From the Kitchen Table: The Duffys - The Battle Plan To Save Your Child From Wicked Culture

Episode Date: March 30, 2023

On this episode, Sean and Rachel are joined by the author of the new book The Parents Battle Plan: Warfare Strategies To Win Back Your Prodigal, Laine Lawson Craft, as she discusses the inspiration behind writing the book, and the power that God has that can help guide your children through the toughest challenges.     Later, they are joined by their daughter, Evita Duffy-Alfonso as they discuss the Chinese influence that is spreading through TikTok, and an online campaign to stop the Willow drilling project that Evita feels is propaganda being spread by the Chinese Communist Party to weaken American energy production.   Follow Sean and Rachel on Twitter: @SeanDuffyWI & @RCamposDuffy   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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BetMGM.com for terms and conditions. Must be 19 years of age or older to wager. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Hey everyone, welcome to From the Kitchen Table. I'm Sean Duffy along with my partner for the podcast, Rachel Campos Duffy.

I am so happy to be here this morning and boy, we have a great guest this morning. Her name is Lane Lawson-Craft and she wrote a book I think every parent needs to take a look at it's called the battle plan warfare strategies to win back your prodigal I mean boy every parent has had this issue Lane we're going to bring you right in because first of all welcome good morning Good morning. Good morning. Thank you so much. So, I mean, just the title alone, like it should be handed out like as soon as you have a baby. Like, you know, just here, you're going to need this. So tell me what inspired you to write the book. I know a little bit of the story, but our listeners don't.

So lay out why you thought the world needed this book and your wisdom from it. Yes. Well, you know, the critical urgent message is our children are under attack, Rachel. And so many people are trying to answer this with a secular, worldly answer. So my three children, I was at the pinnacle of what I thought God created me to be. I was publishing a national magazine. It was Faith Faith. Do you just keep going, Lane? Pretend like this was like 10, 15 years ago

when you had little ones and you were trying to do a podcast. Lane, you're actually at our kitchen table and Valentina's home for... You're really at the kitchen table. Here's what happened. She's on spring break. And she's on spring break. And she's on spring break. So here we go, Lynn. We love it.

That's the real, y'all, that's the whole point. This is real life. I mean, we're living it. And it's not something you read about or study about. I mean, we're living it. We are trying to be lightbearers and trying to raise kids with values and morals. And somewhere, you know, I know personally in my life, somewhere between the dreams of what I wanted my young children to be and what they were doing in their teen and young adult years were not lining up. So my three children were prodigals. All three of them had different issues.

My eldest son was into drugs and alcohol and womanizing. He believes that he was 12 or 13 when he was introduced to porn, and he didn't know what to do with it. And he feels that was the game. And, Lane, that age is getting lower. I believe, and I want to do a podcast because I think one of, you talk about this spiritual battle on our kids. I believe pornography might just be the biggest one. And that the average age that a child is first introduced to pornography is now 10 years old. Yes.

And you thought, no. And some studies say seven that they see the first dirty picture off a mom and dad's phone at seven. So this is critical, y'all. This is a gate that the enemy opens very early. And we all know the studies. Once you're into those visuals, they're very difficult to ever erase from the brain, if ever. So that was Stephen. So he believes that was the gate that really took him into a 15 year spiral and then Lawson was into like the music concerts and you go and you do drugs and you you know do all the groovy stuff and drink and all of that and then my daughter Kaylee was a senior and she had problems with not fitting in she was an. She didn't feel like she was as pretty as the

girls or as popular. She had a breakup with a boy. And really, y'all, I had no idea how dark her depression was, but she overcame depression. And I can share those stories of how God literally touched each one of those children. And now they're all whole and free. It's amazing. Oh, my goodness. Lane, you're telling stories of your children. Are they okay all whole and free it's amazing oh my goodness lane do you're telling stories of your children um are they okay with that they're like listen you can tell our story because there's a happy ending because my our kids might be like whoa mom and dad no no no no too much information yes and matter of fact parent compass television filmed us in dallas all three of my children had hours of their video of their testimonies.

And it's in a format that I'm going to offer to the public because it's that important. I mean, they were real. They talked about where they were enticed and how they were lured. Kaylee even said at her lowest point, the enemy was telling her that life would be better without her. Come on, y'all. So tell us about their journey how did I mean and tell it tell us their journey and and your role in it yeah because I have to imagine just just meeting here for the first time I have to believe that you had a Christian home with stability and all the things

all the things that they tell us that we need to do to raise good kids. And yet, um, they each had, you know, wandered off into this secular world and, and that's the biggest hope of grace I can give a parent today. That's struggling with the way we're kid today. Listen again, I was at the pinnacle. I was producing this magazine. It was in every bookstore in America and Canada with famous people like Harris Faulkner and people like that where they shared where faith mattered in their lives. And yet my three children were in the throes and in the battles that I could not comprehend. So what I'm saying is you can have this attitude, you live right, you do right, and everything comes out right, but that's not a truth. That is a lie.

you live right, you do right, and everything comes out right, but that's not a truth. That is a lie. You know, I think I wanted to just commend y'all because it's a sacrifice to continue to live in the light and to do good things when the enemy is out to get us because he doesn't want us. He wants us to fail. And I think our children are targets. And I think it's important. What you point out is nothing's perfect, right? No one's life is perfect. No one's kids are perfect. And to share your story of the upbringing, but the kids I think is really important. So what lessons do you have for parents who are going through a child again every i think every kid is wayward right i think i was wait we're all we're all going through our 20s but there's levels of waywardness i mean you have a child who's really

kind of stepped off the beaten track and you need to get them home yeah what advice do you have well and again we've got to remind ourselves too that technology today has made it a click away you're a click away from sending a dirty picture you're a click away from sending a dirty picture. You're a click away from getting a dirty picture. You're a click away from a drug deal that might have fentanyl in it. You're a click away from bullying. So parents are really under assault as well because there have never been such challenges as parents. My mom will tell me, Lane, I do not envy you. I thought my job was hard. Your job, because of the device, exactly what you said, is so much harder.

So what's your advice on the device? First of all, we give it to them too early. You know, we look around in a restaurant and we've got two and three-year-olds playing with mom and dad's phones. I think we really need to see that that is a tool of the enemy. If we look at it that way, it kind of leads me to where I was going to say, where can I help parents today? Well, when I was looking back at the darkness my kids were in and I see now their victory, God kind of lined up some bullet points for me. And one of the very first things I want a parent to hear is you're not in war with your kid. You're in war with the enemy that's out to seek, kill, and destroy your child.

Say that one more time, Lane, because that, to me, when I, you know, look through this book, it is, it's the most important message. Say it one more time because I think parents need to hear it again. So listen, parents, no matter how bad it is at home, no matter how many times your kid has disappointed you, listen, you're not in war with them. You're in war with the enemy that is trying to seek, kill, and destroy them. And what I mean by that is lure them into that pill they've never done before,

and it might be their only pill and their last pill. It might be that they are lured like my daughter and are told, you're not pretty, you're not good enough, and makes them feel unworthy. Those are the ways to seek, kill, and destroy our children today. You know, Elaine, as you talk about the kids in the home that you raised your children in, and then they go wayward, I think it's easier to come home when you're raised in a good home. And not every child is raised with the values that you raised your kids with or the values we try to raise our kids with. And I think it must be that much harder if you get tempted away.

You don't really have this foundation that your parents gave you to grasp back onto and get back on the raft. And I think that's a real challenge for so many kids out there as we've seen new studies where religion in America has fallen by 40% in the last 25 years. I mean, it's catastrophic because I think it's that much harder, again, to come back home, to get your life back right when you don't have that foundational footing. There's no more. Right. Well, I was going to say the foundation of our country, of what God has instructed us, is family. And the enemy first destroyed the family. And that's what he's doing. So these kids have no anchor.

They don't have a mom and dad at home. They're not going to church. They don't have the scriptures in their house. So, yes, we must have empathy and say, wow, we've got to be there for these kids. That's why this book is so important. We need to have parents have a revelation. This is a spiritual battle. There are things they can do to war for their children in the spirit because it's not all left in the worldly way.

You know? Yeah, that's such a great point. So, okay, so first, this is what I'm gathering. I'm trying to imagine, and by the way, we've had trouble with our kids as well. We had a prodigal that has come back around another sibling who is lost let's say it's drugs right because drugs can really change someone's personality and make you feel like you can't reach that person and you know that as well as anyone so the first thing you said was recognize that you're not at war with this child you're at war with the devil I'm with you all the way so now how do you reach this kid

who's who feels like you don't even know them anymore or they don't know you anymore because they're in this different world well first and foremost after we realize we're in war we've got to partner with god so if you're a sibling start praying for your your your brother or sister if you're a parent if you're not praying for your kid i offer who is so i really believe prayer is because you know only god can touch our hearts i mean we can be the hands and feet and orchestrate it but really ultimately it comes to god and so if you're if you're a parent or a sibling right now and you have a sibling that's on drugs or a child that's on drugs, the first thing you want to do is you want to go to them and tell them how much you love them.

And, you know, that's kind of counterproductive to yourself. You know, you don't want to go, oh, I love you. You want to beat them. You don't feel like you're enabling them, right? Or that you're in some way endorsing this lifestyle. Correct. So how do you do that in a way that you don't feel that way? Well, I mean, I talk about evicting enablement in the book.

You know, I tell parents, let's start with, are we enabling it by money? I mean, are we still giving them money when we know they're clearly living outside of our faith and values? A lot of parents do. I was guilty. I don't know. In the book, I tell about how long we had Stephen set up, and we didn't realize we were setting him up for self-destruction. Another way we do it is we rescue them. I mean, I was the first mom to rescue that kid when I really should have let them pay the consequences.

Look, these are hard things. But listen, if we don't help them build these boundaries, they're going to eventually live alone with or without you and your endorsements. You better help them make these clear decisions and see consequences to kind of, I look like it as a bowling alley. I'm not a very good bowler. And I put those guards up when I'm trying to practice. And we need to be the guards for these children. We need to be the bumper rails. We don't need to be the rescue. You know, we can't do that. So, Lane, it seems like you're talking about the old adage of tough love, right? Still loving them, but not enabling them.

And that's, I mean, tough love. And I got to tell you what, that's really hard as a parent because we've rescued them, you know, from the time they were born. We've taken care of them. We've nurtured them. We've propped them, you know. And then you get to this place where the bad decisions happen. And it's really hard for a parent to change gears and go, you know what?

Now the propping, now the support is actually damaging them, and I as a parent have to change gears, which is changing from the whole history that I've had with this child. That's got to be hard for a parent. It is hard, but, you know, we all know that we never make changes when we're comfortable. And I was making my teens in their wayward years too comfortable. And that's huge. If you just get that nugget today, you know, they're going to tell you they hate you and they're angry at you. They're going to do that. But that should just almost be affirmation. Look, we want to be the catalyst for change. We are their coaches. Once we get adults 18 above, 16, 18, we become their mentors and their coaches.

We've had two decades of being their parents. Now we help them, you know, walk through the decision, see the consequences, and quit enabling. You know, Lynn, I always think about those, and I mentioned this kind of earlier, but the kids that don't have a parent like you, and it's that much harder. But I just, I mean, over the course of human history, there are certain things that work in the human heart, in the human life. And one of them is having faith, going to church. And if you're having these struggles in your life, on a Sunday, open the door to a church and go in spend an hour You don't know how that one act can can change the course of your life But it's taking control of your life and saying maybe I'm gonna try something because the drugs never make people happy

The poor knows doesn't make people happy the sex doesn't make people happy Phone addiction doesn't make people happy but actually look at happy people they go to church church. So actually, maybe try it out. If you're listening and you're single and you're having trouble, go on Sunday or go to a daily mass. Step in to the church and see how that might touch you and change your life. So true. And I think that's for the parents, too. And the thing that really, that's what really was my passion behind this book was to say, listen, God loves you. He's with you. He's got a plan and a purpose. And as parents, we are the stewards. I like to say that God was the first prodigal father. Remember he set up Adam and Eve. He gave them a garden. He gave them everything they needed and said, just don't do this one thing. And what did they do?

So he knows the pain. He knows what it's like. So, again, if we don't partner with God, people ask me, can you do this without God? My answer would be no. Right. Because I believe with everything in me that the power of God, when we partner with him, it's unbelievable and incredible. Yeah. I would say in our own experience that, you know, we try to do tough love and we try to do all kinds of stuff, but I would say when things turned around, there was not one action, one conversation, one anything. It just

happened. And I literally felt like it was just an answer to, you know, several years of prayer. And it happens when you don't even expect it's going to happen. Is that right? Is that, was that your experience with the three of yours? Absolutely. And I'd like to add to that, Rachel. My eldest son was at the darkest pit of hell. He was in the back of an Uber driver's car, and he was high on cocaine. And he had God come down from heaven through this man's prayer in the Uber driver, you know, in the car.

And my son was forever changed. So I think a lot of parents also think, oh, my kids have got to clean up, do this, do this, do this. Listen, God never quits pursuing us, and he'll never leave us in our weakness. Tell us a little bit more about that experience in the Uber, because I'm fascinated by it. It is fascinating. I mean, you know, because we did have roots in faith, and I believe our marriage was resurrected 20 years ago, and we were very public. We have a book. We were so blessed with the Phil and Miss Kay and the Duck Dynasty people endorsing it at all, but we had a resurrected marriage, and so that was when God pulled me out of the marketplace and began a message of hope for people.

And so my son knew there was a power of God, a resurrection power of God. So when this Uber driver picked him up, he was at a bar. And like I said, he was high on cocaine. He was going to another place. And the Uber driver says, I feel like the Lord is telling me to pray for you. Wow. Even, you know, I said, okay. And he started praying. And Stephen said, the presence of God, Rachel was so heavy. It pushed him down to the floorboard. He was weeping, crying, begging the man, please quit praying because he could barely breathe. The presence of God was so heavy.

Please quit praying because he could barely breathe. The presence of God was so heavy. He knew that was God. He knew that he was way wayward, you know, and God yet still touched him profoundly that night. Wow. Again, another example of, I mean, you weren't in contact with that Uber driver. I'm sure you would have liked to have told him to do that. I had him for dinner. You did?

I really. So we had him. We called him, Stephen. He actually exchanged numbers with Stephen. Unbelievable. And so we said, Stephen, invite him to dinner. So my whole family had him over and he ate dinner with us. That's amazing.

Unbelievable. Well, I want to thank him. I mean, y'all, 15 years. 15 years. Lots of trouble. Many times betrayed. Many times I thought he had it together and he failed. I mean, I'm telling you, it was incredible.

Wow. Okay, so you also talked a little bit in the book about the, you were talking about the difference between joy and happiness. There are all these other virtues that you think we need to think about and incorporate into our life to help in this process. Well, yes. And again, you can't have these things outside of God, really. I mean, that's where it's all found. What the biggest thing, it was the fruits of the spirit. You know, how do you have peace when you're in a battle with your kid every day? You know, how do you love them when you're in a battle with your kid every day? You know, how do you love them when they're unlovable? And so I just kind of go through the principles of the fruits of the Spirit. And the biggest one is self-control. It's the last

fruit of the Spirit, but it's essential. I mean, if we don't have self-control, and what I mean by that, that is be intentional with God. Watch how we live. You know, if we don't do those things, then how can we expect the outcome of heaven? You also talked about taking care of yourself. You know, your kid's life is falling apart. But if you fall apart, too, you're not going to be there to help. Right. And I don't know, Rachel, if you kind of, I kind of wanted to retreat. I mean, I was just kind of feeling defeated as a mother.

I had a lot of shame. Like, what am I doing wrong? What is wrong with me? You know, I kind of isolated myself. I kind of retracted from communities and such. So, yes, the first thing I know, we must take care of ourselves because in any, you know, in any war, the soldiers need to stand strong. And so I encourage you, don't let it defeat you. So I talk about find things you enjoy. Don't let the kids steal your life too and things like that. I really encourage them to find community, maybe find a church as Sean suggested. If you're not going to church. I really hope one

day, guys, that there'll be warfare parenting small groups, similar to Celebrate Recovery. That's what my hope and dream is through this book, is that parents of faith will have a safe place to come and go. They came in drunk last night. Can we pray together? Can y'all help me? Can you stand in the gap with me and make warrior parents through warfare parenting? I really hope God will do that. home and God made them all wildly, wildly different. And you don't know, um, kind of what issues and what struggles those kids will have. And maybe some of it's your fault as a parent, maybe it's not your fault as a parent, but it's hard. Parenting is hard. And for us to, you know, kind of present, like everything is always perfect as parents. It's not. And to be able to talk about it, um, and it and share it, I think makes it a lot easier.

And when you recognize it, like you have to go, hey, you know what? I'm going to share the story of the struggle I had as a parent. I thought I did a good job. I think I did a good job, but I had some wayward kids. And you know what? I didn't give up and they found their way home. I think that story is so important because so many parents deal with different levels of aversion that you've shared with us today and you share in your book. And, Lane, also, you know, to piggyback on what Sean said, to realize that, you know, nothing is new under the sun. I mean, the story of the prodigal son is as old as time. I mean, like, this story resonates with every parent. I mean, like this story resonates with every parent.

And so talk to me about that scripture, you know, that story in the Bible, because that really is sort of the heart of what you're talking about. There's so many lessons in that story for everybody in the family. The son, the son who was wayward, this the son who was faithful, the father, the servants. I mean, there's so much going on in that story. There is. And, you know, you're right, Rachel. There's never been an urgency to this message of hope because, again, parents are struggling. They're full of fear.

They're discouraged. I mean, it's just tragic. So I thought one of the coolest things about the prodigal story that I'd never seen until recently was that the father was wealthy. He had every means to go get that kid. But he had what we need to take away from that trust in God, a relationship with God. He was expectant that that kid would turn around to the faith and values that they were raised with. So I think that the more important part kind of goes back to that enablement. You know, are we enabling our kids? You know, he let his kid go eat out of a pig's pen.

So, you know, that's pretty low. That's pretty low. So, and I also understand the brother, you know, I think many of us kind of get that spirit. Oh, we're living right, doing right, you know, and yet God favors that person or God did this for them and not me. We got to be careful because remember what Sean, you said, nine kids, nine unique individuals, all handled by God. You know, kids, nine unique individuals, all handled by God. You know, they each have a purpose. That's what I need a parent to hear today too. Listen, all of our kids are in a chapter of their story. Don't get defeated in this chapter. God has a unique purpose and plan for each one of us.

So he's going to get it done. We just got to help and partner and pray and realize we have got to help them maneuver because the enemy knows his time is running out. And I believe with everything in me that something's going to shift in this country. We have got to get back to morals and that God made men and women and God created family. We've got to get back to these basics. Lane, it's a message that we talk about all the time, but people of faith are having babies. People that seem to not have faith generally aren't having babies. Conservatives have babies. Liberals don't. And so it's so important to fortify your children because to your point the enemy wants to take your child from you the the forces out there to

separate the child from the family from the family's values um is so strong and so powerful but you are the first teacher you are the best teacher the most important teacher to your child and if you cede that authority to the culture, you're going to lose, right? But you have to grab it and hold them and teach them and instruct them. And if we do that, to your point, I think the future can be very bright. But if we don't, as parents, start to realize the most control we have on the future of humanity and our country and our culture is us is our family I mean Sean always says if you want to save America just save your family

I mean start right there and that's what's so important about your message because you were talking about all this other stuff you were doing I mean I we have the same thing we have big lives and a lot going on nothing is more important than this family. And I believe revival in this country will start through the family. And I pray that this book will be a catalyst for that. You know, we were talking about authority and all of that, too, y'all. Listen, the problem today that I see that's urgent, too, is the bad decisions. You know, we all made wrong decisions as teens. Amen.

I mean, I made some real choices as a teen, stupid choices. Now, these choices can be deadly. Like I said, it could be a drug that has fentanyl in it. It could be that they get their second DUI and they were proposed to be a doctor, but they can't get in med school. So it's not, you know, it's, it's, it's a physical and spiritual battle. Yeah. So truly so true. Let's the, the, the book is the parents battle plan warfare strategies to win back your prodigal. That's it. Right. Lane. I think that, you know,

don't wait till something goes wrong to get this book. Um, like I said, I think everyone should get this book right when the baby pops out because we're all going to face it on some level. You know, some are bigger problems, but there are smaller problems. We all have to deal with this understanding the child is on loan from God. If we want to help the child, we better partner with God. And I think also recognizing that the devil is real, that there are demonic and horrible, evil spiritual powers within our culture trying to separate the child from the family, from the family's values. I mean, you have to be asleep to not see that that's happening now. And it truly is. This book, I think, is going to provide people with really, really valuable tools. Lane, give us your last thoughts on this before we let you go. Well, I want to follow up.

I just found out, y'all, I'm going to be a grandmother for the first time. Oh, congratulations. Literally last week, the 21st of March. And I said, oh, have you got the book, What to Expect When You're Expecting? Because that's, you know, we all read that. You know, it tells you exactly what to expect. Listen, I saw my book next to it. Because if we don't expect warfare, you know, then we won't be prepared.

So I agree, Rachel. I would say, I think I love to leave this one nugget that no one, no prodigal is too far gone for God to move. And I really encourage you that one touch of God, I've seen it with all three of my children, can change everything instantly. So I don't know what parent needs to hear that today. But all three of my kids had that experience with God, that one-on-one experience, and it truly changed their lives forever. that experience with God that one-on-one experience and it truly changed their lives forever well I'm so grateful that you have been you and your children and your family have been so open and so honest about what what happens in real families and it's it's such a treasure it's such a source of inspiration and

hope for so many families on that you did that is actually probably one of the greatest services that your family has done for our country. And every parent needs these tools to enter into this battle with, you know, for their children on behalf of their children. Lane, what a wonderful lady you are. If I wish you were here, I could give you a big old hug. I do too. I do too. This is so great. So Lane Lawson Craft, thank you for joining us. And by the way, I just got to tell you, we appreciate you sticking with us as we've had a little Valentina partake in this podcast. I love it. I love it. What you couldn't see off camera is she was going to the cupboard and grabbing sharp things. She went in while I was talking to you. Sean's pointing at me and I look over.

I have a cabinet and it has the blades to like my Nutri Nutri blend thing. I'm like, I can't go grab that. We're a family. Protecting her. Yeah, exactly. Sean had her eye on her. We're a family friendly podcast here, I guess. By the way, you, Lane, have been the perfect follow-up.

Last week, we did a podcast with an exorcist. Wow. You know, just in case people don't believe it's real, it's real. It's real. You were the perfect bookend to that because truly what the devil is going after is our children. Yes, to destroy them. You make it very clear. Again, I don't think you have to just, you can just turn on the news and see it.

Amen. But your book provides real life examples, real tangible tools, but especially reminds us how prayer is ultimately what's going to save our kids. So thank you, Lane. You've been amazing. Thank you all. Really. Thank you very much. God bless.

God bless you. And congratulations on that new grandbaby. I can't wait. November. So excited. Awesome. Thank you, Lane. Thanks, Lane. Thank y'all. We'll have more of this conversation after this. The Scorebet app here with trusted stats and real-time sports news. Yeah. Hey, who should I take in the Boston game? Well, statistically speaking. Nah, no more statistically speaking. I want hot takes. I want knee-jerk reactions. That's not really what I do.

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If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or the gambling of someone close to you, please go to connexontario.ca. Fascinating conversation with Lane. Yeah, she was fantastic. And such an important book. And she actually radiates light, doesn't she? She does so happy.

But you know what? That's the kind of light that comes from going through a journey. I mean, she's, you know, going to be a grandma now. She's got three adult kids who've been through things in different levels i also really like that that you know for one it was sort of a self-esteem issue for another you know it was drugs for another it was you know pornography everybody is facing all of our kids are they're getting inundated with all kinds of stuff they all as you said are different personalities are impacted by different um things the culture, but all of our

kids are going to get something and to have the tools. And I think to really start with that idea that this kid is on loan from God and you better partner with the person who gave you this child. If you're going to help them through the journey, but that's the light I think she has. She has the light that comes from the wisdom of understanding that in the end, she's not in control. No, she's not. She's not. Her kid's going to do what her kid's going to do. The culture's going to do what it's going to do.

And God's going to do what he's going to do. So back at the turn of the last century when bikes were developed, it was a big problem. Bikes were a problem. Why? Because parents were really concerned that now if their child had a bike, their teenager had a bike, they could actually travel further and be further away from them in their home. Is that even true? 100% it was true. That's fascinating. So there was a debate about. I wish that was our problem now. What happened? It is relatable to today and that's

why I brought it up because there was this poll that this tight family unit and communities had about what happens to children when they can actually get on this device and be on their own and get further away. And they were rightfully concerned about what the bike's impact would have on the family and the culture. And that was over 100 years ago. Right, because you could leave the farm and go somewhere else or meet your boyfriend down the street on your bike. Riding 15 miles away is a lot different than walking 15 miles. Big difference, right? Huge, yes. So it changed the culture for the kids.

And there's been many iterations of this, but now we're dealing with the phone. In the car, and now it's the phone. The phone is the gravitational pull of this thing. Yes. It's so much greater, and it's such a wonderful tool. It makes us more productive, allows us to get access information so much more quickly. But with the benefit of the tool also comes all of these pressures and temptations on the phone that are not benefiting the kids in this culture. And that's why, again, we've talked about this in the podcast before, but with a lot of kids, you can make mistakes.

The first four, we gave phones to relatively early. The fifth one, it took us five times. I'm sorry it took us so long, but the fifth one, she is 14, almost 15, doesn't have a phone, and we don't have any plans of giving her her phone anytime soon. Now, she'll get on our home computer, not far from where we sit right now on this floor. And we'll go get on some social media. She thinks she's sneaky chat with her friends. She'll chat with her friends, but she doesn't go to bed with it. She doesn't make up with it. And that pull is so strong. Um, and again,

I think she, she, she makes a good point to go and listen, keep praying. Don't support the bad habits. Don't rescue them when they need to fall. Yeah, that's a hard one for a lot of parents. But be there. Be there and keep praying and love them through it. And again, trust. Trust that God who gave you this child is not going to let this child fail, that you guys need to partner together.

And again, this idea that the control, I really, this story about in the Uber is an amazing story. But those are the amazing miracles that God can work even, you know, in the most complicated situations but there is nothing more important nothing more important than keeping your family together focusing there's no problem at work more important than your problem with your kid there's no problem at work more important or no relationship at work more important than the relationships that you have in your own home with your own family and that's where our focus should be we shouldn't let those other things stress us out because there's enough to stress us out here, right? There's enough to work on here. And this is the real work in a family. That's really where we need to put our attention.

We'll have more of this conversation after this. Shop Cyber Monday deals now on Amazon. With up to 35% off home goods to deck their halls, toys to stuff their stocking, and electronics like noise-canceling headphones to silent their night. Shop Amazon Cyber Monday deals now. Speaking of family, let's bring in our own daughter, Evita Duffy. She is a staff writer for The Federalist. Evita, welcome to The Kitchen Table. Talk to us. Why don't you give us the layout for your article that you wrote in The Federalist about TikTok and their influence. People are worried about the data collection, but you have an article talking more about how they influence American policy

and truly our own energy security through TikTok. Yeah. So actually it all started when I came home to visit last week. I was home and dad said, Paloma came home and asked me, Paloma's my 13 year old sister. She came home and was asking about the Willow Project. And Paloma does not, she's an awesome little girl who very smartly does not have a phone and does not have any social media. And we asked her, where did you hear about the Willow Project, which is an oil venture in Alaska that was recently greenlit by the Biden administration? And she said, well, my friends at school were talking about it. They heard about it on TikTok. So I went on TikTok and I started to look up the Willow Project and I noticed something really, really strange. Most of the mega popular videos against the Willow Project, anti-Willow Project

videos that use the hashtag, hashtag stop Willow, were created by these accounts that first started posting it around February 28th and a little bit after that. And they're nameless and they use many of the same videos and they use auto-generated AI voice and don't show anybody's real face on them. So it was these really bizarre nameless accounts that were getting hundreds of thousands, if not millions of views about the Willow Project. Now, could it be an environmentalist organization astroturfing and trying to, you know, push anti-Willow project content? Well, I thought about that.

And when I looked on Instagram, on Facebook, on YouTube and Twitter, there was much less Willow project content on these other platforms, much less content and much less engagement. There was not a single Willow Project post on Twitter that got millions of views. And the biggest one was a hashtag from Greta Thunberg. It was a tweet that wasn't even really about the Willow Project. It just used the Stop Willow hashtag and had 500,000 views on it and not even that many likes. So it was a real disparity between the push. And I was wondering, perhaps this is a CCP influence campaign because it's so unique to TikTok and because the account seems so nameless and not real people. So I actually reached out to- So you think they're Chinese bots and that

TikTok, through pressure from the CCP or a strategy that they work in conjunction with the Communist Party in China, that they're altering the algorithm. So young people are getting these videos about Willow Project bad, which, of course, Biden, maybe Shania could explain a little bit more about the Willow Project so people understand the policy implications of it. But you believe this is a Chinese Communist Party influence campaign on TikTok, a perfect example of what our members of Congress are talking about when they say we need to ban TikTok. Right. And what's interesting about the Willow Project is it's bipartisan. So both Democrats and Republicans in Alaska supported this oil venture. And in the mainstream media, there's slight pushback from some environmentalists, some op-eds, as there always is going to be. But it was pretty minor and not very big. But suddenly, I mean, the TikTok rhetoric was the world is going to end. We need to stop Biden. He's going to single-handedly destroy the earth and burn the planet and kill all the polar bears. Really unhinged takes on TikTok that aren't really in line with mainstream leftism in America. So it was a really interesting kind of disparity on this app versus mainstream politics. And suddenly after there were these sort of

nameless accounts going viral, then you saw real Gen Zers start to come on and be outraged about the Willow Project. And people like Paloma were asking, what's this all about? Right. So the algorithm goes up artificially on the really ham-handed videos that look pretty fake and over the top. But then the TikTok influencers go, well, what's trending? Oh, this must be a great topic. And so they start doing videos. Right. Yeah. And then I also wanted to add that I reached out to FCC Commissioner Brendan Carr, who

also said that this does appear to be a CCP influence campaign. And it's similar to other ones that Australia and the US government have documented. So the way the TikTok algorithm works is basically they're controlling who's seeing what content and they can elevate content, which they do all the time. Which by the way, if you're an influencer, you can make good money because you're elevated through the algorithm in TikTok. And so if you have a CCP driven social media app that can change the perceptions of Americans who use the app, that's a really powerful tool. And so the question would become, well, why would the Chinese government care about the Willow Project? Now, the Willow Project, again,

is an oil and gas project up in Alaska. A lot of energy there, a lot of revenue to the federal government, a lot of jobs. And again, it revenue to the federal government, a lot of jobs. And again, it goes to this point of American energy independence. Well, the Chinese don't want America to be energy independent because if we produce our own oil and gas and use it to heat our homes and in our cars and send goods around the country, that means that we don't rely on China then for battery powered cars because most of the batteries that are made to go in most of the electric cars in America are made in China. So a key component of a battery is cobalt. Most of the cobalt, known cobalt in the world, is in the Congo.

world is in the Congo. And I think 40% of the world's supply of cobalt is in the Congo, but there are other countries in Africa that have it as well. So China controls 70% of the cobalt in the Congo, and they send it all back to China for refining. But all the cobalt in the world, 80% of it is refined in China. And in every battery, I think it's 18 pounds of cobalt in the world. 80% of it is refined in China. And in every battery, I think it's 18 pounds of cobalt goes in every battery for every car. So China has got a vested interest in making sure that America is weak on energy and transitions to electric and batteries, which means we're even more reliant on the Chinese Communist Party. And so I guess with that, Evita, it makes sense. And there's a lot of conversation right now about what data does the Chinese government get from TikTok

and how much do they know about all of us? And I think a fair point is made. Well, yeah, the Chinese, the Communist Party know a lot of information about us because of the data. But so too does facebook and twitter and every other in in in in google they all have that information but i think the real concern here is the kind of influence the kind of minds they can change with what they elevate on that platform that can be not in line with american values but in line with the ccp value

yeah i mean i mean it, it's really interesting to, and I will preface this with, I actually looked at 64 different accounts. There are 64 accounts with videos from one to 13 different ones that are just like this sort of doomsday end of the world. The Willow Project is going to burn us all up and kill all the fish and kill all the penguins and the polar bears. And we're all going to die because Joe Biden greenlit this really horrible oil venture. So really unhinged takes, really unscientific takes. But the point is that it's worked. And actually, NPR and I believe CNN have reported about how Gen Zers are so outraged on TikTok about the Willow Project. It's true that they actually have. So the outrage and the millions of views were by these really kind of bizarre anonymous accounts.

But it's not a lie that Gen Zers are upset about the Willow Project because of that, lie that Gen Zers are upset about the Willow Project because of that, that now they actually think that, you know, Joe Biden is, you know, bringing in the climate change disaster that they've all feared and that the Willow Project is going to really usher that in. So the fear that that video sort of is tapping into is not artificial as this sort of campaign is. The fear is real now because that's what they've done. It's been successful and genuinely scaring young people. So I've noticed sort of a generational divide on the TikTok issue. So as you pointed out correctly, there is a bipartisan consensus for the most part in Washington, D.C. among our lawmakers that we should ban TikTok, right? That the

Chinese are collecting our data, they're figuring out a lot of information about the 150 million TikTok users who are mostly young people. There's also been talk about, you know, how they're dumbing us down. It's less clear, I think. I think it's harder for people. It's easier for them to understand how they collect data. I think it's harder for people to understand how this influence campaign works, how they're trying to change the values and the minds of young people who are on it through these kinds of campaigns that we've been talking about.

But if you talk to young people, social media influencers themselves are like, why are you, why is Congress trying to stop me from making money? I make more money on TikTok than I do on the other platforms. If he does, are any evidence that the CCP is purposefully paying American TikTok influencers more than the market value, say, that they would, you know, than Facebook is paying? Is that part of their strategy to kind of get young Americans, especially those influencers, to become their voice? Some people are saying that this campaign to stop TikTok from being canceled by social media influencers is a Chinese CCP influence project. I actually think it's just a good business move on TikTok's part. I think

there's a lot of, I think there's a lot of young people who are, have a lot of followers, oddly enough, people who have random hair accounts or who review gadgets or, or who, you know, comment on celebrity drama. And they want to say, where do I want my followers to go? And they want to go to the place where they get paid the most and where they get the most bang for their buck. And that's TikTok. TikTok pays their influencers well. And it's partly because they can.

They have 150 million Americans using the app and using it for hours and hours a day, right? People are scrolling constantly on it, especially young people. Less so with Facebook, which has an older sort of user base. They don't tend to use it quite as often. So they can afford to do that. I think it's a good business move for them. I'm not sure that that's super sinister, but it does go into the amount of power that they have, influence they have for young people, specifically in America. I want to say, I think that there's a lot of outrage about TikTok. I think conservatives see the CCP influence. That's correct. I think, you know, liberals will say that there's not

enough censorship on the app, that it's not that they have too much disinformation. You've heard that, you know, before. It's kind of a broken record from the left. But I believe that the other apps are just as bad as TikTok with data harvesting. I think that the other apps actually can be worse because they target American conservatives. So if you're me, Sean and Rachel, right? I mean, TikTok can actually, in some ways, be more hospitable to you because American companies are in bed with the left and with the deep state and have have, you know, political targeting in their mind. The CCP is TikTok is a little bit different because it's not always easy for us to pick up on the CCP's messaging campaigns or their motivations, right? So when the Hunter Biden laptop was censored before the 2020 election, everybody knew exactly what that was for. Everybody knew exactly what the point of that was. With TikTok, it'd be a little harder to

pick up on, like the Willow Project. I mean, it's something that not everybody really notices. So there's some danger in TikTok being a little more covert in their influence campaigns. But I don't want to understate how dangerous American apps are. And I don't want that to be lost on us in this debate. They're just as bad, if not more dangerous to certain people who are conservative. I think that's a good point, Avita. But also, you have the left trying to take out the right through social media. And again, that's bad.

We're part of the group that's censored by these social media platforms. However, China is trying to take out America. And so we have to weigh and balance them. I will say, hey, I'm opposed to China trying to take out America. More so than about the left trying to take out conservatives, right? They're both bad, but China's worse than the American apps. All of them are harvesting too much information. By the way, AOC just came on to TikTok and- Sean, what do you make of what she's saying as a member of

Congress? Well, first, I guess I wouldn't mind getting Evita's point of view. I think she makes some really good points, Evita, in regard to saying, listen, there should be data privacy. By the way, when I was in Congress, I tried to work on data privacy and no one seemed to care. But I do think there is a heightened sense of concern on data privacy. But what do you think that AOC is like? We shouldn't ban TikTok. That's un-American. We don't ban social media apps. I think that she's right to say that this is setting a very dangerous precedent, that we're going to just outright ban apps.

I think the government having the kind of power to say, we're not going to let this be on anybody's iPhone. She banned Parler, Evita. She banned Parler. No, I think it's completely hypocritical of AOC. Of course, she was supportive of the Apple Store doing that to Parler, Evita. She banned Parler. No, I think it's completely hypocritical of AOC. Of course, she was supportive of the Apple Store doing that to Parler. But to have the U.S. government step in and ban TikTok, I'm not positive that's the right answer. I think that she's on to something when she says we need more regulations for all of these apps.

We need to make sure that people's user privacy, their data, their private information, all of that is protected and not being harvested and sold off against their wills. I think that's a totally fair point and perhaps a solution to this. And if China doesn't, if TikTok doesn't want to abide by American regulations, which aren't in place right now, we do not, we have not addressed user privacy or the internet in an adequate way at all. The technology is far ahead of government policy. If we can get those policies in there and China refuses to abide by them and TikTok says no, okay, fine. Then they can be off the app. But before we even have those policies in place to just outright ban the app, I'm not sure that's the right call.

And I think that she's on to something. I agree with AOC a little bit, although I will say you're right. She is a hypocrite. So let me tell you why you're wrong. We're at war with China, Evita. We are at war with China. And they're using this platform to come after America, to warp the minds and the viewpoints of the American people who use their app. And they do it by their algorithm that elevates certain content. And the Willow Project is a good example on how you can get a whole movement moving

based on TikTok elevating certain videos that the world's going to end if we're going to have the Willow Project approved in Alaska. That concerns me. And I think if you play this out, you'd go, well, are American companies allowed

to do business in China? So can Twitter be in China? Can Facebook be in China? Can YouTube and Google be in China? Again, all companies I'm not that thrilled with, but does China allow those products in China? Uncensored. And the answer is no, they don't allow American companies, social media companies in China. Why does America allow Chinese companies in America? It's two standards, right? So we're like, but we're not China. We're an open economy. We believe in free enterprise, which we do. But at some point, you have to have an equilibrium with your trading partners, with the countries that you do business with. And so it has to be reciprocity. If you ban our companies, I'm sorry, we should ban your companies.

Is there no Twitter and Facebook, Sean? No, none. Oh, I thought they just censored it. No, they don't exist there. If we can't buy land next to Chinese military bases, they shouldn't be allowed to buy land next to our military bases. I mean, is America stupid? The Chinese have come out and said, we want to replace America as the economic and military power in the world. That is their stated goal. They're partnering with Russia right now to replace America. We have to recognize that and understand the threats that they pose.

This is an economic weapon that they're using, which is TikTok. It's a military weapon, TikTok. We have to recognize it as that and the threat that it is. And I think cut it out. And here's my concern. Again, I don't want to diatribe you guys, but here is my concern. The longer we wait, the harder it's going to be to ban it, because the closer that you get to the 2024 election, the harder it will be for politicians and Joe Biden, who is a politician, to ban the app because a lot of people are going to be angry that are young. They will want retribution for all who voted to ban their favorite platform.

And the further away you get from the election, the easier it's going to be for everybody. You wait until, you know, August or September or December. Really problematic. I never thought about that. They're going to be angry. And so they kind of have to do it. Do it not. But, you know, right now, I mean, there are a few like Mark Pocan and you had a few lefties left, really far lefties.

But for the most part, it's pretty bipartisan. So even if they did it closer to the election, Sean, who are they going to take it out on? Because the Republicans and Democrats are both or will Joe Biden show up? They just may not show up. And Joe Biden goes, if young kids don't show up because of the Willow Project and TikTok, I lose because those are my voters. Here's another point that should concern us. Kevin McCarthy said, I'm going to bring the bill to the floor to ban TikTok. Right. And what happens? The CCP loses their mind. And they start to start to attack Kevin McCarthy and say that Kevin McCarthy's bill to ban TikTok is not American, coming from the Communist Chinese Party. But they're upset. The communists in China are upset that America might

ban their favorite influencing app on the American people. So all of these things should concern us. And I get your point, Evita, but I see this differently. We're at war. You know what's interesting that Evita said to me? Listen, I don't go through TikTok. I don't have it. I don't do it. But she does. And she said, Evita, you told me that there are more diverse opinions in terms of conservative versus liberal that you see on that platform than you do on others. Am I correct about that, that you said that? I'm going to give you an example that's actually not political. On TikTok, on Instagram recently, the CarnivoreMD, I don't know if the viewers know who he is.

I love watching his videos. watching his videos. He's a doctor who believes in eating meat and fruit, honey, raw dairy, sort of a health guy. And he's really against seed oils, which has been a thing that's come up a lot recently, anti-seed oil, talking about how bad they are for you, how they stay in your body for years. And he did a whole video on Instagram about seed oils and Instagram flagged it as as as misinformation and had an article linking to to a Reuters piece, you know, saying how this is this is misinformation. That video was not Reuters is funded by big food who sells all the seed. Yep. Yep. All of these big major food companies that will use seed oils that that have processed food, are funding a lot of the studies about what food is healthy. The food pyramid, all these different things are funded by Kellogg's, right, is a huge one. That video was not on TikTok. So to have some diversity of our apps, some that are not American, that aren't controlled by American interests and American discourse, I think is a good thing.

And TikTok does that. And I also to respond to your point, because I still I get it. I understand the point. I still disagree because I think to myself, who is the greater threat to me. Is it the Communist Party or is it our own government? Or is it this big tech companies that have complete and utter control over political and just discourse in general in our country and the ties that they have to the deep state and to the Democratic Party? And I think the greater immediate threat to myself, my beliefs, my families, and my values is actually the other side of the political aisle, as are the deep state and its ties to the big tech companies. Those American big tech companies, those people pose a greater threat to myself than the CCP does at this point. And I think we need

to think if we're going to ban TikTok because it poses such a big threat to the United States, we might as well go nuclear and ban all of them and overthrow our government. Because to me, our own government right now is posing a greater threat to us than China. I think it's a really fair point. And in the end, like, what are we defending? that were perfectly willing to censor world-renowned physicians and scientists during COVID, that silenced and changed algorithms so people who were experiencing vaccine injuries could not talk on social media or create a community with other fellow vaccine you know, vaccine injured Americans. I mean, yes, Evita, you're absolutely right. Our social media companies are totally in bed with the FBI, with DOJ, with our public health, you know, experts, so-called experts like Fauci and with

the Biden administration. And I agree. I think that is a bigger threat to me in the immediate moment. We had this discussion on Fox and Friends, you know, Will, Pete and I, and, you know, Will and I kind of sided a little bit more with you on this. Pete took dad's position. But in the end, what we came to the conclusion, which I hope the three of us do, is that we can do both. Like, we can work towards making sure our data isn't collected by any of these social media companies. We need to work on that. We need to work on making sure that this collusion, like with the Twitter files and the things that have come out, you know, that that collusion doesn't exist. But at the same time, I think dad's right about the fact that the CCP is, you know, blowing a gasket right be easier for them to overtake in the future. quickly on your point, Evita, I think in a democracy, I can change the course of how those

social media apps are engaging in censoring conservatives. I can do that. And again, it's a threat right now. It's very concerning. But the course of their engagement can be changed in the way that America operates. We're not going to change the course of China, but for banning them. And again, I think to your point, Rachel, we can do both at the same time. And again, I don't, I'm still an American. I still, I'm frustrated with my country, but I still love my country. And I will never sell us out to China. I'm not saying that you are saying that, but I see that the threat of China and actually taking over our country is real. And therefore, I don't want to empower them at all, including this social media app. I saw a social media influencer.

He was not the age I had expected. He was probably, I don't know, in his late 30s, early 40s. He's an independent journalist. And he said, listen, I'm an independent journalist. I'm covering stories that aren't getting covered in, you know, mainstream media or even cable news. And I'm putting this stuff out there and nobody else is paying me as much as TikTok. So the public is losing out when they don't get, you know, this information. I have to make a living. I have to support my family.

I do this independent journalism that's, you know, it appears like he's doing good work. I saw some of his stuff. I kind of liked it. Instagram will pay. Other social media apps will pop up. But they will pay, I guess. Just because China is able to buy off a couple people, that doesn't mean it's not a threat to the country. So I go, yes.

Vivek Ram Swamy, when he announced his presidency, talked about there's going to be some sacrifice. If we're going to decouple from China, Americans are going to have to have some sacrifice because it's for the betterment of the country. And yes, some people won't make as much money on TikTok. I'm sorry, but I'm not willing to trade my freedom in because, you know, a few hundred people can't make as much money on TikTok. I'm sorry, but I'm not willing to trade my freedom in because, you know, a few hundred people can't make as much money as influencers. It's sad, but our democracy, our freedom is more important than, you

know, TikTok being used as a Chinese spy tool. I have to say that's a fair point. Avita, final word? TikTok? Did I just see you yawn, Avita? Twice. She fell asleep too. That's not a great sign. Valentina's now snooping, snoring.

By the way, that's not me snoring through this podcast. That's Valentina snoring. I'm sorry, Sean. What was your question? What's your final thought on TikTok? We're going to wrap this podcast up as you take us out. Yeah. I mean, I think this is just an agree to disagree thing. I think we, I think our, I still believe that our own government

poses a much greater threat to us and the connection that our government has to the, to big tech than, than TikTok does. I think TikTok, you know, it's been a little bit understated, but TikTok is actually a driving force in our economy. It does pay a lot of people who are now, you know, influencers full time. And the other apps are reveling in this proposed ban. They, I mean, Instagram and Facebook and YouTube with their shorts and the similar kind of content that they have, ecstatic. If TikTok goes away, these apps are so happy. And I think competition is a good thing.

I think it always is a good thing. And to have competing platforms with different ideas that are allowed to be, you know, allowed to stand on the platform, allowed to be pushed on the platform is always a good thing, too. So I don't think – I'm not so sure that banning is the right thing. I will not, but I also don't want to understate the threat that TikTok does have. My whole article was about how they have the ability to push influence campaigns on American youth. So to say that there's not a threat. I think it's important to also know why China is so much better, their TikTok is so much better than some of these other short reels,

you know, platforms that are trying to compete with them so apparently they have this like they have these young people that work for them that are constantly upgrading and responding to the users and what they need and they they actually call it sean like there's it's a chinese word for embroidery it's this fine tuning of the way they of the way that they make the platform work and how much more user-friendly it is. It's constantly updating. It's a better platform. So the question then becomes, you know, why aren't Americans as good at innovating these social media platforms as the CCP? Is the CCP artificially paying off basically with higher wages, social influencers, so they go to their app and that's why it's better?

I don't know. It could be that. There's a lot of things playing into this. What do you think, Evita, will be the, you know, Sean kind of alluded to it a little bit. He thinks there's going to be a huge backlash or political reaction by young people if TikTok is banned. I think this ban might actually happen. What do you think is going to be the reaction from young people? Oh, it's going to be huge. Young people are, especially, they're very angry about this proposition. They've said, you know, they've been pointing out, you know, what's happened at East Palestine and the other threats that our country has had. And we have poison in our food and the government's doing nothing about

that, but you're going to ban TikTok. So there's been a major outrage among young people. And I actually would be very surprised if Biden took any sort of step to sign a bill or to do an executive order to ban TikTok because his supporters are angry at him right now. All of his Gen Z supporters. There was an article in CNN that said, you know, I spearheaded the TikTok youth Gen Zers for Biden, you know, movement. And now he wants to ban the place that I get revenue from. People are very angry about this. So if Biden takes a move to ban TikTok, all the power to him, I actually think that that'd show a little bit of integrity more than he's had throughout this entire thing, because he will get hit hard if this actually

gets banned. If he doesn't ban it, that's right. He's compromised. Yeah. And that might be the fallback position from Joe Biden. And just as we end this, Evita, as I kind of think of the backdrops of each of our screens, I think you might have a hammer and sickle behind you and I have an American flag behind me. That's fine. That's fine. me that's fine that's my life no honestly i mean i really appreciate so much of the of your passion for making sure that our system um and and our businesses are truly independent that our government isn't influencing people um and they clearly are and listen we saw it all for the last two years and you're 100 right i think this is one of these cases where you're right and dad's right.

But I also think, check out your article on The Federalist. Because you are laying out the influence campaign that is beneficial to China and detrimental to America. What's the title of the article again? Why the hashtag Stop the Willow Movement on TikTok may be a CCP influence campaign. Love it. Love it. Well, great conversation, Avita, on TikTok. Thank you for joining us again

at the kitchen table. We just had you here a couple days ago, but it's going to do this via video and hopefully we'll have you home over Easter. So thanks for joining us. We've enjoyed the conversation and hope you did too. So we hope you subscribe, rate, and review this podcast

at foxnewspodcast.com or wherever you download your podcasts. You can listen ad-free with a Fox News podcast plus subscription on Apple Podcasts and Amazon Prime members can listen to this show ad-free on the Amazon Music app. Until next time, and hopefully without

Valentina's presence. Oh, she, this, all this TikTok conversation. Put her to sleep. Alright, thanks for joining us, Evita. Bye, everybody. We'll see you on the kitchen table next time. From the Fox News Podcasts Network. Subscribe and listen to the Trey Gowdy Podcast.

Former federal prosecutor and four-term U.S. Congressman from South Carolina brings you a one-of-a-kind podcast. Subscribe and listen now by going to foxnewspodcasts.com.