you were on, you just started to wean off. You've expanded from one week to 10 days between doses. What's the trajectory now for how you wean off and when do you anticipate actually being off? So I was on the highest dose and then I dropped down to the one lower than that. Before when you were talking about somebody that stopped it and gained the weight back,

I noticed right away when I started that lower dose, it was like I was in my head, you know, like, am I hungry? Do I feel hungry? Is this dose working? You know, so it is. I feel like I have to Do I feel hungry? Is this dose working? You know, so it is, I feel like I have to get away from that and just watch what I eat. Um, I plan on being on the dose 1.7 for, um, one more month. And then I was going to either, um, go down to one or just, or stop it. I haven't, I haven't decided yet. I have to go every month to the doctor and weigh in and see him. Um, and then, you know, I would, you know, after this month, I'll figure out. Do they keep, does your doctor keep doing blood work on you? Do you get blood work every quarter, every couple of months or no, it's just one set of blood work and that was it?

So I am having blood work later this month, but I have not had blood work since I started. Okay. So that's at the seven month. Is that right? The seventh month, eight months, eight months, eight months. And so how often do you go to the gym or work out three to four times a week? And you've been really consistent with that. I have, I kind of slapped off a little bit, um, between Thanksgiving and Christmas, but I've been bad. I hear you like the rest of us. It's hard to get back going. And you feel like you're gonna, like, you feel like you've been consistent for seven, you know, fairly consistent for seven months. You think you can continue this? Yeah, that's, that's the plan. I really hope to.

And can I ask you what you're doing for your workouts? Sure. I try to do 10,000 steps a day, which always requires me to get on the treadmill. And then I use the Peloton app and do a lot of their strength classes and the workouts. So do I, Erin. I try to do that, too. I do the bike, and then I try and do some strength through the Peloton app as well. I hate doing weights. That's why I think if I ever went on that, it would be really tough

for me because I think I would waste away because I just hate doing weights. Well, that's one of the things too. If you work out a lot and you're not eating, I mean, you then put yourself at risk for passing out and, you know, that's not very healthy either. The way that I see this medication being used, I think, so when you hear what the FDA and what the big pharma says about taking it, they're like, you're on it for life because if you get off of it, you're going to gain all your weight back. And that's probably, there's some truth to that. But if people actually start the medication, they do a rigorous lifestyle

change as well, then you lose the way you get to your goal weight and you do exactly what Aaron is doing, you taper off. And then you try to maintain as long as you can. If you see the weight ticking back up, then maybe you go on a low dose again, just for another short period of time to really help kickstart your exercise regimen and lose that weight again. And you don't want to necessarily do this with your weight cycles, so that lifestyle modification is extremely important. But I do think that this, as of right now, is a good tool for people to try and lose weight.

I'm just very hesitant about the long-term consequences of staying on it. And it's interesting because, obviously, this is really beneficial. We've heard Erin's story and have heard so many stories like it where people are able to truly lose weight. And when we started, Nicole, you were talking about all the risk factors that someone has if they have too much weight on. And so it's probably a weighing and balancing of what is, what's the best option for me? You can say that the best is just to eat less and work out. Well, if people are having a hard time doing that, do you want the risk of heart disease and other risk factors when you're overweight or take the risk factor of, you know, taking this drug and losing the weight? And it's probably everyone has to do that balance themselves,

but there are risks on both sides, it seems like. Can I answer, go ahead, either of you answer that, and then I want to ask one more thing here. I was just going to say, you know, when someone comes to me and says, you know, I'm overweight, I've been doing everything I can to try and lose 10 to 15 pounds, it's not helping, I'm pre-diabetic, I have high blood pressure, should I go on it? Especially if you're a perimenopausal woman and you're really struggling to lose your weight, try it, try it for a short while, get that kickstart you need, and then try to maintain it. But I certainly wouldn't be recommending people to be on it. I have to tell you, I, I, I'm happy for you, Erin. I really hope it works out. I am so wary of it. And I'm just worried that what, And I'm just worried that what it what could be causing us to lose or to gain weight is not that necessary that we're overeating.

It's and it's not even it's it's what's in our food. It's the GMOs. It's the it's and I feel like the processed foods. It's not just processed foods. The processed foods that we all eat. when I'm back home and I came back and I lost weight. There's something in our food. There's something in the way we're like mass farming, industrial farming. We've gotten so far away from chemical farming. And so my fear with Wigovia and all of this stuff is that it's masking the root of the problem. And, and so, and then I'm also worried about the long-term effects. Um, so yeah, I mean, I, I hear you when you go, well, just try it. And I'm like, I don't know. Um, but I, I, no judgment to you at all, uh, Aaron and, and, or to you, Nicole, for your, your view on this. I just, you know, we're all different. I just fundamentally, um,

I think, well, first of all, Rachel, you know, I agree with you. I think the food that is produced in the United States overwhelmingly is toxic and poisonous. Yes. Why we have such high incidence of cancer, I think, is a lot because of what we put. Yes. Well, what we put onto our body, lotions and everything else. That is a much bigger problem. And unless you can, I mean, again, in Make America Healthy Again, I talk about the fact that the patients that we have who are on state-assisted health insurance programs, you know, they use, and other government programs, they use their food stamps and they

cover all of the processed foods. Rarely can they go out and get very healthy, nutritious meals on their food stamp, food stamps. And so that is just this ugly cycle, which perpetuates here in the United States. So. Yeah, I mean, and that's a much bigger problem. By the way, if you're interested in that topic that Nicole was just talking about, just this week, we dropped a podcast. So check it out. It's with Cali Means. And we talk about what's poisoning America through its food and our food source and how it's, it's, how damaged it is and how people want to do, you know, these globalists want to do even more to control our food sources and make them worse. And frankly, this cycle that we have of,

you know, bad food, ultra processed food, chemicals in our food, you know, industrial farming and and and and all of that. And then then here's big pharma to the rescue. We know that Ozempic has been extremely lucrative for the companies. And so it's just something to work. I'm just so grateful, Aaron, that you're so honest about talking about it. I know I know people on it. I know even more people thinking about getting about it. I know, I know people on it. I know even more people thinking about getting on it. And I think just the more information that's out there, you know, what your experiences, what your side effects were, what your hopes are. I hope, I hope maybe in a few months after you get off, we could come back and talk about what the whole experience was

with wean off and then off. Is it possible to wean off of it and maintain the weight you like? I think you can do it, Erin. I have faith. Thank you. I'm going to make it happen. I'll have to come back in a few months. We'd love it. That's right.

We'd love it. We'll see how it's gone. And listen, to both of you, thank you for joining us. And Erin, that you would share your story with us. Yeah, we're really grateful. I think it's a great service because a lot of people are thinking about it. As Rachel said, considering it and Dr. Nicole, for you to kind of lay in your experience and what the studies say about,

and again, there's not a lot of long-term studies, but how it can work, if you're going to use it, how you should use it and how you have to change your diet in the process to make sure when you get off, you can maintain the weight loss and still be healthy. So to the both of you, thank you for joining us at the kitchen table. We are very grateful. Thank you, Aaron. Thank you, Nicole. We'll be right back after this. Welcome to the A World Business. Billy Bob Thornton, Demi Moore, and Jon Hamm star in a new Paramount Plus original series.

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Go! You just put a giant bullseye on this place. We rolled the dice one last time. Landman, new series now streaming exclusively on Paramount+. I think it was a fascinating conversation and I appreciate the honesty and we hear a lot about it. We've never been on it, but to have someone talk about the weight loss and the weaning off and the knowledge that she has, Erin has about saying, you know what, I know that I have to change my

lifestyle now so I can be successful when I want to wean myself off. It'd be really easy to say, I'm going to be on this for a lifetime, but that has to be really unhealthy. You slow your system down. I can't imagine what this would do to your body if you were on it for a lifetime. And I'm glad that she's committed to weaning herself off. She's obviously, she's got the right mindset. The question is, is she going to face what that other lady told me she faced? This other woman told me that she was even more hungry than she was before. I was a little concerned that the program that she was on wasn't measuring her blood work, her thyroid, and all these other

markers on a monthly basis. Like every three months, but on a more regular basis. I thought if it was me, I would want that. But you know me, I mean, Sean, I just think, I think, and again, it's not to discredit her because I understand how that must, how frustrating that must be, especially because I believe that there are a lot of people who are restricting some of their calories. They're working out. They can't lose weight. And I think it's the food. And I think the pharma is masking the root of the problem. I really believe that. And I think, you know, Hollywood has really, you know, done a lot to push this thing.

I mean, you see the red, we just had the Golden Globes the other day. I didn't watch it. Well, I saw the pictures of the, and everyone, you know, everyone's a little skinnier this year. And I think we know why. And so that becomes that new standard. And again, I look at just what we're supposed to be as this cycle. I'm going to hit that back again because women, our bodies are so complicated and complex because we were designed to have children. And so we have these hormones running through us.

And then she's right. Nicole's right. You hit this age where you see these hormones drop. And so there's, yeah, I get it. We all are doing beauty treatments and we're all trying to look our best. We all are doing beauty treatments and we're all trying to look our best. But of weight gain that we're supposed to. I mean, if you're blowing up, okay, I get it. But I'm sorry, I'm not going to look like I'm 29 anymore. I don't want to look like I'm 29. Oh, yeah, sure.

So this must have been a little over a year ago. And I don't get blood work since I left Congress. It's been like three or four years. I turned 50. You're supposed to go to the doctor. So I did. And I got blood work done and I came back. And I was in just a few spaces outside the norm of where I should have been.

And it freaked me out. And I immediately, that day, I cut out all caffeine, which is crazy because I love caffeine, all alcohol. And I started eating all caffeine, which is crazy because I love caffeine, all alcohol. And I started eating all this organic fruit, vegetables, grains. And it was interesting. I wasn't ever hungry, but I lost even more weight when I started eating just really well, cutting out all the toxins, doing the best I could to get rid of all the processed, even more of the processed foods, all of the caffeine, all of the alcohol. And literally, I was dropping weight really fast. And it goes to your point that what we put in matters. And so it's smart that she's saying,

I'm going to count my calories, but the kind of calories that you put in truly matter. And if you changed, maybe we didn't talk about this, but if she's changing also how she's eating, what she's putting in her body, as well as the calories, I think she'll feel more, more, more satisfied and lose weight at the same time. Because again, you're, you fill yourself up with these toxic foods that continue to make you more and more hungry, as opposed to whole good foods that satisfy you and you end up losing weight. So I just don't trust pharma, Sean. And again, when they went to me, the red flags, I always listen to my, you know, my gut, the older I get, the more I listen to my gut, all my gut feelings end up being, being right. And, and that's how I felt when, when they were telling me I should take the COVID, uh, the COVID-19 vaccine. I was like, just even the push of it, all of it, and then no long-term studies on it.

I was like, nope, not doing this. And the silencing of those who were opposed to what they were doing all sent red flags out. All my red flags went up. That same feeling of red flags went up for me when I was hearing just in the last couple of weeks, I was hearing more reports from like, I guess it was from the pharmaceutical companies. I don't think it was from the FDA, but getting the report like, no, no, this is for life. And I'm like, anytime big pharma wants me on something for life, I know something's up. Um, and so I, I was my, my, my, my, my guard went up and again, I am wishing nothing but the best for Erin.

And she seems like such a sweet lady. And I want her to reach her goals. And I don't wish anything bad on her. I want only positive for her. But my guards are going up. And I think that we learned a lot about pharmaceutical companies and the government and the insurance companies during COVID. And I'm sorry, I just have become hyper skeptical about everything. And I'm just going to... I agree with that. But with the COVID-19 shots, they're like, this is a vaccine. Well,

it wasn't a vaccine because all the people who took the shots, they all got COVID again. Right. So then they said, get a booster. And they said, your symptoms will be less. But there was no studies to say your symptoms would be less, right? So the benefit- And then when Omicron came, Sean, everybody who had gotten the vaccine was the one who was getting COVID. Did you get COVID from Omicron? No, but I had natural immunity because I got COVID. And by the way, I can't just remember, remind you, when we got COVID, when we got COVID, it was very early on and we posted on Facebook, here's our COVID experience. And the comments I got was like, I had said, I want to talk to you about me and Sean's STD.

Like, that's how people treat us. He's like, we were treated like you were a leper, like you were a terrible person for getting a virus that in the end was no less than getting a flu or cold. And I'm sorry, the whole thing was felt like such a psyop. And those were the people that were loving everything that came from China. But when we had the China virus, they hated us for it. So that's not my point. My point was there wasn't a benefit from, in my opinion, of getting the COVID vaccine shot. There is a benefit that people are experiencing. Now, there's complications, no doubt, but we have- She's happy. You can tell she's happy with the

results. As you've said, you know a number of people who are incredibly happy with their results of the weight loss on Wegovia or Ozempic. And so there's a, there's a, there's a stark difference. One actually had a benefit. Um, the other one did not. And both of them may have long-term complications. Well, that's what I was going to say. There's any time you put something in your body for which there have been no long-term studies. I mean, I remember, I mean, that's, that's a, that's a massive risk. And then I go, again, culturally, what are we telling women that being skinny, losing weight and being this, whatever this ideal of thinness is that we have in our culture is more important than potentially, you know, hitting that goal is more important than or overrides the possibility of having a long-term symptom like thyroid cancer. That's a big deal. So I worry about the paralyzed stomach.

Or paralyzed stomach. So I'm worried about the cultural message. I don't trust pharma, but I'm also worried about, and I don't trust our FDA to do what's right by us because they've already proven they don't. They already proven they're in bed with pharma. And, and, and that's, that's just done. I mean, you're never going to convince me otherwise after what I saw over COVID. But in addition, I'm worried about the cultural message of what's worth dying over. What's worth taking something for which you don't know what the long-term effects are?

I share your concerns. I mean, if I have cancer, Sean, and the right to try stuff that Senator Ron Johnson, I get that. I'm going to die of cancer. I have stage four cancer. I'm going to take this drug that I don't know what it's going to do. But for this, I just don't know if it's worth it. Actually, I do know. For me, it's not worth it. Listening to Dr. Nicole, I think that if you are at risk of heart disease, if you have high blood pressure, if you're pre-diabetic or you're diabetic, again, these are trade-offs. This might actually work and lower those potential outcomes that are deathly for the unknown of what's going to happen with,

is it Wachowi or Ozempic? You don't know, and you might be able to kickstart yourself into a healthy lifestyle. I share your concerns, but the flip side, if you're morbidly obese, this could be beneficial for you. I think one of the things that we're not talking about is people who are not who don't have those necessarily risk factors, and they just want to be a little thinner. And this goes to the point, they start taking this drug, and I want to lose 20 pounds because I want to be really thin and svelte and have people think I'm really hot. Well, the risk factor for that, taking this drug, doesn't make any sense. And I think a

lot of it's happening with people who don't have, they're not obese, they're not, they don't have, you know, a risk for heart disease right now, or they're not pre-diabetic and they're taking the drug. And that's the problem when pharma pushes this and you have doctors who will prescribe it at a time and for people who don't need it. You know, one of the things that I experienced when we were going through COVID, and I have a lot of friends who are in the medical community, not just Nicole, I have tons of friends who are nurses and doctors, or they're people who are married to doctors, know a lot of people like that. And it just seemed to me like people in the medical profession were a lot more open-minded about the vaccine.

Or even I notice friends of mine who are nurses are a lot quicker to give Tylenol to their kids than say I am. And it was a pill for everything. Right. It seems to me like people in the medical community, because they're around it all the time. It kind of makes sense. It's part of their toolkit, right? And so it's just less, it's, it's, it's less, I don't know if the word is scary to them. It's just, it's just so natural to them. And so I, again, you know, you know me, you know, my sister, you know, my mom, I come from sort of this old school, like, again, my sister usually listens to our podcast, so she's probably laughing and she's hearing this, but it's true. Our kids even make fun of us. We're like, what? Your leg hurts? You know, drink some water. You know, like we really are, or you're not, you're feeling sad,

go for a run, you know? And in America, it's like, you're feeling sad, here's a pill. And I don't know if it's because my mom's an immigrant, you know, to this country. And so, you know, she never, you know, she has a, a, a, a tea, you know, Oh, you're, you're, you're a little anxious. She, you know, it's like, have this herbal tea, you know, that'll help you or, or you can't sleep, have a little chamomile, you know? So it's like, there's a mind, there's a certain way of viewing it. And again, I'm not opposed to Western medicine. I was in a severe car accident where I had to save my life and my leg, and I had to take medications for that. I had nine children, and my favorite births are those for which I had an epidural.

And I have no regrets about that. She loves pharma for epidurals. I love it. If all pharma, their only purpose is epidurals. So I have no problems. I'm not opposed to certain things. I'm not a supernaturalist. I did give birth naturally, but it was by accident because the baby came so fast and I flip and hated it.

It was someone's fault for the two natural births that she had. And guess whose fault it was. Those were absolutely your fault. They're absolutely your fault. I'm fairly blamed. No. First of all, the entire pregnancies were your fault. That's true.

The pregnancies were your fault. And those two natural births were your fault. That pregnancies were your fault. And those two natural births were your fault. That's for another episode. But that's for another episode. So I just want people to know I'm not like one of those like super granola, only natural births, never took a painkiller in my life, never took an aspirin or Tylenol. But I'm just saying I am very reticent, always have been. But post-COVID, I'm like even more.

No doubt. But it's a really good discussion. People are having it, thinking about it. Yeah. And so I appreciate Erin and Dr. Nicole coming on. Erin, thank you for joining our podcast. I really want to thank her. It's not easy to come on and talk about it so openly.

And, of course, Nicole, we always appreciate her coming on. A few people declined the invitation to come and talk about it. Erin did not. So thank you for that, Erin. And by the way, before we go, we are going to book someone who took Ozempic and had a very bad experience. And we're going to book a doctor who has a different perspective. I mean, listen, Nicole has concerns about Ozempic. So I want to make sure our listeners understand that. We're going to book another doctor as well who says that maybe has even bigger concerns about it. So we'll see. Well, great conversation. Listen, thank you all for joining us at The Kitchen Table.

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