From the Kitchen Table: The Duffys - Dr. Marty Makary On Taking Your Health Into Your Own Hands

Episode Date: September 13, 2024

Medical technology and treatments have never been better in America, and yet we continue to see a rise in chronic diseases and dependence on medication. Though it can be easy to try and point the finger at one source for making America sick, there are many culprits behind the complex problem. Dr. Marty Makary is shedding light on who those culprits are and how Americans can avoid them. The renowned surgeon, Johns Hopkins professor, and best-selling author sits down at the kitchen table to discuss how misguidance in major establishments like the food and pharmaceutical industries has led to decades of misinformation and why, with education and intentionality, Americans can improve their chances of living their healthiest, longest lives. Follow Sean & Rachel on X: @SeanDuffyWI & @RCamposDuffy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The epic return of Yellowstone is now streaming exclusively on Paramount+. You destroy me, you destroy yourself. Unlike you, I keep my promises. The wait is over. Yellowstone, new episodes now streaming exclusively on Paramount+. Hey everybody, welcome to From the Kitchen Table. I'm Sean Duffy, along with my co-host for the podcast, my partner in life, and my wife, Rachel Campos Duffy.

Sean, it's great to be back at the kitchen table, literally, like just before we joined the podcast. You ran outside. I saw you running through the window. You went to your garden so you could get some peppers and tomatoes to add to your lunch today. So we are literally at the kitchen table. Sean is making his lunch to take to work today. And it's perfect because we're talking about getting healthy. And you and I, we love this topic. I've been, I don't think

I've ever been happier about anything than the fact that Make America Healthy Again is a major campaign platform issue for Republicans. And Republicans are leading the way on getting chemicals out of our food and making America healthy. And somebody who's also weighing in on this debate and has a lot of credibility on it in that he was one of those brave physicians during COVID who was calling out the medical industry, the pharmaceutical industries, and of course, our government for all the lies and weird collusion that was going on there that was making everybody sicker and more afraid than they needed to be. And of course, that was Dr. Marty McCary.

He joins us today at the kitchen table. As you know, he's a renowned surgeon. He's a trusted professor at John Hopkins and a New York Times bestselling author, partly because of his new book called Blind Spots. It's fantastic. It's currently it's number two right now on Amazon in public affairs and policy politics books. right now on Amazon in public affairs and policy politics books. But it's selling out, I think, because it's bringing attention to all the times that our medical community, our public health policy experts were so sure they were right and they turned out to be wrong. So we're so excited to have Dr. McCary join us today to talk about the book, to talk about the state of health care in America, to talk about making America healthy again, especially during this election year. So with no further ado, Dr. Marty McCary, thank you for joining us this morning.

Always great to be with you both. Thank you. So tell me, first of all, why you wanted to write Blind Spots. Why did you think this book was an important contribution to the conversation about health in America today? Because we're on a hamster wheel where we've told doctors just to focus on billing and coding. We are medicating people to death. We've got the most overmedicated population in the history of the world. And nobody is talking about the root causes. Nobody is asking, why is our health care economy now $4.7 trillion? You know, every American worker pays for it through their

health insurance deduction from their paycheck and the Medicare excise tax. And we've done research on our team at Johns Hopkins that it's half of federal spending. And at no point in my career dealing with pancreatic diseases has anyone on my team, that is our group at Johns Hopkins, whom I love, they're great doctors, they're great experts. No one has ever stopped to ask, why has pancreatic cancer doubled in the last two decades? No one's asking, why is autism going up 14% a year every year for the last 23 years? No one's asking why half our kids are obese or dealing with overweight. So we've got to take a step back and ask big questions that have lived in the blind spots

of modern medicine. There is great new research on the microbiome and food and additives and pesticides and all the things in our modern day food supply, but we don't talk about them and it's time that we talk about them. So I couldn't be more excited about this new enthusiasm to finally address the root causes of our chronic disease epidemic. You know, doctor, it seems like it's not, it shouldn't be that complicated, right? And I love that we have, you're like, we should do some research on why these things have doubled and tripled over the course. Why has pancreatic cancer doubled? I would love to know that too. And by the way, let's go there. Do we know why?

Why is it doubling? Well, if we're changing our microbiome. That is this gut health, the bacteria in our gut that's responsible for our mood and it trains the immune system. That garden of bacteria, the millions of different bacteria, is involved in everything. It's central. It drives body inflammation when it's out of balance. And so we're seeing a lot of those increased cancers are GI cancers, cancers along the GI tract tract and pancreas is one of them. So what are we doing? And let's just let's just take one issue before we get go out bigger. This is so interesting to me.

Everyone's talking about the microbiome and about getting, you know, gut health. And so what are we what have we been doing that's decreased that healthy gut bacteria? And then what can we do to get it healthy again and bring it back? Avoid unnecessary antibiotics. You know, 60 to 80% of antibiotics are not even really treating anything. They're just given to make us feel good or we give them out because people demand it. But they are carpet bombing the microbiome. Antibiotics can save lives, but they're doing damage to the microbiome.

And the average 10-year-old in America has now already taken 11 courses of antibiotics. For what? For little sniffles. In some countries, they take them for a headache. They just see it as a magical pill. And you've heard the dogma, hey, it probably won't help you, but it won't hurt you. That's not true. It's damaging the microbiome, unnecessary C-sections. When you're born, the microbiome isn't there in utero. When a woman is pregnant with a baby, there's no bacteria in the baby's

gut. So the microbiome, this balance of millions of different bacteria form in the gut from the seeding of bacteria along the birth canal through the vaginal tract. And so when you're born by C-section, a baby doesn't get that. A baby is extracted from a sterile operative field. And what may seed their microbiome in the gut are bacteria that normally live in the hospital. Those are not good bacteria. No. Breastfeeding plays a role. By the way, can I say that on breastfeeding?

We don't tell enough women what the benefits of breastfeeding are. Why? Tremendous benefits to the baby and to their long-term health through the microbiome. They have better gut health. Now, some women cannot breastfeed physiologically, but do you remember when we had the big infant baby formula shortage? A lot of discussion, but nobody would touch this issue. Maybe we are way behind on our breastfeeding goals that the CDC itself has laid out. Yeah. You know, who was talking about it was Nicole Sapphire, by the way. She caught a lot of heat for saying the problem is, yes, the making recommendations and telling us things because they believe it's good for us.

But the truth is, they're giving us recommendations and telling us to buy products that are actually killing us. And it seems like there's an awakening in the country right now. And maybe it's been going on for some time, but this, I think it's exploded with RFK teaming up with, with Donald Trump. And Cali Means. And Cali Means. Yeah. This whole group has come out to go, you know what, the food is poisoning you. And what maybe the CDC was telling you, or the FDA was telling you, wasn't actually true. And I wonder, how does this change, doctor? How do we get to a new place where we have smart people giving you the best advice

possible for you and your health, not for pharma or food or for medicine? your health, not for pharma or food or for medicine. Well, I agree, Sean. It is such an exciting time because for the first time in modern history, this issue is taking center stage in a nonpartisan way. If you think about how RFK framed it, he said we can have many differences of opinion, and he does with Trump and other folks. But he said, here's one thing we can all agree on. And can we love our nation's children more than we hate each other? We're seeing now, folks, regardless of their political background, saying, gosh, finally, we're talking about taking on big pharma and big food and big ag.

For most of my career, Rachel and Sean, it's just been a couple of bullet points on a PowerPoint at a medical conference where we're just talking to ourselves. Nothing is happening. We're getting nothing done. We're going backwards. We're talking to ourselves. There's been no action on these issues until now. We're finally talking about pesticides and seed oils and

ultra-processed foods and all the other things that are driving general body inflammation. Well, you're talking about what's driving, I mean, all these chronic diseases that are exploding. And when I look at it, and maybe I'm just, you know, cynical, but it seems like so much of this is profit driven. Even if there are well-intentioned doctors, the fact that they're not getting this good information to me seems like there's a profit motive behind it. Because, for example, we were talking about breastfeeding. You know, there's a lot of money to be made on formula. If everybody knew how great breastfeeding was in terms of lowering cancer, in terms of what you talked about with the benefits for the baby, the mom, those companies wouldn't make the money. You talked about the antibiotics,

Dr. McCary, and I was actually shocked to hear that. Like, I grew up in an immigrant home. And, like, my mom is an immigrant. My dad is first generation. And, you know, medications were just not, like, a thing. Like, if we got a headache, they would say drink water. And they would say, you know. By the way, that's the recommendation in our house. The kids go, it's like, drink some water.

Drink some water. I don't feel well. Drink some water. You know, my sister always says, if my kids feel depressed, I just say, go for a run. And the truth is that my parents now are in their eighties and they're on no medications. And that, I mean, how unusual is that Dr. McCary? Look, they beat the system, your parents. And so did my parents. I'm also an immigrant. And when you go overseas, there you go. So, you know, I hear stories of people saying, I've always struggled with chronic abdominal pain. But when I went to Italy for a summer, I just felt better. And we have a food industry that has captured American medicine. Pharma has captured American medicine. And it's not always, I think, as diabolical and as intentional as some may think, but they control the dialogue. They control all the research. So what kind of research do you

think pharma and the NIH are going to find? Are they going to fund research on pesticides and ultra processed foods and the refined flour that's chopped up and stripped of all its fiber where we're basically eating sugar and calling it bread? No, they're not going to fund that. First of all, the NIH is busy. They're funding research on bat coronaviruses in places like Wuhan, China. And the medical establishment is bought off. The American Academy of Pediatrics has one of their biggest sponsors, just go to their conference, is the infant formula company that makes this artificial milk. I spoke at the National Nutrition Conference, the big dietetics annual conference where all the dietitians and nutritionists are there. I might have been 10,000 people in the audience. And afterwards, I meet one of the sponsors, a lobbyist from the American Milk Association.

And I'm so blown away. I said, you're one of the main sponsors. By the way, who are the other main sponsors? I found out the other main sponsor is Coca-Cola. So it's no wonder. It's no wonder we're not talking about sugar and the American Heart Association has guidelines from the food industry for the last 60 years. The medical establishment got the food pyramid wrong for 60 years. The medical establishment got the food pyramid wrong for 60 years. It was government misinformation and still is. They got opioids wrong for 30 years, causing the opioid epidemic. They got peanut allergy guidance wrong for 15 years,

causing the modern day peanut allergy epidemic. So medical dogma can do tremendous damage. So I look at just in our own home, and I've mentioned this before on the podcast, but we just started to look at what's in bread. Like all the list of the stuff that's in bread is so long and I don't know what any of the stuff is. So Rachel bought a bread And we put six things in water, milk, butter, sugar, yeast and corn flour. That's six. Move to honey as soon as Sean's bees start to produce more honey. That's true. But I know what goes in the bread. There's only six things. I can't find any bread anywhere that only has six things.

Right. And I think that more Americans are paying attention to what's on the labels and what they put in their bodies and speaking of that you you kind of this i think this used to be a liberal idea if i'm going to put a a classification on it i would think of and i've lived by them and with them but liberal liberal Birkenstocks, you know, maybe a little special odor along with them. And they're, they're living off the land. They're like, I want to, I want to know where my food comes from. Well, since the pandemic doctor, there's all these conservatives who have joined the liberals in the homestead movement where they're growing their own vegetables raising their own their own beef and i think something's happening when you see the political spectrums on both sides start to unite and go we all believe that we should we should know where our food comes from and what

goes into it and be more and be closer to it which brings me to the thought of the peanuts i'm sorry i'm going over the map but i i know about the opioid epidemic, right? What's the thing with peanuts? Well, first of all, I couldn't agree more. The real battle in America is not between conservatives and liberals. It's between those who are lying and those who are trying to tell you the truth. And we've been lied to about the food supply. So on peanut allergies, the modern day peanut allergy epidemic, which is bad. I mean, it is bad. Schools have banned peanuts. Kids can go into a severe anaphylactic allergic reaction just being close to a peanut. peanut. This is all brand new stuff. We didn't see it just a generation ago. Peanut allergies don't exist in Africa and many parts of Europe. The reason this is a uniquely American epidemic is that the medical establishment ignited this epidemic with a false recommendation for kids

ages zero through three to avoid peanuts, thinking it would prevent peanut allergies. Turns out there's a thing called immune tolerance that they ignored, that kids need to be around these allergens early in life. They need a little bit of peanut butter or peanut exposure in the first couple of years, especially in infancy. And if you do this abstinence recommendation that came from the medical establishment, you will create intense peanut sensitivities. And then the only way to manage them sometimes is to avoid peanuts, which means more peanut avoidance for the other younger kids in the house. And so it's become a self-licking ice cream cone. It is a perpetual epidemic that is spun out of control, ignited by the medical dogma from the American Academy of Pediatrics in the year 2000. It was proven wrong just seven years ago in a big randomized control trial, a trial they should have done before they issued the recommendation based on their own gut feeling.

So sometimes it's on a gut feeling. And so they went down this path. But when I think about the demonization, for example, of fats in food that we now know, talk to us about when did fats get demonized? What's the truth about fats in food and why did that happen? So the fat demonization was much more driven by a politician doctor and the food industry. And that politician doctor was named Dr. Ansel Keys in the 1960s. He was, I would describe him as the Anthony Fauci of his day. He had incredible. He doesn't sound good. He had, and if you know my relationship with the Anthony Fauci of his day. He had incredible. He doesn't sound good. He had. And if you know my relationship with Dr. Fauci, I don't think I don't think he's going to be sending me a Christmas card this year. So he told the world that Eisenhower had just had his

heart attack because he ate too much natural saturated fat. And he convinced the world he convinced through his political maneuvering, the American Heart Association to demonize it. There was a lot of controversy. Doctors were pushing back saying, wait a minute, there's no good evidence to support this. You've got one shoddy study called the seven country study that I write about in the book, Blind Spots. But it omitted all these countries almost deliberately. It like cherry picked data. And yet that was the basis, the science to support demonizing fat, removing it from the food supply. And so the food company added the highly addictive product of added sugar.

They figured out how to chop up flour into such small pieces that it functions like sugar. And they engineered highly addictive food additives. So that became the uniquely American diet. Other countries didn't really move that way, but because of Ancel Keys and the American Heart Association, and then the food pyramid, it became what we call the standard. Why did he do that? Was he getting money from these companies? Was he paid by these companies in some way? What would be his incentive? He built his career on this hypothesis. So he was more just a self-preservationist. But pretty soon, he joined up with Dr. Walter Willett, one of my professors at the Harvard School of Public Health, he joined up with Dr. Walter Willett, one of my professors at the Harvard School of Public Health, who was head of nutrition. He wrote the nutrition textbook.

Now, Willett, I remember, had a photo of him and Ansel Keys in his office. Well, Willett was paid off by all the food companies, and this was the guy writing the textbooks. This was the guy writing the textbooks. Wow. No, no conflict. So, so, I mean, I, I, again, I, I always come back to my, I'm very concerned about our public debt because again, $35 trillion in debt, fast track to 50.

And there's a point of collapse, right? Just, and then everyone's poor. And you, just one of the first things you things you said is it could be half of the American budget goes to health care. And so the amount of money you could save if you had a national plan to make your citizens healthier is you could balance the budget with it. You don't have to cut anywhere else. Just cut all the money we spend on health care. And so I wonder, how is it going to happen? If we get to this place, is it going to be led by the FDA? Is it going to be led by food or pharma?

Or is it going to be market-driven? Is the market, are the people going to say, you're liars, we are going to choose to buy different things, and only then we'll see industry and government follow the people? Or will the industry and government lead the people to a healthier lifestyle? Do you understand my question? I do. And I think, Sean, it may be a combination of a bunch of us who are going directly to

the public, and we're telling the public, you've been lied to, here's the truth about health and the food supply. There's a bunch of us, Casey and Kelly, me and you mentioned, they're wonderful, Peter Attia, Mark Hyman, Subha Damani of Vinay Prasad. A lot of us now are going directly to the public. We're fed up with the medical establishment showing their PowerPoints

to each other at their little internal conferences. Nothing is happening. We're moving backwards. And the other piece is the government should stop all these ridiculous conflicts of interest among people who give us our health information. I mean, it's not their opinion. This actually determines what's in school lunch programs. Maybe we need to talk about school lunch programs instead of putting every kid on Ozempic. Maybe we need to talk about diabetes being managed with cooking classes and healthy foods, not just putting everybody on insulin. We'll be right back with much more after this. The housing crisis in the GTA has reached a critical point, with more than two in three residents being affected. Reporting that almost nine million Canadians are living in food insecure households. Over one million people in the GTA now live below the poverty line. We're just out today.

Mental health support is the number one reason people are calling 2-1-1 for a... At United Way, we wake up to a different alarm every day. Help us end poverty and build a better GTA any way we can. Donate today at unitedwaygt.org. How do medical systems, doctor, navigate someone like you? To go like, okay, listen, I know that we go to these conferences. I know there's all these recommendations that come from government. But I'm sorry, from all that I see, I believe that I'm going to write a book, Blind Spot, and I'm going to go

directly to the consumer to say what we, and part of our institution even, is telling you is wrong. How does the politics of that work? I guess he's trying to ask, what's your life at work like? life at work. Well, I'm very fortunate because for 20 years, I did highly complex surgery at Johns Hopkins and I developed a great rapport with all my colleagues in every department. So they know me personally. And then I got research funding through philanthropists that enable us to study whatever we believe is important, not just what the NIH tells us to study. So we're working on the big topics in medicine that we are not talking about that we should be talking about. And that's why we did the largest study on natural immunity during COVID

and a lot of the things that are in the blind spots. And masks, you also did a study. It's like, that's so unbelievable. I'm like, why did it take Dr. McCary to study whether masks are effective? Yeah, they got $80 billion. All of us to do it? That's when I knew something was wrong,

actually. It was really interesting because your place in history during the pandemic, and believe me, they're trying to whitewash everything that happened. They're trying to get us to forget that Randy Weing they're trying to whitewash everything that happened. They're trying to get us to forget that. You know, Randy Weingarten trying to come out and say, I never said close schools. And Fauci is trying to say he didn't recommend closing, you know, closing schools or kids being isolated or mask.

But the truth is, you were a big part of the exposure of the corruption in our government and the way public health officials who were in positions of power were willing to do and say anything that their political, I don't know, overlords wanted them to say in order to, you know, I'm still convinced, Dr. McCary, that a lot of the COVID tyranny was driven by the need for, you know, more ballot harvesting. You know, it was like they needed to get, the Democrats have wanted it for a long time to get people away from, you know,

voting on election day and increase. And boy, it worked. I mean, now I think, I don't know, I think I saw that like 60% of all the ballots are going to come via mail, which was the dream for Democrats for so long. So for whatever reason, they had to do that. And you were sitting over there as all of us parents were, you know, so distressed that

they were trying to muzzle our children, you know, on airplanes and in stores and ruining their lives. And you came up with the study as simple, like should do mass work. I mean, I just think you expose so much. And I'm just wondering, like, have other doctors who were cowards during COVID, do they feel shamed now by by seeing people like you and seeing what happened now that we know the truth about COVID? Maybe, but there's so many doctors who did it and they would secretly praise Jay Bhattacharya and myself and others who are speaking up. But then publicly, they would put their head in the sand. All these deans, all these academic leaders who are supposed to be smart at centers of learning, they put their heads in the sand.

And they let these small group of central planners in medicine lie to the American public over and over again. They were deceptive. They were telling me privately, Marty, you're right about natural immunity. It's real and it's effective, but we can't talk about it because then some people may choose not to get vaccinated. And I thought, this is it's like mind control and the most dangerous thing a government can do is to ream through a vaccine for young healthy people firing the experts at the fda who are the vaccine experts who opposed it and then force your population to get it and then silence the doctors who express their concerns openly in the public forum. That is the most dangerous thing a government can do, and we just saw them do it.

Yeah, well, in Wisconsin, there were doctors who would raise concerns about all the recommendations that were coming from the CDC. And they were threatened with their medical license from the licensing board in Wisconsin that they could lose their license, right, and potentially getting fired from the hospitals with which they worked. So the threat was real. I mean, they pay their mortgage. I mean, we all understand when you lose your job how that can be very distressing. So they were silenced by the simple threat that their licenses could be removed. And I think that's what's so troubling. Again, and I always thought that I would love to have, you know, Jay Bhattacharya and Dr. Martin McCary with Fauci, all together having a conversation about what is the best science?

What's the best evidence that we have that's going to work? But instead, Anthony Fauci was science and they shut down all debate, which I think was I think that's contrary to science. Right. You're supposed to challenge hypotheses and see if the hypothesis is right. Obviously, Anthony Fauci was wrong. And that wasn't allowed. Yeah. The purpose of science is to challenge deeply held assumptions. And we don't do that. We do a terrible thing to doctors. We tell them, be obedient.

You get all this medical school debt. Just put your head down, do your job, and you will be rewarded. Bill and code will measure you by your throughput. And we've done this terrible thing to American medicine. We have not given doctors the time or resources to address the root causes. You know, this guy, Tim Walls, I guess he's running with Kamala Harris. I've heard of him. So I don't know if you know how he got elected, but a great doctor ran against him named Dr.

But a great doctor ran against him named Dr. Scott Jansen, a friend of mine. Well, Scott Jansen had his campaign ads removed by Facebook and his social media accounts deleted for covid misinformation simply because he opposed the Fauci Biden administration dogma on covid mandates. That sounds like election interference. It was he ended up losing by seven points so i mean that is that's the real story of how we got tim walsh wow that's an amazing story that's actually it it shows that convergence of where science and and politics and and that really really bad intersection so with thinking about like making America healthy again, and so much of it, by the way, really quick, because you mentioned the effect on doctors, you did tell me that the, I think the suicide rate is huge for doctors. Is it the highest in any profession?

Yes, it is. And burnout too is very high because we've done this terrible thing to doctors. Yeah, it's terrible. How much of, like, if you could divide out, like, what a doctor hadie Means and learning from his sister who went through the medical field, that very little time is spent on nutrition. And yet nutrition plays a huge role in your health and in your ability to heal yourself from different diseases. What percentage of the studying that doctors go through, and I know it's extensive, should actually be devoted to nutrition? Well, hardly any time has been on nutrition. I have a buddy, Dr. Will Bruhn, who just graduated from Oklahoma University Medical Center.

He told me he got two hours of nutrition education. Wow. By the way, there was like six hours of pronoun education. Yes, I believe that. Priority to right. And in the two hours of nutrition education that he got, it would have been better to have zero because it was misinformation. It was the old food pyramid stuff. I mean, we just had the government tell us Lucky Charms is healthier than a steak.

Why is that? That's an NIH-funded study. pyramid stuff. I mean, we just had the government tell us Lucky Charms is healthier than a steak. Why is that? That's an NIH-funded study. What are we doing? We're running around like a bunch of idiots in the medical leadership. We've had terrible leaders. We have been misled, and they've done a terrible thing to doctors. So yes, we need to change the medical education, take the power away from the small private company that controls the curriculum of every medical school in the country. They write the exams for every medical student. And so every medical school teaches what they say they're going to test on. And these are traditionally dinosaurs, forcing them to memorize the names of the Krebs cycle molecules, even though you never need to know that stuff on demand.

And we have computers now. You don't have to know the Krebs cycle in the trauma bay. We have this broken education that's controlled by this small private company. And so we need fresh ideas. Look during COVID, who was running the NIH? A bunch of 70 and 80-year-old scientists. How about some age diversity? How about some idea diversity? How about big ideas to cure cancer instead of these small incremental steps that they fund?

Yes. I mean, wouldn't that be nice? So let's go to like kind of brass taxes in your view. Let's go to like kind of brass taxes in your view. If you're giving people advice, like right here on our podcast, to think about what they should think about when they're eating, what kind of foods they should eat, what kind of meals they should prepare, any basic recommendations on how we can just start to make our families and our country healthier? Yes, I have a lot. First of all, avoid unnecessary antibiotics.

They're changing your microbiome and gut health. Good advice. Very important, I think. And avoid pesticides. If pesticides are killing pests, what are they doing to the bacteria in your microbiome? Yes. Right? So eat organic.

Good question. This is where we need research, not on bat coronaviruses in Wuhan and subsidies, because, you know, I believe we should eat organic. I have nine kids. It's expensive. I can afford to do it at, you know, I'm 53 now. But when Sean and I were younger, it was a real struggle. And so for a while, when we had a few kids, we lived in a little hippie town and we could buy, you know, we only had two kids and then we had three and we struggled. And then once we got six, we're like, all right, out the door, we're buying at Walmart. So like the point is, if our government wants to make us healthy and they should

for the financial reasons and the debt reasons Sean was talking about earlier, why do we subsidize crap food and not, especially for people who are truly poor, why don't we subsidize organic food? Our, you know, as if this couldn't be any more pathetic, our tax dollars are funding the poisoning of our food supply, right? And people need to know about seed oils, food additives that are engineered to be addictive, the food colorings that don't exist in the cereal that Kellogg's makes in Fruit Loops in Canada and Fruit Loops in Europe. It looks different because they don't have the vibrant colors because they don't have these chemicals that

give it that coloring called the yellow number 40, red number nine. They're banned in a lot of Europe because we realize these are not good for your health. And avoid the seed oils. Seed oils are the most misnomer term in the world. They sound natural, right? Vegetable oil. Well, guess what? It's not natural. Vegetable oil, corn, soybean-based oil, these seed oils, they are heated up and denatured. They have a chemical solvent, and then they're transformed into a chemical that does not appear

in nature. And what happens is when it goes down the GI tract, your body is reacting. It's not a sudden inflammatory response. It is a slow inflammatory response that's low grade and it's always there. And it creates general body inflammation that affects every organ of the body. It makes people feel sick. And then we medicate kids and tell them, well, you have this oppositional defiant disorder, attention deficit disorder. Yeah, we've made kids sick with our food supply. And then we medicate them for these conditions. So two questions on the seed oils, because I hear a lot about it. Maybe I don't know. I never heard anyone explain it like that. I thought vegetable oil could be kind of healthy because it comes from vegetables, obviously. It's a problem.

So two-part question. What oils should people be buying, number one? But also, should we be looking for seed oils in the foods that we buy as well? So not just what we use in the kitchen, but also seed oils that are in the foods that we might get in the ingredients of the food we buy at the store. Yes. Look for all these kinds of common seed oils and avoid them as best you can. Now, sometimes you can't. They're everywhere. They're in school lunches all over America. But you want to avoid those corn, soybean, vegetable oil, canola oil. They're cheap. They were developed as a byproduct of the petroleum

industry as a lubricant. They're not for human consumption. They're 10 to 20% of American calories now come from these seed oils. Unbelievable. It's unbelievable. Now, when you want to cook at home and make things and look for good ingredients, use olive oil or extra virgin olive oil. That's just cold pressed olives with natural oils that are not denatured. Avocado oil, coconut oil. Those are the healthy oils. And I encourage people switching over to them. What about tallow? I'm hearing a lot about that. And I know people that cook with it and we're thinking about it. What do you think? Yeah, I've heard good things about it. I probably don't know enough to recommend it, but that's interesting. Yeah.

Okay. So nutritionally, what about alcohol? So alcohol is bad for the body. What? Hold on, doctor. People who can have a glass of wine and manage it, good for them. But there is a dogma that was even circulated by the medical establishment that, oh, it's good for your heart.

Well, if there was ever any tiny benefit to the heart, it was far outweighed by the damage to the liver. And people who don't drink alcohol can sleep better sometimes. They feel better sometimes. And we have to recognize that what kills more Americans than opioids each year is alcohol, something we never talk about, yet we celebrate alcohol abuse in our society and culture, in colleges and advertisements and movies. The celebration, unquestioned glorification of alcohol abuse in our society is something we have to take a look at

because 170,000 Americans die each year from alcohol abuse. That's double the number of people that die from fentanyl and opioids. So I've, again, I've randomly online, but seen videos of, again, I was joking with you. I knew what your answer was going to be on alcohol, but people have said, listen, it's poison. And again, we use it, we like it, it's social, but it's a poison you're putting in your body that we don't manage very well. And also does alcohol lead to inflammation as well? Absolutely. It's an inflammatory agent. It's got a high glycemic load, which is basically a type of sugar effect, which increases, we know added sugar increases general body inflammation. And the way that people, the industry in part, has dismantled any criticism of the health effects of alcohol is to say, we're not going to go back to prohibition. That was a failure. Right. Well, that's no one's talking about that. We're talking about glorifying alcohol abuse to young people.

Yeah, I agree. You know, I just think so much of this, Dr. McCary, I'm so excited because I think information is power. And what I've seen happening, I mean, in some ways, like Sean, I love that Sean brought up, you know, the way homesteading is exploding. And I think, you know, there was a lot of reasons, right? There was, you know, the supply chains were stressed and people couldn't get the foods they wanted. And then just like they were seeing what was really happening in to their kids in schools, they were also starting for some reason, opening up to like what they were being lied to about in their foods and the more people went back to nature in terms of you know health and nutrition and avoiding processed foods

i just think this movement is is is fascinating and i think you know you were talking about the lies right and when there's fear in in I think, the government right now, there's a real fear that RFK Jr. and Cali Means and people like you might actually influence policy and get out, not necessarily in a coercive way, but just by telling the truth. Like you said, the pyramid was a lie, the food pyramid. They were lying to us that if more people got information, they would make better choices for the family. Nobody wants to get their boys and their kids or get their grandmother sick with bad food. Everyone wants to give their family the best.

We've just been lied to about what's good for us, right? That's right. And I'm sure the industry is mobilizing right now. I'm sure they're panicking because there's a bunch of people out there now talking about this. I mean, Casey and Kelly Means have done a tremendous good thing for American society, educating people.

Their book is a great book. And I saw their book was number one on the Amazon bestseller list this weekend. My book, it was number two on on the Amazon bestseller list this weekend. My book, it was number two on the overall Amazon bestseller list. Peter Atiyah's book is the number one bestseller for the year. I mean, people are waking,

people are hungry for honesty when it comes to health and food. They know they've been lied to. I love your book. It's called Blind Spots, by the way. It's so good. And again, you know, I think a lot of us, we get intimidated when we go to the doctor's office and we feel like, you know, doctors know everything. And some of this stuff is pretty, I mean, the stuff you've

been talking about is pretty simple stuff. I mean, obviously if my kid breaks his leg or I get cancer, I'm going to, I'm going to want the best doctor ever. But I can heal myself and prevent my family from getting sick by just feeding them well and knowing what's in the ingredients and the things that I buy in store and just kind of going back to nature. The reason I like blind spots is because that sort of pedestal that we put doctors on, which we love doctors, we love nurses, we love people in the medical profession, but they're not gods. And so many of them have been susceptible to the pressures and the incentives, the bad incentives coming from government, coming from money, coming from corporations. And what you do in this book is show

all the different times that medicine got it wrong and actually hurt people. And what you do in this book is show all the different times that medicine got it wrong and actually hurt people. And that's not to put a, you know, cast a bad light on doctors, but to say that, you know, it's not the be all end all if it comes from the FDA, certainly not the way our system is right now, and that we have to do our own homework. We have to do our own stuff. And I just think it just kind of dispels some of the things we used to believe as, you know, the science, Fauci, the science. It's like, you know, this stuff is, they get it wrong sometimes. Yeah, look, frontline doctors traditionally think independently. They consider all the research and their own clinical observations. They customize a treatment

recommendation to an individual. But lately, we've had a small group of medical oligarchs, a priesthood, and they have a terrible track record. They've gotten so many major things wrong. And when the everyday rank and file doctors say, hey, wait a minute, this doesn't make sense. It violates everything we know in science. In my own experience, they are shut down or they are steamrolled. And the group think dominates. And that group think is a powerful force that still looms large today. Look at the Amish communities and old Mennonite communities

in the United States. We have tremendous data on how they do better on so many health outcomes. They barely have chronic diseases, lower rates of cancer, and so many. There's barely a thing called autism in the Amish communities, and it's not for lack of looking. So what are we doing in medicine with this incredible reservoir of data? Can we take a look? I mean, they're not Christian scientists and Christian avoider, you know, complete 100% avoiders of medical. No, they'll take antibiotics. Sometimes they have C-sections, but they use far less of the modern Western food supply. They don't liberally throw stuff into their mouths, not understanding it. And they work hard and they eat whole foods. So this has been in the blind spot of modern medicine, but it turns out that

we have a community in the United States with very low rates of chronic diseases that we can learn from. Wow. There's a lot because a lot of it is the future is in the past and they they clearly live in the past. And there's some really good things that we've thrown away in terms of our our our nutrition traditions. I was going to bring that up, doctor. I think what this, what, what, what blind spots does also is listen, there's a lot of things that you do that we have no, no, no clue how you actually make that magic happen, but it seems like a lot of Americans have outsourced their common sense to the FDA for recommendations. And frankly, your mom or your grandma have a lot more common sense on what's healthy and what's good. And to tell me that lucky charms are better than a steak or that, again, I can eat an apple that's been sprayed, you know, multiple times with pesticides, but those

pesticides aren't going to have any impact on me. Well, that defies common sense. And they tell us, no, you should suspend your common sense and believe us. And I think what you're kind of saying is, hey, you know what? The medical industry has blind spots. Probably what your gut is and what your grandma said is probably closer to the truth than the FDA and the CDC. Yes. Yes. I mean, we've got 287 forever molecules. These are chemicals that are in the blood supply of every newborn in America that we've never studied. And the little research that's done on it is ignored by the medical establishment. So when we scratch our heads and ask why all these diseases are going up, don't you think we should have natural curiosity

and ask some of these big questions and study these questions? So I couldn't agree with you more, Sean. Well, I think your book is coming out at like perfect timing. And I don't say that just because I think the American people are awakened to this topic and marketing wise, it's good. But I actually think that your book, the means, Callie means and Casey means book, the Make America Healthy Again platform that's been introduced into the Donald Trump campaign. I actually think this has the potential to turn this election,

that people want the system to change. I don't even think it's like about Kamala Harris or Donald Trump. It's like, who do I trust to break this terribly corrupt system? And it's nowhere seen better than in the medical community and in corporate takeover and industrialization of our food supply, a big ag, the way our small farms who are producing the best, healthiest, most delicious food for us are being throttled and thrown outside. You know, it can barely make it. I mean, so many of them are going out of business because of the way the system is set up. And so I think your book and what all these other people I mentioned are doing are talking about overthrowing this system of corruption.

And I think that your book, you know, you made history during COVID. I think this topic and your contribution to it might also be part of what turns this election because this is the most bipartisan issue out there because everyone wants to be healthy. Everyone wants to take the chemicals out of the food. Everyone wants to protect their kids and their family and not and not, you know, succumb to chronic diseases that they didn't have to succumb to. I agree. Amen. Rachel, thank you for those kind words. You know, we have to identify the distractions, the ways in which we're being lied to from these shiny objects that are thrown at us by politicians. For example, they're celebrating the politicians right now that we got Medicare to negotiate

drug prices. OK, that's 10 drugs in year one. It's saving six billion dollars. That's what they that those are their numbers. Well, we have a $4.7 trillion healthcare system that's growing by 8% a year, okay? So we are being lied to. The problem is not that Medicare cannot knock down

the price of 10 drugs a tiny bit. Our problem is that our population is getting sicker and we're the most over-medicated population with an expensive bill for it all. And we've got to finally start addressing the root causes of health. And little known secret, many doctors want this because they are burnt out. They're fed up. They know what's going on.

They've been told to get on this hamster wheel. They don't like it. And they want to have the time and resources to spend time with patients and study these deeper issues that they know are behind our modern chronic disease epidemic. Well, hopefully, again, this is part of a movement that changes the course and direction of this country that makes us healthier again. And I just, as someone who watched you and had a chance to talk to you over COVID and now talking to you about blind spots, I don't know that every doctor has enough time to sit and think about what's good for me and my family. But I think you've been,

and again, we're never always right, but I think you have been one of the bright, shiny spots in American culture that said, you know what, I'm going to take everything I know and I'm going to try to give you the best information, the best advice, whether it was COVID or here. And I think a lot of doctors don't do that. And maybe because they don't have the autonomy that you have, they don't have the gravitas from all the great work you've done in the past to have that freedom now, but that you've used that freedom to, to educate and give the best information I think is a true benefit. So to the country truly is Sean's going to call you a bright spot,

not a blind spot. And I love that you are a bright spot in our day today. It's always an honor to have you on. And by the way, I'm going to post our interview. I got a lot of great reactions to the interview that you and I did this past weekend on Fox and Friends. I have to remember to post that because a lot of people commented on it. I want more people to see it. So thanks for joining us. Good luck with the book. I think, as Sean said, it's a service to America and hopefully we can make America healthy again. I think it's a it's a worthy cause. Now, thank you so much, guys. Great to see you both. And thanks for having me.

Thank you, doctor. Have a good one. Thank you. Thanks. We'll have more of this conversation after this. Welcome to the business. Billy Bob Thornton, Demi Moore and Jon Hamm star in a new Paramount Plus original series. more and john ham star in a new paramount plus original series the world has already convinced itself that you are evil and i am evil for providing them the one thing they interact with every day you're all right here we go from taylor sheridan executive producer of yellowstone get everybody back go you just put a giant bullseye on this place we rolled the dice one last time landman new series now streaming exclusively on Paramount+. I got to tell you, Rachel, this is a topic that we talk about a lot.

We do. We talk a lot at the kitchen table, at our actual kitchen table, and on the podcast, because I think this is so important. And there's been so many lies told, so much misinformation. And again, you mentioned you mentioned America is waking up to the lie and they're looking for, for better answers, better information so they can make better choices. Nobody wants to poison themselves. No one wants to poison their kids. If you can save a dollar and poison yourself with cheap food, you would have to go, yeah, I probably prefer not to put poisons in my body.

And again, that's the information. I could spend maybe a few more minutes a night making my own bread in a bread machine rather than, you know, have to go down to the grocery store and buy this thing with 30 ingredients that I don't even know how to pronounce. I think people would make those choices. I think people think it's a lot harder than it actually is. Look, it does take a little more thought. But once you're in the groove of it and you've changed the way, you know,

we stopped buying cereals. I mean, we don't really buy cereal anymore. We've just found different things to feed our kids in the morning. And they feel better. And they have more energy throughout the day. And they come home less, you know, famished, I think, than when we were, you know, feeding them more processed food. And it wasn't because we wanted to feed them processed foods that we didn't know. And we're all learning. You know, I think I had the advantage and you too, Sean, because we both came from families that were just sort of ate more

traditionally and not very processed. But we, you know, out of convenience, we're adding some processed things into our life. And financial need. And financial need, but we're taking it out. And what I want is I want our government to step in and say it should not be that you can only eat organic if you're a rich white lady. Like, it can't be like that in America. You can only eat organic if you're a rich white lady. Like, it can't be like that in America. It has to be that our food supply is healthy and available to all Americans of all economic, you know, brackets.

And if you choose to eat chips and Coca-Cola, that's your right. But it shouldn't be cheaper to buy chips and Coca-Cola than apples and grass-fed meat. It shouldn't be. And by the way, if you're going to eat chips, then maybe we should make the chips less poisonous. It's still probably poison, but less poisonous. If you're going to make Lucky Charms, how about we take the Canadian? I've never said this.

We'll take the Canadian version. There's a first time for everything. That's the first time Rachel has has said that i'm just i've had a flash from the past for myself i've i've taken to growing this garden and listen i it's not as productive as i'd like but i get i'm getting tomatoes and cucumbers and peppers and i'm flashing back my mom used to have a garden and i don't know if you notice this but when i pull something out of the garden and we eat it, it just tastes better. True. It's very, very true.

And there's a pride. And also, you know, I think for our kids, it's been really great for them to make the connection between where food comes from. You know, I think, you know, people think these things just appear in the store. Like, you know, people think these things just appear in the store. And I think it's been fun for them to watch their dad go out there and tend his garden and weed it and do all kinds of things to keep the deer away from it. And then to be able to go out and harvest it. And, you know, I'll send them outside to go, you know, pick the tomatoes or whatever is growing. And I think it's a beautiful thing. And it's back to nature.

And I love it. Back to nature. I try to grow pinto beans. And those are, I bring a couple of beans in at a time, right? Just like this is it. I'm going to have to get the Goya beans. All right. Listen, everyone, thank you for being with us. Thanks to Dr. Martin McCary. He's always a fantastic guest and always someone who will go against the grain for truth. We love that about him. So listen, if you like our podcast, tell your friends and your family members, your neighbors, how great it is. And please rate, review and subscribe. You can always find us at foxnewspodcast.com or wherever you get your podcasts, you can find us

from the kitchen table. Thank you for being with us. And we love doing this. And this time, this podcast truly was from our kitchen table. So have a great one. See you later. Bye-bye. Bye, everybody. Listen ad-free with a Fox News Podcast Plus subscription on Apple Podcasts. And Amazon Prime members can listen to the show ad-free on the Amazon Music app. From the Fox News Podcast Network. In these ever-changing times, you can rely on Fox News for hourly updates for the very latest news and information on your time.

Listen and download now at foxnewspodcast.com or wherever you get your favorite podcasts.