From the Kitchen Table: The Duffys - Making America Healthy Again: Food & Family With Calley Means

Episode Date: August 29, 2024

It’s time to make America healthy again! Co-Founder of TrueMed and New York Times Best Selling Co-Author of Good Energy, Calley Means joins Sean and Rachel to share how he’s calling out big government institutions who he believes are leading the charge in poisoning the food industry and the environment. Food quality is an issue that has and will continue to have generational impact on kitchen tables around the country. Calley also notes how former President Trump and Robert F. Kennedy Jr. are bonding over fixing this deficit in the American food industry.   Later,  Sean and Rachel highlight essential memories that are created through gathering around the kitchen table to share a meal. Follow Sean & Rachel on X: @SeanDuffyWI & @RCamposDuffy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everyone, welcome to From the Kitchen Table. I'm Sean Duffy along with my co-host for the podcast, my partner in life and my wife, Rachel Campos Duffy. Hey Sean. It's so great to be here and I'm so excited to have, I would say, a friend of the podcast, Callie Means, join us today. And, you know, we've known Callie Means for a while, but it seems like the world knows about Callie Means over the last week. So Callie, with no further ado, welcome. Welcome to the show. And first of all, congratulations on the book. It's still on the New York Times bestseller list. It is clearly a hot topic and a bipartisan one, which brings us to what's been happening over the last week,

which has been your role in bringing RFK Jr. and Donald Trump together, an endorsement from RFK Jr. And really, this sort of unifying topic was metabolic health, children's health, and our food supply, and all the chemicals in it. So I'll let you take it from here. Maybe you can tell us just where we're at right now. Yeah. So we've talked about this before, Rachel, but just a background on me, a couple of life events really solidified this idea of metabolic health and children's chronic disease being the most important issue in the country. One of them was my sister. I mean, she's top of her class, Stanford med school, rising up the ranks and 12 years into training, she realized she didn't know why one patient, you know, underneath her knife was sick.

years into training, she realized she didn't know why one patient, you know, underneath her knife was sick. She just knew how to cut open and bill and prescribe pills. And then our mom, you know, had, it was on five different chronic disease medications, like most Americans, and then gets pancreatic cancer and abruptly dies and is told by, you know, the oncologist that it was unlucky. All these things happening are not unlucky. You know, the result of very deliberate choices with our food systems and with our basic, you know, metabolic habits, you know, kids are so sedentary right now that 77% of 21 year olds aren't even eligible to join the military. It's a national security crisis. So my sister and I, you know, really vowed after my mom's death to make this the cause of our lives. We've been speaking out, you know, trying to put good energy out there. And, and a lot of people reached out. So you know, we became close with RFK,

the Trump campaign was very interested in these ideas. We've engaged with Democrats, you know, as you said, this is really an issue of corruption, not partisanship. And, and yeah, I was very interested, very lucky to have a small vantage point into this Trump RFK endorsement, I felt the need, very lucky to have a small vantage point into this Trump RFK endorsement. I felt the need, honestly, a spiritual calling after the attempted assassination of President Trump to call RFK, who I've been close with. And we talked about how this might be a moment for unity. He was feeling the same way, helped facilitate that connection.

And again, from a very small vantage point, seeing these two men engage, what I'd really highlight is this was not about polling. This was not about the horse race. This was not about talking about a position or anything transactional. we should bring big topics back to this campaign, that we're debating a bunch of trivia on social media when our kids are getting decimated, when 50% of kids are overweight or obese, and it's a 3% childhood obesity rate in Japan, when 20% of teens have fatty liver disease, when, as you guys know, the mental health epidemic among teenagers right now is not normal. These are the issues these two men talked about. And I think, you know, what you saw on Friday with that endorsement, you know, big ideas have

reentered the conversation, you know, and I think that's very positive. You know, Kelly, that's a really good point because, again, I was in Congress and there's kind of a basket of issues that you talk about, right? We'll talk about what's the tax policy? How big should the welfare state be? How much money should we give to people in times of need? What should we do on the border? What should happen with foreign policy? How much money do the military? How do we deal with crime? Those are the standard issues that we talk about in politics. And I think this unification that you help foster between RFK and Donald Trump is breaking the issue

basket open to say, you know what, there's something far greater that's happening in the country. And maybe it's not bigger than the other issues, but in the sense that it's not talked about and it's a real threat to the country. It's a national security threat, as you mentioned. The fact that we're poisoning our kids and the fact that politicians don't talk about it, I think it's not because they don't think it's an issue, but it's pushed to the sidelines because we've talked about this in the podcast with you before. Big food and big pharma spend so much money, whether it's in the executive branch under the president at the FDA and Health and Human Services, but also in Congress to make sure everybody leaves them alone

and allows them to make big money and still poison the American people. Yeah, I mean, working for pharma, you know, it's really about dictating the rules of the game. That's how we thought about it. There's really this window that people can debate and people can operate, and it's really about moving those windows. And the window we have now is that it's considered a luxury and almost classist to suggest that Americans shouldn't be poisoning themselves. You just had a Time magazine article come out yesterday saying, is ultra-processed food that bad? And saying it's just not responsible, not realistic to suggest that poor Americans can do anything other than ultra-processed food.

So that's the range of debate. Is that what the article said? Yeah, and this was really deliberate, Rachel. I mean, think about this. When it comes to a pharmaceutical intervention, there's no cost too high. There's no wiggle room about what lower income parents should be doing. Medicaid is paying $1.5 trillion for lower income people to take drugs. But when it comes from switching from Lucky Charms to some pasture-raised meat or some broccoli, no, no, no, that's not possible. So that's what the money does. It creates this environment that our leaders exist in. And what I think is so powerful about this childhood chronic disease issue

is I think it hits at the beating core of what we're all kind of feeling. It's what's fueling the MAGA movement, in my opinion. People just can't quite put their finger on it, but something isn't right. Our institutions have been compromised. You know, we're hearing from various politicians that various economic indicators going up,

but people are feeling like it's in decline. And I think that really, really relates to, and I think the power of this childhood chronic disease issue that President Trump and Ofcare are increasingly talking about is that it's a real microcosm of the corruption. It's a real example, a tangible example of how our politicians, of how our trusted scientific community that has led us down during COVID and letting us down here have been co-opted, about how our, you know, academic research has been corrupted. You can really just go technology companies, quite frankly, who carry this water are paid for by the pharmaceutical and food companies, you know, who, you know, don't censor

any information about how ultra-processed food is great for kids. Aren't censoring or fact-checking this Time article. But if you dare question whether a pharmaceutical intervention is appropriate for kids, that's misinformation. So I think this is putting the finger hopefully on the pulse of this big idea. I think the defining moment of our time, which is populist frustration with our institutions, which is correct. When you talk about ultra-processed foods, what are you talking about? I mean, I think I know what the opposite of that is. It's fresh fruits and vegetables and grains and meat. And are you saying ultra-processed foods are anything that's processed, anything you're

getting in a package or a box? What's the definition of that for the layman here? Yeah, we're talking high-level stuff in a box with with ingredients you can't pronounce uh i i liken it really to the the unholy trinity if you see added sugar if you see seed oils or if you see highly processed grains type of enriched wheat you're really in trouble those are three ingredients that are the core of our diet that literally didn't exist 100 years ago. But Sean, the way I really see it with how to define ultra-processed food is that the cigarette industry invented it. So I think this history is very important to understand that in the 1980s, Philip Morris

and R.J. Reynolds were two of the most valuable companies in the world. It wasn't like Microsoft and Google. It was cigarette companies, okay? They're the biggest cash piles of any company in human history. And as cigarettes declined, cigarette smoking declined, they used their cash piles to buy food companies. So in 1990, the two largest food companies were Philip Morris and R.J. Reynolds. And they strategically shifted their scientists, thousands of scientists from the tobacco department to the food department. And they made our food addictive and weaponized. So if you look at the graphs of all chronic diseases,

it's really around 1990, just starts skyrocketing. We came down on cigarette companies for cancer. Cancer rates have gone up an order of magnitude since we started coming down to the cigarette companies and they shifted to food. So when I think about ultra processed food, and we think about that box with those ingredients you can't understand, what you I think about ultra processed food, and we think about that box with those ingredients, you can't understand what you should think about is that is a science experiment to hijack our biology, that literal cigarette industry scientists have added these ingredients together. You know, when you eat steak, you really can't overeat it, we have satiety signals in our body, the ultra processed food and these ingredients we don't understand is a literal

experiment to hijack our satiety and make us want to eat more. And the byproduct of all these chemicals that the cigarette industry also used their lobbyists to basically buy off the USDA and other regulatory agencies to say these are okay, even though they're banned in every other country in the world, is they're crushing our microbiomes. And as we talk about in good energy, they're causing damage to ourselves, our metabolism metabolism in ways we don't even understand. And that's what's causing this autism spike, autoimmune condition spike, all of these conditions that are coming out of nowhere is because these chemicals in our food are just fundamentally dysregulating our cells. So it all goes back to the food industry from the cigarette wanting to make our food

addictive and cheap. We'll have more of this conversation after this bet mgm is an official sports betting partner of the national hockey league and has your back all season long from puck drop to the final shot you're always taken care of with a sports book born in vegas that's a feeling you can only get with bet mgm and no matter your team, your favorite skater, or your style, there's something every NHL fan is going to love about BetMGM. Download the app today and discover why BetMGM is your hockey

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Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. My head is so exploding with so many things that I want to say. So first, I want to go back to what Sean had said, which was how this union of Donald Trump and RFK over this one issue is breaking these barriers. And you're talking about it's exposing the corruption in government and corporation and their collusion in the food industry. But you mentioned big tech. So I think

the fear that I can, I can literally ever since this announcement, palpably feel fear in Washington, D.C. and on the Democrat side, because this also brings a spotlight onto the corruption in our, you know, intelligence industry, in our military industrial complex, in the surveillance that's been going on in America, in the way our elections have been rigged, in the way that it wasn't just Donald Trump's crazy and he says the system's rigged against him. It was done to RFK Jr. and they've united, I think, because of that corruption. So there's all that. Then I was thinking about the article that you described where they basically said it's sort of classist, elitist,

to think that poor people can't eat healthy or think that they can eat healthy. It reminds me of when they say poor people can't get IDs, black people can't get, and Hispanic people can't show an ID to vote. It's the same use of class and racism and all of those things to create an outcome that they want. In the poorest places on earth, they don't try to get processed foods. They eat rice and beans and meat and vegetables and fruit. I mean, because it's the cheapest food. Right. But we've made, no, no, absolutely. We've made the healthy stuff expensive and we've subsidized these food experiments, as you call them, this ultra processed food.

And then we wonder why poor people are getting fat and why their children are suffering at higher rates. It now goes into, I want to talk about something really, I want to take it to a different level. There's a lot of shows that you've been on that talks about how ultra-processed food works, why it's subsidized, the way Washington lobbying works so that that happens, the way media and corporations have been captured so that we don't have these conversations on television. I had RFK Jr. on an interview, which we're going to air in its

complete 12-minute interview. Oh, I broke the the internet rachel it's just an amazing interview i just can't keep hearing about that i saw it all over too scrolling i'm like there's rachel again in rfk yeah my daughters my daughters are health food nuts and one of them's like mom your interview's on my no cdo i know um so it's it's made its way we could only because it's fox and friend that's the format it's about its way. We could only, because it's Fox and Friend, that's the format. It's about a four-minute interview. It's actually a 12-minute. We're going to air it in its entirety on this podcast later this week. But RFK Jr. said to me before the interview, he's like,

I can't believe we're actually doing this interview about foods. And then afterwards, he's like, I can't believe this is going to be on the air. And I'm so proud of Fox for putting it on the air and when it went viral everyone said i can't believe this interview aired so i mean clearly um you know we're breaking new ground on on this topic and part of i think there's a spiritual component and a family component to all of this because we can talk about our physical bodies being hurt by food and the corruption of our food supply, but convenience foods, I think a little bit of the feminist movement, maybe a lot of it, have done a lot to take away sort of the heart of food,

which food always brought us together as a family. I'm going to tell you, in 1965, 95% of all meals were prepared at home. Today, it's dropped by 25% to 30%, but that number is actually kind of deceiving because even though, you know, you have 65%, 70%, maybe 75% of foods prepared at home, many of those products are coming from a grocery store. Exactly. Also, because so many people are eating out and not eating around the table, grocery stores have gotten in on the action and said,

we'll do prepared foods here so that they don't go to, you know, the fast food joint or wherever and do takeout. So let, I just thought, cause Sean and I are big believers in family meals as sort of like, it's literally the studies on what it does for kids is as extraordinary as the studies that you, you refer to on, on actually the food, gathering your family together, doing a home-cooked meal, and having those conversations is part of also making America healthy again, right? Rachel, where my head goes when you speak about that so eloquently is that it's actually the science. We need to follow the science. There's actually nothing more associated with health

than a family that eats meals regularly together. And that is just plummeting in this country. But it really brings many pillars of metabolic health that Casey and I talk about. It's connection, which is deeply important for our health. It's understanding and having appreciation and preparing the food together. Yeah, and I do think there's a spiritual crisis happening. I mean, it's so infantilizing that our traditional media says that Americans are too poor, stupid, and lazy to care about what they're putting in their bodies. This type of idea where we're totally detached from this miracle, Casey talks about it so eloquently. It's literally this food comes from our incredible world that, you know, and the delicate ecosystem from the sun, you know, powering the food that animals eat that then goes into our bodies.

I mean, it's just it's just an amazing cycle. And we try to control it. You know, with industrial agriculture, we're pouring herbicides and pesticides all over our food. We're trying to get away from natural processes. We're packaging and processing the food into ways that are unrecognizable. We're getting basically infantilizing Americans, you know, to not know how to cook or have any appreciation. You know, we're, you know, telling Americans that it's much better to be, you know, doing spreadsheets than cooking, you know, food for your family, which as Casey so eloquently says, is like, she was brainwashed. I mean, what could be actually more important? This isn't a statement on anything. This is just, I think, a fact. But it's really, really important to have healthy

food and feed our family's bodies correctly. What could possibly be more important than that? So I just think there's some foundational issues here culturally that have kind of been hijacked. You know, I go to like Italy and Spain, like they have three times lower rates of obesity and diabetes. It's like, I don't think they're like, you know, less lazy than Americans. I don't think Americans have like just systematically become lazy. I think we have like a cultural problem. Culture. Yeah. Aren't like our choice and aren't the free market. I think American is kind of, we've been, the spiritual crisis is from the top down. It's from trillions of dollars of incentives that have been able to co-opt a lot of our

culture and a lot of our institutions. And again, this really isn't a partisan thing. It's really just a, no, I think corruption versus the unipart the uniparty. And I'm a very big personal responsibility guy, and I know you guys are. But when you have, let's take healthcare, the fastest growing institution in the United States is not AI, it's healthcare. it's also the largest institution in the country. And it's like when that institution just fundamentally incentivized to be detached from our environment, to be detached from our food, to be in fear, to be seeing our savior as a injection or a pharmaceutical product or a

medical intervention, to be literally telling us, don't worry about what you eat. 93% of a child's diet can be ultra processed food and still be healthy, which the USDA advises, you know, just, just don't worry about it. The pediatricians say that the first food a child should eat is, you

know, processed puffs, you know, we're getting all this crazy information. And then incentives only kick in once we get sick, that influences culture. And I think at the end of the day, that's the type of conversation that RFK and President Trump are opening up. And my point is that this could actually be reversed quickly. It's all about incentives and incentives can actually be changed. You know, Callie, Rachel and I were having coffee yesterday morning and we were talking about you and the podcast. And again, it's kind of in line with what Rachel said and what you said. Again, it's kind of in line with what Rachel said and what you said. It's a national security issue when you have so many Americans who are fat, who then get sick, when you're $34 trillion in debt, and then you pay all of this money to try to make them healthy again.

All of that is very destructive. But when we talk about the family, again, go back into the oldest literature that we can find. Go back into the Bible. Go to the Koran. I mean, we gather around food as human beings. Genetically, that's the way we're made. The family makes the food, and they celebrate the harvest of the food, and they eat the food together. There's something very familial and communal. Can I say something? You just made something me think about. the food and they eat the food together there's there's something very familiar and communal

you just made something you think about you know when when jesus died on the cross and rose and appeared to the you know appeared to the women in the tomb but the first time he appeared to the disciples he made them breakfast he made them breakfast he had fish and he made them breakfast and then they recognized him later of course after he after he blessed it but the point is that you're right we're we're built for that and and so when you take that away by saying you know what is more important than what we've done since as far back as we can record is that we want to make sure that we can have really processed foods so you can eat it very quickly and eat a lot of it and eat it separately. And that means you don't have to spend as much time shopping, growing, preparing,

and then eating together. And that means you have more time maybe to work, to be more productive, to be a robot in the economy. And a government that does that to its people, Kelly, I don't think they love their people. Because what you want is them to be healthy and happy. And we are healthy and happy and connected, Rachel, around food. And we've absolutely destroyed that. And maybe there's a correlation between what's happened around food and what's happened to the family i can't believe those two things are separated and it seems like the collapse of both have happened at the same time well rfk was talking about this yesterday in an interview i

mean every rfk and i are just like mind melding yeah now but every democrat every yeah it's i mean it's a crazy time and this is an issue for unlikely alliances but um yes um he was also saying that almost every big revelation in all religious texts come when somebody goes out into nature um and somebody is out and and and just this this connection i think are detached from nature i mean you know rfk talked about this again it's just like I think the environmental movement is totally just by making it quantifiable with carbon, it's just totally actually taken the soul out of that argument, too. It's really just about we need to reinforce our connection to nature, I mean, from a core spiritual component. I mean, so, yeah, many key elements in religious texts are around food, around nature. And I think that, you know literally powers our body and creates us um by trying to control that where our food is becoming much much less nutrient dense um by some measures we have 40 crop cycles left on our

current rate and it's not getting better right now um so i absolutely think that has a core spiritual component and then there's a real, I think, mental and physical health component, obviously. I mean, I think we've all kind of been gaslighted by the system. It's like, we see nutrition, we see food, we see kind of worrying about anything other than the most convenient food is like this, like annoyance. But and then we see serious medicine is like a pill, or serious medicine is like, you know, getting so sick, they need to rip our body open and like rearrange our body parts. It's like, that's just like wrong. Like this idea of food is medicine. Casey was taught at Stanford Medical School. That was like a fluffy concept. It sounds kind of, it's like this food that comes from the earth that we put on our bodies is like,

is like tied to nine out of 10 killers of Americans. I mean, you look at the CDC leading causes of death, they're all foodborne illnesses, like pancreatic cancer, which my mom died of, like wasn't a thing like 3040 years ago, like it was just in textbooks. Like if 100 years ago, if you were obese, you were in the circus, like it was so rare, there were case reports about it. Like everything is like, everything is happening because of food. And the fact that you know, and this is, I think something President Trump and RFK are talking about. It's nothing short of corruption and blind spot that this $4.5 trillion of our medical budget only goes to drugs after people get sick. Like the definition of medicine is what

helps prevent or reverse a condition. And the fact that we don't see our food system and our food system crisis as part of our healthcare budget, which is totally out of control, is actually just complete and utter negligence from the medical community. If the head of the NIH and Harvard Medical School and the FDA actually said food needs to be a big part of solving these foodborne illnesses, then we'd have a lot more focus on regenerative agriculture and getting back to basics, getting more in touch with our soil. So, I mean, you're getting to the solutions on this. I honestly think we need to tie these crises to the science. I mean, our scientific leaders actually need to be talking about how we are in huge trouble unless we get back to basics here.

So what I see, Kelly, is that there's two parts to it. I love that you started talking about personal responsibility. So there is a government corporate, you know, corruption component. And hopefully if Donald Trump is elected and puts RFK Jr. and people like you in charge of this, we can get a handle on this. As you said, you think this is actually reversible if we just change the rules of the game. So there's that part. Then there's the other part, which is personal responsibility. What are you doing in your home? And so I think about what Sean has done in our home. So Sean started a garden. He has a beehive. Now, if we had to survive off of Sean's garden, we're a big family. We'd starve. However, I think it's-

I literally have brought in a couple beans. I'm like, try out my beans. Try out my beans. Is this it? He's brought in, he has a harvest of tomatoes. That's awesome. We're talking about tomatoes. Here's what I think is important. My tomatoes are, listen, organic tomatoes? Yeah, they're amazing. Mine way better.

Of course. They taste so good when they're made in a... Yeah. But here's the real benefit to the tomatoes and the cucumbers and the peppers and the five beans he's brought in, is that our kids are learning where food comes from. Our kids are seeing what Sean's doing with the beehive. And even though we live, I mean, we live in the country, so we're not in a city, but they're starting to make, they're making the connection between where food comes from,

that it's not just in a grocery store. I remember I took a class, a poetry class when I was in college. I actually took it with my mom, Federico García Lorca, who grew up, you know, in Spain, where orange groves were. And the first time he saw an orange in a store, the grocery store, the oranges were in those little, you know, think of it like a cupcake container where the little oranges are. And to him, it was like little tombs, you know, because they were dying. Once they're there, they're dying, right? He was used to grabbing the oranges from the tree. This idea of, we get our meat, Callie, from a farmer down the street who, you know, we get a pig killed and a lamb killed and we get our cow from there. So this idea of people starting to connect

that dot, but also down to the very basic cultural level, you know, if you're in, you know, travel sports, travel soccer with, you know, all three of your kids, you're not going to be able to have a family meal and you're going to have to make that decision. And we've been talking about this a lot, Callie, the kinds of decisions people are making based on peer pressure or, you know, what the neighbors are doing or what they think they have to do instead of really being intentional about what really makes a family grow and unite and bond and have memories. Is it travel soccer sports where you throw them a bag of McDonald's in the back seat as you go to the next sport? Or is it saying, you know what, little Johnny isn't going to go to the Olympics. Maybe it's better if we have family dinner together. Maybe it'd be great if everyone got together and helped make dinner. That's kind of where I think where we have to go on the sort of personal side.

So, I mean, so many great points there, Rachel. I mean, you know, Casey and I grew up in a super A-type environment in Washington, D.C., where it was all about kind of keeping up with the Joneses. And, you know, we felt a lot of pressure and greatness from that culture to, you know, get all the stamps. You know, Casey at Stanford Med School, Stanford Harbor Business School, like it was just like, what's the next stamp? Unwinding that, honestly, and Casey's talked about this, and actually our parents is encouraging us to like, actually not care what everyone else is saying and have first principles and then really trying to push that to us, you know, is the greatest gift I got from my parents. And I do think societally, I think that culture that you mentioned is shaped by a lot of

forces. I mean, just a small microcosm. I went to Harvard Business School, really smart people. They all write their essays about changing the world. And 90% of the class goes into traditional industry, which they didn't want to go into. And then they actually just study the most depressed cohort of people in this study of various different socioeconomic classes were business school graduates 10 years out because they get sucked think i think a lot of institutions suck us into conformity when when our dreams and our gut is to to do something uh different and go against the grain and i i know to tie it back to what rfk and trump are doing right now i think i think they're going against the grain i mean i don't think you expect a Republican president to be talking about soil regeneration at a rally.

And I love it. So so so I think I think we've got to jumble this traditional, you know, kind of boxes that I think bad interests put us. And again, I don't think it's partisan anymore. I think it's it's corruption versus the Uniparty, you know, the Uniparty versus anti-corruption forces. On the personal responsibility point, I think this is really, really important. And I think it goes to that Time article about how we can't expect poor people not to, you know, eat anything other than an ultra-processed food. I think we need to speak to each other like adults, actually. I think on the personal responsibility, we've gotten to a little soft about food. It's like somebody asked me recently what I would say to a lower income single mother who can only afford Lunchables and ultra processed food for a kid. And I said, I'd say she's poisoning your kid.

You know, like, like, like, we need to speak fast. Like there, there is there is a and I do question, you know, what priorities that person's making. It's not from a point of judgment. I really do think there's huge systemic issues. But on a micro level, it doesn't matter that society is telling you that Lunchables is OK, which the USDA does. It's an approved lunch item. You know, it doesn't matter if society is telling you that that soda for your kid is

OK, which it does. It's on food stamps allowed for kids. And the American Diabetes Association accepted money from Coke and said small cans of full sugar Coke were okay for diabetics. I mean, there's some big gaslighting going on. But if you have the truth, it is still your responsibility. Like we throughout history, there are so many instances of mass blind spot society. This what's happening with food is a blind spot. So it is a personal responsibility issue, too.

And I would honestly, you know, if you can't afford to not poison your kids, you need to relook at priorities. I think that needs to be said, too, for the most Americans who say this is too hard not to poison your kids. I mean, we need to speak plainly there. Think about the rigidness a doctor has to a parent, you know, to follow a strict pharmaceutical schedule. It's not, oh, no, you don't have time. You must do this. This is absolutely essential for your child's health. You're too poor, you're too dumb to handle this regimen. They don't say that.

We don't think the parents are too dumb. I mean, it's like you are a terrible parent if you don't do these, you know, various, you know, pharmaceuticals. But why if we we should have that tone on childhood nutrition, like, like we should have like, this is and this is a point a big point. I'm, you know, from my side to anyone who will listen, like that should be the scientific consensus, the scientific consensus should be kids should not a two year old should not have added sugar. Like that should be the science and the science should not worry about social justice. The science should not worry about affordability. That's not their job. It's actually in the guidelines of what they can recommend. They shouldn't care about that. They should not care about what people can afford. They should say American two-year-olds should not

eat added sugar and then let the policy chips fall where they may. That's my point. And Sean, as conservatives, I think we're really reluctant of the government telling what we can and can't eat. I think well before that, let's just get the scientific guidelines correct. I just want those to be accurate. And then we can figure out policy from there. I've evolved on that. I think we had this conversation the last time.

I didn't want the government telling you what you could buy with the assistance they gave you. Let the market choose. But what's happened is the market's been distorted with subsidies. The market's been distorted with false science and people make bad choices. And then we pay on the back end with health care. We talked about Lunchables, just a couple of things. Lunchables, by the way, are expensive. That's a great point, Sean. When I was a DA and had six kids, I'm like, I'm not buying them because I can't afford them. They're way too much money. For what you get,

the little piece of meat and the cheese and the cracker, I'm like, come on. And there's like a thousand ingredients in them. It's crazy. Sean, we break this down in the book. The whole idea that it's more expensive to not poison your kids, you're exactly right on that. It's actually affordable to cook healthy.

You talk about how odd that Donald Trump has taken on this issue because it really isn't a traditional Republican issue. But we've done a number of podcasts on this. Do you think of the granola organic farmer homesteading, or that's my vision of what it was in the 60s and the 70s. There's been a whole movement of conservatives who are now homesteading and looking at their soil and organic and where does my food come? You see these, the ends of the spectrum doing the same thing because they want to know where their food comes from because they don't trust the system any longer to make sure they're getting healthy, good food. Here's my concern, though, Kelly, and if I'm really honest, you have parents, both of them work, right? And if you can barely get your kids out the door to get to school at 7 to school at 730 or eight o'clock, you know, and then you're rushing off to work and then you're done at five and you're home at 545 or 530.

You know, you have a couple hours before your kids go to bed. The question becomes, when do I shop? They have sports. I don't know. There's no sports in there. But even leave the sports off. If there is no sports, this thought process becomes really challenging for a lot of families because you have two parents working. And I'm not criticizing that, but I think there has to be ideas on how do you make things work in people's lives to make the right choices. Like for us, we make, we looked at our bread. And the list on if you get a store-bought bread is like so long.

We make our own bread now, and it's easy. It takes me. We do it in a bread machine, by the way. We're not kneading bread at night. We're putting it in a bread machine, but it's like four ingredients. I think six ingredients I put in there. What is it, Sean? It takes four minutes.

It's like butter. No, it's water, milk, butter, salt, sugar, and then I use really good einkorn flour. Great. That's it. And I put it in, and I set the timer for the morning. The kids get up at 6 o'clock. The bread is done and hot at 6 in the morning. The easiest thing I could do now, it is more expensive than store-bought bread because the einkorn flour but it's also more filling

by the way better for them it doesn't last a week it'll last like three days at the most but it shouldn't eggs easy to do we'll have more of this conversation after this callie you have you have little i think you have just a baby. How many kids do you have? We just have a two-year-old. Two-year-old, a two-year-old. So we have every single age group, right? We have from 25 to five, you know, in elementary school, in middle school, in high school, and in college and beyond. So we have every single, here are some practical things. Tell me what you think. Because time is an issue. I think I'm sick of the schools getting too much homework because it takes away from family time after school. So I think one is schools should get more done during

school day, have less homework. So then families can have family time, including dinner time together. I think we need to change the way we think around sports. Sports are important. Sports have a value. But there has to be, it's starting to take over family life culturally to a point that I think is insane. is insane. I think that, you know, school lunches are a problem because a lot of parents can't, you know, don't have the time or say they don't have the time to make the lunch in the morning. And so our school doesn't have a school lunch. So we have to make ours. And so that's, you know,

that's another thing. But also just culturally, Callie, we need to go back to valuing the people who make the meal, the moms and the dads who make dinner. It seems like, you know, that used to be something that was valued. And I think feminism has done a lot to take away the value of women in particular, but everyone around the preparation of meals. And we should be taking pride in meal making. We should feel great about the fact that we make time and space and room in our budget to prepare good, healthy meals.

That should be a good hallmark of a healthy family and a healthy life. I mean, obviously such a complicated issue. And I talk about this a lot with Casey and my amazing wife. But, you know, my amazing wife, but, um, you know, me personally watching a child, our child be born is, you know, the most profound thing I ever witnessed. And there's this unique ability of women to create life, which is the most important act that human can do of any gender. And, and then, um, I think the most important

person humans could do is raise their kids correctly. And I do think there's a war on motherhood and a war on basically delegitimizing the act of raising healthy kids. I mean, at Harvard Medical School. Starting with breastfeeding, Callie, starting with breastfeeding, which is also separating. What a miracle, what a miracle to that, that he, he was born and knew literally in his DNA how to latch on and breastfeed. I mean, and that's being attacked. I mean, you have the top funder of the American Academy of Pediatrics is Abbott, which is the major formula maker.

And there's an absolute war, which we talked about, Rachel. There's an absolute war on breastfeeding. There's literally scientific studies that have been funded and propagated by Bill Gates saying that it potentially artificial formula is better. I can say this clearly. And I think this is where we where the science has we've taken leave of our common sense. We have no idea about the interconnectedness of the birth process and breastfeeding and this unbelievable miracle of that process. Like no scientific study, no scientific understanding, I think, understands this miracle of that process. Like we do not need a scientific study to say that natural process is not the most optimal process. And the fact that there are those

studies funded is just absolutely just shows how I think bankrupt our healthcare and scientific system has been. So very complicated issue. But I think, you know, I think I was mentioning at Harvard Med School, you are not allowed to use the word mother anymore. You have the administration actually enforcing that. And in a hospital setting, you're not allowed to use the word birthing. That's Harvard Medical School? That's Harvard Medical School. And this was reported recently by Barry Weiss and others. You are not allowed. That's not a joke. And we can check with Harvard on that. It's birthing person.

on that. It's birthing person. So, just this language that we're using, and I think these societal forces, I think, are coming down against motherhood and coming down against, really, that it's less than to provide good food for your family. So, you know, from the bottoms up on these issues, Sean, you know, we talk about this book. And frankly, when we when we pitched the book, I wanted to call it a sick system and be a diatribe about the about the about the healthcare system. And our very smart agent and editors are like, No, this can be a positive story. And Americans want really a solution. And we have shopping lists in here, we have actual packaged food that you can buy that's better. I mean, you know, I would just urge, there is a way to do it even if you're busy. And one thing we talk about is if you can just scour the labels, even if it's packaged, if you can scour the labels for those three ingredients,

refined added sugars, refined grains, and seed oils, you're going to get 70% there. But there are, you know, we go over meal delivery services, we go over packaged food, we go over some very easy recipes. I mean, you know, absolutely, and this gets the personal responsibility point, we, you know, there's gonna have to be some work here, but there is a way to not poison your family. And I think we need to be very clear on that from the personal responsibility standpoint.

And, you know, if you are too busy as a, as a, as a family to, to not poison your kids, it's, it's potentially, you need to relook at your priorities to just be blunt. Yeah. You can take small baby steps too. I mean, start making incremental changes in your life on how you eat. You can make a couple meals on the weekend and put them in the fridge and you can eat them later in the week. There's a lot of things that you can do to take the steps to stop poisoning yourself and your kids. It's a really good point, Kelly. When you put it so simply, if you can't afford to not poison your kids,

something's wrong in your life, right? You got to make some changes because as parents, we give our lives to our kids and we do so many nasty things that I don't, I shouldn't say nasty, but things that don't help our kids, that hurt our kids. And again, it's acknowledging that, talking about it, and then making the changes that are going to improve their health mentally and physically. My mind on this conversation goes to the top down. I mean, I just can't stress this enough. The medical system knows how to shame people and people listen. When the surgeon general

said, you know, we should probably look at smoking in the 1980s, smoking rates plummeted, right? Phil Morris was the third most valuable company in the world then. So we listen, the medical system knows how to speak clearly and shame people. You know, there's a lot of shame from the medical system, the people speak clearly and shame people. You know, there's a lot of shame from the medical system. They are people who don't take pharmaceutical products. So my point is, why is it that? Why are they picking that issue? When nine out of 10 killers Americans are foodborne illnesses and 50 percent of teens are obese.

Why aren't they using that type of language and shame and just just just just just clarity, just full moral clarity? Why aren't they using that type of language and shame and just clarity, just full moral clarity? Why aren't they using it on this issue? So that, again, from the top down, before any policy, I think it's not conservative or liberal or anything to expect our scientific leaders to not be corrupted and compromised. You know, glyphosate is a huge problem like like this is not a free market or parts like we should have a report like europe has done on what this herbicide right that people won't even get near who are spraying it and have to wear hazmat suits what this is doing to our microbiomes and cells. We should have a report on that. Instead of the USDA saying it's safe, which is clearly not, we should just know the truth through our scientific advisory authorities,

and then we can make policy from that. We just need the truth. So my suggestion from the first year of a policy platform is just get the corruption out of the science. Get it out of the USDA, the NIH, the first year of a policy platform is just get the corruption out of the science, get it out of the USDA, the NIH, the FDA, stop having the FDA nine 75% funded by pharma, Rachel, RFK mentioned you as 50% funded. And they did, they issued that correction saying it's 47%. It's only 47%. And it's all misleading anyway, because the drug approval department is 75%. So, so let's get that out. Let's get that out. That's what I would start

attacking. Cause if, if the FDA can start saying the truth, the FDA right now is saying that obesity is a genetic condition, but there are, that is the science that they're saying. It's a, it's a genetic condition. It's not tied to food or lifestyle. It's not your fault. So they're saying it's not your fault, you know, get on Ozempic, you know, cause it's not your fault or it's not ozempic um you know because it's not your fault or it's not it's not anybody's fault it's not the government it's not your fault corporation's fault you know what because i know you have the ear for rfk jr and i'm still i'm very hopeful that this issue in particular is going to push the jd vance uh trump ticket over the finish line i really

believe that this is um I think this is going to turn out to be in retrospect, a monumental moment and a monumental topic that's going to change this election. And when that happens, I also think we have to start at the beginning because the first ultra process from kids get on is formula. That's right. It's formula. And again, going back to that spiritual thing we're talking about, the bonding, like you said, we don't have the science of it, the bonding that happens, the idea that we're telling women that they're more valuable in a cubicle than they are breastfeeding. What is our government doing to create the space and time in our lives for women

to do the most important thing they can do at the very start to start them off on the right track is breastfeeding and there's a corporate reason that this isn't happening people are making tarpon shine you're saying um that uh lunchables are expensive formula is expensive and breast milk is free it's free and it's perfectly designed from your body for your body for your baby it's so perfect and i feel like callie if we could get that one thing right if we can if we can value that 100 not just set the baby off on the right foot starting on life but just our whole mental state and and and the whole way we think culturally about life and babies and food.

So Kelly, you're going to have to put your arm around if Donald Trump wins and RFK is in and you're in, you will, and I think you know this, you'll be viciously attacked and you're not just going to fight the outside, which is the food companies and pharma. They have all their assets inside, right? And they'll work against everything you try to do. And you can't fire them because they're protected by their government union. Unless they change that, which is what Vivek Ramaswamy said. He said, get rid of the unions, the federal union.

You should be able to change the staff in these departments to do the will of the person who is elected by the people. That makes sense. But you're going to get fought everywhere and attacked from everywhere. And I really hope that there is stamina to fight the fight, message the fight, and win the fight. And I guess my final question for you is, if we're successful in changing the thought process around food, we have companies that make a lot of money, right? Can they change course? Can these companies go, okay, the American people don't want this. The government's not going to subsidize it. There's a different way. We might

not make as much money or maybe we have to charge more, but we can shift gears and be successful as companies and help Americans be healthier. I imagine they do it in Europe and other places in the world. Can it happen here? Can they actually do it? Yeah, in the past two weeks, I've actually gotten a lot of outreach from top people at Stanford Medical School, from leaders of large food conglomerates, from pharmaceutical companies. I mean, there's a lot of people inside these companies. We know people that work there. They're not bad people. They're listening to this content and these podcasts and these ideas and reading books and understand that the incentives of the system are totally broken. More and more and more doctors

are waking up and messaging me and dropping out of traditional medicine like Casey did. So the problem is these institutions, you know, I really liken it to any, you know, terrible, even government movement, right? The people that make up the country, the people that make up these companies are good people. The truly evil systems take good people and produce terrible outcomes, but often the people in those systems actually agitate for change. So I think we're actually arming with the incredible journalism you guys are doing and Rachel, your incredible segments and getting this word out there. I think we are radicalizing a lot of people within these industries. But yeah, to answer your question,

Sean, directly, there will be an economic dislocation in the short term if you change the incentive of our healthcare industry to profit when people are sick. That incentive is producing the fastest growing and largest industry in the country. So it is imperative though, for our long term economic and just existential survival, because we're going to go bankrupt from healthcare costs. They're 20% growing at an increasing rate, they're going to be 40% of GDP in 15 years, and we're going to be a fat and fertile, depressed and dying population. So we actually have to solve this for our long term economic survival. But no, I mean, I don't want to mince words, the long term, like, we have an existential problem here, where our healthcare system is

broken. What we talked about in the first chapter of this book is we should be optimistic. I mean, if America is good at one thing, it's actually identifying the problem. And we actually can fix things pretty quickly throughout American history. I mean, the fact that we're vigorously criticizing our institutions right now doesn't happen in China. You know, the fact that Joe Rogan and Fox and many of the leading just across the board from platforms are talking about this issue, that's the design of the system that actually makes me optimistic. So I think we can solve this, but we should not mince words here. I mean, it will be in a short-term disruptive. But yeah, of course, Sean, I think overall healthcare expenditures should be lowering. I mean, healthcare expenditures are unsustainable and they're high

because we're getting so sick. So there will be some dislocation there. But yes, absolutely, we can create a health care system and a food system that produces healthy outcomes and profits from that. Yeah. Good. I hope that's the case. And hopefully we have more food companies buying in to the process. And again, it'd be great if we had a lot less money spent on health care because people were healthier. That'd be a beautiful outcome. Coke and the food companies have rigged the game, but they also play by the rules of the game. I do think it's time where conservatives to step up and say it's not anti-free market. It's not in any state

to change the rules of a rigged system. We need to get back to a fair system and create rules on the playing field that aren't corrupt and then let our great companies play by those rules. I do hold these companies culpable for co-opting our system. They will fight this, but it's capitalism, right? We don't have capitalism right now. We have a crony capitalist system. If we get back to capitalism, I have full faith that our companies will be able to compete. But that starts with the USDA not recommending Coke for two-year-olds. That's just inappropriate and medically negligent. And then have that scientific advice. The policy chips fall where they may, and Coke can play by those rules. I do not think Coke or any of these companies should be banned, but we should get

the truth from the scientific advisory authorities and then create rules that actually make medical sense. And Callie, the other part of it is, I mean, that's the corporate part of it. But we're also through regulations that maybe are driven by big industrial farms. We're crushing small farms. So Sean and I are able to get our vegetables from people around. But I'm going to tell you you know or and our meat it's it's not cheap um it could be cheaper if there were more small farms competing but we're crushing them and and ranchers as well and small ranchers and so this is something that um you know

it's it's it's not just the usda it's not just the the nih and the FDA, our ag department needs to have some because that is a crucial part of it. Sean knows in the dairy state, the way small dairy farmers suffer and what they do to stay on. And frankly, the kids just don't want to carry on the tradition because the government has made it so damn hard. I used to be on all these dietary philosophies, no dairy, meat's bad. No, whole food is good. It's what's been done to the food and the incentives. We need to empower our dairy farmers. We need to empower our ranchers. We need to empower our farmers. And you talk to a lot of them, right? They have to play by the rules of these broken incentives right now. And I think it would be a lot better if we have non-corrupt incentives that 95% of agriculture subsidies go to ultra processed food, 0.3% go to fruits and vegetables. It's terrible. If we can fix that, I think we empower our farmers better, 100%.

Kelly, really quick. I'm telling you, my sister is part of a big part of our, you know, we talk about health with her all the time. She's a big health food person. She got us making homemade ice cream. But every now and then, if she doesn't have time to make her homemade ice cream, she bought this one. It's just like three ingredients, like cream and, you know, vanilla and, you know, a tiny bit's maple syrup. But I don't even know what the name of this company is, but I'm obsessed with their logo because it says, the future of food is in the past. And I thought that is, that's, I wanted to end it on that because I really believe if we could go back to the way, you know, Tom Massey, Representative Tom Massey said that, got to go back to the way our grandparents and our great grandparents ate. The future of food is in the past. There's a government component,

there's a small farm component, but there's also a family component and I love your book, Good Energy, because it gives people the information. Information is power. And you, Callie, I think, are going to change the world. Thank you, Rachel. Thank you, guys. Callie Means, you are the

best. Great connection. Again, shaking Rachel. Thank you, guys. Kelly Means, you are the best. Great connection. Again, shaking up, not food, but politics and bringing RFK Jr. and Donald Trump together. That's good energy. That's good energy. That is good energy. Thank you for being with us at the kitchen table. We are always grateful. Thank you, Kelly. Grateful for you guys. Love you, Kelly. Thanks. We'll be right back with much more after this. Listen, I love Callie. And again, you were on Callie Means before America was on the Callie Means. You mentioned ice cream at the end. And again, look at what is in your ice cream.

I know. And when we make ice cream at our house now, it tastes great. It's amazing. Do you remember when we made the maple? Because I love maple nut ice cream. And my sister came over for a big family gathering. And I said, would you make maple nut? And she did.

And it was just cream, maple syrup. And then she added the walnuts. Heavy whipping cream, mostly. A little bit of milk, sugar. But it was maple syrup in this case. Maple syrup. When I get my bees, I'm going to do honey as well. And then you have vanilla extract.

And then you have other things you can put in. But what happens is it is the most creamy, delicious ice cream. Now, if you wait three days and put it in the freezer, it'll come out really hard, right? And the ice cream in the store has all these chemicals in it... To keep it soft. To keep it soft. So... But it only takes like... If you keep the container frozen in the store has all these chemicals in it to keep it soft to keep it soft so but it only takes like if you keep the container frozen in the freezer so whenever you want to make ice cream

it's already the container's frozen that's a really important component of it it's it's like 10 minutes to make it and 20 minutes to you know for it to come out and you can eat it fresh and 25 minutes 25 minutes it's like you know what's wrong with waiting 25 minutes to get something so healthy you know sean at that gathering that my sister leah made that delicious it was such a treat for me because it's it is i i got turned on a maple nut ice cream in wisconsin because it's a very sort of northwoods you know maple syrup you get it um and ice cream it's the dairy state so it's my favorite ice of Northwoods, you know, maple syrup, you get it. And ice cream, it's a dairy state. So it's my favorite ice cream, and she made it for me at home, and it was astounding.

But that was one of the, we will occasionally have these big, huge family gatherings. My sister's family, my brother's family, all the nieces, all the nephews, my parents, everyone all together. We have these barbecues. My brother is an amazing cook. And so we have this big thing. And then, of course, you know, there's 20, 23 of us when we put us all together and you know, there's a lot of dishes, even though I have two dishwashers, there's a lot of, um, you know, cleanup and I got to get the kids, the older kids to help because

it's just too much for me. And they were complaining about it after this last time we all got together a couple of weeks ago. And it much fun uh but it's you know it's a lot of fun when you're cooking by hand and so anyway i after everyone left and the kids were kind of complaining about how you know we had a step and i said you know what maybe next time i'll just cater it and then then i won't have to hear you guys complaining paper plates people do paper plates we'll cater it and make it easy and we'll just hang out i got so much push and i loved it actually i love the pressure they were like and the quietest one of all jp he's like oh no no the cooking and all that's happening and that that's part of the fun

and i was like you're right that is part of the fun the warm feelings that come from it we were hanging out and you get this and i'll get that. And we're making that. And it's just all this chaos and it takes time. But the feeling that I think carries from that versus me just popping down something I picked up at a restaurant is that that that that restaurant thing that I plopped down is not going to stay with him and with the other children and the nieces and nephews for generations to come. They remember the experience and the journey of getting to that meal. And Sean, you have the same experiences in your family. My memories, I don't know what we had for dinner, but I remember the process of my mom cooking and the smells that came from it and everyone sitting down. But on this, again, today, phones are such a big part of people's lives. And I'll see even at these gatherings,

there'll be some kids off on phones, that happens. But a lot of them gravitate to the kitchen. Yeah, they do. And someone's cooking and there's conversation and the adults are talking and then they're there listening and then chiming in as well. It's the process as much as the eating itself is what makes this so unique and so special.

And intergenerational stuff that's happening. Those are the big meals. But on the small side, again, the love that goes in. By the way, I have peppers as well. He grew peppers. I love red peppers. I'm happy. And cucumbers. It tastes different it tastes

better um and again I don't have a whole lot of it because this next next year I'm gonna have a lot more because I've learned some but um the love that goes in to keeping people healthy um is real and it takes time and energy but again of all the things we do, to Kelly's point, why would we poison the people that we love? Yeah. Let's not poison them. Let's actually make them healthy. And then also acknowledge all the additional benefits that come from food preparation, from gathering around the table, from helping our children understand the connection between food. And let's face it, the food that you're growing, Sean, yeah, you grow it, but it's from God.

It's God's soil. It's God's sunlight. It's that whole photosynthesis process. It's everything that's happening outside. It's organic, too. God didn't put chemicals in that soil. God did not put chemicals in that soil. I love that what Callie is awakening in this country. I highly recommend his book, Good Energy. My dad, I gave it to my dad and he'll text me stuff about it that he's reading. It's really changed his way of looking at food and looking at what's in the store and how he cares for himself. Do you know what Kier said at the end, which was great? He's like, I used to be no dairy, dairy, meat. He's like, enough. Just eat whole healthy foods.

Eggs. Yeah. Fruits, vegetables, meat, dairy, but have it be the good stuff, right? And when those companies say, I know, I have an idea. We're going to separate the egg whites and you can just eat egg whites. It's total bullshit. A whole egg is a perfect thing. And this idea that they can improve on an egg by separating the yolk. I mean, I get it. If you're going to make meringue, you got to separate the yolk from the white.

You're my perfect little egg. I'm a good egg. I'm a good egg i'm a good egg come on but yeah you remember there was that phase where you could go and get just egg whites and people were telling you that the yolk was bad all the nutrition's in the yolk stop it stop it no more don't improve on nature it's good um it's good she's done it god is good god created is good let's put those good things in our body we're listen this is going to change. This might change the election, Sean. The greatest thing that they could do if they have power in government in the bullhorn is saying, hey, you, you're poisoning the American people.

And they'll take people back. These companies, they'll be on their back feet and go, blah, blah, blah. And you'll see them start to change. And poor people have a right to good healthy food as much as people with money and we have to make sure that that that that happens that we're educating people but that we stop subsidizing the bad stuff and if we need to subsidize fruits and vegetables you know what we spend so much money on bombs and weapons going to countries that i don't you know in areas of the world that don't even matter to me you know uh i'm sorry i just i would rather spend that money

boston spent a billion dollars on illegal immigrants what happens if boston had spent a billion dollars on subsidizing i'm not about subsidies at all it's way too much money but if if we're talking about dollar for dollar subsid Yeah, dollar for dollar. Subsidize. Subsidize. Good food. Change the health of your city. And school lunch programs. Yes. But that's not what they do. Illegals. Anyway, with that, we're grateful for Callie.

Great conversation. Yeah, so great. Thank you for being with us at The Kitchen Table. If you like our podcast, rate, review, subscribe, wherever you get your podcast. You can always find us at foxnewspodcast.com. You can find us on Spotify, Apple. Tell your friends, family members, and neighbors about The Kitchen Table. We'd be grateful for that, Sean and Rachel.

And until next time, hope you have a great day. Bye-bye. Thanks, everybody. Bye. Listen ad-free with a Fox News Podcast Plus subscription on Apple Podcasts. And Amazon Prime members can listen to this show ad-free on the Amazon Music app.