From the Kitchen Table: The Duffys - Senator Ron Johnson: Taking A Stand For Natural Immunity

Episode Date: January 8, 2022

This week, Sean & Rachel bring Senator Ron Johnson (R-WI) to the Kitchen Table to discuss the latest on COVID-19. Senator Johnson emphasizes the importance of natural immunity when combatting the pandemic, and expresses how he wishes the CDC would exercise more modesty in their assumptions since there is still so much unknown about the virus. Follow Sean and Rachel on Twitter: @SeanDuffyWI & @RCamposDuffy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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we're back with a very, very special guest today. He's our friend, but he is also our senator from the great state of Wisconsin. And he's been an absolute fighter on everything to do with COVID and vaccines and really pushing back against big tech, big government, big pharma. And that's Senator Ron Johnson. Senator, welcome to the kitchen table and happy new year. Well, happy new year to both of you too. Thank you. So let's start off with a tweet. So you tweeted this week, and I'm going to just go ahead and read it. For some reason, it caused a lot of stir. I'm really surprised that it did, given everything we know now about Omicron. But you said, the truth is, the fully vaccinated and

boosted can get infected and are transmitting the disease. Biden and the COVID gods don't want people to know that. Just like they ignored and sabotaged early treatment, reality is dawning. They don't want to be held accountable, so they lie, distort, and cover up. They can't admit they've been wrong because their mismanagement costs lives. They will use all their substantial power to divert attention away from their culpability. And for some reason, Senator, this brought out some interesting characters, not just liberals and Covidians attacked you, but also like Jonah Goldberg and a lot of never Trumpers went after you. And they tried to basically say that somehow you were like Amish and not liking science.

I'm like, it was very confusing. And I think it's because you touched on natural immunity and have been talking about natural immunities since the beginning of this. So you responded really quick. So I want to show what you responded. You said, once again, the COVID gods are attacking truth. I won't apologize for being in awe of creation or the assumption that immunity from COVID infection might outperform immunity created in a lab. Unfortunately, the vaccines aren't as safe or as effective as we hoped. Why, Senator, do you think that these tweets, which are based in truth, are making so many people so angry? Well, that tweet thread that you were reading was really in response to a pretty nasty tweet

that was reacting to an interview I gave in Wisconsin. I was just talking how odd it is and had it been that our federal agencies, I call them the COVID gods, the media, the big tech and our federal agencies, that they have refused to recognize the benefits of natural immunity once you've caught COVID. There are upwards of 140 studies that prove the benefits of natural immunity. Now, it's not perfect, but we're all singularly focused on vaccines. And listen, I supported Operation Warp Speed. I'm the champion of right to try. But unfortunately, the vaccines are not as safe and effective as we all hoped and prayed they would be. And what seems to be more durable and certainly as if not more effective than the vaccines is natural immunity, but we won't acknowledge that. And so I think I've added, you know, why would we completely jump to the assumption that natural immunity won't be good?

Because that's what the COVID gods did. Why would we assume that, you know, the immunity that really has been given to us by our creator, it's a marvel? It truly is. The more I've been connected to this global network of medical researchers and doctors, the more I've learned of what a marvel our natural immunity is. Now, obviously, you have viruses, you have bacteria, you have illnesses that are always attacking it.

But the fact that the vast majority of people that even get COVID survive is a testament to the beauty of natural immunity. So again, I was just to a certain extent defending natural immunity and pointing to the fact that natural immunity was granted to us by our creator. And that obviously gets people pretty worked up. I guess people don't want to acknowledge that we have a creator. They don't want to acknowledge the marvel that is creation. And let's face it, even vaccines, what they do is they trigger that natural immunity. So I was just really standing up for our creator and the natural immunity that we are granted.

for our creator and the natural immunity that we are granted. But at the same time, our creator gave us our minds and has given us science. And we utilize our minds and science to create vaccines, create therapies. So I'm not dissing what we can do, but I was just making the very simple point that natural immunity is really pretty amazing. It's amazed me that the default position, the assumption by Fauci and the COVID gods was that natural immunity was going to be awful, so everybody's got to take the vaccine. That just never made sense to me. But I guess when you actually bring up the fact that we are created, that we have a God, and God created something marvelous that is not acceptable, apparently. Well, and I think it's interesting, Senator, you were standing up for what is pretty obvious, that when we are infected with a virus, usually if we can beat it, we usually get an immunity to it in some form. What I found interesting when this whole COVID conversation started, there were

assumptions that were made. And one assumption was that if you got COVID and you recovered, we weren't sure how long your immunities were going to last and it was probably going to be short-lived. That was one assumption. Or shorter than the vaccine. And then the other assumption was with the vaccine that the vaccine, if you take it, the antibodies you get from the vaccine are going to be long lasting. Two assumptions that seem to be wrong when we now look at the evidence, because I just, I won't even take the data that I've seen. I'll just take my personal life. I know almost everyone I know has been at least double vaxxed. Many of them have been boosted. And almost everybody's getting COVID right now.

And so the fact that... But everyone that has natural immunities, we know one person who had COVID and got Omicron. And that's what's so frustrating about this to go, well, why are we saying... Again, I agree with you. I supported warp speed. I think what the president did with his team to bring a vaccine to market so quickly is remarkable. But we should also acknowledge that there are some shortcomings, and we're seeing that right now with Omicron as it's ripping through everybody, whether you're double vaxxed, whether you're boosted. I mean, it's wreaking

havoc. And again, I think it's upending this, I don't know if this is the science, but the narrative of the overlords that have been telling us one thing, but we're seeing something else in reality. Well, the first thing we should acknowledge is that there's so much we do not know about coronavirus, about COVID, the disease, and about the COVID vaccines. So that, to me, would indicate that we ought to be a little more modest in all these pronouncements, all these assumptions. It certainly tells me that we ought to exercise caution as we recommend a mass vaccination into the middle of a pandemic. things could go wrong. For example, the virus could try and evade the vaccine. Is that what's causing the variants? I was talking to medical researchers who

were highly concerned about mass vaccination into a pandemic that would create variants. I mean, is that what has happened? I don't know. I don't know that anybody can definitively answer that question. But, you know, here's a question rarely asked, never answered. Why were 40 to 50% of us, and I was one of them, that got COVID but was completely asymptomatic? Could that be because we have fabulous natural immunity that I had, you know, coronavirus has been around forever. You know, most reside in animals, but there are a few that have infected human beings. Did I get one of those coronaviruses? Was my immune system, did it recognize enough of this coronavirus to attack that? I mean,

I don't know. You know, I took other actions. I was trying to boost my immunity during this whole, I mean, I don't know what happened, but all I know is 40 to 50% of us were asymptomatic with COVID where it killed other people. Why? We haven't explained that. So again, I would, I would just, I just wish that the COVID gods would exercise a little more modesty, recognize that they don't have truth, that there is all kinds of science out there. And some science contradicts what they claim to want to do. There's a different narrative. There are second and third opinions that are also valid.

Yeah, listen, I'm 66 years old. For as long as I've been alive, it seems like I've always heard that when you are dealing with a serious medical issue, boy, get a second opinion. Yeah. Get a third opinion. But that's not allowed today. There's only one opinion allowed. There's only one narrative. Everything else is censored, suppressed, vilified, attacked. And as a result, I think tens, if not hundreds of thousands of Americans died because we did not pursue early treatment. That has been denied. I mean, what other disease? Don't we say early detection allows for early treatment, produces better outcomes? That's what we try to do with everything, including cancer,

but not COVID. COVID to this day, almost two years in, is do nothing. Take some Tylenol and hope you don't get so sick. And then we don't do a whole lot for you in the hospital, quite honestly. We don't use these cheap, generic repurposed drugs that, you know, I have enough experience referring people to doctors. I certainly believe they work. Yeah. You know, Senator, I think that's, I mean, we can sit here and talk about the narrative, as Sean talked about, what hasn't worked out for them. I personally think that the curtain's getting pulled back right now. I think Omicron might be an inflection point where people are finally waking up. I think part of the reason why the CDC said 10 to 5 days,

it kind of admitted, well, we have to get compliance, which means people are starting to go, this is BS. We're not going to comply to 10 days of quarantine. And so I think there's a break. I don't know how big that break is. I've been actually really shocked at how submissive the American people and the world has been to these COVID gods, as you call them. But I think I want to get to the heart of this. And I think you're right. You're 100% right. People died because there was a suppression of early treatments. There was a persecution of doctors just trying to do their work. Why is this happening, Senator? Why have we seen so many people in the medical profession persecuted, silenced, as you said, not allowed to give a second opinion, deplatform. We see this with Dr. Malone most recently, but others. What is happening? Who is behind this? Is it big pharma?

Is it profits? What is going on here? What is your best guess? Probably both of those things. It makes no sense. This pandemic has cost so many lives. I would never downplay the severity and tragedy of it. Of course. It makes no sense. This pandemic has cost so many lives. I would never downplay the severity and tragedy of it.

Of course. But it's also the human toll of the economic devastation of our response to this, the human toll of the vaccine injuries, which are real and they can be severe. And we're completely blowing that off as well. So I don't have a good explanation for you other than to say it makes no sense whatsoever. And again, the more people learn about things like ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, budesidine, and zinc, and vitamin D, I mean, these should have been all on the table. They are safe. They've had decades worth of experience using them. Or even healthy living. Healthy living. How much money did Michelle Obama waste or spend,

I should say, on obesity announcements and public service announcements? This would have been the best opportunity that summer, opportunity that, that summer, that spring, that summer, when we all kind of were locked down to go, Hey, everybody lose weight, get outside, get vitamin D, get better, get in shape. I mean, this could have been, I mean, we were all scared out of our minds. That would have been the best way. Well, listen, I was ridiculed for suggesting people use mouthwash, even though NIH on its website has a study talking about that can reduce the viral load. Dentists do that routinely before they see patients now. It's a protocol for people to reduce viral load in your oral cavity. And yet, when I just warned

constituents on a telephone town hall, a few thousand constituents, I'm saying, take this latest surge seriously. This is a deadly disease. You know, look at your vitamin D level, you know, vitamin C, zinc, I mean, all these things, you know, gargle. Yeah, that was over a two or three day story, ridiculing, vilifying me. Yes. But unfortunately, you talked about the doctors being attacked, their medical licenses are being threatened. These are the heroes of COVID. They have the courage and compassion to treat patients.

Where you've got the people in the ivory towers, you know, the COVID gods, all these pronouncements, they're not treating patients. who are actually on the ground treating patients, using these things in the midst of a pandemic, experimenting, sharing their experience, trying to save lives, as opposed to just sitting back and going, well, it's not proven. It's not good enough for me yet. Do nothing. Watch people die. I mean, that approach has made no sense, but that still is basically the approach of so many of our medical community because they're taking the safe and easy route. They're going to be less likely to be sued if they do what the CDC says, even if the CDC says do virtually nothing. I mean, again, this is insane. Our response has been a miserable failure.

Over 800,000 people dead. The human toll, the economic devastation. How could anybody look at our response and say it's successful? Why would anybody listen to Fauci? I have no idea. And Senator, I think it comes back to a key tenet of what has happened during the pandemic. And that is that we've shut down debate. And it's so important when you don't know

all there is to know, especially at the beginning about COVID, when you don't know what treatments might work, what may not work, you want to debate because there's no truth. No one knows the truth about COVID, especially at the beginning. And the fact that they shut down dissent from Fauci, the fact that they wouldn't let people try. Again, you're the author of Right to Try. That Fauci shut down. Well, Fauci did. The media did. All the little do-gooders on social media, big tech themselves, they corralled the debate, didn't let it happen. And therefore, smart doctors who were actually treating and having success couldn't get their version of success out, what they were seeing in real time. That wasn't happening. And my fear is not just what's happened

during COVID, is now that once the pandemic is over, this censorship of debate, and you listen, you're in a great institution where you debate. I was in a lesser institution in the house, but we debate, we argue. And usually you come to a better consensus when you talk through things and listen to people. That's how things have worked in this country throughout our history. And through this pandemic, it's over. And I'm fearful that it's going to last beyond the pandemic, that someone says this is right, and we all have to buy it. Even though we all know it's wrong, we all have to shake our heads and go, okay, sir, that's right. The vaccine doesn't hurt anybody. There can't be any treatment for COVID. Natural immunities don't work for people who have had the virus. It's insanity,

Senator. So you follow the money and you realize with Anthony Fauci in charge of the NIAID for, what, four decades, allocating over that course of time, you know, $400 billion, I think the figure is, of different grant money to research institutions, universities, to hospital systems. People are not going to buck him. And so what he says is basically it's law. I mean, you don't challenge Dr. Fauci. And that's why so few doctors have had the courage and compassion to break outside of his non-recommendation and actually practice medicine. It's been a travesty. And you're right, I'm so concerned about our medical establishment moving forward. I mean, the corruption of science, the corruption of our medical journals. I mean, people can't get published.

They can't get the independent review boards to look at their research. They're being silenced when what we should have done is in the flourishing of the internet, there should have been such a free exchange of doctors. We're trying this, we're trying that. Now, I had Pierre Corey come to my committee. I'm not the health committee.

I'm the Senate Oversight Committee, but nobody else is doing this. Pierre Corey come to my committee. I'm not the health committee. I'm the Senate Oversight Committee. But nobody else was doing this. So I had Pierre Corey come in May of 2020. And he talked about the use of corticosteroids versus ventilators. It saved patients' lives. Then I brought in Peter McCulloch, who now is presenting to audiences of tens of thousands because people want early treatment. After his testimony, the New York Times labeled all of us the snake oil salesman of the Senate because we're just advocating early

treatment. Then I brought Pierre Corey back in in December of 2020. His opening statement went viral. Eight to nine million people listened to it because they wanted early treatment. YouTube censored it. Why? What is going on? What are they so afraid of? I mean, is it all about you have to line up behind Fauci because he's granting tens of billions of dollars? Again, it makes no sense when you understand the human toll in life. Yeah. Wait right there. We'll have more of this conversation next. there. We'll have more of this conversation next. Visa and OpenTable are dishing up something new. Get access to primetime dining reservations by adding your Visa Infinite Privilege Card to your OpenTable account. From there, you'll unlock first come, first serve spots at select

top restaurants when booking through OpenTable. Learn more at OpenTable.ca forward slash Visa Dining. You know, it's also been interesting to see the hospitals. You know, Sean and I have a lot of friends that work in different hospitals, different hospitals associations, and it seems like administrators were setting the protocol based on what the CDC was saying and weren't allowing their own doctors who wanted to prescribe ivermectin or hydroxy or whatever the early treatment was, they weren't allowing them to do that. In addition, it seemed like there was a financial incentive to say that a patient died of COVID when maybe they died with COVID. Can you talk to me about that and the role of hospitals and hospital associations in so much of this misinformation

around COVID and the treatment? Well, again, you're right. They've just fallen in line behind what the CDC recommends or doesn't recommend. And there are. Is that to cover their ass? Is that to cover their butts? You know, they're less likely to be sued if they can say, well, we just did what the CDC said. So you have that, you know, we're such a litigious society. So you've got that incentive to just don't go outside of what the CDC says, which is

also true. Medicare, Medicaid, they're paying people to take care of COVID patients. There's fees on ventilators. I hate to say this, it's probably a relatively easy way to take care of a patient, put them on a ventilator and just sedate them. So again, it's been such a travesty. And I've talked to enough people who have begged their doctors, would you prescribe this? And the first thing out of their mouth is, oh, there's no proven studies. There are all kinds of studies. There are meta data analysis of this stuff that show it's effective.

And it's also safe. So why not give it a shot? But they're not willing to do it. Finally, some of these doctors have admitted, well, I mean, I can't because if I prescribe this, I'll get fired. I'll have my medical license pulled. So the threats are real out there. And they're continuing.

They're pervasive. And they have cost hundreds of thousands of people their lives, is my belief. I agree with that. And Rachel and I, we both had COVID. I took hydroxychloroquine. Rachel did not. And she thought she was taking it. It's an internal fight that we have, Senator.

But I took it. I was sick for, when I say sick, I was a little bit nauseous for a couple of days. And I was really tired for about five days. Rachel actually got fairly sick. She had sweats and body aches. Yeah, about eight days of just feeling really awful. A little fever. I feel like Superwoman now, though.

Right. And so just without, I don't know, we're just a study of two, but I did really well with it. And I did hydroxy, and she did not and did not do well. And by the way, he had to get a secret bottle, Senator. I won't tell you where he got it from, but he could not get it. I mean, he knew he had a connection, a very high up connection. No, again, these are FDA approved drugs. I mean, on average, through the FAYER system, the FDA adverse event system, on average, there are about 15 deaths reported per ivermectin annually, 15. For hydroxychloroquine, it's 69. For the standard flu vaccine, it's 77. We've surpassed 21,000 deaths reported on the COVID vaccine.

Wow. That doesn't prove causation. But is that a government number that you're using? Yeah, those are government numbers. I get censored on that all the time. Why isn't that out there more? I mean, that is a high number. Because they want it censored.

But again, so you go back to ivermectin, 15 deaths per year. Again, it doesn't prove causation, but that's an incredible safety profile. So why not give it a shot? What is going on here that we're censoring all this? And by the way, it is a multi-drug protocol. Part of the deal is the vast majority of people who have COVID survive it. They get over it without any intervention. The same is true if you're vaccinated and you get COVID, you're probably going to survive it.

Whether you're vaccinated or not, you're probably going to survive it. So when I hear the fouts of the world say, well, the vaccine reduces severity of symptoms, well, maybe that's true. I'd like to see the's true. I'd like to see the real study. I'd like to see them show their work. Show me the data. But how do you almost prove that? I hear people who actually have been moderately sick say, well, thank God I had the vaccine because I would have been really sick. I'm like, well, how do you know how sick you would have been if you didn't have the vaccine? It's really hard to compare those two things. If you didn't have the vaccine, how sick would I be versus I took the

vaccine and I was this sick? I mean, it's un it's unknowable. It's like climate change is like, well, the climate always changes. You can't lose on that one, right? I mean, it's what they did is they unblinded the control group so that we really don't have the data on it. We're not collecting the data. They never show us their work. We have to go to Israel. We have to go to the UK. I mean, I can tell you from the UK from February to about mid-September, 63% of their deaths from the Delta variant were in the fully vaccinated group. In a more recent four-week period, 78% were fully vaccinated. So when you hear President Biden say, well, if you get the vaccine, you won't get sick, you won't get infected, you won't transmit, you won't die. All that is a lie. We don't, again, this is part we don't know because they unblinded the study.

They're not sharing the information. It's going to take like 50 years for the CDC to release at this pace the information they got from Pfizer on the Pfizer trial. release at this pace, the information they got from Pfizer on the Pfizer trial. I mean, I know that Maddie DeGarry, the 12, now she's a 13-year-old girl that I allowed tell her a story of a vaccine injury in a wheelchair. She's got a feeding tube. She can't eat. She's been in this condition since months. She was part of the Pfizer trial. They reported her as a stomachache, basically.

So let's just unpack that just a little bit, because some of our listeners might not know who Maddie is. So Maddie's parents, I believe her mom was an engineer, dad was a doctor. I mean, it was very science-based careers that her parents had, and they were very excited about the vaccine. And they actually did something I would never allow my children to do. And they did it with very good intentions. They put all three of their children into that Pfizer vaccine trial.

She had two boys and a girl, Maddie. The boys did fine, as far as I know. And then Maddie had these really horrible reactions to the virus. As you said, she has a feeding tube. She has all these you know problems president i interviewed her mother and by the way i've been trying to get a follow-up i've been working with my producer i want to get a follow-up with her her parents and and hopefully her but when i talked to the mother at that point president biden had never called her daughter or her. Pfizer didn't. Their doctor was probably, as you said,

terrified and basically told them it was psychosomatic, that it wasn't really happening. How is this possible that somebody, a child injured in the trial, that this isn't a bigger story and that Pfizer has not even acknowledged it? Do you have any updates on this? Because I've been dying to hear. Oh, no, no. Well, it's explained by the thorough corruption within this trial and our medical establishment and our federal agencies. You know, I gave her a forum together with other four other four injured individuals in Milwaukee in June. Now, we had a lot of cameras because one of those individuals was Ken Rutger's wife, who suffered the neurological harm. And so we had probably a couple dozen news cameras in Milwaukee.

Now, they didn't really report on the vaccine injuries. Instead, the Milwaukee General Sentinel, together with all its affiliates, probably about a dozen around the state, had a picture of me, front page above the fold with the headline, so fundamentally dangerous. So it was reported that I'm fundamentally dangerous because I'm just giving people that are vaccine injured a forum to tell their story. Believe them or not believe them. I mean, what's so fundamentally dangerous about having this information?

Well, obviously, Pfizer didn't want the world to know about Maddie Degary. And so they didn't honestly report about her injury. She's been cast aside as is Brianne Dressen, who was part of the AstraZeneca filed, who was paralyzed from the waist down. And by the way, Facebook also took down the support group for them on top of it. They couldn't even get together to talk and get some support from each other. They took their Facebook support group down. These injuries have been so severe, these inner vibrations from the neurological harm that a number of their individuals in their group have committed suicide. So these Facebook groups have been support groups to try and help people that are suicidal.

And so Facebook dismantled those groups. So they lost contact to people that are suicidal. That's what big tech has done for COVID. In addition to censoring people like Pierre Corey and censoring this information, this life-saving information. No, this is, and Americans, because it's been censored, the main, and here's the problem, guys, they'll never admit they're wrong. They're not going to admit they're wrong on early treatment, on ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine,

all these other things. They can't admit they're wrong. If they're proven wrong, look at the consequences. How many lives could have been saved had these people been honest? Had they explored and researched early treatment? Had they recommended? Had they not censored it? And so they'll never admit they're wrong. And they have the power of the media and big tech, because they're complicit in this, to pretty well assure that they will never be proven wrong. That's why I get so savagely attacked for telling the truth. That's why this stuff gets censored. They can't afford to let anybody know what the truth is. That's what

we're up against. That is so right. And we keep asking the question, why are they doing it? And as our listeners know, we don't know. It doesn't make any sense because we think that people have good hearts and they want to do what's, if you're in government, you want to do what's right by way of the people that you represent. And we're bringing questions here because it doesn't seem like the best decisions are being made to help the most people. But kind of going back to what do, are they going to change their minds? I think you're seeing now, even with a lot of the liberals that were get your vaccine, protect America, let's get done with the pandemic. Now many of them have gotten COVID themselves and they realize, well, the vaccine didn't protect me from getting COVID and getting sick from COVID and probably spreading

COVID. And there's some realization that's happening because they can't deny it. But when we were talking about just even breakthroughs, and we don't necessarily have all the science, but you know, Dr. Moynihan, who is the congressional physician. Yes. I don't know if you have a different one. If you guys have him in the Senate, he's the house guy. I know. I'm not sure if he does work for the Senate, but he sent a letter out and in essence said

there's an explosion of Omicron on the Hill. And a majority of them, he said most was the word he used, are breakthroughs, which means there are people who have been vaxxed or even boosted that have most of the cases on the Hill, which would lead us to believe that Dr. Moynihan's not lying. He's trying to tell you, hey, listen, let's do this job and legislate and do it remotely because this is really serious. And even if you have a vaccine, it's not going to protect you because everyone's getting Omicron on the hill, even though you're vaxxed. I think that was one point too. And what frustrates me,

and this is my question to you, we listened to the president who again was just out saying, this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated. That is a bold-faced, blatant lie. It's not. Everybody's getting it and that the president would misrepresent. And my theory is, Senator, that he ran on saying, I'm going to beat COVID. And he did the mask mandates, the vaccine mandates. None of that's worked. I think this is strictly political. And he he says i can't take the blame so i'm going to try to pass it off to the unvaccinated and i think most americans they don't buy that because they see all around them people who are getting sick who have been vaxxed am i wrong it's a really long no they're definitely trying to scapegoat again they'll

never admit they're wrong like they made mistakes, you know, just look at the term breakthrough. I mean, isn't breakthrough generally a good thing? That's not a mistake. They didn't just come up with that. But they should have said that the vaccine is failing in these situations. Instead, they got breakthrough cases. OK, and they're already shifting their story. Great point. Remember, the vaccine, I mean, the vaccines we hoped would prevent illness. But as soon as they found out, they didn't really tell us about this. You know, they came up with this nice little term, this euphemism, breakthrough cases. Like, oh, isn't that great?

But what they started saying, they shift their story. So, well, no, we never thought this would prevent disease. It was going to reduce the severity symptoms. Yeah, that's a lie. That's why there's footage. There's video footage of them saying that. By the way, you're so right on the language. They also when they keep saying asymptomatic.

Well, that just means healthy people, right? Healthy people that it didn't it didn't get them. I mean, I just think there's been so much weird language and changing of stories. So one of the things that's interesting that you brought up, Senator, was that you were having to get studies from Israel because our government wasn't providing that. And I've been really frustrated because I've been wanting to see the studies on masks for children. I want to see psychological studies on what's happening to our kids because of all the masking and the mandates and the fear. And I haven't seen that. And yet, gazillions of dollars through a fire hose went out because of COVID. And I'm like, where's all this money going? What happened to it

all? Where are these studies? What's going on? Why do I have to get it from Israel? So my question to you, because I'm trying to go, what can Congress do? What can senators, good senators like you do? Are you tracking this money? What is happening with it? And how do we keep the bureaucrats and the teachers unions and everybody else who got a piece of this accountable, where did our money go? Well, you know how hard it is to track money once it's spent. And quite honestly,

members of Congress who passed this stuff, they don't want to be proven wrong either. Again, I think the biggest deterrent we have right now, the biggest roadblock, logjam to better policy is just the human tendency not to admit they're wrong, including the public. They don't want to admit they were wrong and put their faith in Fauci. Congress doesn't want to admit that they were wrong in passing all these trillions of dollars, not really figuring out where it's going to go. So no, we're in a tough situation right now. People have to start recognizing reality. I mean, so much of liberalism is about denying reality, denying the reality of basic human nature.

We're in a real pickle here. A guy like me who's been just relentlessly telling the truth has also been relentlessly and savagely attacked and censored. So a lot of my colleagues, they maybe look at me and, you know, more like, I don't want to be wrong. I don't want any part of that. So again, we've got a significant challenge, but it doesn't deter me as you guys are probably noticing here. It just fires me up. This is important. We need to get this right moving forward. We can't have agencies captured by big pharma. And listen, I've always been a defender of big pharma. I remember starting out in 2010 as a Tea Party guy going, what am I, the only guy that wants a new life-saving drug? Companies have to make money so they can invest in R&D. But now that I've seen this in COVID-

Are they too powerful? Is that what you're realizing now? That's what I feel. Yes. And they've captured the agencies. And you have people going back and forth between big pharma into these agencies. And then the grant money. Again, to ascribe this to a profit motive, I mean, we're talking about a lot of money, billions of dollars flowing to pharmaceutical companies. But look at the human toll. Look at the deaths. Look at just the budgetary impact, the trillions of dollars we've spent that we don't have.

I mean, there's something else going on here, too. Is it just the maniacal desire to have a mass vaccination program that we can control people's lives i mean is that what this is about i mean i don't have the answers all i know is there are so many questions i have that make no the the answer there's it makes no sense what's what's it makes no sense whatsoever and you know on that on that point senator i just I'm a believer that, and I think you shared this with me, we came in in 2010 together. You were in the Senate, I was running for the House. And I do believe that it's important to have new blood come into our federal government. I don't believe that running for Congress or the Senate, they're lifetime jobs. I know you agree with me on that point.

But I also know how important it is to have people who understand how government works and where the bodies are buried and how to push for information. And if you don't have people stick around who know how to do that, who know how to use a gavel to get information and get to truth, the American people are worse off. And I think that I know that Republicans are going to take the House. I think there's a great chance that Republicans take the Senate. I think it would be a disservice to America, no pressure, Senator, that if we didn't have you with a gavel fighting to expose what's happened. And again, those mistakes that were made, but we need to learn the lessons of those mistakes. Make sure those who were wrong are held accountable. And I agree. No one has had a voice like yours. I think if someone has

information they want out, they're like, why don't you tell Ron Johnson and see if Ron will do it? Because I don't want to take the heat that that guy will take on behalf of truth and freedom. And so I know you haven't made a decision yet. I do hope that you run. You make our state proud in Wisconsin. I think you make America proud. And when you stand up and fight, no doubt you take arrows. And I know that's not easy on a family. Rachel and I, to a lesser extent, have taken those arrows.

But there are so many people out there who are thankful that at least one guy has a thick enough skin and a big brain that'll go, I love my country and my family and my people, I hope you run again. That's just a plea from one simple man who loves his country and knows that you're going to make it better if you run again, because I know you're going to win as well. Well, Sean, listen, I really do appreciate those kind words. And I'll say they have an impact. Those kind of comments certainly have an impact on the decision I'm going to be making here in the not too distant future, let's put it that way. And truthfully, if I decide to do it again, this would be a big reason. Because who else is the voice for the vaccine injured? If they're not able to tell their stories, if people aren't willing to acknowledge that the vaccine might be the root cause of their

illness, how do they expect to get healed if you're not willing to recognize the root cause? So again, I appreciate your kind comments. It's not an easy decision. I think you guys are really enjoying your life. And by the way, you're doing a great job, both of you. You're a valued voice. I mean, you're not walking away from this. You're in the battle in a different area. So I certainly appreciate everything you've done as well. If I could mute Rachel's phone right now, I would, but I'd say, don't listen to Jane. I know your wife wants you home. Grandkids want you home. I know that all too well, Senator. But I do hope that you strongly consider it. And again, I look at, just to make one last point, I look at why we run. We don't run to be a congressman or a senator. You run to make a difference in people's lives. You run to make a

change in your country for the better. And I don't know that everybody does that, Senator. People go there and they like the name, they like the respect they get, but they don't like the nitty gritty work that it takes to make this a better place. Or the arrows that you have to take if you're doing it right. And you have done that so well. And again, I love that as a Wisconsin guy. You know, and it's interesting. I've always wanted to ask you this.

And so as long as I have you on this podcast, I'm going to ask you, what has given you the strength to do this? Because like you said, there's a lot of senators looking around that actually like what you're doing, but they're like, I'm glad he's doing it and not me. What is it about you in particular? It's your personal life, your faith. What is it that has given you that ability, that strength to withstand all the attacks from some really powerful forces at the highest levels? Well, the flimpet answer is I sold plastic for 30 years, so I'm used to rejection. I think the more serious answer is, A, I know who I am. I know the lies, the distortions. I know how false they are. So I wouldn't say it doesn't bother me. It does bother me, but more as it really reflects on the state of our society and culture and the division in this country.

But I think the main reason is, I mean, I just love this country. I recognize how important it is that this nation not only survives, but thrives for future generations. I recognize we are that shining city on the hill. The world counts on us. We're not perfect, but we've been a phenomenal force for good in the world and to our citizens. I mean, America's a marvel. It's our freedom that allows us to dream, aspire, build, and create. This is something that has to be preserved. So that's why I do it. And specifically, as it relates to this issue, I'm helping save lives.

Maybe that sounds arrogant, but it's just true. By putting Peter Corey on there for him talking about corticosteroids, I've had doctors come up to me and say, you saved my patient's life because I listened to that testimony. I've heard so many stories of people who've been revived off of ventilators of ivermectin. And so many of them say, I saw this Senate testimony. So as you did, Sean, you run as you guys are both doing now. You do it because you do love this country, because you can have a positive impact. And then you end up with the feedback that, you know, by God, I mean, some of the things I did do, even though I was criticized at the time, people didn't want me to do it.

I was vilified. It had a positive impact on lives. And when it comes to COVID and early treatment, that kind of stuff, it's actually helped save people's lives. And that's, I mean, that's right. That's not nothing. That is not nothing.

We'll be right back with much more after this. I just. Oh, interrupting their playlist to talk about defying gravity, are we? That's right, Newton. With a Bronco and Bronco sport, gravity has met its match. Huh.

Maybe that apple hit me a little harder than I thought. Yeah, you should get that checked out. With standard 4x4 capability, Broncos keep going up and up. Now get up to $6,000 in rebates on eligible 2024 Bronco family models. Visit your Toronto area Ford store or Ford.ca. or Bronco family models. Visit your Toronto area Ford store or Ford.ca. One last reminder I'll give you,

and I saw this as well. When people are angry and they hate you, they are very vocal. And a lot of times when people are happy, when they're content, they're like, thank God, that's my guy. They don't say a whole lot. So all you see is the negative and you hear the negative.

But I'll tell you that from the people that I talk to, they're so grateful for you like we are. And again, you don't hear that. They don't make the posts on Facebook. They don't have the power of a social media platform or a newspaper or a TV station or a morning show. But they're out there going, thank God we got that guy in the Senate. And it's not just fighting for Wisconsin. You're right. You're fighting for America. And again, we're so proud of you and so grateful for you, and especially that you would also join us on our podcast, too, and kind of just share a little more light in a little longer

format with our listeners. We appreciate that, Senator. Yeah, Senator, do you have any closing thoughts you want to share with us, something that maybe we didn't bring up that you wish we had? Well, just to say I appreciate the opportunity. I mean, it really is nice. I mean, you guys know the TV business there and three-minute hits or five-minute hits, you can barely get a thought out. So it's very nice to be able to have an opportunity to explain things in greater detail. Even this just flew by. There's so much more. I would say,

by the way, if any of your listeners are interested in the whole subject of COVID and early treatment and vaccines, there are other podcasts out there with Peter McCulloch and Dr. Malone and Pierre Corey, like three hours long that really dive into this. I don't want to take away from yours, but people in the podcast listening audience, there's some good stuff out there. Yeah, there has been. Avail yourself to that. We've listened to those as well.

We've been listening to them and it's been really inspirational. And just so you know, this is Fox's fastest growing podcast that you're on right now, Senator. It doesn't surprise me at all. But I will say this. You know what?

I just want to thank you that people who have had vaccine injuries have at least one person in Congress who isn't making them feel like they're crazy, who's listening to them, giving them a platform, and isn't getting afraid of the fight as soon as the people come after them. Like that headline that you told me that happened after you had that presentation in Green Bay, that's disgrace me that happened after you had that presentation in Green Bay. That's disgraceful that a Senate hearing was deplatformed. I've never heard of that. That's what I really started to say, by the way, that things were really weird. I'd never heard of that. I was like, what is going on here? And so you've just been such a champion,

such a hero. We've been inspired. We're really grateful that you are on our podcast and that we always will consider you our senator. I appreciate that. Invite me back. We'd love to do that. And again, hopefully you discern and discern the right way as you go through the decision-making process. No pressure. No pressure at all, Senator. But listen, thanks for being a wonderful man, a wonderful husband, a wonderful grandfather, but an amazing U.S. senator. So and thanks for standing up for America in this incredible fight. There's not many like you. And thanks for joining us on the podcast. Well, thank you. And God bless you and your family.

You're a very large family. Thank you, Senator. Well, Sean, that was an amazing interview. Can I just say something? When you were saying that, you know, we need people who have been in the Senate for a while who can kind of find all the dead bodies and know where they're at. What I actually thought you were going to go to, and I didn't get another chance to talk to Ron about this or Senator Johnson about this, so I'll have to ask him again. I actually thought you were going to go talk about Fauci because he

has been in there too long. He has amassed too much power. I think they said if he retires now, he'll retire with the highest retirement salary ever in US government history. Of over $300,000 a year. But no, a lot of us like to see the turnover. And it's a good thing to get- So not just in Congress, but in that bureaucracy, probably even more important. But you want new blood to come in. But if I can explain this for a second, it takes so long. Our government is so big and complex, which obviously that's why we're limited government people, but it is big and it's complex. And you need people who have been around for a little

while that understand it. And what I like about Senator Johnson is he has dug in and he understands how to get things done. And you don't want to see a guy like that leave and bring someone else in who doesn't know where the bathroom is. If we're going to be effective, especially at this time where oversight is so critical to get to the truth, you need these guys who have institutional knowledge who can drive and push to get the information out. And you won't get that with a new guy, but you will get that with someone who is battle-scarred. But even when you have the old guys, Sean, they go, they push, they ask, and the bureaucrats just stall and say, yeah, I'm not going to give it to you. I mean, look at what's happening

with even the January 6th stuff. I mean, Nancy Pelosi won't turn over the papers about what she knew about security prior to January 6th. I'm not guaranteeing that you'll get the results, but the best option is when you have people who know what they're doing. And by the way, there's some people who've been there for 35 years and they haven't done anything for those 35 years. Those people should go, but the movers and shakers, the fighters are guys like Ron Johnson. You do not. And that's why I wanted to push him on our podcast because he hasn't made a decision yet. And I do hope he runs. I think there's a good shot that Republicans lose the seat if he doesn't made a decision yet. And I do hope he runs. I do too. I really do.

I think there's a good shot that Republicans lose the seat if he doesn't run. I didn't want to put that much pressure on him. The way that seat is kept is that Ron Johnson runs. I wish you had brought that up. But I'll tell you this too. You have also accurately assessed that you believe that the downfall, it was both the strength and the downfall of Donald Trump, was that he didn't understand the complexity of this government and how to get things done. And that personnel and staffing was policy. And so he made a lot of mistakes because he was a rookie, but he also brought that rookie spirit, right? And the rookie spirit was great things in policy. He didn't care. There was no rules. He had a play by. So he just did what was right for the country. He didn't care. There was no rules he had to play by.

So he just did what was right for the country. That was great. But some of the mistakes he made wasn't the personnel side. And he was fighting the blob of Washington. And sometimes it got the better of him. If Donald Trump came back, oh, I think after four years of what he went through, he's learned and would be better in round two if he decides to run as well. But right now we have a great race in Wisconsin Wisconsin and it'll be that much better if Ron Johnson

continues to run again. Yeah. Wow. It was great having him. He's an awesome guy. I want to really thank the Senator for joining us. It was such a great conversation, Sean. I'm so glad he could join us around the kitchen table. We've enjoyed the conversation. And if you did too, let us know. Subscribe, rate, review this podcast at foxnewspodcast.com or wherever you download podcasts. We hope to see you Around our Kitchen Table next week. Bye-bye.

Bye, everybody. Jason and the House, the Jason Chaffetz podcast. Dive deeper than the headlines and the party lines as I take on American life, politics, and entertainment. Subscribe now on foxnewspodcast.com or wherever you download podcasts.