From the Kitchen Table: The Duffys - The Double Standard Revealed By Chip & Joanna’s “Date Night” At The White House PLUS How Socially Engineering Mortgages Hurts Everyone

Episode Date: April 29, 2023

Are Conservatives more susceptible to cancel culture? Sean and Rachel discuss the media frenzy that ensued following the founders of Magnolia Market, Chip and Joanna Gaines attending the White House state dinner. They share their thoughts on the relentless media bias toward conservative celebrities. Later, they express their frustration with unjust changes to mortgage fees that will favor those with lower credit scores. Follow Sean and Rachel on Twitter: @SeanDuffyWI & @RCamposDuffy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Shop Cyber Monday Deals now on Amazon, with up to 35% off home goods to deck their halls, toys to stuff their stocking, and electronics like noise-canceling headphones to silent their night. Shop Amazon Cyber Monday Deals now. Hey everyone, welcome to From the Kitchen Table. I'm Sean Duffy, along with my co-host for the podcast, my partner in life, and my wife, Rachel Campos Duffy. Thank you, Sean. It's always great to be back.

And you know I love these moments we spend here at the kitchen table. These kitchen table chats. These chats. They're so fun. And today we have some great topics. We're going to talk about the new Biden rule that's going to punish borrowers who have better credit scores and put more money down on their homes so they can subsidize people who have lower credit scores and lower down payments. This is Marxism, communism. This is equity at its finest. But first, we're going to discuss your topic. Yeah, well, so Chip and Joanna Gaines, everyone knows who they are. They're the big

stars of HGTV. Now they started their own network called Magnolia, which they did in conjunction with Discovery TV. Well, there was a state dinner at the White House because the South Korean president came to visit the United States. So there was a state dinner. the White House because the South Korean president came to visit the United States. So there was a state dinner. You might have seen that press conference where Joe Biden was in his shades, his aviators. Yes, he's wearing his aviators. And you say he does it because he wants to be cool. I say it helps him with his teleprompter reading, but we'll discuss that later.

He looks like Tom Cruise. He looks like Tom Cruise. So anyway, Chip and Joanne go to the state dinner, and they take some pictures, Joanna does, and she posted on Instagram. And boy, a firestorm has erupted. So let's give a little context to this. So Chip and Joanne go on her Instagram page. This is what she says, and a heart emoji. And she posts this picture of herself and Chip in front of the White House. They're looking dapper. She's wearing this beautiful black strapless dress. Chip cleaned

up really nicely in a black suit. And they look fabulous. By the way, it's no pictures with Joe Biden. Hunter's not in the background. It's just them. The series of photos are just them. So the first picture they posted outside the White House, they took a second not in the background. It's just them. The series of photos are just them. So the first picture they posted outside the White House, they took a second photo inside the White House at the dinner, just the two of them. Yeah, beautiful. These beautiful flower arrangements. These events are really always, yeah, they look like cherry blossoms. These events are always well done, well put together. And so they posted, It's an amazing moment. You and I have been to the White House for the Christmas party,

even under Barack Obama, and it's an amazing moment to go into the White House. But, boy, it caused a firestorm. So they are kind of known to be, you know, pretty, they try and not be too political because their brand is about family and hearth and home and making things beautiful, which you and I both love. But I just thought I'd give you a spattering of some of the comments.

So some people are asking, does this mean you support the current administration? Others saying, I'm not going to watch your shows anymore. But other people are saying, hey, what's wrong with this world? They're just going to a state dinner. One woman says, some of these comments don't pass the vibe check for me. It's a White House state dinner. They hosted the president of South Korea, no matter who's in the White House at the time. You get that invite and you go.

This is not partisan. But other people, again, weighing in, going, what the heck, you two? And, you know, fire emojis and saying, I won't be within I wouldn't be within 100 yards of Joe Biden. And then other people saying, look, she's just celebrating her her heritage. Why are you being so negative and so ugly? It goes on and on. But that's pretty much the it's sort of a back and forth of people feeling like, you know, why are you there? The country's on fire and you're, you know, with the with the Bidens who we hold responsible and other people going look it's just a political event why i mean it's just it's just a state

dinner it's not a political she didn't go to a rally so the point is though they go to the white house and there's political uproar right and um the question might be why is there political uproar because obviously she's of korean descent the korean president's there it would make sense they're very famous and popular. Why not go? And why wouldn't Joe Biden invite them to the White House? I think the frustration is that for many conservatives, they look at the double standard that happens. And we've talked about this. What happens if someone...

Chip and Joanne. Chip and Joanne go to a Donald Trump state dinner with the Korean president? The left would lose their minds. They would do all they can to cancel all the deals that these two have. I don't know, they have a lot of deals. So this is a very interesting point you make, because yes, on the comment sections on Instagram, after she posts the photos, there's back and forth. But I can guarantee you, and you're absolutely right, Sean, there will be no concerted media matters,

George Soros concerted effort to cancel Chip and Joanne from their many deals with Target, with Anthropologie. Their Magnolia brand is worth, I don't know, upwards of $800 million by itself. They have a billion dollar, you know, all together with their discovery partnership and there's this network. They say that their brand is worth over a billion dollars. So you can be sure, Sean, and that is a very fair point, that had Chip and Joanne decided to go to a Trump state dinner, the reaction would not just be a few mean comments on Instagram.

There would be an effort to vilify them, paint them as racist, paint them as intolerant, whatever. I think that's a fair point. But let's also bring it back to you and I. We have, when Barack Obama was inaugurated... For the second time. For the second time, we brought all of our children to see that inauguration. And by the way, when you have little kids, and it's freezing cold out there, and we didn't have like great seats or anything. They were okay seats.

I had a good seat. You had a good seat. I had all the kids by myself. I had all the kids by myself in the cold. But I wanted them to experience that moment. You and I went several times to the White House Christmas ball hosted by the Obamas. Because until the very end when Trump was elected, a lot of those years that you were in office, Barack Obama was there. And so we went every single year.

It was one of our favorite things to do was go to the White House Christmas party. Obviously, Michelle and Barack Obama were there. We had our pictures taken with Michelle and Barack Obama. I think it hangs in our bathroom right now. I did hang it in the bathroom. Because I like the way I look at it. Along with a print of Hunter Biden's work hangs in our bathroom as well. A print of Hunter Biden's work hangs in our bathroom as well.

Right, because for my birthday, Pete Hegseth gave me a print of Hunter Biden's artwork, because we know he's an artist, sure. He's such an artist, yeah. And anyway, I framed that and hung that in the bathroom along with the Obamas. First of all, we worked our hearts out to beat Barack Obama. We did not want to see Barack Obama be inaugurated. No. In 2012, we were working for the Republican candidates at that time. And we lost, but we still are good sports. And we went to the inauguration. We went to the White House Christmas ball, as you mentioned, as well as the ones from President Trump. But here's why I think this is what angers me. By the way, a lot of

Democrats boycotted the inauguration of Donald Trump. And it goes to this point. So I look at it and go, you know what? These two will make the air, if you will, to go. We can dabble in a little bit of politics. We will go to the Biden White House because, yeah, I might get a little blowback, but my career is not over. I'm not going to lose endorsements when I go there. I can engage in, you know, diversity, equity and inclusion, I'm not going to question their sincerity, but they appeared on I think it's called like Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man

where they brought their family and they had a race conversation. And it was uncomfortable. It really was uncomfortable. For them. For all of us. I was really uncomfortable watching it. It just felt so, like, weird. It felt racist. Yeah. Well, actually, I thought the host said some things that were a little racist to me. But anyway, I think there was some good intentions there.

But also, after that, they said, you know what? Our company needs to have diversity, inclusion, and equity training. So their entire Magnolia industry then hired one of these groups that does this. And I think that kind of training is doing a lot of damage to our country. But I think that was what they felt they needed to do as a business to signal to their investors. As a business to signal, which is, I'm sorry, is bullshit. So you go, okay, that's a left-leaning issue, diversity, equity, and inclusion. Going to the Biden White House is, you know, playing to the left.

Do they go, you know what? I don't think it's playing to the left. The state dinner is not political. Let me make my point. Okay, all right. Okay, so do they go, you know what? I'm in Texas, and I'm not political, but I support an individual's right to bear arms. They haven't said that.

Or do they go, you know what? In America, I believe everyone should have the right to speak freely, even if I disagree with it, and it should happen online. Have they said that? Oh, no. Have they said anything about, we should make America great. You know what? This is a great country. We came from nothing. And look at the enterprise that we've built. China's trying to destroy us. Let's do more to make this country great. Now, what would happen if they said those things? That would be a signal that they lean to the right or they're taking on a right-leaning issue. And that would be catastrophic for their business. And they would

never do it. But we sit here and say, oh, no, it's okay for them to do DEI and go to the Biden White House when they wouldn't go to the Trump White House. I don't like the double standard that we have to put up with them leaning to the left. They lean a little bit to the right. And again, I would agree with you. They're kind of nonpartisan. I think they're largely nonpartisan. But they will play partisanship and they'll play it to the left and they would never dare do it to the right.

I think what it is, to be more precise, I think that there are good people who deserve some precision in how we do this. And maybe I am a little bit biased because I love Magnolia Market. I don't. I can't give it up. I don't give it up. Because I think everything she does is amazing. Way overpriced. Way overpriced.

They make way too much money on their stuff. I disagree. When I went to Texas. They have a little shop right down the street from Fox News. Isn't that their bakery? No, that's not their bakery. There is a Magnolia Bakery, but it's not theirs. That's not their bakery.

That's how informed I am in this podcast. I thought that was theirs. No, but when we went to Texas, I went to Texas once to give a speech around our anniversary. And you said, what do you want to do for your anniversary? I said, I want you to take me to Waco. And you took me to Waco. I'm still raw about you to take me to Waco. And you took me to Waco. I'm still raw about that. I went to Waco.

It was actually wonderful. And we had a great time at the market. It was wonderful. That said, I think you make a good point. And I'm trying to get back to what we were trying to say. I don't think that Joanna and Chip going to the state dinner was political. But I also believe that what you're saying is true, that because she went to the Biden Biden state dinner,

her political interests won't take that as her business interests won't take that as political. But had she made had they made the same choice and gone to see the Korean president under the Trump administration, there would be calls for a boycott. There would be questions about whether they are actually good people or not, which I have no doubt they are. But I, I totally agree with you. You're making my point. Yeah, I am. But maybe less harshly. I like that.

They would not go if invited to a Trump White House state dinner. That's the point. And they know that that is toxic. You're far more gracious. And so I look at this and I go, we should all play by the same rules. And if we're going to apply rules to a Trump White House and people who go, we should apply the same rules to a Democrat White House. You can't have two standards.

And we're playing a double standard here. Or just because you like them, you're playing a double standard. I'm just I'm a true straight shooter. I'm calling. You know what, Sean? No, no, I agree. I know. Listen, it could be that my, you know, my affection for affection for them and their

family and what they sell. I love their stuff. They got maybe coloring me. But but that they sell, because I love their stuff. It seems like a great family. It's maybe coloring me, but that double standard, Sean, has always existed. I mean, you always talk about how, you know, when Democrats, the few times that Democrat politicians get, you know, a tough question, they kind of fumble because they're just not used to it. And you've just, you understand that there is a double standard. Here's another double standard. Remember when Vince Vaughn went to, I think, a baseball, was it a football game?

It was a football game. And Donald Trump, at the time, was the President of the United States, and the First Lady were also there. And Vince Vaughn goes in, and he says hi to him. I mean, everybody kind of knows that Vince Vaughn is a libertarian, which, of course, is Hollywood code for I'm a Republican. But anyway, he goes, he just says hi. I mean, and somebody caught a picture of it. It went online, and he was really excoriated. Massive blowback when Vince Vaughn, one of our favorite actors,

steps in and says hi to the president. They lost their minds. And Vince didn't apologize. I think he just kind of weathered the storm. But that's the kind of blowback you get if you actually say hi to the sitting president of the United States of America. Let alone go to a state dinner. Let alone go to a state dinner. That's right.

So that's what frustrates me. It is a double standard. There's no question about it. And, again, what would happen to this empire? And it is an empire. I mean, again, anthropology, Target, their own brands, this new Discovery Network relationship that they have where they have a whole array of shows, you know, kind of based on their theme, their magazine, their cookbooks. I mean, this is an enterprise. And would they risk it by showing just fair treatment. Let's see. If Donald Trump is elected in the next election, hopefully the Trump White House will test it and see if they get an invitation to a state dinner. Will they say yes? I'm going to convict right now. I have enough information to go. They will play footsie with Democrats, and they will run away from Republicans, even though that may not be in

their hearts. I believe they're probably fairly conservative. They're Christians. They are family-driven. They're from Texas. If I was a betting man, I'd say that's probably a conservative family that's willing to maybe sell out their beliefs publicly for their business interests. And for me, I go, well, okay, that's fine, but why am I supporting you when you're supporting Democrats?

Because they sell such beautiful things. I know. Listen, I know you and I argue about this. But listen. So that was the only story. So also, if you recall, when Donald Trump went on with Jimmy Fallon in the presidential election against Hillary Clinton, Hillary Clinton went on, Donald Trump went on, and Jimmy famously reached over and tussled Donald Trump's hair, messed it up. The left kind of went crazy because like, oh, you're humanizing Donald Trump. You're normalizing Donald Trump.

You're normalizing him. That's right. This was before the 2016 election. If you're watching this on video, we have a picture of Donald Trump with his hair all messed up. It was all about, is Donald Trump's hair real or does he have a toupee on? Because there were questions about that at the time. And it is his real hair. But again...

Hard to believe Donald let Jimmy mess up his hair, because Donald's really particular about his hair. This is a late show. This is comedy having two candidates on. And again, they didn't go to a state dinner. He didn't go to a state dinner. He just normalized Donald Trump. And the left went crazy. Humanizing him. Yeah, I mean, but that was like the last time that anything like that ever happened again.

No. So eventually, so Jimmy Phelan got so many, you know, bad feedback from this. And he was accused of having helped Trump, who eventually did win that election. He did? He did. He did. eventually did win that election. He did? He did. He did. That Jimmy actually eventually apologized for having allowed Donald Trump on. And as you can see, there's never, you know, since then, no other left wing talk, late night talk show person has given, you know, they've gone far to

the left. Nobody ever gives a break to any republicans let alone donald trump in fact the monologues even though donald trump hasn't been in office for you know how long three years two and a half three years um he's still the center of all their you know their their monologues and jokes and it's why greg gutfeld i think has been able to to rise the way he has um as a late night talk show host. Right, because they're just so far-left, crazy loonies. Yeah, he's the king of late-night. And by the way, all these on the major networks, they're not funny anymore.

It's all about politics, and there's no humor left in what they do. But here's my bottom line. That's not a play on my Fox Business show at 6 o'clock. Yeah, you're plugging your business show. But my bottom line is, if you're a business, be about your business, right? Don't get involved in politics.

But if you want to then step into the foray of politics, and again, you're saying this was... I don't think a state dinner is politics, but... Is coming out publicly and saying we need to do DEI. It's coming out and saying we're going to do a conversation with a black man, uncomfortable conversations with a black man, which, but by the way, I think was, um, you can go back and watch, you can, you can Google that and watch it for yourself and see what you think, see what you think about that conversation. So that's okay. We're, we're willing to look over that. And I go, you know, I'm not actually, I'm so sick of what's happening, um, in, in business today, in culture today, in the one-sided nature of how things operate. And I'm fed up.

I'm kind of done with it. And I mentioned on the last podcast, we still sell out to Amazon, right? We still do that. There's some things that we'll do. You know, I do think we sell a Netflix account, right? They make me angry. But we do make other choices with our dollar. And, again, if I was you, I would, I'm not going to say a Netflix account, right? They make me angry. But we do make other choices with our dollar.

And again, if I was you, I would, I'm not going to say boycott, but I would push back. I'm definitely not boycotting them, because I don't think that this was an intentionally political move to go to the state dinner. I think she's Korean. I think there was a genuine desire. But I will say this. I totally 100% agree with you that they would be facing a different environment today, a different kind of pushback. It wouldn't just be mean comments. It would be real financial consequences to going to a state dinner. One other thing I want to mention before we move on to our next topic, which is that Chip has a sister who ran for school board. And they donated money to her, as they should. They're a family member. They should help their sibling in the school board.

And then later on, after they donated the money, the sister kind of came out and talked a little more explicitly about her... Her views. Yeah, her platform as a school board member. And one of them was that she was anti-CRT. What? Chip and Joanne got huge pushback from the left because the left is really good at, like, they're a small number of radicals, but they make a big, loud voice. And they just had no comment.

So they neither defended the sister in terms of her support for CRT or made any comment on CRT. So that was also an interesting thing. Again, if they had come out against CRT, what would have happened? What would be the business consequences? And I think that's the double standard that frustrates you and me as well. So we can agree on that for sure. We'll be back with much more after this. As a Fizz member, you can look forward to free data, big savings on plans,

and having your unused data roll over to the following month. Every month at Fizz, you always get more for your money. Terms and conditions for our different programs and policies apply. Details at Fizz.ca. Let's move to this other topic. You've got a business show. from programs and policies apply. Details at phys.ca. Let's move to this other topic. You've got a business show. You have been really upset, and I think Americans should be upset at what was, I guess, floated. I don't think this rule is going to happen, or is it going to happen? I think the rule is going to happen. Explain it. First off, let's talk about what's happened in American lexicon. You've all heard about this, but we used to talk about we want equality, and we want equality of opportunity. Everyone should have the same shot at the American

dream. And yes, people come into the world, you know, in different, you know, different families, different educations, different school systems. But you want to give everyone a shot to move up and accomplish the dream, whatever the dream might be. It might be I want to be a mechanic, I want to be an electrician, I want to own, you to own a plumbing shop, or I want to be a lawyer, or whatever your dream is, you should be able to accomplish it. That equality has very craftily been switched to equity. And equity means everyone should be equal. And we have to do what we can to bring equality to everybody. Meaning, again, no one can run faster in a race than someone else.

And so instead of trying to make the slowest one faster, we make the faster one slower. We've got to put a weight vest on them or leaded shoes to slow them down because we all have to be equal. Let someone start ahead. Now, in finance, a very common theme is you lend money based on risk. And the better the risk, the lower the rate you get, right? Because you're more apt to pay it back. The higher risk you are when you borrow money, the higher interest rate that you'll pay because you may not pay it back. Or people with your credit score may not pay it back or people with your credit score may not pay

it back. And so this theme has existed for a very long time, forever. Democrats, Joe Biden has come on and said, well, we want to change that. So when you buy a house, many homes that are purchased are guaranteed by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, right? They're the ones that went insolvent back in 2008 and needed a massive bailout from the federal government. The Congress gave them that bailout. They were in receivership. Well, they flipped that around and said, what we want to do is if you have a higher credit score

or you put down more money, like 15% to 20% down on your house, which means you're a good risk, they want to increase your fees. You have to pay more because you have a better credit score and put more money down. You save longer and put more money down. We want you to pay higher fees for your mortgage. And then the person who is going to put less money down, maybe 5% or 3% down on their house because they didn't save as much, and they have a way lower credit score, we're going to subsidize them with the good risk extra fees. Right. So we're making the low credit score family pay less and the good family credit score pay more. This is a

perverse incentive. Right. You're incentivizing people to put less money down on their homes and to have worse credit scores as opposed to going, no, you should strive to have a really great credit score. Meaning you pay your bills, you've taken out loans, you pay them back, and you saved up money and put it down in your house. And if the government guarantees these loans by taxpayer money, you actually want people to put more money down on their home because that's less risk to the federal government. And you want people with better credit scores to lend money

because that's less risk to the federal government or then the taxpayer. This is flipping crazy town. So this is essentially socially engineering the housing market. And what do you think are the long-term consequences in terms of, you know, the systemic risk to the whole economy? But also culturally, I think you bring up a good point that you're, there's something kind of racist about assuming that, you know, because you're a minority or because you're poor, you can't strive for more. You have to, you are just going to accept the lowest common denominator that you're just going to default. And we're not going to encourage you to do better. So there's that cultural thing that's going on. But then there's also, I think, some real systemic risk to this. Well, there is. And so let me just, so before the 2008 financial crisis,

someone who I got along very well with in Congress, but she is, I don't agree with her on much of anything, Maxine Waters and others in Congress that were on the financial services committee, they were pushing to make sure that more people could get access to loans to buy a home. And on his face, I agree with that. Home ownership is wonderful in America. You can build equity in your home. You own it and you're going to keep it nice and you're going to upgrade it and you're going to mow your lawn. It's a really good thing home ownership is. But it's a bad thing if you're buying a home and you can't afford it. You don't have the income to pay for the home and the taxes and

the upkeep. Well, that's a really bad bet. And so what some people in Congress did is encourage more lending to poor people who really couldn't afford it. How did they do that? Well, they lowered the standards. So more people with worse credit scores could get loans. Okay. Right? That's what they pushed. The OA crisis happens, and guess when you can't pay your mortgage, you're foreclosed on. You actually lose your house. It's a horrible thing to go through, especially if you have kids. I mean, you're getting kicked out of your house. Your credit's destroyed. You've lost the money you put into the home. It is a financial and personal wrecking ball when you lose your home.

And after that happened, all these foreclosures happened, the very people who pushed these mortgages on people who couldn't afford it, they came back and said, why? To the federal government. To the federal government and to the banks. Because there's some parts of it. So they told the banks to give out these loans to people who they knew could not afford it. And then after those people defaulted, then they went back to the banks and got mad at the banks?

Yes. And Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which are government enterprises, put the both of them and said, you're a racist. You were just trying to make a profit off these poor people by giving them these mortgages to buy these homes. It was all about you making a profit and taking advantage of people of color. That you knew couldn't buy the, couldn't afford the house. Yes. But they're like, well, but you told us to make those loans to people who couldn't afford them, people of color. That's what the bank said. But people soon forgot what Maxine Waters and others had said before the 08 crisis and only what she said after that banks were racist

when they had to foreclose. And so, I mean, the moral hazard here is, again, you want people to strive to have a higher credit score. You want people to strive to save money to put down on a home and you want people only to get a home who can afford it. Is this going to happen, though? Oh, no, it is going to happen, right. So on average... I thought they were just kind of floating it, and that maybe somebody really smart will say, of course, this is a dumb idea.

Well, the Congress is pushing back. So if you have a lower credit score, you, on average, on a $300,000 mortgage, you could end up saving $6,000 on your mortgage. If you are one with a better credit score, you could pay on that $300,000 mortgage almost $400 more on your mortgage. To cover the risk for the other people. That's right, to cover the risk of the other people. And the problem is the taxpayers are on the hook. So, again, I don't want to go into details and lose everybody, but obviously you go to your bank to get your mortgage,

and they facilitate the mortgage, but it's run through Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which guarantee the risk of the borrower. So if the borrower doesn't pay, the Duffies don't pay their mortgage, Fannie Mae will step in and pay on our mortgage that we don't pay on. So that guarantee is very useful and very powerful. And 60% of mortgages are run through Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, through the government-sponsored enterprises. So basically, the government runs housing finance in America.

And now they're getting involved in social engineering. So anyway, again, you may not care about this because you might not be buying a house soon. But the problem is you're seeing in real time these left-wing policies, these Marxist ideas of equity coming into play. And if they'll do it on something as simple as mortgages, on risk, they're going to do this everywhere.

The Congress is going to try to stop it. Even some Democrats have given some pushback to go, wait, hey, listen, that's that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Because, again, credit scores, high or low, Republicans and Democrats both have high credit scores and Republicans and Democrats both have low credit scores. And you want risk based pricing based on the risk that you are. That's the price you should get. And they're doing away with that. Yeah, that's the most colorblind way to do it, right? I mean, it's just, you know, do you pay your bills? Do you pay your stuff back? You get a score based on your financial responsibility. And there you go. But they don't want that.

I'll tell you what else they did when I was in Congress. So you go buy a car, and I don't want to go into too much depth. I don't want to put you to sleep either, but you'll go to sleep. You're about there. Here's what happens is that even with our own finances, Sean will start talking about finances, and it makes me just sleepy. And literally, he'll go, okay, don't get tired. I'm only going to take one minute to tell you this. Two minutes. We'll do two minutes.

Two minutes of talking about our finances. Stay awake for two minutes. I feel like I have to put toothpicks in my eyes. As soon as the conversation about our finances happen, I get really, really tired. Okay, this one will be really quick. Okay. You go to the dealership to buy a car. The dealer's like, I want to lend you the money.

Take out a loan. Don't pay for it in cash. And what they'll do is reach out to five or a hundred lenders, banks, to see if they want to give this loan to Rachel Campos Duffy. And one bank will go, this is the rate I'll give. And the dealership was like, okay, you know, Johnson's, we'll get you this rate with, you know, the Duffy Bank. And you, it's me, the bank, I've never met, I've never met you, right? You're at the dealership. I'm a bank somewhere. It could be across the country. I've never met you, right're at the dealership. I'm a bank somewhere. I could be across the country. I've never met you. And I give you a loan. Well, what they saw was that, and this was the theory, that because higher rates, because of higher risk, were going to

more minorities, and maybe some non-minorities were getting better rates because they had better credit scores. They were saying, this is a desperate impact. You're a racist in your bank by charging minorities more than you're charging non-minorities. And the banks are going, I'm just looking at numbers here. I don't even know who that is. I've never met these people. Right. I don't even, I don't know who they are. I don't, I don't know what their race is. The race isn't on the document. Only the financial score is on the document. They want the race on the documents now. We'll be right back with much more after this. This NFL season, get in on all the hard-hitting action with FanDuel, North America's number one sportsbook.

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1-866-531-2600 or visit connectsontario.ca You know what? Let me bring this full circle for you, Sean. The Chip and Joanne? Exactly, because we had talked about in this Chip and Joanne story, how after the George Floyd, you know, riots and and all the Black Lives Matter, you know, and all the corporations, you know, jumping on board and, you know, trying to signal I'm not racist and giving money to BLM and all this kind of stuff, you know, Chip and Joanne felt like, you know, as an as a business, they also needed to signal for for their own, you know, reasons. And they implemented. First of all, they gave a big donation to the NAACP in their in their town, I think $100,000. And then they also gave implemented diversity, equity, and inclusion training for all of their employees.

And it might seem harmless at that time, but you see how insidious this kind of stuff is and how that, you know, diversity, equity, inclusion is now Chip's sister is trying to fight against CRT in the schools. It's gotten its way into the schools. It's getting itself into the financial system of our country. And now we're getting these socially engineered housing markets. Once we move away from this colorblind society, I think we were moving towards and almost achieved. And then we took a turn somewhere around Obama where things started becoming more racial. I think things just went off track.

And that's why, you know, go back to that thing that they did with this athlete who has this show, Uncomfortable Conversations with the Black Man. And Chip and Joanne brought their whole family out to do this thing. Chip and Joanne brought their whole family out to do this thing. And, you know, at one point in this conversation, and you can, you know, Google this conversation yourself. She asked this guy, and I'm not going to remember this football player's name. I know he's super famous. It's just I don't know anything about football and sports. But anyway, he's this famous guy, and he has this show. And she says, what's wrong with a colorblind?

What's wrong with raising our kids colorblind? And he goes into this whole explanation of why it's wrong to be colorblind. It's wrong to not look at race, that we need to look at race. And they want to bring us back to this. And you can look at his explanation. I thought it was BS myself. I'm not going to get into it right now, but you can Google it yourself. But I just think that is what is dividing our country.

And so much of what Chip and Joanne talk about is wanting to bring people together. And I agree with that. But I think DEI, CRT, all these things that have kind of been introduced in the last, I don't know, how many years has it been since Barack Obama? 15 years, 12 years? Eight, 15 years. So on diversity, equity, and inclusion. It's hurting the country. Well, we should base our decisions on merit.

Are you qualified for this job? I don't care about your race or your sex or your sexual preference. Actually, I really don't care about that. You can be whatever. I just want the highest performer for this job. Yes. And if that's you, you can get it. Now, I do have an exception, though.

Right? So if you have a company, like when I was in Congress, this is my congressional example. If I have a whole bunch of white men in Congress, right, I've got a diverse group of people that I need to be responsive to. And I'll just tell you from experience. For you, you're talking about your constituents that you represent who voted for you are diverse. They're women and men and yeah.

So when you have just all men, white men, they don't think like women. And men and women think differently. Right. And also, by the way, I also had almost all women once on my staff. And I actually want to balance because I want to have balanced policies and balanced ideas. And if I think I have a great idea for a bill, some of the women on the team might be like, have you really thought through that? Yeah.

Because this is the way it's going to come up. I'm like, huh, really? Good to know that women might not see this the way that I see it. I've had, I had basically every... You probably had one of the most diverse congressional offices. From Hispanic to African American to Asian to gay. And I didn't hire on any of those qualifications. I just hired on the best people.

And that was the montage that I got. And it just happened. I didn't have to have... Although at some point it became more male or became more female. But when your office, and you've said this before to me, when your office was running the best, when it was just humming, it just happened that there was a really diverse set of people. There were, you know, you had women in comms, your chief of staff was gay, your blah, blah,

blah. I mean, it was all kinds of things happening. But they were all high performers. Right. And that's why I go, I don't think you want to have diversity, equity, and inclusion. That is what you're striving for as opposed to striving for merit and excellence. That's a problem for American businesses. Because I think my office, that little microcosm, is very much like a business who's trying to sell things to a wide, diverse public.

If you get away from merit, and then you look at the Chinese who are completely merit-based, and what companies- They're also a highly racist culture. I'm just going to say that. American business, American innovators, American science, or Chinese science innovators, businesses, the ones that actually put a premium on merit are the ones that will thrive and grow and conquer the ones that are focused on just diversity, equity, and inclusion. So this is a bad sign for American economic dominance in the future. Yeah, well, it's interesting because she, you know, Joanna is Joanna is a Korean American and really the the group that is experiencing the most discrimination

because of our now non merit based system are Asians, you know, going into college. I mean, they're they're studying, they're doing all the right things. And there's something culturally happening that happens in in Asian in Asian families that maybe we all should learn from. We can learn from it rather than punishing their children and saying, oh, too many of you are succeeding or getting high grades or getting high marks in the SATs. We got to make sure we keep some of you out so that our numbers look right. And so we're losing a lot of excellence around all fields. I'm really impressed how you brought this all back around. Yeah, no, well, you know, I'm thinking about this a lot

because I think our country is in a lot of trouble. We have gone off the course away from where I think we all, I mean, Martin Luther King is a hero to so many of us. And, you know, he said we want to judge people by their character, we want to judge people by their merits and not by the color of their skin. And, boy, we have gone really far from that. And it is important, culturally important and powerful people like Chip and Joanne who could possibly make a small impact in that direction.

And maybe they still will. I think they're trying. I don't think they are trying. I think they're a family that is trying in some ways, but maybe in other ways hasn't shown the courage that you would hope somebody as fabulously wealthy as they are could do. They will never spend all their money. They can't spend all their money. And so why not take a stand for what

you believe in? And if this is what you believe in, great. Yeah, it could be. Again, I was going to go, I probably don't think that's in their hearts, but I don't know them. We don't know their hearts. You've only been forced to go to their market. And I had breakfast.

Oh yeah, we went to their restaurant too, and it was delicious. It's an overpriced breakfast. But it was delicious. It was good. It was delicious. It was good and overpriced. Well, anyway, great conversation. Yes. Thanks for not totally boring me on the financial stuff. Well, I apologize to everybody.

It gets to be a little... Rachel's starting to gloss over a little bit. I was like, come on, let's just talk about Chip and Joya. How does this relate back to Chip and Joya? That was very well played. Listen, thanks for joining us on our podcast here at The Kitchen Table. If you like our podcast, you can rate, review, subscribe. Please subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

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Bye, everybody. Listen ad-free with a Fox News Podcast Plus subscription, an Apple Podcast, and Amazon Prime members can listen to the show ad-free on the Amazon Music app. I'm Guy Benson. Join me weekdays at 3 p.m. Eastern as we break down the biggest stories of the day with some of the biggest newsmakers and guests.

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