From the Kitchen Table: The Duffys - Jill Biden's Former Press Secretary Dishes On FLOTUS’ True Motives

Episode Date: July 4, 2024

Sean and Rachel have been sounding the alarm on President Biden's competency for years now, Rachel even called out Dr. Jill Biden for 'elder abuse' in 2021! Three years ago, that comment led to some backlash – including a jab from the First Lady's Former Press Secretary, Michael LaRosa, debunking the claim. Fast forward to the President's concerning debate performance last week. . .it seems more people are starting to agree with Rachel.   So, today Sean & Rachel are asking Michael LaRosa where he stands now. Michael also shares his thoughts on President Biden saying he's staying in the race despite calls from his own party to bow out and gives the inside scoop on some of the Biden Administration's interesting behavior throughout the years.   Follow Sean & Rachel on X: @SeanDuffyWI & @RCamposDuffy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everyone, welcome to From the Kitchen Table. I'm Sean Duffy along with my co-host for the podcast, my partner in life and my wife, Rachel Campbell-Stuffy. Sean, it's great to be back at the kitchen table, which this time is in Wisconsin. It is. It's at our cabin kitchen table. It's a beautiful day. And we're going to be hitting the water, but not before we have this incredible podcast.

I don't think we could have a more timely guest, Sean. We, you know, last week was that disastrous debate for Joe Biden. And quite honestly, it was disastrous for the Democrats as well. So we decided to invite someone to the kitchen table who truly knows the chaos that's happening right now within the Biden administration. And he's been making a few appearances on Fox News. So you may what he's coming on Fox. He's coming on Fox. I saw him on Jesse. I had heard about him before. Michael LaRosa. He's a political advisor. And get this. He was the former press secretary for the first lady, Dr. Jill Biden. She likes to be called doctor. No, she doesn't. Yes, she does. OK, we'll talk about that. We'll talk about that. I love how sassy you already are. I feel like we have so

much to talk about, Rachel. I just we have so much, Michael. Michael and I have a little bit of a history. We're going to get into that as well. But he has been calling out the Biden campaign for deceiving Americans from what's really been happening and giving a lot of, I think, some pretty good advice to the Biden team. I don't know if they're taking it or not, but we'll see. Michael, welcome to the kitchen table. Thank you, guys. Thank you so much for having me. I really, really appreciate it. It was an honor to be asked. Surprise, but honor. Well, you know, I've been following you for a while. A couple of years now. But let's, well, should we allude first before I get into it?

Just so you can tease that, Rachel. I'll tease it later. So Michael, as press secretary for Jill Biden, called me out two years ago demanding an apology, calling my comments about Joe Biden's mental decline disgusting. And my my calling out Jill Biden for it. He said it was disgusting and that I owed Jill Biden an apology. So we're going to get into that in a little bit, because I think I've been I've been vindicated, I believe. But we'll see what Michael says about that. But before that, I think it might be really good for our listeners to get a better idea, a good idea, Michael, of what you your job was with the first lady. What were your duties? What what did you do with her and how did you help her? Give us that. What was your job? And you eventually exited. How did it happen? Sure. So I joined the Bidens as an outsider,

an outsider in two ways. First of all, I was never part of the Obama administration and really didn't know many people in in Biden world at all. I I started, you know, I grew up as a political junkie. Five years old, I memorized the presidents and just my interest morphed and grew from there. Over time, I went to college on a swimming scholarship and my senior year, I just I didn't know what I was going to do because I was swimming. I didn't have time to do Washington semesters and internships. And anyway, I ended up getting an internship with the Hillary Clinton finance office in New York City when she was a senator. And really, a lot of my mentors in politics really came from that world and that they were how i was introduced to the bidens um in the spring of 2019 now i i had also been a producer a tv producer for about seven years for chris matthews on hardball i think i even

on the show uh oh you did once or twice. What happened to Chris Matthew? Oh, he was canceled. And he's gone forever. No, he's around. I talked to him like I think I talked to him every week still. He's writing a book. But yeah, he's around. He'll occasionally do Morning Joe.

But yeah, he's still around paying very close attention. So a lot of my my formative years in Washington were spent as a TV producer, but getting to know people on Capitol Hill on both sides. So I've had friends that span years. I knew Kellyanne long before Trump, right? And met Hogan when he was on the Huckabee campaign, I think, and got to know Hope really well. on the Huckabee campaign, I think, and got to know Hope really well. That's Hogan Gidley, who was on the press team with Donald Trump. Seen him on TV every now and again as well. Yeah.

So I built a lot of, cultivated a lot of relationships. And after Trump was elected, I knew, because I had now covered campaigns twice with Chris, two presidential cycles, I kind of knew that I really wanted to have nothing really to do with Donald Trump. It had to do with a little bit of how the news business had changed. And I felt like we really became hostage to sort of every tweet and every like he really the man really changed the news cycle. I mean, it's the New York Times wasn't setting the story of the day. It was whatever Donald Trump tweeted. Suddenly the world was reacting to completely. We would produce shows all day long as producers.

And by five, four or five o'clock, the Times, the Journal or the Post would be coming out with some big scoop. We'd have to pair the whole show up. And, you know, eventually it would just be like, OK, here's five questions. We'll get somebody on the phone with you for a live phoner. And it just became so monotonous like that that I was kind of just bored. I didn't feel like I was really, you know, I didn't feel like I was really being challenged. I'm not saying mentally, but I was really it wasn't being stimulated, I guess. It had nothing to do with Trump personally. It was just how he owned the news cycle that we weren't able to do a lot of other things

that I thought were really interesting because I'm a political junkie at heart. Right. I actually am more fascinated by how both sides by understanding both sides and how they tick. I think that's more interesting about politics. But anyway, I knew I couldn't just be a producer and go, you know, pick up, wait for the campaign to start. I went to Capitol Hill, put my head down, worked for a serious policy committee, the Senate Energy Committee for two years for Marie Cantwell. committee for two years for Maria Cantwell. And then after the 18 election, went to Pelosi's office where I kind of oversaw the messaging for the caucus and worked mostly with a lot of the 2018 class members on sort of media training. But also I think I ran a Fox, a Fox media training that got some news because I was I was somebody who was really

incurred because we had so many members from districts that were purple or red and we needed them to not alienate such a large audience. And then, you know, of course, we got some for that. But I was introduced to the Bidens that spring of 19 to Jill Biden and her chief of staff and started out by just feeding him advice every now and then. Feeding Joe or Jill? Advice. Jill, I'm sorry, Dr. Biden. So, Michael, can I take a quick side note? Because you mentioned the Congress and the House.

And I would tell you, I think you're spot on when you were saying Democrats should go on Fox. take a quick side note because you mentioned you know the congress in the house um and i i would tell you i think you're spot on when you were saying democrats should go on fox we said the same thing in the republican conference it's like listen you can't just go on fox you got to go on msnbc and you got to go on cnn you want to take your message everywhere right and and and that's kind of gone away i mean, it's become so polarized now. I think what I think what's happened is, I mean, I frankly, I even look at it now and this maybe you think I'm biased. I think Fox is actually pretty, pretty good to Democrats. They come on and they might get hard questions, but it's not like, you know, you're not fact checked in real time

and you're not like cut off half sentence.'s what cnn and msnbc does and that's why republicans don't want to go on all the time on cnn and then after a while they were so disingenuous and so just trying to attack instead of learn and and get another point of view out that he just said forget it the only one i actually liked was chris como yeah for the sole purpose that he was yeah he was he was a fighter but I could actually have a conversation with him and shut me down. So I wanted anyway. Those are bygone days now. So let's continue with you. Now you're now you're at Jill's. You're giving advice to Jill. How did you end up working? So you do. OK, so I was while while I was at the House D.P.C.C.

in Pelosi's office, I had really wanted to work for Joe Biden. He was real. I knew I wanted to work in a presidential campaign. You know, I romanticized the war room, you know, that documentary. Always just really want to be a part of it. And but but I I didn't know much about the other candidates because a lot of them were really new and weren't really. I didn't know much about the other candidates because a lot of them were really new and weren't really. I'm a I'm more of a Clinton business friendly, you know, pro trade Democrat. And so you weren't going to take a chance on a Sanders or anybody. You said, I'm going to I'm going to jump in with the establishment guy that I know and I trust.

Yeah. Saying he's going to unify the country. Well, and so you're going to work for him. So my calculation, if there was one and I was I look, I was being very methodical. saying he's going to unify the country. And so you go and work for him. So my calculation, if there was one, and I was, look, I was being very methodical. I was meeting with Steve Ricchetti. I was meeting with Greg Schultz. I was introducing myself to get to know the Biden people. And I didn't break through.

I did not, I was not selected for like the first, the launch crew, you know? And I was like, I was disappointed, but like I couldn't compete with people who you know when you're in for so long they have these layers these universes of people who are forever and i can't compete with that right um so took my time but we were introduced i was introduced to anthony bernal her chief of staff and um you know slowly began saying like she was starting to do a a book or a book tour right around the time he launched, actually. And so I was giving him and sending interview tips over and saying and kind of like critiquing her, her interviews. And I think I think he enjoyed it because I didn't really have anything to lose. Right.

I was just telling her, telling them what I thought and like you can take it or leave it, you know, by, by August, I think of 2019, you know, she, she had made him a, she made something where the campaign wanted her to walk it back. She said, in New Hampshire, you might not, you might not agree with Joe on everything. You might not think he's the most progressive, but he's the only one who can, he can beat Trump. So you just have to kind of swallow it and just and just move on. I remember that. I remember. He kind of said that about Anita Hill, too. Like, we just got to move on.

And I said, don't walk anything back. I was like, that, in essence, is the entire basis for him. Right. That was good advice, Michael. She is actually on message. But and Katie Rogers wrote about this in the book about her and the contemporary first ladies. I came in and I was just like, what are you doing? Don't apologize for anything. I was like, just just keep going. People crave authenticity. It's another thing that really Trump changed about political communication is that you can agree yourself and you can be rewarded for it. But also just voters inherently are distrustful of being told not to believe their lying eyes and spinning, you know.

So. So, Michael, so you so you give her some good advice, but then eventually you end up. Yeah. Sorry. I'm digressing. That's OK. What year did you start working for her? So by September, right after Labor Day, they're like, are you ready to come to philadelphia we really need you the boss uh needs a new press person i said this is during the campaign or after their no this is during the primary this is what when the primary when there's no no money he's we're trailing he is you know not doing that great in debates uh you know they're finally kind of they have to turn the barrel because they've never really been the target because he's never really been the front runner. So I'm like, all right, this is my last chance. I'm, you know, mid 30s. So you join the team, you're in your mid 30s.

OK, so let's let's fast forward. Joe Biden wins, wins the election. And now you become what the press secretary for? So I was her the whole entire time during the primary and the general. I was her traveling press secretary. So what is she like? What is she like? She's not like a boss. I got to be honest. Like she, you know, I just remember her like mothered me a lot.

Like there was just four of us. And it was like, you know, we were at a connection. We were having a connection in Chicago because we were flying commercial for most of the campaign until we won the nomination and um she's like did you do you want some of these fries because you need to eat we don't know we're gonna eat again and like you know do you want like she just took care of me but she was fun because at the end of the day we'd go back to our hotel room talk about the day talk about the schedule and drink a glass of wine and she's like she likes to drink red wine and i loved that she's a wine mom yeah and like she was she was funny she could lose she was so loose at the end of the day when it was all over um and look i have to be honest we were we

were doing and i got in trouble for this this is where this is where i learned rachel the the sort of hidden power that that exists And we'll explore this. But I accidentally told a reporter how many counties we went to in Iowa. And it was what we call the boys team, the other side of the house now, winced because what did they know? They knew that if she's done 72 counties in Iowa, there's 99. He's only done about like 50 or so. And I was like, Jesus, I thought that was a good thing.

She's out campaigning, Joe. But they were worried that that might make him look bad. Always a constant fear that like by her traveling so much it would make it would raise questions and i was like okay there i get it uh i only know she's ambitious is what you're telling me too no no that's not what i'm telling you like no i listen but hold on michael i i don't object to that at all i think rachel when we were in politics would would compliment and supplement me and sometimes i'm doing things i've never outworked you though there's no way no but I think Rachel, when we were in politics, would would compliment and supplement me. And sometimes I'm doing things.

I've never outworked you, though. There's no way. No, but I'm a campaign trail. Right. But there's some things that you might be doing. You might be in a different state campaigning somewhere. But also I was I had kids and Jill Biden is. I don't I don't falter for campaigning and campaigning hard for Joe. So I'm going to agree a little bit with Rachel on that. I didn't I didn't say anything. I just was wondering if he thought she was

an ambitious lady. We'll get to that whole thing because you do have now, I will challenge you later in the show. She has no perception. She has no perception. She's a blank slate. You're kind of like Jill, Rachel. You almost have like a Sicilian personality. You're very loyal.

You're kind very, you almost have like a Sicilian personality. You're very loyal. They're like kind of fighters. Wow. I don't know what to take. He's comparing me to Jill Biden. In a good way. In a good way. In a good way. All right.

So let's get to this because he gets elected. Yep. And during the campaign, Michael, during the campaign, there was an effort. And I think if you're, let's just be really honest, you're at the kitchen table. Let's be full honest. OK, there was an effort to use the excuse of covid to keep the man in the basement and off the campaign trail. He could not keep up with with not Trump, even with any any candidate, any campaign. Are we wrong on that?

Was there some other reason why I should sit in the basement? Because I think we're pretty well convinced that that was the case. What say you? truly honest perspective now when we were down and we were adjusting to the virtual campaign did it last longer than i thought uh by july i thought yeah they were taking some things to extremes but i what not in relation to him like i always assumed that uh are the goal to be much more of a safe. Make no mistakes. Yeah. Make no mistakes. Don't have any flubs. You didn't think it was because he was cognitively declining.

No. You thought it was because they just didn't want to take a chance with any mistakes. As a campaign, we were, we were supportive. And our position was we are following the guidance. And so they are older. Yes. We knew, i think we even acknowledged they are an older couple we don't want them to get sick and all these old people are are are dying and we're not gonna have our everybody was just there was there's no no hiding that we were concerned sure but i've i'll never forget this we were on our way um in the motorcade

uh in in the fall heading to uh pennsylvania from their house and we were doing prep in the car like in the motorcade and it was a joint interview that he and she were going to do in scranton after the philadelphia stop and we're going over the schedule and he got angry. And he said, and you know, General Malley Dillon is running the call. This is a very big staff call in the morning ahead of the day. And he's like, why am I not doing more? And then she starts running through the schedules of Jill and Kamala. And he's like, I didn't ask about her. I'm asking about me.

Why am I not out there more? So he, whether it was intentional for whatever reason, I assumed if it was intentional, it was just about keeping them healthy and safe because they were. Well, OK, so you're you were in there and then that's your perception. I was seeing this as differently. I think he I was starting to see signs that they were trying to hide that. And let's fast forward to 2021. OK, so in August of 2021, I said this on Fox News. And by the way, this was very controversial. You know, people weren't quite saying out loud any of this because nobody wanted to. I guess people were saying saying don't diagnose the you

know the teaser this is where this is where the paths of rachel and michael crossed people were this is where our paths crossed so i go on fox and friends i'm on fox and friends i'm hosting and i tell my co-hosts because we're having this conversation um about the chaos in in Afghanistan, how the Taliban's taking over, how poorly handled this was that this guy is just not at the top of his game. Joe, Joe. Yes, Joe Biden. And I said, who are the this is a quote, who are the people responsible for putting someone this incompetent and frankly, this mentally frail in this position. I'm sorry. As a political spouse, I can't help but look at Jill Biden. No one knew better his state of mind than Dr. Jill Biden.

And if you ask me, the most patriotic thing Jill Biden could have done was to tell her husband to actually love her husband and not let him run in the mental state that he is in. I think she failed the country as well. Now, I said that and Michael LaRosa, who's now on this podcast and the press secretary for Jill Biden at the time, tweets out, this is disgusting. At Rachel Campos Duffy and Fox News, no better. They can do better, and their viewers deserve better. I hope

they'll apologize to the First Lady and leave this kind of talk in the trash where it belongs. Now, that happened, and someone at Fox asked me if I was going to apologize. Somebody in the hierarchy, and I said, nails no. No, Dr. K, don in the hierarchy. And I said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, apologize i will not apologize for telling the truth and michael you were right up there

you were you were closer to the situation than i was i could see it from afar um two questions for you okay why did you send that tweet out when you knew you're close up to the situation that i was right that he was in mental decline that he wasn't fit to handle this job that he was right, that he was in mental decline, that he wasn't fit to handle this job, that he was failing and probably was going to decline the way we're seeing by the end of the term. And two, I also want to get your thoughts on this. And I know this is hard. You worked for her, but I was a political spouse. I am the only person in Sean's life when he was in Congress who's looking out for just Sean. I have no angle. I'm not looking for a job. I'm not looking for, you know, make connections. I'm not looking for

power. I'm just looking out for Sean. And it just even back then in 2021, I saw something about Jill, a quest for power that I think compromised the well-being, the dignity and the legacy of her husband. So I just want to keep it on her for right now, because I noticed I'm actually thinking about it. I didn't even say you should apologize to him. I said you should apologize. Really? You're doubling down on your tweet and expanding it. No, no. I was surprised. I, I'm thinking about what I wrote now. And like, I can't believe I didn't tell you to apologize. At the time, I didn't say you should apologize to him

because you said he was old and frail. I just said you should apologize to her. And I think, Rachel, it wasn't the old senile, he's off his game stuff because I had been with her for two years by that point we were always always accused of being edith wilson and uh in the dark corners of the internet that he was you know that she was wheeling out that we we knew all that existed it wasn't that that i was um and by the way i didn't see the show i had actually was scrolling through twitter

that morning and saw it and on a headline. And the headline said the headline actually provoked me more because the headline in The Huffington Post, I think, said, you know, Duffy says Jill Biden has blood on her hands. You know, points Afghanistan withdrawal to Jill Biden kind of thing. So what made me and by the way, that was a very hot time in the White House, as you can imagine. Sure. Sure. And by the way, I was personally conflicted because I didn't agree with Trump or Biden. I didn't want to. I think we should be leaving in the first place. That's neither here nor there, because you you are a staff. You you work. You don't make the decisions you're right that's right um so i felt like you attacked i felt like you made that i i think she put you up to it this is my

theory i think she put you up to it because i was over the target and i was one of the most you know somebody on a very large platform saying what i think she knew to be true oh and now we're gonna have drinks we need to have yeah yeah yeah yeah oh yeah i i i so what happened there michael i want to tell you i want to tell you the backstory from my end i did did did jill did jill see what rachel said about her was she offended was this all you or was this was this a joint decision this was was the no, no, no. This was the next. This must have been Monday or Tuesday. And I just impulsively tweeted.

I got in trouble. I was like reprimanded by the White House. I got in so much trouble. And I'm like, do these people not know anything about communications? When your boss is attacked, you respond. You don't wait and allow a narrative to settle in and boss is attacked, you respond. You don't wait and allow a narrative to settle in and continue. You have to respond. And I was being defensive of my boss. So I thought I could get away with it. That was me impulsively tweeting. She doesn't

watch cable and doesn't know anything about that stuff because those kinds of attacks were pretty normal. It was the patriotism thing rachel that was the only thing because she is the daughter of a world war ii vet and the the mother of a of a vet who served in uh in iraq and the her part of her whole platform her whole position as first lady was serving military spouses and military families. And so that was, it had nothing to do with the, the senile. She was more mad when I said that she let the country down, which I stand by as well. But wait, is that even more so now?

No, it was me. It was me. It wasn't her. She, she, she not, she's not involved in social media. She wasn't even in, I think she was at, that was in August. She was at Rehoboth that day that I tweeted. She would have no, like, she also doesn't, she's not involved in like when we tweet or anything like that. And that was me being impulsive, Michael, which they hate it. Right.

Super self-made. I'm not going to fault you for being defensive of your boss, right? I mean, that's what I wanted from my staff as well. So I do think you're wrong on that one. But kudos on saying I'm a defender and I'm going to be outraged by it. And I'm going to push back. And so, Rachel, but I will just say it was never my experience, though, either. Now, I haven't been there in two years.

Two years is a lot of time. I can tell you story after story and you don't need to hear it, but I can tell you story after story about how he was perfectly sharp and with it every time I was in his company or in her company. She would be like, Joe, do you remember? She would ask him for things. Joe, what was our first song we danced to? Because we were doing a parade magazine uh in like uh prep he would come in and get it get a spotify list and look i don't know michael i i'm not i'm not i'm not arguing listen i'm not your experience but i will tell you it has been since the beginning she has looked like his visiting angel she has looked like his nurse escorting him upstairs, helping him, you know, you know. And then you guys had the Easter Bunny was, you know, intercepting for him. I mean, signs have been there for a long time.

This was this is I mean, this is not a Fox perspective. I think I mean, I got my parents are, you know, Bernie Sanders liberals. are, you know, Bernie Sanders liberals. But when we look at Joe, I think so many people go, how can it be that the staff says that he is so sharp and so with it and so together behind closed doors, but we never get to see that Joe Biden out in public because when he's given speeches and he's on a teleprompter, there's all I mean, he messes up, he messes them up and he mumbles and he and he trails down the stairs when he's not when he's when he's when he's not on teleprompter. He can't keep his thoughts together. And so there is an element of a lot of us feeling like we're being gaslit because you can't have two different Joes here. You can't have Joe behind closed doors and a different one in public. behind closed doors and a different one in public it has to be the same joe and what we see in public must be what's happening behind closed doors and all of you guys must be seeing it and this is the

this is why the debate matters michael the debate is the first time he was sort of you know he had no harness right he had no safety net before him he's up there by himself, double screen next to Donald Trump. No, no cards. No, no teleprompter. Right. No staff. No Easter Bunny to come in and save him. And he's right there on a split screen with Donald Trump, who's only a couple of years younger than him. And what was your reaction when you saw what you saw? To use a phrase from my former boss, it was a gut punch. It was right. Did you expect that to happen? Knowing what you know?

No, I was actually Jesse. I was saying I thought he was going to run circles around him on policy. The only thing they needed to practice was presentation. I was jarred and shocked as everyone. I did. I was processing people. Rep reporters were reporters were texting me saying do you feel vindication because i had been raising alarms and i paid a price for it raising explained explain to our listeners how you were raising alarms and this is i'm confused because on the one hand you're raising alarms about his mental state on the other hand it wasn't about his mental state or his agility

i was an advocate for him putting him out there being engaged being doing live interviews doing press conferences because i my my feeling always was that biden was the best advocate for himself and that he could that's what he loved was that he didn't come this far by hiding. He always cared about his relationships with the media and the press. He was his house was burning down with his wife in it while he was doing meet the press. He was always doing media. And I felt like that was it. But wait, that was a kitchen fire. It wasn't the house was not burning. Yeah, that's correct. OK, well, yeah. But my point, my point is, had they been doing all these things for months and months, people would have been conditioned and they might have been able to get away with saying he had a bad night.

Maybe, maybe. But people would have not. Nobody would have been as shocked as I see your point, Michael. So you're saying they hit him away for too long. He's also not getting a lot of practice of thinking on his feet on his own. And then you hide him away. Speculation grows. He has this debate night and he has a terrible night, which I think is probably the way he is every night before he has jello and gets tucked into bed. They confirmed the worst suspicions.

Yeah, it confirmed the worst suspicions. So Michael, I do a show on Fox Business. It's called The Bottom Line for not just you, Michael, but everyone else. It's from 6 to 7 p.m. I try to punch or pump my show every time I'm on my podcast. But what we said was for the last year and a half, we've been covering the story of Joe Biden and the decline and the mistakes and the slurring. So those people who actually watched what he was doing

and i think it's a pretty fair assessment to go something's amiss something's not right and again when you have people pulling him off stage or when he's getting he's getting lost he's getting lost on stage or the g7 when he wandered off and they had to bring him back how could you after seeing that two weeks before michael say i think he think he's going to do fine? Really putting you to the test. You are. Come on. These are honest conversations we all need to have. Yeah. And the truth is, the truth is, because of Thursday night, there is no argument to make. There is no upper hand that can be gained from my party's end at this point we'll have more of this conversation after this i'm ben dominich fox news contributor editor-at-large of the

spectator and editor of the transom.com daily newsletter i'm inviting you to join in-depth conversations every week on the ben dominich podcast listen and follow now at fox News Podcast dot com. We have lost all credibility. I tweeted today. I was like, who's going to apologize to the freaking New York Times and the Wall Street Journal for trashing them? They were reporting on this a couple of weeks ago about you saw the decline. Yeah, well, you saw the grief the Wall Street Journal took for their. Yeah. I'll go out finish finish up no i just

i just think like who's going to apologize to them now because they've been undermining the press they've been undermining polling now they all of a sudden we care about the data what the data says okay great fine are we allowed to believe polls again uh they've been undermining like how people feel about the economy and and it's it's just it's it's i'm frustrated with it because some of this could have been prevent prevented yeah and so i think it could have been it but michael also if you're a democrat you would think i wanted to know this like eight months ago and the no one owes the press an apology the press knew what was going on. They could see it themselves. They're not stupid. And they chose not to report on it. They chose not to push the White House

more on Joe's condition. And so as we sit here today, if you look at the news, part of the reason, though, Sean, this came out today, they're afraid they're afraid of getting not getting silence, getting right, not getting access. Oh, yeah. It's a punishment and reward system for the press it sucks they didn't that didn't work with donald trump i think there was just you know punishment for trump and reward for the media but here's my question right now if you watch screen john pierre uh yesterday talk about you know yeah it was a bad night and incumbent presidents have bad first debates when they're running for re-election and that is true that i

mean whether it was george bush george george uh h w bush george w bush uh brock obama they've all had bad first debate nights donald trump's was horrible his first one that he had with with joe biden when he was interrupting him and um you know we'll let him speak. So you could say that if it was a bad debate, but it was bad cognition. But his brain wasn't working. And so now their problem is they're like, we're going to show you this was just a one off. We're going to have him do an interview with George Stephanopoulos. We're going to take questions from the press. We're going to put him out there more. And the problem with that, Michael, tell me if I'm wrong, is that Joe Biden, I don't think from what I've seen, has the ability, if he's not coddled and cradled, he doesn't have the ability to do a harder hitting interview. He doesn't have the ability to take

questions from the press, not knowing what the question is going to be and give smart answers. So I think, yeah, it's a good answer today. But when they try to play those cards, I think we're going to be right back to where we were the moments after the debate, where Joe Biden doesn't have the cognitive ability to not just run the country for four years. He can't run it for four months or four weeks. Yeah. I mean, people are afraid for the next four months. They're like, if this is what this guy is like, we're on the verge of nuclear war. We have, you know, two proxy wars. We have the Houthis attacking our shipping. We have the Chinese in the Western Hemisphere. And this is the guy in charge. And you can give us pushback.

I'll let you answer because I want to move on to this other topic. Go ahead. This problem is not going to be fixed by one Sunday show interview. And by the way, you're right. An interview he could have done. The funny part to me, the most frustrating part is that people on the outside, like myself, have been begging them to put him out, to engage, to mix it up with the press, to engage, to have him. He has the press corps at his disposal. to mix it up with the press, to engage, to have him. He has the press corps at his disposal.

Donald Trump would never miss the opportunity to walk by a camera to address the press. And what's the reason why they didn't do it? You know, the reason I truly, first of all, they don't they haven't. They have. You're a smart guy. You know, you said you were going to be honest. Oh, I am. I am. Why didn't they do it? What's your best guess of why they didn't do it?

Because your advice is brilliant. It's what I it's what I learned when I first got there, sadly. And it was instincts that I didn't really know or understand. But I have these instincts and it was almost like and I'm not referring to age. It's about like other things, but how taken care of and how uh prioritized privacy and safeguarding privacy was it was almost like they didn't trust their principal a lot of the time um and i don't think i'm the first one to say that but there was inherent mistrust of their principal and i kept thinking this guy's been doing this a lot longer than most of you people but you know they mistrust him because they're

afraid of his answers. When you send the Easter Bunny to save him from a pretty friendly press, you know that he's going to say something that's going to mess up their narrative. We're going to have to issue a correction. They don't,

they coddle him because they don't trust him that he can say sometimes. You remember, sometimes, Sean, he would say, I better not say anything. They'll get mad like he get mad. The staff will get mad. So he was he was coddled. He was managed. And I think Maureen, they knew they and again, Jill Biden has a lot of power. If Jill Biden had confidence in Joe Biden, she would be the one saying, my husband needs to get out there more, and she would get her way. And she didn't. She was part of the problem. And so here's the irony for me. And I talked to you this as you know, her former

press secretary. At this moment, a lot of Americans are actually feeling sorry for Joe Biden. They're mad as hell at your former boss. They think she's a Lady Macbeth. They think it's elder abuse. They think she is exactly what you said, Edith Wilson, that she's trying to pretend like she's the president, that she's enjoying the power. She's not willing to let go. She's not willing. And I know you were deeply offended by any implications of her patriotism.

But in the state that we're in in this country right now, that she is fighting tooth and nail to make sure her husband continues to have power and her family has access to that power does not look very patriotic to me. It doesn't look very, very much like somebody who is willing to to serve and even in the point of not serve in order to advance what's best for the country is to put country above self correct and it feels like and again it feels pretty good to give us pushback but it feels like she's not putting the country ahead of herself and her power pushback give it to us michael i have to give you but you have to understand the family

and this roots and like how they how they think and how they operate. But take her office as first lady, you guys. One of the reasons I left was because I was so bored. She didn't want to do anything with the office. I don't mean that in a disparaging way. I mean, that office was set up to be a surrogate operation, meaning what she she doesn't feel comfortable advocating herself. We didn't do initiatives and push policy agendas and lobby Congress the way other first ladies did. And I really wanted to. I begged her to, you know, talk about addiction for families and how families are affected by addiction.

The way you talk about cancer, because you can be a champion to red, white and blue America for all these things. She didn't want to do that. She didn't want to go to bat. You know why she couldn't do that, though, Michael? Let's be honest. It would have been great PR for her to be an advocate for families who struggle with addiction. But she can't do it because her husband opened the border and the main addiction is fentanyl. It's coming over the border because of her husband that was a dangerous treacherous area for her because it

opened her up to that what did you make it what did you make of the vogue magazine um spread which i thought was only confirmed everyone's lady macbeth it is Wilson narratives. Extremely poor timing. Extremely poor timing. I also, now look, I can't, I can't, it's not, I can't throw my former teammates and my former boss under the bus. I'm also struggling to understand the reason why they needed to go back to Vogue a third time in a first term.

It's like- Because obviously it's vanity why would it's it's vanity you have you listen i know but like i would not have advised that i would have said we don't need this audience again there are three months four months left till early voting starts we're not why are you why are you blaming the team i'm not blaming the woman well no no no no the people around this is jill biden, I am going to be like Michelle. I am going to grace the covers. I'm not going to be any less than Michelle.

I'm going to grace the cover. And damn it, I'm going to do it. And I think, frankly, that that cover looked like she was the president. That's just not who she is, though, Rachel. She hates politics. She hates it. Oh, come on. Cissé Poitou. Come on michael she's on the campaign she's not doing policy because

she wants to be on the campaign trail well but that's but that's going back to my point i'm trying to explain her and who she is is inherently she's not comfortable advocating for her for herself or for her own her own interests. She has always been a campaign. He's been through 15 campaigns. She's always been a campaign spell. So everything that she does is advocating for him, his agenda, his aspirations, his accomplishments. That's what our office turned out to be more of an event driven office as a surrogate operation, integrated and partnered with the West Wing. We didn't have an independent policy operation of our own. We did cool things like we did that covert trip to Ukraine. It was great and it was awesome and historic, but it was never going to get better, any better than that.

And that's why I knew it was probably time for me to, you know, I was it was time for me to go you know both things could be true what both of you are saying could be true because you could say listen she's you know she's all about joe's agenda and rachel's like come on michael it's not it's not joe's agenda it's joe it's it's joe but but yeah joe and i care for joe but here's if jo Joe is incompetent right now, and you might disagree with that, but Joe is not qualified to run the White House, maybe she is stepping in and she is trying to accomplish Joe's agenda at a time when he cannot do it. And that's what we're now seeing is she's trying to she's trying to go. What is what did Joe want? I'm going to do it. I'm going to finish his term when he really can't do it himself. And here's the part I have a problem with, Michael. And I say this because I've been married to Sean for 25 years.

I know your marriage. Beautiful, beautiful. Damn. Please don't say that. Please don't say that, Michael. We're going to end this podcast right now. I just wanted to have drinks with you. I'm going to finish, but I'm going to tell you, say that michael right now i'm going to tell you say that again say your point your love story reminds me of them and i'm i'm being being being candid with you like they they she's had her own she has her own career she doesn't she doesn't need other policy she doesn't need policy like other first ladies did too come on she has her own career. She doesn't need policy like other first ladies did too. Come on. She has her own career. She's a community college teacher. Let's stop

with the stuff. You can't get away with that with me. Here's the deal, Michael. Let's just really be honest. I've been married 25 years and I've been a political spouse. If Sean was in that condition, it's not even about the country at this point. I want to love on Sean. I want that time with Sean. I want Sean to be with his grandkids.

I want to take care of Sean. And I'm not going to put him in a stressful situation that's only going to accelerate his dementia. And I'm going to be very, very protective and jealous of his time. I want that time. I'm not going to give that time to anybody else. I want if Sean is not well, I'm going to take care of Sean because I love Sean. And I think this is what the country is seeing. I went to a a a diner right after the day after the debate. Oh, I heard every single woman, every single woman in that debate said, I mean, in that in that diner said, I would not do this to my husband. In fact, one woman said, I wouldn't even do this to my ex-husband and he's satan that was a quote so explain that part of it michael you know you know their love explain that part too because i think

rachel would have for the reasons she laid out all true right she wants she'd want my time but i also think she was she was very protective of me and would try to prohibit me from embarrassing myself yeah sometimes people didn't care if i was gonna you know step out and do something but she was like hey i don't know that that's the right thing for you and so he does have a legacy he served the country for a long time you would think that at this point they could roll back and go he did four years he's not going to be embarrassed any longer by going on the debate stage like he did last thursday it's a protection of the legacy and him and then a desire for his time and those things aren't happening i agree with the legacy but even more on that it's like

why doesn't she just want to take care of her husband i think she she would be the first person in her car in the convertible headed to the beach the beach. And she'd never come back to Washington. Why would she miss it? Why would she miss one more sunset with Joe Biden over this? They're barely in Washington. They go home every weekend. That's the point too, Michael. That's the point, Michael. You can't have it both ways. You can't have it both ways.

God, I know, listen, you're in a, you're in a tough spot. Listen, I'm going to tell you, I'm going to tell you the truth. I respect you in that I think that I think you are loyal to your boss. And I agree with Sean says, you know, you hire people that are loyal to you, loyal to the mission. And I think you are to them. I also think you have really great instincts.

I mean, I've been following you and the advice you've been giving the Bidens. They should have taken a lot of it and they didn't to their detriment. Well, no, wait. Great. Great. There are great instincts, except for your tweet about Rachel. Beyond that, you're great. Bad instinct there.

Bad instinct there. OK, so I want to wrap this part up, and then we're going to do just a few other little things. I want to give you your last word on why doesn't Jill Biden want to go off into the sunset and love on her husband in his sunset days? So if you look back, and I said this last night, I was on Anderson Cooper, and I was trying to explain this this because everybody thinks Joe Biden is going to save the Democrats, the Democrats at least think that in 1987, when he was humiliated and forced out of that first race for president, they had been married 10 years. They'd known each other. They had known each other 12 years. She started dating him when I think she was a senior in college. She was 23 dating a senator. It was his thing. She folded into that world. And when you're the senator from Delaware and people are grooming you to run for president for the next 10 years, and that's all she knew. It was the most scarring experience of her life to

see him humiliated like that. They both of them, it was they had never had the media spotlight and the pressure and being forced to do anything. He was the golden child of Delaware. He was the next Jack Kennedy. It was a he didn't run for president for another 25, 20 years. What they learned was that they were probably never going to be forced out or pushed out by the polls, the press and the pundits again. But all I can say, Rachel, is that if he didn't want to do this, if this wasn't his call, she would be the first one out of there. She doesn't need this. She doesn't want it. Well, her his sister, his sister thought it was a bad idea. A lot of people said he's not ready to run for office. Yeah. Another term. So what I told Anderson last night was if Democrats and I'm

not calling for him to leave, if Democrats think the party can't win with him and they want to. If Democrats think the party can't win with him and they want to, it's going to take Schumer and Pelosi to go to the committee, which is Jill, Val, Mike, Mark Gatenstein. The people they they they don't. Jill won't say, Joe, abandon your aspirations because he's never done that for her. because he's never done that for her. That's just not how they've rolled. He did not prevent her from getting three advanced degrees, from teaching as second lady, from teaching as first lady. They decide these things as a husband and wife, but then they support each other and back each other up. That's just, that's all I know.

And that's, she would never feel comfortable. Would you feel comfortable making like a decision the voters made and taking that away from them? But not but Michael, it's not a decision. The voter the voters made the decision in 2020. Yeah, it's a decision about what are you going to do in 24? And if I wanted to do something, this is the point. I bet Joe does want to stay in the race. if I wanted to do something, this is the point. I bet Joe does want to stay in the race. Joe thinks that he's Joe doesn't see what we all see. And that's actually a sign of dementia. They oftentimes don't know what's happening to them. They don't recognize it. And that's why I think Rachel's point is, that's where your loving wife comes in. And she says, I know you want to do this.

I know this is your passion. Right. But our time has come. Our time has come. You know, he said he was going to be a transition transitional president, you know, from the old guard to this new guard. He wasn't going to be an eight year guy. He kind of ran as if I'm going to be a four year guy. So hold that commitment and get out. And Jill, I think, because I'd argue of Joe's mental state, Jill is the only one who can do that. And she's not. And that's why it begs the question, is it really about Joe or is it really about Jill's desire to continue to be the president of the United States? Right. And I also think it's interesting how you said something, Michael, you said

you said that you told Anderson Cooper, if we don't think we can win with Joe, then we should think about, you know, Jill or whoever this little small kitchen cabinet needs to talk to him and get him out. Your primary voters voted for Joe. I know. And, I mean, this is insurrection-y now to suddenly because the poll numbers are bad. It's a threat to democracy, actually. bad and it's a threat to democracy and suddenly because the poll numbers are bad and the world saw what fox news has been seeing for the last two years um did decide to just remove him i just i think it's it's it's not very democratic um and it it feels like the cabals decide for the Democrats versus think about the raucous

debate that the Republicans had, just a raucous debate with the establishment against Donald Trump and Donald Trump still coming out on top and with record numbers. But in any case, here we are. Do you think that he'll step down? Do you think that in the end, the pressure from the Obamas, from the Axelrods and the Jarets and everybody else who's running the show is going to be so huge and the donors that he's going to have to step down? And if he steps down, will it be Michelle Obama? Will it be Gavin Newsom?

What's your best guess? This is what I've been saying. I've been very consistent. The more the press and the blind sources and the pundits do that, then they will double down, the whole family will double down because they, they, they are comfortable in this space. They believe and this is how they think that that this is another chapter in the Joe Biden biography of resilience, the Joe Biden's narrative is getting back up. They believe that because

we've we proved everybody wrong in the primary. We proved everybody wrong in the general that we could that we couldn't be an incumbent president, that we couldn't bring bipartisanship back, that we couldn't win, like we couldn't overperform in the midterms. They believe that everything I blame the Republicans actually for a lot of this. Do you know why? Because if you guys had just done a little bit better, you guys had done it was a 40 year high inflation. I know. All right. Yes. No excuse. This should have been worse than 2010. This should have been worse than 2000 and 1994. Had that happened, Rachel, I bet you that, A, there would have been more guts from people willing to challenge him. And I don't think the decision, I don't know.

Now, they very well may have run, but I think the midterms really said to them. I agree with you. That's part of the superior assessment. Everything's working. Everything's working. We'll be able to be the comeback kids again. everything's working. We'll be able to be the comeback kids again. Will it be, okay, so if they get, so first of all, your prediction is they're not going to get out,

that Jill and Joe are going to stay in. People are going to have to grow a pair. And if they want him to get out, if parties, the only job of a political party is actually not to be democratic in and of itself. It's actually just supposed to win elections. So if they believe, if Bobby Casey's numbers start looking bad in Pennsylvania, I guarantee Schumer will hop in an Uber himself and head down to the White House and beg him. OK, and if that happens,

who is your best guess of who they have to open? They have to open it up. They have to. Now, I think the vice president is extremely talented. But think about Joe Biden. His own president didn't endorse him twice. He wasn't an inheritor twice. He wasn't coordinated twice. He had to go earn it twice on his own after he was. And in my eyes, Obama's not like do the Obama's not like the Bidens. I mean, so so so obama has not campaigned this is a fact michelle obama has not campaigned on behalf of the bidens it's understood that hunter bidens hunter you remember hunter bidens ex-wife is a very good friend of michelle obama

and hunter bidens ex-wife was mistreated by the family. And Michelle apparently has taken the side of the ex-wife and is holding a grudge on, on that. Also on record, Barack Obama was talking to somebody about the Biden family and said that basically they were a show that they were a weird family, which I think a lot of Americans agree with. I know you're not going to say that because you're a loyal staffer for them, but I don't spin, but I know, but there's a lot of weird.

You can refrain. You can refrain. There is a lot of weirdness out there. So will Michelle Obama jump in? Never. No. And I'll tell you this story. You'll find this funny because I think it may have been reported, but during covid when we were getting ready to do our first national interview like it was like april maybe like may we were kind of nervous because she hadn't done a lot in a while like since march i think

in terms of big press interviews i was so nervous the interview was on scene in this morning with berman and camarada and we knew that they were going to be asked about our VP selection. Right. So easy to prepare for what I didn't expect was them to ask about Michelle Obama. For some reason, it just didn't ring because we had just come through this primary and everybody was focused on like,

whether it was going to be Amy or Kamala. We didn't, I didn't think about Michelle Obama because she just wasn't a part of the conversation. So they asked Jill gives a really authentic response. She kind of laughed and was like, oh, God, no, Michelle would never run for politics. She's good at whatever she does. But she's living her best life. That kind of thing. I didn't think anything of it, to be honest with you. I was just glad we got through a great interview. questions about that tara reed thing

all went well and um we got a call 10 minutes later and my boss my chief of staff says anita just called and um anita dunn yeah mrs obama's people did not like the way they closed the door she closed the door so She closed the door. So what are you talking about? I was like, is there something we should know? And he was like, well, we just need to, they're going to send over what they would like us to say in the future. And I said.

Which it was? What would they have liked you to say? What was it? It was something, I saw it reported. And I'm only talking about it now because somebody talked about it. And I think the first lady's office confirmed it. It was like something like Michelle is doing great work with. We vote, we whatever the voting organization. She's good at everything she does.

And like we love like we love. Sounds like sounds like Michelle wants to leave some doors open. Well, I was a little shocked by it because I was I was proud of how the interview went. I was proud for her. And then it was typical that somebody would like rain on like these small little victories. I'm like, but maybe it was Michelle herself. I mean, listen, they're there. Everyone knows there's no lost love between these two women. They're I mean they're friends But they're not like best friends

Frenemies is what we call it You know that They're at different stages in their lives And they have their own different friends Oh Michael you're so good in comms I love it you are in the spin room right now I am not I'm going to ask you a very juicy question

So Great So right now. I'm going to ask you, I'm going to ask you a very juicy question. So, um, so remember what happened in the hearing room with the, the, the staffers who basically recorded a porn, um, a gay porn inside of the hearing room, um, the Senate, I think it was over Amy Klobuchar's desk, if I recall. Is that correct? Yes. It was in that big Senate hearing room. I know what you're talking about. It was disgusting. It was not appropriate. How was that received in the White House? I mean, what was the feeling on Capitol Hill about that? Because to me, I just didn't think our country could go any lower than

that. And the fact that it was passed around and everything else, it's just so embarrassing for our country. I wasn't in the White House then. I think this was what, was this last spring? Yeah. I was out of the White House. I think you're right. I remember because it was on Friday night. I think I was in the CNN green room, to be honest with you, when I found out.

Or when I was being passed around. I mean, it was startling. I think, like, again, you know, advancing technology and enhances like your natural instinct to for risk. Right. And I would never have the guts to do that in a in a Senate office or a hearing room or a at least a or a well lit one. And I, you know, but it seems like people thrive on risk and like recording. I'm not I'm not Joe Biden was going to bring decency back to the White House. And this was this was a Democrat you're going with this i am yes we make all kinds of connections here and we did not bring decency back that was but i would say we had that then we remember we had at the white house in the rose garden we had but sean but sean

gender woman lifting up her lifting up and showing her fake boobs we had cocaine in the white house so i mean i don't know how disappointed have you been or do you have a reaction to all these different moments where Joe Biden and Jill Biden said they were going to bring decency back to the White House? And we have had. This isn't the Capitol, not the White House. Yeah. But Sean, did you feel responsibility for what your staffers were doing

when you weren't around so i mean yes i know how many staffers are are sleeping and hooking up yeah but not not creating porn and put no no no that's what shocking do i do i do i've did listen i can't control people do right that's their own lives but when i would try to hire people that wouldn't do that right right i would try to hire people of a caliber that you know if they did that in a private life yeah you know that's that's one thing yeah and they want to film it and like hopefully they're not going to put you know porn out online but i but to but to do that in the in in the you know, in the Capitol. Yeah. And in a hearing room, it does beg the question, who are they hiring that they would make such bad decisions?

And by the way, you know this, Michael, because you worked in the Capitol staff runs a lot of stuff. They make a lot of decisions. Oh, I i know if they'll make bad decisions to make a a gay porn tape and you know in the senate what other bad decisions are they doing within the power they've been given by their bosses and also michael these are the same people who gay or straight i don't care what you're yeah to do. Yeah, no, I know. The same people who weren't that outraged, who had to be forced to fire this guy. I mean, there was not a lot of outrage on the left like there

was on the right. The same people who were like, those guys who put their feet on Nancy Pelosi's desk, they should go to the gulags forever. But like a guy who has sex over Amy Klobuchar's desk and disrespects they're like all right he should just have like a suspension i mean i i just all of it was just so

so bad you know michael i want to tell you this i've been wanting to meet you for a long time since since you you put out that tweet about me since you're so nasty to me that's not true that's not he's joking with you you know what i'm actually glad that you did it because i i stood by my words no no no i i continue to stand by my words i don't think that that jill biden is doing right by her husband i don't think she's doing right by our country i think he has declined much more since you've left. I think you would agree with that. And I think as he's declined, she's had many opportunities and off ramps that she has failed to take. And I think it does make her look power hungry. I think it reveals a lot about her. Now, maybe she doesn't

want to step down because, you know, listen, there's a lot of corruption in that family. And I think the power of the pardon, the power of of the DOJ and the FBI, which have clearly been working for the Biden family and covering up for a lot of their crimes and for another podcast. Yes, we will. That's another podcast. But I do think that that I do feel very vindicated in that. I think people are seeing what I was, I think, brave enough to say two years ago. I think that you served the first lady well with your advice. I think that you gave good advice to her. It's too bad she didn't that the Biden team didn't take it. And I think you're a lot of fun. And I actually I don't want to have coffee with you.

I do want to have cocktails with you, Michael. Good. I'm absolutely convinced that you and I would have a lot of fun. I did. I did warn them on the plane out to California, out to Caesar, Caesar Chavez Day. I said I turned to my chief of staff. I you know if she has to practice cc play day yeah what happened there that that's actually the best question i said she probably she really like as in a lot like we have the new york times with us we have cnn we have live cameras we have actually four different media markets because it's the central valley here i i don't know if you want to take that chance i wish that look he said he said and then she called me a breakfast taco too

well what's up with that oh boy oh boy she did do you guys remember that oh yeah oh yeah called us were you on staff were you were you working for her when that happened i was but i i was what what what what what happened after that after she called hispanics breakfast tacos it was really interesting and this actually is proof to counter some awful narratives that i was like pushed out or something i was actually like that was uh i was her traveling press secretary so i was always with her in three years that was the first trip i missed i was actually interviewing for a private sector job um but when they left san antonio they were on a a military a smaller military jet not the normal plane and it didn't have internet service they had no idea what was going on like what the reaction

was so i'm here i am sending and sending i'm like we got to do something we got i i pushed for an apology i was like we gotta just apologize apologize to people because no matter what the context was or what she was trying to do, which was bring attention to a local point of pride for San Antonio. That's all she was trying to do. I'm going to disagree with you. She should not apologize. It's like when when Donald Trump said, you know, taco bowls or whatever were the best at Trump on Cinco de Mayo. Listen, I I mock her because, you know, I don't particularly like her and find her very authentic. And so these were perfect moments of inauthenticity. I don't think they were bad natured. I don't think she should have apologized. I think Green goes off ending during the language.

By the way, you're La Rosa. Are you Hispanic or Italian? Now, Sicilian, Sicilian. OK, I would if I could, I would try to say I am because, you know, we're Democrats now. So that's all we care. You guys, this day, that would have really helped you. Yeah, you you were hired on earlier. How do you pull that card in the Democrat field? That's a story for cocktails, too. Yeah, yeah, we're we's a story for cocktails, too. Yeah. Yeah. We are definitely having cocktails together, Michael. I can't wait.

When you come to New York, you've got to let me know. I will. We're going to do cocktails. I find you actually very refreshing. Very, you know, I think you're walking a fine line between, you know, your loyalty to the Biden family, which I can respect, but also somebody who who's trying to tell the truth. And I think that sometimes that can be really hard, a really hard, you know, line to walk in politics.

It is. Yeah. Go ahead, Michael. No, I was, I'm sure you guys know if you, if you take off the Jersey just once and try to be um just clinical and that's what i'm trying to do i'm trying to be clinical about this like i like because i find politics interesting i'm a junkie i find both sides interesting now i did i'm a democrat so i worked for a democrat but i can't say the sky is red when it's blue. I have to say what's bad is bad. What's good is what I believe is good is good. And look, I've taken a lot of heat for it.

And people have not liked that. I've been been candid and I've never attacked the president or the first lady. I adore them. I adore their family. I adore Hunter and his kids. And I love another podcast. Not good grandparents. What? I love them. By the way, she also, another podcast, Not Good Grandparents, what they did to Navy Biden, no bueno. By the way, I will also let you know, even though I was viciously attacked by them,

I was the only, the only person for a year going on TV advocating, publicly advocating for Hunter when everybody in that White House was trying to throw him under the bus. I was his biggest advocate. I still am. And I, you know what? I feel sorry for Hunter. I think that it was really wrong of this family to take an addict who clearly had a lot of daddy issues and a lot of, you know, jealousy issues with his brother and a lot of problems and make him the money bags.

I think that was really, you know, it was not loving. It was not just short-sighted. Again, this is another indication where the family puts power and money ahead of what's right for a family member. And I think that was a shameful moment. Again, another podcast for sure but um i i respect your loyalty to the family because i think that you know in politics loyalty is very very scarce what i what i do think i do think that he you could be a great pundit if you're willing to just speak entirely the truth i think there's a there's a

there's a vacuum there's a space for someone like that if you ask if you ask them to just speak entirely the truth, I think there's a there's a there's a vacuum. There's a space for someone. If you ask if you ask them, I'm sure they would tell you Michael's been. I mean, look, I don't think they they believe I've held back. Let's put it that way. I don't think anybody believes I've held back. I mean, there are some things that I just don't feel comfortable saying because it would be like an invasion. Like I would be sure I respect that. Yeah, that's that's all but politically i will be brutally honest with you politically always always always always well we appreciate that and i gotta tell you michael i appreciate um knowing the history between you and rachel rachel's like my i saw michael on i want him on our podcast i think it's going to be fun and i'm going to ask him about what he tweeted about me we weren't sure that you would say yes right we put the ask in and that you said yes hopefully

this has been as enjoyable for you as it has been for us we've loved having you on the podcast yeah and you know what what's really wonderful i think just to the takeaway from this is politics can be rough and tumble it's dirty you can disagree with people and sometimes you have a job to do michael um and you're defending your your boss but that doesn't mean we have to hate each other we don't have to be nasty to each other and you're not like that at all rachel isn't either but i think a lot of people in this country think they have to hate people because they might get in a political tiff with them and you don't have to you can love and be friends with people that you adamantly disagree with and might fight with them on politics you can actually have a great

relationship with yeah and one quick last thing i remember because i was i was actually in the elevator with you sean i think because your office is in dc is my building as well. I work for a firm called Ballard Partners and Brian Ballard, my boss is, you know, the firm is, you know, Susie Wiles used to work at my firm and Brian is very close to President Trump. And so it was known as like a Trump firm. So I got a lot of flack for going to be the Democrat at this firm. As you know, firms are bipartisan and the best government affair firms are are connected to both sides. But that said, I got a lot of heat just for that, like see a lot of liberals and and people who really came after me for things now saying the same thing. It's hard. It's hard to bite your lip. I'm trying. I'm trying not to do the I told you so thing because I want it's not helpful, but it's frustrating. Oh, just go ahead and do it. I'm doing I told you so thing because I want it's not helpful, but it's frustrating.

Oh, just go ahead and do it. I'm doing I told you so on Jill Biden. I know you are. But I'm totally I'm totally taking a victory. They don't make it easy on the people who are trying to help them. Let's put it that way. The vote cover. That's a fair, fair point. I'm sitting in the green room at Fox and Friends. First time I'm doing it, I'm going on. I knew I was going to defend her. And then this thing comes out at 5 a.m. And I'm like, what? I need a raise. Someone has to pay me more for this. It's too hard. I'm just a volunteer. Not even. Exactly. Exactly. All right. Well, you know, listen, Michael, we'll do this again um we have thoroughly enjoyed uh

having you on the podcast and again i do think you you do i i appreciate the line you walk um you know trying to still be loyal to your old boss and also trying to kind of go hey there's there's some problems here and i want to talk about them and frankly when you talk about them people can learn from that and hopefully make some better and different decisions so we appreciate you um coming out and being so much fun and again i would like to get him on pop culture roundup on fox and friends i bet you i bet he'd be really good at that too i would love you'd be willing to do that absolutely whenever you want sure right as long as you don't say that rachel's fat you'll be fine i I never would. I was accused of that.

Oh, I saw something about that. There was something. It was very, I was, I said, we broke it down. It's actually that podcast is doing so well. We broke down what happened in that moment on I said she looked great when she was doing the Jillian Michaels workout. And all of a sudden, to your point,

these, these, these pressers all of a sudden said, I said that Rachel looks fat. I like what are you talking no no no to be fair he said i never looked better than when i was doing that thank god i love him so much we've been married 25 years and it just i didn't even i didn't even think about it like it didn't even occur to me to be upset and then the press ran with it it was kind of funny well you get that you understand you worked in in a press office i get it um you did your best you defended jill biden even though i was right in that moment even though she's indefensible you you have a a love story very similar to theirs uh well that you know and look i love that you found the positive side of that

i just want you to know that if if sean begins to mentally decline and he's in in in any job, but particularly in a political job, I will want to spend as much time with him as possible. The cutoff will be if I have to walk up those short steps on Air Force One and not. I love Sean too much to do. I love Sean too much to do what Joe Biden did. Trust me, Rachel, one weekend at Camp David could change your mind. You might you might think it is. It must be really nice. Oh, it's the only thing that I miss.

I did four weekends there. I loved it. It's the only thing I miss. I'm sorry. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love that you shared that details.

And you're absolutely right. The perks of the office are difficult to give up. And I do think that's what's happening to Jill in this moment. So, Michael, listen, you are a great guest. We need to have you back. I really appreciate you being such a great sport and sharing

your insights. I think you've done a really good job of giving us a little bit of a view into that and into their world, into Biden world, into Jill world, into Dr. Jill's world. So thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. We appreciate you on the kitchen table. You're the best. Thanks. You got it. Bye. Bye. We'll have more of this conversation after this.

Well, that was a fascinating podcast. after this. Well, listen, Rich, that was a fascinating podcast. I thought he was, as you mentioned, really, really good. And I loved the conversation between the two of you on the tweet. And by the way, I would have thought that it would have come from Joe Biden. And he dispelled that thought and said, no, no, he did it on his own because he was angry at what you said about his boss. he was defensive of her which again that made you like him a little bit because you know that a loyal staff is important in politics um and it goes back to this sean the real villains in this are the media they're the ones that we're supposed to report it's not michael la rosa's um job to throw say hey i work with jill biden and um joe biden is not doing well and it's not

his job his job he did his job which was to defend the first lady and and promote what they want to put out there it's the job of the fourth estate of the of the press to look at what's happening and report accurately and tell the truth and when i told the the truth two years ago, what we all knew, that they were keeping him off the campaign trail because they all knew that he was in decline, even back then. And he continued to decline. And there were real life consequences, Sean. What happened in Afghanistan, people died. 13 heroes died. Dozens of others lost limbs because this man was not up for the job. And what it, what it reminds me of is Rachel's motto. The lie will not pass through her lips. That's right.

And she will not apologize for telling the truth. And this was a great example of that. So again, we appreciate Michael joining us. He said, this is, he said to me off camera, he said, the next two or three weeks are going to be just history making, you know, yeah, they're going to be huge. And he said, if you if anyone needs me to come back, if you want me to come back to give a little more insight into where the Bidens are coming from, please call me and we will. I love it. Well, listen, if you like this podcast,

you can rate, review, subscribe, wherever you get your podcast. You can always find us at FoxNewsPodcast.com as well as Spotify, Apple, wherever you get your podcasts. We're there, too. So grab us, like us, subscribe to us. Get a notice every time we drop, which is every Wednesday, Thursday and Friday. Thanks for being with us at our Cabin Kitchen table over this Fourth of July week. We appreciate it. Have a good day. Bye, everybody.

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