From the Kitchen Table: The Duffys - Q & A With The Duffys: What Is It Like Being A Duffy?

Episode Date: October 14, 2023

On a special edition of Q&A, Rachel is joined by her daughter and writer at The Federalist Evita Duffy-Alfonso, as she asks her what it was like growing up with eight siblings, and how her first two years of marriage have been. Later, Rachel and Evita discuss their views on getting married young, and Evita poses a few questions to her mom. Follow Sean & Rachel on Twitter: @SeanDuffyWI & @RCamposDuffy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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BetMGM.com for terms and conditions. Must be 19 years of age or older to wager. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Hello, everybody, and welcome to From the Kitchen Table. Today we have a special edition of Q&A where I am going to talk to my daughter, Evita,

and just ask her a bunch of questions. She may have some questions for me, too, but we're going to make this a mother-daughter edition of Q&A. Avita, welcome to the kitchen table. Thanks for having me. Why don't we just get right into it? Because I know for myself that the number one question I get from anyone curious about our crazy family is, what's it like to have nine kids? our crazy family is, what's it like to have nine kids? So I'm going to ask you, what's it like to be the oldest in a family with nine kids, a total of 11 of us? So I actually have been seeing a few studies about like firstborn children, and they say that this sort of makes you like a natural born leader, I guess, because you're right away, you have to start, you know,

parading the kids and shepherding them around and leading them in play games and that sort of thing. And that's really what I grew up doing all the time was organizing them, putting on plays with them, you know, making, playing pirates with them, but I would like get them all dressed up and we would, you know, orchestrate it together. And so I felt like it was it really it made me, I think, able to to be a leader in that sense. And it was a lot of it was a lot of fun. And I think coming back now, because I'm not with them all the time, I now live elsewhere with my husband, not with the kids and coming back for Thanksgiving or for Christmas. not with the kids and coming back for Thanksgiving or for Christmas. It's always awesome to come home and not just be with a giant family, but also be with a family where there's a ton of kids because I'm the oldest. There's like still a ton of children at home, which makes holidays so much

more fun. Yeah, it sure does. I do remember you organizing things. You talked about the pirate games. I remember that you would take them on little adventures through the woods because we lived in rural Wisconsin and our neighbors behind us, it was like, you know, I don't know, maybe a mile of land between us. cookies coming out of the oven over at the Miller's house at the Timber Cove in. And so you guys would dress up like little explorers and walk through the woods over there. But you also had inside of one of the bedrooms, there was a closet that was really low and deep and fun. And you guys had the kids club there and there was a password to get in. But you were the organizer of all of that. And your siblings always looked up to you in so many ways, but especially to kind of lead the fun. And it's interesting. So let's talk about some of the challenges. That's sort of the fun stuff, right? What was the hardest part about being in a big family?

being um in a big family hmm and you i think this like the the sacrificing of time i think um what i mean by that is like there were fun things that i would maybe want to do after school um or i you know i was on captain of the soccer team or what. And there were just, when, when you have a big family, things just come up, somebody's sick, mom and dad may be out of town every once in a while. And so there was a lot of stepping up that had to happen, um, in, in terms of just not always being able to do whatever I wanted, like an only child might be able to do. I think on the day it was really hard too, because, um, we, you know, not really hard, but it was, it's, it's not like, you know, I get to come home and just, you know, take care of myself. There's a lot more chores. There's a lot more responsibility. There's a lot more diaper changing. In a big family, you aren't just responsible for yourself, especially if you're the oldest. You get, you know, tasked with helping out with a lot of little kids. you get, you know, tasked with helping out with a lot of little kids. And I think that is that's a very common experience with with big families, too, is just, you know, you have to help out. I can't remember. I want to talk about chores because that is a big part of being in a big family. I mean, there's just no avoiding it. Say probably one of the most annoying things

is that the oldest gets all the chores, more chores. It's like, oh, there's too little. They can't do anything. But I was doing those chores when I was their age. So it's a little bit frustrating when we talk about the disparity of chore distribution. Yeah. Or the child that just is more competent and does it better. I mean, everyone has different talents. And then you end up just as a mom relying on that child, whether it's the oldest one or just the one who's better at organizing or loading the dishwasher, you end up relying on them. And, you know, there's some mind games going on too, you know, where kids figure out, well, if I pretend that I don't know

how to do this very well, then they'll ask my sister to do it or whatever. That stuff happens. One of the things that's interesting that you talk about is, you know, you don't get the same. I mean, there's all these great advantages, right? And you saw it during COVID where, you know, I felt so bad for kids who came from only child homes because they were locked in their house. They had nothing to do. When COVID happened, I mean, you guys all had each other and, you know, you came home from college at one point, even you came home from college and we had to go to Chicago because our littlest Valentina had to get heart surgery and we couldn't get a babysitter because our babysitter was in her 60s. COVID, everyone thought old people were all going to die, right? And so she certainly wasn't interested in coming over. And we didn't want her to come over and be responsible for that as we were in the middle of this big, huge, you know, open heart surgery situation with Valentina. And you came home and you kids, you were in charge. I mean, you guys were on your own for like

four days. We were in Chicago, baby having surgery in the middle of the pandemic, and you by yourself with all those kids. It was just kind of a crazy, crazy situation. But that aside, you know, you talked about wanting to be and you know, that that desire. And I remember being one of four, wishing sometimes I was an only child so I could get some exclusive attention. And one of the things that I couldn't do as a mom with so many kids, especially with Sean in Congress, was go to all the sporting events. It was just really hard. I usually was nursing or I had a baby and it just was very difficult sometimes for me to go to sporting events. And I remember you were in tennis and you were kind of complaining. I think you were probably in your senior year.

You're kind of complaining how there were all these other moms who were always going to the tennis matches and I didn't go. And so I'm like, OK, I got to get myself to get there. I'm going to go to this next tennis match, the next home one. And I brought all the kids and I was taking care of some. And while I was taking care of some in the middle of the match, a couple of them thought it was funny and they snuck onto the court in the middle of the match. And then I remember you were mortified and then you told me to never come to another tennis match again.

I have zero recollection of this whole story. That was crazy. They all went on to the court and you were like, that's so, so mad. And I don't remember ever being upset about, about there being, uh, no, nobody coming to my sporting stuff. I was never that into sports. Other kids in the family have complained about that. That's true. But I did remember you saying something about somebody else going. I tried to go to the tennis match and and it was it was a big fail. I went to pick up. I went down to the school, I should say, today and I had an event that I had

to go to. And then while I was there, one of the kids, Margarita, who's in fourth grade, said she had a tummy ache and she wanted to come home. And I, you know, the whole time I was there, one of the kids, Margarita, who's in fourth grade, said she had a tummy ache and she wanted to come home. And I, you know, the whole time I was wondering, does she really have a tummy ache or does she just want to come home with me and have that alone time? You know, so one never knows. I'm sure that's a little bit of a part of it. But yeah, you're right. I mean, it is, there's the good and there's the bad of it, right? Yeah. Well, and I do feel like I, there's an advantage to being the oldest child because when you are really young, you do get a lot of alone time.

So I watched all these old videos that dad got removed. So we had all these old tapes because dad used to do tons and tons of videography in the like just everyday lives of ours. And so we got it basically burned onto like our computer so we can actually go back and watch all these videos from 23 years ago. And I definitely you could see in the videos that I had a lot of alone time, but the younger kids, And I definitely, you could see in the videos that I had a lot of alone time, but the younger kids, they didn't get that really ever because they're born into a family where there's already six, seven, eight kids. Yeah. So I definitely have, like, I think that there's a difference between me and my need for, like, you know, you and dad to pay attention to me. I don't feel that way very often.

I do sense that with the younger kids a lot more. I think that there's definitely different experiences depending on where you are in the lineup. Yeah, I think sibling order is so interesting. And I also, I remember I got a book on sibling order when I was first married because I married into a family where Sean is one, my husband, Sean is one of 11 kids. And so I wanted to know what that was like. I was so fascinated by, I had never met a family with 11 kids, even though my dad was one of 15. I should say I met my aunts and uncles, but in my own peer group, very few families were as large as your dad's family. And so I read that sibling order book and it is really fascinating, you know, because I can see that there are traits that you have that our middle children don't have, that our little children have. And some of that also just comes from,

you know, parents being, you know, a lot more strict or a lot more orderly when they have the first ones and then letting go or maybe just getting exhausted by the last ones. And so the things that I would never let you do when you were five, you know, our five year old probably gets to do, you know, so there's that as well. I know that that our kids now that there's so many in the house, they don't do as many playdates. I can remember, you know, going on playdates with you when I was a younger mom. And there's not as much of that with with our kids because, you know, they're home and there's a playdate every day, you know. And and that's that is part of the fun part of of having a big family is that, you know, just the fun naturally happens. And now, Vida, it's

been really fun because across the street from us, we have our neighbors, the Tuppers, and they have five kids. And it is just back and forth between our two families. And it's just a really, really fun thing to watch as a mom, just all these kids coming back and forth between the houses and the pools and just having a grand old time, especially this summer when there were no, you know, schedules. It was especially fun. But let's go ahead. I was going to say, I had a question for you, if you were interested. Sure. So I have, when I was in high school, mom said that I could not watch the old real world episodes. And so I waited until I, until I got to college and I actually watched them. Somebody had uploaded

them to like daily motion or something. And so I, I watched the old episodes and in one of the episodes, somebody had asked you, do you like, do you want to have kids? And I didn't know if it was the context was like right now or like in the future, but you were almost kind of hesitant. You were like, I don't know. At the time you were 23, you were like, I don't know. I don't know if I want to be pregnant. Maybe I think eventually it was like very nonchalant. So I just kind of wanted to ask you, like, when did you know that you wanted to have a big family or did you ever know? And it just sort of happened. What was your head and what was the timeline like? Because you were my age when you said, I'm not sure. Yeah, you know, I really never

thought of it. I was also not one of those girls, you know, there's girls who are like 20 and they're or even 16 and they're dreaming of their wedding and what their life being married was like. I was never like that. You know, it's weird because so much of who I've become is about my family and my husband and my situation like that. But it's nothing I really thought about or planned. And certainly with the kids, I never planned it. You know, I'm faithful Catholic.

So, you know, Fox News alert. I'm not on birth control, Never was. So things just happened. And so that's just. Yeah, I never I never really, you know, probably when they asked me, I was probably surprised. I don't remember this, but it doesn't surprise me. It wasn't that I was against having kids. I probably just never even thought about it. just never even thought about it. You were just kind of like, I don't know. It was a really funny and looking back. Yeah, I'm sure I just was like, I don't know. Let's go party. Yeah. So yeah, I never really thought about it. But it is interesting how I fell into it. And with every single one of them, I, you know, just really embraced it. And what was really wonderful was that dad really embraced it. And so I think initially, whenever I would find out I was pregnant, my first reaction was like a little bit nervous and scared. Oh, my gosh, we have, you know, we have another one.

I'm going to have to do this again a little bit. And immediately, as soon as I would tell Sean, he was just always like, this is awesome. This is great. And I think having a partner in your life, a husband who, you know, is all down with family really helps because in the end, during those nine months, you're the one carrying the baby. You're the one tired. You're the one that's going to have labor pains and go through all that. So I think I was

really, really lucky to have Sean in that regard. And it was never more poignant, I guess, than when I found out not only that I was having Valentina, but a few months later finding out that she had, you know, heart issues and that she was, you know, 99.9% going to have downs. And they based that on the ultrasound and on my blood work and on my age at that time. And so we knew that. And I was definitely like, you know, I had, you know, some emotions about it, not necessarily negative, but it was unknown. I was like, whoa, this is a lot. And again, called your dad and immediately he was like, oh, everybody, we know that as a child with Down syndrome, it's the best thing that ever happened to their family. And I think you and I would both agree that that is absolutely, turned out to be absolutely true with little Valentina.

So let's talk a little bit about before we, because I want to talk about your marriage because you got married young and I want to talk about how your first year is going. But before we do that, I want to talk a little bit about your relationship with the other siblings because they definitely see you as a little bit of a disciplinarian. Yeah, that's probably true. It's not, it's not easy to be the one when you're in charge. And also something interesting is a lot of times when I come back now, there's, you know, random times. So I come back for holidays, right? But there's also some like random times throughout the year where you guys both happen to be gone and they say, hey, Evita, can you fly out to watch them?

Because it's not just, you know, one day. It's like, you know, a few days. And so I'll come out and I'll watch kids. And at that point, it's like I'm I'm in I'm in like, you know, babysitting mode. I'm not like fun big sister with other parents around. I'm like getting homework done. It's going to bed on time. It's baths. It's making dinner. It's making breakfast. It's making lunch for whatever kid

decided that they had to stay home that day because they were obtained to be sick. Like, you know, it's not it's not fun when you have to be the one in charge. And so I feel like a lot of time I have to do my life, Evita. But then so, oh, yeah, I'm definitely and then you have you have the you have the disadvantage of not being the mom. Right. And so then they they're like, well, you're just my sister. I don't have to listen to you. I'm sure. But they listen. They listen. like when there's nine kids who like the kind of pairing up that happens and how the pairing up among siblings shifts as they get older as well. And so it's been, you know, used to be, for example, that Mighty V and Paloma were like peas in a pod. And then, you know, as Paloma became a teenager, then she and her next oldest sister became closer. And, you know, just all the shifting that's always happening.

So Jack and I are both, Jack is, so actually Lucia now is too. So Jack's the sibling under me and then Lucia's under Jack. There's like two years basically between every sibling for the most part. Jack and I have had conversations about this where we said we've come, we left the house, we come back after college or after even graduating college in my case and being like, wow, the dynamics here are so different. Like suddenly it's not our house. It's almost like we're guests in this family. All of these dynamics and like flicks and it's not like just a regular like family where there's two parents and one or two kids it's like the sibling dynamics are real it's

like a like it's like a real drama I always think like it'd be the greatest reality show terrible idea to do a reality show with your family it's always been terrible to everybody that's tried it but um I will say it's it's extremely entertaining to see who's friends with who, what drama is going on. Some drama happens and somebody else's friends with somebody else. Always something.

And it's always really interesting to watch and to come home and be like, this is kind of crazy. It's not the same as when we left. We'll have more of this conversation after this. Listen to the all new Brett Baer podcast featuring Common Ground. In-depth talks with lawmakers from opposite sides of the aisle, along with all your Brett Baer favorites like his all star panel and much more.

Available now at Fox News Podcasts dot com or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, there is always something going on. And as you know, I I always say that, like, I measure the success of my life on, you know, who's, I can look at my call log of all the kids that are calling and texting me. And I actually love it. But you're right. You know, there's always something going on. There's always some dynamic.

Somebody always has an issue. Somebody's sad. Somebody's happy. I've always said the most difficult part about being a mom with a big family is that nobody is ever happy all at the same time. And it doesn't matter if you're like on vacation altogether in the Caribbean or all going out to a restaurant, just like something is off when you have that many people. It's like, imagine, you know, trying to take a photograph that, you know, you just can't get, you know, 11 people all

looking forward, all happy and smiling at the same time. It's very difficult. And we've definitely had some photoshopped, you know, Christmas cards because of that, because, you know, somebody's having a meltdown, you know, one second and then the next or not. sort of how that how the family is, you know, something is always going on with everybody. And it's very rare that everybody's on the same wavelength at the same time feeling the same things, of course, because everyone is so different. But it is it has been, I think, for me as a mom, a real joy to have you guys come back. And when I, you know, I have to deal with the day to day of the little kids. But when I see you and Jack and Lucia, who's now in college, you know, I get to enjoy you guys on a different level and sort of enjoy the fruits of so many years of labor. And then, you know, watching all of you guys interact. I know me and dad had a real surreal moment on our last family vacation. He and I had gone off for a walk on the beach and we came back and all of you guys, all the kids,

including your husband, Michael, were all in the hot tub at the hotel. And basically it was, you guys took up the entire hot tub and it was just you guys. And we kind of came upon it cause it was dark at night. And before you guys saw us, we kind of held back and just sort of watched, you know, this, these conversations and, you know, even the little ones, you know, conversing with the older ones in the back and the fourth and laughing. And it was a real moment where we just sort of, you know, kind of took a deep breath and went, whoa, we, we created all this. And it was, it made, it made the expense of that trip a lot more. We went, this was worth it. Definitely just to, just to have that moment. But yeah,

it also can be, you know, there's also lots of fighting. And, you know, this is, you know, an Irish-Hispanic family. No one's afraid to say what they think. And so there's just a lot of back and forth, you know, going on as well. So that's just really fun. Talking about Michael, your husband, he's been such a great dynamic into the family because he loves kids and he comes from a family of only two kids. And so that could have gone either way. It could have been like, oh my God, this crazy Duffy family. But we got lucky because he really embraces it, Evita. Yeah, he really does. And he that's sort of his he always talks about it. He said he was always sort of hesitant when he thought I had, you know, I've nine of these. Well, at the time,

I had seven younger siblings. It's like, that's crazy. And thought he wouldn't like that. And then he started to spend a lot more time with our family while we were dating. And then when we were engaged and realized I wouldn't want to do it any other way, he's like, and I'm not somebody who's like, oh, I want a massive family. I don't even know if I want nine kids, but he definitely is in that camp just because of how fun it is. And I think there's a lot of parents out there who really sort of, it sad. There's like you hear them talk about it where they say, my my kids don't come home very often. It's just sort of me and my husband or me and my wife. And if you have a giant family, first of all, somebody is always going to want to come home. Yeah, you're never alone.

If you have a giant family, people want to be with the giant family. You know, it's fun. It's always exciting. That's I that really think is the ultimate pitch to parents who were like, oh, it's such a sacrifice financially now, or it's really difficult that it is really difficult. But I will say that Michael and I have made financial sacrifices, made really difficult decisions of do we want to go here or do we want to go for a weekend or a week with the family? Because I know everybody's gathering and I usually choose our family because it's so big and I'm willing to make the financial sacrifice, even though Joe Biden's inflationary economy is making plane tickets really, really expensive. Yes, because it's so fun. Yeah, definitely. The Biden economy is making plane tickets really, really expensive. Yes, because it's so important. Yeah, definitely. The Biden economy is causing a lot of social distancing with families who are

having making it's making it hard to make flights out to sea. But I'm glad that you're making those sacrifices. I know that our kids really look forward to when you come. But if I'm really honest, they look forward to Michael coming home because Michael's so strong and he throws them around and and and they and he loves them and they love him a lot. And he's a great he's he's been a great son in law and a great addition to the family. So let's talk a little bit about about marriage because you're 22 years old. about marriage because you're 22 years old. We've talked on the podcast before about why you decided to get married young. We even did an episode right before your wedding, sort of, okay, this is what all the planning is looking like here and all the craziness around your wedding. Here we are, what, a year and a half, almost a year and a half

into your marriage. What has been, let's just start with what's been something about being married that you didn't expect? Really? By the way, you got married at 22, which, you know, so you're now 24. Oh, 23, right? Were you 23? Oh, yeah, you were married at 22, which, you know, so you're now 24. Oh, 23, right? Were you 23? Oh, yeah, you were 23. 23. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. Something that I didn't expect. I don't know if I have anything that I didn't expect, per se. I mean, I think... Nothing surprised you about being married? Yeah, I mean, I think nothing surprised you about being married. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, Evita, my first year of marriage was famously horrible. Um, and thank God that I, you know, I married Catholic. So I knew I was, I, I, well, I tried to escape. Actually,

I called your grandmother. And, um, at one point, I don't know, it was a couple months in and I was like, I gotta get out of here. This is horrible. I don't want to be married. And she said, I don't know, it was a couple months in and I was like, I got to get out of here. This is horrible. I don't want to be married. And she said, I'm sorry. I said, I want to come home. And she said, I'm sorry. You don't have a home here anymore.

You better work this out with your husband. And that was probably the best advice I ever got. But I had to work it out. But, you know, I would say it went only up from there. We had a really hard first year adjusting to living with one another. So I'll say the conflict resolution has been a little bit of a challenge and we still are working on it because we just have really different ways of dealing with conflict. So just to tell you, when I have an argument or something where there's an issue, I like to bring it up right away and I like to talk about it right away. And I like to get it

done with, right? And let's solve it. Let's beat a dead horse. And Michael is not like that at all. Michael, if there's an issue, he oftentimes, he doesn't like to talk about it. He won't tell me if there's an issue, he oftentimes, he doesn't like to talk about it. He won't tell me. Or he likes to, you know, sort of just be passive about things because he really doesn't like conflict. He doesn't. And to me, I don't view it as like a fight. I view it as like, well, we're just talking it through. But he doesn't even like talking it through so much. And so we're getting to the point where we, you know, are finding a balance of let's let's make sure that, you know, you, you know, that you understand this isn't a fight. It's an argument and we can talk about it because I always think it's really good to talk about things and to not let anything fester or people to get resentful. But that's something that we've been working on just because instinctively he wants to pull, you know, pull back and not have the fighting or the conflict. And I'm like, let's talk about it. Let's let's resolve it right away. But I think that's something that's a lot of a lot of people go through because everybody deals with with with conflict differently.

Yeah. I mean, we're definitely, you come from a family that, you know, does not have a problem with conflict and talking about things and you kind of grew up in that environment. But, you know, what we've noticed through the years, Vida, is that we've met couples who say they never fight and within a few years they're divorced. So, I mean, it's actually, if you speak to therapists, they'll say that's common with them as well, that they'll have people show up who are on the verge of divorce or heading towards divorce and they'll say, yeah, we never fight. And that's part of the issue. I understand the desire to not have conflict, but ultimately, if you keep pushing these things down, they never get resolved. And it's not good for anybody. Not fighting, but if we're talking through things, that means that we're always on the same page and we, you know, we're always, you know, frank with each other and not letting anything build up or not be said because that's never healthy. And so he's really come a long way marriage that, so it's not just like, if you're just fighting to fight and to be mean and to go for the jugular, um, and, and, and to win, then, then, then Michael's right. Right. That that's probably not a great marriage, but if you're fine, if, if the, if you have quality fights, I should say, maybe that's a good way to say it. You're having quality fights. You're having arguments and you're discussing things because one, you're having arguments

because you're one, you're not afraid to talk to each other and tell each other how you feel. And two, you're bringing up things that instead of, you know, you know, pushing them under the rug, you're bringing them to the surface so you can find a healthy resolution to them. It doesn't mean you, it means sometimes the fights aren't always like, they're not going to look like they look in a, in a therapist's office, I guess, you know, where you're just like going back and forth and in this disgusting way, usually when you're home, I mean, and I'm a heated kind of person, they can be heated, but that doesn't mean they're negative or that they're a sign that your relationship is negative. It just means, or that your relationship isn't good.

It just means that, you know, you're getting it out there and you're finding a resolution. I find on couples that aren't afraid to argue and find resolution are generally in in the healthiest relationship. So so I I think that's really interesting. How does a division of labor work in your marriage? Because that can also be an interesting thing that needs to get worked out very early on in a marriage. So who's doing what in the house? So I work from home. So it's a little bit different because instead of us both having jobs and coming home and cleaning up, right, I oftentimes pick up throughout the day just because I'm here. And if I have, you know, like a couple seconds, I'll be like, okay, I'm going to put the dishwasher, I'm going to clean up clothes or whatever. Um, but, but generally, um, and that doesn't usually bother me cause I'm, cause he's not here, but you know, like, what does he gotta do? Um, but when we, when he comes home, Michael is, is usually really good about helping me

out, um, with like, you know, making dinner or cleaning up after dinner. Um, and, and then I think it all kind of balances out to be honest, cause I probably do more. I do the laundry, you know, he doesn't like doing laundry. He does laundry. I probably do more. I do the laundry. You know, he doesn't like doing laundry. He does laundry. But I, you know, if there's ever anything like outdoors, right, like if we're like, for instance, we had to we had to take the boat out of the water today because we're at the cabin and it has to be taken out for winter. And Michael did all that. And I didn't touch the trailer. I didn't do any of it. Yeah. Or like take the trash out like Michael takes the trash out. He goes outside.

yeah or like take the trash out like michael takes the trash out he goes outside it's not fun to you know carry it up this giant hill that we have um so i think that they're you know it's always about balance and i think i think it's you know you never it's never gonna be a good relationship if you're always counting like well i did this then you you do this. But just knowing that we both live in the same place and we both are, you know, on the same team. And so we just help out when we see things come up. And I think that's something that we've been able to do and pretty well. Yeah, I think that's important, too. You know, for me, for us, there's just was it's not anything we even necessarily discussed too much. It just kind of fell into it.

I don't know if it's because of the way I was raised, but there is sort of a gender type division of labor. So I tend to do the cooking, but Sean will help with the cleanup. And we do that together. Now that we're our kids are older, I'll clean. And then, you know, generally the kids will do the cleanup after dinner, which which has been good as well. But, you know, there is sort of the same kind of of divisions that are a little bit gender based. And I don't mind that. I you know, when I moved to northern Wisconsin, when we first got married, I looked at him and said, listen, I will never shovel a walk. I expect the walk to be shoveled, but it will not be me.

And by the way, in Wisconsin, there's lots of women who shovel the walk. I expect the walk to be shoveled, but it will not be me. And by the way, in Wisconsin, there's lots of women who shovel the walk. But that was something that I said, I'm not going to do that as a woman. I'm not interested in that. You know, I famously got into a big, you know, discussion, argument, running joke on Fox and Friends because I told Will that I don't I don't fill up my gas tank unless I have to. And it will occasionally happen. But generally, I leave that for Sean to do. And Will thought that was horrible that I had that expectation. But I think it's a little bit of an old school thing on my part. on my part. And so, yeah, that's that's that's kind of interesting. So are there any lessons that you learned from watching me and dad that you have either, you know, good or bad that you brought into your own marriage? Does we all do that? Right. I mean, we all bring our baggage, good and bad, into our next marriage. And then it's up to that new couple

to sort through what they want to keep or discard. Yeah. I guess I think that you guys were really good about it. And it's almost foreign to me because I have heard about some people who like they live together and they're married, but they, you know, effectively don't have a life together. And what I always really, you know, they sort of do the wrong thing when they come home and they're separate. And, you know, there's like, you know, maybe they just don't seem to want to share their life so much, even though they might be under the same roof. so much, even though they might be under the same roof. And I felt like with you guys, even though there was always craziness going on, and even though there was all this, you know, sports and kids have tests tomorrow and somebody's sick. And it was like, literally, it's always something. You guys always made time to talk together. You would, you know, be like, we're gonna,

we are going to go out to eat every once in a while. This is mom and dad are talking right now, like everybody out of the living room, we're a conversation like it was very apparent that you guys were um always uh you know in conversation with one another always on the same page at the end of the day and and that you also were a united front against us kids which i think was really important um it was not like if i asked mom then you, you know, I can get around dad. Like we just knew that mom would say go ask dad and dad would say go ask mom because they wanted to be on the same page. So I think that was something that I think is really important.

And even though I don't have kids now, I always make his point about talking to Michael about ourselves and our marriage pretty frequently and how we're both doing and also what are our like plans for the future and making sure that we're on the same team and on the same page as a couple, which you guys really demonstrated. We'll have more of this conversation after this. Yeah, I think that's probably one of the most important things. And listen, I grew up in a family where the kids could separate the parents and they weren't on a united front. And so I knew that, you know, that's what kids do. That's what naturally, you know, they're going to try and do their kids. Kids are manipulative and they want to get what they want. And I knew that was a source of conflict. One of the sources of conflict in my own parents' situation was that they weren't always a united fund and didn't always have each other's back against us. And so when I got married, for some reason, that's something that stuck with me.

And I was like, OK, we can't let that happen. So we have been that. And we do take time. We always have taken time, even in the craziest, you know, just had a baby, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, seven kids and a new baby or whatever it was, you know, whether it was a cup of coffee in the morning or going out to eat once in a while, whatever it was that, you know, you prioritize your marriage. In the end, you guys all, you know, go on and have your own lives.

And, um, and, and if we don't, you know, care, take care of our little garden, our little marriage, um, and we let that fall into disrepair or let it, you know, um, shrivel away, you guys leave and what will we have left? And so we have each other. And so I'm glad that that's something that that you noted. And I hope that you do bring that into your own marriage. Any thoughts on like when you think you might be thinking about having kids? Is that something you and Michael talk about? No. Well, I mean, we definitely talked about it, but I feel like I've had a lot of kids already. So fair enough. Fair enough.

Yeah. You know, I'm not going to lie. Every time you call, I think I might be getting some news. But it's usually not that. It's never been that, I should say. not that um it's never been that i should say um and and and and moving moving forward into into your marriage do you and and and michael have any immediate goals as a couple as a couple um well i think i think like immediately we'd like we're in Hayward right now for a stint. Michael's working construction, which I he's actually really happy doing.

And he comes home and he's got these giant calluses on his hand. And so I'm proud of him for for doing that. But I think, you know, you don't want to be doing a job like that forever where you're breaking your back. So we were definitely making plans to get him to use his math degree and get out of rural Wisconsin probably at one point and do that. Because I think, you know, having him have a career that he's really happy with is a really important thing. And one that actually is long lasting because he can't do construction forever. It's a really taxing job on your body. And, you know, for me, I want him to have that too, because I'm really happy with my job.

I love working at The Federalist. I love, you know, writing and being in politics and commenting about things that really mattered to me. And so I want him to have that kind of fulfillment too. So what's something that you learned about Michael that you didn't know before you got married? I don't know if there's something I didn't know. I really don't think I can. I just, I think I knew pretty much everything about his personality and who he was. That's a terrible answer. I don't really think I have anything. No, that's a terrible answer. I don't I don't really think I have anything. Yeah. OK, well, no surprises that that's that there's there's nothing wrong with that.

What would you say to young women who, you know, maybe they're in a relationship already and but they're not sure they want to get married? I mean, there's definitely a lot of cultural forces out there saying, you know, hold off or maybe live together first and see how it goes. It is a big leap, especially in this economy. And then, of course, all the all the cultural forces that are telling women, you know, to just just wait. What would you say to them about you know making that that leap because you and I have talked about it before marriage is kind of a crapshoot you know you don't know exactly I mean you you get married you don't know what you're going to get all the time yeah so Michael knew that he wanted to marry me like years ago when I was a freshman in college, he said that. And we had only been dating for, you know, six months, not a long time. And I was did not I was not sure about that at all until, you know, my senior year of college. And I think that women naturally have a tendency to be

cautious about these things. And men tend to fall in love really quickly. And that makes biological sense, right? Because the consequences for women in relationships is usually having a child. And, you know, do you want to have a child with somebody that you want to have a child with somebody that you can rely on who really loves you? And so instinctively, I think are really cautious um about taking that kind of plunge uh and i kind of see it the opposite of you i see a lot i i've heard more men being

sort of getting cold feet and not wanting to get married or not popping the question um i would say michael's unusual in that way well so so I think that both men and women have been culturally told not to get married young. I think that's very true. I think with women, there is an added biological aspect to it. And so my advice to women is to say, decipher what is speaking to you, right? Because you don't want to get married for this young for the sake of getting married young. You want to get married to whoever the right person is when you find that right person. And so it's deciphering whether that's your conscience saying this isn't the right person or if it's this sort of feminist lie that you've been told since you were a kid that you won't have value if you haven't established your career as a law partner first before you get married. Right. What are your priorities and really understanding yourself and your own motivations behind not getting married or getting married or whatever, whatever the deal is. So I think deciphering that and knowing what is motivating you is really, really important. Because once you find the right person,

I don't think it matters your age. As long as you're of the legal age, you should then make the plunge because otherwise you open yourself up to a lot of problems. There's studies that say women who have been with a lot of different guys are really unsatisfied in their marriages. If you don't want to be taking your future spouse out for a test drive before you get married, that's not necessary. It's not respectful. It doesn't lead to a good relationship. So I think there's balance. Don't get married for the sake of being young, as some really, really conservative sex might do. But also don't wait just because you've been told this lie that you can't have value if you are a wife and haven't established a really successful and important career.

But what do you say to those who say, well, you can't really launch your career if you're married, if you have babies early? What do you say to that? Yeah, I think that's a lie um I think I mean I'm somebody who's married now and I'm doing you know fine and also there's a real benefit to the world being very digital and I'm I'm able to do what I can what I can do here from rural Wisconsin on my laptop uh which is right super super convenient um I I don convenient. I think that definitely there are so many more opportunities

for women. There's a lie in perception that women can't make anything of themselves if they get married or if they have children. But I also don't want to lie to people and say that marriage doesn't come with any sacrifices because it does. And I think it's more about realizing that the payoff of having a family and having that support system is worth some other professional sacrifices that you might have to make. And I also think it's about growing up. There's this weird perception now that in your 20s, you have to party a ton and, you know, sow your wild oats, at least for men, and you have to do these things. And for most of human history, that wasn't true. You know, you're a grown up. You don't need to act like a child anymore. You know, you can take responsibilities. You can make sacrifices because that's what adults do. And I think that there's a

lot of infantilizing of adults now. Yeah, no, that's definitely absolutely true. And often, you know, we talk about how it's being told to women, men are being told that much to the detriment of so many women who are like, well, he won't pop the question. Or, you know, just, yeah, you meet a lot of man babies out there because of that sort of, as you said, it's a relatively new cultural trend. You go back a couple generations and not only were young men fighting wars, but they were married and having kids when they came back, you know, immediately and so forth. And it's very rare to see young people getting married, although it seems like it's a little bit of a trend. To get married young? Yeah, to start. Yeah, I mean, maybe in a countercultural trend, maybe among, like, Christians,

it's the same way that, you know, going to Latin Mass has suddenly become a really, know interesting gen z trend where you have this like in the 60s and 70s it was you know in the spirit of vatican too and everybody wanted the english mass with these weird churches that were like you know i remember in the 70s seeing liturgical dancing i mean how weird is that yeah yeah there is a there is a return to the more traditional yeah i think that it's the reaction to to how secular um things have come how divorced it's become from from tradition or just from from beauty in general and people being attracted to the way that things have gone in the past even if you look at like if you look at food you know

there's like all of these food gurus who say you know we're apart we're doing ancestral living we're going to eat the way that our ancestors did because food now is all processed and and not normal and we have now lab grown meat and so there i think and i think that that's a reasonable thing to say you know what we're surrounded by all of this new trends, whether that be in food, whether that be in religion, whether that be in marriage and family, and people are just saying, enough, this doesn't make me feel good, this doesn't feel right, and there's a countercultural movement back to tradition. What's the best part about being married? tradition. What's the best part about being married? It's fun. You know, I think it's fun to have a best friend with you all the time and you guys can go. I mean, this is also, you know,

it's a it's part of the upside of, you know, being a couple with no children or being a couple with only one or two kids. Right. But we get to just kind of do whatever we want. We get to go out to eat, you know, go do fun things. There's always, you know, somebody who will come with me. And so that's that's really nice. It's like having having your best friend with you all the time. You guys are best friends. And that is the best way to start a long-term marriage is that it's based on friendship. And it's based on the fact that you actually enjoy being with each other, that you're each other's favorite person to hang out with. And it's really clear when people see you two together.

I mean, I knew it was going to be fine. You know, people often asked me if I was, you know, stressed that you were so young and wanting to get married. And I always say, no, not at all. But I think it had a lot to do with Michael, too, that Michael was somebody that I, one, knew really loved you, two, that you guys were a great friendship, you know, that you guys hung out and loved hanging out together and can talk about anything and, and have a lot of values in common. And when we got to meet his family, um, got to see those values, um, you know, match up with ours in so many ways that, you know,

it helped us understood, understand more of who he was. Um, but yeah, I think that seeing you guys together, it just, it just makes sense. And so I'm just so happy for you guys. Well, I just think it's an interesting conversation to, you know, kind of see, see where things have gone since the last time we had this conversation, which was just before your wedding, which was so beautiful and such a joyful event and that you guys are still going strong brings joy to my heart. And we're looking forward to both of you guys coming back soon for Thanksgiving

and then for Christmas. So anyway, well, it's great talking to you, Evita. We'll do this again. We'll have to do it with dad next time. Maybe it's going to be a father-daughter conversation. I'd like to do an interview of you guys. Everybody should tweet at mom or leave comments if you want me to do a podcast with mom and dad

asking them all of my real-world questions. Oh, a real-world podcast. Oh, yeah, that's actually a really good one. A Q&A on the real world? Yes. A Q&A on the real world? Oh, I, that's actually a really good Q&A on the real world. Yes. A Q&A on the real world. Oh, I like that idea. Okay, we will definitely do that.

And you can leave the questions. That's interesting. That's very interesting. Yeah, we're going to make that happen, Evita. In the meantime, thank you for joining me today. Again, looking forward to seeing you in person soon in the next month. Thanks for joining us, Evita. Thanks for having me, Mom. All right. If you've enjoyed this conversation, I did for sure. And so just let us know. Subscribe, rate and review this podcast

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