From the Kitchen Table: The Duffys - The FBI Arrests Pro-Life Activist

Episode Date: September 30, 2022

On this episode, Sean and Rachel sit down with attorney Peter Breen, who is representing Mark Houck, a pro-life activist that was arrested by the FBI at his home in Pennsylvania, for an alleged violation of the FACE Act.   Peter breaks down the allegations against his client, the circumstances in which his client was taken into custody by the FBI, and why he believes that Houck's arrest is a calculated move by the Justice Department to intimidate pro-life activists.   (insert link)   Follow Sean and Rachel on Twitter: @SeanDuffyWI & @RCamposDuffy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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BetMGM.com for terms and conditions. Must be 19 years of age or older to wager. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Hey everyone, welcome to From the Kitchen Table. I'm Sean Duffy along with my co-host for the podcast, my partner in life and my wife, Rachel

Campos Duffy. It's so good to be back, Sean, at our kitchen table with all of our listeners. And today we have a story that is just incredible. And you and I have been on it since we heard the news broke. And of course, that is the FBI raiding the home of a pro-life activist, guns blazing, kids there. We're lucky enough that we got the attorney for Mark Houck and his attorney's name is Peter Breen. And we are so grateful to have you on the podcast. Peter, welcome to the kitchen table. Great to be here. Thanks, guys.

Peter, just to let you know up front, we always comment about how we love to have people actually with us together at our kitchen table. But just so you know, both Rachel and I are like so sick right now. You don't want us to hack on you. You are blessed as we are virtual virtual with us we're both so sick and we're we sound a little nasally and that's why but we even though we're sick we had to have you on because we think this is a new you know this is next level stuff uh we were shocked by the mar-a-lago raid we were all this stuff going on

uh but this is next level So why don't you just, if you don't mind, just lay out for us what happened. Okay. And so it starts back in October of 2021, altercation on the sidewalk between Mark Houck and an abortion escort. Now, long-term history, both of them had been out there for years. So these are not people that are unfamiliar. The abortion escort had approached Mark's 12-year-old son who was with him and was harassing him. Mark defended his son.

He's saying. Well, and some of the words, I want to be a little careful about what I can say or not say. It was certainly the sort of thing that you would not want a 72-year-old man coming up to your 12-year-old son and saying while you're there. And some of the words I've heard reported, I can't say on a family radio program. sort of thing, it was well away from the entrance to the abortion facility. There were no patrons of either the abortion facility or the crisis pregnancy center across the street. And so it was a targeted harassment by the alleged victim. So we have said very clearly, whatever happened here, and there was a physical touching, but whatever happened here,

the alleged victim was the aggressor. And so in that case, it is at worst a local matter. And the local DA in Philadelphia, the alleged victim, tried to get the local DA to prosecute. They declined to prosecute. Then he filed a private criminal complaint, which is the only only some states allow that. But that's where a private person can actually initiate a complaint that that case was eventually thrown out of court because the alleged victim did not show up to his hearings. And the D.A., by the way, was a George Soros like aligned D.A. So like Krasner, it's not like you had some pro-life DA helping you out here. Right. So I was in Philadelphia on Tuesday and really meeting the family and talking with everybody.

And I realized that, yeah, this is Krasner, who is one of the big Soros multimillion dollar DAs. So, yeah, no friend of pro-life, certainly. billion DAs. So yeah, no friend of pro-life certainly. And so if he declined, his office declined to prosecute, clearly they're looking at it going, I mean, it's unfortunate. 99.9% of the time outside of the nation's abortion clinics, there's no incidents, but occasionally you'll have a little interaction because folks get into each other's personal space. This happens. If it is a crime, the local folks deal with it. Here, case was thrown out. Certainly under no circumstances was a federal offense,

should it have even been contemplated here. I didn't mean to interrupt you. Just so I understand the facts and kind of where people were. You have you have your client and his son at the at the clinic. They were they were they were they were they chanting there? Were they with signs? Were they yelling at people or were they praying? What were they doing? And and I think that's important. And what did did they approach this alleged victim or did the victim approach them?

Because I think that's really important when you look at the law. What was your client's action? Were they responding to someone approaching them or were they actually approaching someone who was an escort expecting mothers into the clinic? See, and this is the thing. and one of those into the clinic. See, and this is the thing. Our protagonist and his son were standing, praying on the corner well away from the entrance of the,

there's an abortion facility at this particular corner in Philadelphia. There's an abortion facility and across the street, they set up a pregnancy help center. So they were on the corner of the street with the abortion facility, but the abortion facility gates are well down the block. They're standing there. The antagonist, the alleged victim, approaches them, stands next from abortion clinics. You know, the federal law on this is meant to deal with, in the old days, folks would have mass protests. They would have sit-ins in the abortion clinics uh you know and and they took their cue from the civil rights protesters in in the you know 50s yeah so and and and unfortunately uh instead of dealing with that the in a more you know in a different way uh you know the the clinton administration had full control of the congress they were able to pass this act back in 94 uh before the republicans

took over and so they they federalized that action, made it a federal felony. Well, two people on a sidewalk praying. So you've got Mark praying, his son praying next to him. Then the antagonist approaches. At that point, there is nothing about abortion that is involved in this controversy, especially when both Mark and our antagonist have been outside this clinic for years. Philly DA doesn't do anything. Local courts throw it out. And, uh, so we figure that, you know, our client figures, you know, look, we're finished up. Uh, and we, as, as lawyers are going, well, the, you know, the matter's closed. Then a target letter is received.

And so when, when you And so when you have someone under investigation by the federal government, they are supposed to issue a target letter in most circumstances. And so the target letter says, we're looking at Mr. Houck for violations of the Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances Act, called the FACE Act. And the letter itself says, hey, we'd like to speak to your attorney. So on our team, we have incredible senior counsel, Matt Heffron, who was a 15-year federal prosecutor in Arizona. I mean, putting some of the worst people imaginable behind bars. So we got a hardened former federal prosecutor. He responds.

And in the letter that he responds, he says two things. He responds, and in the letter that he responds, he says two things. One, three years ago, just three years ago, Thomas More Society attorneys won a face case on similar facts in the Eastern District of Pennsylvania in 2019. Same sort of thing where there is a physical altercation on the sidewalk between an abortion escort and a pro-life sidewalk counselor, but it's not a face claim. So we said that. Number one, you've got no case here. There's no federal offense here. But number two, if you decide to indict regardless, we will present Mr. Houck in response to a summons, which is a standard way you do it in the federal system. And that was what we offered. The next we hear, and we made phone calls, no response. The next we hear is, we have your client in custody.

Three months later, this past Friday. Unbelievable. And that's when we get to this issue of the raid. It's the sort of thing, it was a little after seven o'clock in the morning, Philadelphia time. And the family is, you're just kind of getting up and there are pounding on the door, like they're going to break the door down, open up, open up the standard stuff. And Mr. Houck opens the door. You have numerous agents with guns pointed at Mr. Houck and into the house. And they take him into custody with his wife looking on. The children are there at the top of the staircase.

And the other reports, and I hate to use the word screaming, but the children were very, very frightened. Of course they were. Of course. And looking out on their lawn. So if you can look out their front door, they live in a more rural area, a couple hours outside of Philadelphia. law enforcement vehicles, agents with riot shields, blast shields, helmets, long guns. I mean, the full compliment that you would send to a drug lord or a mafia don.

Or Hunter's house. I'm sorry, but this is just so crazy. I just can't imagine what it must have been like for the wife, the kids and the dad. I mean, I just, I'm in shock. And I have to tell you, as we, I mean, we've been at this Thomas More Society for about 25 years. We have never, ever had a situation like this where they've sent this kind of force out for one of our clients. And we've defended

face cases under the Obama administration and all of that. And we are now too in other jurisdictions. But it was outrageous. And I have to tell you, I'm so glad that members of Congress have stepped up. But I will say, I've had inquiries from congressional staff going, is there some reason why they sent those folks? Cause they can't believe it themselves. And I'm going, no, no. I mean, you, you've got a, a pillar of the community family man who is a Catholic evangelist. I mean, who he's a very peaceful guy. Like there's, there's no, they're there, you know, everybody's waiting for,

Oh, well we found out some terrible thing. And like, Nope, Nope, not really. No. I mean,

what you see is what you get with, with Mark and, and his, his beautiful wife, Ryan Marie and their, their seven kiddos, just a pillar of the community. We'll have more of this conversation after this.

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and say, that's what we're going to bring in, or allow him to present himself. Which you offered to to do but this idea that because you know you're going to arrest someone that you send the the SWAT team to your point as if you're going to arrest a drug lord this is like one of the cartel members yeah or MS MS 13 you know members I would get that. But I mean, is this, is this standard procedure that the SWAT team goes out to a guy's house to arrest him who has offered to present himself if they're going to charge him? I mean, what's the procedure? Well, you can, I don't want to go too far down the road of it, but you can imagine how that situation could have gone very, very wrong. Very wrong.

Oh, yeah. I mean, for heaven's sakes, it put the Houck family in unnecessary danger. I mean, frankly, if in a different situation, it might have put the agents in danger. in a different situation, it might've put, you know, put the agents in danger. And so, you know, again, I mean, you have an exceptionally peaceful man, so there was no, no risk there. But why would you send this group out? You know, we're still looking for answers. And I know members of Congress have asked that of now of, of the attorney general. In fact, there was just a letter yesterday afternoon, Senator Grassley, very well-respected, sent a detailed letter with some really pointed questions to the Attorney

General. And while obviously under the current administration or the current control of the House and Senate, you may not see action. Boy, if you put Senator Grassley back in the chairmanship or in some position where he can drive an investigation, I would expect to see one. Let's hope so. Let's hope so, because there's been 18 arson vandalism cases since Roe versus Wade that Jane's Revenge, which is this pro-choice group, has actually taken responsibility for. I've never seen any charges against them. I've never seen attacking pro-life centers. Yes.

I've never seen the FBI go after them. We still don't know who the leaker is on the decision at the Supreme Court. So it just seems like so one sided. And obviously they're trying to send a message. Is that the conclusion that your team has come to? This is on purpose to send a message. You're on the wrong side of this administration, which means you're on the wrong side of the law, even though you might not have broken the law. Exactly. So here's what we found out on the day of the indictment. The press was being run out of Washington. So normally these are run out of each district. So wherever the prosecution occurred, the local U.S. Attorney's Office runs it, they run the media.

that leading the case will be a senior trial attorney from the Department of Justice in Washington, D.C. That doesn't happen in a normal case like this. And so what that made clear for us is, and then you look at the number of agents on scene, that could not have been approved or would not have been approved by a local U.S. attorney. That was something that came out of Washington, D.C. And you don't send that kind of response without people pretty high up knowing what's going on, signing off on it. I mean, it may have gotten to the attorney general. We don't know. It certainly would have been at the level of his top lieutenants to do something like this. And so that is where we're looking at it going, you can't draw any other conclusion, but that this raid and the force used was intended to send a message, whether it's to people of faith, pro- sending to just regular folks sitting there enjoying your morning coffee, wondering if you're going to have 28, 20 federal agents banging your door down and dragging you out at gunpoint.

My mom has prayed in front of these kind of clinics so many times. And I just think, could that happen to anybody who goes outside to pray outside of a clinic? I mean, what's happening in America? It's possible. Here's what gets me, Peter. I'm like, OK, you have this altercation outside of an abortion clinic, not by the gates, by three men, abortion activists, the antagonist who's saying horrible things to the defendant's son, which, by the way, way i think any father if their child was being confronted in this vision what i'm happy we're not going to say it here but i've read the reports of what was being said to the 12 year old child right and so the dad steps in and pushes this guy down he falls down i think he fell down the response is the u.s attorney for the united States of America out of Washington, D.C., sends 20 plus federal agents with guns pointed at this guy's head to his home and arrest him and then puts him in shackles. And he has a belly, a belly strap, a belly chain. And this is how he's treated when there was an altercation that didn't affect any woman's right to go into the clinic and have an abortion.

altercation that didn't affect any woman's right to go into the clinic and have an abortion this is what they do to him this is i mean i mean i can use profanity this is insanity it it really i i have to say so the the what was done i mean it yeah absolutely it should shock every american whatever your position on abortion it should shock i mean i hoping that maybe, maybe they overplayed their hands. So they wanted to send out a show of force to show how much they, you know, that they love abortion and what have you, you know, from from the Biden administration. I am hoping that that more civilly civil libertarian minded folks on the left look at this and go, you know, I don't want to live in that country either. So maybe I am hoping that for all of the trauma that they put the Hauk family through, they put Mark through, that maybe a silver lining will come out of this where we get a consensus in this country that we are not going there. Like you crossed a line, get back over to the other side and cut it out.

That is my significant hope that that's your hope but do you really believe that will happen because i believe this was first of all a message to their base to say listen we we're gonna as you said we love abortion and we're gonna make sure that we fight these people um but i think the humiliation the, all of it was so intentional. And I don't I do not think I mean, there really are no more people on the left who are willing to stand up against these kinds of injustices and this kind of, you know, show a force against somebody who's peacefully protesting if it's on the other side. I just I just don't think I've seen, you know, other than, you know, Bill Maher. Yeah. Who's the attorney that we have on Fox sometimes?

Dershowitz. That's about it. I've not seen it. I mean, are you really that hopeful? I mean, are you I know you're saying that, but are you genuinely you genuinely think there are enough liberals out there who still are traditional liberals in the sense that you and I remember the classic liberals who see that this is not right. They're not going to talk about it because of the fear that's been put into people's minds and hearts that they don't they don't speak out now. But I know enough folks and I know people in the FBI and everything else. They don't they don't go in for this. And if we can ensure that there is significant media coverage pushback, and I'll tell you, some of the other media outlets are not covering this. So that's the new tactic on the left is just silence it. Yes.

But, you know. It didn't happen. Right. It didn't happen. Couldn't have happened. You know, it was funny when, when, when Ryan Marie was quoted in one of the early media releases that, you know, that's Mark's wife. She said there were 25 agents and the FBI said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. There were no more than 15 or 20. And you're sitting there going, that's your defense. Really? your defense really yeah i think they're also trying to say that the guns weren't pointing at his head um but you know they were sort of pointed it down i mean they're trying they're trying to backtrack this but it's obvious i think it's a really good point and media attention around this is really important and again if you're the family you you very well may not want to you know be

involved in the media and tell the story but it it is so important to make sure this doesn't happen again that most americans good-minded americans to your point understand that this is happening um and i i hope because when i was in congress i had this idea that you know what i don't want to treat the democrats poorly because at one point i'll be the minority and i don't want them to treat me poorly And that may not have been the purest way to do things. But I'm like, I got to be concerned about how what I do can actually come back to haunt me later on. I think Democrats should look at this, too, to go, hey, if we use law enforcement like

this for political purposes against Republicans, there could be a day the Republicans actually use this against us. And to your point, that's not an America that any of us want to live in. And I'll tell you, you know, I will say I do have reason for hope because during the Obama administration, they tried a similar tactic, although they were using civil face cases filed across the country. And we were able to beat them in a very high profile case in Denver. Another of our colleagues was able to beat them in a high profile case in Florida. And after those two significant losses, they backed down. And for we, that was in about 20, between 2010 and 2012. So second term Obama, we didn't have an issue with this because they,

we had, we beat them in a public way. And so what we are doing for Mark, we have hired the best criminal defense attorney in Philadelphia. He's one of the best in the country, frankly. You know, he's not a cause person like me so i've got my whole thomas moore society team you know we're deploying to to assist but uh but we've hired the best uh and we've set up a website defend life today uh good i wanted you to put that up there say that again for our listeners yeah defendlifetoday.com defendlifetoday.com. Defendlifetoday.com. And that way folks can help us. Because look, this is our way of dealing with this is, I mean, we've got some of the best

players in the country at Thomas More. I'll put our guys up against anybody. Yeah. But to have the finest criminal defense attorney in Philadelphia, you know, the guy that when people have, you know, when the stars get into trouble, like they call him, you know, the guy that when when people have, you know, when that when the stars get into trouble, like they call him, you know, having somebody like that and saying to sending a message, frankly, to the DOJ, we are not going to take this lying down. And, you know, good luck finding someone who is as skilled as our guy in the courtroom in Philadelphia. You know, he speaks the language, which, you know, every town like that has a different dialect,

but he speaks, you know, he speaks Philadelphia. He speaks Philly. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. Yeah, it's a very unique place. And I'm from Chicago, so I know of like, you know, don't send a stranger into Chicago.

Don't send a stranger into Philly. So, you know, that's what we're doing to respond. And so by using, you know, by using our defendlifetoday.com to be able to help fund that strong defense, what I'm hoping is we, as the Congress and others are trying to call the U.S. attorney and the attorney general to account, we can be beating them in the courtroom. There used to be a time when the ACLU did that.

But now we have to have the Thomas More Society and other places defend. You mentioned the contribution. This is like a contribution page that people can go to. This is not a GoFundMe page because I imagine GoFundMe would not allow your page to go up. Well, yeah, you actually, you get a tax deduction for this one. So it's, it's, it's really, yeah. So we're a 501c3. So this is, yeah, it was, it was kind of, it was funny. Folks were saying, well, Thomas More Society, because it's tough to spell because more is with one O, sometimes folks spell it with two, sometimes with one. So I just give them a different name.

And so it goes to a page that we've specially set up on our website that, that will kind of tell you about the case. You can contribute to help, but it'll keep folks updated specifically about this matter. Yeah, I mean, so important for conservatives to fight back. And the Thomas More Society is one of the ways that you can defend

your civil rights, your liberties. And sometimes people don't want to lend their voice or their social media platform, but they can give their dollars to those who are fighting on the front line. Because I think to both your point, Peter and Rachel, this is this is the new battleground. And if we're going to defend America for the next generation, you got to win these kind of fights. So this family must know that they are like I mean, they are on the forefront of probably one of the most important issues, I think, of our time. How are they doing? How are they handling?

How are the kids? Yeah. How are the kids? But also, how are they handling just being at the tip of the spear here on this matter? Because I think all of us have kind of thought this was coming, and now it's here. I'll tell you something uh since since friday and i can only speak for myself and kind of you know the other folks involved pretty much everything you know like i've been traveling around we've been doing a lot of work there were a

lot of places where things could have gone sideways or just even little stuff could have gone wrong and everything has fallen into place just right so So I think they are very faith-filled people. And I think the good Lord is smiling on them right now for the suffering that they are undergoing. They have got seven kids from 13 down to two. So they are right in the thick of it with the little guys. They have us beat, Peter. That's impressive. Seven from 13 down to two.

Wow. It's a tight. That's a that's a pretty, pretty quick succession there. Yeah. Yeah. Right. All in a row. And the way Ryan Marie puts it is the older kids are able to process. So imagine you are watching your father, the head of your family being taken out of your home in handcuffs by your entire front lawn covered with agents, guns, the whole nine yards.

The older ones are able to process to some extent, you know, we're getting counseling, they're getting counseling and going to do more of it. The younger ones, it's a problem. And I've got a four and a six year old. I can't even imagine how you would know and to explain it to them um so that is uh that's that's the situation they're facing right now and that i mean look i gotta tell you i i we're talking you know now with with some really high-powered senators and congressmen getting on this i'm i'm i'm heartened i would love a day where congress brings the attorney general in front of

it and then ask the Houck family to come so that he can personally apologize to them for the harm that he and his administration and his Department of Justice have done to them. Wait right there. We're going to have more of that conversation next. This episode is brought to you by Miller Lite. Miller Lite's all about celebrating friendships, especially during fantasy football season. And there's no better way to show your friends slash fantasy league's last place finisher that you love them than Miller Lite's last placements, where you can get their face on a billboard. Yep, a real billboard. Just go to lastplacements.com to find out how. Miller Lite. Tastes like Miller time.

Is it weird that he has said, Merrick Garland has said nothing since this has happened? I mean, is that what you expected, or should he have come out? You know what? DOJ Media has been very aggressive out of Washington. So, you know, the idea that the FBI

or DOJ found it important enough to correct 25 down to, well, 15 to 20. I mean, that is nitpicking of the level the federal government usually does not do. And so they are, I would imagine, you know, the media shop is certainly on high alert. And look, you know, this is the sort of thing, you know, the attorney general has now been asked by a couple of different sets of members of Congress to answer. And he's getting real particular questions that if I were him,

I would not want to get. And oh, by the way, this was an interesting thing. Senator Grassley's letter yesterday with 10 or so senators along with him, it mentioned very specifically that the AG had put in place a force reduction policy. I'm not totally familiar with it and I haven't had time to research it, but apparently where they were trying to deescalate. You know, this is the theme of the left was, well, we want to deescalate these law enforcement situations. And so this raid actually appears to violate the policy he just put into place a few months ago.

If that's de-escalation, I don't know what de-escalation is. De-escalation for one ideology and then escalation if you're run amok from the regime's point of view. I think it's fascinating what's going on. Again, just really quickly wrap up for us why this should matter to all of our listeners. And maybe they go, I don't pray in front of abortion clinics or I don't.

Just give us your summation of why this matters to everyday Americans, particularly if you're a conservative, and then tell us how they can help. Sure. And the way we do it, the way I look at it in these cases is pick the issue you care the most about that you are willing to go out and stand on a sidewalk or give money or what have you, and then insert that in the place of, say, abortion or pro-life. is it that that if if your issue you know folks might you know you would be subject to some sort of law enforcement action for your stand on again whatever issue you

care the most about i mean everything from animal rights to ukraine to anything else well if the federal government or state government can come after you because of your witness on that particular issue your donations we saw just like the canadian truckers what have you yeah and send 20 agents or 25 however whatever the actual number was to your door with heavily armed and drag you out and then then what we have to go and you know we've had to do a lot of work to you know come around mark and his family so that is the sort of thing. It touches every American that once these lines get crossed, you have to, you either, it's hard to uncross them. And so what we have to do is make a very vigorous, heavy public showing.

This is not right. We're not going to take this. So that the federal government and the folks inside it do kind of the same thing they did in the Obama administration. When we faced a similar issue with this act, back off. And so we have to make them back off. In politics, nothing moves unless pushed. And so we are pushing back strongly in court through our legal efforts. The politicians, I'm loving what they're doing too. It's very helpful. And so that's why we, again, this defendlifetoday.com is really the way most folks can get involved because you can't be in the courtroom with us. But you can certainly be supporting.

And please do, if you are the type that prays, go ahead and please pray for the Houck family. I'd be glad to get prayers, too, even though I'm a lawyer. We'll be praying for you. We appreciate it. Yeah, because everything's working so far. glad to get prayers too even though i'm a lawyer um you know we'll be praying for us we appreciate it yeah because everything's working so far uh you know and and i think i love i love your optimism i mean you talk about these letters that they're sending and they're so good and i have to tell you and sean maybe feels differently than i do but i just i'm so sick of the letters i feel like it's like the letters get written and they don't respond to them.

And like Merrick Garland has, I know they're supposed to do them. I know that there's a process, but, and I maybe we just have to wait until midterms. They can't do it. They can't do it. I know, but it's so frustrating. It's so out of control. Like I can't believe that the world's not on fire with this. Like, I think this is so, this is the most important thing because

just think Peter, they started with calling parents who were opposed to CRT and, and, and transgender ideology and drag shows in their kids' schools. They called them domestic terrorists and everything has just kept escalating and escalates like this slow boil. And here we are, this is something I never thought would happen in America. Yeah. I mean, can you imagine this? You just mentioned it. Altercation at a school board, and all of a sudden you get 20 federal agents outside your house dragging you away to charge you with something that is not a federal crime. Which means people won't go to school board meetings. And then they want people to not go and pray or protest in front of abortion clades. They're trying to scare us.

You know what? I'll say this. I do fully, as a former politician myself, the letters, you send a lot of letters and they don't necessarily mean anything. In this particular case, I'm reading these letters and they are they are well crafted and they are particular that. Yes, this these actually, I think, are landing with some some force behind them in a way that the normal letter might not. Well, Peter, I agree with you, not not because the letter does anything, but lets Merrick Garland know that, hey, listen, letter does anything, but lets Merrick Garland know that, hey, listen, there's a midterm set of elections coming in the first week of November, November 8th. And by the way, when we take power, you're one of the first guys we're calling in and we are going to hold you to account.

That's the kind of force that's behind those letters. And that will happen both in the House and in the Senate. And to your point, well-crafted letters mean there's a lot of thought going into this, Peter, and how they're going to go after Merrick Garland for his abuse of power. And I think that's important because sometimes I was in Congress. You can kind of slap some letters together and send them out. It appears that this is not what was done. What happens even when he gets into the hearing? When he gets into the hearing and we see them being grilled, then what happens? Because it goes back to an original point that peter was talking about the left the media on the left is

not covering this they want to hide it they want to they want to put us in fear they don't want to actually talk about the story and the job here is to make sure everyone knows what what the joe biden doj under merrick garland is doing to americans to pro-lifers, to speech, to freedom, to parents, to Peter Navarro, to Donald Trump. We have to talk about it. And it's all facets. It's what I think what you're doing, Peter, with the Houck family and the lawsuit. It's what members of Congress are doing. It's podcasts and TV networks. But then it's also those hearings are going to be important because it's hard for the left and the media to ignore those hearings and what actually happened. And that's when people

become enraged by, by again, a dad of seven kids, Peter, I mean, guns pointed at his head with 15 or 20 agents, 15 cars. I mean, I think most Americans are like, what the, what is going on? And I think that's the powers. This story is a powerful story and we're grateful, Peter, that you're telling it, that you're part of the team, that you're given your God-given resources and skills to help the family out. We're grateful for that. I'm honored you guys wanted to bring me on to do a long form to really explain this to folks. This is the first one we've done.

So first long form, real interview directly about the situation. So great to be on, uh, you guys podcast, which my wife loves. I listened to it as much as I can, but she listens much more religiously than I do. We, we, we, we appreciate that. And when we get better and that work, cause we're not that far away from, uh, the, the, the failure, we'll have to have our actual cup of coffee. Well, are you in Chicago? In Chicago? Yeah, I'm in Chicago.

In Chicago. Our daughter went to the University of Chicago. We tried to get her out quickly. It was devolving there. But that's maybe a different podcast. Can I just say before we go? Before we go, because this is something I want to bring up. On the same weekend that this happened, there was amazing footage coming out

of philadelphia of you know tons of kids young people storming a what do they call it a wah-wah and and stealing and so there this is a city that has real crime and this is what real problems and this is what they're going after and this is what the doj is focused on when we have, you know, terrorists coming across the border and everything else. I think that this is an amazing story. We hope we're bringing shining a little bit of light on this and helping people realize, I think this might be the most important story right now in America. It is. So listen, Peter, thank you for joining us. Thanks for your good work. Stay safe in Chicago, too. It's a dangerous place as well. I know. Well, yeah, that's that's another podcast. And when the time comes, just go a little further

to the north and spend a lot of that hard earned cash up in Wisconsin to help our economy out. We always appreciate that, man. I love the beer, brats and cheese. Yes, there we go. A man after my own heart. Well, Peter, thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate you being at our kitchen table. And again, thank you for your good work. And hello to your family and to your wife. Absolutely. One last time, tell our listeners how they can help out.

Right. Defendlifetoday.com. You can get updates and then help out if you can. Awesome. Thank you. Can't think of a better cause. Thank you so much. And if you like this podcast, you can rate review subscribe uh to from the kitchen table wherever you get your podcast um and give

us that great rating um we appreciate you joining us uh for the second day in a row and usually this was just our our day to go kind of ourselves back and forth on a topic we pick but when i called i was at dinner last night i called peter um and he took my phone call and said, yep, I'll come on tomorrow and do the podcast. And we're grateful to Peter for his effort. All right. You guys have a good one. Bye, everybody. Bye.

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