From the Kitchen Table: The Duffys - Does The USA Have The Resources To Beat China?

Episode Date: February 9, 2023

On this episode, Sean and Rachel are joined by Senior Fellow in international relations and national security at The Heritage Foundation, Victoria Coates, to talk about the latest in the Chinese 'Spy Balloon' news, and how the bipartisan support for increased action on China could be a sign of things to come in Congress.  Later, Victoria explains how in order to compete with China economically, the United States must increase energy production, and she discusses the Chinese donations to the University of Pennsylvania that she believes are tied to the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Global Engagement. Follow Sean and Rachel on Twitter: @SeanDuffyWI & @RCamposDuffy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Two freshly cracked eggs any way you like them. Three strips of naturally smoked bacon and a side of toast. Only $6 at A&W's in Ontario. Experience A&W's classic breakfast on now. Dine-in only until 11 a.m. Hey everyone, welcome to From the Kitchen Table. I'm Sean Duffy along with my co-host for the podcast, my partner in life, and my wife, Rachel Campos Duffy.

Sean, it's so great to be here at our podcast, at our kitchen table, and with such a great guest during what's, let's just say, been a very interesting, perhaps troubling week with the Chinese balloon that was recently shot down like seven, eight days too late. But with us today is somebody we had on Fox & Friends weekend. I thought she was fantastic. I wanted to have her back on to dig a little deeper into this. And that is Senior Research Fellow for the International Affairs and National Security at the Margaret Thatcher Center for Freedom. And of course, that's Victoria Coates. Victoria, welcome to the kitchen table. Well, thank you, Rachel and Sean. It's great to be with you. So just give us your assessment of this whole entire situation with the balloon, what it means to you, your takeaway on how long it took to shoot it down

and what it maybe in particular, what it means to you that they were our government, our State Department was going to take that meeting with the Chinese, knowing the balloon was there. We now know that they knew that, but only canceled after we, the American people found out. That's really been kind of the clarifying moment for me in this whole episode is, you know, this is the week when the threat from China in the form of this spy balloon literally arrived at the kitchen table. You know, this problem has come home to roost for us. And I think the threat from China, you know, it's distant.

It's kind of abstract. There are things we've been almost programmed to like about China. And I think the threat from China, you know, it's distant. It's kind of abstract. There are things we've been almost programmed to like about China. We've got the panda bears at the National Zoo, that kind of thing. And I think looking up in the skies and seeing this massive thing cross the country with impunity, while our leadership seemed to just kind of dither and be confused and tried to make excuses, it wasn't a big deal, oh, it happened under Trump, you know, no, this is a hostile power that has made the most egregious invasion of U.S. sovereignty really since 9-11 and is brazenly, you know, parking this thing over our most sensitive military assets. I think the American people are just deeply uneasy with this. And, you know, I look at what the administration has just said about the balloon and try to bring in Donald Trump. They've come and said,

now listen, there were three balloons that flew over the country or parts of the country under Donald Trump's leadership. And Donald Trump and the Pentagon didn't know it under the Donald Trump era. We only found out about this later under the Biden administration that balloons flew during the Trump administration, which seems kind of fishy to me. What do you make of the Biden team trying to drag Trump in? And do you think that the Pentagon is so lax that they wouldn't know that we had Chinese spy balloons going over the country three times under Donald Trump's presidency? Well, this is deeply worrisome, and I think we need to get to the bottom of it. Who did know that those balloons had crossed into our airspace? And what did the Chinese claim they were doing?

If you look at China's statements, Sean, you'll see they're using very specific language to say this was a civilian meteorological vessel. I'm going to have to learn to say that word. In other words, it's studying the weather. And I would like to know if there is anything in, say, the Obama-era China science treaty that allows them to gather information on our weather because they're going to help us with climate change. And so is that what China is using as an excuse now? And they didn't tell

any of us in the Trump administration. We've all been talking, all of us who were deputy national security advisors or cabinet officials who still talk to each other. None of us were informed of this. And we were routinely informed, you know, when the Russians are flying over Alaska or something else is going on, you know, they tell us and give options and, you know, assess how serious the situation is. None of that went on with the balloons. And so was that an oversight? Was it in the, I would say, fairly certain knowledge that Donald Trump would have had that thing on the ground in five minutes and that they wanted to preserve what they considered to be the cooperation on climate. That's what really concerns me.

And I think we have to start foyering those records and find out who knew, who did know, who let this happen, because that's what encouraged the Chinese to think they could just do this with impunity. Yeah, well, if the Chinese know one thing, they know that our elites are obsessed with the weather. And John Kerry has secret deals with the Chinese. Am I not right, Victoria, that there are secret deals that are climate deals with China that we've been trying as a country, or some of our leaders have been trying to get a hold of, and John Kerry hasn't given them over. Am I right about that? You are. And I mean, this is a deeply dangerous situation. Kerry reports to the president. He doesn't even really report to the Secretary of State. So he is an army of one running around the country with what he thinks is vast authority to make all sorts of agreements with the enemies of the United States. He's the

guy who came out after the invasion of Ukraine and pled with President Putin to not, you know, renege on his climate promises. It's just, I mean, it's like, no, this person is not a good partner to you. And, you know, the Chinese, while sometimes saying things that he wants to hear about climate, are then going out and doubling their coal plants. They're the biggest emitter in the world. And we certainly can't take good care of what the good Lord has given us here at home in the United States by shackling our climate policy to the communist Chinese. So I think, you know, Kerry has to be accountable. I mean, he is working for us. And, you know, we need to know what he is promising these dictatorships and enemies of America, because he thinks he has to save the planet. You know, I was listening to Michael Waltz on Fox, and he was making the point that, I believe he said, China creates four ships to R1. They have hypersonic missiles that can destroy our aircraft carriers and our destroyers.

They're sending satellites and whatnot into space at a rate that's higher than the rest of the world combined. And so basically laying out this rising threat of China and made the point that this balloon might be a Sputnik moment for America. In essence saying, our eyes are open, we're becoming awake to this threat. If America understands the threat of China and our leaders recognize the threat of China, and I don't know if that will be the case, but if they do, what does America have to do? How do we have to pivot to make sure we can address the threat that is China? I think we need an all of country effort here. And I agree with Congressman Walton on the Sputnik moment that, you know, it was hard for America to pivot like that. Remember, the Soviets had been allies in World War II against the Nazis. So making that shift to realizing, you know what, they're not our friends.

We cannot work with them. We have to excel on our own to protect our national security. And I think, you know, the effort has to be two-pronged. On the one side, we have to make sure that our military is back in the military business, that they get out of the woke business, they get out of the climate extremism. That has no place at the Pentagon, and it has to be eradicated. You can save money in the defense budget by doing that. At the same time, we have to rebuild, and it's something that President Trump began. same time, we have to rebuild. And it's something that President Trump began. I think we need to redouble that effort to make sure we can meet them ship for ship, that our weapons are the best and the most effective. Certainly, that was demonstrated by the extraordinary skill of the F-22 fighter who

brought down the balloon. But then the last thing we have to do, which is what you all do at the kitchen table every day, which is we have to get our fiscal house in order. The insane spending on completely discretionary and unnecessary things over the last two years has put us in a really bad place economically, where we have not been since the end of World War II. And I think that's an important point because at the end of World War II, we had done the massive buildup. We had beaten the Nazis and the imperial Japanese, and then we could go into a period of enormous economic growth. Chinese at that weakened economic point. And it's why I think we have to, in this debt ceiling discussion that will be coming up in coming weeks, as conservatives insist that we start to get the spending under control. It will be a process. It will take years, if not decades, to get this done. But if we start now and we are responsible in how we spend, the way American families are responsible, we can both do the military buildup and do the fiscal writing of the House that we need to do.

I mean, it's a good point. I mean, economic power is strategic and military power, for sure. I just don't have that kind of confidence. I look at the kind, I mean, frankly, did our, part of why we need to get to the bottom of whether or not who knew and when is I want to know that my, the money that I'm giving to the military is actually working. I mean, if they couldn't detect a balloon, um, and, and at what point did they detect it? That matters to me. I mean, why am I giving, why am I as a taxpayer giving this much money to building up our military? If they're going to not be able to do something like that, if they're going to waste it on a bunch of climate junk that they're doing, if they're going

to waste it on identity politics. I look at some of the ads even coming out of the military, and it's depressing. I mean, I know young, strong men who, you know, a few years ago wanted to join the military. They're now like, I don't really want to join this military. It's not inspiring to them. So I'm concerned on a lot of levels. And I'm also concerned, Victoria, you talked about having to decouple from China. And that's something that, you know, we would, we need to think about, I think about the corporations that are beholden to China, our elites, and their offsprings who are making money off of China. I think of the farmlands. I mean, there are corporations, real estate companies, investment firms, but there are also individual farmers who are selling out farmland to the Chinese. So how do we change this

mentality so people think long term and patriotically about our country instead of selling out our country. And I think if we had leadership, I mean, the president said some really, I think, quite frankly, despicable things about how this business is as usual with the Chinese and it's not going to weaken our relationship. I mean, what do they have to do to weaken the relationship? But if we had stronger leadership that said, look, this is an all of country effort and I want you to look at where your sneakers are made. I want you to look at where your sneakers are made. I want you to look at, you know, how movies are censored. I want you to look at the sports teams that are, you know, in thrall to communist China. And we're going to work with our partners and allies. And the good news is we have such enormous advantages. All we have to do is grab them. And, you know, we were talking about energy on Sunday.

You know, we are an energy superpower. This is just, this is not something we could have imagined 15 years ago in terms of our power in the world and our ability to help ourselves and also to help our partners and allies in a way that China never does. They don't have partners and allies. They have vassals and dependents. You know, if we can grab onto the ingenuity of the American people, which is what China envies and fears, the energy resources of America, which is what China envies and fears, you know, the enormous agricultural strength, all of these things are unique to the United States. We can absolutely do this. And nothing would make me happier than to come out of this and have, you know, some seismic change in China. It's a lie that's pushed by the Chinese

leadership that the Chinese people are incapable of democracy. You know, they can look across the state at Taiwan and the Chinese people are doing it pretty well, actually. And, you know, maybe something could change in China. They could become a friend, but not under this incarnation. And I think realizing that truth, realizing that it's not great to put your state pensions or even your own money into funds that are so heavily exposed to China. This is the message that we have to get out to people and tell and show them what they can do in their own lives to carry on this fight. We'll have more of this conversation after this. Shop Cyber Monday deals now on Amazon with up to 35% off home goods to deck their halls, toys to stuff their stocking, and electronics like noise-canceling headphones to

silent their night. Shop Amazon Cyber Monday deals now. headphones to silent their night. Shop Amazon Cyber Monday deals now. You know, Victoria, I am a pessimist about the future for America because of what's happening in our schools. I think that we're teaching, we're paying taxes and our government is teaching our kids to hate their country. And we shouldn't be surprised when kids come out and they want to burn flags, they want to nail a meal during the national anthem. They have all these negative thoughts about the greatest country, freest country, most prosperous, generous country on the face of the earth. But I agree with you on this point. This is a little point of hope for me that could galvanize the American people around what this threat is and how we have to reinvigorate our country and

re-love our country because it's completely different than what China is. And I was in Congress for 10 years. And by the way, I know that you worked for Donald Rumsfeld. As a member of Congress, I was able to stop by and see him in his personal office in DC, which was one of the wonderful honors of being in Congress that I actually got to meet him. Just a side note, I know. But Congress doesn't work well together. And I mean, again, we have this open, porous border. And I think most people go, why are you fighting about this? Fix it.

You're seeing Republicans and Democrats come together on the China issue like we've never seen before. Are you, Sean? Yeah, I know you are. Are we seeing that, Sean? Yeah, you are. Are we seeing that, Sean? Yeah, you are. Are we seeing that? You are. When you have Democrats come out

and start to talk about TikTok as a threat, as a spy apparatus for the Chinese, which never happened before, that's real and it's happening because every single American, Democrat or Republican,

it's like, shoot that down. Take them down. And so I think with this nugget of opportunity, we could seize it and change course. But I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not sure that we're going to, but it is an opportunity to your point. Can I just jump in really quick? So because I've, what I've seen is a lot of Democrats on TV being apologists for what Joe Biden did.

And yeah, like we could. First of all, I love your optimism and you're right. We could do this. I mean, and you worked for the Trump administration in two years. We already saw results of what putting America first does. I mean, the economy was turned around and you guys had all kinds of things, arrows and the media against you and virtually every institution in America against you. You were able to put America first and we saw the economic and even the military being turned around in so

many ways. But right now we're two years in with Joe Biden. I believe he's compromised, Victoria. And I'm going to be really frank. I believe he's compromised. I believe our inaction perhaps has something to do with that. that we need to look at these NBA teams, that we need to look at our tennis shoes, that we need to start to look at our farmland, look at everything in terms of this new Cold War that we have with China. I totally would love to see that, but I don't see this. And I wonder if, one, if you see it, who is this person that's leading this charge? And two, if there isn't anyone doing that, can we survive two years of this kind of complicity, if you will, in our own demise?

Well, I mean, those are all, I think, excellent observations. And what's been coming into my mind is you've been talking, you know, it's what you said, Sean, about Secretary Rumsfeld, who was a great friend and mentor to me. And I know how thrilled he was when members of Congress like you would come over and visit with him because, of course, he was in Congress. He was. Served three years in 62 to 69, or three terms rather. And, you know, he talked a lot about how bad it was in the 60s. Talk about burning flags and talk about, you know, racial dissatisfaction and violence and, you know, being in Washington after Martin Luther

King's assassination and smelling the smoke. And, you know, so that was just a horrible, horrible time as well for us as a country. And we came out of it because of Ronald Reagan. You know, you had these very difficult, contentious times. But then when you had a leader who had the clarity of vision to say, we win, they lose. That's what we're going to do. And then drive everyone in his administration towards that goal. You know, it became a really, you know, it became morning in America. People were proud to be American again.

You know, it unleashed just an enormous economic boon for the country. So I do think that can happen again. And, you know, these are going to be difficult times over the next two years. You know, our kids are 21 and 19. So, you know, we're going through the same issues that you all are and, you know, trying to keep them on the straight and narrow and grounded and realistic in their views of the world. And they're great young people. And I know, you know, having seen your kids from afar that, you know, yours are as well. And there's a lot of that going on in the country. But we do need that strong voice to say, you know, to speak with clarity on this. And to your point, Rachel, I do think the president is compromised on China. I mean, how do you take $55 million for the Biden Center

at Penn from the communist Chinese and then get paid almost a million dollars a year in academia? That is unthinkable to make a million dollars a year for a foreign policy think tank. And all of that money was coming straight out of China. And so he can't do it. And the Democrats also have a problem in that, you know, for them, climate is a more important national security crisis than China is. So they are going to deal with China if they think it's going to help them on climate. They can't solve that problem. is. So they are going to deal with China if they think it's going to help them on climate. They can't solve that problem. And, you know, the American people, by and large,

don't see it that way. They think you can be concerned about climate issues. We are bringing emissions down in this country more than anybody else because of the conversion to natural gas. We can continue to do that. We can move on to nuclear fission. We can pursue fusion. Great announcement at the end of last year on that. You know, on to nuclear fission. We can pursue fusion. Great announcement at the end of last year on that. You know, so all of this is possible. But the Democrats are not going to be able to be that clarion voice. We're going to need to have that from a Republican. And I'm hopeful that as, you know, our field emerges for 24, that all of them realize this is going to be the generational issue that needs to drive pretty much all of our policies holistically across the government. I couldn't agree with that more. And I hope that the Republican Party has that clarity as they look

at their candidates. And we saw this with Donald Trump. He was clear-eyed on China, and he took a lot of blowback from, as Rachel mentioned, the corporations that make so much money making their goods in China and come back and sell it here in America. He got a lot of pressure, but he put the tariffs on China and was going to go further, I think, had he won re-election. And now I think one of the positives is every candidate that comes out and wants to run against President Trump in this primary, they're all embodying the America First set of ideas that he really brought to the party. And they're just coming out and saying, well, I'm not Donald Trump.

I don't have that personality, but I love the ideas. And I'm going to push the America first ideology should I win, which I think is refreshing for this transformation that's happened with the Republican Party and how they view China as a threat, how we have to look after our own people first, not close ourselves off to the rest of the world, but make sure that we're doing what's right for us first and foremost, and then we can help others secondarily, which is the right role of government, I would think. Oh, absolutely. And the good news on that front is, you know, doing good for America is the best thing I could do for the world. We have been the greatest force for good. You know, when people

talk about democracy promotion, isn't democracy wonderful? And I mean, I like democracy. I wrote a book about the history of democracy, but it's an abstract. It's a form of government. But if I want to preserve that, I don't do that by undermining and weakening the United States of America. I do it by strengthening the United States and standing up for our values, which are our values, they are unique to us, and making sure that we protect this, you know, this shining city on the hill. And I think what's so hard for all of us right now is we see, you know, policies being enacted that seem to deliberately undermine it from education to energy to whatever you care to mention. whatever you care to mention. And that's where I think we have to just be as strong as we can, you know, stick together and make sure we have a change in 24. And, you know, I think what's perfectly clear now is, yes, President Trump occasionally tweeted. Actually, he tweeted a lot. That was not the worst thing. It was not illegal, immoral, or unethical. And, you know, I think

most Americans would say, actually, immoral, or unethical. And, you know, I think most Americans would say, actually, I was better off two years ago. Yes. Yeah. I think the issue of Joe Biden being compromised is, and by the money, and I think we need to dig into that money that you talked about. I think it's, we need to not stop talking about it. I know that a lot of people want us to stop talking about that. We need to talk about it because I think it could explain some of the things that we couldn't explain about what happened last week. I really love talking to you, Victoria, because I do feel more optimistic after talking. And clear.

I think you bring clarity to the issue as well. You do. You bring a good clarity, your understanding of our energy issue, but more importantly, how energy rich and powerful we are. If only we could unleash it, how that is a piece of the puzzle. There's just so many things you're talking about. I'll say the last thing that you said really struck me. You know, I think about it in terms of a marriage, of a family.

It's like you want your family to be strong. Well, you better make sure your marriage is strong. If we want the world to be healthy, we better make sure that America is healthy economically, national security wise, and in all the other ways, socially as well. So I think you bring up some great points. I could talk to you forever, but we don't want to keep you. Again, where can people read more about what you're doing and perhaps your book, anything you want to say? Because I think a lot of people enjoy hearing your perspective. Oh, that's very kind. And I'm always happy to visit with you guys.

I think you're both great Americans. And I think if anybody wants to see my stuff, I post it on Twitter at Victoria Coates. stuff. I posted on Twitter at Victoria Coates. I have a homepage at heritage.org where my things are also posted. And I really appreciate everyone's support. The book is actually called David's Sling, A History of Democracy in 10 Works of Art. Oh, I love that. Is that out already? It was 2016. And I'm working on a follow up. We can talk we can talk about this. Oh, wow. We'll have to do something on that. I love that. Wow. Okay, I'm gonna look up. I'm gonna order your 2016 book. And when's the new one coming out? I hopefully next year. It's I mean, the dirty little secret about me is I started out with a PhD in Italian Renaissance art history. started out with a PhD in Italian Renaissance art history. That's a wonderful secret about you,

Victoria. It makes me like you more. So will you promise that when that book comes out, you will let Sean and I know? Because I'm going to get the 2016. I'm already Googling this. And we'll have to talk about when your new one comes out. I will look forward to that. Thank you both very much. Victoria, thank you for joining us. Thank you, Victoria. We appreciate it. Wow, she's a really interesting lady, Sean. Well, so well-informed, and she's got perspective that has great range.

And so to come into this, and again, to be someone who loves America with the American First philosophy, and to lay this out. And you made this point in the podcast. She's very hopeful. And again, me as a sourpuss, she was actually making me feel... It's hard not to be. I know. The new book is, it's called 1503. It's about the year Michelangelo does the David and Leonardo does the Mona Lisa at the same time in the same place. Wow. And the purpose of it is to explain modern art that people keep saying, I hate modern art. You know, I love the Mona Lisa.

I love the David. I don't understand this. But it's the change in art from being physical to being conceptual. That's what they do. They do it deliberately with those two pieces. And so you don't have to like Duchamp, but you can understand Duchamp if you understand what Michelangelo and Leonardo did in 1500. So that's what I do in my spare time because I'm a geek. Well, that's the kind of real well-rounded people we need in government, Victoria. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Thanks for your insights. And again, I encourage everyone not just to get her books, but check out her stuff at the Heritage Foundation. And on Twitter. And on Twitter. She's been one of the most thoughtful voices in this new Chinese cold war that we're facing right now. Victoria, thank you. All good. Thank you, Victoria.

Take care, you guys. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. If you like our podcast, you can rate, review, subscribe, wherever you get your podcasts. And you can also listen ad-free. Hey, Sean, you can also listen ad-free with the Fox News podcast, plus subscription on Apple Podcasts, also on Amazon Prime. Those members can listen to this show ad-free on the Amazon Music app.

So lots of ways to listen to us. So true. So exciting. A lot of places to get this ad-free or not ad-free. So again, we love doing the podcast. And again, Victoria was fantastic. Rachel, thank you as always. Until tomorrow, we're going to do another one from the kitchen table. Bye, everybody.

Bye-bye. Listen to the all-new Bret Baier podcast featuring Common Ground. In-depth talks with lawmakers from opposite sides of the aisle, along with all your Bret Baier favorites like his all-star panel and much more. Available now at foxnewspodcasts.com or wherever you get your podcasts.