From the Kitchen Table: The Duffys - If Vice President Harris Has A Plan For America, Why Aren't We Seeing It?

Episode Date: August 22, 2024

The crowd at the Democratic National Convention this week is celebrating Vice President Kamala Harris embracing her new role as the Party's presidential nominee. . .but does nobody remember that Vice President Harris had a worse approval rating than President Biden a few months ago in many polls? And is nobody thinking about the fact that, if Vice President Harris had a grand plan to fix America, she could do something now? To discuss questions like these that have been at the top of many Americans' minds, the Duffys invite the First Lady's Former Press Secretary, Michael LaRosa to the kitchen table to share his unique POV and discuss why they believe Democratic enthusiasm is being driven by a new ticket, not Vice President Kamala Harris or her running mate, Minnesota Governor Tim Walz. Follow Sean & Rachel on X: @SeanDuffyWI & @RCamposDuffy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everyone, welcome to From the Kitchen Table. I'm Sean Duffy along with my co-host of the podcast, my partner in life and my wife, Rachel Campos Duffy. Hey Sean, it's great to be back at the kitchen table. And boy, the last time we had our guest today on things were looking very, very different in the Democratic on the Democratic ticket. So Joe Biden was still in office and then are still running for office in the twenty twenty four. And then there was a big political coup and he was basically unceremoniously thrown out of the off the ticket. And Kamala Harris was brought in. And so it's with great pleasure that we're bringing back to the kitchen table.

Michael LaRosa is a political adviser. He was a political adviser,, former press secretary for the first lady, Dr. Jill Biden. And we Michael, thanks for coming on. We grilled you big time on Jill. And we're going to tell you again, because we have so many questions because you're at the DNC right now. So why don't we start with just tell us what the energy level is there, because from over here, it doesn't look like it's as energetic as the Republican convention, but you're on the ground. So you tell me how it feels. Yeah, I'm obviously biased. But yeah, it is. I don't know, maybe it's the context of the last two years of the campaign or the pseudo campaign and then the heavy

shifts over the last month or specifically June and July, everything that took place, that's what has made sort of the excitement and the enthusiasm so palpable here and remarkable. And I think it must be just like the context of it all. Yes, it does feel very similar to 2008. I would say the difference is sort of like with Obama, Democrats were totally, you know, head over heels in love with Obama. I think Democrats are head over heels in love with the idea of a new ticket right now.

And that is what is sort of so powerful. You know, Michael, I couldn't agree with that because, again, with Joe Biden at the top of the ticket, everyone was trying to put a happy face on that campaign and on his cognitive ability. But Democrats understood it was an absolute disaster, which is why they orchestrated a coup. But I want to get to this, though. First of all, when you mentioned Obama, Obama ran after eight years of bush kamala harris is running after three and a half years of kamala and joe there's like you it's fun to be excited but when you're to blame for all the issues that

are being talked about on the stage and like you have solutions to fix the problems that the biden harris campaign created it really does become a head scratcher so she's going to fix the problems that the biden harris campaign created it really does become a head scratcher so she's going to fix the border she's going to fix the economy she's going to bring down inflation and if you could do that the question michael is well why in the hell wouldn't you do it right now and if you do want to do it now what are your ideas and who's stopping you is joe stopping you what's the what's the where's the break point on why you can't do it now? You have to wait till January 20th. So I think obviously Democrats would see to see things very, very differently.

You know, they they don't view the message is not going to change. They feel very comfortable with the record and the message of the last three and a half years. And she's going to run on a lot of the accomplishments, you know, the way Democrats view accomplishments. I'm not you know, I don't want to argue. I think that's fair like climate. I mean, if you love spending money on the Green New Deal or we call it the Green New Scam, I mean, you got to hand it to Joe Biden. And so our view is that on January 20th, 2021, we were we had 500000 deaths in America because of COVID. deaths in America because of COVID. We had, as Michelle Obama said last night, a president was sort of dispatched with relative ease because he choked on a crisis, which is the only test a president needs to meet, is that Americans expect you to meet the moment and

keep Americans safe and respond in times of crisis, not do the old Herbert Hoover, it's all up to you, individual responsibility. Our president didn't necessarily, part of the reason I believe that Biden was elected was because people were yearning for a sense of competence out of the chaos and darkness of the COVID year. And so for Democrats, we feel like they reopened the economy, they reopened businesses, they reopened daycares and schools. 73% were hybrid the day we were sworn into office. You know, this country has had a remarkable turnaround.

And so that is, there's problems, absolutely. Immigration, though, we don't feel like necessarily Donald Trump is the answer, because, as you know, his own Border Patrol director said, you know, we had a system wide emergency in 2019 with border crossings. I'm not going to deny that. I want you to know I love this conversation. I'm grateful that you're having with us. conversation that I'm grateful that you're having with us. Now, I couldn't disagree with you, I mean, more. I mean, on the border, not only does any fair person look at it and go, listen, of course, the border crossings were far less under Donald Trump than Kamala Harris. And we have terrorists coming to the country. But they started going up at the end of 2019 because Joe Biden was elected and said he was going to open it.

So people started coming right away. But I want to make an appointment with the economy, Michael, that you can address or not. You can keep going. I love the conversation. I love that you have a different opinion, and we'll go back and forth. But the economy was opening. America was growing. Inflation was still low.

People were going back to work. A vaccine had been through Operation Warp Speed, which I couldn't disagree more with the vaccine, but liberals love the vaccine. And Donald Trump's administration brought you the vaccine that you love. All those things were happening. And as things were starting to open up and the economy was growing, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris said, we want to spend, what, $1.7 trillion on the Recovery Act. Which, by the way, that went to a lot of people that are friends of Democrats.

And do you know who paid the price of that, Michael? Every average day American who now is dealing with hyperinflation because of all of the massive spending, the poor people are paying the price of inflation and the rich people got richer from this Recovery Act. And that's what I think that what is so frustrating is what you had at the end of Trump was remarkable. And, you know, to say that it was a disaster, it was not. Joe Biden saying we had high inflation when he took office. He said it was 8%. Well, no, it wasn't.

It was 1.4% when Trump left office in regard to inflation. So I don't like the misrepresentation of not necessarily you, but even Democrats of the facts of what the economy was and what the border was. Right. And I hear you. And our our point is that when we came in, it was I think we were at what, six point six percent unemployment or now under three percent that that the investment, the American Rescue Plan was a a major spending. Some think we needed even more. That probably may have contributed to inflation, probably. But in the wake of the worst crisis we have faced in a generation, just like 9-11, there's a lot of spending that goes on after when you're in a time of crisis. And we needed to spend a lot of money to get the country back on track.

And Sean, I would just say Donald Trump's own Federal Reserve chair has said it was necessary, that we are beyond where we were before the pandemic because of all that, that our job market is so strong. And he's Donald Trump's appointee. He's not a Democrat. And Larry Kudlow told us we should be bragging about the economy and the historic growth and historic financial impact. Wait, hold up. I don't mean to cut you off, Rachel. I just got back from a lunch with Larry Kudlow.

He was talking about, this was his speech. Yeah, but I was talking about, this was his speech. He was talking about the amazing growth under Trump. And you get growth from freedom and free enterprise and lower taxes, limited regulation, and limited government. That's how economies grow. And what his point is, you look at the tax increases that come from Democrats, and the price controls that are coming from Democrats, the attack on freedom coming from Democrats, those are anti-growth policies. And so everything, and I watch your show as well, and some of our listeners may also, he rails what the massive expansion of government,

the massive debt, the massive Democrat spending that's happened as an impact on economic growth. But his point, too, is, and you should all agree on this, the government doesn't create growth. It's the private sector that grows the economy, not government. And Democrats are looking to government to grow it. And Republicans say, let's look at the private sector to grow the economy. We'll be right back with much more after this. Fox News Radio on demand on the Fox News app. Download the app and just click listen. When you swipe left, you can listen to your favorite Fox News talk shows live. Swipe right for the

latest Fox News Radio newscasts on demand. Fox News Radio and the Fox News app. Download it today. So in the interest of trying to find things we all agree on, I'm going to bring this back just a little bit, because you said something at the start of the show, Michael, that Sean and I really agreed with, which is that the enthusiasm at the Democrat convention is sort of because they got a second. They feel like they got a second chance at winning because Joe Biden left. And so I thought it was interesting to play this clip from Jill Biden's speech. Here's how she explained it. Listen. And weeks ago, when I saw him dig deep into his soul and decide to no longer seek reelection and endorse Kamala Harris. OK, so I I listened to her entire speech and the biggest applause line was when she said that Joe Biden said he wasn't going to run again.

And that was the biggest applause line, which I thought was kind of hilarious. Because you know that this is so painful for Jill. So let's just get a little bit chatty here. I know you talked a lot of politics and economics with Sean. But I want to get down to the nitty gritty because no one knows Jill Biden more than you. At least nobody on my show has ever known Joe Biden as well as you. And so I have to ask you, what the hell is going on? Like, is she just losing her mind?

Is she depressed? Is she drowning in Chardonnay? What's happening? How angry is she? Because I have to say, Michael, I almost thought that he might use his speech to give the big middle finger to everybody and announce what really happened behind the scenes. She drinks Cabernet. Oh, Cabernet. Drowning in Cabernet. She was always very good about making sure I had my white Sauvignon Blanc from New Zealand on the sling. Michael, you deliver with catty. I love it, Rachel. Rachel loves your cattiness. All right, go, go. Let's go.

Okay. I think, look, Jill, again, think about it from her she's been they've been doing this for 50 years they she knew that they had a job to do this week and it was to get in there on monday do what they had to do take the photos with all the you know former the staff and and and uh the fundraisers the donors they were only there for about six hours, I think. Right. That's a lot. Yeah. And then and then they got out of town. They flew to California to go on a vacation. And I think that was part of it.

But I have a feeling. a few reporters at their hotel the other night and that uh i was surprised to hear about who from that side of the white house uh are starting to try to get her not side of the story out but her feelings about things and and that to me says uh that they know they have some sort of brand management to do around her, which I agree they do have to do. Go back to that. What's the brand management? Tell me what might be the reason why the brand is damaged? Is it that people think that she was cruel?

The elder abuse part? Or is it that people think she's bitter now? What's happening? No, I think it was, and we touched on this last time, but I think there's a lot of that Lady Macbeth stuff. That she was the one pushing him to do this, or that she liked the power, that she liked

staying in. Some of that stuff that and, you know, the really unfortunate timing of that Vogue, that that Vogue piece that came out in the middle of it. Yeah. Devastate all of it. And I think it created a character that to me, based based on knowing her is not true and and i think that they are starting to sort of uh tell a little bit about sort of what was going on behind the scenes and um i mean i've heard it from reporters at different mainstream legacy media outlets that there's some talking going on but i i i i bet i would bet with any amount of money that she's going to write another book and talk about a lot of this. I'm sure she's saving Do you think that she'll actually

let loose on this? That we'll hear, is it the Obamas? Was it Nancy? Who really stabbed the knife? I hope so. I hope she lets, I mean, she deserves to. She's been a spouse, political spouse since she was 24.

And I think she has a right to sort of talk about how she really feels. Whereas when she wrote the book last time, you know, I thought I think there was a little bit more caution in it because he was running. He was going to run again. So I hope she's very candid this time around. But whether that is how she feels about the relationship with Pelosi or the Obamas, or I would love to hear about how she feels about the relationship with some of the people who I believe really let them down over the course of running this campaign and managing his brand over the last two years. So, Michael, let's talk about letting people down, right? Because I would argue that Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, Jill Biden, the whole White House staff, they let America down because what they were seeing behind the scenes is what all of us saw on the debate stage.

And we at Fox and at other places, if you actually watched, you can see what was happening to him. And it wasn't it wasn't a big secret. He was declining. And I'm not I'm not happy about that just because I don't like his policies. I don't want to see the man, you know, have cognitive decline. But I wonder, does that affect the Democrat brand? The fact that Kamala and Jill, the staffers, the Obamas, you know, George Clooney, all of them knew that Joe Biden was having serious cognitive issues. And all of them are covering up for it. In essence, it was another lie that they told to the American people,

and now we all see the truth, right? We all go like, oh, yeah, I guess Joe is declining, and you were all trying to sell us a different story. There's no doubt that they – look, I think it's so complicated. It's not that simple, but I go back to two years ago when I was still there. And I don't know if I told you the story the last time we were in Boston and a very prominent donor, you know, basically said to her, you know, you guys, your family has made so many sacrifices for this country. You restored our faith and institutions and the rule of law and democracy, blah, blah, blah, all those things. And one part of democracy can be really passing the torch and opening up the democratic process of an open primary for that next generation.

And you don't have to do this, please. And basically he was saying, please ask him not to do this. And that was two years ago. And what I do think they're going to have to reckon for, Sean. Who was asking? Who was doing the asking? We were in a private donor meeting. Oh, so donors were asking, hey, can you get him to not do this?

So what I so the inside story that I have, it's not so inside. There are people that know Joe Biden's family, his sister and others, who were saying that they were mad at Jill for encouraging him to do it because the family, like his sister and others, were saying, it's obvious he can't do this and jill was pushing it um so it's yeah yeah and that night at dinner i just remember her being um you know we had to go do an event after that but she was the first her her first like i remember she was just she had a glass of wine there she hadn't even had a sip yet, but

she just put her hands in her head and she said, I just can't believe I didn't defend Joe. She didn't, she didn't, she didn't defend him. It's not that she didn't defend him, she just said thank you for speaking your piece and I'll take that back to him. Okay, so let me get a little catty with you here because I want to play a little bit of

Michelle Obama's speech for you. I'm going to say, okay, I'm going to say a couple catty things and I want to play a little bit of Michelle Obama's speech for you. I'm going to say a couple of catty things and I want to get your reaction. One, I don't like Michelle Obama. I think she's really disingenuous. But I'm going to say that woman knows how to deliver a speech. I don't think Jill delivers very well. And she has been in public life for 50 years. To me, it's shocking how badly she is in, you know, her public remarks are, dice, cuadre, remember that one?

And then she called Mexicans like me, Mexican-Americans, breakfast tacos. But she always has this very stilted, you know, way of delivering that it's just not good. And it's kind of shocking for how long she's been in office, how bad it is. You see Michelle Obama, she understands cadence. I didn't think anything was like it was no Gettysburg Address, but she knows how to deliver. She knows how to use her voice and sort of the power of her presence to make her point. Before I play the clip, because the clip is infuriating to me,

I want to get to this, because there is definitely bad blood between those two women. Right? I mean, let's just be honest. There is bad, bad blood. You dive right into the good stuff, don't you? I know! Okay, I will return to that real quick and yes there they are two completely different communicators jill's personality was never going to be the type that wanted to uh go dance on ellen or do late night talk show hosts or she didn't want to be a celebrity she didn't want to be involved in

the entertainment world and michelle's approach to some of that stuff was very different jill jill she has she was a campaign spouse but she was a campaign spouse in delaware for 50 most of the time and she campaigned for him but she was never giving dynamic speeches and when she did she was much better in small rooms and i think one of her superpowers, and I would, I would agree that she is not, she doesn't communicate the most, I guess. As well on the stump, right? Well, it's more like in the,

in the libraries and people's living rooms and the coffee shops, she's so warm and, and great because she does sound a little bit, has a Northeastern accent, which I always felt was like a little bit of, the fact that she's unpolished in a way, Rachel, I felt was part of her superpower because people thought it was very mom next door, very

my Italian aunt. A Philadelphia accent. I thought that was always an authenticity to her that I never wanted her to lose, that she wasn't as polished, that didn't make her sound lose, that she wasn't as polished, that didn't make her sound like a robot. That's just my opinion. It just sounds like she's reading a teleprompter. I'm like, come on. I mean, how many years does it take to figure this out? Okay, so let's get to the good stuff. I would just say real quick, in defense of her, she's never been comfortable at public speaking,

ever, ever. She's a teacher. She's different. I get that. It's not, it's not for everybody. I do think that she could get better at and, but, but I, I also think that, yeah, I mean, I think she. But no question, different styles for sure. Yeah. And I think she tried so hard to be Dr. Jill and like, she just, she just, it just seems like there was a bit of an insecurity about her own

intelligence that she had. And I think it got in the way of her, of herself. Misperception. Remember Mrs. Biden was his wife before her. And if there was an insecurity, maybe it had to do with, with that. And then she was Mrs. Then she became again, Mrs. Biden. You know what I mean? And you're so great. I love that. You're a great you are good. You are you are gracious and you're very nice about it. But let's get to the good stuff. How much do Michelle and Jill hate each other and why?

Well, I don't think they hate each other. I don't know how they feel personally towards each other i mean uh look uh families are complicated and the dynamics around families are complicated michelle was very uh close in age and very uh became close personal friends of their daughter their ex-daughter-in-law kathleen yep and michelle did not like the way that Kathleen was treated by the Bidens after the divorce. She was basically thrown overboard. And they were like, oh, we're so excited that Hunter's screwing his, you know, dead brother's widow. And they forgot about that woman and all of her kids who are their grandkids and the relationship with the kids is is seamless it's very different i mean as you saw you saw all

the kids there their grandkids and the the five of them both kids and hunter's kids are are could it be like more brother and sister club they're very, very close. And there's no there's no dynamic between the kids, each other or the grandparents. And they love those those grandchildren very much. And and I think that they've done a good job at being great grandparents. that at being great grandparents and the friction between the adults has sort of been, I didn't have exposure to it, but I understand what you're saying. And there is like uncomfortableness. I think you're saying the tension between Michelle and Jill is mostly around the fact that Michelle Obama is friends with Hunter's ex-wife with whom he had an affair with when he had an affair with the widow. They just basically at that point, you know, just said goodbye to this woman who had been very loyal to the family.

I think if you ask Jill, I don't know if it has to do exactly that. ask Jill. I don't know if it has to do exactly that. I think that that didn't help things as the relationship broke down. And and we would always see plenty of pictures with Kathleen Michelle. Michelle threw her 50th birthday party in Hawaii. But I think that the Biden family, the Biden grandparent or Jill and Joe, I think were I I think they felt, and I don't know if this is true or not, that it was, I think they blamed Kathleen for some of the family problems going public. If I have to be, I don't want to. I might go public if Sean did that to me too. Sean, what do you think?

I think it's fascinating, the interplay. And we all know it, and we're watching it kind of play out, not in full color, but we do pick up these little catty moments. Well, you saw the State of the Union, right? I mean, the Kenya State Dinner. He I'm sorry, the Kenya State Dinner. He basically did a drop by and she didn't come. And then he came for,

he left before dinner. Who left before? Explain that. Obama. And then, you know, they lived down the road. And he's from, you know, he's Kenyan heritage.

And they didn't come as a couple. He came by himself. And then he left before dinner. I mean. Oh, I didn't come as a couple he came by himself and then he left before dinner i mean oh i didn't know that see you came with more juice for me so you know what you know what well you know what can ruin the relationship is um a coup and so like when you plot a coup in that mansion with your husband barack obama and you out the Bidens, that's definitely going to put the final nail in the coffin of that relationship. But I want you to listen to to Michelle Obama at the convention. Listen, OK, anyone can succeed if given the opportunity.

She and my father didn't aspire to be wealthy. In fact, they were suspicious of folks who took more than they needed. They understood that it wasn't enough for their kids to thrive if everyone else around us was drowning. I don't know, Michael and Sean. I think it's really she's obviously playing the. By the way, this one, this didn't air everything I wanted to say. We're going to I'm going to we're going to replay that. I don't know if you can hear us. This is the one where she said they were suspicious of people who made more who took more than they than they need. who made more, who took more than they than they need. That's what she said after that line, that her mother and her father were suspicious of people who took more than they needed.

And Sean, I've talked about this before. considering that they have mansion in Hawaii, mansion in D.C., and a mansion of all places on Martha's Vineyard, which is the home of the rich white ladies who shoot off the illegal immigrants who landed there and sent them to Chicago, where they're drowning over there in all the problems from the open border. I mean, how do you explain this hypocrisy, Michael? Well, first of all, I've never been a fan, especially in the Democratic Party.

And Sean sort of mentioned this earlier of this class warfare stuff. I don't like the fact that we demonize rich people or demonize job creators. First of all, the Democrats wouldn't be able to win elections without Wall Street. They're the party of the rich. They know that. But it's just rich coming from the richest most, one of the richest ladies in America,

which is Michelle Obama. I think she gets like i just i'm gonna find the number but the number that she gets for speeches is but it was very different like her approach was again very different than than jill's jill did not want to be a celebrity or an entertainer and um or a producer or whatever she she had her own career that was self-rewarding and she didn't need to do any of that. Michelle and Barack Obama have done very well for themselves after he left office.

I think what she was trying to get at and I think what became, you know, Michelle Obama certainly did steal the show for the third convention in a row with some of those lines last night and really going after Trump for inheriting wealth, inheriting opportunity, even in the face of bankruptcies and defeats and failing forward, is how she put it. That kind of populist appeal is what she was going for. It worked in the room, right?

It's going to work with Democrats. She was, again, she delivered a masterful performance and really handed the red beat to the base. Yeah, no question about it. I was just trying to look up how much money Michelle Obama makes per speech. But it's in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, approaching a million almost. So it's just interesting to me. I just think you lose the ability to make that class warfare act. I know what you're saying. That world. I mean, she she vacations on yachts with billionaires and she lives a very privileged life. Like I said, she can live anywhere she wants and she's chosen to live on the rich white lady island of Martha's Vineyard.

Well, you see two different styles, right? People who are rich like Donald Trump don't hide it because most people aspire to be wealthy. Right. So Donald Trump is just who he is. And, you know, and you just, you know, accept it or not. J.D. Pritzker kind of did that last night or it was last night when he talked about he owned the fact that he was just a billionaire. Right. he owned the fact that he was just a billionaire, right? It's better to hear people talk about, at least acknowledge their own situations instead of, look, I understand what you're saying. And she was talking about how she grew up and didn't come from money or inherit wealth. And it's always hard to swallow when they are so wealthy now,

hearing the two messages in their biographies. I get it. I hear what you're saying. We'll have more of this conversation after this. All right, we're continuing here with Michael LaRosa. Now, Sean had to run to prep for a show. So I'm going to continue this conversation with Michael, which I'm so happy to do.

So here's what I want to ask you before we go. What has been fascinating to me in this whole coup, beyond the interpersonal stuff between the Bidens and the Obamas and who actually did it and all of that, is who is running the country? It's very clear, even from the speech that Joe Biden gave the other night at the DNC, that it's not him. He's checked out. He's out. And even the way they presented themselves at the DNC was as if they were not president and first lady. I mean, they are. I mean, Barack Obama looks more presidential and is treated more presidentially at that event than they were. They were given the worst speaking night. They kept them up till past 11 when no one was watching on the East Coast. It was really yet

another humiliation for the Bidens. And so the question is, who is running it? Who is running the country? And I have to believe that you've had to have had that thought, Michael. Is this country on autopilot? Is it just are we is every time we go to election, we the people, a government by and for the people, when we elect an executive, when we elect a president, is this a mirage? Is it really a cabal of people who are actually pulling the strings? And it doesn't matter who they put in as president?

These other people are actually running the place? So I've thought about this a lot. Not so much the direct question of like day to day running the White House. Yes, he is. He is. I think he plans to try to shore up his legacy by really trying to get a hostage deal and a deal over in the Middle East. But you're making a good point and a really sort of a macro level point that I've thought about throughout this whole thing. And it's political parties. Right. So we've always attacked Republicans. Well, I'm sorry. Always in the Trump era, we've sort of, you know, really attacked Republicans for being blinded by a cult of personality. And what happened a month ago was that the writing was on the wall

and we couldn't win. So we changed out one of our players. So you ignored all of your primary voters and you got it from the power. The power broker. But right. Right. The power broker term, the backroom deal, that all comes from political parties because political parties are constitutional entities. They're not meant to be small d democratic.

They're clubs that you join and leave or oppose or support and um they're not they don't have any legal authority they're run by we make changes to platforms and rules all the time i mean hillary clinton got more votes than barack obama in the 2008 primary but but can't become the nominee and know, half of the primaries were canceled because in election years where there's an incumbent running, you know, they don't, it's a lot of money to run elections. So they stop when the guy has all the delegates. But that's what parties are for. Their only purpose is to win elections. And so we tried to say, OK, we're not going to

make this about nancy pelosi or joe biden let's take emotion out of it let's just freaking win and if we have to change our quarterback mid midstream we're going to do it and that's you have to give nancy all the credit because um it was really her that was able to to corral the threat of public calls and sort of made it okay for this groundswell of public calls for him to exit the race. And it wasn't until that pressure was applied. I mean, people have been saying for two years, they don't like their choices. And so that's why I'm nervous about President Biden's legacy. If Harris doesn't win, you know, how do you not look to him for being responsible by dragging this out when they had two years to sort of put a campaign together and make this right. Like, Rachel, I got to tell you, I never in my wildest dreams thought he would step aside because I thought the window was permanently closed, at least after like last summer. I've never seen a party do this before. And it's not illegal. It's not.

before. And it's not illegal. It's not it. Parties are political operations. And she is a political leader. She stepped down from being speaker. She stepped away from power herself because she cares about beating Donald Trump. And, you know, you heard what she said the other day about Anita Dunn. She was like, I'm sorry, some people are upset, but the country loves it. And, you know, that's their problem, not mine. It's not personal. Who said that? Pelosi. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. She looks really guilty. Like, you know, like she swallowed the bird and like she's the feathers coming out of her mouth. And she's just trying to pretend like she didn't do it. And, you know, she's obviously I still think this was she didn't do it and you know she's obviously i still think this was all concocted by the obamas by valerie jarrett but they you know

obviously needed nancy to go and betray her friend and well it sounds like they were reporting that you know that there were misgivings from the obamas and it sounds certainly like that like like the b Biden's beliefs that there was something there. I don't know, but I don't know that it's wrong. I mean, I think everyone knows that the Obamas are pulling the string, that they're behind all of it, that they're the power brokers. Barack Obama famously said in an interview, if I could have a third term where I'm just behind the curtain and somebody else is doing all the other stuff, because I think the Obamas do are living their

best life, right? They're they're running. They're the power brokers, but they still get to go off, you know, to the French Riviera on yachts and they still get to go, you know, on all these fancy vacations and and live in these fancy mansions and not be tied down by the responsibilities and the boring events that come with doing, you know, the actual duty of the president. And so they kind of get all they're kind of eating their cake, getting their cake and eating it, too. Yeah, because they really really they really didn't. Yeah, you're right're right i think because they really didn't like the politics like they weren't known for like like

biden and clinton loved the glad handing and loved the actual politics of being the like somebody said to me once that um who worked for both obama and clinton was that bill clinton's problem was that he uh always needed to be the last person in the room because he thought he could persuade anybody of anything. Obama's problem was that he was the first one out of a room because he didn't care whether you agreed with him or not. He was like, you didn't agree. Okay, fine. I'm done with you. Or like we'll move on and try to find somebody else to support because you

didn't, you didn't agree with his, his way. Whereas Bill Clinton and I think biden liked the arc of politics and persuasion um but like there wasn't the obamas weren't known for like a lot of goodwill in the party like they didn't do the stuff that politicians like with uh like you know inviting members over to you know enjoy the perks of being in the majority things like that um that like the bidens and the the Clintons were always good at. They kind of kept to themselves in terms of like some of that stuff. But they have tremendous control over the party.

the Obamas, Valerie Jarrett, Susan Rice, Eric Holder, all these people that I think are the actual power brokers that are pulling all the strings and meeting in the mansion in Colorado, D.C. And they're the ones doing it. They have been trying to control this every which way. Yeah, beautiful, of course, leafy neighborhood. Nothing but the best for the Obamas. But Ivanka and Jared live there too. Who does?

Ivanka and Jared live there too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. Yes, they do. Or did. But I will say, yeah, and then they moved to Florida. So let me ask you this. So they've been trying to control everything, but they haven't controlled everything. And the one thing that they may not be able to control and they've tried is RFK Jr. Now, there is a lot of speculation that RFK Jr. is going to endorse Trump on Friday.

There's a lot of speculation around that. His vice presidential candidate for his ticket has said some fascinating things on podcasts over the last day about how much the Democrat party has tried to stop him from competing in that primary, how disgusted they are with the level of sort of political machinations that are being done, the lawfare being thrown at them, the dirty tricks being thrown at them, all stuff that, by the way, Donald Trump has had to deal with, too. And I think it's just gotten to the point where they're like, you know what, we can't win, but we can't let these guys win.

And so it looks like he's going to endorse Donald Trump. these guys win. And so it looks like he's going to endorse Donald Trump. If that were to happen from your own perspective as a as the political analyst, as an advisor, political advisor, how would that what kind of a wrench would that throw into this very, very orchestrated coup so far? Like how will that change the race? It's a great question. I have to be honest. I don't know. Now, him being in the race, if he manages to get like two or three percent, that's still a big deal for. Yeah, but I think he was drawing from Trump, too. So I don't know how. Yeah, I've been drawing more from Trump. It's always been something I've never been able to figure out. If he drops out, though, and he gets in and never been able to figure out if he drops out

though and he gets in and he and he endorses trump and he gets out of the race what does that do to democrats well i think it makes i think it makes it slightly more complicated uh in places like a pennsylvania and a um let's see like in ari Arizona where those third parties tend to really affect turnout or affect the result. I think Michigan and Wisconsin, too. You would know better about Wisconsin. I thought I thought like the Jill Stein and Gary Johnson vote totals were really impactful on Hillary losing those states, if I remember correctly. I just think that if you bring support with you, which, and that's what I can't accept, it's like, how loyal of a following does Bobby Kennedy Jr. have? And if he has a loyal following, then it's certainly going to help Trump in places like Pennsylvania and the blue wall states.

So that would be something that you know, that will probably, I imagine what they will try to do is really try to focus it in on Democrats on North Carolina and Georgia. If they, you know, I think that's what they're trying to do. They see a greater chance to pick those two up or, or pick North Carolina up or or pick north carolina up and keep georgia uh if if one of those blue wall states uh michigan wisconsin or pennsylvania were to fall but i think that's you know look it i don't know how to measure how much support by loyal support bobby kennedy has that would

transfer over um but he has to have some because he's been polling. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, exactly. Well, I just think I think that I mean, I have Democrat relatives who love RFK Jr. And if he endorsed Trump, I think that would make a difference. I think there's a lot of young people that sort of want to blow up the system. Right. This is right. Yes. And they probably some of them find, and I know them,

you know, they just kind of like RFK style better. Right, and I've never been convinced that the voter you're talking about right now, the young people who want to blow up the system, I don't know if they actually see Harris as somebody willing to do that, which is why I wasn't sure that support would transfer over to her just because Biden left. Right. In fact, I think it makes people more suspicious of her because she does seem like this, you know, fill in the blank.

Right. Yeah. Like you heard it. She was she was installed. There was a cabal that threw throughout Joe Biden. And so she seems like she's part of that system. And going back to our conversation, they don't like the party system that we were just I was just like trying to wrap my head around. Yeah. And they look at like what's happened to Donald Trump, all the lawfare, all the court cases, all the unfair media. lawfare, all the court cases, all the unfair media. And they can see that it's not just Trump imagining it. Now, RFK Jr. is coming and his vice presidential candidate are becoming more and more vocal and clear about that these same things have been happening to us. And I think it's a bad look for the Democrats. It certainly is a bad look for anyone who's looking for integrity and honesty and sort of transparency in elections. And it just

feels like a lot of machinations on the Democrat side and a lot of using government to squash your opponents as opposed to just having a fair fight and, and letting the voters, you know, decide at the ballot box. But we'll see. I mean, we'll see on Friday, this will be interesting if this happens. How are you feeling about the race now though? I mean, I did think this was a different race a month ago that it was probably, it was probably going to be a Trump win. I mean,

how do you feel about it now? Well, you know, right after Donald Trump was, you know, the potential, you know, he was he was he was shot in the head and he was almost assassinated. And the way he reacted, I just find it impossible for anyone not to be drawn to that level of courage. I've been shocked at how little the media has talked about it. I shouldn't be shocked. I've just been surprised that they have been able to just put that aside. I still have a lot of questions about how it happened and who's responsible beyond the shooter and what our government knows about the shooter, beyond what they told us. And if there had been, you know, what they knew, what they didn't know.

We're seeing information just this week that the person who actually shot the shooter was a local police and not a Secret Service. That's fascinating to me. So I just, I think that there's more that needs to be said. But to your question, I think that this is going to be a test of how powerful the propaganda machine is. I think there is no I don't think there's any organic support for her. I think, you know, that's obvious from her, her, her, you know, how poorly she performed in the primary, obvious from her, you know, how poorly she performed in the primary, how much she was considered a joke as a vice president, even by Democrats who were like, what do we do with Joe

Biden? We want to get rid of him. But who, you know, how do we deal with her? Because she certainly can't do it. I mean, that was the attitude. And so I think that was the Biden campaign. Some of that's the Biden campaign in the days after the debate. That's kind of what Anita Dunn's messaging was all about and privately to donors and then in their outreach to the media. And they got caught, I think, with that attitude. And the call and Harris knows it. But yes, you're right. But there's a propaganda machine. There's this whole like social media brats thing going on. It's so superficial. There's so much. And I think she's an attractive candidate. I think she's physically attractive. I think she she does exude, you know, like happy warrior vibes.

I'm not going to lie. She does. But it's also fake and superficial. and so much of it is propped up by the media and the media's complicity in not getting her to actually speak and tell what she believes and explain her flip-flops on fracking or what she means by price controls. There's just so much that hasn't been said or she hasn't had to respond to

and it just is so unfair. If you said or she hasn't had to respond to. And it just is so unfair. If you're Donald Trump, you got to look at this and go, this is I mean, how much more unfairness can this guy deal with? I mean, he gets out and does all, you know, no holds barred interviews. Ask me anything you want, hour long, whatever you need. whatever you need. And like the media is totally fine with a social media campaign that's totally scripted, totally controlled by the by the Harris campaign. So I guess we're going to see whether you can actually pull this off. And if that's true, then we're truly living in 1984. You know, like this is truly like a fake democracy. And I'll join the Democrats in saying it's a threat. This whole thing is a threat to democracy because I can't believe that you could get through something as grueling as a presidential campaign should be for a candidate in terms of having to explain their positions. You can get through it without saying anything with 90 seconds on a

tarmac, without doing debates, with just TikTok videos and celebrity endorsements and teleprompters. I mean, we're all screwed. Don't you agree, Michael? I mean, can we at least agree on that? Yes. I mean, I don't want to say yes to all of the arguments you just made, and I understand why you're making them. And you've held to the same. I am struggling. Donald Trump in terms of explaining who she is and what she stands for. I am struggling deeply with my party's aversion to the the media, because that is the way that voters like absorb information um and learn about the candidates and their positions because the media is supposed to be a steward of of the people and holding them accountable right so it's hard not to give donald credit donald trump credit for going

out there and making himself accountable by answering questions, even from MSNBC reporters in these press conferences. And my party will be very angry to hear me say that. But like, that doesn't mean he shouldn't be held accountable for what he says, but he is making himself accountable by just giving the press the opportunity. And my party has developed a really unhealthy aversion for a party that talks about the threats to democracy you know the free press is probably like one of the major tenants of democracy and the biden campaign and the biden you know anita dunn her strategy was to demonize and bully and threaten and ignore the press. And it did not help Biden.

I feel very protective and defensive that they, it was ultimately the people around Biden and their relationship with the media that really brought him down those last few weeks. They didn't, I mean, who would wait eight days in a crisis to respond, to do an interview? Eight days when your candidacy is on life support, and you

give George Stephanopoulos a 20-minute interview on a Friday night, eight days later, you're not providing any reassurance to members of Congress or your own voters because they have such a hatred for the legacy media. And it's really unhealthy because the media should be an opportunity, not a hazard. And Trump treats it like an opportunity.

Could it be that the media got the memo from the Obama camp. I'm not saying a physical memo, but the understanding like we this did not work out. We gave him a chance at the this debate, holding a debate early. He failed miserably. We got to get him out ASAP. And the media was basically, you know, had had their knives out for him. They were ready to help Barack Obama get rid of him. And that's what they did. I mean, that's the only time between the debate and Kamala being stalled is the only period of time that the media was actually. And and that's my advice to the Kamala people is that, okay, I get it. You are in the driver's seat right now. They love her.

Neither candidates play error-free baseball. Let's just be honest. She's going to need the media at some point. Or she's going to need them to give them the benefit of the doubt. So when she does have a bad day, when she does make mistakes, or when there are bombshell stories that they have earned that investment in trust and a relationship.

But they're in bed with that campaign. Isn't that so obvious to you? Well, I look, as Barack Obama said, everybody loves that shiny new car smell. Right. And right now we are in that stage and we'll see. We'll see how long they can go without engaging. Early voting starts, by the way, in, I think, a week and a half or two. I know. Oh, I know. Oh, I completely agree. This is this. That's why the Biden campaign was really running out of runway that to change perceptions. The media is looking at being replaced by social media, by TikTok, by campaign TikTok. Yes, it is a problem because there are so many ways to control what you put out to the public,

right, through all these other avenues to go around the media. But a really pro-democratic stance, small d democratic position would be to allow yourself to be opened up to questions because it's now, because you're holding yourself accountable to the public whose trust you want to earn. Right. So I don't like the version. I think it's very unhealthy.

What my, what has been going on with the legacy media and our, my party. I'm like, I've been very public about how I did not like the way they ignored the media. And that. And you think it'll come back and bite them in the butt in the end. I think if you don't, if you, you one, ignore the media and listen, the biggest problem I noticed from the Biden world when I got there in 2019 is that and it was consistent till up until he stepped aside. They thought the press needed them more than they needed the press.

They never figured it out They never figured it out. Never figured it out. And it was, you're right, the press, ultimately, they put their foot on the gas after that debate, and they didn't take it off. They got their orders. In your view, it came too late, and that they were were you probably believe they were complicit and then yeah it appeared to me like they were helping obama well and george clooney you know orchestrate this coup and they and they needed the press they needed the press to do it and the press was more than willing to take those again i don't think there was a memo written to them i'm not that stupid but there were there was enough signaling to go all

right let the dogs go after the bidens and they did and then it didn't take very long for him and and jill to step down i think because they may you know because the the white house had spent and the campaign had spent a year and a half two years saying don't believe your lying eyes don't believe the polls he's not trump's not winning don't don't believe your lying eyes. Don't believe the polls. He's not Trump's not winning. Don't don't believe inflation prices are your prices. The economy is fine. Bidenomics is working. Don't and don't believe the age stories. Let's attack the Wall Street Journal and The New York Times for just doing reporting. Let's attack the media. And then they made everybody look like idiots or at least they made their they made democrats who were defending them and attacking the media for them

look like idiots after that debate they did they put they put people like me in a position because you were attacking you know jill years ago for hiding stuff like this and so now i have to say it puts me in a position to say was was rachel right the whole time well you would know you were around michael you saw that he wasn't he wasn't all there i know you spent more time with jill but it was pretty obvious from the get-go i thought even from the campaign and in 2020 when they had him in the basement, it seemed pretty obvious to me that he was not all there. It wasn't my experience, but we

talked about that before, and it just wasn't. But I'm in no position to really argue the case anymore after the debate, right? To be fair, maybe it was just a few signs. But as the as the years went on, it definitely got more and more obvious.

And yeah. Yep. I haven't been there. So I don't know what was going on. Yeah, that's and that's fair. You you you you left probably when when the decline really accelerated. And that's fair, too. I mean, I really always appreciate you coming on. I'm sorry we lost Sean tech-wise. We're at different locations, which always makes it really hard when we do these. So I just love talking to you because I feel like you really do try your best to tell the truth. And Sean and you obviously had a really good spirited debate at the beginning about how you guys as Democrats see it and how, you know. I wanted to get his his take on the whole party thing and what we were talking about with the coup and and Pelosi and whether parties should be much more transactional and less personal about these things.

I would love to hear his thoughts, too. We'll have to we'll have to do this again. We love having you on here. Anytime. There's a lot of there's this again. We love having you on here. Anytime. There's a lot of campaign and twists and turns left. Oh, I agree with you on that, Michael. I think this is not the end. Oh, no. I think there's going to be a September surprise, an October surprise, maybe even a November surprise.

I definitely think that's going to happen. You're absolutely right. I definitely think that's going to happen. You're absolutely right. This is the most remarkable, unbelievable, you know, assassination attempts, coups, you name it. It's just there's just no end. I think it's going to be we're all going to be so exhausted at the end of this election. Right. I think that's right. I think. Yeah. And there's just I think there's just a lot left. We don't know about how this race is going to fall into place. And everybody has to be pragmatic. Everybody's exuberant right now in my party. And that's great.

We needed that. But we've got to be pragmatic and focused on our vulnerabilities as well. Fail to plan, plan to fail. I'm going to tell you this, Michael. And I want you to give this message to Jill. I don't usually ever buy these political biographies, but I will buy Jill's book if she tells all. I hope so. I don't know what really happened. I mean, I hope she lets it rip.

She owes it to herself. You know? Agreed. Agreed. I love it. Great having you on, Michael. Thanks for joining us. Of course. Anytime. Thanks, Rachel. You love it. Great having you on Michael. Thanks for joining us. Of course. Anytime. Thanks, Rachel. You got it. Take care.

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