From the Kitchen Table: The Duffys - Janine Turner & The Pivot Principle

Episode Date: November 10, 2023

What are your pivot principles? How do you find joy amid despair? Sean & Rachel are joined by Actress and playwright, Janine Turner as she reveals how she actively seeks out moments of stillness during uncertainty and chaos. Plus, they dissect the toxic role of social media on our emotional and mental well-being. Follow Sean & Rachel on Twitter: @SeanDuffyWI & @RCamposDuffy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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BetMGM.com for terms and conditions. Must be 19 years of age or older to wager. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Hey, everyone, welcome to from the kitchen table. I'm Sean Duffy along with my co host for the podcast, my partner in life and my wife, Rachel Campos Duffy. Sean, it's great to be back at the kitchen table.

And today, you know, the news has been so heavy. And it's been kind of depressing. And I thought, I have the perfect guest. Someone who's going to lift us up. Someone who's going to lift us up because she has a new book about that topic. But let me just first introduce her. We are going to be joined by actress and author. You might know her from Northern Exposure. She had a role on dallas

um but she starred with anthony hopkins and solace she's also been on friday night life i think on a third third um third season of it which i love that series as well um it's janine turner and she's here with her book um the pivot in Despair. Janine, welcome to the kitchen table. So wonderful to be here. And I saw y'all briefly earlier. It's just great to see the two of you. What an amazing, uplifting example the two of you are with your faith and your commitment to one another and your beautiful family. It's a real joy to be with you this morning. So we're going to just let everyone know right off the bat that we have known Janine for a long time because we have. And actually, Janine doesn't even realize what an impact she has had

on our family's life and specifically on the life of our daughter, Avita, who comes often onto this podcast, who writes for The Federalist. When Avita was only like 11 or 12 years old, she entered a seven or eight. Was she even? Yeah, you're right. You're right years old she entered it was like seven or eight was she even was she yeah you're right you're right she was she was like maybe nine ten ten it was 2010 yeah so she could have been 11 she's 11 11 i was closer we get all their birthdays wrong there's so many a lot of children so so janine started an organization. She was the founder and the chair of Constituting America, co-chair of Constituting America.

And this was an organization that, by the way, you hit the nail on the head very early on of what the problem in America was. And that was that we weren't teaching our kids about the Constitution about our founding fathers you started this organization years and years ago to educate children about the uh the constitution and our founding fathers evita entered an art contest and she won and you and we were living in little rural wisconsin at the time actually wisconsin at the time and and and janine and kathy gpie, who co-chaired this organization, actually came to our hometown to sort of give her this award. And they were part of this video that they were making. And I'm telling you, Janine, that experience, experience of trying to do something that was based on our Constitution and winning had a huge impact on her life. Oh, I'm so glad to hear that. That's the purpose. The purpose of our foundation is to uplift children and have them feel proud about their calling in life or a career, whatever their

talents are. And of course, Evita is a fabulous artist. But also to couple that with the constitution and country. So to combine the career and the craft and the talent with love of country and to imbue those two things together and carry it with them through life. And oh my gosh, what a doll Evita Duffy is. And when we met, I met you, Rachel, you were there and we recorded her and we have a little video and we still show it. It's like what, 13, 14 years later, we still show this video to the students in the classroom of Evita saying, I'm Evita Duffy. And she shows, you know, she talks about her artwork and how she won. And I'm very happy to hear that this inspired her.

But look, she has the two of you to inspire her as well. And she is also just a phenomenal young woman, as is Jack, who also won the contest. He did. Young Matt. He did as well. I can still remember Evita and Jack, you know, drawing. And I remember Evita probably drew and redrew what she ended up turning in. So many drafts. She was so into it. And then to see that hard work pay off and same for Jack.

I think that experience of doing something, it's just super formative. But Janine, you were ahead of your time. I think so many people talk about what's happening in America today. I'm going to get your book in a second, but things are devolving, falling apart. The norms, the morals by which we once lived have been falling away so rapidly. And I think you must've seen that back in 2010, 2009 and said, you know, I think it's important that our kids understand the constitution,

understand the importance of what our founders gave us in that document. And you had an idea with Kathy Gillespie to go, we want to inspire young kids to learn about it, to understand it, to be involved with it, to make it real, you know, today, as opposed to 240 years ago. How did it come to be that you were like, you know what, we're going to launch this organization for kids in the Constitution? I think it's an innate love of country. And, you know, my father was a graduate of the United States Military Academy at West Point. So he was a West Pointer. And I was raised with, he flew the B-58 Hustler, which was a nuclear bomb aircraft. And his mission was to drop, you know, if the Cold War, you know, if the cold war developed was to go to Russia,

drop the bomb and he wouldn't make it home because they couldn't refuel that particular plane. So, you know, I was raised with jets over my head as an air force. Back then it was the air force army when he graduated. And, but also I had a wonderful fifth grade teacher at at eagle mountain elementary in fort worth texas north fort worth texas with cows in the playground do you know what i mean and he it was his first year of teaching and he spent the entire year doing kind of exactly what we're doing combining the arts with history and with with uh you know government and we rehearsed the entire year the

play 1776 and i I was Martha Jefferson. And my really good friend, Phil Taylor, who's a judge actually for the artwork department, he was in my class and he and I still talk about this experience. 30, what, 30, 40 years later, we still talk about it. And we spent the entire year rehearsing the play and then we put on the play at the end of the year. And then we went on a field trip and saw 1776. But even before that, sometimes I think God taps you on the shoulder and gives you a little mission in life. I remember when I was eight years old, before fifth grade, I looked up at my father and said, Dad, if our founding fathers were to come back today, what would they be most disappointed about?

I mean, sort of like what eight-year-old asked that question. what would they be most disappointed about? I mean, sort of like what eight-year-old asked that question. By the way, my father thought about it for a minute, and he said, he's a very quiet man. You know, he thought about it, and he looked down at me, and he said, taxes. He's truly in the revolutionary spirit with that.

You know what? It's so funny that you did this in fifth grade, and then you went to see 1776 that is a field trip that would only happen in classical academies today um classical schools in america those things are just not celebrated it's not happening and it's just it breaks my heart to to to know that we're these kids are they're kids are just not getting the same stuff we got. Well, first of all, you know, we have to get them off the cell phones and get the earplugs out of their ears, you know, whatever they're called. You know, I'm 60. It's like earplugs, I call them.

Headphones, whatever they are in their ears. AirPods. They have to put that down in the classroom. They've got to show up to the classroom. I've given over, you know, about 600 speeches to students in the classroom. They've got to show up to the classroom. I've given over about 600 speeches to students in the classroom. But also what I think is super important and one of the things I try to do with the students when I speak with them in the classroom is, and sometimes it's in person, sometimes it's via Zoom, but this is a free service we offer through Constituting

America, but is to say, this is why it matters. This is why it matters. Instead of just giving a worksheet and say, okay, a bill goes through Congress, da-da-da-da, then it goes to the president. This is how it works for the students to understand that, no, it's a government that governs by our consent and the Declaration of Independence, which is a golden apple, according to Abraham Lincoln,

and then the frame that protects that apple is the Constitution, which says, we the people. It doesn't say it doesn't say we the government we the state it says we the people so i want i try to have the students really understand that they are important in this process and they can use in that and the checks and balances are important that government doesn't become too powerful and also to realize that there are a billion plus people all across the world that still don't have these rights that we want. So it's explained to the students why it matters. Just like we did a study, a 90 day study at Constituting America that was kind of my brainchild, that it was to really explain why America is exceptional.

Because it's like we throw that and toss that around and there's, you know, 40 percent of the country says no, it's not. But he's like, well, how and why are we exceptional? So we walked through, you know, how the Constitution has prevented us from falling. And we walked and started with Greece and Rome and the Venice Republic and walked all the way through, you know, the Civil War and World War One and World War Two and Stalin and Mao and how the Constitution's continue to protect us. So I think instead of just getting a worksheet in the classroom, this is how the government works. Students really need to understand, and adults too, that it's us. They govern by our consent. And then also just to understand why it matters and how to utilize the government. And then I think students feel empowered. You know, Janine, that's such an important point because if you don't teach your kids the importance of the rights that they have,

why they actually have these rights, how do they come into being, why did the founders give them to us in the founding documents, you don't really care so much to give them up. And if you start to lose them, you don't realize you're losing anything because you don't understand how significant those rights are. And what troubles me today is it seems like there's this new dynamic that the people serve the government, the government doesn't serve the people, which is why you can have an FBI and a DOJ or the CIA target a president who won an election, or they can target just average Americans for voicing their opinions that are guaranteed to have the right to speak their minds through the First Amendment of the constitution they're targeted because they are exercising those rights and that's what troubles me today is we've fallen so far away from the ideas that our founders had but the ideas that you're talking about in the classroom around america or that they don't realize kids don't even know that

our rights come from god which is the way our founders set it up so then they're not no one can take them away no one should be able to take them away during covet i mean we talk about this a lot i thought i think the universities were some of the most communist places to be during covid i mean they they didn't let you know kids you know go to class to classes or register or get wi-fi if they weren't vaccinated and it was they created an apartheid system for the vaccinated and unvaccinated. They did so many unconstitutional things on campus that were even worse than what we experience in the general public. And the kids just kind of went along with it.

There were very few dissenters. My daughter was one of them at the University of Chicago, but she was a total outcast for trying to defend her own rights and bodily autonomy while on campus. Speaking of daughters, I do want to mention that you have an amazing daughter yourself, and she's at Harvard Law. Is she studying constitutional law? Well, I don't think that's her focus per se. I don't know, you know? She spends more time talking to me about her social life than about the law. And I'm really actually very interested in the law.

She's engaged now. But it's funny because I still, you know, I've written a musical and the arts is still very important to me. I said, Julie, it's really interesting that you didn't follow in the footsteps of the movie industry, though. Who would really want that? And she says, Mom, are you kidding? On the way to ballet class, you would have me read the Federalist Papers out loud. You did it. But the good news from my perspective is, and actually there are quite a few elements of Harvard Law that are conservative. It's considered one of the more conservative Ivy League law schools. And she has found more conservatives and Christians that support her beliefs in the federal society. She has a position in the federal society at Harvard Law than she did at Rice in

Texas. So she really has more friends, more people that think the way she does at Harvard Law, which is really surprising. People wouldn't think that. Well, that's very heartening for sure. So speaking of heartening, talk about your book, because I do think a lot of people are feeling despair for all the reasons we just talked about on the podcast. Every time they turn their TV on, every time, you know, they see what, you know, social media feed is coming through to their kids and all these things that we can't seem to control. And I think a lot of people are feeling despair and your book called The Pivot Principle, Finding Joy in Despair, couldn't come at a better time. So talk to me about why you wrote the book and what people can learn about how to deal with their own despair in their life.

Well, one of the pivot principles is love and service. And so I really compiled this book to be of service because it's sort of just, I don't know, the kernel of this kind of how I operate. Okay, I've gone through this difficult time. I survived it. Now, how can I share and be a steward of my wound, so to speak, and reach out and help others with it? I think that's a foundation of my faith and everything. So when I first wrote the book, it wasn't with the intention of writing a book. I was just trying to survive my own kind of, what would you say, gap years of loneliness. And then COVID came in the middle of that. And my daughter went off to Chicago during COVID, and I was alone on this, this ranch, but also sort of when she went to college, you put all these years into your children. Well, it might, for the two of us, I was a single mom because her dad just never came around.

And so, which was the greatest gift in the world. And we were so incredibly close and then she goes to college. So, you know, you think you're fine. You're going along like a cool, you know, I'm working, everything's good. And then, I don't know, I was sort of hit with a whammy around those COVID years. And so I was, I was dealing with a lot of I sort of had linear trauma in my life through various, for various reasons. And boy, that's, it's really interesting when you're alone and you're in that echo chamber of

your own subconscious and these things are, you know, I hate to say it, but they really kind of are triggered, you know. And so I had to learn how to walk through panic attacks and anxiety attacks. And I really wanted to understand what was happening. And I've learned that the amygdala, which is one of the emotional, you know, primal reptilian aspects of the brain, when you have trauma that you may not even realize you've had, triggered by something that's happening currently in your life, you kind of have stereo trauma, that reptilian brain is triggered. And what happens when they've realized in MRIs is that the amygdala sort of lights up, which is the reptilian, which is the fight, flight, freeze, or fawn. It's sort of, I just need to survive this, but everything else in the brain goes dark. So it's really hard to cope in those moments.

So one of the things that I've done through poetry and writing and all the skills that I've learned that I share in this book is just sort of the basic knowledge as well as how to get out of that, how to turn that light bulb back on, you know, the logic in your brain back on. And to realize that when, because I think that there are so many Americans that are dealing with loneliness, with despair, with depression. And to say, you know, it's okay. If you can just understand to me, if I can understand what's happening, then I kind of have a logic around it and I can get through it.

And also just to not give up before the miracle. I've been on the edge many times feeling so sad and so lonely. And so that I, but to just say tomorrow's a new day and don't give up before the miracle. We'll be right back with much more after this. I'm Ben Domenech, Fox news contributor, editor at large of the spectator and editor of the Transom.com daily newsletter.

I'm inviting you to join in-depth conversations every week on the Ben Domenech Podcast. Listen and follow now at foxnewspodcast.com. You know, Jeanine, there are so many people who feel despair in their lives and loneliness and sadness. And I think a lot of it comes from this, and the younger people as well, this new addiction to the phones that connect us in such a profound way, but leave us all so lonely, whether it's on social media. And so as someone might be going through those moments of really tough times, what advice do you have to go, you know what, this is what you can do to help you see that light, to see your pathway through darkness into happiness and light again. One of the things is turn the phone off. I mean, don't go to social media. Social media can even make me depressed, right? I go and look, oh my God, you know, my life is just such a failure. Look at everybody else having that

great day. And the irony is they might be having a great moment and then their whole day may fall apart. But we don't know that. And I think that social media can be really troubling. But in my pivot principles, one of the things I did is I took the pain that I was feeling and immediately for survival just wrote it down. And I hear music, you know, poetry in my head. I've always been a poet since I was young. So I kind of put it down. And I didn't care. And I hear music and poetry in my head. I've always been a poet since I was young. So I kind of put it to, and then, and then it became when I, I didn't even worry if the words were good or if they, if it made any sense, I just wrote. So it doesn't matter if you're a good writer or not. But what happened for me is that with the poetry, it sort of then

became like a crossword puzzle, like, oh, how does this word, and I need to rhyme this word. And then before I knew it, I was focused in that, and I was turning the logic back on in my brain. So one of my pivot principles is to actually pick up the pen, because you can write anything down, you can tear the letter up later, but that's one of the survival tools, as well as other things I talk about, like intuition, which is a form of sort of connecting to God and listening to yourself. Turn everything off. Listen to yourself. Higher power.

Where would we be without God? And I have some other things like nature, history. History is really cool. Actually, it could be a hobby, whatever your hobby may be. But just to take the history and learn about your genetics, learn about your family, That can be fun. So it's things of that nature that really helped me get out of it. But the poetry was my, it's a lot of poetries in the book because poetry, and I'll stop talking, but poetry is so cool because you can read it and go, oh, someone else feels how I feel. And you can imbue whatever you want into it. So I have despairing poetries, a pivot principle, how to get out of that despair and then joyous poet poems.

Yeah. You know, I'm a writer at heart, so that is very appealing to me. I'm not, not so much poetry, but just the idea of getting your feelings out and in onto paper. And I think that that's, that's a really powerful way to sort of let it, let it out. So it's not sort of boiling up inside of us. I think that's very true. And I do, did COVID, I mean, COVID has done something like to the whole country, I think. And I don't think everybody is even, I don't think we're even close to processing what those two years did, not just cognitively to kids and special needs kids, but I just mean kind of what you're talking about. Like psychologically, it was a weird, it was a psyop for one, but it was also

so lonely for so many people, especially the elderly and people who couldn't, you know, find their way out. I just think it was, we're still processing it, don't you think? I just think it was, we're still processing it. Don't you think? Absolutely. I think that it was, I just think loneliness was at the core of it. And it's one of my points is loneliness lingers everywhere, which actually the Kirkus Review thought was one of my best, best points. But it's just, we are still processing it.

It just, we were all in the echo of our subconscious. And sometimes some families, you know, the kids came home and that was great. You were with family. But for a lot of us, it was a rather lonely time. In a way, Zoom is good. In a way, you know, these podcasts, the way that we continue to learn to connect, but nothing beats actually meeting with a person face to face, actually turning all everyone has this pocket of the day when they sort of feel not their happiest part of their day. Some people say end of the day. And for me, it's the beginning of the day. So I used to always read devotions and I thought, you know, I just need to do something else. I learned this through my church, but I started a prayer group, not a Bible study group, just prayer. And you get on, we get,

I get everybody together via Zoom or connect via the phone and five deep breaths to just kind of center, read Bible verses. And then we all just pray when the Lord moves us to pray. And it's for 30 minutes only. There's no crosstalk. No one has to be worried about being trapped on a phone call and you just pray and then you get off exactly in 30 minutes. And it has revolutionized my life because it doesn't mean everything's hunky dory all the time, but I mean, it's revolutionized my life because I've realized what it means when Jesus said two and two or more gathered on in the midst of them. I thought, well, wait a minute, aren't you with me? If I'm alone too, but what I realized is when two or more gathered,, I'm in the midst of them. I thought, well, wait a minute. Aren't you with me if I'm alone too? But what I realized is when two or more are gathered, the Lord speaks through us to each other.

That's fascinating. Janine, you bring up an interesting point because so often social media is disconnecting and lonely. But this is a way through Zoom where you're actually engaging on a very personal level with people. I imagine you can see each other, at least hear each other. And it's an organic prayer session, which I think is really, really cool. Rachel and I did a podcast. It must have been a couple of years ago where we were talking about with this expert who's written several books about depression.

And he was talking about the act, you mentioned nature, but the act of gardening and what that does for depression. Also, to your point of connectivity, actually seeing someone in person, having a cup of coffee or a glass of wine or a conversation or a walk with someone does leaps and bounds for people's psyche. And as a culture, as human beings, we used to do this all the time. People sat on their front porches and they would walk up and down the street and they would see each other and they would tell stories. And it's very part of the human experience. And over the last 10, 15 years, we've gotten so far away from that. And the net end result is loneliness.

And so if we go back to these core human principles of faith, of nature, and connecting with other people, which can be hard sometimes. And it was hard during COVID, as you and Rachel are talking about. sometimes it's putting yourself out there to have that relationship to have that uh the the connection with someone for a cup of coffee or a phone call or a zoom call or a walk does so much and i think so often people want to become isolated in their homes and on social media and i don't think there's even the understanding of what that does to their mental state sean we don't even design our communities for that kind of interaction if If you think about it, the way towns were designed in the past, you would walk past, you know, there was, you'd walk places or there were porches that you walk by people's homes and they were sitting on their porches. You know, we don't even design our communities to have that kind of interaction.

So then, which we should think about why we don't do that. We should go back to that. But actually, we have to be much more intentional, which is, I think, your point, Janine, right? That we have to be more intentional about that human contact. You know, it's funny what you say about houses. Houses aren't even designed with front porches anymore. I know. People used to have front porches and they go sit on the front portion inner to interact with people is absolutely pivotal for sanity you know what i mean and and we've all sit home and we don't even go to the movies really anymore we sit at home and watch netflix and it's just easy and people sit together but but there's a one there's a wonderful book that you know i'm not endorsing this book i haven't i've read the first part of it not all of it but it talks about the body keeps the score

and you have to be able to get it out. And whether it's on paper, I mean, I could talk about gardening. They talk about the arts or just drawing anything, coloring. It was taking a walk, all the things that you talked about, just to find a hobby. And you know what I think about, Rachel and Sean? I think about you and I, you and I remember these days. Do you remember the day where you just awaken and you just are happy to be amongst, to go to school or to go to work and the sky is blue and you're happy. Now we awaken like Atlas, you know, with this weight on

us of all the problems of the world. You know, our children think the skies, you know, the whole, the environment's going to crave, you know, the whole earth's going to explode in a year. I mean, there are just too many troubles. I heard someone speak once, that was really true. We used to worry only about our tribe. You know, we had, like Jesus says, the day carries enough troubles for our own little community. And now we're carrying the community, the troubles of the entire world. And I talk about that in my book, that we can't fix that. There's nothing we can do about it. So we walk around with this, whoa, like out of a Just Diaspora novel, right? It's like, oh my God, it's all so heavy. How can I get through this? So it's finding a way to, I don't know, disconnect from all of it in a

way. But I miss those days where I just wake up and I don't have something really terrible to worry about. You know, we've been talking about this on the podcast as well, Janine, that our bodies, our minds, we're not wired or made to about all the problems in the world, everything going on in the Middle East, everything going on, you know, in the world, the fact that we're almost on the brink of World War III, it can be, again, it can give you despair. It's daunting. And the only way to handle it for me is when I feel that way, like, and there are days that I wake up and I feel really anxious about what's going on in the world and hopeless that we can actually change anything here, then I have to go smaller and go, okay, what can I actually affect change? And the only thing we can do is our family, is our, you know, our relationships, our kids, you know, Sean, and our friends. And that is the community that we have to build. It could be a church community, it could be a, you know sean and and and our friends and that is the community that we have to build it could

be a church community could be a um you know a school community a family these are the things we have to focus on because i think it's just too overwhelming you are exactly right and it is so overwhelming and i think about prayer too when i become so overwhelmed i just start to pray and trying to say you know jesus, God, Holy Spirit, I give this to you because you can do so much more than I can do and guide me how you want me to be of service in this situation. And that's one of the reasons I put together this book is to have people try to find some hope, you know, joy through the despair. It's not black and white. It's like life is difficult, but there's joy in it.

But I pray to God and say, what's my purpose? And I think that's what's sort of missing in this me, this me-ness that's sort of happening around the rising generation. It's like me, me, me, me, me, me. But we really need to be focused on higher power. And I think that with faith is incredibly, incredibly a touchstone to, to, to, to not only to get through life, but to realize that there's a purpose in my life beyond, beyond just me. Well, who am I? What, what am I? I guess, guess what a purpose everybody needs a purpose. You know, I, I tell it this way, having my industry has been all about beauty and I learned a very long time ago that the thinner I

tried to get or the most perfect, the more perfect I tried to look, the more frustrated I became because it was never going to happen. Um, and I had to learn that it's really a spiritual job. It's an inside job. Um, and I need to just turn it over to God and, and let him guide me as to, to why I'm here because the spirit is everlasting. And if you ever think about the spirit, we age for the spirit. Our spirits inside always kind of seem young. Well, that's that eternal timelessness of our spirit. So we're here just to serve a purpose.

And it may just be in our community. It doesn't have to be worldwide. But it gets us beyond just thinking about what the world owes me, what government owes me, what everybody owes me. And I worry about that kind of mentality. So often we do think so many people think just about themselves. And if you start to give to others, people who may be in more need than yourself, you're happier. Those who volunteer are happier people when studies have been done. And I also think it's important what you know too about about faith

um and religion and god we all as we all go through really hard times in our life some go through harder times than others and you think of those who go through that by themselves without any faith i don't know i don't frankly i don't know how they do it i don't know how they can get up in the morning but you're never alone right you're a believer, you can always share this with your father, with someone who has gone through just as much or more than likely way more than you'll ever go through on the cross. And I think that is the rock of a person's life when they have faith that can get them through the most challenging of times that would blind you with how difficult it is. But people get through it because of the faith. Also, when you mentioned, too, about the difficult time in the morning and the loneliness that comes, I think that's why we're coming up on Thanksgiving. We're coming up on Christmas.

And I know these are holidays that can be very challenging for people, especially when they're alone. But so many people look forward to it because you might have a little time off and your family gets together. And there really is that people, yes, we will fight with, you know, politics and there'll be a whole bunch of conversations, but the craziness of our families and getting together and the joy that comes from that is real, which is why we all look forward so often to the holiday season. I think for some people, the holidays can be, you know, can bring more despair in some ways because maybe they don't have that family or maybe they have broken relationships, but it is always that opportunity to do that. We'll be back with much more after this. You know, Janine, I'm so fascinated by your career in Hollywood and how you're just so grounded. You're so real. You're so down to earth and you have such a sense of faith and patriotism. What am I missing about Hollywood? We, you know as conservatives we bash hollywood a lot i know there are good people there but i mean you were in at such a young age

too how did you come out of all of that how did i survive it yeah yeah we're talking the 70s i was in new york city modeling as a 15 year old in 1970. In the way that like we hear about, like in movies, like you're in New York City and like a person sees you and says, do you want to be a model? I mean, it's like like you never hear about that anymore. Well, that's true. It's a different world. New York City, the 70s. Oh, my goodness. And then I was in Hollywood by the age of 17. I graduated from high school a year early. I, I, you know, so I have been a working girl. I mean, really, that's been my focus.

It's really been interesting to, I never had those college years, even though I, you know, it was straight a honor and all that and could have easily gone to college. My dad said, why would you go to college? You're already making so much money right now. You go to college, you get a career, you already have one. I'm like, yeah, but I want to go learn. He goes, I'm not going to pay all that money for you to have an intellectual

conversation. But I think that, that it was, uh, and it's something else. It's, you have to be tough. You have to be so incredibly tough with a sense of, you know, I, right before Northern Exposure, I had, now I've been, I started at 15. I'm now 27 years old before Northern Exposure. And I worked, I'd always worked, but not a big break.

And I'd gone through a kind of a bit of a dark hole. And I was really, really wondering what in the world I was going to do with my life and feeling rather depressed. And I had $8 left to my name. And this is a very long, long story, but, but the bottom line is I fell down to the bottom of the couch and just thought, okay, it's over. It's just like, okay, you want me to say, whatever, God, I'll do whatever you want. And God said, it's over as far as the career is concerned. And God said to me, if you listen, God speaks to us. You may not be audible, but there's a knowingness of God talking to us. And God said, don't let anybody put out your flame. and God said, don't let anybody put out your flame. And that flame being God has given me this purpose and I can't allow all these people to put it out.

I mean, you just hear no and no and no over and over and over. It's the most, I mean, all careers can be difficult, but it's just a really rather demoralizing, humiliating career. And you just have to keep at it and just don't let anybody put out your flame and remain tremendously strong about what you know you can do and never take no for an answer. But I never acquiesced my faith to this industry of showbiz, and I never acquiesced my political beliefs. And I was engaged to Alec Baldwin, okay, when I was 20.

And I was engaged to Alan Baldwin, okay, when I was 20. So I would sit around a table in Hollywood, and it wasn't pretty for the one conservative sitting at the table, which was me. And I was essentially told to sit there and not to open my mouth. And those were the Reagan days, you know. So I was never really a part of the hip crowd because I just, I i don't know i i'm a i don't know i i i look the industry on the flip side there's a lot of group think that happens we see this group think happening everywhere and i'm more of an independent thinker um and i'm not going to sacrifice my soul or my spirit or my values and my morals to accomplish this i'll accomplish it i'll take

the long road you know to get there. But on the flip side, there are a lot of really good people in Hollywood. You can't stereotype an entire industry, which it tends to happen. You know, I can sometimes even feel that way. But it's an industry that does have a lot of good people that are wanting to do a lot of good work. And there are a lot of people that try to want to lift, whether they're Democrats or Republicans or have faith or don't. They feel, you know, actors are sort of emotional people and they empathize quite deeply and they want to try to make the world a better place. So there are a lot of great people in the industry and the film industry. Once you get that job can be actually really pretty wonderful.

You have to get the job, of course. But really pretty wonderful. You have to get the job. Of course. But as you said, you hear a lot of no. And I saw, I believe I read that you almost got the job in Endless Love that Brooke Shields got. Do you feel like you dodged a bullet a little bit in that one? Oh, that's a great story, though. I'll tell it to you in two sentences. Yes.

But my mother made that decision. I met, Franco Zeffirelli had directed in Romeo and Juliet, the one with Olivia Hussey in black and white. And he worked with Elizabeth Taylor in Taming of the Shrew. And I read in the paper, we're talking in the seventies, that Franco Zeffirelli was doing a national tour for, to find, to discover his next,

you know, Olivia Hussey. And I was like, that's me. So I meet with the casting director. This is a typical Hollywood right here. I'll say it in three sentences. I met with the casting director in Dallas.

And she said, no, I don't think you're right. Well, I could have stopped there, right? Well, then this agent wanted to represent me in Hollywood. He goes, come out to Hollywood. I want to represent you. And I said, well, I'll come out and meet you in Hollywood. But I want to meet Frank Lozefferelli. Even this woman in Dallas had already said no to Hollywood. I want to represent you. And I said, well, I'll come out and meet you in Hollywood, but I want to meet Frank Lozeffarelli. Even this woman in Dallas had already said no to me. So I meet a producer in, in California. He kind of had his head down the whole time and

he didn't really pay any attention to me. I was 17. And he said, but he said, no, she's not right. I'm like, I just have to get the Frank Lozeffarelli. I was 17. And so this agent and this other agent in new york said i want to represent you come to new york i said well i'll go to new york but i want to meet franco zeffirelli and so i get to new york city and i meet sally hughes and barry moss i'll never forget the casting directors i walk in and they said hang on just one minute they went to the back of the room and opened sort of this trap door and they said said, come in here a minute. And in the room was Franco Zeffirelli. And I do this videotaped interview with him. And after I finished, he said to me,

because he was Italian, he said, where have you been? And I became his choice. I was his discovery. So then it became between Franco, who wanted me and the studio uh who wanted Brooke Shields and I did two film screen tests and we were all trying to convince you know the studio and all this because Franco I was Franco's choice and the bottom line is they finally asked they wanted me to sign that I would do nudity uh and my mother said no she's not gonna she's not gonna perform she's not gonna I hate to say the word do nudity but she's not going to, she's not going to perform. She's not going to, I hate to say the word do nudity, but she's not going to perform in the nude. And so that was that. And Brooke Shields ended up doing it. Would you even have done it even if your mom had approved?

No, I didn't want to do it. And there were a lot of instances later in my career with actresses that, you know, every script I received, we're talking this late seventies, early eighties. That's why Maggie O'Connell Northern Exposure was such a great character that I waited for for years. I wanted a character that one could respect. Because all the work I was offered were TNA roles, you know, hypnotized or kidnapped. But it had to be rescued by the A-team. But they were all, take your top off. They were all, take your top off, were all they were all take your top off take

your top off take your top off and i didn't want to do that and um so yeah kudos to my mom you know but but also the the cool aspect of that story is i kept fighting to meet franco zaffarelli and everyone was telling me no so you can apply this in life in general. It's just don't give up before the miracle. And I got there and met Franco Zeffirelli and I was his choice. That is such a great story. But also, again, kudos to your mom, because Brooke Shields' mom did not do as good of a job. Brooke Shields is now, I think, you know, working through a lot of issues, even in her, you know, 50s now, from a lot of the things that happened to her as a young child actor, etc, that her mother exposed her to. And so just interesting how, you know, like I said, your mom did well. No question about that. And you did too.

Glad to hear that. She's 86 and still kicking. My mom, my mom would say to me when I was in Texas and I would call the modeling agency to see if there was any work. And I say, Hey, it's Janine. And they say, no, no, it's slow right now. So I, I walked back to my mother and she said, what'd they say? And I said, they said it's slow. And my mom looked at me and she says, it may be slow, but someone's working. It might as well be you. Call them back. Wow. That is awesome. It is the point of never give up.

And hard work oftentimes prevails, right? And you can never stop. And so often today, people, you know, these young people will give up on their dreams. You hear no once and you're like, okay i'll go do something else and the the ones who persevere the ones who still you will they they drive forward yes did you ever have you ever um watched uh oh gosh it's on the history channel it's uh the the foods that made america or whatever they talk about coca-cola versus pepsi the foods that made America or whatever. They talk about Coca-Cola versus Pepsi.

Yep. If y'all ever watched that show, it's so amazing because you are like a Kellogg versus the other one of post cereals. And it's really great for people to watch, but how competition really does lift people to higher levels, that innate sense of competition that we all have, but all the things that happen to them where they could have just given up, you know, the factories burn or this happens or

whatever. And they just keep at it, keep at it, keep at it, keep at it. We can't be afraid of hard work. You know, I love that idea. You can't be afraid of failure. Yes. Yeah. You don't be afraid of failure. You learn more from failure than you learn from, from winning. You know, it's like, I learned more from that, that quiz on that, that answer on the test. I didn't get right. Then I learned from all the answers I did get correct. You know, that were correct. It's like, you learn more from failure than you learn from, from the good times. If you're, if you, if you keep at it. That's absolutely true. Well, Janine, it has been so great talking to you, catching up, Well, Janine, it has been so great talking to you, catching up, just hearing about your book, The Pivot Principle, Finding Joy in Despair.

I think, again, I don't think there's a better time for this kind of a message. I think people need it right now more than ever. They need to turn off the news and start focusing on their phones and start focusing on relationships, on their spiritual life. Because because in the end those are the things that really matter and you really bring that to the forefront and you talk about it in such a beautiful way um janine thank you for joining us today it's just again the impact that you've had on our daughter and our son uh through constituting america which by the way if you have children or grandchildren, do check out this organization. You can find them online.

They're doing amazing work. And you were super prescient in the need to, you know, educate on that topic in particular to save America. And hopefully people will check out the site and get involved as well. I think both of you, and by the way, my book's available at Amazon or, you know, janineturner.com. You got to do that little plug, right? But I have to say, I have to say, I watched the two of you and I am so impressed with both of you. And I thank you for your service to the country. I'm so impressed how you have your faith, your dedication to country, both of you,

your dedication to one another, your, the nine children that you, exceptional, wonderful children. Evita and Jack I've met and have dealt with personally are just talent. I'm sure all of you, I know all of your children are, but how you are delightful and wonderful and inspiring. But I'm always amazed at how the two of you have raised this family and work the way you do. Um, um, and your dedication to, to, and whether it was Congress, Sean, when you were in the Congress or Rachel, then Sean, the way you're both on, on television and in New York city and working so hard, kudos to both of you. I admire you both. We appreciate that Janine and you are a, you are a light and thanks for, again, I think it's, I think it's a service to the, Janine, and you are a light. And thanks

for, again, I think it's a service to the country to go, you know what, I'm going to share my experiences. And sometimes that can be really raw. And people learn when people are raw in books and sharing their experiences, their hardships, but also the solutions that brought them out. You do that in your book. And we're so grateful that you joined us at the kitchen table for a wonderful conversation, reconnecting after 13 years of constituted America, where we met up in Ashland, Wisconsin. Janine Turner, thank you so much. Thank you, Janine. You're the best. Thank you both. Thank you so much. All right. Well, that was really great. Reconnecting with Janine. She's such a wonderful lady and so insightful. I think it's very cool when you have Hollywood

actresses and actors that will share their inside stories, the trials and tribulations they have in their life. Very cool. I remember seeing her show Northern Exposure. She is so beautiful. She was also by the way on Dallas. Did you know that?

I did know before the interview that she was also by the way on dallas did you know that i do you know dallas before the interview that she was on dallas she was on dallas um huge star a lot of people also seeing her on some of these christmas movies on the hallmark channel yeah and that sort of stuff um she's been reappearing that way as well but um she's just a fantastic lady as you can tell um never never let go of her values no she didn't and you know she's um someone who did this wonderful work of constituting america as well which is how we met her um and as you mentioned it was a big deal for our family when evita won and jack went to denise turner came to our little town in wisconsin we couldn't believe it they were like a road to a road yeah yeah they had

a like a winnebago they were coming across the country. It was like road rules, Trine Turner style. It was, it was a little bit like that, like a reality show, but boy, we were really impressed that she did that. And then she would take the time to, to be part of that organization in such a, in such a, a real tangible way. It wasn't like she was on some board where they just put her name on it. I mean, she was absolutely very much involved. What a great lady. Her name again, her book again is The Pivot Principle, Finding Joy in Despair, available at Amazon or at her website, JanineTurner.com. That's right. Listen, everyone, we appreciate Janine Turner and we want to thank you all for joining us at the kitchen table for this episode. If you like our podcast you can rate review subscribe wherever we get your podcast you can always find us at foxnewspodcast.com again we encourage you to

subscribe get a notice every time we drop wednesday thursday and friday every week we love this time that we spend together as a couple and also with all of you talking about the issues of the day that matter from politics to culture to janine turner today yes all right have a good one bye everybody listen ad free with a fox news podcast plus subscription and apple podcast and amazon prime members can listen to the show ad free on the amazon music app From the Fox News Podcast Network. I'm Janice Dean, Fox News Senior Meteorologist. Be sure to subscribe to the Janice Dean Podcast at foxnewspodcast.com or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

And don't forget to spread the sunshine.