From the Kitchen Table: The Duffys - FBI Whistleblower Explains How & Why The Agency Is Being Used Against Americans

Episode Date: February 16, 2023

On this episode, Sean and Rachel are joined by former FBI Agent and Federal Whistleblower Kyle Seraphin, as he explains the recent targeting of Catholics by the FBI, and how the agency uses laws that were passed in the wake of the 9/11 terror attacks to investigate American citizens.   Later, Kyle discusses the circumstances behind his expulsion from the FBI, the network of whistleblowers he has established within the agency, and what Congress can do to reform the Bureau.   Follow Sean and Rachel on Twitter: @SeanDuffyWI & @RCamposDuffy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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BetMGM.com for terms and conditions. Must be 19 years of age or older to wager. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Hey everyone, welcome to From the Kitchen Table. I'm Sean Duffy, along with my co-host of the podcast, my partner in life, and my wife,

Rachel Campos Duffy. It is so great to be back at our kitchen table. And today our guest is somebody It is so great to be back at our kitchen table. And today our guest is somebody I'm so excited to have. His name is Kyle Serafin, and he's a U.S. Air Force veteran. But just as interesting or more interesting is that he was an FBI special agent who was basically a whistleblower and suspended because he was the whistleblower, I believe. So we're going to have Kyle come in. He's going to talk to us about what's happening at the FBI

and specifically some of the infiltration that we now know is happening or was happening into traditional Catholic communities says a lot about what's going on at the FBI. Kyle, welcome. Thanks so much, Rachel. Sean, thanks for having me. Well, if you guys can see this, Kyle has a great American flag. It's a backdrop. He's drinking coffee. It's cold in northern Arizona. So don't shiver on us, Kyle. Yeah, listen,

welcome to the kitchen table. Tell us the story of what you found out about the FBI and infiltration. Let's start there of the purpose behind what they're doing, infiltrating traditional Catholic churches. Yeah. So this document that we exposed, which happened last week, is a intelligence product. It's written by an intelligence analyst. That's kind of an indoor dog that hangs out at a desk and writes term papers for a living. And they write them about what they believe the threat picture looks like inside the United States. And generally speaking, that's going to be counterintelligence, counterintelligence, counterterrorism, things like that. Some of them do things that, you know, about criminal work. But in this case, this

analyst who seems to be kind of a woke activist based on this stuff, I mean, there's words like pregnant person in this document talks about abortion rights and LGBTQ agendas and things like that that need to be defended, which is really not the purview of the FBI. But for whatever reason, this analyst wrote this paper and indicated that there was a very common cause that because of these types of issues that traditional Catholics who love the Latin mass would have with white supremacists. And I know, Sean, you're a Catholic. I've been raised in a Catholic church for my whole life. Forty one years. I've never met a white supremacist at a Catholic church. But that is what this person assessed.

And there's a funny thing in there. And if you look at that document, they said this is the first of its kind and actually the first of its kind in the whole FBI. There's two reasons for that. Number one, it's ridiculous on its face. and probably more concerning is that it is a First Amendment violation to try to put sources into a church specifically for this sort of like unwarranted concern about white supremacists. But so be it. That's the FBI today. That's the world we're living in. It's one of many things that have gone wrong. So you worked at the FBI. I have so many questions about how something like this happened. So is this analyst that you talked about, this

woke analyst who wrote up this paper, I mean, is he a rogue person or would he have been instructed by a superior to turn out this document? It's hard to say. He's definitely not alone in that sort of ideology. So the more the FBI has become an intelligence agency, and this is a legacy of Director Mueller since 9-11, it's moved more into an intelligence agency with a law enforcement capability, as opposed to what most people would assume, which is that it's a law enforcement agency and it has some intelligence capabilities. So it's really the opposite of what people think. And because of that, you recruit analysts from a very specific pool of people. They're going to be highly educated.

They've got degrees behind their name. A lot of them may not have a ton of life experience. You actually don't have to be have any life experience, I think, to come in and be an analyst. You can come straight out of college. They'll hire you at 21, 22 years old. So, you know, like I say, there's a big difference between people who have the life experience. I joined the FBI at 35. I'd, you know, been in the Air Force, as you mentioned. I'd managed restaurants. I'd worked in a movie studio. I'd done a bunch of other things. So when I came out and shook somebody's hand, it wasn't the first time that I'd met a stranger and had a strange conversation about something. I worked in corporate sales for a while too. But you get these types that come out of college. All they know is what their

professors have indoctrinated them with a lot of times. And they see a world that we see in the media, which is that there's a white supremacist and they're extra bad and religion is bad and people who have traditional families are trying to destroy America or something crazy. So Kyle, I want to ask you about how the FBI works. So let's say we get a woke little analyst, right? And he's like, I'm progressive, I'm woke, and I know that traditional Catholics are bad. So I'm going to write a report where I'll go to these liberal sources like what they went to Salon and the Atlantic and Southern Poverty Law Center. I'm going to go to those sources.

I'm going to write this paper about the Latin mass and Catholics who go to it. Does that paper then go to some supervisor? Is there some supervisory capability to go, whoa, dude, listen listen hey you this is

absolutely unacceptable burn that or does an analyst going to be able to send this thing out um and you know let everybody see it again is there any managerial oversight over an analyst to send this out which because what i'm asking is did higher ups at the fbi approve this or is this just a rogue analyst? No. So the way that it usually works is this person would write a paper. It would be probably peer reviewed by some of the folks that are on the squad, the intelligence analysts that he or she associates with. And then it gets reviewed by a senior intelligence analyst. That's a supervisor. So for folks that know the government scale, it's a GS-14. That's a relatively, you know, at the top of the general scale or the general schedule

pay grade. Then that has to go up and be approved by a lawyer who runs the division. And it's called the Chief Division Counsel. In this case, the document indicated that the Chief Division Counsel had reviewed and approved this. So it went through all the chain. Now, it's not the top of the FBI's management by any means, but this is the top of the Richmond Field Office and the legal advisory.

And then it went out and was published. And now the FBI has retracted this document, as you may have seen, you know, people like John Solomon, people like Tyler Neal, only after we exposed it, right? They didn't go out there and say, oh, preemptively, you know, we exposed it. And then that's embarrassing. So they got their hand caught in a cookie jar. I've talked to a number of people who have been around this in the investigative journalist side, and they said 100% chance that they agree with me that this would have been like a seed crystal. It would have been a single document out there. And they said a hundred percent chance that they agree with me that this would have been like a seed crystal. It would have been a single document out there.

And then somebody else would have written another paper about it and another paper. And we would have built a crystal of seven or eight different sort of, you know, statements about this. And then you can use that to predicate cases. So they'd come after and say, well,

this person likes the Latin mass. And we've seen that radical traditional Catholics are this problem. So blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And also these documents that have said this in our, in our own internal files. And we referenced the Intel product traditional Catholics are this problem. So blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And also these documents that have said this in our in our own internal files,

and we referenced the Intel product. So let's open this case. And I'm not saying it's a criminal case. It's an Intel case that they can run forever. And they can investigate you because of that. Right. And so the whistleblower that gave you this document, is there any indication that the FBI has acted on it? Because certain people in traditional communities, I believe the head of church militant, they believe they have been infiltrated. So any indication that that's happened or that any action was taken as a result of this document? a result of this document? None that I have yet. It's not to say that we're not looking into it. I've got, so the way that it works is when I got suspended, I knew that it was coming. I knew that it was something the FBI might do to me. And so I started reaching out. Can you go back and talk to us about that so our listeners have an understanding about how that happened and how you came to be this person that is now getting information. All right. So Rachel, this is the

dumbest story there is. But what happened is I told the FBI that I wasn't going to get the vaccine shots under any circumstances. And at the time that I said it, I'm a nationally registered paramedic. I'm actually licensed in the state of the FBI, which is not real, but it is. So I have been a paramedic for over a decade with the top secret clearance. And I said, if I can't stay at home with a box of Kleenex and the sniffles, then maybe you shouldn't give me a security clearance. They ended up acting on those words a couple months later. But essentially, I said, I wasn't going to do that. I wasn't going to take a COVID test every 72 hours, which was the FBI's made up

policy. And at the same time, I got an email from one of the guys that sat next to me that indicated, and you've probably seen this, that the FBI would be looking into parents at school board meetings under this new threat tag known as EDU officials. So I was the first person to disclose that. I went to my congresswoman, Yvette Harrell, and I gave that away. It went up to Jim Jordan's office. They got another person who did a whistleblower on that as well. And so it was substantiated. So sometime in November, that went public. And on November 23rd, the FBI, my supervisor said, you can no longer come back into this office unless you have a negative COVID test. In the meantime, we had gone out and I'd filed several lawsuits with a couple of groups.

We put together some money. And so we got an injunction against the for the entire federal government that the FBI and the entire federal government could not enforce the vaccine mandates. And so that's still waiting to be adjudicated in the Fifth Circuit under the NBank review. We should see that pretty soon, I think. But at the same time, they went for another step of compliance, which was the 72-hour COVID test. I got sent home in November of 2021 and basically said, don't come back. So I used personal leave for a little while.

And then I was still an FBI agent. I still carry a gun every day and I still carried a badge and all this kind of thing. So in January, I showed up at a firearms qualification on leave in my own vehicle, uh, on my own time. And I was sent home on what they, they called a wall, which I was familiar with from the military and your military listeners will know. I didn't know that was a status in the federal government, but they, they actually gave me absent without leave for showing up at work, uh, totally surreal. And then after that, I was out in the desert in New Mexico, just doing firearms training. Then for those people who live in Western states, it's probably familiar for people who live in Eastern states. It's not. We have a lot of public land in New Mexico where I was stationed.

Tons of it, probably 85% of the state is just owned by the federal government. So I was out on some public property in the middle of nowhere. I'm 900 yards almost away from anything, from any road or anything else. And I'm out shooting into the desert and there's 20 miles of nothing. And on the other end of that are mountains and beyond the mountains are a hundred miles of nothing, the White Sands Missile Range. So it's literally just shooting into the desert of nothing. And I'm shooting into a berm that's 30 feet high. And this cop drives out and he says, hey, people can hear the gunshots. And I said, no problem. He says, I don't know where we are. We might be in the city. We might be in the county. And I said,

well, we're in the county. And he goes, okay. And he's a city cop. And he goes, well, I don't know. And I don't know what the rules are, the state law that governs whatever's going on out here. And so basically he went out and said, I don't know what my authority is. And then he said, please, you know, can you stop shooting? And I said, no, I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing. By the way, I'm a law enforcement officer and this is my badge. And he goes, oh, okay, fine. That's fine. Okay. Well, I'm not going to write a report about this. And he left. And that was the end of it. The FBI, my supervisor pulled the body cam footage from a friend, watched it, showed it around the office, showed it to a secretary, showed it to people I worked with.

And then all of them, you know, I don't know what they decided. I came back in and I filed a complaint about it because it's weird. You don't do that. And we have agents that have been DUI and wrapped government cars around telephone poles and stuff. I've never seen body cam footage of that. That's not common. But for whatever reason, my boss showed it this round. I filed a complaint with the DOJ and said maybe this was an abuse of his authority because it's weird.

And they closed that investigation 30 days later, opened an investigation into me, and they basically found a reason to get rid of me under what they called unprofessional conduct. And so that's what I was suspended for, unprofessional conduct with a police officer. Totally bizarre. I called the investigator who was looking into me and I stealth recorded it because it's a one party consent state in Washington, D.C., which is great. And so, I recorded a 68-minute phone call with my investigator, who admitted that I didn't do anything wrong, but she didn't like the way it looked. You didn't like the way it looked? Well, they didn't like the way I was out there talking.

She said, you know, the way that the temperature and the humidity of the air and the transmission of sound could be very bad. So it was bad optics for them, and she was concerned about that. So she just made some stuff up. But I posted the call on the Internet. People can listen to it on my Rumble channel. I posted the body cam footage of the interaction with the cop because it's totally transparent. I know I didn't do anything wrong. Every cop I've talked to says I didn't do anything wrong. But they wrote it up the way they did. So that's how I got suspended. And I'm confident it was

about the whistleblower stuff and the fact that I was unvaccinated, which is the problem. So that's how I put together a group of people. So I knew this was coming. I got 300 people in the FBI together. They're all Christian. They're all unvaccinated. They're all willing to try to work against the evil that's going on in the FBI. And so these people are coming to me now because I've obviously gone public. I talked to Dan Bongino on a podcast and kind of put my name out there. And I just I decided to be the lightning rod for this problem. And now people know to come to me and they know how to get to me through this group of, you know, end to end encrypted communication. So we have kind of a pathway to get directly to people in Congress and also directly to the media, because this is America's information. So I'm sorry for the

long winded answer, but that's it's so crazy. No, I'm so glad you're giving a full picture. And it's just amazing. Like, I I mean at so many points in your story a lot of people would just have given up and said I can't fight this system and you know sort of surrendered or just been dejected or feel hopeless as this entire organization is coming down on you I love that you're still standing I love that you've become this lightning rod and this person that we can get in because one of the questions that I've had since the Russia hoax stuff has been, what's happened to the FBI and how many good guys are there left in there? Because everyone goes, well, don't worry.

The guys that are in the field, they're great. And it's just the bad guys at the top. But then I see people show up with guns and cars in front of this poor pro-life Mark Houck's house. And I'm like, who are those guys? Because you couldn't pay me enough money to go terrorize that family. So kind of explain to me what's happening in the FBI, the people you know, and is there hope for a change here? So I interviewed Mark Houck the other day on my little podcast that I started. I'm kind of in that world. And Rachel, just kind of for full transparency, the only reason I'm still standing

is because I've got a wife that backs me up 100%. So I'm sure your viewers can be sympathetic to that theory. If you don't have a partner that's in it with you, you're in bad shape. Amen. So yeah, so here's the deal. The FBI is not a monolith. It is a multi headed multi armed squid with brains on every arm that make no sense. And if you try to organize a corporation the same way the FBI is, the corporation would fold on its own weight. So you've got a lot of decent people. And I'm friends with people in the FBI. I'm good friends with people in there. And obviously, there's a number of people that are still working against what's going on. Not all of them are,

all the whistleblowers that I deal with are unvaccinated Christians for whatever that means, unvaccinated to COVID. I'm sure they have regular vaccines, but for whatever that may be, you've got, you've got this group of people that are trying to work against it. You've got some people that just have their head down and they're just doing criminal work. They just want to do the job that they got paid to do. And I don't think they're bad people, but there's a lot of folks at the top. And this goes the supervisory level at the front line. And then their supervisor,

which is called the assistant special agent in charge, the special agents in charge of the field office, the assistant director is like, you go all the way up to the top. There's weird and problematic conduct happening at every level. There's a lot of sexual misconduct. That seemed really, really crazy to me,

but it is a thing they used to screen out in the polygraphs that if you were cheating on your wife or if you were running around with a mistress in the job, you know, the Peter Strzok scenario, that's actually not that uncommon. It's bizarre. But I was hearing about secretaries that were running off with special agent charge of field offices

and they would go on a SWAT mission somewhere to go and oversee it. And then, you know, the secretary would stay in the same hotel the same hotel room. And that's bad because you don't want to have an agent who's compromised in any way. Exactly right. No, you nailed it. That's it. It's like it's a national security problem. It's a problem. And OK, so Charles McGonigal, we just heard about him in the news, right? He was the special agent in charge of counter intelligence in New York. That's the top CIA guy. That's the most secretive position in New York. And he had a girlfriend on the side who noticed that he had bags of cash because he was getting cash from

Albanians. So that's bizarre, right? Like all of these things are bad, but it's not all that uncommon. We saw the same thing down in Miami. There's a guy named George Pirro actually had the New York Times write a hit piece on me. And they said, how dare you impugn the honor of George Pirro? And it's like, well, George Pirro was banging around in the office, and that seems like a problem. And then he was treating those people badly after he had bad relationship with them. And I think he's back with one of them right now. But she was somebody else's wife in the office. Like, that's terrible. Like, what kind of screwed up environment are you dealing with? So when you have that kind of petty corruption, and it's sexual, and it's cash-based, you know,

some things are money, and some things are just baser desires, you leave open an agency to be corrupted by other things as well, including ideology. And once you're compromised, like you're going to say yes to what you need to do to keep your job. And a lot of these people are willing to. We'll have more of this conversation after this. Save up to $75 in the Ancestry DNA Cyber Sale, our lowest price of the year. Treat yourself or a loved one to a DNA journey of discovery at a truly incredible price.

Discover your heritage, learn about your ancestors, and make new family connections. But hurry, these savings are only for a very limited time. Visit Ancestry.ca to start your journey today. Offer ends December 3rd. Terms apply. So Kyle, again, I think I was in Congress for nine years and we give incredible power to people and agencies and we trust them to be respectful of the power that we give. And one of those is the FBI. We have a lot of power sits within the FBI and you need good people within the agency and the bureau to actually

exercise with discretion the power we've given them. And it seems like over the course of, I don't know if it's over five years, 10 years, 15 years, there's been a complete erosion of the respect for the power that the people have given. And I guess my question is, when did this transition start to happen that it went from good people doing good work, trying to protect the country, respecting the law, to something different, which is it appears to be a political organization. I mean, the leaks that have come out on Donald Trump, I mean, it was coming from the FBI and the DOJ. There's no way that you keep the story alive with the media unless those inside the Bureau and the DOJ were willing to leak those stories out. And then we talked about Mark Houck

and what's happened with you and traditional Catholics. When did this start to happen? Was this under Barack Obama? Was this under Trump? When did the transition inside the bureau start to happen? I think it began probably September 12th of 2001. That was probably the first movement towards this animal. So I had a senior intel analyst sit down with me and do an interview, and his statement to me was something really interesting. I think you'll find this to be true. He said that on September 12th of 2001, just after the towers fell, that America accepted a new definition of national security. And this was what led to it. So before before that day, we all knew that American national security meant the continuation

of our constitutional republic and protection of the US Constitution as our founding document. That was national security. People die defending national security. It happens all the time, unfortunately. And, you know, like I'm friends with people who have, who have given their life for that. And then you go and then you cross over after September 11th. And the new definition was no American can die from a terrorist attack on American soil. Once you do that, once you have that sort of bizarre experience, it, it fundamentally changes the way that we're going to be looking at the world. And you're no longer willing to accept risk. So you might as well weld yourself into the house the way the Chinese were doing for the COVID zero policy, because that's what it is.

We just don't take any more risk anymore. Very dangerous stuff and really bizarre. But that's how it got changed. And then you moved into an intelligence culture, which meant that they were trying to do pre-crime. And that's why we're here. So, you know, it's a shifting thing. And you'll probably notice the power just went out here in the cold. So that's pretty funny. I just looked over and I went like, oh, I guess we just lost it. So what we saw was that there was a this is the nature of the world right now. There was a fundamental shift, right? There was the shift from looking at bad guys and trying to find them to trying to predict who the bad guys were. And then, and you mentioned Congress about it, too. The way that Congress plays into it is that Congress is funding certain mandates that the FBI has to be involved in. And in order to get the monies that are allocated to those mandates, the FBI has to hit certain metrics that they've delineated. metrics that they've delineated. So they have a vested interest in being correct when they do pre-crime. And so they're going to assume that there is crime and then they want to go and show

that it's out there. So they have to go out and prove that it is. They've said there's going to be a big threat of white supremacy. That means you've got to go find white supremacists, including going to the Catholic church, including going after people that are pro-life activists like Mark Hout, who is a wonderful man, by the way, and just a very spiritual human being. But that's what you get. You get this bizarre world where they're trying to pick winners and losers in an ideological game. And when it really should just be who did the crime, the government shouldn't have any interest in the outcome. They should only have interest in the process that it's fair. Absolutely.

So what do you say to people who say, listen, I mean, you described this squid with lots of arms. And, you know, it just honestly, it's such a great visual description. I see it. I mean, I feel it. We all do. What's the answer? Is the answer, because I'm hearing a lot of people say, you have to defund the FBI and kind of start over that. And I love how you brought up that this goes all the way back to just the way, the compromises we were willing to accept in the name of safety, starting with 9-11 and how that then was used in COVID. I mean, everything else.

What's the answer? Is it just to defund it? Tear down, I think. That's the only answer I can come up with. I think it has to be torn down. I think you have to, you've got to really rip it out. As you mentioned, there have to be good down. I have, I think you have to, um, you've got to really rip it out. Look, as you mentioned, there, there have to be good people. There have to be only good people because you're dealing with something that has so much power.

It has to be beyond reproach. And when it's not, when you compromise the badge, when you, uh, you know, tarnish and corrupt the image, the American people, at least half of the country right now knows the FBI is probably an enemy. That's a terrible space. That's a terrible space to be as an FBI agent. Like I feel for my friends out there in the world, you don't want to knock on the door and not know whether someone's going to go blast at you because they just decided today's not the day, even though it was just going to be a simple interview. So it's just not a safe place to operate.

General Flynn is a perfect example of that. General Flynn was who tried to cooperate. It's like the FBI is here. I'll tell you what I know. And he was flipping prosecuted. Can I tell you what I know. And they use flip and prosecuted. Can I tell you a good example, Kyle? I mean,

this is like super, you get it as a dad. I mean, so at Halloween, my son said my, my little six year old, he, he wants to be a cop when he grows up.

So we went through, you know, he said he wanted to be a cop on Halloween as well. So he, you know, I went through the Amazon and looking all the all the different costumes and the coolest looking one was the FBI one he's like I want to be the FBI one and I was like not this year no not this year that's the right answer

I see you you're correct getting him like you know the blue you know traditional city cop kind of thing but I thought wow just a couple years ago i would have been proud to have my son be an fbi agent and and this was of course right after the the mark how thing here's my question to you those officers that went in for example to get mark how and terrorize his family and saw those children crying and his wife terror terrified guns drawn i mean like like how do they do it because i'm like i was as mad at the agents that day as i was at whoever you know the their boss was that gave them the orders because i just wouldn't have i wouldn't have participated in

that yeah i mean one of my academy classmates was on the raid for miralago so uh and we don't talk anymore and i don't know if it's because he's ashamed because he knows that i'll lambast him over it or what but like we just that just, that's it. That was the end of it. It just straight goes to me. Um, Mark told me that the, the people that, uh, went in the house were, uh, sort of apologetic when the supervisors went around and that the person who drove him to the field office gave him a handshake and said, thanks. So nice meeting you. And it's like, are you kidding me? Like how, how ashamed of yourself are you the next day? I hope, I hope they have that self-reflection, but I'm not sure they do. There's a lot of people that, uh, that it's called

the golden handcuff for a reason. It's like the paycheck and the pension is it's a good gig. It's a, you know, there's, as my buddy said, you could never work so little, uh, for so decent money, uh, as working for the FBI. And honestly, it's a, it's a really fun gig. And I never hated going into work ever. I mean, I got called at three in the morning on a Saturday night to go down to a federal prison because somebody had died down there to do a death investigation. I was never mad about it. I just told my wife, hey, honey, I got to go to work. I got called at midnight on a Sunday and said, hey, we need you like right now to go do a terrorism, you know, counter surveillance or a surveillance operation rather. And so we would go and watch it because we didn't want someone to go

do something terrible. So you do those things. And, you know, it's a great gig. And so we would go and watch it because we didn't want someone to go do something terrible. So you do those things and you know, it's a great gig and I'll, I'm hopefully not going to lose power here because I'm looking at this battery starting to go low, but I'm just giving you guys the warning on it. But yeah, it's, it's a, it's a wonderful, fun gig to do, can be very rewarding. And the people that you get to work with can be great. A lot of them feel compromised in a lot of ways. And I think that they know it because they gave so much up during this sort of COVID stuff that happened in 2020. You know, a lot of America did. And I don't know that how long it's going to take to recover. So Kyle, I think just being in Congress, we're not going to burn it down. Congress is not going to burn it down. The politics is not there. And I know you know

that. I was just going to ask you that question, Sean. I'm glad you brought that up. My question to you is, is there a flow of information that you can give the Jim Jordans, the Jim Banks, the Comers, the Kevin McCarthy's to go, listen, you can't burn it down, but this is what you have to do. And it can be a flow of information to figure out how we, I don't want to cripple the FBI, but I want to roll it back to his traditional position in law enforcement. Go ahead. We've got to get rid of the domestic intelligence mission. That's the big piece. That's the enemy. That's the enemy of America. So the fact that they are doing Patriot Act stuff, like we're using tools from the NSA, like I've used them. I know what they are.

They're really dangerous. The FISA 702 process that Mike Lee is really into, that's got to go. It's just, it has to be taken away. And let me just tell you how 702 is used so people can get just a concept of it because it's bizarre. Imagine if you had a metal detector and you were a TSA officer and your job was to look for guns and everybody had to go through the metal detector and they told you, you can't use the metal detector to find guns. You have to find guns and you have this tool, but you can't use that tool for that thing, even though that's the tool. So when you get, you know, what we're doing is we're getting emails from foreign entities. This is what 702 does. Foreign entities that are not in the United States and they are sending information and we're looking at their

emails, we're looking at their facilities and so on. That's what's in the law. That's what it allows us to do from the NSA. Anything that touches an American company's wire. The problem is, is that the most interesting thing to someone like me as a criminal investigator, and by the way, it's explicitly illegal. It's called reverse targeting. But the most interesting thing to me is who are the Americans that are selling us out to these people? You know, can we recruit them as a source to run against the enemy country? Or are they actually selling us out and we need to investigate them from espionage or counterproliferation or whatever? And so that's the tool. That's what it's available for. And it's illegal to use it the way that it's actually most useful to us. And it gets used wrong because

people don't understand how to even use it at all. So that's got to go. It's got to. And they got to get rid of things like the FISA. Like it's just, I've seen FISA's into Americans because they've made some like goofy connection to a foreign terrorist organization like ISIS or Al-Shabaab simply because the guy went on a forum and said, you know, I'm ISIS. And they're like, that's it. Boom. FISA on Americans. We shouldn't be using FISA for that. That's not what it's for. Well, listen, Sean was just saying how heartened he is by knowing guys like you were in the in the and advising Congress, because you know what? You might not know how Congress works. I don't know how the FBI works, but you guys out there advising the Congress and

what has to happen. And I hope the Congress uses the leverage of these must pass funding bills to actually do the work to carve out the cancer in the FBI. And I've heard a number of people say what you've just mentioned, which is this intelligence wing of the FBI. Big mistake. If you want to keep it, separate them. But you can't have them going together. It has to be. MI5, MI6 model, that's the move. You can't have them tied together. And when I talked about the giant squid, it's not just the giant squid with all the arms and all the arms have their own brains. There's another squid living on each of the arms that's called the DNI. And so the director of national intelligence owns all of the intel analysts that are paid by the FBI. So you have FBI employees that don't answer to the FBI. They answer to the DNI. That's how you get Intel products like this Catholic, you know, Catholic document. They're out there trying to achieve a metric that's not even part of the FBI's mission per se, but it's become part of the mission because that's how the funding comes in.

And by the way, that funds a lot of upper echelon GS 15 and above jobs. And so there's a lot of money for agents to go in there too, which is why they took it on. allowed their buddies to get more you know high paying gigs and go back into washington and come back out to the field with more pay hey kyle what's your podcast it's called the kyle seraphim show uninventively named but uh very easy to find it's very easy to find kyle seraphim s-e-r-a-p-h-I-N. So that F in there is a PH. Kyle, you're a great American. I mean, just hearing your journey, what's happened to you, how you're still fighting, it's so inspirational. And Sean and I always talk about how one person standing up and being courageous like you gives courage to so many other people.

I'm sure that within the FBI, there are people who are heartened and getting courage from what you're doing. We hope that you continue to inform the public, but mostly keep informing the Congress because we do need to change this. Yeah, I'll keep doing both. And thanks to you, I now know I'm a domestic terrorist because I love the Latin mass. I love the Latin mass. I love the Latin mass. We are traditionalists. We go to both styles, but I am totally drawn to that liturgy. And what a shame that people in our government would in any way vilify it, but more importantly, that they would even infringe in any way, shape, or form in how we worship.

That is a huge topic. You brought it to light. You're a great American. Thank you, Kyle, for joining us. Thank you, Rachel. Thank you, Sean. That was fun. And also, you're 100% right.

We need to just keep doing the thing we're doing. Kyle Serafin, God bless, brother. Thank you. Thanks, y'all. Take care. All right, listen. By the way, I think what he just talked about is so important. And I'm grateful that you have FBI agents who are willing to step in and pass information to Kyle that he can then bust it out.

It's so important. And, again, I'm heartened that we still have good people in these agencies doing the good work because they're good Americans. And they're not loyal and have're not loyal and, uh, have fidelity to the Bureau. They're loyal and have fidelity to the constitution, which is, which is their 401k. I mean, listen, it's hard. I get it. You work your whole career and you have this 401k and you have, you know, your retirement and, and, and you have plans and you have kids. I get it. But at some point, you just have to have principals. And Kyle is a man with principals. Sean, I hope you pass this podcast off to a lot of your friends in

Congress. Make sure that they are reaching out to Kyle. Absolutely. So listen, if you like our podcast, you can rate, review, subscribe, wherever you get your podcasts. And if you want to listen ad-free with a Fox News Podcast Plus subscription on Apple Podcasts and Amazon Prime members, you can also listen to the show ad-free on the Amazon Music app. I read that so wonderfully. Yeah, come on, Sean. I can do better than that. Until next time, thank you for joining us. Bye, everybody.

Bye-bye. cut low on fox business is now on the go for podcast fans get key interviews with the biggest business newsmakers of the day the cut low podcast will be available on the go after the show every weekday at foxbusinesspodcasts.com or wherever you download your favorite podcasts