From the Kitchen Table: The Duffys - The Afghanistan Withdrawal's Hellish Consequences

Episode Date: August 18, 2022

On this episode, Sean and Rachel are joined by retired Navy SEAL Rob O'Neill, where they reflect on the one-year anniversary of the United States' withdrawal from Afghanistan. Rob discusses his time as a SEAL in Afghanistan, why he believes that the U.S. should have maintained a presence in the country, and shares stories from his time on SEAL Team Six. Later, FOX News National Correspondent Bill Melugin joins the podcast to give an update from the Southern border. Bill talks about how drug cartels have destabilized Mexico and the reasons why immigrants are venturing to the U.S. in record numbers. Follow Sean and Rachel on Twitter: @SeanDuffyWI & @RCamposDuffy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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BetMGM.com for terms and conditions. Must be 19 years of age or older to wager. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Hey everyone, welcome to From the Kitchen Table. I'm your host, Sean Duffy, along with my co-host for the podcast and partner in life, my beautiful

wife, Rachel Campos Duffy. Thank you, Sean. As always, so great to be here at the kitchen table with you, but also with all of our listeners who we both love so much. Today, we have a great show. We're going to talk with Bill Malujan because there has been I've been saying this for a long time, Sean. Yes, you have. I've been saying for a long time that these Biden policies are not just bad for America and the border cities and everything that we see happening here, but that this is going to destabilize Mexico because rich cartels are more powerful now because of Joe Biden than the Mexican government, which was already weak. And boy, this week, we're starting to see some of this. Just, you know, on our podcast, you hear us talk,

but every morning as I'm having a cup of coffee, I hear when you guys aren't listening to us, Rachel talk about Mexico and what's happening in Mexico with these policies. Yeah, it's a serious thing. It's like one thing if Ghana is destabilized, but this is right on our border. This is one of our most important partners. And by the way, my favorite place to go on vacation. So it matters to me that- So we're going to have Bill Malusian come in and talk about that.

We're going to have Bill Malusian talk about that. No one knows the border better than that. But first, what do we have? But first, we are going to have, well, an American hero. So I ran into Rob O'Neill today in the building and I could not resist. I had to put him on the spot and say, Rob, this is the week, the anniversary of that debacle in Afghanistan. Would you please, please come to the kitchen table? And he was so kind and so wonderful.

Rob's a man of service. He definitely stood up for us when we needed it in the most important way. And it's so great to have you, Rob. It's really an honor to have you. And for those who don't know, of course, everyone knows he was a member of SEAL Team 6, and he is the man who shot and killed Osama bin Laden. Rob, welcome to The Kitchen Table. Thank you, Rachel. Great to see you today. And Sean, thanks for having me. It's actually funny the way it works because I was talking to my wife. First of all, she was jealous because I told her that I saw you today and she was there.

But she's the one that calls me the luckiest unlucky man in the world. She says, like, you know, no matter what happens, if I trip and fall, I might land in a pot of gold or something. That's what my entire life was. You know, I joined the Navy on accident. And just because of a positive attitude and moving forward, I ended up on some of the missions just because it's, you know, one. What we have in common, all of us, is time keeps ticking. And just if you have short term goals, they can turn into long term goals. And one of my favorite sayings, and I don't know where to give credit is wherever you are, be there. And that's how it works. So anyway, long story short, that's

what happened today. I happened to be in there and I ran into you. It's like, hey, it's let's let's talk. By the way, I love that your your wife's reference was a pot of gold. That's something my Irish husband would, these Irish references. Love it. So Rob, this is the anniversary of what happened. This just crazy exit that we now in Afghanistan. But are you of the belief that Joe Biden chose to leave because he thought it would be some sort of good political move because the anniversary of some anniversary was coming up and he wanted to be able to say we got out of Afghanistan? 100 percent a political decision because he like, well, and I'm sure Sean can attest to this, that a lot of people in Washington are just a few layers away from a lot of reality. And they're most of the time where all they care about is their next term. And the people advising Joe Biden were basically saying, if we can do September 11th as an anniversary, this is going to be a big win. And that's what they care about, really, is political wins. And no one's really seen what happens on the ground. Every theater is different. Iraq was

different. Afghanistan is different. Different parts of Afghanistan are different, as are the tribes. But what a lot of wars especially have in common is if you give your enemy a definite timeline, you're going to lose. And even the saying that I knew from Afghanistan that I would I mean, I've I've lived with Afghans. I've I've had lunch eating out of the same bowl with our hands with Taliban. And one thing that was common that they would say is you have the clocks, but we have the time. Right. And that's what it is. And a problem with the time, too, is that right now we may we may be done with Afghanistan.

But unfortunately, they're not done with us, meaning that's where a lot of our enemies are going to be. So this is a political thing. He was being told what he wanted to hear. And, you know, it was it wasn't even American people first or troops first. It was party first. That's what that's what they were all about. And that it's just a huge problem. And their vision of victory is when the troops come home. Not the case at all. We I mean, if if if the troops are still deployed in an area where we're at war, we would still be technically at war with Germany. If you think about it that way. So it's it's a political thing. You know, and I could I mean, we could do episodes about Afghanistan, Iraq, what went wrong, what went right.

And just and it's what it's one of those things that you can't even tell every I'm talking from President Bush, President President Obama, President Trump, President Biden. There's a point in life where it doesn't matter why we're here. We're just here. So what do we do about it now? Like the thing with Iraq, we never should have gone to Iraq. That is true. We never should have left Iraq. That is true. So it's a political thing, political points. And he's just being told what he wants to hear. And then the Taliban right now is just showing us what they want us to see. You know, Rob, I was one who thought, you know what,

we need to we need to come home from Afghanistan. Right. But but also it wasn't it wasn't in the Joe Biden model of let's pull everybody out. Let's go home. Let's give Bagram Air Base back to the to the Afghanis, but also give it to the Chinese. That was idiotic. I mean, that doesn't mean take every asset you have, every boot that you have, you know, out of the country. It should be it should be a drawdown. And that might have been a mistake. I don't know. But I guess if I was, you know, in the Oval Office, I would talk to and listen to my advisors. To your point, it seems like Joe Biden didn't do that. But what do you see as now the consequences a year later? What are the consequences of Joe Biden's action of the pullout? It depends on who we're talking about. The consequences right now for the young ladies and the women in Afghanistan is pure hell. And I mean, we're only seeing what they're letting us see. They were showing some footage of women protesting. Well, Trey Yinks is over there from Fox News.

And he's this. Oh, he doesn't get a promotion for all the amazingly brave stuff he does is beyond me. Again, another story. But he was interviewing women who were protesting. The Taliban is letting you see that the other women who are protesting. They're probably not alive today. And, you know, it's almost like a talking point where they say, well, young girls are not educated. That's just part of it. Not only are they not educated, they're not allowed to leave the house without a relative, a male relative who is with them.

And other than that, they sit at home in a corner, basically in solitary confinement with their other sisters waiting for their parents to sell them to a neighbor. That's and I'm not I wish I was making this up. Afghanistan is a place where before I went when I went when I finally got to SEAL Team six and I asked my friends who were had just been back, I said, what is it like over there? And they said, you wouldn't believe me if I told you, you just have to see it. So it's a different type of world where it is a point where you need to listen to your advisors. Politicians need to listen to their generals. But more importantly, their generals need to listen to their junior officers who need to be listening

to their senior enlisted, who need to be listening to their junior enlisted. We're in a position where junior personnel are only telling their superiors what they want to hear so they don't make them upset so they eventually can get promoted. That's all that happens. So they're telling you one thing, but something completely different is happening on the ground. And you can cut this apart. You know, when I was in Afghanistan in April of 2005, I was living in a safe house in Jalalabad. And I watched as we had very, I mean, we're at a point at Jalalabad Airfield where we would drive out there on motorcycles at night, put a red light on one end, drive a couple hundred meters, put a green light so the C-130 knew where to land.

And that's a very small present with special operators working on the ground. And that's what we needed. But once they started to build that up, you can see what's coming. We're just going to start putting more and more people on the ground and we're going to become occupiers. This is going to be bad. But then again, now once we're here, now what? Now what? And then, you know, long story short, with Bagram, never give Bagram back. Always keep Bagram.

Bagram was a place that was so defended with we're stimulating the economy by employing the locals. But we also have the ability to strike al-Qaeda if they try to make camps so quickly. The pilots flying those F-15s can be back for green bean coffee and karaoke night. And I wish I was exaggerating. You know, you bring up so many great points. By the way, I want to make sure people know that you have a new podcast coming out.

It's called The Operator. And I know that you're going to be breaking down so much of what you know about the military and specifically some of these areas, whether it's Afghanistan or whatever. You're going to be breaking that and much more down. So I want to make sure people know. How do they get to your podcast, Rob? The operator is available anywhere you can find podcasts.

So iTunes and Spotify. And also on my social media, I'm at McHoo-yah, M-C-H-O-O-Y-A-H. And the reason, Sean, you might like this, the reason I came up with that is because when social media first started for me, they said, hey, there's this thing out there called Twitter and just make a fake name and you can mess with anyone and no one will know who you are. So I made it atHoo-Yah because MC because I'm Irish from, you know, my family's from County Cork. I thought you liked that part.

And they say hoo-yah at SEAL training. So I was like, McHoo-Yah, that's great. And so I'm this invisible dude named McHoo-Yah and then my name leaked as Killing Bin Laden. I woke up with like 15,000 followers. I'm like, great. Now I'm McHoo-Yah. Now you're stuck. It's a little bit like Covfefe from Trump, right?

The reason I call it The Operator and that's the same reason I named my book, is I'm not calling myself The Operator. My podcast is for everyone saying, other than the top 1% of people of overachievers, most of us are normal and we just get it done. The Operator is the guy that wakes up at three in the morning to pick up trash in New York City to keep the moving. It's the plumber. It's the woman who raises kids. Rachel, you know about this. You're an operator. Like that's you're taking care of your family better, making the world better. So it's a story about a normal guy who did stuff

by operating. And it's just we're all we're all relative to being the operator. So that's what my podcast is about. It's pretty cool. Well, I'm glad that you were the operator on that infamous day because you were, as you said, at the right place at the right time somehow. And boy, we're so grateful for that. I want to talk a little bit about you. You mentioned it, the condition for these for these girls. But it's really the condition for all children in Afghanistan right now, because of what's happened and because of not just what's happened in Afghanistan, but what's happened in Ukraine, this Ukraine Russia war that I wish we had our government

had done a better job of preventing through diplomacy. Now we're seeing global food shortages, and it's hurting the poorest among us, the poorest of the poor, which, of course, as you know, is Afghanistan. There's massive famines right now in Afghanistan. Children are starving. Also, parents, this again speaks to the culture problem that I don't think politics or the military can ever fix. They're selling, not just their teenagers, but even their infants in order to get food.

Something Sean and I, we've talked about this, Rob. I mean, I'd rather starve than sell my five year old to some old gross 80 year old. I don't understand any of this. But the point is, we spent all this money, Rob, 20 years, treasure, and more importantly, lives lost. Never mind the crappy way we got out of there and lost those 13 guys, men and women. But for what? I mean, if in one year, it goes right back to the way it was 20 years ago. Yeah, that's exactly what I did, too. And again, when I was over there at first, I had interpreters. We hired locals to do pretty much everything for us. And I got some great

relationships with locals. But I asked one of my we were in a relationship with some of my interpreters. I couldn't quite pronounce their name. So they gave themselves American nicknames. So I was talking to my interpreter, Larry. That's what I knew him by. And I said, you guys are mid 20s. I'm like, why aren't you married yet?

And he said, oh, I can't afford it. Meaning my family couldn't buy me a bride. And that's just a different. So and they are. I mean, there's true poverty in in Afghanistan. And I'm talking to the point where I don't mean someone that's, you know, out of work, but still has an iPhone poverty here. I'm talking people that literally cannot afford clothes and they play in outdoor plumbing, weird, they play in outdoor plumbing, weird, bizarre, horrifying situations. And then and then with Ukraine, what's happening there is we've already managed both left and side of the right side of the aisle to politicize it. So, you know, one side loves defending Ukraine. The other side doesn't like the money laundering, whatever's happening. We're not getting the full story. And right in

the middle are the people that live there getting killed. And it's horrifying that we can't even agree that that's bad. And then when we do agree, if we do agree it's bad, we can't agree how to spend the money. Now, you know, it's like, OK, we're going to get 87,000 new auditors from the IRS. How about a couple thousand of those go find out where that money we're sending to Ukraine? Thank you. Excellent point. Excellent point. Another point I made on Twitter today twitter today too is wait a minute as an american with the second amendment if i can't have if you don't want me to have an ar-15 why does the irs need them it's a really good point we can't argue about i mean you can't even agree on anything and in the middle are these poor afghan kids these

poor ukrainian families these poor um you know mothers in ukraine and there's you know there's a famine in somalia and. And we just can't agree that you got one side on the left. They don't want us to eat meat or dairy because the farts hurt the ozone. But people really eat bugs and people are starving in Somalia. But it's 2022. We can we can figure this out if we just knocked it off. But I think it's a good point. You look at the policies of Joe Biden and whether it's in Ukraine, whether it's in Afghanistan, Iraq, not Iraq, but Afghanistan or the southern border, you know, people are hurt by the policy. But I want you to talk about what do you think the risks that we have as Americans today as we look at what happened a year ago in Afghanistan?

Well, the way I see it, Sean, is as from a military and special operations point of view, the issue right now is we've shown like China hasn't been to war in a while, but they've been studying us for a long time, seeing what we do right, seeing what we do wrong. And if you've noticed on some of the stock footage, their airplanes and boats and chips and guns and vehicles and helicopters look a lot like ours because it's all the FIs here. It's the stuff like that. And then as far as leaving Afghanistan, a lot of the people who we trained, Taliban

knows that. So they're going over to Iran and the Iranians are picking their brains for how we do stuff. And, you know, Russia's watching, even though they've gotten themselves in a problem. But then my biggest concern is not only are the terrorists have not forgotten about us. And I'm talking about Al Qaeda. I'm talking about ISIS, a bunch of other ones. You know what they're noticing is, wow, that southern border sure is wide open. And I'll tell you what. And again, I having a guy who's been to war for most of his adult life, I would love world peace if I could lead the charge. No more war. I'm all about

it. However, if I was someone that wanted to hurt this place, I would cross the border, go into Arizona with a bunch of my friends with bombs on our chest, and I would find the first gun-free zone I could find. And by the way, they're already doing that. I mean, they have caught, and they're not sharing the full numbers, and people are trying to track down those numbers, and the government is resisting it. We know that there are, you know, several dozens of known terrorists that have crossed, but I don't think they're being fully transparent about it at all. By the way, you brought up such a, you know, one of the things that bugged me the most, I mean, obviously I was so upset about the young men and women who died, those 13. I was on the air with Pete and Will when they were

just sitting ducks. And it was like, we felt so helpless. I can't imagine how their families felt in that moment. You guys were saying, this is going to happen. You were calling it out before it actually happened. On air, live. I wouldn't doubt if, Rob, we had you on the air that day too. But we were all saying, this is a bad situation.

But in addition to all of that, which again, not to minimize it, because to be sitting home and know your son or daughter is at that airport and that they're sitting ducks and that this didn't have to happen this way is infuriating beyond belief. And by the way, we had a suicide this week of the sibling of one of those who died, too. So, I mean, just the tragedies compounding. But for the average American, they look at the weapons that we left behind. And we're seeing our president's home being raided for documents. How many documents were left at that place? Just another thought. Let alone tanks or planes or guns or missiles.

Yes. Even look at the complete corruption. You know, we send cash over there to governments. And part of the reason that the former president of Afghanistan couldn't close the doors of his helicopter because it's full of too much cash that we gave him. And that's all that at the at the obviously the airport there. We're saying this this is about to be so sad. It's so predictable, yet so preventable. Would someone stop and listen to us? If what I've come up with over the past year is if you took the 23 guys in my team that went on the ground to bin Laden's house, we planned the tactical mission. If they told us a year and a half ago to plan the worst possible way to come out of Afghanistan, we would have done exactly what the Biden

administration did. That's unbelievable. Can I ask you a different question, Rob? I don't know if you remember this, and I don't know if you were there. So back when I was in Congress, after the raid, a number of the operators on SEAL Team 6 ended up at the Capitol Hill Club, the Republican Club, right next to the Cannon office building. And I was down there with a group of probably five members of Congress and a whole group of SEAL Team members

that allegedly were on the mission. Were you there? I haven't met you in the halls of Fox like Rachel. I've been meaning to ask you, were we at the same corner of the room all drinking beer together when you were that i was there we met you and i talked um that's right because i i remember uh um uh congressman schuster looked at me and he said i'm glad you dressed up for this because not you know i'm i like had a i had a pair of jeans on i wasn't wearing a tie or something. And it was just funny the way he said it. And one of his staffers said, Congressman, you don't need to say that.

Whatever. But that was the kind of atmosphere we had at the Capitol. Can I tell you the conversation I had with Schuster? I'm like, I don't know how many. There was probably eight or ten of you guys there. And we were all sitting around drinking beer and having a fun time. And I'm like, who is the shooter? And Schuster said to me, he's like, wait a couple hours. Once they drink a little more, we'll find out is the shooter and Schuster said to me is like wait a couple hours once they drink

a little more we'll find out who the shooter was and I think later on that night you're all like okay I was I did it and that is the great Robin Neal well I wouldn't say right but I had some of the team there and that is that is that is a good example though because that's that's sort of the America we need is that right there that that that sense of pride and that camaraderie and whatever and giving each other a little bit of guff here and there and whatnot. And it's funny that you mention that because when we finished the raid, and I mentioned this actually in the Operator podcast, after bin Laden was killed, I'm talking in the house and then on the helicopter ride out because we actually got rescued by other SEALs, which people don't really know that. The common question was, who got them? And they would say, well, so my nickname was NISRO. It stands for Navy SEAL Rob O'Neill.

So they would say NISRO got them. And the common answer was, oh, great, we're never going to hear the end of it. Oh, shit. NISRO got them? Well, I'll tell you, Rob, when Sean was in Congress, I was home often with when Sean was in Congress I was home often with the kids back in Wisconsin and I would get to hear these kind of tidbits

and I'll tell you and I don't have the greatest memory I remember Sean calling me after that and saying I had the most amazing experience it was one of his favorite moments it's just a beer for you Rob but it was a big moment for Sean.

You know, because it was, you know, it was, you have this, you have this, this, this, this melding of how, how the government works. Right. I mean, you have Congress that funds, you have, you know, laws that are passed. And then you see how the execution side works. passed and then you see how the execution side works and when you see people come together and share stories and actually the information flow back and forth is really positive and it's even better over like four six eight beers and like 10 hours of drinking alcohol yeah what a great what a great moment you're right it is it is good to see you pass all these bills, you fund the military, and now you can see what we bought with our money, which is great guys like that. And then also you go like, this works really well, or this is crap. You guys got this completely wrong. I mean, that's the positive of that.

I couldn't agree with you more, too. And even I get sucked into it now where talking like talking like that, Sean, face to face is great. And that's that's the way, you know, it should go up and down the chain of command. But I'll catch myself now watching TV and like yelling on Twitter about, well, they should have done it. It's like, you know what? Everyone stop yelling. Maybe we can get to get rid of some of these walls here and just talk about it. Because you as a congressman seeing us, seeing we as the shooters, it eliminates so much crap. us seeing we as the shooters, it eliminates so much crap. I wish more people in Congress, the lawmakers, could actually, instead of announcing we're coming over to see the troops, just show up.

Just show up because they spit shine before you get there and it's the officers walking you around. Instead of talking about the VA saying we're coming there in two weeks, just have someone leave lunch at the Capitol Hill Club, drive over to the VA and walk in. They won't even know who you are. Just walk around and ask the Vietnam vet that's sitting there waiting to get metformin or something. How's this? How's that? You know, how do we get rid of the red tape? That's how it should get done. There's just too, I think there's too many, there's too many chefs. And maybe not take a picture for Twitter or video

for Facebook. Just go see people and just go have that real conversation. And I think with, not that that's necessarily bad that these things are posted because you want to show your support, but sometimes it can undermine what is the missionary here to actually hear from me, to talk to me, to support me. Or you just send a photo op. That's right, for a photo op. And I think you can do them both. With a lot of the, just the disconnect between a lot of the like, I think personally, the guy in charge of the Joint Chief shouldn't be a four star general or an admiral.

It should be a lieutenant commander, like like someone that's been on the ground but knows the guys. But, you know, not again. I know so many good four stars. I don't mean to. I'm not. I just said don't broad brush. I'm not trying to do that. But I think that if you're if you're at a point in the military where you're not carrying your own bags, you're kind of out of the loop. Yeah, that's such a great point. By the way, I vote for chief master sergeants. But I don't know if you know, Rob, my dad was a chief master sergeant in the Air Force. And Pete Hegseth tells me he was very afraid of chief master sergeants. But also, you've got to be careful listening to Pete Hegseth because he's angeon. That's true. But also, you've got to be careful listening

to Pete Hegstaff because he's an officer. That's right. You're 100% right on that. He's one of those Ivy League guys, too. Be careful. Oh, no. He burned that one. Or sent it back. He burned that degree. Returned to sender. He returned to sender. Yeah. He's a good friend of mine. I know. I know. I know. You guys

are tight. So, listen. This is exactly what I think people want to get from your podcast, Rob. This kind of insight, this kind of information that only someone on the inside would have like you, somebody who's steeped in that. And then everything you've learned since you've come home as well, your life experiences. I think the operator is definitely going to be something Sean and I are going to subscribe to. Awesome. And you want to say one last word about your podcast before we wrap this up?

Yeah. So the podcast is just like that, too. If you go to at McHuya and put it in the comments, just what you want to hear about. I did is that people wanted to know more about SEAL training. It's called Basic Underwater Demolition SEAL Training. It's called BUDS. So I went through it. It's going to be a long episode, just day to day. I'm going to put some pictures out and stuff,

but just to, but it's, it's back and forth, normal people, a good sense of humor. And I'm going to leave it at another good sense of humor about Pete Hegseth because he did that swim. Navy seals do the swim around the, um, around the statue and three and a half mile swim. I was talking to one of my buddies that was Pete Hegseth's swim buddy when he did it. And, you know, Pete always says he did it,

which he did. But I asked my buddy who's a Navy SEAL, how was that? He goes, taking Pete Hegseth across the Hudson was harder than SEAL training.

Oh, that is great. Hey, by the way, I have a new son-in-law who, you know, has always dreamed about being a Navy SEAL. And by the way, Rob, a new son-in-law who, you know, has always dreamed about being a Navy SEAL. And by the way, Rob, this is another topic for your podcast. He didn't join because he didn't want to have—this kid's strapping.

He should be a Navy SEAL. He's handsome, strapping, smart, math major. I mean, everything you would—our country would want. And damn good looking, too. That is a prerequisite for being a SEAL. Yeah, that is a prerequisite, right? And he didn't join because of the vaccine mandate. And so, you know,

I can't wait for you to do an episode on how many kids, how many good men are lost because of that and what can be done. I'm going to make sure that my son-in-law listens to your podcast about that training, because he's going to love that. I will, I will do an episode strictly on that. And I'll probably have some guests in to talk about it too. That's great. All right.

Rob O'Neill, the operator. We love you. Thanks for joining us. We're so grateful for your service. Wonderful day. You're great to listen to, and I'm happy to be a part of it. Thank you. All right.

Thanks, Rob. We'll have more of this conversation after this. Breaking news coming in from Bet365, where every nail-biting overtime win, breakaway, pick six, three-point shot, underdog win, buzzer beater, shootout, walk-off, and absolutely every play in between is amazing. From football to basketball and hockey to baseball,

whatever the moment, it's never ordinary at Bet365. Must be 19 or older, Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you or someone you know has concerns about gambling, visit connectsontario.ca. Well, now we're going to take another pivot in topics after Rob O'Neill and head over to the border. Which is just as bad as Afghanistan, frankly. It is. And they all kind of feed together. Bad policies destroy people's lives, not just in America, but in the places that Joe Biden touches with those bad policies. And again, it's the folks that are coming up through Mexico to our southern border. Lives are destroyed. You have the people's lives in Afghanistan. I mean, it's tragic what's happening to women and children

in Afghanistan. But again, the devastation from the bad policies in lives around the world from Joe Biden are horrific. And again, you've talked about the border for a long time, Rachel, and not just what it's doing with the drug flow and the human trafficking and the massive amounts of people who are coming in, flooding schools and hospitals. The social service system is, I mean, the weight of it is so large and states and communities are bearing the brunt of it. But there's another component, which I'm so grateful that we're going to have Bill Malusian come on and talk about this, but what's actually happening in Mexico. And your point has always been when you, when you partner, which is in essence what the Biden administration is doing,

they're partnering with the drug cartels in Mexico and the cartels are making massive amounts of So you have enriched the cartels to a degree that we never could have imagined. And when they have that much money, which means that much more power, they're a bigger threat to the Mexican government. And how does that then destabilize the region? And what are the consequences of that? Which is why I'm so grateful we're going to have, I mean, Bill Malusian has been amazing, the reporting that he gives us on the southern border and reporting that no one else is willing to do. But Bill does it. I think there's no better guest to talk about this topic than Bill. Yeah. First of all, I got to meet Bill Malusian in person when I went to Eagle Pass myself. The border is a problem because it is enriching the cartels. And as I said, I've been saying this for a long time. The cartels are evil. I mean, talk about, I mean, some of the most evil things you can ever imagine. Unspeakable things happen because of these cartels and the kind of fear that they want to instill in the population in Mexico and even into our country. And obviously with so many of these poor people who want to come across our border

and have to entrust their lives, end up entrusting their little kids in the hands of these evil cartels. And it's scary stuff. And they are richer than ever. And I told you, Sean, this is going to destabilize Mexico. And we're starting to see some of the signs.

Tijuana, there was, you know, fires, some sort of curfew that was not enforced by the Mexican military. But turns out it was enforced by the cartels. The cartels are running the place. And even before this, there are other towns in Mexico where if you are on the inside and you are paying attention to Mexican politics, there are towns that are run by cartels. They keep the peace. And the people say, you know what, we'd rather have the cartels run it and keep the peace than have the violence.

Is that what we want on our southern border? I mean, Tijuana right across the border from the United States. So close to San Diego. So close. And to think that the cartels, because I saw the pictures and you said, look, you made the point. You saw the pictures of Tijuana in broad daylight and it's a relatively big city. You have no one on the streets, no cars going down the roadway, no people walking on the street. When the cartel put out the curfew, everyone abides by it because they know if you don't, the consequences of violating a rule of the cartel is not just death, but torture.

And so no one violates it. And again, you don't have any law enforcement. You don't have any government agency. You don't have the Mexican military that can step in and go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Tijuana is not run by the cartels. This is a Mexican city right next to America. We run. We run Tijuana is not run by the cartels. This is a Mexican city right next to America. We run. We run Tijuana, but there's no pushback.

You know, Sean, my trip to Eagle Pass where I met Bill Malujan was one of the most shocking because I thought I was going to see people sneaking across the border. But that's not what happened at all. The cartels were 100% in charge. So you had the Rio

Grand River and there I was on one side, on the Mexican side, I saw the Mexican military. On the other side, I saw our National Guard. I saw our Texas TPS. I saw our Border Patrol. And people just cross when the cartels give them permission. Our people are helpless. Our people aren't going to stop them. And the military isn't going to interfere with the cartel. That's a really weird situation to be in. And again, I'm concerned about what happens to the children, especially in the women who come across. We know that over, you know, they estimate about 30 to 35% of all the women who come across and girls will be raped. That's why they load even the little girls up on birth control pills before they take this journey. And they estimate about 20% of boys

get sexually assaulted along the journey as well. So this is a very, very dangerous, treacherous journey and one that is greatly enriching the cartels. You know, I'm just going to, I don't know the answer to this, but at one point, I know Texas is thinking about this, but what happens with regard to Texas exerting itself and saying, you know what, the federal government is not going to stop the invasion at the southern border. We're going to send more resources and we're actually going to stop it. We can't, we can't let the federal government. They've tried to do stuff, Sean. I mean, they've even tried to buy the walls that Biden refuses to put up. By the way, we had to pay out the companies.

So we paid for the walls and we had to pay the billions of dollars to like, or millions of dollars to not work on the wall. And Texas said, okay, if you don't want it, they're just rusting. I saw them rusting on the ground. Let us buy them. And they said, no. You know what's interesting? Because that could secure the border. They don't want that.

Right. And by the way, the piles and piles of rusted wall that they don't want to put up lay right next to a fortified wall, which is the center where they process people after. It's just so it's it's it's it's it's it brings us back to the old lie of Democrats. Walls don't work. You don't build a wall that won't's. It brings us back to the old lie of Democrats. Walls don't work. You don't build a wall that won't work. And when they want to protect something, everyone goes back hundreds and hundreds of years. We build walls. Yeah, there's a wall around Barack Obama's house, around Joe Biden's house.

That's right. Wall around the White House. Wall around the Vatican. By the way, the Pope also calling for open, open borders, but he has a wall around his, his. And the problem with this, Rachel, too, is, is the lack of vetting. We don't know who's coming in. There's too many people to vet. And so when you have this massive flow of people, it's not organized in any way that can let the U.S. government know, are these good people that

want to come and work, that are going to be productive, that have skill sets, that aren't terrorists, that don't want to do us harm, They're not members of a terror group. We don't know those things because there's just too many people coming in. We're getting flooded with too much. And therefore, because we don't know, we accept massive risk of people who come in without verification. Interesting hearing Rob O'Neill say, as a SEAL Team 6 operator, saying, absolutely, if I had to put myself in the shoes of our enemies, the southern border is where I would choose. And it's easy. I mean, to think of what the terrorists on 9-11 had to go through to get into the country and get the training and move freely through the U.S. to get into the country and get the training and move freely through the U.S.

So much easier today by just coming across the southern border, trying to, if you're on a list, be deceptive on who you are and where you came from, get into the country, and all of a sudden you're on an airplane or a bus to some other community in the U.S. where you can then start to operate from to attack the country. And we have not seen the kind of havoc this is going to create, the kind of risk it's going to create, the kind of lives that can be lost because of folks who are coming across the southern border without our knowledge of who they are. We'll have more of this conversation after this. Upper Canada College inspires boys from senior kindergarten to year 12 to find their passions and realize their potential.

An IB World School, UCC offers a supportive environment, cutting-edge facilities, and a best-in-Canada financial assistance program. UCC, a place where tradition, excellence, and innovation meet. Learn more about all that UCC has to offer at ucc.on.ca. All right, so let's not waste any more time, Sean. Let's bring Bill Malugin, who deserves an Emmy, you and I both agree, for the work he's been doing at the border. Bill, we're so glad to have you. No one knows more about what's going on there because you haven't stopped reporting on this beat.

And one of the things that I've been really concerned about as I see these these Biden policies and all the people coming across the border isn't just what's happening to our country, but what's happening in Mexico. see what I had feared, which is that the cartels are becoming so powerful that they are taking over Mexico and that this would be destabilizing for Mexico and the danger of having a country that is, you know, destabilized and run by evil cartels right in our backyard. What are you seeing on the border right now? And what has changed in terms of the cartels specifically since you first started reporting from the border? Yeah, absolutely. Look, it's the worst kept secret out here that the cartels essentially run Mexico. And we've seen evidence of that throughout our coverage. I mean, we were out here in the Rio Grande Valley one night. We were in Roma and we saw a cartel shooting tracers from an M240 machine gun into the United States above a National Guard

post. Texas DPS has shared us helicopter video of cartel guys pointing AK-47s at their helicopters from the Mexican side. We've seen Mexican cartel members standing on the Mexican side of the Rio Grande taunting National Guard soldiers from Texas and pretending that they're going to shoot at them. And then now we're hearing all this news about all these cartel gunfights and all the violence happening in Baja, California, as well as Juarez. They are bold. They don't care. They are violent. It doesn't matter who gets in their way, especially when it comes to their human smuggling operations here at the border.

I can't tell you how many times we've seen them just leave people behind to die in the elements or to drown in the river. They don't care. All they care about is their money and we saw that highlighted um you know weeks ago when that trailer in san antonio was found with what was it 53 people dead inside of it and those cars i don't know if you guys saw the reporting the cartel members the smugglers before they left they sprinkled steak seasoning on some of the corpses to try to hide the smell they didn't care about those people that all they cared about was the money they got, and they just abandoned them to essentially be baked to death in an oven. You know, Bill, it makes sense that the U.S. government has,

in essence, through its policy, been enriching the cartels. We see that. But on the Mexican government side, do you see them trying to do anything to get the cartels under control? From what we can see, no, not really. But again, we're not obviously in the big cartel gunfight areas. I can tell you they are absolutely assisting with the cartels human smuggling efforts because what happens is when these migrants from Venezuela, Colombia, Nicaragua, Cuba, wherever they're coming from, once they get into Mexico, most of them are getting into Mexico illegally at first. And what the Mexicans are doing is they are giving the migrants these 15 to 30 day temporary humanitarian visas, which allow the migrants to move freely throughout Mexico legally. Well, what do they do? They

immediately go north to the border with the United States. The Mexicans know this. And then they cross illegally into the U.S. And all over the riverbank here where I am in Eagle Pass are these 30-day visas, which the migrants just discard on the U.S. side of the river as soon as they cross over because they don't need it anymore. And it was never about having a humanitarian visa in Mexico. Their target goal was always the United States. And Mexico makes it easier for them by allowing them to legally travel north through their country. Of course, because they don't want them to stay in Mexico. They're basically, as you're saying, coordinating with the cartels implicitly, explicitly to move them along out of Mexico and over to our side. And to be quite frank with you, our government is in essence,

implicitly or explicitly coordinating with the cartels because we basically do the third, the last leg of the journey by flying them taxpayer funded to wherever they want to go, or if they did get a bus or a flight. We're also working with the cartels. The cartels are promising a service, right, Bill? That's exactly right. The cartels are able to advertise to prospective customers, the migrants that, hey, we'll get you into the United States. And once you're there, you've got our word. You know, the U.S. government is going to take you wherever you want. So give us your child. Give us a few thousand dollars. Give us your child. We'll get them across the border into the U.S. And then the Americans will reunite that child with you or with your family in the U.S. And that's exactly what the U.S.

government is doing. So, Bill, I look at on the political side, you hear a lot of Democrats and those who are not just elected leaders, but, you know, those who advocate Democrat policies. They want open borders. Right. So as you're down on the border and you're reporting on the consequences of open border, do you get participation with the federal government? Are they saying, listen, Bill Malusian, come on in, you need to have a firsthand view of what's happening at the southern border. We want America to see what's happening. Bring your cameras in, talk to people, report on this, because we're so proud of what's happening at the southern border. No, trying to get anything from this federal government is like drawing water from a rock. They've ignored every Freedom of Information Act request I've submitted since last year, especially ICE. CBP has honored a few of them.

We can't get any interviews with any of the Border Patrol sector chiefs. We can't get any ride-alongs or ebbeds. It's just this administration. They will not allow us to have any exposure to border agents. And what's wild is, you know, I'm looking at Trey Yink's live shots from Kabul, and he's embedded with the Taliban. It's apparently easier to get media access with the Taliban than it is with U.S. Border Patrol under the Biden administration. Oh, so sad. So true. I saw it firsthand. I saw you when I was in Eagle Pass, and then I was in Uvalde. There is a child detention center. I wanted to go in and see, you know, what's that like for those children? We American citizens ought to know we're paying for that facility.

It's guarded as if it were like a penitentiary prison. I mean, you can't see above the barbed wire and everything they have going on. And the mayor of Uvalde said he's not allowed in there. He said that he had people, you know, really nice, you know, volunteers from churches saying, we want to help those kids. We want to read to them, offer clothes or toys. Nobody knows what goes on there. It's the biggest mystery, not even in their own hometown. I want to ask you, Bill, what is the biggest change? What is the most shocking thing you've seen since you've been on this beat? What is the biggest change you've seen since you've been on this beat? So the most shocking thing is going to be a tie between two things. Number one would be obviously the 15,000 Haitians who

were under the bridge in Del Rio last summer. That will stand out in my career for the rest of my life. The second thing is more of an upsetting thing. You know, we've seen people drown and that we've seen bodies and stuff. But last October, we were in the Rio Grande Valley. We were in La Jolla and we came across a scene where there's a lot of border patrol. There were a couple ambulances. There were some local police migrants all over the place. And this time, as we were approaching, border patrol was really antsy with us about not letting us get our cameras close.

And they seemed kind of flustered and we kind of knew something was up. So we stayed back. We were respectful about it. We saw medics sitting with two little girls on the ground. You know, we stayed back and we later asked what happened. And it turned out those were five and six year old sisters who had both just been sexually assaulted and raped by a coyote before being brought across into the United States. And that is not an isolated incident. It happens very frequently. There are things called rape trees on the U.S. side of the border, which is where coyotes and smugglers will rape girls and women

and then hang their undergarments on a tree as a trophy and a taunt to law enforcement. Border Patrol agents have shown us photos of these before. So there are some very upsetting things that happen down here that sometimes, honestly, we can't even really put on the air. And that our government is complicit in. You know, Bill, it's true evilness. And so, again, I think that when you're going to have a policy like this, the administration should cooperate. All Americans should be able to see the consequences of open borders in the humanitarian crisis that it causes.

But we see you. We watch Fox News. We get to see your reporting. As you're down there as a news reporter, are you coming into contact with people from different magazines and news outlets that are also carving the border with you? Is this like MSNBC, NBC, ABC? New York Times? None of the major networks for the most part i will see people from news nation from the daily caller from daily wire i will every now and then

see a photographer from the new york times um but when it comes to the big three networks as well as the other cable networks no it's it's a ghost town we're essentially the only ones out here the only time the only time in recent memory i can remember the other stations being down here is when the 15,000 Haitians were at the bridge in Del Rio, and then when Kevin McCarthy was out here in Eagle Pass because they all wanted to ask him about the leaked tape about Trump. They weren't here for the border. I imagine people there when there was the allegations of horse whipping.

They probably came down for that as well but um yeah you know that was yeah that was that was during the Haitians yeah so yes they were here for that yeah you know it's it's it's shameful um that you don't have more media outlets curious about what what happens there and again it seems like there's this overall plan that um that Democrats have and the media has joined them in to say, listen, we don't want to tell the story. We don't want people to know what's happening here. We want to implement the policy, but we want to do it under the cover of darkness. We don't want the American people to know.

Which is why those flights go out at like four in the morning and three in the morning and they land in these, you know, mayors don't know, governors don't know when they're coming. Bill, can I add? Mayors don't know. Governors don't know when they're coming. Bill, can I add? So if you were to, and again, this is maybe not the best reporter question for you, but as you talk to people, do they, the people that are trying to secure the border, are trying to help the victims of this migration? You mean the law enforcement? Right. Do they talk about if we could just do this?

I mean, are there a couple policy ideas that people have that would actually help, you know, with with the crisis at the southern border. Yeah, they say you have to take the pull factors away right now. Everybody who shows up here believes they're going to be released into the United States. And many of them are correct. That's why you see so many of them willingly turning themselves into border patrol. They know they're not going to be expelled via Title 42. They know they're not going to be deported. What did President Biden say on the campaign trail when he was a candidate during debate? If I'm president, we should surge the border. We should surge the border. Well, that's what's happening now. And

people are coming here because they believe under Joe Biden, they've got a much better chance of being released into the United States. And they do. Hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds of thousands have already been released into the country. Where I am in Eagle Pass, very few are being expelled via Title 42, only about 20% of what comes across. That's because most are Venezuelans, Cubans, and Nicaraguans, and the Mexicans won't take those demographics back, and neither will their home country. So we have to release them into the U.S., and they know that. That is why they come here in these huge numbers, and that is why they turn themselves into Border Patrol. And they will come up to us if they can't find border patrol and say, donde esta la migra?

Where's border patrol? Can you call them for us? They have no fear about being apprehended because they know they're just going to be released. You know, when I was there, when you were there, I noticed that there was like these signs right across the border that was like this way, you know, like follow the path this way. I think that's what it says. Yeah. And I was like this way you know like it followed follow the path this way i think it's what it says yeah and i was like who put this here and then one of the law enforcement local law enforcement said border patrol um so border patrol is putting up um signs directing the migrants on where to go um i didn't see any you, stopping of anyone crossing the border. In fact, I witnessed myself, a Border Patrol agent, lower the barbed wire so they could get across. So they're under instructions to simply process.

There is no enforcement as far as I could see when I was there. Bill, I think you're doing some of the most amazing work. I think you deserve an Emmy, but it's kind of cheating because no one else wants to be there but you. But you're doing the work. I think you deserve an Emmy, but it's kind of cheating because no one else wants to be there but you. But you're doing the work. You're the only one giving us a bird's eye, front seat view to what's happening. You do it in a really interesting, honest, credible way. I know everyone at Fox News feels like we're lucky to have you reporting for us. I know our viewers and definitely our listeners on this podcast care about what's going on at the border. It's having massive implications,

not just for our cities and our towns here in the United States, but as you can see, I think we're on the verge of a major national security problem because we're seeing Mexico succumb to the power of the cartel and we may have a destabilized country right on our border. So, Bill, thanks for joining us. I know how busy you are, and I really appreciate you joining the kitchen table. Thanks for having me, guys.

Big fans of both of you. We're very grateful, Bill. Thank you so much. And I, too, appreciate the reporting. Great interview. That's what reporting should look like. It is. And, again, I think these are the stories that we hear. And it's nice to get, you know, he's on for a minute, you know, minute and a half, but it's nice to sit down with him for 10 minutes, 15 minutes and hear what's really happening. And it's got to be frustrating for him. You want to bring the story to people, but you would hope that other people, other news outlets would be on the border assisting, helping.

helping and it's got to be frustrating too to be there and go you know what this could stop we could end this and it's not a border wall it's stop the poll stop telling people that they can come here they will he said it he said let's surge the border you know what the most interesting part of this podcast was for me sean when he he was jealous of the access that the daliban gave trade compared to what our government, that comment alone says everything you need to know about this border crisis. The lack of transparency is worse than the transparency of the Taliban. That is all you need to know about what's going on. If they are that guarded about what's going on, as you said, Sean, under the cover of

darkness, there's a reason they don't want you to see what's going on. So what does Joe Biden have to hide more than the Taliban has to hide in Afghanistan is the question. And frankly, he probably does have more to hide. There's more tragedy, more despair, more drugs, more sexual assaults, more human trafficking, probably at the southern border than is happening in Afghanistan. And again, Joe Biden doesn't want that to be exposed. He wants to hide it, which is why you don't have reporters down there and which which is why they won't give Bill Malusian access to Border Patrol agents. They won't let him into the facility that you talked about where kids are being processed

and held before they're shipped out across the country, maybe to an aunt or an uncle or. Or even that's terrible story of what he said he witnessed when he came upon our brave border patrols, who are, by the way, the greatest humanitarian force in the Western Hemisphere, caring for little girls who are raped coming across the border. Well, interesting interview, Sean. It's great to be at the kitchen table. We'll have to have everyone back again next week. Yes, thanks for joining us. If you like our podcast,

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