From the Kitchen Table: The Duffys - Kirk Cameron On His Journey With Love, Marriage & The Carnivore Diet

Episode Date: January 5, 2024

What's the key to a successful marriage? How do you handle having doubts about your faith? How can you make your butter at home? Sean and Rachel are joined by their good friend and 'Growing Pains' actor, Kirk Cameron, to help answer these huge questions.   Kurt weighs in on false narratives the food industry could be telling us, why the carnivore diet has improved his life, and how he's working to ensure kids across America have access to books that will nurture their minds.    Follow Sean & Rachel on Twitter: @SeanDuffyWI & @RCamposDuffy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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at the kitchen table we're already excited for our next guest. We're a little giddy today. We actually had to stop. We had to tell Sean and our next guest, to stop talking because they just keep going. I'm like, we've got to start the show and put this on the podcast.

Our next guest is, if any of my friends are listening, they're still impressed. I do know Mike Seaver. We my friends are listening, they're still impressed. I do know Mike Seaver. We are friends. We do go out to dinner. The four of us. We can call Kirk Cameron as well. So, Kirk, welcome to the show.

But he came up on the screen, and his screen name is Mike Seaver, which is awesome. Yeah, we love that. So, Kirk, the last time we saw you we went out to dinner so we've gone to dinner a few times and it's just so much fun because i don't know what it is there's a bromance between sean and kirk um they connect on a lot of interesting levels um and the last time we we talked well this is sounding really mysterious already, Sean. Rachel was there. There was a carnivore farm butter

candle making connection I can't even get into. So sadly, Kirk showed interest in my crazy side and I started going about, I'm making my own butter. I've got flint and steel. I'm making my own butter I've got flint and steel I'm like I'm making my own sauerkraut I want to get egg and we had this you know kind of wild round conversation which we're getting some other parts of that conversation as well but before we get

to the podcast you're telling me you made your own butter yeah yeah so this is starting to sound right like okay there's so many jokes that we could I can just I can hear them coming all Yeah. So this is starting to sound right. Like, okay. There's so many jokes that we could, I can just, I can hear them coming all already. Romance, making your butter. Like, okay. This is, this is not that, you know, I'm getting red now. I'm getting a little awkward. Like, like, like New York, York, but like New York, cool.

Yeah. But family, you know, Virginia, Arkansas, Tennessee, um, right there. Right. And I'm, I'm out here in California thinking, you know, what is the future going to be like in five years? And if we really want to be about family with six children and you guys have got nine, we had this discussion about how do we start to lay down some foundations so that in five years, if conditions are not what we would hope they would be, we would have an ability to link arms together as families and people with like minds and values to be able to really have some great community left. And you were like,

hey, I want to learn how to do stuff. You know, I want to make sure I know how to change my own flat tire. I want to make my own butter. I want to have access to food and water and energy and things like that. I'm like, you know, this is all great stuff. It kind of brings out the lumberjack in me. It brings out the Braveheart in me. It brings out the provider protector in me. And I'm like, I'm all about a piece of land and some chickens with a cow and a pig so that I can make my own bacon, make my own ribeyes, make my own sunny side up eggs and make it happen. So I've been learning how to do some of this stuff. I got a little reminder on my email that I sent to myself and it's been coming up on

because I keep putting it on snooze. So I've actually made a bunch of butter for my family and I've got a whole bunch of sauerkraut in my pantry that's bubbling away. And it is great. I can't wait to dig in and eat it i'm getting too excited by the way that's what i have in my refrigerator i have a lot of sauerkraut i have butter i have some can't he made candles also he just started making ice cream i the last night i made ice cream for the first time there's all these preservatives and crap and ice cream

and i'm like i want to make my own ice cream that that has less less less sugar and whole milk and cream and real cream and it tastes awesome so that's why we're gonna start doing bread too i know it is really good and but but and again i think at dinner i was like i'm gonna learn how to do stuff i think i I'm going to learn how to do stuff. I think I said I was going to learn how to do shit this year. Because I think as men, this is really an honest conversation. As men, we kind of lost the art of knowing how to do things as things have become really easy in the world. And you can just go to the store and someone does it for you. And we've lost the art of being able to take care of ourselves should things go wrong. And I think as heads of household, I'm talking about the patriarch, which I'm not. The patriarch exists at this kitchen table.

This kitchen table. We should know how to take care of our families. We should know how to do stuff. That was kind of the whole part of our conversation. I loved it because you and I were singing off the same sheet of music. By the way, did you get Flint and Steel? Not yet. I actually do have Flint and Steel.

Yes, sir. Not only that, Sean, you need, you need. Yes, sir. I got a truck top tent. I got a truck top tent. I made a five day road trip with my uncle, who's a retired deputy sheriff from Tennessee back to California because I had to get my newly purchased Ford Raptor truck with a truck top tent all the way back to California. And rather than shipping it, I thought I'm going to tailgate with a Coleman stove

when I eat my grass fed, grass finished beef with my uncle and sleep in my truck top tent at all the KOAs across the nation, I got to see the most beautiful parts of Oklahoma, Arkansas, Texas, Tennessee, New Mexico, and Arizona. It was great. Loved it. So, Kay, on the pop-up tent, is this one that sits on top of the topper on your truck? pop-up tent, is this one that sits on top of the topper on your truck? Yeah, it sits on top of the bed rack, which is up at the level of the top of the cab. Yeah, so you're up high, you know, so if it's raining, and actually it was raining and snowing, you're out of the cold, you're out of the wet, and you're up in there in your zero degree mummy bag, and it's awesome. But that's me. I'm an outdoors camping guy i have a friend i have a

friend who has one and if a bear comes calling you know you're you're up six feet off the ground seven feet off the ground you're you're you're in a little better position than if you were on the ground so did you did you buy a farm while you were out in tennessee no i didn't no no i've been i've been looking and there's so much beautiful land in middle Tennessee and eastern Tennessee. But, you know, I want to be fairly close to a good market because I don't have all of the raw ingredients to stock my own fridge yet. But, you know, that little house on the prairie life is looking more and more appealing. The more I see these crazy things happening politically, economically in our country. So maybe it's just a pipe dream or maybe it's going to be reality. I don't know.

You know, I think on those things, again, Rachel and I, we've talked about this a lot and we talked about it with you. We've been looking for farms in different locations and, you know, our plan continues to evolve, but we are actively looking because I do think that you want a little extra space to, again, if you want to, you probably in California where you live, you probably can't have pigs, chickens, and a cow. Your neighbors might not like that so much. And here where we live as well. So you got to have some extra space where you can make these things happen and it comes down to getting away from the city and having a farm to do it um so we haven't made our purchase yet but we we keep looking and we want to in 2024 that's one of the commitments so the other thing that we you guys talked a lot about when we had dinner last time and you actually alluded to a little bit during your camping trip, was red meat.

You're a carnivore, and there's a reason. Why don't you kind of unpack that a little bit? So, yeah, I love meat. It's funny. Some people seem to think I'm a vegetarian for some reason. I don't know where they get this from. It might be from an old Tiger Meat magazine. Maybe when I was 14, I was really into salad. But no, if it has eyes and it's looking back at me, it should run because I'm about to put it on my plate. I had a great shirt that I used to wear around as a t-shirt that said PETA across the front, you know, P-E-T-A. And then underneath, it explained that acronym's letters as People for the Eating of Tasty Animals. And then on the very back, the slogan,

I believe there's room for all of God's creatures, dot, dot, dot, right next to my mashed potatoes. And I love pouring this into Starbucks, where people would first give me the great big high five. Yeah, bro. And then they'd read the rest of it and be like, really? Really? I'm like, yes, we're having a barbecue in the house. You wore that to Starbucks? You're welcome to come on over to my house.

I was going to say, we found out we had a mutual friend, Dr. Sean Amira, who's from the broader Minneapolis-St. Paul area, who is a proponent of a carnivore diet. And as we were talking about it, and you were talking, we're like, do we know the same guy? And then I brought the dinner table. By the way, he has done the podcast. If you haven't listened to the podcast about the carnivore diet with Dr. Sean Amera, it's fantastic. And he lays out the case for eating meat. And it's awesome. But I think that was interesting. He's my sister's doctor. And you know him too, Kirk. And you really think that this is a good diet. It's not fully carnivore. There's fermented, which is why you have sauerkraut in your refrigerator. But there's fermented vegetables

in it and a few other things. I think butter and that kind of stuff. Yeah. So I'm 52 years old and I don't want to just get older. I want to get better. And I think that we're whole people, body, mind, and spirit. We've always told our kids that, you know, you can't separate out and say, well, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm okay mentally,

but spiritually, I don't have to worry about things. and say, well, you know, I'm okay mentally, but spiritually, I don't have to worry about things. I think, no, I think we're actually a spirit connected to God. We're made in God's image and he's given us a body and he's given us a mind. I'm not a mind with a body. I'm a spirit with a mind and I live inside of a body and all of this works together. And you got to be healthy everywhere. So I want to be healthy with the way that I eat and lifestyle as well, too, because I got grandkids

on the way. My daughter just told us at Thanksgiving that she's pregnant, which means I am a grandfather. People say, no, no, no, Kirk, you will be a grandfather. When will you be a grandfather? I say, no, no, I am. My grandson is in the oven right now and he's baking away for the next nine months. And when he comes out, he's going to be a handsome little devil. I just know it. And I already am a grandfather. So I want to be able to do as much as I can for as long as I can. And I think that we've been sold a bill of goods with regard to health and so many other things. I mean, we could go down the road and say, do we really trust the food industry with their food pyramid? Do we really trust all of these organizations that have so much money to make from big pharma, big food, big everything? Or do we need to start saying what makes sense for me and what is working and what seems to be in line with what's natural and good? And that's the path that I'm choosing to go down. You know, Kirk, it's a really good point because I think if you look over the course of the last 40 or 50 years and all of these great scientists and all this wonderful government involvement in telling us what we should eat, because all the things of the past were bad. Dairy is bad.

Meat is bad. Salt is bad. Eggs are bad. What we've seen is Americans with all this great information from doctors and government, that's right, what happens is Americans have become way fatter and way sicker. So when we go, you guys don't know what the hell you're talking about because people are less healthy when they eat what you tell them to eat. So you go back to these basics like you're talking about, which is we eat natural, good, healthy foods that includes meat, which brings me to my

question. Since you started the carnivore diet, do you feel better? Do you feel like you have more energy? Do you feel like you're a healthier Mike Seaver slash Kirk Cameron? Yes, my goodness, yes. And I'm not getting some kickback from carnivore you know carnivore.org or something like that um i simply have uh actually reason to be concerned about heart health right so like i'm a 53 year old man and uh cardiovascular health is an issue and i've actually been wanting to get off of some of the cholesterol medicine that i've been taking for years because that's the paradigm right is cholesterol has got to come down. Well, if you look at the history of that, that low, that number keeps getting lower and lower. And that simply just increases the customer base for the pharmaceutical

companies that are selling statins. And it turns out that all new research is showing very different results that have intrigued me. And I actually believe that the opposite of many of these markers are really true. So I think that the diet that I'm eating, which consists of animal products, that's organ meat, that's muscle meat, that's snout to tail combined with fermented vegetables, that's beef, butter, bacon, eggs, chicken, fish, bison, elk, yogurt, kefir, milk, all of that is the most nutrient-dense stuff we can get our hands on, way more than plant stuff. And I've never felt better. My health markers from my glucose levels, insulin levels, my blood pressure, my cholesterol, my everything else is so much better. And then my energy levels are like laser flat, awesome all day long, not the up and down, up and down. Sleep is better. Mental clarity is better.

Everything is great. But the problem is no one will really tell you that on a large scale, because that doesn't make big food companies or medical companies any money. Right. But I've found that it's been absolutely great. So I'm going to go with it. But talk to me in a year and see how I feel. And I could give you more data. We'll have more of this conversation after this. From the Fox News Podcasts Network, subscribe and listen to the Trey Gowdy Podcast, more data we'll have more of this conversation after this from the fox news podcasts network subscribe and listen to the trey gowdy podcast former federal prosecutor and four-term u.s congressman from south carolina brings you a one-of-a-kind podcast subscribe and listen now by going to foxnewspodcasts.com no i i believe you um i i know a lot of people who i mean we are kind of sort of doing that not as much

meat because i i just said more i i feel like we had this brownie someday calls your name that's true yeah kirk knows me well enough to know that i love dessert so there's that um but there's also i grew up on a mediterranean diet which was you know it definitely had meat and dairy and cheese and olives. And I just feel like I need a little more balance. But my sister pretty much eats the way you eat, Kirk, and she feels and looks fantastic. So I have no doubt that it does work. And going back to what Sean was talking about, it's not that these scientists, you know, starting in, I don't know, the 50s and 60s thought they were smarter than the way our grandparents ate. It's that they were getting

bought out by companies. These government scientists that were putting out these food pyramids that were telling everyone that suddenly eggs were bad or red meat is bad or you got to watch your cholesterol. There is this terrible nexus between pharma and big pharma, big government, big food. And the results are just obvious. I mean, have you seen those pictures that you'll see sometimes on the Internet of, you know, just a random picture of people at the beach in the 1970s versus people at the beach right now? I mean, we are fatter and sicker and more unhealthy. And it's just visually obvious that that's the case. And we have to ask ourselves, why is it that people that go to Europe and, you know, eat bread, don't get fat, actually end up losing weight? There's

something in the genetically modified grains. You know, it's something, you know, it's so crazy is how we have a media system that actually wants to tell us things that are so counterintuitive to actually reverse what you just said. You're saying we're getting so much fatter, we're so much unhealthier. No, no, no, no. Fatter is actually healthy. In fact, we want you to love being fat and don't fat shame anybody, even though we understand that visceral fat and obesity and body mass index and all that kind of stuff are the prime markers for whether or not you're going to keel over from a stroke or a heart attack or cancer. But no. Yeah, absolutely. And I see what we hear. And it starts so early. I mean, I really think if we were ever to go, you know, if Sean was president right now, if Sean was the president and I was an influential first lady, which I think I would be.

Probably I can attest you would be whether I like it or not. The first thing I would start with is breastfeeding. We breastfeeding. The fact that we don't prioritize it, the fact that we have all these breast cancer awareness stuff, and they never tell women that breastfeeding actually decreases their chance of getting breast cancer, there's a reason why we don't know that. That is because a lot of people make money off of formula. You're putting into Similex market share. Exactly.

But what we're also doing by putting babies on Similac, on fake milk, is we're just starting the conveyor belt right from right out of the womb, putting them on processed food. This is processed. That is, so it has to start at the very beginning. And by the way, the spiritual part of not breastfeeding, that bonding and connection that happens that is so primal and spiritual, frankly, all of it, we start from the very beginning.

We get it wrong. Yeah, I think that you're so right. And that actually has a very close connection to me when you're talking about companies wanting to have you and I as parents transition over to dependence upon other people for something as basic as feeding our children food. I mean, God gives, I think, the most perfect food on the planet, which would be a mother's milk for her child that has contains all of what that child needs to live in these early portions of a child's life. And there's nothing healthier or more perfectly designed for that baby yet. They're going to say,

no, no, no. You're not designed. You're not really, you need to switch over to this other kind of stuff. And then when you're done with that, we're going to go to Gerber Foods. And you know, that's exactly what they are trying to do with children's education as well. You mom, you dad are not qualified and licensed to educate your children, even though God gave them to you, not the government school system. So you need to hand them over to us in preschool and beyond. And not only that, we are going to actually take over whether or not your child

is really a boy or a girl. And we're going to be in charge of their gender too. And we're going to be in charge of what their spiritual beliefs are too. And they need to start when they're young, because that gets them on the conveyor belt that you just talked about. Yes. Can I just say one more thing? Because I know I'm going to be the, I'm going to be the first lady who champions breastfeeding. Because, you know, you know, our friend, Nicole Sapphire, who is a doctor who deals with breast cancer and radiology and all that kind of stuff. She was skewered during the pandemic. Remember, there was a shortage of breast milk, I mean, of a formula and people were, you know, freaking out, which, by the way, I did

have a child who had to have her milk, my breast milk supplemented because she had downs and she had feeding issues. So there were some needs for that. There are definitely circumstances for that kind of milk. And we had adopted children. Our first four kids were adopted. Yeah, you get it. But she came out during the pandemic when that shortage happened. And she said, yeah, we need to get the supply chain going. Yes, this is a problem. But by the way, the reason we're in this situation is because not enough women are breastfeeding. And she got skewered for that. And I always appreciate her honesty. Yeah. No doubt. Listen, so Rachel and I, so we want to talk about fame. So Rachel and I had a chance to

do reality TV back in the day. And there's a little tiny bit of fame that came back in the day from doing MTV's The Real World. But it's nothing compared to what you had on Growing Pains as Mike Seaver. I mean, you were in everyone's homes for, what, seven years on this show playing this character. for, what, seven years on this show, playing this character. You probably couldn't get a gallon of gas or a gallon of milk or go to the mall and get a T-shirt without everybody knowing who you are. You were incredibly famous. What was it like being a young man in his teens going into his 20s, navigating fame at your level?

Let's see. I'm trying to remember. That was a while ago. Just so you know, Kirk, my friends are still really impressed that I know you. Just so you know. Well, you know, my friends are impressed that I get to talk with you guys. You're news anchors, and I'm, like like talking to both of you at the same time. And how cool is that?

I'll get to the answer to your question, but I just want to say, do you know how cool it is for people like me and the others who watch you guys to see you as a married couple, you've got nine kids, you value the things that God values. You value the things that we want to value. You're leaning into it. You're talking openly about it and you're able to work together. I mean, that's, that's something really rare and special. And it really like, it makes us feel good to see it. And so whatever you're doing, keep, keep, keep doing it. It's really inspiring. We still, we still like each other after

working together and having nine kids together we do love each other most most of the time we like each other not this morning we had a little argument about that that was yesterday morning it was yesterday morning oh no no it was this morning it was this morning we were fighting about the podcast actually this morning she started yelling at me i'm like why are we yelling i don't know it's latin it's latin yelling at me i'm like well before you start feeling too good about yourself um rachel did say privately that it has to do with a lot of forgiveness and my wife is also an expert in forgiveness i have given her so many opportunities to perfect the art of forgiveness and that is why we are still married after 42 years. We just want them to be, you know, really wonderful.

And you're right, perfect forgiveness for us because we know that about that. That's right. But let's come back to what it was like being so young. It's got to be really challenging. And really, I think there's a lot of people who get tweaked by it, Kirk. They become, you know, they end up with a lot of problems. You have not. You navigated it really well.

But what was it like to be that guy, that young and that famous? So when I think back about the Growing Pains days, it is kind of surreal. Because today, I'm a husband. My wife and I have been married for 32 years. We live in a kind of a rural part of California outside of Los Angeles. We've got six kids and day to day, we're just doing our thing. I'm not living the Hollywood lifestyle. I'm not driving around, you know, as an icon for the lifestyles of the rich and the famous. But I do remember the limos and the sunglasses and the 1980s and the Tiger Beat magazines and all of the screaming crowds of 14 year old girls outside the set of Growing Pains. And it was kind of crazy. But to me, if you can think from my

perspective, that was the only teenage life I had ever lived. And I didn't have another normal to compare it to. I was just trying to navigate it as I was in the middle of that storm. And I had a lot of friends who went down different roads. And I grieve for the roads that they went down. And I can say that the pressures for a teenage actor with so much money, so much drugs, so much opportunity, you can go down the wrong road very easily. And there are adults who will lead you down those roads because many of them have personal gain. They can profit in ways by just letting you. Fortunately, I had a mom and dad who were really hands-on. My mom was on the set with me and my sister Candice on her show, Full House, as much as she could be. And then a really amazing thing happened. When I was 17 years old, which was right at the peak, the apex of the popularity of growing pains, where I really might have gone off the rails, I had an experience where I followed a cute girl to church.

I go inside as an atheist, not believing anything that I was hearing, but leaving after listening to the side of the road at 17 years old, Mike Seaver and all of his fame and success, thinking about the fact that one day I would die. And if there really is a God and a heaven, I knew I would not be going there because I had essentially given the middle finger to God and mocked anyone who believed in invisible beings hiding behind clouds, keeping score of the wrong and the right. That just sounded like a grown-up version of Santa Claus to me. He's making a list. He's checking it twice. He's going to find out who's naughty or nice. And, you know, he doesn't just bring coal if you're bad. You actually go to hell. I thought that whole thing was just kind of crazy.

But when I began to examine what's the origin of life of the universe, what's the justification for truth and beauty and goodness? When I began to think about Einstein and others who were not atheists, but actually said that it required the existence of God for any of this to make sense, I began to be more inquisitive. And I thought, I'm just going to pray. And I just asked God to show me what's real and what's true. And I wanted to find out more. And so I started reading the Word of God, the Bible, and that began to change me on the inside. And I became persuaded that Jesus is who he said he was, that he really did rise from the grave, and that Easter is a real thing.

And that became the paradigm from which I began to live my life. And when I look back after 35, 40 years, I can say that I didn't find God as an atheist in Hollywood because God wasn't lost. I was lost. And I can't even imagine where I'd be today if God hadn't found me. And I'm so grateful. That's how I handled and navigated success as a teenage star and didn't wind up, you know, with my mugshot, holding a gun, you know, at a liquor store on a tabloid magazine is because God has been very kind and gracious to me.

Kirk, can I ask you something practical? How important was it that your mom was on the set all the time? I mean, like, I think I heard, I watched a, listened to a podcast not too long ago. I think I might've mentioned it to you when we went out to dinner of a young actor and he talked about some of the bad things that happened to him on set and he had been damaged before he got on the set but he basically talked about how there were people on set who were really good at identifying you know prey if you will like they were able to he talked a lot about how there were grownups who hurt children and they knew which ones they could have access to and they could manipulate, and particularly those that had already been hurt

before. So how important is it just on a practical level, if you have a child that wants to be part of this world, that you as a parent have to be there all the time? Oh, absolutely imperative. There is no one who loves your children more than you do. At least there shouldn't be. And you cannot entrust these little hearts and these little minds and souls to those who don't have their best interest in mind. And you can think of other industries where it would be dangerous to just let your kids run out from underneath the umbrella of your parental protection. We don't send children out to war. We protect them and we train them for one day when they go into battle. And that certainly is the case if you're getting into the entertainment industry, the political industry, so many industries.

Certainly is the case if you're getting into the entertainment industry, the political industry, so many industries. Parents, sometimes they see gold, you know, they see stars and dollar signs when they look at their cute little kids who might have some talent. And sometimes they send them into these industries and, you know, hey, let's let's be a good, good family. And our child will be a light in the darkness when really what ends up happening is that the light within that child is snuffed out and they become filled with darkness because their parents are not paying attention or maybe have ulterior motives. So the fact that my mom was there with me, with Candice during those early formative years, during growing pains and full house was one of the greatest gifts ever. And my mom and dad always told me, look, if this is not good for you, if this is not healthy, if this is not a blessing and taking you good in a good direction, then we'll be out tomorrow. This is only if this is a positive. The minute it becomes a negative in your life, it's not worth it. And I'm so glad that they felt that way. Probably the greatest positive of you having done that show is that you got to meet

your wife, the beautiful Chelsea Noble, who was, I guess, what do you call it, like a recurring character on the show. And then you guys ended up getting married. You do have a remarkably, especially in Hollywood world, long relationship. What'd you say? 34? Did you say 32 years? Yeah, 32 years. That's right. So what's the secret? Like we are our listeners love hearing about marriages and relationships that work. And so what do you think? I mean, besides the fact that she's obviously must be an amazing person. And every time you talk about her, it's obvious that she is. But what is the secret to a great marriage? One that's long lasting like yours?

I so I so want to give you the right answer. And I don't know that that I'm going to be able to do that right now. But what I can tell you is that the longer I live, the more it becomes clear to me. It comes into focus what's really important. And at the end of the day, all that really matters is loving God and loving one another. It's not about what kind of a career I am able to secure or how much money is in my bank or the houses I have. What really, really matters is what Jesus said is the two most important things in all of life. And that is to love God with all

of your heart. I mean, we were designed for that. If you don't worship God, you're going to worship something else and everything else that you try to worship, whether it's money or your ego or your accomplishments or even your children or even your spouse, they will all eventually let you down. And the worship of anything else will ultimately wreck you. It will destroy you because idols don't provide and they don't protect. And we can turn lots of different things into idols. We are worshipers by design and we're going to worship something. And if we love God with all of our heart, it leads to blessing. And then everything else falls in its place. And the second most important thing, loving one

another. And if you're married, there's a one flesh relationship with my wife that is unlike any other. It is absolutely exclusive. People love to talk about the virtues of inclusiveness today and diversity. And in the right context, yes, God's made incredibly diverse things. And, you know, the kingdom of God is made up of every race, every tribe, every nation, every tongue, nationality, male, female, everything. But when it comes to marriage, that's exclusive. And that is me and my wife and nobody else. And when you understand that, and that kind of special love that's reserved only between a man and a woman in the context of marriage, and that normally produces children, the product of that one flesh, you see it with your own eyes. Wow. You see it with your own eyes. Wow. That serves as the foundation and the inspiration to fight through all the difficult stuff. And I would say faith in God that you share together with a common standard. And for us, that's the word of God and what it says about marriage is absolutely essential. Because feelings go up and down.

And if we go based off our feelings, oftentimes we would give up and give up on the most important and sacred things that God gives us. And so faith in God and then understanding that God and family are the most important things in life. And when we're sitting on our deathbed, those are the things that we're going to really wish that we had leaned more into. And I'm committed to those things. And so is my wife. You know, I think it's interesting that a foundational structure that starts with God

is really important. And I'm glad you brought that up. But I think for a lot of people, and especially young couples sometimes think that, and maybe I did too, marriage is kind of easy or it can be easy. And there's a lot of really wonderful things. But, and we talked about this a little bit, I think we were at dinner, but it comes with some, I mean, there's conflict, there's fighting, there's compromise, there's forgiveness. There's all these things that happen in marriage that are beautiful and wonderful things. And anything that's worthwhile does take effort, does take work.

You know, probably less on my part. Rachel has to work a lot harder. I can tell this conversation says, Rachel's a lot of work. No, it's I'm a lot of work for her, a lot of forgiveness that she has to offer. But I do think that's really important. Again, we say this is a marriage between three people, the two of us and God. And what he unites, no one can separate. And I think the understanding that there can be challenging times. And if you fall back on, I do love this person.

And I do want to work through this disagreement with respect, unless it's about our podcast and we're going to yell at each other over coffee. It wasn't really yelling at each other. I hate a debate. But I think those things are really important. So, I mean, you must have some disagreement. You must have some fights. And how do you guys navigate that?

Oh, man, you're absolutely right. And it's not the good times and the inspirational platitudes that rip us apart after 10 years, 20, 30 years of marriage. It's the conflict. It's, you know, you're falsely accusing me. It's the you're not valuing me. It's all of the things that we are not aligning on. And how do you deal with those things? are not aligning on? And how do you deal with those things? For me, I believe, because somebody told me this, and I read it in God's Word, that marriage is like a school where I learn how to become more like Jesus. I learn how to lay down my so-called rights in order to serve someone, even someone who may be injuring me. Now, this isn't justification for spousal abuse or domestic abuse. If you're experiencing that, call 911 and go get some professional counseling and help. But so many people are focusing on their rights, focusing on what it is that I deserve, and they're promoting a culture of rebellion in their own marriage.

And I've said, wait a minute, I see Jesus on a cross. He was perfect and sinless, and he's laying down his life for his bride, the church. He's taking responsibility in order to put his arms around the whole thing and bring about wholeness and healing by his own sacrifice. And I'm called, by God's word, to be like Christ and love my wife the way Christ loved me. How does God love me? Well, he loves me selflessly and sacrificially. If I can say that's got to be my mindset. And by the way, I'm not Jesus. So I've got responsibility in this when there's conflict.

I've probably got most of the responsibility. I need forgiveness. I don't want God judging me based off my performance. That would be the worst thing. I want him to love me based off his unfailing commitment to me. And that's how I need to be loving my spouse. And my wife is such a beautiful, shining example of this. And that's how we get through conflict is, what does God call me to? And am I loving you the way God is committed to loving me?

Because that's what we want. We'll have more of this conversation after this. So when I think of it, so first of all, it's so funny because you're like, you know, when we get in a conflict, most of it's my fault. I went to dinner with a group of nuns and my friend Raymond Arroyo, and one of the nuns said, you know, whenever I get in a fight with my spouse, I know it's always my fault. Which was awesome. So it kind of reminded me of that. Why is it that just the idea of Raymond Arroyo and a bunch of nuns for dinner is just making me laugh? Oh, yeah. No, no, no no these nuns were awesome they were

in full habit and they liked their limoncello's i'll tell you that so they were they were having a few after dinner drinks and we started laughing she's like yep i know when i get in a fight with my spouse it's always my fault um because i was asking them what it was like to be a nun but i think what happens with marriage i think this is is the thing. Sean likes to talk, we kind of even disagree on how we talk about this marriage. We've had this conversation. Let me, let me share it with you. So Sean, no fighting on your own podcast. I'm turning. We do it all the time right now guys and so it's there i know um so sean thinks it's really important to tell people who are about to get into marriage or thinking about marriage just how tough it can be because it can be i think the problem is we don't talk enough about how great marriage can be

and i think that's the problem which it is and so first of all when it comes to fighting the reason marriage works is because when you're married and you truly are married in the way Kirk that you and your wife are married Sean and I are married and that it is a three-person marriage between you know each of us and God that it's a lifelong for us, a sacrament, um, that it is, you know, it is for life. It changes the nature of your fight. So you can't fight like it just is different. It's when you know, you're going to have to do, you're going to be together forever. You don't fight the same way.

And I, I know so many young couples who are living together, and I feel like they're walking on eggshells in a way, or because they want to make sure it lasts, they're trying to make sure it lasts, and there's no commitment or permanency to it. Or on the other hand, they fight, and then it's like over, and someone moves out, and it's like a mini divorce. It's just, to me, the beauty of marriage is that you can fight, but it changes the nature of fights. I think that's true. Wow. That's a really cool insight, I think. The sacred context of your marriage, because of the way that you view it, changes the way that you fight in it. Man, that makes so much sense in the world. I'll just say this. Maybe later I'll tell you to delete it. I don't know. But when I

got married, I was pretty young. I was 20 years old when I got married. And I remember a lawyer saying, look, when you get married, Kirk, you're on growing pains, you're making money, blah, blah, blah. You probably want to have a prenuptial agreement. And just in case this thing doesn't work out. And I was like, oh yeah, that seems to make sense. And it's Hollywood and all that stuff. And then, you know, this whole spiritual thing came into my life. And I said to myself, you know what, what God has brought together, let no man separate. And if I get divorced after making a commitment into a covenant relationship like this, I have a lot more to lose than just my money. And I just felt in my mind, again, I'm not casting shade on anybody else who has a prenuptial agreement, but ended up saying, you know what, this feels to me like a

backdoor exit and a safety net and almost like I'm planning to fail here. And so I was just like, no, I'm all in. I'm just putting all my chips out front here and I'm all in. And I think that makes me fight differently. Not about, not the, oh, I could lose all my money, but the sacred nature of the marriage in my mind is I don't have a backdoor exit with this. And so I am all in with you and we can't, we just can't fail. Now things happen. I understand. But my intention is crashing and burning is not an option. Yeah. For us, divorce is not an option. I actually just had a conversation with a young, a young man that I know who said, was talking about it, you know, a prenup and it was talking about like, he wasn't getting married, but he was just kind of talking about it in a,

you know, when I get married and dah, dah, dah. And I was just like, if you're even thinking about a prenup, this, it's not going to work. So you might as well just not do it because you got to enter it exactly the way you say. And then back to the positives of marriage. Again, I think we don't talk enough to young people. And let's be frank, marriage. How about how great marriage is? Yes, we don't. And it is awesome. It is like there's something so amazing that there are things about Sean that I know and Sean knows about me that no one in the world else knows. No one, no one. It is

just our little thing. And there's something so amazing about that. And just knowing someone has your back and knowing that, you know, I just think we don't do enough of that. And then we wonder why people don't want to get married. In my own defense, I think, again, to live a life that goes, listen, obviously I love being married to you. I love you. We're best friends. We do everything together. I think I live a life that would say, listen, marriage is great.

Yeah. So I think I show that by the way I live and you live. But I also, I think there's this other component to go, be prepared to go. There's some challenges and the reward for getting through those challenges, not throwing in the towel, not saying I give up, not moving out of your house to, you know, I'm going to get a divorce, like to get through those times, which will come in a marriage that if you actually fight through those things and work through those things and love your partner through those difficulties, you get the reward of that hard work, which is a beautiful, great marriage with another human being that you're going to share your life with. So that's why I talk about it. And we do,

Kurt, we do fight about this, actually. We don't fight. We argue about how we talk about marriage quite a bit, which, and that's why I do it. Because I do think it's a wonderful, I mean, it's the greatest institution. I think we have to make the case for marriage and I think we should be honest about it. I'm with you too, but I just think, I don't think it's an either or. I think it has to be an and.

I think we have to talk about the challenges of marriage and the rewards of getting through those challenges. We also have to talk about how much fun it is. I mean, when I think about, I'm sorry, I know a lot of people who are either single or divorced and they're out there in the market and good on them. And I'm glad they're out there. And I often help people in those situations.

I love doing that. I consider myself a matchmaker of sorts. But I don't want to be on the market. To be in my PJs until 2 o'clock with a guy who doesn't care that I have makeup on or not, who loves the way I cook, who loves my crazy, and I have a lot of it. And that's a beautiful thing to get through life and know that you have that. At my age, I'm in my 50s, and I don't want to be on the market. Thank you, Sean. You're welcome.

I don't want her on the market either, Kirk. Oh, boy. So let's just, I want to bring up one last topic for you, and that is children's books. It's an issue that Rachel and I talk about a lot because there is so much garbage. There's a political agenda that's being pushed on our kids from the radical Marxist left. And it is everywhere. And you've partnered with Brave Books and you've come out with a number of wonderful books that are what we used to get in children's literature in your new book, As You Grow, that I believe came out December 1st. It's, again, with Brave Books. Tell us about how important it is that we have good, wholesome literature for kids.

I also want you to talk about Skytree Book Fair. Yeah, you have to talk about that because I have hated scholastics for a long time. My daughter, who's 24, when she was in elementary school, that's when I first started to see some of the negatives and the agendas being pushed through. I mean, I remember getting the scholastic fairs at my school and all of a sudden I started to see a progression to now it's just unbelievable. The kinds of books and some of them are practically pornographic that are being pushed so that you guys are coming in, not just creating books, but creating book fairs that could replace Scholastics for parents

to feel safe and comfortable having their kids purchase books from there and know that they've been, that they're age appropriate. God bless you and Brave Books for doing this. Well, I resonate with everything that you guys are saying. My wife and I have six children, book for doing this? Well, I resonate with everything that you guys are saying. My wife and I have six children and education is what programs their little minds. So they learn right from wrong and good and bad. And they learn about history through the books that we read them. And it's critically important. Conservatives have become professional whiners and complainers about education and culture. Rather than excellent creators of education and culture, we don't seem to be leading in the media. and pointing out who's doing things wrong rather than actually getting out in front and creating channels for our children to go down that lead to their blessing. And so consequently,

we look like a bunch of whiners. And I'm really thankful for companies like Brave Books and people like you who are writing books and doing podcasts, people who are making movies like the Kendrick brothers, the Irwin brothers, people who are writing music and beginning to create culture for our children so that their future looks bright. We've called out Scholastics because they are actually the world's largest publisher and distributor of children's books and curriculum. publisher and distributor of children's books and curriculum. And it's not just Clifford the Red Dog and Stuart the Mouse anymore. It's books like Welcome to St. Hell, My Trans Teen Misadventure, or this book called Rick, which is actually a trans book. It used to be called Melissa, but it was changed to the name Rick because it's actually a trans book or a trans title. And this is another one, Stars in Their Eyes. And in it, you have stuff that can only be described as lewd and pornographic. Some of these have images and

descriptions of underage kids in bed, underage drinking, taking off their clothes, participating in sex acts with full frontal nudity, including instruction manuals for girls on how to take their own hormone shots to grow their own two-inch male unit out of their own pre-existing equipment. And all of this is being given to kids through book fairs and through school libraries, public libraries. And what do we do? Well, what you do is you replace the bad with the good and then you lean into it. And that's what we're doing with Skytree book fairs. We have over a thousand schools in America who have canceled their contracts. I'm sorry.

We have hundreds who have canceled their contracts with Scholastic and replaced them with wholesome book fairs through Skytree. And thousands of schools that are in the application process right now to have Skytree come to their school. And Skytree pulls in the best books from publishers all over the country, including Brave Books, and is getting back to the kinds of books that build kids' character. It's rooted in truth, and it is age-appropriate content that's not going to have gender-confusing stuff. It's not going to have critical race theory, and it's not this socialist Marxist garbage. Amen to that. Amen to that. I can't think of a better cause. I mean, there's so many things that you can get involved with, Kirk, and that you've teamed up with Brave to provide options and alternatives

to parents who really want them and thought they were just stuck with scholastics for their book fairs and to get books. Thank you. I love the idea of going, you know what? Stop being a bunch of whiners. Figure out how you can change the world in which you live in. And again, when I was in politics, I mean, people sit on their couches and throw popcorn at TV. It's like, okay, but what can you do to...

Yes! You're darn right. That's what I'm saying. Homesteading. Right back to the basics faith and homesteading and family all together self-sufficiency I think we should get a farm side by side

so we can all hang out together and we'll have to share realtor names and find those spots together. Listen, Kirk, we appreciate all you do. We appreciate using the voice and the platform that God gave you to share His Word, to share the truth, and to be a light out there for other families, other fathers, other Christians. I think it's really wonderful. And we appreciate your friendship. We appreciate, if I tasted it,

I'd say I appreciated your butter. I haven't tasted it yet, but one day maybe I will. I'm going to give you some ice cream too. And maybe I'll share with you the ice cream maker that I got. I've got a Cuisinart for like $85. You know, there's all these in our $85 moms out there listening to us right now and these preppers who are going you guys don't even know totally

totally totally they're like this was amateur prepper hour but that's okay it starts This was amateur prepper hour. But that's okay. We started as amateurs. It starts, every long journey starts with the first step.

And you guys have both taken the first step towards self-reliance. And I love it. And you start easy. You start with the easy things like butter and sauerkraut. You do those things and then you build upon it. Listen, Kirk, thank you for joining us on the podcast. We appreciate it at the Kitchen Table. We appreciate your friendship and your example. Thank you for being with us. Thank you, Kirk. Make sure that next time you come to our

area, we'll do dinner again. Maybe next time we'll get to meet Chelsea. We'd love to. I can't wait for you to meet Chelsea. You're going to fall in love with her. And I'm looking forward to meeting your whole family and seeing your farm. So thank you for having me on today and keep up the great work. So great to have Crook on the podcast. Such an interesting guy leading such an interesting life. And again, listen, he wears his faith on his sleeve. He promotes it and talks about it, is not shy about it. He's been doing that since the 80s. I mean, he's the real deal. Since the 80s. I'll tell you what, we've gone to dinner with him a couple times, and

I will always take a picture of him. I sent it to my girlfriend, and I'm like, can you imagine if in 1988, if I had said, oh yeah, I'm going out to dinner with Kurt Cameron. Can you imagine what my friends would... I mean, they're still in breath.

So he's a great guy. And our dinner with him was so awesome. And all of a sudden it was this mind meld of Stanley's ideas and self-sustainability. I'm not going to say prepping, but, you know, being self-sustainable. Being ready, being ready for whatever can happen is important. Yeah, he's an interesting guy.

And it's not just being ready with, like, knowing how to do stuff, but also physically and health-wise ready for whatever. And your family. You talk about this a lot. Your family needs to be strong. Yeah, you want to fortify your family, fortify your bonds so that you're a tribe

and you're ready to handle whatever comes your way. That's right. Well, listen, thank you for joining us at the podcast. And again, thanks to our camera, also formerly known as Mike Siever. This is a great podcast. You can rate, review, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can always find us at foxnewspodcast.com. Please subscribe.

You get a notice when we drop. We drop Wednesday, Thursday, and Fridays. And until next time, listen, have a great day. Talk to you later. Bye, everybody. Bye-bye. Listen ad-free with a Fox News Podcast plus subscription on Apple Podcasts.

And Amazon Prime members can listen to the show ad-free on the Amazon Music app. From the Fox News Podcast Network. I'm Janice Dean, Fox News Senior Meteorologist. Be sure to subscribe to the Janice Dean Podcast at foxnewspodcast.com or wherever you listen to your podcasts. And don't forget to spread the sunshine.