From the Kitchen Table: The Duffys - Q&A With The Duffys: What's The Orange Peel Theory?

Episode Date: November 25, 2023

Sean and Rachel sit down to answer pressing questions about love and marriage. Together they share their thoughts on the latest viral relationship test, the "Orange Peel Theory", and weigh in on why they believe small acts of service are the key to a great marriage. Plus, they reveal the best gifts you can give your partner that really show you care for them. Follow Sean & Rachel on Twitter: @SeanDuffyWI & @RCamposDuffy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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BetMGM.com for terms and conditions. Must be 19 years of age or older to wager. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Hey, everyone. Welcome to From the Kitchen Table. I'm Sean Duffy, along with my co-host for the podcast, my partner in life, and my wife, Rachel Pimple Duffy.

Sean, we are going to have a Q&A that's really a love Q&A. Really? Yes, because there's been a couple things that have come up on what is, you know, what is the best first date question. There's been some controversy about that. I have a lot to say about it because there's somebody who's been slammed for her suggestion. I actually think her first date suggestions are pretty good. The second one is this new TikTok viral trend. It's sending TikTok into meltdown, actually. It's based on, it's called the orange peel theory. And the orange peel theory supposedly helps you figure out whether the person you're with actually really loves you. So we're going to go over the orange peel theory. Here's a hint. You're actually pretty good at the

orange peel theory, Sean. That's a hint. So we're going to break down that theory in a second. But first, let's get to first dates because we talk a lot about love and making time in your life for love, prioritizing your love life, getting off the social media, even the social media dating apps and turning those, if you're on them, to turn them into real life in-person dates right away. And so then the question becomes, what do you talk about? How do you figure out, you know, in one or two dates, if this person is kind of worth pursuing? Do I invest more time is the question. Do I want to actually, do I want a third or fourth date with this person?

And sometimes it takes a little while to get to know that as we've all gone through dating lands, sometimes you waste or use a lot of time with someone that maybe you're not going to, you could have figured earlier that you were not going to be with. However, through those experiences, we all learn and grow as well.

There's good that comes from that., we've talked about in past podcasts, we've talked about dating, you know, like the 80s. And if you haven't heard that podcast and you're looking for love, that is a great podcast to go back to. We talk about giving it some time, right? Because you and I, it took some time for the magic to happen. For people to come around. For people to come around. I had magic earlier than Rachel. The magic popped up in the head and she's like, I love you. It took some time. Big podcast. You got to check it out.

It is a great podcast. It has some really good advice. And that talks about how it takes some time. But there are some things that can give you really quick insight. So I think there are more than this question. But this one is the one that's kind of melting down the internet right now. So there was this wellness expert, I think she was from Australia. And she suggested that one of the best first date questions is, how do you feel about COVID and the pandemic? Posted this and she got excoriated as like, basically, who are you? You are giving the absolutely worst love advice on the planet. Like, this is so dumb.

You should never be on the internet again. Who could be so stupid as to think of that? I heard her question and I thought, she is spot on. COVID was one of those moments that really defined, you know, how you feel about COVID, in other words, explains a lot about who you are. And how you feel about it right now, after everything that's come out, kind of tells you everything you need to know about, you know, this person's sense of, you know, from everything from health to liberty to where, you know, how you feel about really big, important things that actually in the end kind of matter.

Because you and I have always talked about if you're going to get married and you should, to marry someone who's more like you, as opposed to someone who is diametrically opposed to you, you want to find someone who you share a lot of values, common with, values, faith. The important things, the things that last. Right, exactly. Not the flavor of your ice cream. That's not as important as what your faith is. And so this is a fundamental question because if you're like, listen, I think the masks were so important. I religiously wore my mask and I wanted more mandates. I love the lockdowns. No one should have gone anywhere. And frankly, if I saw someone walking in a public space without a mask on,

I would absolutely publicly shame them. Well, if you're the other side of the table, you might be like, me too. I would publicly shame people. You're like, you two are meant to be together. This is a mask. You two Karens belong together. And if you're like, listen, I thought I love my freedom way too much. And I didn't I didn't get vaxxed.

I tried not to wear a mask. Or I got vaxxed and I regretted getting vaxxed. Or I got vaxxed because I wanted to be. I didn't I believed everybody. But then I'm not going to get boosted a bunch of times because, you know, there are some middle grounds in there as well. But the point is, I think it's, I think it's just so fundamentally reveals your worldview. And we talked about how worldview and deep, important values matter in a relationship. And I know for myself, as a woman, I would not want to be married to a beta male who's masked. I mean, I remember my sister, you know, in Virginia during, you know, the height of the pandemic, and she'd see all these liberal beta men

running outside wearing masks. And she would just be like, I mean. And not small masks, like the big diaper mask. Yeah, she was. Like, you need to stretch your eyes to be sad. She's like Virginia was just so at least the part of Virginia that she lived in, which was kind of closer to D.C., was just full of so many beta males who were just afraid of life, man. And she just was like, it was so depressing. But it was a great way to figure out who was an alpha male, who was a beta male.

If you like alpha male, they probably are mad. When I was in D.C. and I'd go there, you know, randomly and regularly. During the pandemic? Yeah, I started to ride the scooters. And I hate people that ride scooters. It's embarrassing to be seen on a scooter. And so I hated wearing a mask. But the only time I loved to wear a mask is if I got on one of those scooters.

So no one would know who you were. No one would know who you were. And I would get a big one and cover my face up and scoot it to the city. You know, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said she liked wearing masks, not just because it was going to protect her from all these, you know, humans with

their germs and their COVID, but also she said it made it easier because you didn't have to get, you know, do your makeup. So there was an anonymity and some makeup stuff. But I think it was really, I think it was a really great question

that she put out there because if you ask how someone feel, felt about the pandemic before, during and after, and listen, there's a lot of room in the middle for people who just weren't sure and changed their mind or whatever.

It's a great way to find out someone's worldview, what their values are, how they feel about freedom, and also how they feel about health. You know, do they believe that being healthy and working out outdoors and, you know, vitamin C? And I mean, there's a lot of sort of health awakening that happened because of COVID, like not depending on pharmaceuticals. How do you feel about Big Pharma? Go ahead. But here's the brilliance of it. There's a lot of conversations you could have to get to

the root of those issues. This one, you'll be confronted in your face with their world. Right away. And so at that first coffee or that first dinner or that first meetup, if you're like, so how many kids do you want to have? So what's your religion? Are your parents married or divorced? How much money do you make? Which you never ask them how much money they make. I'm sorry, people that talk about, you know, money, that's ridiculous. That should never matter. You would be like, you're interviewing me to marry me. And that would turn me off. Like if you like talking to me about marriage on day one and trying to see how many kids you want. Yeah, that could be a turnoff.

I want a fun, natural conversation. And the COVID conversation comes up because it's the court's event. It's something that we all went through and it's a natural conversation starter that would give you a lot of insight without having to ask those uncomfortable questions of how many kids, what's your face? You're right. You're right. It's very revealing. And you know what, Sean?

It is the current event because right now they're saying things like, oh, ivermectin actually did work. Oh, but it's on page 12 of the New York Times. So the front page. They said it was horse medicine. front page they said it was horse medicine yeah they said it was it was like a horse medicine so there's a lot of things that are coming out now about lock about lockdowns the education of kids the education kids but also like they did a study just it just came out in the last couple weeks where they now have a very definitive study on you know the lockdowns here versus versus in Sweden where they didn't.

And there was really no difference. So we didn't need to have a lockdown. We just need to protect vulnerable populations like the elderly or those who were, you know, had a lot of comorbidities and we would have been fine. But anyway, it's still in the news. There still needs to be a reckoning. My co-host, Will Kane, says we need to have COVID tribunals. And I totally agree with that. Nobody's been held accountable for it.

So obviously, you see the passion. I mean, we're just talking about it as a question. And you can already see how we feel about it. I think a lot of people have a lot of opinions on either side or in the middle. Great way to find a worldview. So I like that. And that's also, I think, relevant too. When we were younger,

sometimes you're not looking to get married anyway, right? You're just looking to date and- Have fun. Have fun, right. But as you get a little bit older and the clock is ticking for both men and women, you're like, I'm gonna get to the heart, the root of the issue right up front.

Easy way to do it. Conversation starter. And you'll end up having a great night of drinks and laughs after a common COVID conversation. Or you'll end the day really quickly. If you're the guy and you're traditional, you're going to save yourself a little extra cash because you might not have a nice drink and you're not going to have dessert. You're going to have fun. That's funny. We'll have more of this conversation after this. on and what that means for you and for Canadians. This situation has changed very quickly. Helping make sense of the world when it matters most. Stay in the know. CBC News.

Well, the other one that's just as good, Sean, is how you feel about Donald Trump. That's just as, you know, polarizing. And how do you feel about COVID pandemic? You could ask that. How do you feel about Joe Biden? Well, by the way, if you're dating like it's the 80s, that's a question you may have to ask. If you're dating online, there's probably you can answer that question right up front, because if you're a Trump supporter, a lot of women are not going to go on a date with you anyway. So you probably know where the women are at. Yeah, you can read them out. But again, it's better to weed them out as you can. Right, and that's what I, that's exactly it.

Because now all the social media apps, you can, of course, have different criteria that will weed people out. And there are people that say no Trump supporters or no, you know, Democrats or no atheists or no whatever. You know, I'm not opposed necessarily to those things that are especially like religion. If religion is important to you,

it's okay to have that as a marker, as a benchmark for something you want your partner to meet. So I think that's interesting. This woman got excoriated online. I thought it was totally unfair. Why were they passionate? What was your problem with the question? Because, I mean, is that so funny that you do that?

Because some people think like, why? Politics shouldn't matter. I mean, remember we had Arthur Brooks on and we had a great conversation. That's a great podcast, too, where we talked about happiness because he wrote a book about happiness and he studied happiness. happiness and he studied happiness. And he and I agreed on everything in that podcast, Sean, Arthur and I, except on the question of politics, because he thought you should not worry about somebody's politics in a relationship. And I don't it's not that I care about politics, like politics is my religion. It's just that we're at a point in our country where politics reflects values. Can I say something?

And so I disagreed with him on that. He was like, well, the world's too political. We should just not talk about it. I'm like, I'm sorry. It's just, I don't want to, you know, I don't want to date somebody who is rabidly pro-choice. The first date. What do you feel about transitioning kids?

Yeah. What do you think of, you know, abortion me i mean what do you think of you know abortion get there but you know what i'm saying that's why that's why that question is so good because the pandemic doesn't feel like how do you feel about abortion it feels like how do you feel about this current about like you said there's a lot of people um young people especially who are like i'm a liberal i'm a progressive And that could turn a man off right away. But if you sit and have a conversation, you might notice they're not that hardened in their views.

And actually, as you talk to them, you might realize actually they're not as progressive as they're saying in the conversation. Or they're saying at the start of the conversation, they might have a lot more conservative. But also women will get married and they are Democrat voting or sort of like marginally, you know, liberal. And then they get married and have kids and have to pay taxes and, you know, worry about what their kids are being taught in school. And suddenly they start voting Republican.

That happens too. Yes, absolutely. That happens too. That's interesting. So there's this other trend on TikTok. It's called the orange peel theory. Not orange theory, but orange peel theory. The orange peel theory.

And it started because somebody posted a screenshot of their text exchange with their ex-boyfriend, ex-boyfriend, ex-girlfriend. It's a text exchange. And they posted it. And in it, they were sort of talking as exes about what they missed about each other. And, you know, you know how that goes, right? I mean, sometimes the relationship's over, but one person, it's still hard, right? And so she wrote, I really miss the way you would peel my oranges for me in the morning, you know, before we went to work. And then she says, did you learn how to peel them yet?

And then she replies, no, not really. I still get juice all over and my nails, which I can relate, you know, I have longer nails, my nails, you know, end up puncturing it and it just can't get it right. And then a while later, she posted a follow-up conversation that I finally learned to peel my own oranges. And so for some reason, this text conversation just exploded in a lot of different directions.

So one of the directions was some women were writing and going, good, she learned how to peel her own oranges. Like, you got to be self-sufficient. You can't depend on a man. Which some women, that was their takeaway. But for other people, the takeaway was, yeah, I could peel my own oranges, but I love that I was with someone who wanted to peel my own oranges. Then the conversation went off in another direction,

which is how there was really something beautiful between them in that he knew, you know, he peeled her oranges and how we all ultimately want to be with someone who's thoughtful enough to know she hates peeling your oranges. She's not that good at peeling your oranges. I'll just peel them for her. And what are the signs? Because a lot of women are in relationships, especially in the dating relationship space, but this could be marriage too,

where they're like, I wonder if this person really is, does this person really love me? Are they in it for the long haul? Are they truly in love with me? And sometimes we're, you know, laying in bed and I'll go, Sean, do you still laying in bed and i'll go sean do you still love me you know and i know you still love me but i'd like to hear that you still love me absolutely well you asked at the right time but but you know what i mean so the question is

are the these little gestures the peeling the orange, the little kind things that we do for each other are actually a better indication of whether someone is in love with you than these grand gestures. Oh, I got his tickets, surprise tickets to Paris. You know, that could really be about the other person or trying to prove that they're, you know, you know, these grand gestures aren't as meaningful as these tiny little things that couples do for each other. Yeah. And as you told the story, I kept thinking, this is the problem with living together before you're married. Right?

Yeah. Thank you. We can go back to that. That's a big topic. Obviously, you know, they were getting up together because they're living together. These peanut or oranges, they're living like they're married, but they're not married. And again, I think I'll think, I'm'm going to be people can say I'm old school. Oh, no, I think we should have this conversation.

There's a lot of a lot of people who are choosing. They'll use a lot of excuses for financial reasons. We can only afford to move to this place if we live together. We need to get to know each other. I need to know that we can have good sex together. I mean, that's a lot of people say all the time. It's a test drive. I think broader humanity, that's not the way we've done it because that's not the

best way to do it. If it was the best idea, the human beings and cultures would have decided, why don't you just take a test drive with each other for six months or a year and see if you really want to get married. We've developed to go, actually, that's not actually good. That's not healthy. When you get married, you marry and mate for life. And we were rewriting rules and we're now seeing the consequences of that. We write up the rule. Well, the data backs it up, Sean. The data proves that people who live together are more likely to get divorced. Or separated. Or separated than those two. So if you live together before you get married, you're more likely to get divorced. If you you live together before you get married, you're more likely to get divorced.

If you do not live together and get married, you're more likely to stay married. Isn't it kind of fun when you get married? There's a lot of fun stuff going on. It's a life change. Maybe you're lucky enough to go on a honeymoon. We waited on one press we drove back. So we got in the car the day after,

or two days after our wedding. Yeah, we went on our honeymoon after. And then halfway home. I wish we'd gone to the honeymoon right after. That would have been fun. Well, you said you're setting up a house together. Yeah. The brand new little nastier building together

that's exciting. And we were sanding floors and painting. People are doing that as they're living together, but it's just different, right? But my point is when they get married, they've already done that, right? They've already gone through this experience that you would want to save for after you're married. It's one of these, I think, beautiful things that couples share when they wait.

I want to get back to the orange tree, but before, I want to say this too, because I think it's, we've talked about this on podcast before about why making that marriage commitment. And in the case for us as Catholics, it's a sacrament. Um, so we are, if you like it or not, Sean, we're bound forever, but it changes the way we fight. So fighting is actually part of being married. And by the way, if you're married or in a relationship and you never fight, there's a problem. And the way that you fight when you're married, when you believe you're married for life, it's just different. It changes the way you fight because you can't leave.

And knowing that you're in it for the long haul just changes that. And that's one of the problems with living together too. You live together because there's always a little out. I mean, more so than marriage, of course, living together means you're test driving. And so that's going to change the nature of the way you fight or the way you feel. I mean, listen, there are times you get really, really angry at the person that you're with. And,, listen, there are times you get really, really angry at the person that you're with.

And, you know, it can be tempting to allow your brain to go in that direction of, I'm out of here because you're so angry. But when you're married, you can't have that feeling. And so you just mentally don't go there. But when you're living together, of course you would do that. It's just human nature. So it changes the way you fight. Let's go back to orange peel theory because one of the things I was thinking about, what are the orange peel moments that you have for me?

Like, what do you do for me that's equivalent to the orange peel? And actually, when I started to think about it, I realized you're actually really good at orange peel theory. I know. You have Excel. So I might have my phone on the side of the couch or the side of the bed. And one of the things, I'm terrible about charging my phone. And it will die at the most inopportune times. And Sean, you know that.

And if you see my phone, you will look at my phone, see how low on the battery it is, and you'll actually charge it for me. What do I say? But it always comes with a little comment. Phones don't charge themselves. But I so appreciate that because it's just one of those things like no matter how much I've had those, you know, my phone die and or almost die and I'm bummed about it or I can't find my charger. I still lose my phone a lot around the house. I just love that you think about that. And by the way, it seems to me like there's a gender issue. Maybe I'm wrong about it. But guys think about charging phones more than women. Yeah, he does not have a charge phone.

It's horrible, right? And I think I pick what charges my phone a lot because when it's not charged, it's a horrible experience for me. So Rachel gets up early to go to work. She gets up on the weekend. On the weekend. I get up at 2.45 in the morning. And sometimes I don't wake up and sometimes I do. And if I wake up, when she wakes up, I oftentimes have a hard time falling back to sleep.

And so I'll ask her, she sometimes is late. I'm like, you just tickled the bottom of my feet. Because it makes it fall asleep really bad. In a minute, I'll be back asleep. I'll take a minute out. You will. Yeah. If I'm not super, super late, of course

I will. No problem doing that at all. But I do think you're probably better. I think you look at small things. I look at the way our house is kept. And Michael, you do that for you. But I also do it for me as well. The kids say that, the kids insist. So yesterday I got a lecture from

my daughter-in-law and I was like, I already read an article about how women like you feel like their life is out of control and so their house is something they can control and that's why you're doing this that's why you're making a scene to pick up and that's why you're always so fastidious about the house and I'm like yeah that's

true and she's like well you're using us to deal with your with your control issues. But yeah, no, but I really believe as a woman, and maybe this isn't very feminist of me, but I do believe as a woman that it's my job to create a home. And I believe this will sanctuary, this home is our sanctuary.

And that for me, I know I'm very affected by my environment. I believe we are built for truth and beauty. And that includes my home. And I want my house, even when we had no money, I would try to keep our house as nice as we could afford to and always as clean as I could. And that's really important to me. I want a sense of peace.

And actually it was interesting because we have our kids have come home. Our older kids have come home for the holiday. And yesterday, one of our kids, our oldest daughter said to me, you know, mom, I just love being home. And part of it is because it just feels so cozy and clean and inviting. And I just want to say thank you for that. And honestly, it was one of the nicest compliments I've ever gotten. And it reminds me to ignore all those little kids around the house

who are complaining all the time when I'm asking them to do chores because ultimately all of us are contributing to the house, but also it's a reminder that I'm teaching them to appreciate orderliness, cleanness. There's a symmetry to the way I like to decorate and the way I like the house to be in a warmness. So when I was a senior in college, I lived with three other guys. the house to being in a warmness.

So when I was a senior in college, I lived with three other guys. A hard place to live was so absolutely disgusting. It was. I can confirm that. At the end of, no, that's not law school. Law school was pretty bad too. Was it worse than law school? You would not want to

walk on a carpet without a pair of shoes on. It was disgusting. And I remember going home at the end of the school year and laying in my parents' living room on the carpet. And I'm like, my God, this is so great. I love this clean and sharp. It was so disgusting when we laughed. But also, I look at laundry. You can go, hey, listen, we're going to split it up.

This is your dirty laundry. This is mine. I'll do the kids. But, you know, you can go, hey, listen, we're going to splurge up. This is your dirty laundry. This is mine. I'll do the kids. But, you know, you do yours. And we actually share the laundry. You know, I do laundry. I fold clothes. But oftentimes, you probably take more of the laundry.

I do do more laundry. And you know it's the drawer I hate the most. I'll find my stuff nicely. It's all clean and folded. I have to put it back in my closet, which sometimes can get a little bit, you know, disorderly. And yeah, that happens a lot. I have to, should, basically just clean it and I will.

But yeah, you do that for me. I offered to do your closet and you said you didn't want me to do your closet because you're afraid that I might throw away things that you actually want. So that's interesting that you brought up the chore thing

because there's this new app that came out. And essentially what they found is that there was a study done and they found that when it comes to chores or the sort of the division of labor in the home, that not only is the division not equal, but more importantly, women perceive that they're taking on more of the load than the men perceive the women are. perceive that they're taking on more of the load than the men perceive the women are. And so in other words, women think that they have 70 some percent, they take on 70 some percent, I forget the exact number, 75% of the workload in the house. But only 16% of men agreed that

women take on 70% of the workload. So there's a discrepancy between how people feel about it. And so there's this bank that has this app and they created this app. I believe it's in the UK and they created this app. And basically it, it allows each partner, each person in the relationship to input what they do. So I would say, okay, I spent four hours this week on laundry. And you could say, well, I spent an hour, you know, washing and loading the dishwasher or whatever. And, and then you could kind of that now you're not going to have that discrepancy, that disagreement about who actually did more because the app is actually keeping track for you. And there's data behind it. We can see who did more and less.

And I thought about it and I was like, this is awful. I just think marriage just isn't 50-50. I mean, you want it to be, it sounds great in theory, but honestly, it comes out in the wash, right? It should be that, I guess, over time, maybe, but at some points, you're really busy, and I'm just gonna have to take up more of the workload. And other times, you're gonna have to take up more of the workload. And I hate this idea of measuring so much. So that's not to say that I don't go, hey, this hasn't been, this has been a hard week, you've been slacking. And I've definitely had those kinds of conversations with you or the outside outside you know the trash needs to be taken out or whatever but i don't think i want to measure it why are you laughing so listen so here out of it's just our marriage where this

is a male female thing okay so i suffer in silence with my thorns and taking care of stuff i have to take care of and and we both saw publicly and we all got to hear about all the things she's done and all the work she you know she I'm a martyr are you saying I'm a martyr and I'm like you know what stuff goes wrong bills get paid you know things happen you know in in my space I take care of and I just do it silently I I take care of. And I just do it silently. I just take care of it. You know what? I did this and now I'm tired. And you blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, I don't ask you to do the things that I take care of.

And by the way, I've been gone in something that's in my space that I normally take care of. If it goes wrong and Rachel actually has to do it when I'm not there, oh, do I hear about that? That is like, this is a man job. You should be taking care of it. I'm like, I'm not there. I can't take care of it.

And you're like, no. That's true. That's true. So, but I do say this. I just do. There are some, there are a lot of things you do quietly. Like, for example, when I got married, I decided, I literally can remember like a year before we decided we were going to get married, I remember paying my electric bill.

I had a single woman and going, I can't wait to be married and never have to deal with the bill again. Like, I just hate the process of dealing with, I just hate everything to do with finances. As soon as Sean starts talking about finances, I fall asleep. I cannot stand it. I'm super 1950s wife like that. I don't want, I'll make money. I have no problem making money. I have a problem dealing with the finances, paying stuff off, bills, checkbooks, setting up accounts to pay stuff off. I can't stand it. I don't want to hear about it. It bores me to death. So when Sean does the bills and he has been doing the bills our whole marriage, I know there's a lot of wives that do that, by the way. And I know you would love to be married to a wife who would want to do that. I just don't want to do it. I hate doing it.

I've told you before, I would rather clean 20 toilets than do the bills in the house. I can't stand it. And I am super grateful. You have always dealt with the taxes. You've always dealt with the deal, the bills. Can I tell you something? And I flipping hate it. So in the online age, we oftentimes will order something that you don't know if the color is right or the fit is right, how it looks. So you order stuff.

And most companies are pretty good. You can return the stuff that you bought. And so I'm pretty good. I order stuff and I'm really good about returning things. Me, not so much. Rachel, so me ordering something, I return it. If Rachel orders something that has to be returned, I'm brought into the return process.

And it's like, you need to do the return and you put the label like i didn't get the email i'm gonna put you in a so i can't do the return in the everyone so i get involved and i do that as well let me tell you one of the nicest thing rachel does rachel's a good cook um and a really good cook um and it doesn't happen all the time but like last night I came home and you had made, I don't know what it's called, but it was-

Because I had dinner with the kids every night. Ham and lamb, vegetable, kind of, don't forget. I made you lamb shanks. Lamb shanks. In a wine tomato sauce. It all was eaten and I came home to a beautiful little chunk of ham,

lamb shank with all of these vegetables. And it was delicious. And you set it aside like, I'll be glad if there was some leftover when I got there. And you just sent some aside. And it was delicious that I could eat when I got home. So oftentimes throughout our marriage, you show your love through cooking

and making delicious food. Yeah. And I love to cook. I love to cook for my family. And I think that's a real expression of love. We'll have more of this conversation after this. I do think this app, Sean, is not a good idea. It's a terrible idea. It's that whole idea of, you know, I do this, you do that. I do this, you do that. Marriage can get sick in marriages. People can get, I mean,

all kinds of things. People can lose people can get i mean all kinds of things people can lose a job there's all kinds of things that create inequities and in the end you know nobody promised you when you made your vow i said it was going to be 50 50 and you get working out you can talk about you know things that make you feel like the other person isn't pulling their weight and that's an important conversation because you don't want people to get i don't want to be resentful and i don't want you to be resentful and that that's an important conversation because you don't want people to get, I don't want to be resentful and I don't want you to be resentful. And that's an opportunity to talk about it.

But an act where you put in the hours of time that I spend. There are some marriages where it is incredibly lopsided. And one person appears to be almost slave-like to the other. And that's not a healthy relationship. That's not a healthy marriage.

And I think it's important to start young to go, listen, lay like to the other. And that's not a healthy relationship. That's not a healthy marriage. And I think it's important to start young to go, listen, we do want to have more equality in the work that we do and we should talk about it and try to resolve the discrepancy of who's doing more work. And sometimes again, some suffer in silence, some suffer publicly. And so that conversation to bring more balance because that actually, that fight can morph into a larger fight with resentment.

It can burn into other issues in your marriage. And you want to resolve that. And you want to feel good about the things you do for your marriage and for your family. And if it's a little bit more here

and a little bit less there, that's actually okay. But also beyond the division of labor, I think in general, like having a family, having a home, having children is work. And the attitude that you bring to it is really important. I always think about, I always think about Mother Teresa when I start to feel sorry for myself because I'm, you know, doing too much. I really try hard to pray and

think about it and go, you know what, I'm called to serve. Like that is the call, my calling as a Christian woman. And, and actually be able to serve people that I love, like as much as I love you and the kids, that's a, that's a privilege. That's an honor. And, and so I think it's about, you know, it's, it's like Mother Teresa says, do small acts, you know, with tremendous love, you know, and that is, you know, that is the sign of what in every day we get a chance to do small acts of kindness. This is the orange theory, right? With a lot of love and those little acts. And that's why I really like this orange theory, Sean, because I believe that those small acts of kindness that we do in our own home, because I always say, and by the way, Mother transforming these mundane tasks, whether it's emptying the dishwasher, cooking dinner,

doing the laundry, folding the clothes, all of these things can be transformed from mundane things that make us feel sorry for ourselves or resentful and into beautiful acts of service. You start the conversation by, you know, the big trip, we're going, surprise, we're going to Paris for the weekend. First class tickets. But I've never.

That's never happened. That actually might stress me out. Don't ever do that. Even if you had the money. Don't surprise me with a trip like that. I would hate that. But my point is, if that's all that you do, like that is like, you know, once or twice a year, I try to drip you in jewelry or I try to, you know, take you on a big trip.

But I don't do the small things. The orange peel theory. The marriage is going to fail because a couple of times a year, you know, bringing someone on a trip or buying them jewelry, that isn't that is the real love. Because love is service is to your point. And it's these tiny little things. You know, getting someone a cup of coffee in the morning. You do do that for me. It's so sweet.

You know, there are tons of small acts that we can do for each other, you know, throughout the day. Sometimes, you know, Sean's rushing off to work and I know he's, you know, I'll make his lunch for him or whatever it is that he takes his he hits very particular he brings his lunch to work and he likes it a certain way he actually likes to make it himself i do but um reason to rush i kind of help him through the process also he doesn't make the black bean he loves black beans on his salad and I make them better than him.

And so I do. But it's the little things. I think it's a reminder, small acts of kindness, not just for your partner, but for your children. I did, I think the nicest thing I've probably done for you recently.

So I went on a trip that had to give a speech, a couple of speeches. And so I had some time in between the two speeches. I was at a hotel and I thought, you know what? I never do this. I haven't done it in over, you know, a decade and a half. I'm going to get a massage. I had time to kill.

And I was at a place that had a spa, a hotel. So I booked myself a massage and it was amazing. And I thought, gosh, this massage is so good. But as I was getting the massage, I was thinking, I wonder, like, I could do this massage because Sean just had shoulder surgery and I, you know, he could probably use some of this. So I thought, I'm going to learn as I'm giving my massage. I'm trying to remember what they're doing to my body so I could maybe give a massage back to Sean. And then when I was done, I was like, I can do this at home. So I ordered off of Amazon a massage table

and some sheets for the massage table and a little pillow that you, one of the things I love when you get a massage is they put that pillow behind your knees. Underneath your legs. Underneath your knees. It's just so ergonomic. It feels like it's perfectly positioned. And then I bought some massage oil.

And then I've been giving them a massage. Well, a couple weeks later. So I was like, I got the table. Where's the massage? We were so busy during that time. But you're like, I'll give you the massage. And then I laid down at the table. I turned off the lights.

I lit some candles. I don't know what you played on your phone. I looked up on my Apple on like relaxing spa music. And it was like I was in the spa. And so sometimes you might think this massage with your spouse might last five minutes, maybe 10. You gave me like a 30-minute massage, maybe more. I think it was larger than that. It was the nicest, greatest, most relaxing.

No, there was a moment and I had to leave the room. Here's the moment that doesn't happen in the spa. I could hear the kids fighting. So I had to leave the relaxing spa room outside to go and stop kids. I didn't break up a fight. The masseuse usually doesn't have to break up fights outside the massage door. I had to break up a fight and I came back and finished the massage.

But that was actually a great investment. And it wasn't that expensive actually on Amazon. And the table was really comfortable. Really comfortable. It had the thing so you can lay flat and it has like the old. Yeah, like the donut hole kind of thing so you could you could do that in a place to like rest your arms underneath as you do that so i know and i look forward to giving you one um as well it was so good i'm like i want to do this for you because

it felt so nice yeah again the the professional masseuse is better just to be clear i'm gonna get better i actually want to learn how to do it better. It was a really good massage for a beginner and a really nice gesture, especially, you know, with my shoulder. And, you know, it was wonderful. So, again, I think all these things, I think you're right. I think, you know, not just marriage. In dating, I think it's really nice to do all nice gestures for people.

It's a huge signal, right? It's a... Totally. A simple gesture to go when we... Not I'm taking care of you, but we're going to take care of each other. We're in this together and you both do those things for one another. I think it's the signal that we want to

take care of each other. We want to help each other. Don't we have all these singles from the 90s? I think it's called Singles. With Bridget. I can't remember her name. Do you remember? I can see her face. You know who I'm talking about. And I think Pearl Jam had like a cameo

in it. And she's... There were two guys that she, you know, there was the hot kind of cool guy played by, God, now I'm not going to remember all these names. I know who I'm talking about. Single. Single. I'm trying to remember his name.

Anyway, the cool guy and then the kind of reliable and nice guy. And the cool guy, she would sneeze and he would never say god bless you and then the other guy she would sneeze and he always remembered god bless you and in the end that kind of was a signal to her it was a small thing right but like you sneeze and it was Bridget Fonda and Matt Dillon. Yes. Matt Dillon played the cool guy. And he never said, God bless you. It was Campbell Scott and Kira Sedgwick.

Kira Sedgwick. She's married to Kevin Bacon. So that is, yeah, that was actually a really good movie from the nineties. If you're watching, it's been a long, it's been a long time, but I'll never forget that. She, you know, that was the moment that she knew that was her orange peel moment. And think about if you're in a relationship right now, married, dating, think about those orange peel moments that you can offer your spouse. But also, especially if you're in a dating relationship and you're trying to figure out, is this the guy for me? Is this the gal for me? Think about if you're in a dating relationship and you're trying to figure out is this the guy for me? Is this the gal for me?

Think about if you have any orange peel moments with that person. And of course you can do these things yourself. I can make myself coffee. You know the song with Miley Cyrus I can find myself flowers I can hold my old hand. I don't really want to do that in life.

I want to be married. I want to be in a relationship. I want to be married. I want to be in a relationship. I want to have somebody. I can do these things myself, but I'd rather be in a relationship with someone who loves doing those things for me and vice versa. And so think about those things. These are wonderful ways to know if you're in a good relationship

with a thoughtful person and if that will last. This is once you get beyond the ineffable stage of actually going to date and we're like into each other because sometimes that can be too nice too early can not play so well. You don't want to be love bombed either. Right. So. But actually I'm going to tell you what, the love bombers out there, they're big gesture. They're big gesture people.

Sometimes, listen, sometimes, you know, love can be pinnacle. And being in too deep too early can be a problem. No, I agree with you. I agree with you. I'm actually agreeing with you. Then you can start doing the orange peel theory. So let's have a good conversation. Internet bringing us some hot topics.

It is. I think actually these are the most important topics in life. The meaning of life. Yeah, it is. It is. Marriage, family, love. Yeah, listen. Good chat, Rachel.

Thank you for joining us at the Kitchen Table. We love doing our Fridays, kind of our non you know, non-political, easygoing. It was a little bit political with the COVID conversation. But it was political, but it was about, you know. It really was about love. Yeah, getting to the point where you learn as a person and finding someone like you. So, yes, political, but politics and love, maybe go ahead and go out. We love doing this Friday podcast.

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